Diesel with LPG kit??

[sittingbison]

Gents,
trying to get a some useful info on whether to install an LPG kit to a HDTV2.7

The type is before the turbo. The claim is that it increases the diesel performance and economy by burning all the diesel fuel

I have been previously advised that this is not a good option, it will wreck the motor top end. However this was from someone with a vested interest, so I would like to know if others are doing this or if it is a terrible idea as advised

cheers
bison

[bee utey]

LPG enhancement works by adding LPG somewhere in the intake stream, the exact location depends on the type of kit. The LPG will remain under its self ignition point regardless where its injected so carries no risks until its set alight by the diesel igniting. The LPG acts as an accelerant and makes the diesel burn faster and that extracts more energy from the diesel. It only works up to around 25% replacement of diesel use by liquid volume, ie litres measures at the pump. If you add LPG at full power then your engine will have more power. Clearly any mod that produces more power has its own risks and your system should have exhaust temperature monitoring to avoid over cooking it. I've not done a 2.7 V6 but I've had no trouble on other engines that I've done.

The cost savings are at best around 10% if used conservatively so you'll never pay off the full price of a gas kit unless you cover huge distances. If you burn out an engine by ramping up the LPG and ignoring the danger signals it'll cost you a lot more. For performance only it may be loads cheaper just to chip it and play with the inter cooler.

[Tombie]

And consider the tanks intrusion on the vehicle and added mass towards GVM...

Remapping will get more benefit without the challenges of housing an LPG cylinder and associated components.

[sittingbison]

muchos gracias :)

[Beery]

And consider the tanks intrusion on the vehicle and added mass towards GVM...

Remapping will get more benefit without the challenges of housing an LPG cylinder and associated components.

I was going to say something along those lines too. An Allisport intercooler or similar would give an improvement with minimal interference with the rest of the vehicle.

Having seen my 2.2 puma intake temps go down from 50 degrees above ambient to 10 degrees above ambient, I would highly recommend it.

[shining]

I had diesel gas on my old D1. Gave me increased power or better fuel economy. There are extra costs with rego checks and extra time at two bowsers when filling up. Given the space limitations in a D1 (small tank between the chassis rails) I had to fill the lpg tank whenever I got diesel. On balance I wouldn't spend the money on it again. I did it because I needed extra power for a long trip towing a camping trailer.

[Disco-tastic]

I had diesel gas on my old D1. Gave me increased power or better fuel economy. There are extra costs with rego checks and extra time at two bowsers when filling up. Given the space limitations in a D1 (small tank between the chassis rails) I had to fill the lpg tank whenever I got diesel. On balance I wouldn't spend the money on it again. I did it because I needed extra power for a long trip towing a camping trailer.

I had a D1 with gas too. Made a huge difference - turbo lag without the gas on was awful! I loved it on the old 300Tdi. I reckon it was at least 20% more power.

My 2c:
I have heard the system is not as effective on modern diesels due to the much more complicated fuel system and computer management. I wouldnt put gas on a newer diesel - as the others have said you money is better spent on a remap or new intercooler.

Cheers

Dan

[RobA]

Our engineer has had to pull down around 15 motors over the last few years to investigate top end damage which was catastrophic to just terminal. All had gas conversions. The gas changes the combustion temperatures incredibly and most diesels and particularly new ones are not designed to operate with such wide variables. As well lots of damage to catalytic converters/DPF due to the higher exhaust temperatures.

Suggest consideration of a conservative chip as an option if you need more power but be careful. Mate has one on his D3 and it does some very weird things particularly when towing

Rob

[lambrover]

I would avoid chips, getting the ECU remapped is a better option, its safer

[PAT303]

Our engineer has had to pull down around 15 motors over the last few years to investigate top end damage which was catastrophic to just terminal. All had gas conversions. The gas changes the combustion temperatures incredibly and most diesels and particularly new ones are not designed to operate with such wide variables. As well lots of damage to catalytic converters/DPF due to the higher exhaust temperatures.

