Steering box 101

[101 Ron]

The things you learn.
The steering on my 101 used to be nice and play free.
It steered very well on the highway at speed and accurate.
The only problems with the steering was a loose pitman arm nut when I first purchased the vehicle.
Fitting all steering ball joints with grease nipples was found to be a improvement in slightly reducing steering effort.
Over the last Two years my 101 has been getting excessive play in the steering box which would not adjust out.
The pit man arm was getting some side to side movement.
This normally indicates pitman arm bush wear.
On my last long trip the steering was getting dangerous......the steering box needed to come out.
AJ was rung for parts.
The steering column top ball race just below the steering wheel and the lowest ball race cup is available as well as the balls for the recirculating ball worn........all matching up with series three Landrover or off the shelf at the bearing shop.

[101 Ron]

I pulled my steering box down.
The pitman arm bush was removed and little wear found.
The pitman arm bush is not available anywhere.
The top of the steering box where the column bolts on was found cracked.( in four places and extensively)
The lower steering box cup found in poor condition , but that was OK as the series three Landrover item fits.
The worm and recirculating balls all in good condition.
The top race face on the worn shaft was pitted, but the non available cup was OK.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/65.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0244_zpsgbfkem9e.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/66.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0243_zpsluybp8j6.jpg.html)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/67.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0247_zpsiqgjzgcv.jpg.html)

[Mick_Marsh]

Just saw a NOS 101 steering box on ebay last week.

[101 Ron]

The top race face on the worm shaft has been cleaned up and luckily the hardening is thick to allow this.
AJ states the top race cup usually cracks or just wears.
Lack of lube being the top steering box bearing would be one reason and the other is the top of the steering box opening up and enlargeing and cracking like my steering box has.
The pic below shows the cup in the housing and the cup is loose and not well supported.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/63.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0245_zpsegevb94s.jpg.html)
Below is a pic of the steering worm top race surface mostly cleaned up.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/64.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0253_zpsogylqhkk.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

I looked at all options for the pitman arm bush........nothing was going to do the job and the alloy steering box housing is very thin not allowing much in the way of options to machine to a different , but available size.
So as last resort a oversize steel bush was made up and pressed into place.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/62.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0248_zps36s8xpvj.jpg.html)
It was found the true problem was the not the bush been worn, but the alloy housing distorting and a elongated bush hole.
The 101 pitman arm is very long and the slightest wear in the pitman arm bush becomes a problem.

Note the inner part of the pitman arm bush is the steering box housing itself and is whisker thin and will not allow machining for a full length replacement bush.

[101 Ron]

A plate has been made up to strengthen the top bearing cup area of the steering box.
TIG welding it into place should shrink the hole the cup sits in and support it much better and provide more meat around it to stop any possible cracking up of the cup though being loose in the steering box housing.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/59.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0254_zpso9uyobwq.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/60.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0255_zpstarwahsb.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/61.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0256_zpsjsq8fs54.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

Below some more general pics.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/56.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0250_zpsjomphihk.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/57.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0251_zpswm4xjh21.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/58.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0249_zps9tb6iptk.jpg.html)

The recirculating ball nut has only One pass though the back of it instead of the normal Two.
The worm shaft is friction welded in Two places and is not of a very strong small diameter.
This steering box is suitable for use on something like a Mini Minor and nothing bigger.
After being so well sized and built so far and reliable ( the 101)I am disappointed landrover would use this rubbish Burman steering box on something with 900x16 tyres without power steering and with a 1.5 tonne payload with forward control weight bias.
I can only guess it was to help get the vehicle weight down for its air transportability spec.

[101 Ron]

In another thread on this site someone was looking at using electric power steering assistance though the standard steering box.
It is Not the way to go............the standard steering box will not take the extra strain over time.
AJ has a power steering conversion in the pipe line using a non standard steering box and by passing the relay arms and bearings in the steering.
It would be the way to go or doing a big mod of the chassis and install a disco steering box.( both options could need engineering certs to be fully legal.)
I plan to raise the level of the steering box oil filler pipe by extending it with the aim of increasing the steering box oil level height to ensure the top steering box bearing is always fully lubed.
I will report later and let you know how it turns out with the strengthen standard box.

