Molasses Bath Trick

[LR1953]

Hello All, My 1953 80" had a perfect fuel tank until a couple of years ago when I left it unused for a while with E10 ethanol blend in the tank. Now it is all very rusty. Would filling it with molasses be a way to deal with it? Anyone prepared to advise concentration/time, etc? Any help would be appreciated.
Many thanks, Rob S

[Lotz-A-Landies]

There are concentration advice between 4:1 water:molasses to 10:1 the more concentrated the quicker it works (keep the water warm for best results).

Be aware that if you molasses a fuel tank you'll remove the tin/gal coating so will have a tank that will rust above the fuel level.

You could put a tank sealer on the inside immediately you remove the molasses solution.

I'm thinking that I'd even avoid a water rinse and possibly use metho, GP thinners or prepsol to rinse out the molasses, so the water doesn't encourage rusting.

[p38arover]

Yes, I've done fuel tanks and other rusty stuff like this.

See my webpage: Getting Rid of Rust (http://p38arover.com/rover/rust.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/889.jpg[/URL]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/890.jpg[URL="http://members.optusnet.com.au/thebecketts/rover/pix/tank2.jpg"] (http://members.optusnet.com.au/thebecketts/rover/pix/auxtnk2l.jpg)

The reason for the half shiny/half rusty look is that I'd just taken it out of the molasses derusting bath where only half was submerged (the now shiny bit). The tank bolted sideways to the chassis - you can see the brackets. The tank is sitting on the lower surface that you can see under the car in the first photo (if that makes sense).

Here is a battery tray I did. In thesecond pic, that rust look is because it is so clean it started to rust after I hosed it off.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/891.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/892.jpg

[LR1953]

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate the need to reseal the tank to prevent it rusting again, any suggestions there? I've heard stories of the "off label" use of a 3M/Scotch brand contact adhesive (? 776) which I've used to coat engine bolts when reassembling a Rover V8 engine. Something with lower viscosity would be better, though. Thanks again, Rob S

[p38arover]

POR15

POR-15 Fuel Tank Repair Kit (http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit_p_62.html)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Inside the tank POR15 as Ron suggested.

If you dip whole tank in a bath, the outside can be prepared and painted like any bare steel items. There are other POR15 products you can use for that also, but the POR15 chassis paint is not UV stabilised so will grey over time unless over coated with a UV stable paint.

[gromit]

There is also Redkote Fuel Tank and Radiator Service - Red-Kote? - Fuel Tank Liner (http://www.ftrs.com.au/redkote/red_kote.php)
Easy to install and can also be removed using acetone.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/159944-1956-series-1-pto-welder-home-made-4.html#post1780804

I have a POR tank liner kit but didn't end up using it. One of the downfalls is once you open the tin the product will go off whereas with Redkote excess can be drained off for use in another tank.


Colin

[cafe latte]

Molasses does nothing to rust ( I tested it) the only way molasses can remove rust is if the molasses has urea in it.
Chris

[gromit]

Molasses does nothing to rust ( I tested it) the only way molasses can remove rust is if the molasses has urea in it.
Chris

But it's de-rusted everything I've put into it ?
So are you suggesting that the molasses we purchase for horse feed has urea in it ?


Colin

[p38arover]

Molasses does nothing to rust ( I tested it) the only way molasses can remove rust is if the molasses has urea in it.
Chris

So the stuff I've been using for 25 years doesn't work? :angel:

[cafe latte]

No it cant unless it has urea in it. My friend heard the same that molasses removes rust, he had a rusty rad top of an old dozer, and we have a farm and have molasses delivered. We put the rad top in it for about a week and it did nothing to the rust. Next we tried watering it down, nothing. Next instead of submerging it we tried painting it on again no effect. He also put a rusty hammer and some siezed rusty pliers in the bucket with the molasses it had no effect on them either. I was not surprised as we have metal molasses troughs and they are flaky rusty, no difference outside or inside. The ones for the bulls are used constantly if molasses removed rust they would be shiny by now. We dont get molasses with urea in it as we use licks separate. Horses cant tolerate urea so if your molasses is removing rust I would find another supplier.
Chris

[cafe latte]

So the stuff I've been using for 25 years doesn't work? :angel:

All I am saying is straight molasses does not remove rust, molasses with something else in it might. I have three huge mild steel tanks I use for molasses and inside they are big time rusty, thick flakes. Fortunately they are very thick tanks so hopefully it will take years for them to rust out. If molasses had any effect on rust at all when I get it delivered and the guy over filled the tanks and it spilled all over the sides of the tank the tank would be shiny, so would my troughs.
Chris

[cafe latte]

I had a quick google and it seems a lot of people have removed rust with molasses, but it for sure did not work for me at all. I am away for a couple of weeks at a shooting comp (I am leaving very soon) so I cant do it now but I am happy to try an experiment again when I get back. My straight molasses and a bucket of molasses a a rusty item for a couple of weeks.
Chris

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Your problem may be the straight molasses.