Suggest consideration of a conservative chip as an option if you need more power but be careful. Mate has one on his D3 and it does some very weird things particularly when towing

Rob

My Tdi has run LPG/Diesel for 8 years and has never overheated or had a single issue. Pat

[85 county]

Our engineer has had to pull down around 15 motors over the last few years to investigate top end damage which was catastrophic to just terminal. All had gas conversions. The gas changes the combustion temperatures incredibly and most diesels and particularly new ones are not designed to operate with such wide variables. As well lots of damage to catalytic converters/DPF due to the higher exhaust temperatures.

Suggest consideration of a conservative chip as an option if you need more power but be careful. Mate has one on his D3 and it does some very weird things particularly when towing

Rob

sounds like bollocks to me, plenty of 300 tdi 4 bd1 T's running around SA with LPG fumigation, and since they all seem to have Lower EGT's when LPG is turned on and opposed to being turned off.
the same rubbish story is repeated often by people who all know some one whose best mate knows his second cousins neighbour is an expert

[lambrover]

You guys are all bagging out RobA for a post if you read it is about moden diesels having issues not 200 and 300 tdi's or 4BD1's which is what alot of you are saying you have had no dramas with. Older diesels and moden diesels are different. I wouldn't put gas on a modern diesel, i would get the ECU remapped if I wanted more power.

[PAT303]

We are not bagging out RobA at all,many of use have LPG/Diesel vehicles and all of us have heard the stories,over and over. Pat

[bee utey]

Clearly there is a problem with some modern diesels if you add too much LPG and forget to add EGT monitoring to prevent engine damage. The Peel controller for example has an EGT probe directly wired to the control unit to shut down the LPG flow whenever exhaust temps reach a set limit.

Diesel LPG Injection (http://www.peelinstruments.com.au/page20.html)

Truck quality diesels like the Isuzu 3.9 have enormous reserves of strength, whereas modern light/medium duty diesels like the 2.7 have limited head room for extra power. Like I wrote earlier in this thread, the important thing is to is to know what your engine is doing and not drive like an idiot. I suspect that there are more idiots buying new vehicles and blowing them up than there are buyers of 10 year old vehicles and wanting to keep them for years.:)

[RobA]

sounds like bollocks to me, plenty of 300 tdi 4 bd1 T's running around SA with LPG fumigation, and since they all seem to have Lower EGT's when LPG is turned on and opposed to being turned off.
the same rubbish story is repeated often by people who all know some one whose best mate knows his second cousins neighbour is an expert

I did not suggest the engines were LR and if you want to take on the technical ability of our certified practising engineer I will be happy to introduce you. My information was provided in regard to LGP conversions and diesel engines nothing more. I can assure you the bright blue line around each piston at TDC was without doubt due to extremely high combustion temperatures. Every engine is different in many ways but the consistent finding has been this can and does happen with all engines up to and including direct injection. Older engines are not without risk as we have seen even non-turbo's have failures.

My simple advice based on that is to explore options carefully and that is based on what we know as fact

Rob

[85 county]

I did not suggest the engines were LR and if you want to take on the technical ability of our certified practising engineer I will be happy to introduce you. My information was provided in regard to LGP conversions and diesel engines nothing more. I can assure you the bright blue line around each piston at TDC was without doubt due to extremely high combustion temperatures. Every engine is different in many ways but the consistent finding has been this can and does happen with all engines up to and including direct injection. Older engines are not without risk as we have seen even non-turbo's have failures.



Rob
i am more than happy to take on the technical ability of our certified practising engineer, bluing is a temp related problem but is more indicative of a frailer of piston oil squirter, so thus it is a modern motor problem.

the Fact remains that LPG fumigation lowers EGT, however you are stating LPG conversion of diesel motors which is a totality different game.

this thread is about LPG fumigation, so what exactly are you talking about?

lastly, how can you claim

My simple advice based on that is to explore options carefully and that is based on what we know as fact

when all you are actually doing is repeating a story you herd form some one else? that's the same as saying my mate had a LR and its was crap so all land-rovers are crap

[LandyAndy]

Keep it civil thanks fellas.
Andrew

[bee utey]

I should point out that EGT's are only lower on LPG if you back off the diesel use to maintain the same output power. Using it to increase full load power will increase EGT's , the question of how much it does this compared to diesel increase only is an interesting one, but the chances are that its a small difference.

