King Springs v's Lovells?

[Ace]

Hi I thought i would start a new topic to ask anyones opinions on King Springs and Lovells, who has used them and which do you think are the better choice. I can get the king springs (2in lift) for $165 a pair and the Lovells for $220 a pair, is this a fair price, if anyone can direct me to a cheaper source please do so. I plan to use bilsteins as the shocks. Matt

[landy_man]

as mentioned in other posts... In MY OPINION, both these brands of springs are no good for your articulation... If you look at their websites they have 1 or 2 sets available to give a 2" lift.... Now, I am damn sure they give you this lift by increaing the spring rate which results in a nice firm ride onroad, but offroad they do not flex nicely and can be quite tippy...

I had Kings fitted to my Defender and they were WAY to stiff...
In my opinion, Rangie Spares springs are the ONLY way to go... he has HEAPS of different free lengths and rates available depending on what you want to achieve with your Rover... Not just a 1 size suits all kind of setup...

He will advise on an appropriate rate and free length for your intended purpose and ONLY makes springs for Rovers...
Support the blokes that support Rovers...

I have no financial gain to be made from Rangie Spares.. just found Andrew to be very helpful when it came spring time on my Rangie.. He will also swap springs for you if you are not 100% satisfied with the springs he recommends

Give him a call or look at his site... www.lrautomotive.com.au

[incisor]

Originally posted by landy_man
Support the blokes that support Rovers...

here here

sometimes people need the vision to see past the end of their wallet..

we dont support the guys that go the extra mile then they wont be around when you really need them.

[Ace]

Ok, i spoke to them, but i am looking at all my options. I would like to be able to see past the end of my wallet, but my limit is my limit i am afraid. Matt

[wardy1]

I've heard great reports from Brown's springs in Melb. Going there next week to discus the options for my disco11. Will let you know costs etc but I'm under the impression that around $130 a pair is the norm there
Alan

[landy_man]

options... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif
you are joking right...
the only options you have with King Springs are... Standard height, lowered height and raised height...
and Lovells has standard, standard h/d, raised and raised h/d... with standard h/d and raised being the same spring...

Rangie Spares has over 13 different springs for Rovers
Now that is "options"...

[landy_man]

Originally posted by wardy!
I've heard great reports from Brown's springs in Melb. Going there next week to discus the options for my disco11. Will let you know costs etc but I'm under the impression that around $130 a pair is the norm there
Alan

I believe Browns Springs make the springs for Rangie Spares... so the quality is there but you need to know exactly what you want... i.e. free length, rate, number of coils... and they are about $20 more expensive with no returns if you are not happy...

[Gidget]

Am not sure about you, but I have just ordered 4" raised springs from lovells for the disco2 & they were helpfull. I did just order a set that was designed for slunnie from the o/l forum, but when I spoke to the bloke from lovells he asked what accesories I was running to try to determine spring rates. He was great & couldn't recomend them enough, how they actually go when they turn up & I install them is yet to be seen.I am having tough dog custom make some big bore adjustable shocks for me ,so hopefully I will be able to dial a bit out of the valving to suit my needs.

[Ace]

Originally posted by landy_man
options... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif
you are joking right...
the only options you have with King Springs are... Standard height, lowered height and raised height...
and Lovells has standard, standard h/d, raised and raised h/d... with standard h/d and raised being the same spring...

Rangie Spares has over 13 different springs for Rovers
Now that is "options"...

I meant options in terms of brands, not everyone is a millionare mate!

[shaunp]

I actually find that Discos ride better with Kings then OE . I think because they don't up rate as quick due to a higher intial rate, can't comment on Lovells, I used them in my SLR 5000 in the 80's but thats that. The front also looses the that crashy bump stop feel. I reckon they offer good value for money for most people, sure there are better but not at $130 a pair. I really can't justify paying the extra money when the car does what I ask now. Kings have 3 height rears standard (which lifts them a bit) raised and raise EHD.

[Ace]

Originally posted by shaunp
I actually find that Discos ride better with Kings then OE. I think because they don't up rate as quick due to a higher intial rate. The front also looses the that crashy bump stop feel. I reckon they offer good value for money for most people, sure there are better but not at $130 a pair. I really can't justify paying the extra money when the car does what I ask now.

Thanks again Shaun, i am with you, i am shopping around to see what is available (in terms of brands and products) i did talk to Andrew from Rangie Spares and he was most helpful, and i havent discounted them yet, but i have a budget, which i have to adhere to because i cant really go much higher than that, i have heard good things about both lovells and king springs so i am considering them, and at $130/pair they are good value. Matt

[landy_man]

Springs are a very small expense in the general scheme of things and the reason your Rover is so good offroad is because the suspension is soft and supple...
If you want to retain that feel, spend a little extra and deal with a Land Rover specialist...
Millionaire my ass... but suspension is what makes or breaks a good 4 wheel drive...
Skimping on a few $$ to sacrifice ride quality, handling and articulation just does not make sense..

[one_iota]

I've not been stopped with my choice: Kings and Bils.

Every decision involves a compromise.

When the Kings wear out I'll think about it again.

Series 2 Discos are a different beast to spring. I have a mate who has had dramas getting his sorted.

[Ace]

Originally posted by landy_man
Springs are a very small expense in the general scheme of things and the reason your Rover is so good offroad is because the suspension is soft and supple...
If you want to retain that feel, spend a little extra and deal with a Land Rover specialist...
Millionaire my ass... but suspension is what makes or breaks a good 4 wheel drive...
Skimping on a few $$ to sacrifice ride quality, handling and articulation just does not make sense..

Noone is skimping mate, I can afford what i can afford, i wont skimp i will buy what my budget will allow. I value your advice but dont treat me like an idiot. Plenty of people buy king springs and lovells so there must be something good about them. Matt

[shaunp]

What ever springs you decide to fitt, you won't be sorry if you put a set of Billys in it, I like to fit these or Konis to Disco's. If you're short of a quid don't opt for Munro's they chop out really quickly, I put a set in Brad's TDI (only cause he got them from his mate that was a rep for Coventry's really cheap) They were stuffed after 10 week return trip from Brisbane to the Kimberly, springs were ok however. Go for Boges if you are short they are are about $80 each. Cost price for kings this time last year was just less than $100 a pair + frieght. Last lot I got at Coventry's were $124 for fronts and $137 for rear trade. But that's in Brisbane and the factory is at the Gold coast so they will be more expensive down south. It is correct that you won't get the same articulation with Kings compared with LRA springs, I've poped rear out on Rangie once, I put a stainless cable tie on the top never did it again.

