Here we go again 86 RRC

[tony66_au]

It's still a mystery to me why I do this, I reckon the Missus has something to do with it but as I like sleeping with both eyes shut I'll leave sleeping dogs lie there.

Picked up a 1986 3.5 EFI RRC yesterday on a whim!

Not bad nick for its age and the interior is fairly tidy too, Duel fuel which I have mixed feelings about but as the EFI bit doesnt work right now LPG it is.

Spent a few hours doing a recce for RWC and mechanically its tidy with a minor low pressure PS leak and that was it for oil.

Lots of fragile hoses though and its seems to be getting harder to find a one stop parts shop with online ordering for lazy buggers. (Suggestions?)

Electric windows need some love too but aside from minor stiff and the back door that wont open at all im HAPPY!

[tony66_au]

Haven't taken anything more than a few phone snaps.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/8.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/86RRC/WP_20150830_18_01_28_Pro_zpsewzntj5m.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/9.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/86RRC/WP_20150830_18_00_41_Pro_zpstsebabys.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/10.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/86RRC/WP_20150830_17_59_11_Pro_zpspaboxkcv.jpg.html)

[tony66_au]

And more

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/4.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/86RRC/WP_20150830_17_59_39_Pro_zpskgrzywym.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/5.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/86RRC/WP_20150830_17_59_05_Pro_zpsdorqm7zt.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/6.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/86RRC/WP_20150829_15_48_58_Pro_zpsmmhtx8mv.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/7.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/86RRC/WP_20150829_15_49_24_Pro_zps1kcgzqkd.jpg.html)

[Grumbles]

An ' 86 eh......looks nice and tidy. For a car which is now 29 years old it still looks classy and relevant....timeless good looks. Good pick-up tony66.

[tony66_au]

Cheers Grumbles,
I was almost tempted to grab a P38 Id been watching for a while but it just didn't sit right with my views on how a Rangie should look.

Im still drawn to the 38's but our last RRC which was an 84 with the torqueflite was a faithful daily for 11 years and this old girl just felt like home when I first sat in her and she should look good next to my 83 RRC (4 speed manual) when she is finally done.

[DoubleChevron]

I think that's one of the most "unbroken" interiors I've seen :) I'd probably break half the plastic just by sitting in it given how much I've broken on the one here :(

[tony66_au]

I think that's one of the most "unbroken" interiors I've seen :) I'd probably break half the plastic just by sitting in it given how much I've broken on the one here :(

LOL yeah it struck me as odd that the cubby lid was intact and still on its hinges, the plastics are actually quite good and the upholstery is very nice apart from a worn drivers seat.

I think the wooden cubbys were far more robust and I have 2 spares but having been spoilt by Euro fit and finish this old girl was a very nice surprise.

The Previous owner tells me he bought it at Auction from the original owner and it sat around for 7 years until he decided to sell it on.

It's definitely been sitting around a while and a touch under 300'000 km means bugger all use, Good for me!

[Corgie Carrier]

If you want a one stop parts shop online, give Roverlord on here a PM. His prices are good and the service is great. I buy just about all my stuff from him now.
It's easier buying online when you live as far from the shops as I do.

Good luck with the Rangie, it looks like a good starting point.

[Eevo]

looks good

[tony66_au]

If you want a one stop parts shop online, give Roverlord on here a PM. His prices are good and the service is great. I buy just about all my stuff from him now.
It's easier buying online when you live as far from the shops as I do.

Good luck with the Rangie, it looks like a good starting point.


Will do, I was trolling his profile last night actually and they are handy to me as well.
Seems the old boys don't exist or are greatly reduced in stock etc, I used to spend tons with the mob in Blackburn when they were at their old place and they are a shadow of themselves now from what I see.

Shame no one has a decent webshop

[jsp]

Very nice!

I recently picked up a modified 86 as well and its got a few minor rust issues and I would love to find another 86 to use for parts, but haven't seen one that clean in a long time!

Mines only got 42k on it so the rust needs to be fixed :)

[tony66_au]

Wow, 42k its barely run in!

[Baggy]

Nice honest vehicle and having a complete intact interior is 3/4 of any restoration job solved in my opinion.

Panels can be resprayed, but its sitting in a nice original interior that makes for an even more enjoyable classic ride.

Great find ....as jsp says good ones are getting rare now even in 4dr classics .... we'll watch her progress with interest :D

Cheers

Baggy

[tony66_au]

A few minor tasks on the list now.

Right hand rear door wont open so im going to have to pull the door card off to reattach the rod or whatever fell off.

Left front shock absorber top rubber is in need of replacement to stop a clunk.

Fuel injection has to work, fortunately it has a Bosch external pump and filter cradle and my replacement Pump arrived today so I'll power syphon the tanks, give em a quick rinse and add some fresh 98 Pulp with the new pump and filter.

Finally I have the drivers window working slowly, so Bailey channel needs cleaning but none of the other windows even twitch.

So id hope to find relays or fuses? Maybe check the earth connections with a jumper lead off the negative terminal straight to the doors.