For example, a stocky Pajero 2.8 TD that I converted a few years ago was fitted with an EGT gauge so I took it up the SE freeway. This is a long constant gradient. At 100km/h in 5th with the cruise engaged switching on the LPG saw a drop in EGTs from 650C to 625C. In the process the accelerator pedal moved back to reduce diesel use to maintain the same power output. Switching the lpg off again saw a return to 650C. Had I nailed the accelerator instead,not only would EGTs have risen but it would have gone much faster than the speed limit on that stretch.

Oh and 5 years later the engine is still going fine as the owner isn't stupid and keeps an eye on the gauges.

[p38arover]

How many of the LPG fumigation systems out there monitor EGT and other engine parameters and feed it back into a fumigation ECU? Not many?

I believe that the one developed by Diesel Gas Technologies/GasTek does. A few people on here have them on their 4WDs.

[DiscoDB]

How many of the LPG fumigation systems out there monitor EGT and other engine parameters and feed it back into a fumigation ECU? Not many?

I believe that the one developed by Diesel Gas Technologies/GasTek does. A few people on here have them on their 4WDs.

And as the original question was around fitting to a 2.7 engine, has anyone actually fitted an EGT gauge and knows what actual temps the TDV6 actually hits? Given the increased power and torque over the slightly smaller TD5, I am guessing it is pretty high to start with but have seen no data to support this suspicion. An upgraded intercooler would probably be a good idea if doing anything to increase the power on the TDV6.

[85 county]

I should point out that EGT's are only lower on LPG if you back off the diesel use to maintain the same output power. Using it to increase full load power will increase EGT's , the question of how much it does this compared to diesel increase only is an interesting one, but the chances are that its a small difference.

For example, a stocky Pajero 2.8 TD that I converted a few years ago was fitted with an EGT gauge so I took it up the SE freeway. This is a long constant gradient. At 100km/h in 5th with the cruise engaged switching on the LPG saw a drop in EGTs from 650C to 625C. In the process the accelerator pedal moved back to reduce diesel use to maintain the same power output. Switching the lpg off again saw a return to 650C. Had I nailed the accelerator instead,not only would EGTs have risen but it would have gone much faster than the speed limit on that stretch.

Oh and 5 years later the engine is still going fine as the owner isn't stupid and keeps an eye on the gauges.

correct, but it is the diesel that ups EGT. on the BD NA and turbo as well as the 300 tdi's all your conversions and one BD that is not. on the same stretch of road.

turn on the lpg at any fuel setting drops EGTs and the vehicle accelerates.

a 300 tdi loaded with a camper trailer, in 4rd gear hammer down at 70klms blowing smoke and just holding its own, egts at 720 and climbing. turn on the LPG the rig accelerates to the govanor EGTs drop to 685, and of course further when you hit the govanor and back of the hammer

Dad and daughter, hang out around greenacers, dads RR, daughters D4, daughter has a wizbang ecu controlled LPG fumigation. Dad is not so sure so i watching. the D4 now get an additional 240 klms per tank for the use of 11 ltrs of LPG around town, the daughter gets her kicks in dragging of dunny doors at the lights.--- NB she is blond

[85 county]

And as the original question was around fitting to a 2.7 engine, has anyone actually fitted an EGT gauge and knows what actual temps the TDV6 actually hits? Given the increased power and torque over the slightly smaller TD5, I am guessing it is pretty high to start with but have seen no data to support this suspicion. An upgraded intercooler would probably be a good idea if doing anything to increase the power on the TDV6.

the TDv6 seems to get to higher egts quicker then holds it there, they seem to hover around 600 all the time. i suspect this is due to the EGR valve. not only the heat that provides but it also produced a richer burn and thus higher egt values.

my thoughts are, based partly on what i have been told about some of the issues with modern diesels and LPG fumigation. it all seems to be based around the EGR valve and what it is supposed to do. this also efects the inter-cooler, or the fitting of a larger one.

the realy modern diesels do not want to run lower EGT at any load. this is to cut the production of bad emissions gas and well as a more complete burn.
the EGR valve lets exorst gas into the inlet manifold to displace oxygen in the combustion chamber. thus producing a richer burn. it also add heat into the combustion chamber, to produce a hotter burn.