[Ace]

Originally posted by one_iota
I've not been stopped with my choice: Kings and Bils.

Every decision involves a compromise.

When the Kings wear out I'll think about it again.

Series 2 Discos are a different beast to spring. I have a mate who has had dramas getting his sorted.

Hi OI, how do you find them? Are they to stiff off road? Matt

[landy_man]

I wa not trying to sound like a dickhead nor treat you like a dickhead.
All i was saying was that for the very small additional cost involved, you will get a spring that IN MY OPINION (and many others) is far superior to any of the "off the shelf", "one size fits all" kind of spring... not to mention the 3 year guarantee he gives with all his springs..
I am not knocking the Kings... they are a good quality spring...had them in my road car and were great... but in a Land Rover there are too many variables to take into account...
1. the terrain you drive
2. how high you want the vehicle to sit
3. what load you will be carrying
4. how you want it to handle onroad
5. what accessories you have bolted on the front and rear
6. how much articulation do you need
etc. etc.
All these variables can not be covered by 1 or 2 different model springs as offered by King and Lovell...

Once again, sorry if I offended..

[Ace]

Originally posted by landy_man
I wa not trying to sound like a dickhead nor treat you like a dickhead.
All i was saying was that for the very small additional cost involved, you will get a spring that IN MY OPINION (and many others) is far superior to any of the "off the shelf", "one size fits all" kind of spring... not to mention the 3 year guarantee he gives with all his springs..
I am not knocking the Kings... they are a good quality spring...had them in my road car and were great... but in a Land Rover there are too many variables to take into account...
1. the terrain you drive
2. how high you want the vehicle to sit
3. what load you will be carrying
4. how you want it to handle onroad
5. what accessories you have bolted on the front and rear
6. how much articulation do you need
etc. etc.
All these variables can not be covered by 1 or 2 different model springs as offered by King and Lovell...

Once again, sorry if I offended..

No worries Landyman, i agree with what you are saying there are many variables, and in the end i might have to scrape the cash together to get the springs from Rangie Spares, but its is also stupid not to research all the brands on the market as one might meet my needs more than another, i dont carry a load, the load i take when off road is negligible and there are very few accessories on the vehicle. I am planning to add more and do longer trips later on but it would be dangerous to allow for that now as the suspension would be way to stiff. It will be a few years before i need stiffer springs and even then it might not be worth doing when there will only be the odd one or so trips every now and then. Any idea how much they are per pair from rangie spares. Matt

[landy_man]

I believe they are around $80 or so from memory each...
But if all you really want is a little more height, why not just get some spacers, either made up or buy some...
This will give you that extra bit of lift... retain the feel of your current suspension and when you have more accessories.. i.e. winch, dual batteries, rear wheel carrier and carry a fair load, then that would be the time to upgrade...
In my opinion maybe some spacers are all you really need if you are just looking for a slighlty taller ride and are very cheap to either make or buy

[Ace]

Originally posted by landy_man
I believe they are around $80 or so from memory each...
But if all you really want is a little more height, why not just get some spacers, either made up or buy some...
This will give you that extra bit of lift... retain the feel of your current suspension and when you have more accessories.. i.e. winch, dual batteries, rear wheel carrier and carry a fair load, then that would be the time to upgrade...
In my opinion maybe some spacers are all you really need if you are just looking for a slighlty taller ride and are very cheap to either make or buy

I thought they were dearer than that, if thats the case then that shouldnt be a problem budget wise i will ring them again tomorrow. I have been told those white plastic bread boards are the best stuff to use as spacers is this has anyone used them? Matt

[landy_man]

Rangie Spares sell 1/2" spacers for about $10 IIRC...
or go to your local steel merchant and get em to cut you some solid round bar stock to the appropriate height, drill 2 holes to match the retainers.. and presto... very cheap spacers...

[Ace]

Originally posted by landy_man
Rangie Spares sell 1/2" spacers for about $10 IIRC...
or go to your local steel merchant and get em to cut you some solid round bar stock to the appropriate height, drill 2 holes to match the retainers.. and presto... very cheap spacers...

Tar, i think i will whack a half in spacer on each side on the back. Just to get the height up the little bit extra for when i do put a little gear in. Matt

[shaunp]

Just check the rears first and make sure they haven't collasped and closed up on the progressive end, this normally is what happens with OE ones that have done some work, makes them ride harsh as well as dropping the height.

[Ace]

Originally posted by shaunp
Just check the rears first and make sure they haven't collasped and closed up on the progressive end, this normally is what happens with OE ones that have done some work, makes them ride harsh as well as dropping the height.

No worries will do shuan, so let me get this right, if the rear springs have sagged a fair bit dont put the spacers in? Matt

[disconut]

I have to agree with Shaun.
Springs work in compression and extension modes. If they have collapsed and lowered the rear, the then both the compression and extension travel will be shorter as well.
Spacers will not solve this, they will only give the ride height back.
I have used Lovells in 2 Disco's sucessfully to give a 2" lift. They don't ride like the originals though.
Trev.

[disconut]

Bit of a PS to my last post.
I have been a fan of Tough Dog Shocks for a number of years. The big bore foam cells have handled all my towing duties really well. They are well constructed and do not seem to fade under a pounding. For really heavy duty stuff, check out the "Ralph" 53 mm bore jobs. (Then check out the wallet $$$$). Not used Tough Dogs up front yet, just in the rear end and usually with polyairs installed.
They tend to help stabilise the rear end, and stop "porpising", particuarly useful on my short machine when towing.
Trev.

[Ace]

Thanks Disconut, i am going to ring Rangie Spares today and talk to them again, i would like to have the suspension in by the end of next week, just waiting for some stuff to sell on ebay. Matt

[rick130]

Zook is correct when he says that Kings are a heavier rate. Ask them for their specs, you want to know free length and rate. Loaded height depends on your vehicles weight, eg accessories, etc.
IIRC, Kings front springs for a 'Fender are either 240 or 250lb/in, vs 225lb/in for OE. In my application, their 2" higher spring was hardly any longer in free length, which would have had me unseating front springs with my longer 80 series TLC Konis.