[goingbush]

very interesting, why don't you put a nipple and a bleed hole and fill the box with moreys grease instead of oil ??

[101 Ron]

It was already running Moreys thick oil stabilizer........ie extremely thick oil to slow up the oil leak from the pitman arm shaft as the play in the shaft was causing a slow oil leak and the oil seal for the shaft is only a single O ring.
There is no bleeder hole other than the steering column tube.
The thick oil will not solve the housing cracks and grease will not lubricate the recirculating nut balls correctly.

[Homestar]

In another thread on this site someone was looking at using electric power steering assistance though the standard steering box.
It is Not the way to go............the standard steering box will not take the extra strain over time.
AJ has a power steering conversion in the pipe line using a non standard steering box and by passing the relay arms and bearings in the steering.
It would be the way to go or doing a big mod of the chassis and install a disco steering box.( both options could need engineering certs to be fully legal.)
I plan to raise the level of the steering box oil filler pipe by extending it with the aim of increasing the steering box oil level height to ensure the top steering box bearing is always fully lubed.
I will report later and let you know how it turns out with the strengthen standard box.

AJ has had this in the pipeline for years and I have tried to purchase one off him and get him to do a conversion for me, but 3 years of asking him have got me no where which is why I'm looking at my own options.

I have my spare steering box apart at the moment and yes I agree with you on how fragile they may be long term - I'm still looking at options.

[101 Ron]

If a steering kit is sold it should be engineered in these days or the fitter, owner and seller could be in deep poo.
There is one component which needs to be sourced for AJs kit which on AJs prototype is a fabricated item made from two different parts and not possible to sell as a kit in any sort of numbers.
It needs researching to find a common available part to do the job.

I believe A J will sooner or later sell components to correct the 101s steering problems, may be as individual parts.

[Homestar]

The bevel box is readily available from a few different vehicles - I've got one in the garage that will work. Add to that the Nissan Navara PS box and a couple of brackets and you're not far away. AJ said that he would look at supplying parts and/or doing the installs ages ago. Maybe he's be balking because of the engineering issues, I'm not sure, but I doubt he has anything 'nearly' ready to go. Don't get me wrong, I like the man a lot, and the conversion is bloody awesome as I've driven his 101, I just don't think this is one of his priorities at the moment, which is fine.

[Sitec]

I have the bevel box here, along with a Navara steering box.. but I'm still slow to use it.. I prefer the idea of using a Defender box and bits...

[101 Ron]

AJs power steering parts problems are not with the bevel box, but another item which I cannot mention.
My steering box is refitted and working OK.
The pic below is the new plate TIG welded in and it did successfully tighten up the upper bearing cup housing hole.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/851.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0263_zpssk1tikdm.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/852.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0264_zpsqlfbky4j.jpg.html)

Below is the assembled steering box with welded strengthening plate, raised oil level filler tube by use of brass extension.
The upper ball race to steering column and shims were well sealed.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/853.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0265_zps3qd88cfn.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

Below is the steering box fitted.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/849.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0267_zpsbwiq3nq5.jpg.html)

Below is a picture of the bottom of the steering box fitted to the vehicle.
It shows a small brass drain plug added to the steering box.
This will allow anything which finds its way in to the steering box .....like water to be drained.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/850.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0268_zpsrjatvy1a.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

Another problem with the standard steering box is the small bearing in the top of the steering column just below the steering wheel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/848.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0266_zpskcbiagv2.jpg.html)

The bearing is a ball type and is held together by a small flat or round C clip, depending on who made it.
If that bearing fails or looses a few very small bearing balls, it all drops down into the steering box and though that top unavailable worm shaft bearing and then will hang around near the bottom bearing too ready to destroy that too.
When I pulled my steering box apart I found two C clips , small bits of harden metal and very small bearing balls.
I now know two different top steering column bearings have failed and the hardened bits dropped though my steering box .
Because of its design the top steering column bearing will fall apart easily during fitting ,or with wear.
It was another reason why I fitted a drain plug to the bottom of the steering box.( to let out any busted bits out.)