while this works well with diesel along it is not advantage when adding lpg fumigation. the LPG drops the EGT, the cars ECU then trys to compensate by opening the EGR valve and letting in more hot exorst gass or in some cases reducing boost. the same scenario is applicable to a larger inter-cooler.

this is my logic based on a post 2007 TDv6. IE if the 10 digit of your vin is a 6 or lower. my above statement is not applicable.

so in addition to fumigation and modified map would be needed. one that shuts off the EGR valve, then you would receve the full advantage of a larger intercooler and only after that could you look at a smart lpg fumigation system

[bee utey]

turn on the lpg at any fuel setting drops EGTs and the vehicle accelerates.

a 300 tdi loaded with a camper trailer, in 4rd gear hammer down at 70klms blowing smoke and just holding its own, egts at 720 and climbing. turn on the LPG the rig accelerates to the govanor EGTs drop to 685, and of course further when you hit the govanor and back of the hammer


yes and that is a function of the governor cutting diesel. Now try it with a couple of tons more up the freeway and see if the egts drop.

[85 county]

yes and that is a function of the governor cutting diesel. Now try it with a couple of tons more up the freeway and see if the egts drop.


yes the governor cuts the fuel so the egt drops but not at 70klm the governor is at 110 klm. so full fuel at 70klm tun on the LPG and egts drop. hit the governor and there is an additional drop but this second drop is due to fuel being reduced. only the first drop is due to LPG fumigation

[bee utey]

yes the governor cuts the fuel so the egt drops but not at 70klm the governor is at 110 klm. so full fuel at 70klm tun on the LPG and egts drop. hit the governor and there is an additional drop but this second drop is due to fuel being reduced. only the first drop is due to LPG fumigation
Well that's the opposite what I've observed across a large number of fumigation installs I've done with electronic EGT gauges. We must have different kinds of eyes. Not that it matters to the OP in any case.

[PAT303]

I drive down to Mandurah for Uni each week and sitting on 110 with straight diesel my Tdi sits on 460-480 degree's,using LPG it sits on 400-430 with a 3rd less throttle.I have just fitted a 2 psi switch gas switch from the original 6 psi one to get the gas on earlier and the turbo lag is almost gone,not TDCi gone but going around a run-a-bout doing 15kms/hr in third and it pulls away smoothly. Pat

[85 county]

Well that's the opposite what I've observed across a large number of fumigation installs I've done with electronic EGT gauges. We must have different kinds of eyes. Not that it matters to the OP in any case.

ok interesting, 3 of them are your installs and on the same bit of road

[lambrover]

85 County, a few posts ago you said "I am more than happy to take on the technical ability of our certified practising engineer"

I'm no engineer but I do know you are wrong about EGR's. Exhaust gases are introduced to reduce combustion temperatures to keep NOX down, it's an emission control measure.

If you are recycling "facts" of forums it's best to make sure they are actualy correct.

[85 county]

85 County, a few posts ago you said "I am more than happy to take on the technical ability of our certified practising engineer"

I'm no engineer but I do know you are wrong about EGR's. Exhaust gases are introduced to reduce combustion temperatures to keep NOX down, it's an emission control measure.

If you are recycling "facts" of forums it's best to make sure they are actualy correct.

Hay guess what i did at uni that was after doing my trade.

Exhaust Gases are introduced into the combustion chamber to displace air/ oxygen, under lighter load conditions.

and since we are talking diesel and not petrol motors. lean burn is colder rich burn is hotter.

by displacing oxygen for the same fuel given we are creating a richer burn, IE a hotter burn. Plus the actual heat from the Exhaust gas itself which i think we can agree is a bit hotter than ambient air even compressed air ( turbo)

ok coverd that, NOX or nitrogen dioxide or NO2, we are told that this is an emissions nasty, not going to argue with that, so where is it coming from. not from diesel, that's a hydrocarbon, hydrogen and carbon. nope it comes from air, air being mainly nitrogen Oxygen and carbon.