I wanted at least a 40mm lift, so went with Rangie Spares 'Purple' which are 220lb/in and a nominal 17" free length. They actually measured 17.2"/17.0 drv/pass sides when delivered.
These gave me initial bump stop clearances of 120mm/117mm.

Even though springs are 'scragged' (forced to block height or coil bound repeatedly to take a 'set') they will still settle slightly in use, and these springs seyttled out to 117mm/114mm after a few months use. After three years, this is now around 107/104mm, although this measurement was taken on an unleveled surface, so is probably a little unfair to use as a definative measurement.

Kings and Lovells will wind springs to your specifications.
Who makes the better spring is open to conjecture. I had a number of race car springs wound by Kings over ten years ago (2.25"ID) and while these were spot on in specified rate, they were poor springs in that they took different sets and leant over drunkenly (weren't parallel) after only a little use. I wasn't impressed.
Lovells at the time were the Eibach(Germany) importers (probably one of the two best spring manufactureres in the world, the other being Hyperco in the US) and learnt a lot from being exposed to Eibachs production techniques. (eg. the best race car springs, in fact any spring with a wire diameter under 5/8" is cold wound (not hot) from chrome/silicon wire, not the chrome/manganse usually used here)

Heat treatment is also critical, regarless of material used. Back in the days of the Perentie project for the ADF, JRA sent out a spring specification to Oz spring manufacturers. National Springs (I think this is now Monroes Springs ?? ) and Lovells submitted springs which were cyclic tested by JRA to determine life. National Springs out lasted the Lovells ones by some massive factor (Can't remember), even though they used identical spring steel supplied by BHP !
Apparently Lovells were gobsmacked, and really went to work to try to figure out how National were doing it. I believe National won the contract. At around the same time, National also won a contract to supply Mercedes Benz in Germany springs for their C class cars, so whatever they were doing worked.

Eibach now run their own distribution network in Australia, and they used to make 4WD springs, but their prices were $$$$$$$$$$$!

IMHO, unless you know specifically what rate and height you want, Andrew at Rangie Spares is probably the best bet as he can advise specifically what spring to use to exactly suit your situation. His advice is the little extra you are paying for in their springs.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">just my two bobs worth.....


whatever springs you get...if you get longer shocks....make sure the new springs are actually longer(stand taller) to give you the lift.......

some are the same length but stiffer.....these will pop out on articulation like pauls(i think) red county at your bbq......
they need to be long enough to prevent this....</span>

[sclarke]

I've run King Springs in a few different cars and 4WD's
I like them.
Cant say if any other are better.

But they dont collapse over time and they Work.

Who do Rangie Spares get there springs made from??

Steve

[Grimace]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">just my two bobs worth.....


whatever springs you get...if you get longer shocks....make sure the new springs are actually longer(stand taller) to give you the lift.......

some are the same length but stiffer.....these will pop out on articulation like pauls(i think) red county at your bbq......
they need to be long enough to prevent this....</span>

a very flexy rover will pop out longer springs anyways, I think just simply retaining them top and bottom is a good idea, beats the crap out of spitting a spring on the trail style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[matbor]

So far after 3 days of driving my disco with the lifted King springs in, I'm loving them, little bit more body roll, but I think is because my older springs where so low and stiff that it was almost like a sports car, except not as fast style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Need to get some good shockers for the back now and a new steering damper, maybe next payday style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Matt.

[PhilipA]

I use LRA springs because if you know what you are doing , they provide enough info on rate and length to make a decision.
I distrust companies like Kings, Lovells and OME who just say 1 inch higher etc, and do not have the info available anywhere. There are many ways to get 1 inch increase in height . For example you could have an orange 17 inch free length LRA spring with 180 lbs per inch rate or you could have a shorter 16 inch with 220 lbs, or a 15.5 inch with 240 lbs. All will give a 1 inch lift but be vastly different in ride quality and articulation.
At least with LRA you know what you have, and if unhappy make alterations based on the info they provide, because every Rover is different in the amount of gear people carry, the amount stuck on the back like spare tyre carriers etc so 1 inch lift or 2 inch lift mean nothing..
Iwould urge you to buy LRA springs from a specialist like Graeme Cooper or LRA as they have a LOT of experience and can get a lot closer to what you want than the Lovells guy or OME who see a Rangie or Disco once in a blue moon.
regards Philip A

[discowhite]

Ace,
i agree with both landy man and phillipa.
what they are saying is spot on,, im not saying that kings are crap,, im
just saying that they are better in road cars.
i have the so called 2'' lift springs( being 250lb front and 330 to 350lb
rear) WAY TO STIFF!.. but also my disco measures what land rover
australia says it should, height wise. its spot on factory specs. (i can back this up with the measurements and specs sheet if needed.)

so sell some more gear on ebay, save your dollars, and get exactly
what you need. dont do what i did and by them cos they are cheep.
you will spend the next year kicking yourself.

phil.

[one_iota]

Originally posted by Ace+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ace)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-one_iota
I've not been stopped with my choice: Kings and Bils.

Every decision involves a compromise.

When the Kings wear out I'll think about it again.

Series 2 Discos are a different beast to spring. I have a mate who has had dramas getting his sorted.

Hi OI, how do you find them? Are they to stiff off road? Matt[/b][/quote]

Ace

No my springs aren’t too hard.

That is the short answer.

Now the long answer with some facts.

My suspension was upgraded in October 2002 (before I knew about this place) The Disco had 108,000 km on the clock. The rear at least had sagged dramatically.

I had heard of King Springs as opposed to OME. I was after a 2”lift as this seemed to be the way to go. I liked the sound of Bilsteins because they were gas charged and seemed to have a good reputation based on the limited knowledge that I had access to at the time. I liked the idea that they would not fade on corrugated roads. I also figured that polyair springs would be advantageous when the car was loaded. (thinking touring with a load in the back).

