Disco 3 and LED trailer lights

[Geotrecaz]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif We struck a problem when we picked up our new caravan fitted with LED tail light assemblies. There's a 2 volt pulse coming down the green & yellow indicator light wires from the car. This pulse causes the LED indicators to flash continuously as if they were hazard lights. Have approached LR Aust on this and they view LED's on caravans/trailers as "non compatible" lighting units.
We had to revert to festoon lighting to get mobile, but prefer to refit LED's. Does anybody have a solution to this problem?

[Redback]

Geez didn't know that, i wonder if the DII is the same, i would look at one of the English Land Rover forums they seem to have more info on the D3.

Baz.

[seqfisho]

Originally posted by Geotrecaz
Have approached LR Aust on this and they view LED's on caravans/trailers as "non compatible" lighting units.

I hate to say it but it looks like the technology has got beyond the local LR people, how could the most technological 4wd not be compatible with the latest designs in automotive lighting, LEDs are the future and aren't the D3 tail/stop lights LEDs ?

Glen.

[disconut]

Quick fix is to fit two relays to your Disco's indicator trailer wires. Have the Disco switch these relays to put 12 volts to your LED indicators. I presume the tail and brake lights are ok?
The 2 volt pulse should not trigger the relays.
I tried some LED lamps in my Defender indicators and got fast flashing lamps. I believe the LR flasher unit is electronic and is looking at the lamp resistance to trigger the on/off mode. LED's have virtually no resistance so do not operate correctly.

Trev.

[DiscoTDI]

Thats interesting, as I was going to change my trailer over to LED, sounds like a big pain to do the change 8O

[disconut]

They should be ok with a TDi. You will lose your trailer indication in the instrument panel as it looks for an increased electrical load to trigger the trailer indication lamp.
Trev.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

what about running a resistor in line with the led lights to give a bit more load to the circuit?

[disconut]

I had a look at that idea for the Defender. Need a very small resistor like 1.5 ohms or something like that. Then the wattage of the resistor was another issue. You get into putting a bundle in parallel to get it right.
I have given up for the moment as I would like to do it without adding resistors. I am not sure how the buses and trucks work this out.
Any auto leckies out there?
Trev.

[Geotrecaz]

Thanks for the ideas.
Have tried resistors at the suggestion of LRA via a Melbourne dealer (they said that because LED’s have no resistance to voltage, installation of a 0.6 ohm resistor in each of the green and yellow trailer wires on the caravan should solve the problem. After returning to the caravan park (where the van was towed to by someone else) and trying a range of resistors (including ceramics), the problem remained. Couldn't totally eliminate the pulsing. I informed the dealer and he later advised me that capacitors should have been used (as well as or in place of resistors – I am not quite sure), but he couldn’t tell me what size capacitor to get. I'm no auto electrician, so after 2 days of trying to get a fix, we opted to have the LED's replaced with festoon globes.
I understand that this is a known problem in the US and Europe and Land Rover’s attitude in those markets is to tell customers not to use LED lights on towed vehicles, but no-one told us! Even a recent enquiry with an Adelaide dealer regarding towing specs, comments were restricted to towing weights only - no mention of LED problems - so it looks like a buyer beware attitude by LRA.

[disconut]

Sticking capacitors in the line will smooth out the pulse, but you still have to offload two volts to ground.
Trev.

[drivesafe]

Hi Geotrecez, stick with disconut’s idea of fitting relays.

The pulse you have come across is part of the D3’s CAN ( Controlled Area Network ) which both controls and monitors various functions and devices around the disco.

I take it you have a tow pack installed. If so, part of the tow pack is an Interface Module installed to control and monitor your trailer/caravan lights. Putting resistors and/or capacitors in the wiring might very well stuff the interface module or could cause your fault display to run a muck.

Go with the relays but remember that this will cancel out the monitoring of the trailer / caravan globes.

Cheers

[Disco300Tdi]

Hybralec Industries sell the right flasher for LED tail lights

http://www.hybralec.com.au/leds/taillights.htm

[p38arover]

Originally posted by seqfisho+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seqfisho)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Geotrecaz
Have approached LR Aust on this and they view LED's on caravans/trailers as "non compatible" lighting units.

I hate to say it but it looks like the technology has got beyond the local LR people, how could the most technological 4wd not be compatible with the latest designs in automotive lighting, LEDs are the future and aren't the D3 tail/stop lights LEDs ?.[/b][/quote]

Would you believe I just received an email from the engineer tasked with fixing the problem?

True.

I won't mention his name cos I don't know if I'm supposed to know.

Ron

[Geotrecaz]

Originally posted by 84RR
Hybralec Industries sell the right flasher for LED tail lights

http://www.hybralec.com.au/leds/taillights.htm

Have been in touch with Hybralec who have a unit for installation on a trailer which works for BMW. Am waiting for an answer to see if it will work for us.