so basic, make air hot and under pressure it swaps atoms about. IE the oxygen not burnt by the combustion is now hot enough to bond with the nitrogen thus making NOX.

simple solution, reduce the amount of oxygen and nitrogen in the combustion chamber when there is not enough fuel to burn up all the oxygen. so fit an egr valve.

and EGR valve will not reduce combustion chamber temperatures, it makes it hotter, considering that the egr valve is only open on light loads its not that hot anyway. as i have said its job is to reduce the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber. IE richen up the burn

the opposite is also true, more air colder burn, ask the tubo guys or have a look at the izusu threads. or any diesel turbo tuning stuff

[85 county]

If you are recycling "facts" of forums it's best to make sure they are actualy correct.

sorry what did you say??

[lambrover]

I have read your comments and apologize for the asumption you were recycling facts.

When i went through trade school we were told the introduction of exhaust gases was to reduce combustion temperatures so NOX wasn't produced.

What you have writen makes sense but is contradictory to what I was taught, It's been a while since I had to study but hate being wrong so now need to study up on that a bit.

[komaterpillar]

When i went to trade school we were taught EGR was to raise intake air temps. I remember this cause at the time it baffled me as to why you would cool intake air with a long intake tract and gigantic intercooler only to reheat it with exhaust gas!?!

[komaterpillar]

I worked for a transport company that ran gas fumigation systems on their trucks, running 620 signatures. The mob that developed the systems came out and did a training day with our workshop. The gas was injected pre-turbo wich gave a more uniform mix. This system had egt feedback to its own ecu and also was on a boost switch so gas was only switched on under load (can't remember what pressure).
Anyway long story short, they showed us a heap of thermal imaging of the exhaust side of the head and inside the exhaust ports. Apparently the introduction of LPG made for a more complete and quicker burn INSIDE EACH POT and the flame front from combustion now didn't extend out into the exhaust port so far hence lowering egt's. Apparently this was also one of the reasons for gaining more power with better econemy as more energy from the fuel was being utilised within the cylinder before the exhaust valve opened rather than being sent out through the exhaust as heat. The quicker burn also apparantely made peak cylinder pressure sooner after the diesel injection occured so more of the energy was available with the piston higher in the bore so it then utilised more of the energy available before the exhaust valve opened.

Anyway thats just what i remember from the course we did with the gas system developers

[PAT303]

Well going from what learnt everyone is on the same page it's just our face to face verbal skills are not matched by our computer typing ones :D. Pat

[PAT303]

Even I screwed up, it's supposed to be ''from what I learnt''. Pat

[85 county]

I worked for a transport company that ran gas fumigation systems on their trucks, running 620 signatures. The mob that developed the systems came out and did a training day with our workshop. The gas was injected pre-turbo wich gave a more uniform mix. This system had egt feedback to its own ecu and also was on a boost switch so gas was only switched on under load (can't remember what pressure).
Anyway long story short, they showed us a heap of thermal imaging of the exhaust side of the head and inside the exhaust ports. Apparently the introduction of LPG made for a more complete and quicker burn INSIDE EACH POT and the flame front from combustion now didn't extend out into the exhaust port so far hence lowering egt's.

90% correct. diesel is only about 85% burnt in the combustion process. so its not heat out though the valve its unburnt fuel out the valve. fuel that is still burning . it is this still burning fuel that raises EGT. fuel finds itself in cold-spots within the chamber it is this fuel that is slower to burn or is not burnt and passes out though the valve.
it is the burning of this fule that gives more power. that's why if you add 1 Kw's worth of LPG you get 3 Kw of more power ( for example)
so not heat fule. a small detail.

Apparently this was also one of the reasons for gaining more power with better econemy as more energy from the fuel was being utilised within the cylinder before the exhaust valve opened rather than being sent out through the exhaust as heat. The quicker burn also apparantely made peak cylinder pressure sooner after the diesel injection occured so more of the energy was available with the piston higher in the bore so it then utilised more of the energy available before the exhaust valve opened.