So I went to the bloke (a Disco owner) who serviced it and gave him the order. He agreed with the idea and did the job.

Both he and I were well pleased with the result. The ride was improved out of sight. He had installed the lightest King Springs that gave a nominal 2” Lift. This meant for the rear that day to day the ride is soft. When the load is on I can pump up the rears and maintain clearance. He had problems with ride comfort using Heavy Duty Rears.

So some observations.

The measurement of lift I have is from discoweb.org and is measured in inches from the centre of the hub to the top of the wheel arch.

For a new stock D1 the measurements are:

Front 18.5” Rear 19.5”

After the “Lift” mine measured 18.5” Front and 20.5” Rear (a 1” lift at the rear)

After 50,000 km my passenger side rear has dropped 0.5”

So much for the 2” Lift.

To check this I measured the height of the roof above the ground: 1950mm as opposed to the spec height of 1928: 30mm say an inch at the rear).

When is a 2” lift not a 2” lift maybe when you drive a Tdi because the engine is heavier than a V8?

Do I care well yes but the ride with the softer springs is good. Rear articulation is compromised by the polyairs any way.

Regardless of this the Disco is quite capable and comfortable for what I want.

When I go through this again armed with what I know now I will have a chat with LRA.

I would then have a true 2” lift with long Bils and the softest springs I could get. Probably stick with the polyairs.

[Gaz69]

Hi guys.
Thought i would throw my two bobs worth in. Dad put some Rangie spares springs in his 1995 Disco a couple a years ago and they lasted 12 months before the front end was sagging badly. Admitaly it he has a winch on the front and he does over 100,000 a year. He ended up putting in some tough dog springs and he is wrapped. I have some Rangie spares springs in my rangie with the 6.2L chev but they are a bit soft. Go with what you can afford.

Gaz

[Ace]

Thanks OI and Gaz, i didnt get time to ring Andrew at RS, but will get to it by the end of the week. Still not sure what to do. Matt

[one_iota]

Originally posted by Ace
Thanks OI and Gaz, i didnt get time to ring Andrew at RS, but will get to it by the end of the week. Still not sure what to do. Matt

Ace,

What are the measurements from the centre of the hub to the top of the wheel arch currently? Measure passenger and drivers sides front and back.

[Ace]

Originally posted by one_iota+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(one_iota)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Ace
Thanks OI and Gaz, i didnt get time to ring Andrew at RS, but will get to it by the end of the week. Still not sure what to do. Matt

Ace,

What are the measurements from the centre of the hub to the top of the wheel arch currently? Measure passenger and drivers sides front and back.[/b][/quote]

Back in a minute. Matt

[Ace]

Ok,

Front Passenger side- 44-45cm or there abouts, its dark and the torch has flat batteries.

Rear Passenger side- 48-49cm.

Matt

[LRHybrid100]

you really need to be considering the space between the bump stops and the axel itself.

Rangie Spares are very informative about what is the best space between these for what ever situation you want.

Then you must consider the bump stop space and the total high of the spaces between all the coils - otherwise your coils can be fully compressed (and binding together) and the axel still not hitting the bump stops.

just my 10c worth

LRH

[Ace]

Originally posted by LRHybrid100
you really need to be considering the space between the bump stops and the axel itself.

Rangie Spares are very informative about what is the best space between these for what ever situation you want.

Then you must consider the bump stop space and the total high of the spaces between all the coils - otherwise your coils can be fully compressed (and binding together) and the axel still not hitting the bump stops.

just my 10c worth

LRH

Why is the bump stop clearance important? Matt

[landy_man]

Originally posted by Gaz69
Hi guys.
Thought i would throw my two bobs worth in. Dad put some Rangie spares springs in his 1995 Disco a couple a years ago and they lasted 12 months before the front end was sagging badly. Admitaly it he has a winch on the front and he does over 100,000 a year. He ended up putting in some tough dog springs and he is wrapped. I have some Rangie spares springs in my rangie with the 6.2L chev but they are a bit soft. Go with what you can afford.

Gaz

why did he not take them back... Rangie Spares offer a 3 year warranty on their springs

[landy_man]

bump stop clearance is an accurate way of measuring lift..
Andrew @ RS will ask for these measurements when recommending springs...

[one_iota]

Originally posted by LRHybrid100
you really need to be considering the space between the bump stops and the axel itself.

Rangie Spares are very informative about what is the best space between these for what ever situation you want.

Then you must consider the bump stop space and the total high of the spaces between all the coils - otherwise your coils can be fully compressed (and binding together) and the axel still not hitting the bump stops.

just my 10c worth

LRH

Indisputable LRH but in order to understand how much the existing springs may have sagged below stock then the discoweb measurement is the only one that I have come across.

Aces suspension is therefore about 1/2 " to 3/4" lower than stock at the front and just a little less than stock at the rear. But Ace has a Bull Bar and that could account for the front.

A simplistic rule of thumb measurement.

Just interested.

[one_iota]

Everyone here is spouting off about lift and noone here has put the numbers on the table.

So what are the dimensions of the bumpstop clearance in a stock LR.

And is this measured with a load of petrol in the tank?

How else are we to measure the veracity of the advice we are given or is it blind faith in Andrew.

Presumably Ace can now measure the bump stop dimension and understand more or less what stock is.

See my post above: when is a 2" lift not a 2" lift.

:roll:

[LRHybrid100]

Originally posted by landy_man
bump stop clearance is an accurate way of measuring lift..
Andrew @ RS will ask for these measurements when recommending springs...

THX Landy_man, was just about to say the same.

I also learnt this from Andrew @ RS -top bloke, knows his modding LR business and always willing to discuss and help you.

LRH

[one_iota]

Originally posted by LRHybrid100+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LRHybrid100)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-landy_man
bump stop clearance is an accurate way of measuring lift..
Andrew @ RS will ask for these measurements when recommending springs...

THX Landy_man, was just about to say the same.

I also learnt this from Andrew @ RS -top bloke, knows his modding LR business and always willing to discuss and help you.