Ensure the steering column bearing is in good condition, and any effort to replace it should be made with the steering box removed from the vehicle as it will fall apart and drop its C clip and bearing balls into the steering box.
Ron.

[101 Ron]

just for interest sake.
Spy pics of AJs power steering.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/840.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/305_zps0dc045b9.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/841.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/307_zps0af8519b.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/842.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/309_zps70612474.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/843.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/306_zps7ec14509.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

I personally looking at things from a different way.
Being in the forklift game I see Japanese forklifts using similar steering boxes in earlier models with steering column about the correct height or models with adjustable steering columns with out a steering shaft tube.
the steering boxes are square in shape and designed to bolt up easily from different directions.
Forklift boxes are heavy duty and recirculating ball with valving for power steering cylinder which is fitted else where on the steering.
Pit man arm splines advailable in different sizes too.
I have to find time to research it more.

[101 Ron]

I think the following was a disco steering box conversion

BILD0043.jpg Photo by 101Ron | Photobucket (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/BILD0043.jpg.html'sort=2&o=364http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/BILD0043.jpg.html'sort=2&o=364)
BILD0040.jpg Photo by 101Ron | Photobucket (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/BILD0040.jpg.html'sort=2&o=367)
BILD0041.jpg Photo by 101Ron | Photobucket (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/BILD0041.jpg.html'sort=2&o=366)
BILD0042.jpg Photo by 101Ron | Photobucket (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/BILD0042.jpg.html'sort=2&o=365)

[350RRC]

Just wondering why you didn't grind the crack out, weld it up, resurface the face and drill and re-tap the bolt hole?

Is it alloy or cast iron?

cheers, DL

[Homestar]

It's an alloy housing, and I think it would just happen again if welded and re tapped. This brace should hold the top bearing in position for ever I would think. I wonder if any other parts of the box could be strengthened like this...?

[stuee]

I can now attest to how weak the 101 steering box is. First weekend hard 4wding in the 101 (or first time not 4wding on sand) at the W4 challenge and I broke a mounting point on the box (Aluminium has cracked and the whole mount came away from the box). I've stolen one of Ron's pics to circle the mount that broke.

Looking at the box with a mate he believes he can machine a new housing out of steel for me. At the same time we can possible address some of the design flaws Ron has mentioned and see where we can use more easily attainable parts.

While I can still move the car at the moment, once I've given it a good clean I will park it up and pull the box to investigate my options further. Not really looking at a power steering conversion at this point as nothing easily available and I don't fancy too much cut and shut of the chassis.

[Homestar]

Bugger, no good mate. If your mate can do a steel case, let him know he can build 2 and I'll buy one (subject to a rough idea on price:)). That may bring the cost per unit down and it may help me be able to do my electric conversion.

I have a complete, good condition case and parts sitting on my bench at the moment that I'd be happy to ship over for measurements, etc if that helps - and I'm happy for you to stick them in your 101 to get you back on the road for the time being too if you want. :)

[101 Ron]

The Burman steering box is just too lightly built in every respect including the worm and recirculating ball nut.
Even with a steel case it will not handle electric power steering and survive for a long time.
For Stuee the best option is to get the old box TIG welded and strengthen just to get the vehicle back on the road ASAP.
The only long term options for the 101 Landrover for them to go another 40 years is another heavier construction steering box.
Not much in the way of parts around for the old steering boxes.
If the steering box is changed for another you would be crazy not to look at the power steering option.
The UK 101 club site has a thread on the Burman steering boxes and its not good.
This link is to a company that recently made some 101 steering box worms and nuts from stratch.

sales@ics-spares.co.uk

[101 Ron]

ICS Steering - Land Rover 101 Forward Control (http://www.ics-steeringspecialist.co.uk/bespoke-engineering/land-rover-101-foward-control)



If anyone chases this I would be interested too.