Any clues with the windows on common culprits?

Cheers,

Tony


Oh and anyone know if you can get a hose kit for the Aux Air valve and vac plumbing? The hoses are brittle.

[Corgie Carrier]

The switches seem to be the main culprit for the windows. Pull the connectors off and clean them out, they get a lot of fluff and grime in there over the years.

[Mercguy]

Tony,
I had the same issue with the RH rear window, and it turned out to be the switch itself. Cleaning made no difference.
Hopefully yours fares better.

I find I am spending more time in the RRC than any of the MB's - and the to-do list is growing..

exponentially!

[tony66_au]

Of the 4 switches the only one I got going was the drivers front which has been replaced in the past as its different to the other 3 so I've ordered a full set online.

The Uro brand switches are not very hardy I have found in the past with Benz's and the feed poles on the switch I pulled apart were very badly pitted and corroded which means they wont feed the rear door switches either which matches my findings when checking the rear door switches for operation as well, left rear would twitch and open slightly off the door switch and its partner in the front bank is a genuine LR switch still part servicable after 30 years but the right rear gets zero volts through the Uro replacement switch in the front bank so we all know where the (+) ive feed comes from lol.

I found it hard to fathom that the entire window circuit relied on feed from the front and that there were no bi metal breakers etc although the way the isolate switch is configured I can see why.
Agricultural but simple.

So the issue lies in the quality of the switch which has a heck of a current draw through it, Pulling the original switch apart and comparing it to the cheaper replacements the build quality is clearly evident so Id say the old practise of cleaning the OE switches was a superior option to replacing them with lesser items.

However I think that after 30 odd years the original items (That remain) are now unservicable although I will do a more indepth investigation/Necropsy on the old switches when I am done getting this old girl roadworthy.

As for the German side of things?
Im down to 4 W116's and a C107 with a W126 SEL on the horizon.
Sent the 124 to the scrappies and when im done stripping 2 of the 116's I'll be down 2 more and of the remaining 2 im keeping one and giving one to a mate to look after (LOL the giving is to work around a minor technicality where he is banned from enjoying life so he is looking after it for me as a favour)

Oh and the bailey channel/rubbers need de filthing/replacing on the Rangie too which wih a bit of light lube should make them quicker along with some love to the motor and arms in the doors.

I do like my glass to be fast.

[Mercguy]

I do like my glass to be fast.

How fast? 2.8? 1.4? 0.95 ??? :D

[tony66_au]

Not Mercedes fast although the Grosser Hydro glass would be fun until someone got some bits in the way....

And my reaction times aint what they used to be

[tony66_au]

Bought 4 new switches from LR Direct as well as a few other bibs and bobs and since I last graced the keyboard we have sorted and got running the petrol side of the equation.

Since the 2 LPG tanks take the space of the original fuel tank which is replaced with sill tanks the usual in tank pump was replaced with an external pump/filter combo which has been re plumbed and mounted, the sill tanks flushed and the L jet Lucas injection made functional.

The car drives nicely on both LPG and the wet stuff which led me to ponder the Ign timing which usually needs a shload of advance for LPG which leads to popping and farting on trailing throttle when on Petrol and this was not the case......

So spark advance found to be set to "beige cardigan" and so I crudely advanced timing to the limits of the existing dizzy which made the whole LPG thing more fun but im going to have to look into a remapped dizzy to more suit LPG and im thinking perhaps some way I can advance and retard the Ign timing to suit those time I want to run a tank or 2 of fuel through the old girl. (Hint hint suggestions?)

[bee utey]

If you have any running problems on petrol with shed loads of advance, just run 95 octane premium petrol, it's a good match for LPG settings. However I've not met any of the low compression V8s that did actually suffer with advanced timing. It's really all about emissions of NOX I believe, so just keep it in mind as you fang around in it.:)

[tony66_au]

Nice to know!

I usually run BP or Shell 98 anyway as it keeps things a bit cleaner and the old girl has BP 98 at the moment with a note on the sunvisor as to when the 20 lt was added as it has a shortish self life.

Plus I found years ago when Pulp first hit the shelves that I got better economy (Bang for buck) with the stuff.

I know the 3.5's are a bit wheezy but the ZF 4 speed seems well matched and I can always play with torque converters should the need arise.

Ta for the heads up!

[tony66_au]

Back on the road to rego and I spent half a day yesterday cleaning the thing and making sure any moss was dispatched and the bailey channels are squeaky clean.

The bad paint job seems to be blowing off with the Gerni and the RR words front and rear went poof.

I washed the Rangie on clean sand which is now not so clean and although I normally dont go berserk with high pressure water on old cars this ones been sitting for a while.

Anyway as paint isnt really a RWC item I started on the windows with my 40 amp test leads adding a clean earth path from the freshly charged battery to the door frame and got a really quick slightly sticky drivers door, left front and rear intermittently work now and the right rear wont budge so New switches for every one! (Although im now 2 short as I only ordered 4 not thinking about the rear door switches).

