Defender TD5 Service Schedule

[CraigE]

Has any one got a definative service schedule for a Defender TD5? The Land Rover doccumentation is a little conflicting depending on what you read. The hand book is next to useless and the Rave and other doccumentation conflicts somewhat. Mostly what I am after is all oil change durations other than engine oil.
Gearbox oil is written as 20,000kms on Rave and 40,000kms in other LR bookwork.
Transfer Case is written as 40,000kms in Rave and 20,000kms in other LR bookwork..
Diffs are written as 40,000kms in Rave and 20,000 in others LR bookwork.
Currently I have been changing all at 20,000kms but after changing the oil again today, the oil was still like new and had not appeared to have started to break down at all. After reading 3 lots of advised schedules I was a little confused and wondered if I was changing it too often. I know hard muddy or dusty offroad work changes the frequency as well.
Other items I am interested in are the fuel filter with one saying 20,000kms and two others saying 40,000kms.
Also the rotor is saying 20,000kms and 10,000kms and filter changes at 60,000kms. Can the oil filter really be left safely for this sort of kms?
Thanks

[rick130]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Also the rotor is saying 20,000kms and 10,000kms and filter changes at 60,000kms. Can the oil filter really be left safely for this sort of kms?[/b][/quote]

remember that the centrifuge does most of the cleaning. If you cut open the full flow filter at 60,000km, I'm guessing there would be very little in there.
With conventional (cheap/er) full flow filters, what usually gives out with age and heat are the anti drain back valve, which is generally made of a nitrile material and hardens, and the cellulose based media, which can also harden.
If they (Land Rover) are specifying 60,000km, the filter would probably be using a silicon anti drain back valve and a combination cellulose/glass (synthetic) or straight synthetic media.

FWIW, a large truck operator and consultant I've often talked to runs the large Mann-Hummel (who make the Td5 centrifugal filter) centrifuges on his trucks, and used to use Donaldson ELF (synthetic media) full flow filters and Mobil Delvac 1.
His fleet average oil drain interval is 100,000km. They would cut the Donaldson filters open and they were clean, the centrifugal filter would have a solid mat of debris in it. They stopped using the conventional filters and are now using cleanable 30 micron stainless mesh baskets.
MTU Detroit recently stripped one of his engines @ 1,000,000km and all measurements were within new spec.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">look at how many kms they do in a week...
they may be changing oil every couple of months....


an engine on a freeway travelling at top speed and doing low revs wont need oil changes as one running around town with stop/start and going through the whole rev range all the time....
in plain english...the wheels may be doing 100 000 kms but the engine may only feel like it has done 20 000kms.....

all gearbox, diff and transfer case oils are supposed to be changed every two years(40 000kms) on normal driving.....
if you use your car off road i would be doing them at 20 000kms or once a year.....


i change my oil and filters every 5 000kms....

different manufacturers recommend longer and longer intervals between services to make thir cars sound better as in they dont need regular servicing and maintenance....
and its true...a new car will go for three years without an oil change or service.....may not last much longer though...but hey...the warranty is expired and the dealer doesnt worry any more....
also....quite a lot of people get rid of their cars every three years cos thats when problems start...
what they dont realise is that these problems start because of lack of maintenance....

the theory behind all this is ...
i have a new car to drive ever three years.....
i havent really lost much money on the new price as i save that on repairs if i were to keep the car....
i will trade the old one in before it depreciates too much....
and various other reasons...


if you plan to keep your car....the longer it has fresh oil in it the longer it should last...


did i bore you?</span>

[hiline]

zook cant even read your last post 8O 8O 8O


i never as i dont service my car style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif :wink: :wink:

[seqfisho]

I always thought 40K was a fair interval for drive line lubes, only less Km's if heavy towing or lots of offroad with water etc

Glen

[CraigE]

Nice colour text Zook, had to darken my screen to read. Points noted. Was really just wondering why different LR texts recommend different intervals. I have just been led to believe that the servicing schedule for the TD5 has been revised in the last year or two. I would much rather do it more often than cause any damage even for the following owner. Usually even by the manufacturer schedule I usually at least take of a 3rd and for engine oil half their spec. Thanks.

[kaistuff]

Originally posted by DEFENDERZOOK
look at how many kms they do in a week...
they may be changing oil every couple of months....


an engine on a freeway travelling at top speed and doing low revs wont need oil changes as one running around town with stop/start and going through the whole rev range all the time....
in plain english...the wheels may be doing 100 000 kms but the engine may only feel like it has done 20 000kms.....

all gearbox, diff and transfer case oils are supposed to be changed every two years(40 000kms) on normal driving.....
if you use your car off road i would be doing them at 20 000kms or once a year.....


i change my oil and filters every 5 000kms....

different manufacturers recommend longer and longer intervals between services to make thir cars sound better as in they dont need regular servicing and maintenance....
and its true...a new car will go for three years without an oil change or service.....may not last much longer though...but hey...the warranty is expired and the dealer doesnt worry any more....
also....quite a lot of people get rid of their cars every three years cos thats when problems start...
what they dont realise is that these problems start because of lack of maintenance....

the theory behind all this is ...
i have a new car to drive ever three years.....
i havent really lost much money on the new price as i save that on repairs if i were to keep the car....
i will trade the old one in before it depreciates too much....
and various other reasons...


if you plan to keep your car....the longer it has fresh oil in it the longer it should last...


did i bore you?