LRH[/b][/quote]

I hope he doesn't get hit by a bus 8O because no one else will know what to do. It must be a black art :wink: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[rangie5litre]

G'day All,
Interesting thread!
I've been collecting info from aftermarket suspension suppliers, all but one asked about the in service weight, in my case is way above what LR say is the unladen weight. They claim 1793kg for my Rangie, the weighbridge ticket says 2060kg with 1/4 tank of fuel, and spare tyre, no tools, mats, extra lights and with standard size tyres too.

By the time I add all the permanent extras including heavy items like rear step bar, full length roof rack, hi-lift & tools[always carry tools 8O ] plus home made rear storage the 'tare'weight will be around 2250kg to 2300kg PLUS at least 3 people + assorted camping stuff etc. The stock RR spring are very comfy and flex well, but for the type of touring I have in mind they won't be able to carry all the extra weight, without air assistance to prevent bottoming out. The front bottoms easily too with the heavier Holden eight[HSV Rangie..what did you do?]and can't use polyairs there!

My budget is very tight, my options were a 30mm spacer lift to lessen bottoming out and polyairs for the rear for when fully set up, at around $1000 fitted, or four 2 in lift coils[Kings] on their own for $650 fitted.

What made me lean towards four new coils was:
firstly I already have the second highest OE spring rate fitted [according to my factory repair manual]and they were not coping with even very light loads. Stockton sand dunes are a good test...........
Secondly, I was told by more than one person Polyairs are not designed for constant load carrying, and I was told they would not last under these circumstances. $400 bucks is a lot of money to waste, so for me at least, longer and stiffer coils will be needed to be able to carry the everyday load safely, which for me is a priority over offroad articulation.
At least it solves the drama of extra weight over both axles! I've seen lots of offroaders in action where the coils didn't flex very well, and in most cases that I saw the vehicles were much lighter than a touring setup would be and so didn't compress and extend the live axles. I had this problem in a leaf sprung lifted Sierra.
I'll give an honest opinion how it goes on and offroad after they are fitted and bedded in a little.
Just my two bob's worth! Cheers Scott

8O

[seqfisho]

Originally posted by landy_man
I believe they are around $80 or so from memory each...



Just got off the phone with LRA and their springs were quoted at $220 a pair, thats not too bad, but the $210 a corner for Bilsteins 8O made me start listening, are they that good and how do they go with the gibbers on outback roads, I know that Ive dented a couple of Emu's on the Defenders but being twin tube didn't hinder the performance.


Glen.

[dungarover]

King Springs are ****e on Rangies/Discos IMO. I had a set on Aquarangie and took them off after one trip out (and sold them to a bloke I know for half of what I paid for them new).

RS springs are the go, plenty of options and wouldn't look anywhere else for springs when the time comes to replace them. I run some 'unknown' brand of spring but they sure work a treat (got them for nothing off a mate when we upgraded his to the Old Man emu kit) and I use OME shocks, whci are pretty good value for money.

I don't find $200+ for springs all that expensive. I would rather spend a bit more and get what I want then find out afterwards (like with the Kings) which would of cost me more if I hadn't got the current set for nothing.

Just my thought on the matter. best of luck with it.

Trav

[discowhite]

ALRIGHT, THIS IS THE NVD OR NEW VEHICLE DATA SHEET DIRECT FROM LAND ROVER AUSTRALIA.
http://www.aulro.com/albums/album17/382614582hfQKXT_ph.sized.jpg
look at the bottom lh side.
these figures are for LA, MA, and KA discos both engines.

IT QUOTES HUB TO GUARD HEIGHTS....NOT BUMP STOP...... WHY I ASKED??? "BECAUSE THIS WAY IS MORE ACCURATE''.

I just measured my KA disco with 2" kings(krfr01 and krrr04)
front hub to guard....480mm(460mmstd) bumpstop of 90mm(3.5'')
rear ....515mm(490mmstd) bumpstop of 140mm(5.5'')

so from this you think we would have a good starting point?
i asked RTA about 2'' lifts i was told i could only increase my bumpstop height by 1/3. so if thoes are my bs height figures and i have documentation from the manufacturer specifing the heights(this is the critical point the RTA insisted on), i would rather go with land rover aust
than heresay....

also with thoes bs heights im sposed to have vague steering and all the rest.... bulls$%t, my disco drives like a dream, and i have a smaller steering wheel as well.

SO WHOS RIGHT?????? RS OR L R AUST????? :evil:

[seqfisho]

Originally posted by discowhite

SO WHOS RIGHT?????? RS OR L R AUST????? :evil:


Buggered if I know :roll: :roll:


Glen.

[one_iota]

Nice numbers DW 8)

So if we were to work the stock BS distance from your measurements the stock front dimension should be 70mm and the rear 115mm.

If we apply the RTA's 1/3 rule to the BS dimensions the maximum acceptable lift is 23mm (say 1") at the front and 38mm (1 1/2") at the rear. (so much for 2"lift kits).

It's only arithmetics but I bet no-one outside this forum has done the sums. Let alone the RTA. :roll:

I presume this applies to a Disco unladen and with no fuel in the tank as shipped to these fair shores.

Doesn't add much to the debate about the virtues of Kings over Lovells but it does say something about rules and dogma.

[Gaz69]

Landy_man wrote:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Gaz69 wrote:
Hi guys.
Thought i would throw my two bobs worth in. Dad put some Rangie spares springs in his 1995 Disco a couple a years ago and they lasted 12 months before the front end was sagging badly. Admitaly it he has a winch on the front and he does over 100,000 a year. He ended up putting in some tough dog springs and he is wrapped. I have some Rangie spares springs in my rangie with the 6.2L chev but they are a bit soft. Go with what you can afford.

Gaz


why did he not take them back... Rangie Spares offer a 3 year warranty on their springs[/b][/quote]

He would of taken them back but he lives in Broken Hill and couldn't get the time to drop into Melbourne to sort it out with Andrew. That was the second set of Rangie Spares springs that he had in it after the first set was changed after a few days when Dad was working near Little River out from Bacchus Marsh. The joys of living in rural areas :roll: Andrew from Rangie spares has been good to me but i live near Mildura so i can get gear overnighted from Melbourne but Broken Hill is a different story. I need new springs for my defender 130 and i do not know what brand i am going to use. Thinking of full air bags for the rear but that is another story.

Cheers
Gaz

[matbor]

If you put bigger bumpstops on does that slove the RTA problem ?