So new switches, Alternate earth straps to doors and finger crossed is a good start.

Mechanically she is due for oil, Ign, Filters and runs nicely on both LPG and fuel :-)

[tony66_au]

Piccies, just a few rushed half dark shots.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/6.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/DSCF7997_zps5si2hl4c.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/7.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/DSCF7999_zpsem2fjsuf.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/8.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/DSCF7994_zpss0p1lwrb.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/9.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/DSCF7995_zpsfschddvp.jpg.html)

[Homestar]

Nice to know!

I usually run BP or Shell 98 anyway as it keeps things a bit cleaner and the old girl has BP 98 at the moment with a note on the sunvisor as to when the 20 lt was added as it has a shortish self life.

Plus I found years ago when Pulp first hit the shelves that I got better economy (Bang for buck) with the stuff.

I know the 3.5's are a bit wheezy but the ZF 4 speed seems well matched and I can always play with torque converters should the need arise.

Ta for the heads up!

Yeah, as Bee Utey said, wind in a heap of advance if your happy running premium. The 3.5 in my 101 had so much advance wound into it, that even on 98 on a hot day under power it would suffer pre ignition. I've backed it off a bit from there but I think it is still at 13 or 14 degrees.

[tony66_au]

Will do, im not so sure that the ign timing is advancing properly anyway and my rule of thumb was usually wind in advance until she pops on trailing throttle and then wind it back a degree or 2.

Im still chasing Vac leaks and replacing brittle hoses especially around the cold start air valve etc and the dizzy will be overhauled once I have her registered etc and probably recurved anyway so I get the best bang for buck.

Im not actually looking for economy and never did with Rangies anyway but she has to run "right" as Jen will be using it as her daily.

I'm mindfull of the fact that she sat around for well over 2 years too.

So muchos advance it is!

[tony66_au]

Next quandry, Electric windows.........

Something I avoided on English cars for years was electric windows and I have been spoilt by the elderly Mercs I own as their fast glass is still fast and works a treat even after 40 plus years.

In the last week I have also replaced a window reg on my Korean buzz box so I worked up the courage to tackle the Rangie windows.

SO! All 4 front switches replaced and the best of the old front switches cleaned and repurposed to the rear doors suddenly all of the windows are working apart from the front passenger which is I suspect stuffed or has a broken wire.

I then ran through a few tests of the electron flow versus resistance type as the old girl is 29 which range from the simple to the exotic.

Test One: More power, I grabbed a huge Calcium plate jump start battery and popped it on charge over night using the smart charger and with my 600 amp jump leads added it to the existing battery (Also charged and passed) for a bit more snot in the current department and yup, things in the magic smoke department worked a little better but still not well enough as the windows needed help still.
I started here because of the extra battery holder and as it would be an easy slack fix.

Test Two: grab my 100 amp test leads and supply Earth and Positive direct from the battery bypassing the engine bay harness...
Part A was with the Earth lead and it made no difference at all as I clamped one end to the Negative terminal (Still with both batteries hooked up) and tried a few spots on the car door around the hinges and the door latch.
Part B was with a HD positive probe into the loom at the window switch plug and made a slight difference to the front and more to the rear but still not roadworthy.

Test Three: Grabbing my trusty can of electrical contact cleaner (Id used this to clean up the old switches) I cleaned the switch connector blocks and this actually made a fair difference with both batteries hooked up but bugger all with just the in car battery.

So 3 hours in and I have a fair idea of what the issues are...

Rangies need 2 batteries.
Resistance is my enemy.
20 amp window switches are not adequate in old cars.
Im going to have to replace the bailey channels.
Some dill used Spray silicone grease on slidey bits and this has now set like caulking.
The original cabling for the windows whilst barely adequate in 1986 is no where near up to the job today.

The Fixes.

Switches (Done and made a difference for the better)
Run a new source feed from the battery into the switch bank using better terminals, a 30 amp inline ceramic/brass fuse bypassing the original cable and the fuse box. (The reason I use the ceramic core, brass element fuses is that they can get hot and cold many times and dont deform, they are probably IMO a tougher but more accurately rated fuse too).

Bailey channel, Im just going to replace the lot so its all snug and low friction.

Clean, check for mechanical play and re grease the window regulators and check the connections and clean them too.

Make a better earth tag in the car and see if I cant sneak a fresh earth lead into the door loom.

Finally replace the Left front winder motor or whole reg.


What annoyed me the most about the way the window electrics system works is that its half arsed, The wiring is simplicity in itself and a great design for something that could potentially go swimming and the layout is very direct, but the execution of the design is awful with bare minimum spec cable which is well below spec now and no way near spec connection to the source of the power it hungrily needs to operate.

Looks like a few days work ahead.

Tony

[Homestar]

Good write up. :)

It's a job I need to do on mine too and I've suspected a few things you've now confirmed so I have the same task ahead. Will running a larger feed to the switch block fix things enough or is the wiring from the switches to the doors not up to scratch either?