Ron

[Homestar]

Yeah, I'm starting to see your point Ron. What about a box from a small cab over truck? I might go googling a bit. The reason I'm still looking at something like this is that the electric conversion appeals to me for a couple of reasons. First, I don't really want to weld stuff to the chassis so I can easily covert back to a standard box if required (I know the conversion you're talking about still allows going back, but I'd prefer not to modify the chassis), and secondly, I have bugger all to no room to mount a PS pump. Fixing that would take a lot of effort, then you have all the hassles of pipes, etc. not the most appealing solution to me. Maybe a stronger box that van be mounted with minimum fuss (maybe such a beast does not exist) then grafting the electric system in. There are similar looking boxes in old vans - like combi's etc, but I would imagine these would be as weak as the original.

[Homestar]

Would be nice to scan the wrecking yards and look for something - just with a quick search, this came up - an 81 to 85 transit van manual box - available new in both LH and RH configurations. Not saying this would fit, but maybe worth a look.

[goingbush]

Here is a useful catalogue, I had a need to download a while back, there are some interesting configurations page 24 onwards

http://www.pss.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/pss-catalogue.pdf

[101 Ron]

Would be nice to scan the wrecking yards and look for something - just with a quick search, this came up - an 81 to 85 transit van manual box - available new in both LH and RH configurations. Not saying this would fit, but maybe worth a look.

Looks very close.

[Homestar]

I may have some time up my sleeve in the next couple of weeks, I might go on the scrounge and see what I can find that might be close.

[stuee]

Cleaned most the mud off today and pulled the floor up to take a pic to show the damage. Will have a go at pulling it out next weekend. Just need the pitman arm to co-operate.

[101 Ron]

Looks like some sort of corrosion or reaction between the steering box housing the bolt that holds it.( the length wise crack where the bolt goes)
The pitman arm has Two small lugs on it to help a puller to grip onto it.
Use heat to crack the taper on the pitman arm as the steering box seal is only a O ring so there is very little to hurt with the heat.
Once the pitman arm is off and steering wheel removed the steering box drops straight down and out , don't even need to remove that floor plate.
Ron

[stuee]

Feeling a little bit chuffed with myself today. My MAP gun has been out of gas for a while so I used some other tools I purchased along the way (i.e. welder and 14mm thread tap) to make myself a stubby pitman arm puller to fit the 101. Got the box out and will now proceed to look at it for the next few weeks and perhaps pick it up occasionally, think about draining the oil and maybe even measuring it :p

If any 101ers in Perth need to remove their pitman arms they are more than welcome to borrow my diy puller. Hopefully it can get more than one use.

[stuee]

Pulled my box down today. The small bearing that supports the top of the column was fubar and had dropped its contents into the box but no apparent damage. This was the state of my box when I cracked it open, I didn't bother draining the oil out first:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/383.jpg

After stripping it down most components are in good condition, the bottom bearing race is a little pitted, although new ones can be gotten at a reasonable price.

I also found some useful information on bearing options for the box on the club forum.

101 club • Login (http://101club.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=959&start=0)


numbers from the page 31 38 off the parts catalogue.
-number 10 change by a bronze bush.
-number 8+9 change by a taper roller bearing 25-47-15mm, SKF number 32005X (number 3 must be ground and a intermediate
steel bush must be fitted)
-number 7+9 change by a taper roller bearing 15-42-14,25 mm, SKF number 30302 (number 3 must be ground)
-the original bronze bush in the housing (1) is only the half length, it change in a full length bronze bush, to receive number 11.
this bush is in 2 parts and a little hole in the housing 1 allows the oil to arrive to the outer bush.
-the O-ring 12 change to an oil seal.
Of course the housing must be machined to receive the bearings and the oil seal.

More here:
101FC steering box upgrade (http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/53117-101FC-steering-box-upgrade)

As I'm attempting to make a new housing its not a big deal making it to the right size for the new bearings but I'm in two minds about grinding down the steering column to accept them. If the new housing is a disaster I can attempt to get the original welded up, but modifying the column would mean I cant go back to this option.