[shaunp]

M.R. auto do Billys for about $180 last time I asked. I'm going over in the morning for some stuff for a ser 3 so I'll ask. I've got some warrenty replacement ECUs to give them/swap for some thing that I want and front shocks are on my list to do also so I'll get a price.

[Ace]

Originally posted by shaunp
M.R. auto do Billys for about $180 last time I asked. I'm going over in the morning for some stuff for a ser 3 so I'll ask. I've got some warrenty replacement ECUs to give them/swap for some thing that I want and front shocks are on my list to do also so I'll get a price.

Thanks Shaun, the cheapest i have been quoted for Billy's is $199, i you can find them cheaper i would be interested.

Also, another Land Rover place, Discovery Automotive i think the name is, has told me that Koni shocks are better for Disco's than bilsteins has anyone else heard this, and has anyone else used them? Matt

[landy_man]

yep... I run Koni's and reckon they are great...

As for the Bilsteins that RS sells, don't forget that these are the longest off the shelf Bilsteins suitable for Rovers with the correct mounting eye/studs available in Aus and were apparently custom done for RS..
But in my opinion are a little expensive when you can buy some long Koni's for/off another vehicle and get mounts changed to suit Rover for less than $$$$ than their Billies... but the Billies are nice riding as are the Koni's...
Most will say that either Koni or Billstein are the only shocks to run on Rovers and I agree :wink:

[Ace]

Originally posted by landy_man
yep... I run Koni's and reckon they are great...

As for the Bilsteins that RS sells, don't forget that these are the longest off the shelf Bilsteins suitable for Rovers with the correct mounting eye/studs available in Aus and were apparently custom done for RS..
But in my opinion are a little expensive when you can buy some long Koni's for/off another vehicle and get mounts changed to suit Rover for less than $$$$ than their Billies... but the Billies are nice riding as are the Koni's...
Most will say that either Koni or Billstein are the only shocks to run on Rovers and I agree :wink:

Thanks Landyman, I was talking to Andrew, to actually warrant the Longer Billy's from RS you need the body lift kit and as you said the different mounts, i dont need these so would be buying the standard length Billy's anyway. This thread was supposed to make my choice easier not complicate it. :? Matt

[one_iota]

Ace,

At the risk of repeating myself.

If you go the Bils use the rear lower washers from the stock LR shocks as the the tinfoil washers that came with my Bils were crap.

[Ace]

Originally posted by one_iota
Ace,

At the risk of repeating myself.

If you go the Bils use the rear lower washers from the stock LR shocks as the the tinfoil washers that came with my Bils were crap.

Is that your way of saying go the bilsteins OI? Matt

[one_iota]

Ace,

I haven't done a back to back comparison with Koni's. But apart from the lousy washers the Bils have been very good compared to the previous LR stock shocks.

The test for me was on relatively high speed corrugated bends. The usual skip and drift disappeared. It is good to have some control without having to think about throttle and opposite lock style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[LRHybrid100]

I currently have Koni shockies and Lovells coils not my first choice, but circumstances lead the way - would be interesting to compare with your Billy's and Kings OI.

My preference for the D100 will be LRA Billy's and LRA Coils - had these on my previous Disco and they were GREAT. D100 currently sits on Tough Dog coils and shockies

LRH

[Ace]

Looks like its RS Coils and Billy shocks then. Now all i need is the cash. Matt

[discowhite]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>My preference for the D100 will be LRA Billy's and LRA Coils[/b][/quote]

LRH, ring heasmans(bisteins aust) thats where LR auto get them from
and they are cheaper than the LRA quoted price.
all they are are a 10'' stroke mono tube shock.

this is the email i got

>From: "Anthony Guyatt" <anthony.guyatt@bilstein.com.au>
>To: "'philip knott'" <theonlyphil@hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: shock prices wanted.
>Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:17:58 +1000
>Philip,
>We might have something even better for you, there is a specially made
>shock here that has 10" travel ready to fit in the existing mounts of
>the Disco this suits 4" lift. These are $990 for all four units. This
>compares with
>$1276 for 4 B46 0360 with heim joints which are transmit a lot of
>vibration for a touring vehicle.
>Regards,
>Tony

i am looking at the B46 0360. these have a 14mm shaft, 12mm heim
joint ends, rebuildable, and independant rebound and compression tuing.
bill's oz wants $319 per shock, but i can import them for $151aud per shock??? even with $70 freight and customs charge its still cheaper to
import them.

so do your homework first, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat!

[rick130]

The other Bilstein importer is Quadrant Suspensions in Melbourne, and I alwys found them much better price wise than Heasmans, however if you want to use rose jointed Bilsteins, I'd contact Baker Bros (used to be Vee Dub motors a loooong time ago) in Melbourne. Gary and his brother (can't remember his name) are Bilstein gurus (they were the original off road racing legends in Oz when it started in the seventies), and the only people I'd use in Oz for valving/rebuilding.

Also bear in mind that stock Bilsteins, and the LRA long travel ones are valved for stock Rangie/Disco springs, so if you want to use them in the rear of a 110/130 they will be too soft in rebound damping.
IIRC, Hesmans charge $130 per shock for revalving. 8O

[Disco300Tdi]

Hi Matt
I don't need to throw a spanner into the works but,
I replaced my standard height kings with a set of EFS 2"
coils and shocks. I carry a 40litre engel, rear step with swing away wheel carrier plus original spare i/s, 130 litre tanks, tool boxes and recovery gear incl winch on the front (these all live permanantly in the RR)
I also fitted a set of polyairs, as I drag a camper around as well
The ride is far better than before, no more bouncing around corrugated corners, softer ride and not too much change with the polyairs.

I sold the kings to Mr Bling
I wonder if he has fitted them yet??