I have never seen a recipe for using straight molasses the highest concentration was 4:1 and it may be the solvent nature of water that activates the molasses. The soup certainly gets bubbling with high concentration molasses soup relatively soon after a rusty metal item gets dipped.

Using a caustic or acid bath does work faster but also eats the good metal.

Molases eats white metals: lead, zinc, aluminium.

[gromit]

A new word for the vocabulary......chelation

Rust removal by chelation (http://jbosh1972.hubpages.com/hub/Rust-removal-by-chelation)

Molasses works fine for me and I've also used vinegar. Just about to try electrolytic removal.
I usually use phosphoric acid as soon as I dry the part to stop rusting (available in Supercheap, Bunnings etc.).

Why does molasses remove rust (http://www.answers.com/Q/Why_does_molasses_remove_rust)

No mention of urea......


Colin

[loanrangie]

My dad has been using diluted molasses for cleaning vintage car parts for over 40 years so i know it does work, there is nothing special about the molasses they he sources from a local feed stock supplier.

[cafe latte]

A new word for the vocabulary......chelation

Rust removal by chelation (http://jbosh1972.hubpages.com/hub/Rust-removal-by-chelation)

Molasses works fine for me and I've also used vinegar. Just about to try electrolytic removal.
I usually use phosphoric acid as soon as I dry the part to stop rusting (available in Supercheap, Bunnings etc.).

Why does molasses remove rust (http://www.answers.com/Q/Why_does_molasses_remove_rust)

No mention of urea......


Colin

I am aware what chelation is, actually despite owning a farm I am a biologist so studied a bit of all the sciences at uni.We did try mixing with water though and got no sucess at all even after a week, this was after a week in undiluted. I am willing to try again when I get home, but last time it made not the slightest difference to the rust.
Chris

[Toxic_Avenger]

A new word for the vocabulary......chelation

Rust removal by chelation (http://jbosh1972.hubpages.com/hub/Rust-removal-by-chelation)

Colin

Wow, new word for the vocab indeed, but I can't get over how bad the author's spelling is! -10 credibility points.

But you well and truly made up for it with the second link. Reminds me how much inorganic chemistry I forgot. It does make specific mention of molasses derived from sugar beets (mainly for animal feed) and sugar cane derived molasses. The difference being the sucrose content of each, with sugar beet molasses having virtually no glucose content, which seems (by this article at least) to be the main driver for Iron 3 to Iron 2 reduction.

Without researching all the stuff I've forgotten in the past, seems like we might have a clue as to why Mr Latte's molasses sucked.

[cafe latte]

Ok so basically if it is sugar cane based it is useless, if it is from beet it will work..
I am not going nuts then. I had to study a lot of chemistry but I was happy to eject as much as possible from my brain 10 mins after the exam :D
I will be happy to do an experiment when I get home, but as I said it did nothing to rust before, actually I am happy to have a reason why..
Chris

[Toxic_Avenger]

Ok so basically if it is sugar cane based it is useless, if it is from beet it will work..
I am not going nuts then. I had to study a lot of chemistry but I was happy to eject as much as possible from my brain 10 mins after the exam :D
I will be happy to do an experiment when I get home, but as I said it did nothing to rust before, actually I am happy to have a reason why..
Chris

Other way around I think.
Glucose is the reducing agent. Hence molasses from a sugar cane source is better than that from sugar beet. Molasses sourced from the latter is generally unpalatable for humans, hence used in animal feed. The good stuff goes into such things as rum!
"2) Molasses contains a significant amount of glucose, which is a reducing sugar that can reduce iron(III) to iron(II), giving the iron a greater propensity toward water solubility. On the average, only about 67% of sugar in sugarcane is sucrose. Virtually all the sugar in sugar beets is sucrose."

[SG1 Bones]

I started using molasses just over a week ago and had no success until I saw Lotz-a-Landys post the fact that the mix needed to remain warm. So a couple days ago I put it out in the sun, and I've now had more success in the last two days than the week prior. I'm sorry I forgot to take before photos so I won't be able to show the difference, I will take some on the next piece to be done.
I don't know if this helps but it helped me.

Nathan.

[LandyAndy]

I have a 200lt drum with mole ass mixture.Its 10 years old,and I dont use it.
Want to dispose of it,anybody know if its beneficial to the vegi garden.
NO,none of my stuff has rust on it!!!!
Andrew

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Who was it on here who set up a solar heater using black poly pipe and just let the thermals circulate the soup? Its a great idea and all it costs is a couple or four poly pipe fittings.

[gromit]

My molasses drum is out in the cold and it works OK.

I do have a problem with a thick skin forming on it, every now & then I have to fish out the skin & throw it away.

I've read that it's perfectly OK to tip out onto the garden/grass, that's what I did with an earlier batch with no detrimental results.


Colin