Ray now you can :wink: :wink:
zoog bad choice of colour :oops: :oops: :wink: :wink:

[hiline]

i was going to do the same,but couldn't be bothered :wink: :wink:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:green">sorry.... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:



i clicked on the wrong colour....

all fixed now......


most people think that the less a car needs to be serviced the better it is...
however in todays car market they can almost be considered as disposable cars.....
so the manufacturers come up with all these mythical service intervals....
the engine will last the life of the car....which is currently around 3-5 years...</span>

[rick130]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><snip>....so the manufacturers come up with all these mythical service intervals....
the engine will last the life of the car....which is currently around 3-5 years...
_________________
[/b][/quote]

Sorry Zook, but thats crap !

Engines are lasting far longer they ever were in the past.

Firstly, lubricants technology has made massive advances in the last ten years. Oils are so much better than they were it is absolute chalk and cheese
Secondly, the manufacturers have the pressure applied by entities such as the EPA to preserve precious resources.
Thirdly, the manufacturers have determined through exhaustive testing that the average model, under average conditions can easily meet those service intervals. Ever wonder how all those manufacturer specifications that are proudly displayed on the back of your oil container were determined ?
And yes, it is a marketing tool to entice individuals and fleets in particular to choose certain vehicles on a $/km basis.

Think about it for a sec. Not that long ago 50,000km was considerd a very good warranty. Some car makers are now warranting the driveline in excess of 130,000km..........are they really trying to stuff them with extended service intervals ???

Yes, if someone is only doing 5-10 km in a trip, that is a servere service condition and the OCI should be adjusted accordingly, but don't tell me a prime mover pulling 40 tonnes, one day interstate in 45* temps, the next running around a city isn't servere service as well. Last time I looked in a handbook, towing was considered severe and my Defender can only legally tow 3.5 tonnes........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>an engine on a freeway travelling at top speed and doing low revs wont need oil changes as one running around town with stop/start and going through the whole rev range all the time....
in plain english...the wheels may be doing 100 000 kms but the engine may only feel like it has done 20 000kms.....[/b][/quote]

I used that 100,000km OCI example to show how efficient the centrifuge is at trapping nasties such as soot. A full flow filter is almost useless at cleaning oil, but those centrifuges really work well.

If you feel comfortable changing your engine oil @ 5,000km, I'm happy for you. I'm not sure how you've determined that interval, your oil or driving habits.

I've determined through testing, using the best oil I can afford, and my vehicles condition and the conditions it operates in that I can safely triple or quadruple that OCI, and the oil is nowhere near spent.
I have reduced the rate of wear in the engine compared to the oil used by the previous operators, saved money, saved time and helped the environment by reducing waste.
My prime objective was increasing the servicable life of the vehicle and reducing wear and breakdowns, all the others are a bonus.

The entrenched conservatism and mistrust displayed by people when it comes to vehicle servicing puzzles me. Insisting the manufacturer has it wrong, without any evidence to support is something I can't accept.

Doing it more frequently may not increase its life, but if it makes you feel better, who am I to argue ?

[ExtremeDefender]

I had the same problems with conflicting service information. So just to add to the debate I have a "Landrover Maintenance Cheek sheet" given to me by my dealer after a lot of "verbal pressure", for a defender (TD5) (Diesel models 99MY to 01MY) which states the following:

Renew engine oil @ 20,000KM
Renew Centrifuge rotor @ 20,000KM
Renew Full flow filter @ 60,000KM
Renew gear box and transfer oil @ 40,000KM
Renew fuel filter @ 40,000KM

These figures are given under normal operating conditions.

If anybody needs a copy send me a fax number and I'll fax the two pages.
Yes I know it would be good to scan, paste/cut etc and put a copy on the web site but I am not quite up to that yet!

[Rosco]

Originally posted by ExtremeDefender

If anybody needs a copy send me a fax number and I'll fax the two pages.


Yes please style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

07 3822 6183

Ta muchly

Cheers

[disconut]

[quote="rick130remember that the centrifuge does most of the cleaning. If you cut open the full flow filter at 60,000km, I'm guessing there would be very little in there.

Actually the centrifugal filter does very little. See quote from manual.

"The Td5 engine features two types of oil filter; the main filter is a standard disposable cartridge-type full flow oil filter which is augmented with a by-pass centrifuge filter used to filter out particulate matter having a smaller diameter smaller than 15 micron but greater than 3 micron."

"Approximately 10% of the total oil flow enters the centrifuge pot through a side port in the pot casting which is mated to an outlet port at the lower side of the oil cooler housing."

Trev.

[George130]

I have all of the TD5 manuals on CD, including the service form. Yes those intervals are correct.

[rick130]

HI Disconut, I probably should have said that the centrifuge filters to a far greater level than the full flow filter, or that it filters more (as in finer) particles. Full flow filters generally only filter approximately 50% of 25-30 micron particles when tested in a multi-pass test done to the relevant ISO standar. They are a compromise of filtration vs flow.

Most nearly all by-pass type arrangements only siphon off around 10% of total flow at any one time, but they capture far, far more particles than a full flow filter because they use a much finer, (and more restrtictive) media, or they are a centrifuge like the one on the TD5.

[disconut]

Hi Rick,
Thanks for the clarification. In terms of filtration, the centrifugal filter removes the finer particles. (does the hard work).
Cheers,
Trev.

[Ace]

I have a TDi not a TD5 but according to the log book gearbox and t/c oil should be changed every 40000km, however this is for basic day to day use, so i reckon if you use yours off road doing the oil every 20000km is cheap insurance, so thats what i do, i do the diff oil when i do the GB and the TC. Its better to do it to often than not often enough. Matt