[incisor]

set of EFS 2" = ?

and what is the big plus with polyairs?

i am lost style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Disco300Tdi]

Sorry Inc,
What I ment to say is a set of 2" lift coils

http://www.efs4wd.com.au/

The polyairs are good just for that extra lift when needed

[incisor]

phew, thought i had lost the plot style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[BigT]

Hi guys
i've installed kings hdd04 springs to the rear of my 97 disco & moved the original rear springs to the front to stop it driving down hill , had monroe shocks but they failed so now have tjm xgs long travel shocks muh better ride and still good articulation style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif seems to work for me

[Ace]

Originally posted by BigT
Hi guys
i've installed kings hdd04 springs to the rear of my 97 disco & moved the original rear springs to the front to stop it driving down hill , had monroe shocks but they failed so now have tjm xgs long travel shocks muh better ride and still good articulation style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif seems to work for me

Hi BigT, do you find the rear stiff at all? How much wieght tod you carry off road, and how do you find the articulation. Matt

[seqfisho]

Originally posted by BigT
Hi guys
i've installed kings hdd04 springs to the rear of my 97 disco & moved the original rear springs to the front to stop it driving down hill , had monroe shocks but they failed so now have tjm xgs long travel shocks muh better ride and still good articulation style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif seems to work for me


That is one of the short term options I was going to do to get some height and xtra load capacity till I get everything in place and go for the full time setup when the car is completed with all the additions.


Glen

[rangie5litre]

Hi All,

Has anyone installed 30mm poly spacers on a Classic RR as opposed to fitting 2 inch raised [stiffer] coils? :?

Still undecided what to do to increase bump stop clearance when laden.

Cheers Scott.

[LRHybrid100]

I have used Coopers 1" (25mm) alloy spacers in their lift kit.

LRH

[Slunnie]

Originally posted by discowhite
LRH, ring heasmans(bisteins aust) thats where LR auto get them from
and they are cheaper than the LRA quoted price.
all they are are a 10'' stroke mono tube shock.

this is the email i got

>From: "Anthony Guyatt" <anthony.guyatt@bilstein.com.au>
>To: "'philip knott'" <theonlyphil@hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: shock prices wanted.
>Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:17:58 +1000
>Philip,
>We might have something even better for you, there is a specially made
>shock here that has 10" travel ready to fit in the existing mounts of
>the Disco this suits 4" lift. These are $990 for all four units. This
>compares with
>$1276 for 4 B46 0360 with heim joints which are transmit a lot of
>vibration for a touring vehicle.
>Regards,
>Tony

i am looking at the B46 0360. these have a 14mm shaft, 12mm heim
joint ends, rebuildable, and independant rebound and compression tuing.
bill's oz wants $319 per shock, but i can import them for $151aud per shock??? even with $70 freight and customs charge its still cheaper to
import them.

so do your homework first, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat!
These shocks are for the Disco2 which are all eye to eye ends, and you never guess where they were developed from. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif If you like stiff shock valving like I do, then the Patrol rears are excellent to use. Its seems there are a lot on here that like soft rides, and if thats you then dont use that shock or have it revalved. You may want the sports div to soften the front or stiffen the rear to suit. I like the shock stiff to control the 4WD especially when things are getting gnarly. For the B46-0360 I'm running them also and they are also a very good shock assuming you have then revalved to the Disco specs. They are stiffer than the standard Billy, but spot on in the valving IMHO. They are not stiff riding at all, though have a lot of rebound control. The heims will become clicky in them and I dont recommend them for a DD. For a bush car.... no worries.

The guys at Heasmans/Sydney shocks/Bilsteins... are first rate, and are the ones that have the Bilstein development data for the rovers, and I cant recommend them highly enough.

With regard to the special 10", 4" lifted shock, just check to see if its the 10" shock to suit 4" lift, or if its the 10" shock with the 4" extended shaft that they have at the moment. These are 2 completely different shocks.

[4WDSTUFF]

For those who are interested in prices
Prices include free delivery

For Range Rover and Discovery
Coils 2&3 inch lift $150 a pair
Coils 4 inch lift $170 a pair
Bilstein shocks $170 each
Koni shocks $220 each
Dobinsons shocks $100 each
Lovells shocks $100 each
EFS shocks $105 each
Procomp shocks $125 each

Free height for normal 2 inch lift is 400mm. If you want to keep the softer ride than there is a 440mm free height coil for a 2 inch lift. If your rear coils aren't stuffed you could use them up front for your 2 inch lift.
There is a normal 3 inch lift or a heavy 3 inch lift coil. For a 4 inch lift rear if you want heaps of flex no load I can sell you a 530mm free height coil(very soft)

I can also get some coils specially built to your specs if you like for $175 a pair.

Shane on 0409 593 414
www.suspensionstuff.com.au (http://www.suspensionstuff.com.au)
Suspension Stuff

[Redback]

This is the best thread i've read style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif only problem now is i'm more confused than ever.

I have just returned from the simpson and i setup our Disco a few weeks before leaving, my first addition was OME springs and Bilstein shocks, after our first off road trip to Aces BBQ II we found that the so called long travel billys were to short, they were topping out (ain't that a loud bang 8O ), a quick call to Heasmans and they said bring them in and we'll exchange them for our 50mm extended ones (their mod) and that solved that problem.
So now we were set, i thought, the ride of OME and Bilsteins IMO was not good but it's what we had and for what we paid not bad.
Our trip, well the combination didn't last all that long.
This is after 1500ks 1200 on road now remember this setup was level when we left.
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/bazzar/amg.sized.jpg
This is a further 1000ks on all off road and ruts corrigations woops in the desert and big holes.

The shocks and springs are pretty well knackered by this stage and these are not even 6mths old and our first outback trip in this car, 15,000ks and shagged :evil:
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/bazzar/ajg.sized.jpg
This is what happens when you go for cheap, $820 for springs and shocks.

The shocks were replaced under warrenty again but this time we have the Bilstein factory extended long travel shocks only new into the country a bit better but not much, although springs are stuff so can't tell really.

My next set will be with Polyairs included, i'm going for a soft setup for better off road articulation and the polyairs for load carrying, i only wish that LandRover made springs to give a 2" lift cause the standard spring and shocks are far superior in ride comfort than OME and Bilsteins.