One thing I was thinking of doing was running a new beefy supply into the doors and installed relays in the doors. yes, it's a lot more work but maybe worth stuffing around with?

I won't be doing mine for a while yet, so I'll wait to see how your go. :)

[tony66_au]

Good write up. :)

It's a job I need to do on mine too and I've suspected a few things you've now confirmed so I have the same task ahead. Will running a larger feed to the switch block fix things enough or is the wiring from the switches to the doors not up to scratch either?

One thing I was thinking of doing was running a new beefy supply into the doors and installed relays in the doors. yes, it's a lot more work but maybe worth stuffing around with?

I won't be doing mine for a while yet, so I'll wait to see how your go. :)

Thanks for the praise! I have a pet hate which involves questions asked without the full background or any indication of how skilled or not the person is, So I waffle on about when I did in detail.

In answer to your question about the feed from the power source to the switchblock Id initially run a good feed to the switchblock using a quality accessory bar hanging off the (+) tive terminal, I havent yet measured the current draw but I suspect from visual inspection of the original connection that it would struggle from new to operate more than one window well and 30 years later not even that so im going to open the feed to the switchblock first with either 30 or 40 amp cable of a good quality multistrand type.
Years ago I noted that LandRover in their infinite wisdom were soldering bullet connectors (Replacements available in Daves shop BTW) and that the wiring has always been a bit sub par so considering the Window switches are rated at 20 amps each the OEM wire doesnt stand a chance.

Another major factor I only touched on was mechanical resistance and after a quick look the other day theres a fair bit from the worn out Bailey Channel and as evidence I offer the simple action of pulling or helping the window to close and to note the down speed opposed to the up speed.
They go down quick ish although a little jerky and they dont descend cleanly or square to the door frame so Bailey channel replacement is a Must and a 10 min call to Scotts old Auto rubber informed me that fronts and rears are a touch over $40 each (Bargain) and that there are a few varied profiles for the rubber so they would like a sample.

Secondly the actual window regulators are usually dusty and cruddy with any assembly lube long gone or hard as caulking so they will get a clean and hopefully an in door service and grease using Coppercoat grease (Yes its dear but its the best).

If you have the time and inclination id also replace the door loom with a better gauge cable and new connectors which I believe are also available in Daves Shop if you are mail order inclined and they will probably have the right colours too.

I think that Relays would be overkill as the switches are up to the task providing the wiring is up to spec (and my kids were taught years ago that having electric window races led to a smack) but if a mechanical overhaul, new rubber, switches and lube failed id be inclined to check the winder motors next before doing more wiring.

As you may or may not know Brush motors draw more current and slow down as they age and sometimes even a simple clean and scrub/lube will bring them back to life and as all things RRC are electromechanical its simple enough although mucky and time consuming.

So you are right about the loom to the door being under spec (Most definitely feeding aged components) but as the loom only feeds one window and the Battery to switchblock feeds Four windows id not fuss over the door loom apart from checking for breaks/cracks until the feed and mechanical aspects are back to a known quantity.

Finally old sub par wire is not exclusive to Land Rover and as it ages you get Verdigris on copper wire (That green stuff) which makes the wire less efficient and raises the resistance which causes heat and allows the magic smoke to escape.
The longer the wire run or the higher current feed the more likely you are to have issues and a simple test with a multimeter will save a lot of trouble shooting.
Most batteries are 13.8 ish volts, Engine running about the same and IMO if the volts are less than that under the dash you have issues and I have found sub 11 volt's at the rear of cars.
The window switch with no load tested at 11.8 and under load dropped to under 10, I will do a no load test at the motor end when I get the doors exposed but im pretty sure that it wont be pretty.

[tony66_au]

Well its been a while as my health took a nose dive and its taken me a bit to get motivated again.

The 86 RRC has had some work including the Fuel Inj system and I now have all the windows working but not working well and the drivers door is sticky as hell so I pulled the bailey channel "Rubber" and it fell apart as I removed it.

LH front door got a second hand motor compliments of British car parts and I have a new unit to go into the drivers door providing the window reg comes up ok after a clean and grease.

I bought new for the drivers door because it will have had far more use but im now chasing a supplier of bailey channel kits for both front doors for the 5mm glass as I hate slow electric windows.

Scotts old rubber have been good for this in the past but since selling their retail premise for ecommerce only its getting hit and miss.

Any recommendations for new bailey channel rubbers?

Im also just about to ditch the twin tank LPG system and concentrate on the lucas FI system.

[tony66_au]

Ordered a few bits and pieces as im revisiting both the 86 and the 83 Rangies and im determined to get them both back up to snuff by Christmas.

The bailey channel is still being a PITA so I got cracking with profiles and measurements after scouring the LR parts suppliers I know of.

In the goody box I have a RHF window reg motor, front and rear washer motors, Clutch slave and master cyl and a few Britpart mugs just coz.