Anyway thats just what i remember from the course we did with the gas system developers

Good

[85 county]

CAT went in a different direction, bi turbo, throttle body's, and extremely high pressure oil over diesel injection. IE no EGR valve

[lambrover]

CAT went in a different direction, bi turbo, throttle body's, and extremely high pressure oil over diesel injection. IE no EGR valve

Are you referring to HEUI injection.

From memory these injectors where able to inject multiple times (ECU controlled) so rather than dumping bulk fuel in one injection it was broken up into multiple injections, this aloud the first smaller injection to ignite and build a flame front, the next injection was bigger and ignited quicker as it was assisted by the first injection which would already be lit. The last injection was a very small amount of fuel to reduce combustion chamber temps.

Now with even newer injectors and common rail systems the injection metering can be broken up to 4 or 5 separate injections.

Is this correct? or have I been led up the garden path on that as well.

[komaterpillar]

diesel is only about 85% burnt in the combustion process. so its not heat out though the valve its unburnt fuel out the valve. fuel that is still burning . it is this still burning fuel that raises EGT. fuel finds itself in cold-spots within the chamber it is this fuel that is slower to burn or is not burnt and passes out though the valve.

Isn't that what i said? I said the flame front extends out into the exhaust port. What does a flame front need? Fuel. Implying that there is unburnt fuel exiting the pot still burning. Why the need to correct me on something and then give the exact same information in your answer?

[komaterpillar]

This is turning into a ****ing comp of who thinks they can drop more technical terms about diesel engines. Like so many other threads on this forum....

[85 county]

Isn't that what i said? I said the flame front extends out into the exhaust port. What does a flame front need? Fuel. Implying that there is unburnt fuel exiting the pot still burning. Why the need to correct me on something and then give the exact same information in your answer?

yes to you its is the same, you use the word " implying" so to me yes. to you yes. but to other people maybe not.

you said flame front

i said burn

to you and me same thing, to some other people not

my post was not intended to criticise you. i did say your post was good, and what i wrote was a small detail

sorry if you are offended

[85 county]

Are you referring to HEUI injection.

From memory these injectors where able to inject multiple times (ECU controlled) so rather than dumping bulk fuel in one injection it was broken up into multiple injections, this aloud the first smaller injection to ignite and build a flame front, the next injection was bigger and ignited quicker as it was assisted by the first injection which would already be lit. The last injection was a very small amount of fuel to reduce combustion chamber temps.

Now with even newer injectors and common rail systems the injection metering can be broken up to 4 or 5 separate injections.

Is this correct? or have I been led up the garden path on that as well.

no quite correct but 1/2 the story. Cat developed the HEUI injection at a time when mechanical injection was the norm. so in one way you could call it a transition system, or the basis for modern common rail systems.

tghe elecrical/ ecu side of HEUI is practically the same as modern common rail systems today. a few little differences but there is not much in it. it is the ecu that controls the injector patten or number and timing of injections.

the real difference is in how the Diesel pressure is produced. in a common rail system the diesel pump produced the pressure and the rail is always under pressure.

in the HEUI, the diesel pump is low pressure, say only about 7-12 psi. the actual injection pressure comes from a second Oil pump, that takes oil from the sump at high pressure, this oil is pumped ver a rail to the top of the injectors. there is a piston eltrocly fired like normal. but the piston being much bigger Dia than the diesel injectors piston increases the pressure again

the pressure from the dedicated oil pump and the injector pistons produce diesel pressure or injection pressure, many times higher than a common rail system.

[85 county]

When i went to trade school we were taught EGR was to raise intake air temps. I remember this cause at the time it baffled me as to why you would cool intake air with a long intake tract and gigantic intercooler only to reheat it with exhaust gas!?!

your thinking is correct, the 2.2 puma has a heat exchanger in the block to cool the EGR gasses before it enters the inlet. that's 1 example

[lambrover]

no quite correct but 1/2 the story. Cat developed the HEUI injection at a time when mechanical injection was the norm. so in one way you could call it a transition system, or the basis for modern common rail systems.

tghe elecrical/ ecu side of HEUI is practically the same as modern common rail systems today. a few little differences but there is not much in it. it is the ecu that controls the injector patten or number and timing of injections.

the real difference is in how the Diesel pressure is produced. in a common rail system the diesel pump produced the pressure and the rail is always under pressure.

in the HEUI, the diesel pump is low pressure, say only about 7-12 psi. the actual injection pressure comes from a second Oil pump, that takes oil from the sump at high pressure, this oil is pumped ver a rail to the top of the injectors. there is a piston eltrocly fired like normal. but the piston being much bigger Dia than the diesel injectors piston increases the pressure again

the pressure from the dedicated oil pump and the injector pistons produce diesel pressure or injection pressure, many times higher than a common rail system.
I know HEUI was pre common rail, and I do remember what you are talking about, an intensifier piston in the injector, I think it was called.