Just my comments in all this

So what to buy, Rangie Spares do look good but i think i'll go with Tough Dogs or Koni's when it comes time to get new shocks

Baz.[/img]

[Ace]

Originally posted by 4WDSTUFF
For those who are interested in prices
Prices include free delivery

For Range Rover and Discovery
Coils 2&3 inch lift $150 a pair
Coils 4 inch lift $170 a pair
Bilstein shocks $170 each
Koni shocks $220 each
Dobinsons shocks $95 each
Procomp shocks $125 each

Free height for normal 2 inch lift is 400mm. If you want to keep the softer ride than there is a 440mm free height coil for a 2 inch lift. If your rear coils aren't stuffed you could use them up front for your 2 inch lift.
There is a normal 3 inch lift or a heavy 3 inch lift coil. For a 4 inch lift rear if you want heaps of flex no load I can sell you a 530mm free height coil(very very soft)

For 2 and 3 inch lift, I usually sell Lovells but I sell Dobinsons and Kings also for the same price. The 4 inch lift coils are special build by either Lovells or Dobinsons to my suppliers specs

I can also get some coils specially built to your specs if you like for $180 a pair. It would be helpful if you knew what free height, amount of turns and wire diameter you wanted.

Shane on 0409 593 414 or email shanetamie@bigpond.com
4WD STUFF

Hi Shane, i was the one who emailed you a while ago, I am after the bilstein shocks, i have sourced a set of king springs second hand so i am going to try those. I am waiting for my tax cheque to come back and then i will give you a call.

Know how you feel baz, i started the thread to help make my mind up, it didnt work, people just kept giving me more options. :? So im going to try Phils springs, and some bilstein shocks, if i dont like the springs i can rip them out and sell them on ebay and try something different. Matt

[rangie5litre]

Interesting Baz!

I was looking at OME springs, I think I will take your lead and leave the factory coils in and fit Polyairs or Coilrite[form the Airbag Man].

I'm off to Wholesale Suspension in Penrith tomorrow to have a chat about my options. Probably go for 30mm poly spacers for bumpstop clearance and air bags for keeping things level when loaded or towing the van. Your'e rihght, the stock Landrover coils are comfy! 8)

Cheers Scott.

[4WDSTUFF]

No worries Ace

For my Rangie I also have soft coils and polyairs ($350) for stability and weight carrying. The only problem is my ZF auto needs a rebuild. (Any help welcome).

It is half the price to have a 2nd set of stiff coils and change them over but who wants to do this.

The softer the coil the more flex you get and the more they sag when you put weight on them. A stiffer coil is less likely to sag but no flex. It's a compromise.

Shane

[4WDSTUFF]

For everyone who wants to keep their soft ride but have a 2 inch lift.

What about using your original rear coils in the front with a spacer.
And get a new set of soft coils for the rear. 440mm free height compared to 400mm normally and buy yourself some longer shocks.

What do you reckon?

Shane

[landy_man]

thought I would dig up this thread again...
How did you end up going ACE...
Lots of interesting info hear.. It is time for me to do the rear of my Disco and will be going with Rangie Spares again...

How did you find the Kings.. and Bilstein combo...

Intersted in your outcome..

Cheers

[Ace]

Originally posted by landy_man
thought I would dig up this thread again...
How did you end up going ACE...
Lots of interesting info hear.. It is time for me to do the rear of my Disco and will be going with Rangie Spares again...

How did you find the Kings.. and Bilstein combo...

Intersted in your outcome..

Cheers

I went with a set of King Srings i bought from Discowhite. So far i have been happy with them. Next time, when i have more cash i will try out some custom ones rather than the off the shelf type, but they havent really affect articulation that much, the OME shocks i bought could be longer, they are the limiting factor on the suspension dropping as far as it could. Next time i think i will try the Bilstein long travel shocks. But for someone on a budget, like me, who wants a good set up for a reasonable price they are good. But i installed a set of OME shocks and springs on Phatlife's disco and having not really driving his i think that that combo seems to work better, dont know why but it does. Matt

[Slunnie]

Thats interesting. On the D2 at least the Kings (190lb/in) are a fraction stiffer on the front than OME (180lb/in) - which is a good thing as the OME one settle too much. But, the King rears are about 240-250lb/in whereas the OMEs are a lot stiffer at about 300-340lb/in.

[dungarover]

I've never been a big fan of Kings, but I had a set in the shed from a Rangie wreck and since my budget is tight I threw them on the 87 Rangie I have just aquired. The stock springs sagged badly so I had no choice ATM.

The Rangie sits nice and level (I notice with Kings when new they sit with the arse end highy in the air) with about 15mm more height in the rear (what they really should be IMO). Plus they have settled a bit and have a softer ride compared to what thy're normally like.

Still got the Biltein shocks, haven't decided what to do with them at this stage. They still work so they'll stay on board for the time being.

Trav

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by Ace


the OME shocks i bought could be longer, they are the limiting factor on the suspension dropping as far as it could. Next time i think i will try the Bilstein long travel shocks. But for someone on a budget, like me, who wants a good set up for a reasonable price they are good. Matt



<span style="color:blue">apparently the shocks off an 80 series cruiser fit straight in and are 1 or 2
inches longer than standard......and gotta be cheaper than land rover....




(as long as you get generic brands they wont say tojo on them so your car
wont reject them.....)</span>

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Gaz69
Hi guys.
Thought i would throw my two bobs worth in. Dad put some Rangie spares springs in his 1995 Disco a couple a years ago and they lasted 12 months before the front end was sagging badly. Admitaly it he has a winch on the front and he does over 100,000 a year. He ended up putting in some tough dog springs and he is wrapped. I have some Rangie spares springs in my rangie with the 6.2L chev but they are a bit soft. Go with what you can afford.

Gaz

100,000km is the life expectancy of a coil spring so thats not too bad.

And tough dog coils are Kings coils powdercoated grey (not by tough dog) they are made by kings, just like OME and coloured grey from the factory.

LRA has a spring almost identical in rate to the Tough Dog coil so perhaps his last springs were underated for the load.

Cheers
Mike

[harryw]

When we acquired the 02 TD5 we found the suspension a little soft so went the Pedders route.

Couldn't tell you all the technical stuff as to what was fitted but when we lived in Broome and travelled off road up there we had no problems and the ride was , in our view, much better.

For us the standard option gave to much sway going round bends and roundabouts and having previously fitted Pedders to our Vitara was happy to go through Pedders again.

Having read this thread I would may be have thought a bit more about the options but at the time it was an easy option because they had an outlet in Broome.