So I rang Scotts old rubber and emailed them rubber profile pics and im waiting on a reply but found a profile thats close in every aspect bar height and theres is a few mm taller (See pic below)

As the main cause for electric window failure and lack of fast glass seems to be the bailey channel rubber im going to order sets for all 4 windows at a cost of around $190 plus freight going by their list prices and i will probably need another set for the 83 manual RRC in a month or so.

Youd think that such a common issue would have suppliers falling over themselves to fill a market niche but as yet im buggered if I can find anyone bar Scotts.

The old channel rubber I removed for a sample is knackered and brittle so id guess its the 30 year old OEM stuff.

Seems the glass is 5mm and it seems all classic to 1989 uses the same bailey channel but thats based on my sitting at the PC googling my head off at 3am in the morning so I could be wrong.

Either way I'll let you know the result, price and availability.

Piccies below.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/293.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160722_20_39_19_Pro_zpslq3d50xl.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/199.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160722_19_08_00_Pro_zpsxxlakwkt.jpg.html)


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/294.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/scotts350.620_zpsjfl8bdjz.jpg.html)

[Homestar]

Good to see you're still plugging along on it. I'm watching with interest with the rubbers as mine need doing too. :)

[tony66_au]

Good to see you're still plugging along on it. I'm watching with interest with the rubbers as mine need doing too. :)

I think any car of ths age delivered to Australia has shot rubbers and they play a pivotal role in the smooth operation of fast glass although i use the word "Fast" advisedly where Lord Lucas, Prince of Darkness is involved.

But, the sheer simplicity of the layout is to be admired and its actually fun working on the Rangies after dealing with Herr Flik and his combination of vacuum, servo's, relays and 40 year old analogue electronics that the Benz's are packed with.

And I get a huge kick when stuff starts doing what its supposed to be doing.

That said I am kinda glad the 83 RRC has Armstrong windows.

And im looking forwards to going for a nice long drive in the thing when its done.

[loanrangie]

Tony did you try Clark Rubber or Rare Spares for the Bailey channel ?

[tony66_au]

Yep, Clark rubber only have 4 profiles and none are even close and Rare Spares gets theirs from Scotts old rubber and dont keep range rover bailey channel.

[tony66_au]

Okay, Latest update on the Bailey Channel rubber..........

Got a reply to friday arvo's email and the profile i grabbed from their doco isnt a rubber profile (Who'd a thunk it eh?)

They did send me the profile they have which is for FRONT only apparently RRC and he stated that the rears changed a bit from year to year and as such they didn't touch em.

Profile of what I ordered and paid for over the phone (YAY!) attached below.

And now i wait and pray because its a leap of faith that the things actually fit.

So this is what I removed

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/199.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160722_19_08_00_Pro_zpsxxlakwkt.jpg.html)

And this is what they are sending...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/200.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/1_zpsh9xhmqpf.jpg.html)

I guess I find out later this week.

[tony66_au]

Okay, Latest update on the Bailey Channel rubber..........

Got a reply to friday arvo's email and the profile i grabbed from their doco isnt a rubber profile (Who'd a thunk it eh?)

They did send me the profile they have which is for FRONT only apparently RRC and he stated that the rears changed a bit from year to year and as such they didn't touch em.

Profile of what I ordered and paid for over the phone (YAY!) attached below.

And now i wait and pray because its a leap of faith that the things actually fit.

So this is what I removed

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/199.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160722_19_08_00_Pro_zpsxxlakwkt.jpg.html)

And this is what they are sending...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/200.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/1_zpsh9xhmqpf.jpg.html)

I guess I find out later this week.

[Homestar]

Fingers crossed - I eagerly await the outcome. :)

[Meccles]

I am thanking my lucky stars that I was able to get enough original Bailey channel from Andrew at LRA it was his last few piecesof door Bailey channel. Enough for both doors on side vertical sections. Now rear sliding windows, the Bailey channel for TOP section..... Is being very hard to find.

[tony66_au]

Land rover?

Quite a bit in the UK I noticed when I was hunting and from a few re-manufacturers.

[tony66_au]

Gave the old girl a bit of work last week hauling my old site van around the yard, a bit low in the bum but the Van weighs heaps and isnt meant to be hauled by anything less than a truck so I think she did well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/125.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160708_15_36_31_Pro_zpsihvubx1v.jpg.html)

[DoubleChevron]

Gave the old girl a bit of work last week hauling my old site van around the yard, a bit low in the bum but the Van weighs heaps and isnt meant to be hauled by anything less than a truck so I think she did well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/125.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160708_15_36_31_Pro_zpsihvubx1v.jpg.html)

The caravan is just a baby .... tow it around for 5minutes and the rangie should lift back to height :)

[tony66_au]

It was hooked up with recovery D shackles and the previous owner extended the chassis at the front a good foot and a bit past the old point so its well out of balance.
Early 60's Jennison Pathfinder commercial.
I had a play with the balance using an engine crane and electronic scales and using the original A frame location she is almost 230 kg lighter so she will be returned to original chassis length before she goes in for rego again.

