Blasted thing won't start...

[SG1 Bones]

G'day all,

I know it's a bit of rookie question but, I can't get my SIII 109 started I think it's got the 202 in it, I'm still trying to find them numbers. :wacko:

I did give it a quick degrease and wash in the footwells and chassis to clean it up a bit and I've been playing with the dash to fix that up, but before all that it was running next to perfect. I've got a fully charged battery, tried jump starting as well to make sure it wasn't the battery.

The ignition just has a single click when I try to turn it over and that's it. I just would like some ideas where I should tackle first so I'm not pulling a working part to bits only to find it wasn't the problem.

All your assistance is very gratefully appreciated.

Thanks
Nathan.

[gromit]

Sounds like the starter has possibly stuck, the click being the starter relay.
Put the lights on and try turning it over, if the lights dim then the starter has possibly jammed.
If the lights don't dim then check the connections to the solenoid & starter plus the earth to the engine.

If the starter is jammed it might need removing to investigate although a thump on the starter body sometimes fixes things temporarily.


Colin

[Blknight.aus]

if its not winding over then its the start relay or the starter motor.

check for voltage on te back of the start relay and on the startermotor while someone keys it over.

[Homestar]

Just to clarify - it only cranks for a second then stops cranking or it is cranking ok but not firing? If it is the latter have you checked for a spark? Take an HT lead off a spark plug, stick a screwdriver in the end of it, place it so the driver is close - but not touching the block or any earthed surface then crank the engine to see if you get a spark.

If it's the former then the starter solenoid or the crank circuit could have an issue. Take a wire and connect it straight to the starter solenoid terminal then touch it on the positive of the battery to see if it cranks. If it does, then there's an issue somewhere before the starter, if it doesn't then there's an issue with the starter - either the solenoid or the actual motor.

[harry]

hi nathan,
it sounds like you may have wet something or done something when playing with the wiring..
if it just goes click when you turn the key, it usually would be a flat battery, but it may be lots of other things,
check the starter relay to see if the terminals are secure, battery for tight connections.
perhaps to find if the problem is between the key and the starter, use the positive jumper lead.
put your positive jumper lead from your battery directly on to the starter terminal and then connect the other end to your battery positive.
if the starter cranks the engine you will need to disconnect at the battery quickly, but if the ign is on the engine should start, or try to.


at least if it try's to go, you can then chase the problem between the starter and the key.
and what they said also.

[crackers]

And one old time remedy that hasn't been touched on.
Some older starters had a square end to the main shaft sticking out the back of them. Simply putting a spanner on that and giving it a turn may either free it up or tell you it wasn't stuck in the first place. Doesn't work if you don't have the square end of course.
Giving it a whack with a heavy spanner works (remember Clive Palmer under the bonnet of his Rolls when he took it to Parliament for the first time? Stuck starter and he was using a length of wood and a hammer to jolt it free).

Failing that, you're chasing the lost smoke I'm afraid ('lectricy is smoke, don't let the physicists fool you).

[SG1 Bones]

Thanks everyone for those pointers I shall investigate the starter first I think and go from there if I find the problem I'll let you know.

Once again thanks.
Nathan.

[LandyAndy]

Brushes in the starter motor could be cactus.Try rocking it in gear with the ignition off to line the brushes up with a better bit of the armature on the starter motor,then try starting as normal.
GOODLUCK
Andrew

[mick88]

G'day all,

I know it's a bit of rookie question but, I can't get my SIII 109 started I think it's got the 202 in it, I'm still trying to find them numbers. :wacko:

I did give it a quick degrease and wash in the footwells and chassis to clean it up a bit and I've been playing with the dash to fix that up, but before all that it was running next to perfect. I've got a fully charged battery, tried jump starting as well to make sure it wasn't the battery.

The ignition just has a single click when I try to turn it over and that's it. I just would like some ideas where I should tackle first so I'm not pulling a working part to bits only to find it wasn't the problem.

All your assistance is very gratefully appreciated.

Thanks
Nathan.





Hi Nathan,
hope you got the old girl running!
As for identifying your engine, it should have either "202" (early red motor) or "3.3" (later blue motor) cast into the front left side of the block down behind the alternator.
Otherwise put your engine number up on here and I will follow it up for you. The engine number is stamped into the front right hand side of the block, on a flat machined area,
just around the corner from the water pump.
Hope this helps.
Good luck and cheers for now.
Mick.

[SG1 Bones]

Thanks mick88, I finally found those numbers. It is definitely a 202 and I found the engine number ZL11098. I googled some information on it and am I right in thinking that the 202 was from an HZ Holden? If that's the case I'd like to know what happened to the car because my SIII is a 1977 model which is when the HZ first came out and they ceased in 1980, so the engine would have been still quite green when it was dumped into my SIII.

By the way I tried hitting the starter motor but it still didn't kick over, but on the first try of turning it over the click was followed by a sound that sounded like a spring relaxing (if that makes sense). 😡

Would clutch starting work? I am thinking along those lines because of one of the ideas mentioned above. My only concern is that with living on a hill is that if I don't get it started I'll have to try to drag it back up again.

I've been thinking about what would have been the original engine wether a 4cyl or a 6cyl. What would be the main things to see to confirm its original heart?