As an apprentice we rebuilt a couple of CAT 3126 marine engines.

[85 county]

I know HEUI was pre common rail, and I do remember what you are talking about, an intensifier piston in the injector, I think it was called.

As an apprentice we rebuilt a couple of CAT 3126 marine engines.

yes thats the one, very high oil pressure, about 2000-4000 psi. then the added "intensifier" as you call it. a facter of 8mm2 over 0.4mm2 ( of the top of my head)


Ford power, Isuzu also used in the the 3ltr jakaroo etc. but that motor was a bit problematic for a number of reasons

AHHH CAT 3126 shove one of them in a 130 with an AT545 behind it.

[lambrover]

I loved the sound of them spooling up

[Disco-tastic]

I worked for a transport company that ran gas fumigation systems on their trucks, running 620 signatures. The mob that developed the systems came out and did a training day with our workshop. The gas was injected pre-turbo wich gave a more uniform mix. This system had egt feedback to its own ecu and also was on a boost switch so gas was only switched on under load (can't remember what pressure).
Anyway long story short, they showed us a heap of thermal imaging of the exhaust side of the head and inside the exhaust ports. Apparently the introduction of LPG made for a more complete and quicker burn INSIDE EACH POT and the flame front from combustion now didn't extend out into the exhaust port so far hence lowering egt's. Apparently this was also one of the reasons for gaining more power with better econemy as more energy from the fuel was being utilised within the cylinder before the exhaust valve opened rather than being sent out through the exhaust as heat. The quicker burn also apparantely made peak cylinder pressure sooner after the diesel injection occured so more of the energy was available with the piston higher in the bore so it then utilised more of the energy available before the exhaust valve opened.

Anyway thats just what i remember from the course we did with the gas system developers

I dont know that much about engines, but doea this mean that peak cylinder pressure is increased? And if so, what effect would that have on the head, valves head bolts etc?

Komaterpillar, did they give any info on cylinder pressures? From what ive read here and elsewhere, it doesn't seem as though it's the EGT is causing problems, but rather problems with the head.

Like I said, I don't know that much about the ins and outs of motors and whats good or bad as far as fuel mix and egr etc. Just wanting to learn a bit more.

Cheers

Dan

[TerryO]

So gentlemen if the EGR on a 2.7 TDV6 is blanked off does that Lower or increase exhaust gas temperatures?

[85 county]

So gentlemen if the EGR on a 2.7 TDV6 is blanked off does that Lower or increase exhaust gas temperatures?

lower, but having said that the valve will only be open on light throttle at light cruising speeds. it will be closed at high loads when EGTs clime. so on a system like the early 2.7 you would not notice much

[jonesy63]

lower, but having said that the valve will only be open on light throttle at light cruising speeds. it will be closed at high loads when EGTs clime. so on a system like the early 2.7 you would not notice much

My MAP sensor gets gunked up too often... so I suspect it would depend also on driving style (old granny vs revhead) and use (highway-partial throttle cruising vs WOT accelerating in traffic).

[sittingbison]

thanks gents, a 'robust' ;) discussion giving plenty of food for thought

I have decided to go with a remap and allisport intercooler hopefully delivering best possible engine performance combined with longevity

cheers
bison

[85 county]

My MAP sensor gets gunked up too often... so I suspect it would depend also on driving style (old granny vs revhead) and use (highway-partial throttle cruising vs WOT accelerating in traffic).

if your Map is getting fouled up, i would be thinking volume of air and air quality. where are you driving and the condition and quality of your air filter. i believe ( think) the EGR valve feeds post Map