Im also going to use early series Land Rover tail lights etc for the resto as they fit and look the part.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/123.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/Vans/WP_20151222_12_22_28_Pro_zps4hzim6q7.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/124.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/Vans/WP_20160202_18_58_07_Pro_zpszqnxtx69.jpg.html)

[DoubleChevron]

Interesting, Do you mean the previous owner shortened the drawbar. Wouldn't lengthening make it easier to lift. (think of lifting the same weight, but with a much longer helper bar. Or trying to lift the from from half way downt he AFRAME).

It sounds like it has some seriously heavy gear in the front of the 'van loading the drawbar. Isn't the load leveller designed to lift 450kg ( think loaded back of car, people in the back seat and what ... 150kg ? on the drawbar). so should lift the trailer ok after a 10minute drive.

I wonder where the drawbar weight is coming from ? Does it have full underslung water tanks forward of the axle ?

I moved my fathers caravan a while back with the tongue I welded to the rangies bullbar. I flattened the springs like pancakes..... the axles on the 'van were waaaaaayyyyy to far back. I reckon it must have had 300+kg (empty) on the drawbar. Absolutely ridiculous. I had to use a trolley jack to get it back off the hitch.

seeya,
Shane L.

[tony66_au]

No they lengthened it about 16 inches using rolled flat bar 5mm thick and then welded a huge ring to the end to try and fab a pintle hook setup, the water tank which was at the front is gone but theres quite a bit of junk on the front wall including an old sink, the interior is Masonite and the roof at the front has been patched with sheet steel and id guess a carton of J cart silicone.

The A frame is like a truck chassis in size and gauge of steel too and I have to jack it up to hook on with a trolley jack as I cant budge the thing.

Im stripping it out in a few weeks to store parts, tools and my Work benches so I'll find some of the weight drops but as a single axle and with an epic spec frame im not holding my breath.
Either way the jerry rigged extension comes off so I can make it look legit.

This shows a bit more.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/102.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/Vans/WP_20160202_19_15_43_Pro_zpsqyffexuw.jpg.html)

[DoubleChevron]

No they lengthened it about 16 inches using rolled flat bar 5mm thick and then welded a huge ring to the end to try and fab a pintle hook setup, the water tank which was at the front is gone but theres quite a bit of junk on the front wall including an old sink, the interior is Masonite and the roof at the front has been patched with sheet steel and id guess a carton of J cart silicone.

The A frame is like a truck chassis in size and gauge of steel too and I have to jack it up to hook on with a trolley jack as I cant budge the thing.

Im stripping it out in a few weeks to store parts, tools and my Work benches so I'll find some of the weight drops but as a single axle and with an epic spec frame im not holding my breath.
Either way the jerry rigged extension comes off so I can make it look legit.

This shows a bit more.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/102.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/Vans/WP_20160202_19_15_43_Pro_zpsqyffexuw.jpg.html)

Now that is pretty cool... It's an old bunk 'van ! How on earth is a single axle holding it up if it's that heavy :o

[tony66_au]

It tows straight enough but the chassis is huge, has a fairly decent set of leaves under it too but not knowing a lot about late 50's to early 60's commercial vans all I can go on is childhood memories of MMBW and PMG vans of the era which also had one large wheel with a ring welded on the rim for chaining down.
You say its a Bunk Van which gives me something to look for inside re mounting holes etc and I'll take some interior shots in a few days for more clues if you like but unless they patched the holes well theres no signs of any bunks having been fitted although the window config definitely suggests it.

[Grumbles]

What an absolute ripper of an idea!:cool:
I've been contemplating a similar storage/workshop/hobby storer situation but had no clear cut solution until now.

What is the length and width of such a caravan if you don't mind please?

[tony66_au]

What an absolute ripper of an idea!:cool:
I've been contemplating a similar storage/workshop/hobby storer situation but had no clear cut solution until now.

What is the length and width of such a caravan if you don't mind please?

Its 2360 wide by 6350 in the body and the internal height is a good 6 1/2 feet at my guess.
On wheels no permit required and it will be more secure than a shed.

I will be tidying it up externally too and will try to keep it 60's ish (Hence series LR lights on the rear and sides)

The windows are mostly perspex and if they come apart easily I will replace them with slightly smoked perspex, the front and rear windows are glass though and seals are stuffed so I'll get creative with them in Perspex too.

[tony66_au]

Oh and No Bailey Channel rubbers for RRC yet either :-(

[Grumbles]

Thanks for that....appreciated.

As soon as I saw your pic the scenario of no permit hit me. I have easements on my block which make sheds/garages difficult. I suppose square wooden wheels are still wheels provided they are attached to an axle.........and base boards are merely stone deflectors;)

[tony66_au]

I will end up excavating an 18 inch deep rebate for the wheels when I Pop it next to the shed it currently sits in so it is still movable if I need to and lower to the ground, I use packing sand a bit on the block as I work with Dogs and its easier for Bio control but it also stops grass growing under things and drains well too.