Thank you all so much for your assistance.
Nathan.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

[Blknight.aus]

first of bar the engine over using the fan or a ratchet on the alternator, make sure it actually turns over..

if it turns over then yes clutch starting should work unless you hae other electrical issues

[mick88]

Thanks mick88, I finally found those numbers. It is definitely a 202 and I found the engine number ZL11098. I googled some information on it and am I right in thinking that the 202 was from an HZ Holden? If that's the case I'd like to know what happened to the car because my SIII is a 1977 model which is when the HZ first came out and they ceased in 1980, so the engine would have been still quite green when it was dumped into my SIII.

By the way I tried hitting the starter motor but it still didn't kick over, but on the first try of turning it over the click was followed by a sound that sounded like a spring relaxing (if that makes sense). 😡

Would clutch starting work? I am thinking along those lines because of one of the ideas mentioned above. My only concern is that with living on a hill is that if I don't get it started I'll have to try to drag it back up again.

I've been thinking about what would have been the original engine wether a 4cyl or a 6cyl. What would be the main things to see to confirm its original heart?

Thank you all so much for your assistance.
Nathan.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.





Hi Nathan,
your vehicle may have run on the original motor for many years before it had the Holden transplant.
Looks like the ZL prefix engine was for a 202 in a late HZ.
Holden Engine Numbers ID Guide (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/holden_6_cylinder_engine_numbers.htm)


What is your vehicle's chassis number?
Post it up on here and we can find out if was originally a six or four cylinder motor. Alternatively check to see if the front cross member has been cut modified to move the radiator forward or take a pic of the bulkhead inside the vehicle around the transmission tunnel and post it on here. The bulkhead is different on the six as opposed to the four.


Cheers, Mick.

[SG1 Bones]

Hi Nathan,
your vehicle may have run on the original motor for many years before it had the Holden transplant.
Looks like the ZL prefix engine was for a 202 in a late HZ.
Holden Engine Numbers ID Guide (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/holden_6_cylinder_engine_numbers.htm)


What is your vehicle's chassis number?
Post it up on here and we can find out if was originally a six or four cylinder motor. Alternatively check to see if the front cross member has been cut modified to move the radiator forward or take a pic of the bulkhead inside the vehicle around the transmission tunnel and post it on here. The bulkhead is different on the six as opposed to the four.


Cheers, Mick.


G'day Mick88,

I realize that it may have been many years later but it makes me wonder when the transplant happened. I find it odd that the age of the vehicle and engine are very close in age.

The chassis is 94301841C. From the difference I see with the interior compared to a S2a I am thinking it was a 6cyl. originally. I can't find any mods to the front crossmember either. It just excites me to think of what past life it may have had.

Thanks for your continued assistance.
Nathan.

[bee utey]

I suspect that the original engine wore out at a time when HZ engines became common at wrecking yards. It's also useful to fit a replacement engine that meets emission regs for the year of manufacture of the original engine. Therefore you are best off not fitting an earlier one.





G'day Mick88,

I realize that it may have been many years later but it makes me wonder when the transplant happened. I find it odd that the age of the vehicle and engine are very close in age.

[mick88]

CALVIN shows it as:
Series 3 1972-1979 109 six cylinder
Body: basic
CKD: Completely Knocked Down.
C: denotes two significant design modifications.


Clifton Scientific Text Services, the Netherlands (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?calvin.html)


I am not sure what "C" mods would be.
Others will be able to explain the modifications.

[SG1 Bones]

Thanks mick88, I haven't noticed anything significantly different as a modification. Would it being fitted with a tin top be counted? It would be interesting to know would be the modifications.

Nathan.

[SG1 Bones]

I finally had an opportunity to try clutch starting the old girl and with a bit of a cough she started superbly. I think now it's definitely the starter, when I parked her bs turned her off I tried to start her again and she didn't want to.

Can anyone recommend wether I should go to the wreckers and get a second hand starter or should I buy new? What about a rebuild?

Thanks
Nathan.

[crackers]

I'm guessing it's the old Holden starter, in which case, it should be rebuildable. I'm in no way suggesting you should go that route, but I'd at least drop into an auto electrician and get a price on the job, if nothing else, it'll give you a figure to judge against new prices.

Second hand? Go that route when you find out what new or rebuild costs. My thinking there is that a vehicle that's hard to start will always be a pain in the rear cushioning and second hand is always a bit of a lottery - a good option if new or rebuilds are expensive, not if you can afford new.

Just random thoughts mate. ;)

[Homestar]

Brand new starters are under $100 on fleabay, but who knows what quality they are. For that price though, it may pay t o find out.

[SG1 Bones]

Second hand? Go that route when you find out what new or rebuild costs. My thinking there is that a vehicle that's hard to start will always be a pain in the rear cushioning and second hand is always a bit of a lottery...



That's what I was thinking with the second hand ones. Bit of a hit and miss.
That's the frustrating thing it used to be great turning over and driving, it just decided one day to have a long sleep.

I will try eBay and see how it turns out.

Thanks
Nathan.

[Aaron IIA]

It may just need new brushes. They are quite cheap and easy to replace. Pull it apart and have a look.

Aaron

[marting]

Hi Nathan


If you are looking to get it rebuilt try Virginia Auto Electrics, 15 Matheson Street, Virginia. Not too far from you.
He does good work, and specialises in the older stuff.


Martin

[SG1 Bones]

Thanks Martin I think I know who your talking about.
Nathan.