In the mean time I'm going to keep measuring the old box up, see what other bearing options may be available, and find some suitable bushings.

[stuee]

I haven't done too much with my new box, I'm close to finalising the design, picked the components that I want to use, all relatively easy to obtain off the shelf with the exception of the needle roller bearing (NK22/20TN) I will be using to support the very top of the inner column (the one up at the steering wheel) which needs to come from over east, or because it was easier and slightly cheaper, the UK via RS components.

The mods to the inner column will involve cutting down the upper bearing support and upper steering column to 22mm. A tapered roller bearing will be used for the upper bearing (320/22JR or 320/22X). The lower bearing support will be cut down to 15mm for another tapered bearing (30302 J2 - although since I bought it I cant see it in the SKF catalogue, but there is an equivalent NSK).

I'll use bronze bushes (FB 901) cut down to 1.5" long (one inserted from either side) with oil grooves cut out for the rocker shaft and the seal is a double lip press in seal - cost all of $4.40.

The outer column will get some slight tickling to fit the needle roller bearing and to make sure it clears the upper tapered roller bearing.

Ill run all this past my mate when I get a chance to see how viable it is, then will chase down a lump of steel to machine out.

I've attached a screenshot of the model, I had to crudely draw the rocker shaft and ball nut to make sure the clearances were ok. It's a good thing I did as I had to slightly tweak the position of the inner column, one of my initial measurements wasn't so flash.

At the moment I see the main problem as juggling time, it's taken me this long just to have the thing drawn up so don't know how long it will take to build the thing. I'd like to have it back on the road as the weather starts cooling again but we'll see.

edit* the model doesn't show an oil drain - I stole that idea from 101Ron.

edit2* I found another crack on one of the other mounting points when measuring up. As has been suggested it may be the bolts used were reacting with the aluminium?? or the box is a dodgy casting?? Either way I'm happy not to use it again. Also estiamted weight for the new box (without everything in it) will be around 7.2kg! There is the option of machining off more to save weight but I don't think that will be an issue on the 101.

[101RRS]

Those with a 101 will be all to aware of the weak steering box. This long winded You Tube vid goes to show what can happen when and where you least want it to happen. Often it is the ball bearings in the steering column that cause issues but in this case it seems the outer case of the steering box itself failed.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRfH_eUZQjM&t=2s)

Garry

[Homestar]

Nice setup he has, glad I don’t need to worry about that issue any more.

[101RRS]

I will piggy back on this thread rather than start a new one.

There are a few options to put power steering on a 101. In the Uk you can use the Sherpa box, the RR Classic 4 bolt box or a disco box but this one requires cutting the chassis. Here we have the Anthony Johnson option using a bevel box and a Nissan box to replace the steering relay. All these work quite well but do require a bit of modification etc.

When I was a member of the 101 Club they also discussed ram style power steering but was generally discounted - I think due to lag.

Like many other people, I go on other forums and one is for Mogs, Pinzgauers and Volvo 303s etc. The Volvo has a suspension and steering system basically the same as the 101 and the have fitted electric steering kits but also fitting a ram power steering system as fitted to the 60s and 70s Chev Corvette. The Volvo guys say it is easy to install with no complex welding and works really well. It also retains the original steering system without modification as the ram is fitted to either the track rod or drag link (not sure).

So any one considered a ram type power steering system for their 101 or even series landies - if so what were the pros and cons?

Thanks

Garry

[Homestar]

Considered a ram style system at one point but the cost and poor reports of leaking and lag, etc put me off, so I ended up putting a Nissan Navara PS box in mine, with modified series 3 steering column through a bevel box at the end. The Navara pitman arm picks up the drag link in the same spot the bottom arm on the relay normally does and the best part is I could convert it back to standard manual steering in just a couple of hours if needed but having used it now with the power steering, I won’t be going back, but all the bits are on a shelf if ever needed.

All engineered too, along with the disk brake conversion.