[disconut]

<span style="color:blue">Have been in touch with Hybralec who have a unit for installation on a trailer which works for BMW. Am waiting for an answer to see if it will work for us.</span>

While surfing the Forum I came across your post again. How did you get on with this problem?

Trev.

[Geotrecaz]

Originally posted by disconut
<span style="color:blue">Have been in touch with Hybralec who have a unit for installation on a trailer which works for BMW. Am waiting for an answer to see if it will work for us.</span>

While surfing the Forum I came across your post again. How did you get on with this problem?

Trev.
Have been away and just ordered the unit from Hybralec last week. Am expecting it to arrive in the post tomorrow, and I have the LED's ready to tryout asap. Hopefully it will work and we can reinstall the LED's on the van.

Geotrecaz

[Geotrecaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Have been away and just ordered the unit from Hybralec last week. Am expecting it to arrive in the post tomorrow, and I have the LED's ready to tryout asap. Hopefully it will work and we can reinstall the LED's on the van.[/b][/quote]
An update for those interested. The Hybralec unit arrived and unfortunately didn't solve our problem. :cry:
Frank from Hybralec has been very helpful and has even contacted LR Aust himself, but they don't seem to be able to give him the info he needs to make a fix. He has resorted to communicating with LR UK now.
We continue to be very frustrated. :roll:

[p38arover]

As I said earlier, LR Aust are aware of the problem and have contracted an engineer to look into it.

Ron

[drivesafe]

Hi Geotrecaz, don’t know if you have had your problem solved yet.

If not, check out a Brilite supplier.

Apparently they have a device that you install on both the left and right turn signal wires and it may fix your problem.

The problem has been plaguing vehicles in Europe for some time and in some cases, installing the LED indicator units on some truck has caused the truck’s blinkers to go wild and in extreme cases, to shutdown when the indicators were used.

Cheers

[Geotrecaz]

Originally posted by drivesafe
Hi Geotrecaz, don’t know if you have had your problem solved yet.

If not, check out a Brilite supplier.

Apparently they have a device that you install on both the left and right turn signal wires and it may fix your problem.
Thanks for the info drivesafe. We haven't resolved the problem yet, but have been told that LRA will have a fix available sometime (this month they said), but at a cost of some $200 per unit plus one and a half hours of labour at a LR dealer. Having already spent hundreds of dollars (replacing LED's with festoons/installation and accommodation while waiting to get on the road in Melbourne), we are reluctant to have to outlay another $300+ before we can reinstall the LED's.
Have spent some time searching for the Brilite (or Brylite?) fix, we can't find anything on the net. Do you have any more details that may help us?
Thanks,
Geotrecaz

[drivesafe]

Hi Geotrecaz, I’ll make a phone call in the morning and get some part numbers for you.

Cheers

[Geotrecaz]

Originally posted by drivesafe
Hi Geotrecaz, I’ll make a phone call in the morning and get some part numbers for you.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif Great, thanks drivesafe!

[drivesafe]

Hi Geotrecaz, I think I have to correct some miss information. :oops:

First off, it should have been Brytax not Brilite. :oops:

Next, after an informative conversation with me supplier, it turns out there are different fixes for different problems and thanks to some crossed wires, the original device I post about is NOT the one you need. :?

There is a device called a Trailer Distribution Box which IS most likely the solution to your problem.

The Brytax part number for the box is B1870 and they retail for about $120 to $130 which is not that much cheaper than what you have been looking at. :evil:

If this turns out to be what you are after, let me know as I might be able to get a cheaper trade price. :idea:

Cheers.

[p38arover]

Originally posted by drivesafe
First off, it should have been Brytax not Brilite. :oops:


Brytax or Britax? The latter is a well known UK supplier of auto accessories? Brytax is an Indian auto electrical company.

Ron

[drivesafe]

You noking mi spelding. :evil:

Thanks mate and yes it is the latter, Britax. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Cheers. :wink:

[p38arover]

Originally posted by drivesafe
You noking mi spelding. :evil:

Thanks mate and yes it is the latter, Britax. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Cheers. :wink:

Not this time style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif - there just happened to be two electronic suppliers with similar names.

Ron

[bbb]

i had my disco3 in for service at Trivett Classic Service Centre in Waterloo and spoke with the auto electrician there.
he has made a box that fixes the issue - he demo'd it with led lights - showing the before and after.
he told me LR have been chasing him up to get the box running to resolve the issue ... but the problem is as above - the box is going to sell for just under $200 and the cost of installation.

now you'd think that LR would actually fit these on request to resolve our issue ... but no .... you spend $100k on a car, and you just keep spending to fix their annoying oversights

:x

[Geotrecaz]

Thanks for the info bbb. Our dealer in SA tells us that there is a fix due in 2 weeks (which they told us months ago), but like you we are annoyed at the costs involved, yet it appears their dealers are still not aware of the problem, so it's still "buyer beware" for Disco 3 owners who intend to tow trailers with LED's.
Our latest try was the Britax unit, which still didn't work. A NARVA rep thought he could solve the problem for us using diodes which they use for their LED lights on other vehicles, but that didn't work using our lights or theirs - apparently there is something really unique, so it looks like we have to pay through the nose for a fix.
Once resolved we will vent our frustration on this issue through letters to the editor of 4WD publications.