The other option im going to use is this mob, All Aussie, very smart and suitable for use over easements plus it can be enclosed and im thinking one of these over the Van with room to spare and another down the block a bit for car parking.
DIY, easy enough to set up and movable plus their Vic distributor Darren is a good bloke.

https://www.facebook.com/portablesheds/?fref=nf

[DoubleChevron]

[FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="3"]

Its 2360 wide by 6350 in the body and the internal height is a good 6 1/2 feet at my guess.
On wheels no permit required and it will be more secure than a shed.



PPPPPPsssssssttttttt..... Anything towable is the most unsecurable thing known to man. You have to find a way of chaining them down so they can't be towed away.

Everything I've come up with to prevent my caravan and trailers being stolen..... I know I readily circumvent in about 15seconds with a cordless angle grinder with 1mm cutting blade installed.... same deal with a cordless saber saw. Angle grinders eat through padlocks and all sort of toughened metal like melted butter.

I've got hitch locks and chains holding my stuff down. Rather than 15 seconds to cut through the hitch lock... it'll now be 30seconds to cut through both hitchlock then chain.

The only slightly more secure way I can think of it locking them in the shed .... or having a dissabled car (that doesn't ahve wheels so it just can't be pushed out the way) trapping the trailer/caravan in...... Yes, I know, anyone that turns up with probably have something big tow with ... so it will take them 5 minutes rather than 30 seconds. 4:30seconds to snatch/winch the dissabled car out of the way and 30 seconds to cut through the chains.... sigh....

I haven't come up with a sway of securing anything "towable" yet. Any sort of tracker needs to be powered (or charged up every few days)..... if you find a caravan or trailer plugs into a power supply, the first thing anyone stealing it would do is find the tracker and destroy it (why else would it be plugged in).

seeya,
Shane L

[tony66_au]

Depends on where you live I guess,

I have Digital CCTV, lockable front gates, Dogs etc plus towing a huge weird looking Van would draw plenty of attention plus it would be a matter of them having the right hitch setup and 10 or so minutes to get the thing out of where its going to be parked.

Add to the equation that the house is rarely if ever empty for more than 5 minutes and my neighbours on one side would be pretty formidable foes not to mention My wifes particular skill set and I suspect we will be just fine.

Its more the druggie Snatch and grab BS that annoys me and they know better than to set foot on the place.

I work on the principle that Locks only deter honest people.

[350RRC]

[FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="3"]Depends on where you live I guess,.................



Shane lives somewhere around the Rat. Sounds pretty bad.

I have locked gates and there is a friendly young bloke (and his girl) living next door, 30 metres from my shed, who has 2 staffys and a pig dog and a few guns and tatts. :D

Every time I buy something exxy I get really paranoid about theft, but after 5 years it's nada.

Lucky DL

[tony66_au]

Good neighbours are hard to find, I love mine.

Mirboo North isnt a bad area and living in town now has its perks but someone is almost always home and 6 Cameras cover every corner inside the boundary day or night, That and all the kids know me or know of me and as we run a small biz from home theres always someone coming or going so the opportunity would be slim to none.

Last time someone came in for a snoop they spotted 2 of the obvious cameras and suddenly got real shy and buggered off lol, let him know by asking if he wanted to see me or my wife and he looked like id stuck him with a blade and made an excuse he was looking for his dog.

The problem these days are mainly drug related and crimes of opportunity so if you make it difficult or challenging they will usually go elsewhere in my experience.

There are also a few signs lol
"Trespassers will be shot
Survivors will be shot again"

and

"Due to the recent increases in the price of Ammo We will no longer be firing warning shots"

Next time I find myself with $1500 spare though im buying remote gate kits.

[DoubleChevron]

Good neighbours are hard to find, I love mine.

Mirboo North isnt a bad area and living in town now has its perks but someone is almost always home and 6 Cameras cover every corner inside the boundary day or night, That and all the kids know me or know of me and as we run a small biz from home theres always someone coming or going so the opportunity would be slim to none.

Last time someone came in for a snoop they spotted 2 of the obvious cameras and suddenly got real shy and buggered off lol, let him know by asking if he wanted to see me or my wife and he looked like id stuck him with a blade and made an excuse he was looking for his dog.

The problem these days are mainly drug related and crimes of opportunity so if you make it difficult or challenging they will usually go elsewhere in my experience.

There are also a few signs lol
"Trespassers will be shot
Survivors will be shot again"

and

"Due to the recent increases in the price of Ammo We will no longer be firing warning shots"

Next time I find myself with $1500 spare though im buying remote gate kits.

There is a group of kids in Ballarat at the moment stealing and burning cars pretty much every night.... A v8 land rover they'd take in seconds... They generally break into the house to take the keys though.

I did catch a couple last year under my carport in the middle of the night.... None have been back since. They did almost get my old range though ...... As she hurtled across the paddoc at full song towards them .... I had no idea people could get through a barb wire fence so quickly :o

My wife runs to ring the police, but I have a more direct approach that I reckon is far more effective.... that is ... mess with my stuff, and you better hope like hell I'm not there.

I reckon most trailers and caravans would be stolen by opportunist theives... so the simple hitch lock and chains will stop them ... they'll just pinch the next one that is unsecured.