[p38arover]

Originally posted by bbb
i had my disco3 in for service at Trivett Classic Service Centre in Waterloo and spoke with the auto electrician there.
he has made a box that fixes the issue - he demo'd it with led lights - showing the before and after.

That would be Lee (who also makes the Rovair EAS control system for the P38A.

Some may have met him at the LROC Expo at Penrith.

Ron

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">if its a pulse they are trying to iron out of the system youd think they would
use capacitors instead of diodes.....?</span>

[tombraider]

Originally posted by disconut
I had a look at that idea for the Defender. Need a very small resistor like 1.5 ohms or something like that. Then the wattage of the resistor was another issue. You get into putting a bundle in parallel to get it right.
I have given up for the moment as I would like to do it without adding resistors. I am not sure how the buses and trucks work this out.
Any auto leckies out there?
Trev.

There are low current draw relays available to suit the LED systems.

For the trailer link on a D3 there is a special type of trailer wiring system that electrically isolated the vehicle from the trailer. Using the vehicle to activate a solid state switching system which then triggers the lights in the trailer direct from a 12v feed. This is also used in many Eurocars, Jag, Bmw etc...

The D2 will not have an issue except for (as previously stated) losing the flashing trailer light due to lack of load.

Fitting resistors to conteract the issue is counter productive leds provide power savings, fitting the resistors increases consumption in the way of heat (resistance) which is no longer being used to produce something worthwhile (light).

Cheers
Mike

[retiredbob]

Hooobluddyorray

I have been following this thread with anticipation hoping that there was some remedy. And now have the answer.

Have just had a "PulseShunt" device, manufactured by a fellow in Mittagong NSW, fitted into my Disco3. It works perfectly and now I do not have to change any led lights in my van. It can also be switched back for normal lights etc.

I will add the full details and contacts if anyone interested!!

I have no affiliation with the designer and manufacturer except to have had the device fitted.

[p38arover]

Originally posted by retiredbob
Hooobluddyorray

I have been following this thread with anticipation hoping that there was some remedy. And now have the answer.

Have just had a "PulseShunt" device, manufactured by a fellow in Mittagong NSW, fitted into my Disco3. It works perfectly and now I do not have to change any led lights in my van. It can also be switched back for normal lights etc.

I will add the full details and contacts if anyone interested!!

I have no affiliation with the designer and manufacturer except to have had the device fitted.

That would be Lee from RovAir? He's an elecci/engineer with Trivetts (I think).

Ron

[retiredbob]

Yes Ron

Didn't want to mention the name but you are correct

Regards

[drivesafe]

Hi retiredbob, any idea of price and how much work is involved in fitting it.

Cheers.

[retiredbob]

Drivesafe, fitting was very easy for me - Lee installed it and it took approx 20 mins and he knows it back the front. Knowing very little about veh electrics it would have taken me much longer.

Suggest you contact Lee at labtronx@hinet.net.au <labtronx@hinet.net.au> for pricing

Cheers

[Muzza]

I have designed a circuit that is built into a short cable that can be simply plugged in between the trailer and the D3. Its like an adaptor cable with some extra bits in the middle. It stops the flashing and tells the D3 to do the other things it needs to do when the trailer is on.

Cheers

Muzza

[Timj]

So Muzza is this something you are going to give us the details of so we can make our own or is it something you are planning to sell?

TimJ.

[Muzza]

I have made several and sold them from referrals from the dealer. I build them with a few metres of cable so they can be built into a trailer or fitted with plugs and sockets to go in line with existing trailer plugs like an adaptor would.

[Boofrmb]

Would like to know, if this is the same on the Disco 4, was looking at replacing the lights on my camper to led. did remember when I had the disco 3, I was told you could buy a interface box to fix it, but could never find it.

Cheers

Rob

[wallabybob]

Hi there


I am also having this problem with my camper trailer and my D3. The rear indicators are flashing all the time. I will try LRA to see what they say but will also take this info with me to my local auto electrician. Thanks for the heads up guys. Oh and any further idea about this, please let me know.


Cheers


Wallabybob

[Meken]

Hi there


I am also having this problem with my camper trailer and my D3. The rear indicators are flashing all the time. I will try LRA to see what they say but will also take this info with me to my local auto electrician. Thanks for the heads up guys. Oh and any further idea about this, please let me know.


Cheers


Wallabybob


Search linear electronic design - plug & play solution - stops the pulse width modulation of the circuits illuminating the leds