It's really all upto the owner to try and prevent this stuff. A rental place we lived at quite a few years back had a very exotic offroad 4wd camper trailer stolen .... Amazingly he actually found it in somoenes backyard the following day. The fool rang the police.... They refused to enter the premises as they couldn't prove it was his as the numberplate had been removed. They couldn't go in. I think they had to get approval to enter the premises ... it took several days and the trailer was long gone.

Who the hell would ring the police. I'd have checked that it was mine ..... 2.5 tons of land rover in low range at about 30km/h would have hurtled through the fence, hooked my trailer on .... then picked an undamaged bit of fence to leave through. You could only hope they would ring the police when your there hooking it up. Could you really be so lucky ?

seeya,
Shane L.

[tony66_au]

I like the direct approach myself, Leaves a lasting memory.

SO!
This morning I found myself in receipt of some new rubber :-D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/1166.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160801_11_33_34_Pro_zpsecqqmwoy.jpg.html)

And

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/1167.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160801_11_34_24_Pro_zpsjobjurf9.jpg.html)

Just have to fit it now and see how she glides up and down after servicing the regs with some fresh grease.

More to come.............

[tony66_au]

Nice day today so I got stuck in, Fired the old girl up and pulled around to the front of the shed and set to stripping the door.

Been apart before a few times it seems as the plastic was missing and it fell off when I removed the handle screws which were mixed thread and head.

Speaker wires not connected either!

Stripped the rest of the bailey channel rubber out and gave the channel a good clean out, no rust evident.

Bottom sliders showing some rust so they were cleaned up awaiting grease

The reg was inspected with bore scope and I then tested the old window motor which went down fast but was a bit slow even without rubber in the channel so I removed it and refitted the new motor which is turning into a huge PITA.

First hassle was plugging it back into the door loom and there is Zero room in there for my bunch of bananas hands so I pulled the rubber loom sleeve off the door, unclipped the door harness clips and fed the plug out the hole the loom runs out of and into the A Pillar then fed the motor loom out the same hole and eventually plugged it into the loom again ready for its first test.....

Fail! and as it tried but failed I assumed correctly that the motor was binding so I backed off the motor mount bolts and she slid down like a dream and groaned its way back up.

By now Id been at it on and off since 11am and with interruptions I got it half done by 11 pm under halogen light.

So to recap, New motor in, now needs alignment/adjustment, New bailey chan rubber still not fitted.

And of course..... PICCIES!

Old motor no rubber



Pre clean rusty bits

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/485.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160818_12_16_51_Pro_zpsytf3c4sc.jpg.html)

Old left and right Motors

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/486.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160818_12_27_00_Pro_zpsrlhmcbr6.jpg.html)

New Drivers door Motor

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/487.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/tony66_au/media/1986RRC/WP_20160818_12_30_18_Pro_zpsdwa9r0vi.jpg.html)

[tony66_au]

Lets try the Vid link again....


https://youtu.be/cK9-wGnn3_8

[Homestar]

That's waaaay faster than my windows go up! :D

IS that a brand new motor? Is it new old stock or is someone still making them? I haven't checked to even see where they are avialbel from, but I might now. :)

[tony66_au]

That's waaaay faster than my windows go up! :D

IS that a brand new motor? Is it new old stock or is someone still making them? I haven't checked to even see where they are avialbel from, but I might now. :)

Thats actually the Old motor before I took it out BUT there was no Bailey channel rubber in the guides so zero friction on the glass.

Brush motors that use carbon brushes on a stator lose torque/Grunt as the brushes wear and then require heaps more current to work which leads to limitations re wiring gauge or thickness only being able to supply so many amps so they in effect slow right down and stall under load.

With no load bar the weight of the glass and the regulator friction the window buzzes up and down nicely but im pretty sure that with the added friction of the rubber the window will once again slow right down and stall.

The same applies for any Brush motor like Starter motors which when worn will haul HUGE current to do the job and often they seem to do the job albeit a little slower before they eventually fail or fry wire.

The new Motor isnt lined up quite right but I did get it fitted late last night so I didnt shoot video but I will add Vid before and after new rubber.

All of the above reasons illustrate why I am taking this seemingly extreme path to making the windows go up and down leaving nothing to chance.

Huge PITA it is too and my fall back Plan B is to replace the front doors with a set of Manual window doors I have spare.

So more vid to come.

[tony66_au]

Oh and the motor is brand new compliments of Rimmer Bros UK, Im happy to use second hand motors on all but the Drivers door as they are fairly flogged through normal use.

[tony66_au]

Well after a bit more fiddling the Reg is still binding somewhere so its looking like im going to have to pull the window regulator out.
My final step is to see if I can find and exploded view of the reg and motor mounting process to see if theres maybe some shims missing where the motor mounts to the reg as it free's up when the 3 bolts that hold the electric motor to the window reg are loose...

On the bright side I haven't been rained on today and theres no Psychologically scarred wildlife from the swearing....