Caravan Etiquette - is this a thing of the past?

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I remember when I was being taught how to tow loads - including caravans that there was a road etiquette concerning the build up of cars behind you; and the space maintained between the next caravan or trailer.

Namely, that you allowed sufficient space between you and the next towed vehicle to allow a car to overtake - one caravan or trailer at a time.

The second courtesy was once you come to an overtaking lane you let the cars behind you get past BEFORE you overtake the caravan or trailer in front of you.

Coming out of Rockhampton and heading home towards Bundaberg this morning there was a motor home followed by two four wheel drives of Japanese origin that were both towing rather big caravans. Behind these three vehicles there was a build up of at least six cars. Prior to the first set of overtaking lanes cars had to dice with the three recreational vehicles in order to get past them. There was no space between each vehicle to allow safe leap-frogging to get past each of them. It was a case of a job lot of taking on all three vehicles at a time to get past them.

Then once the first set of overtaking lanes came up - you guessed it the crawling Japanese tow vehicles overtook the mobile home.

This left a stream of cars backed up behind the mobile home until the next series of overtaking lanes. :twisted: This included me waiting until the next set of overtaking lanes.

It seems that caravan tow people are not doing themselves any favours nor attempting to improve their reputation. Or maybe I am just too old fashioned and believe in courteous driving :angel:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[justinc]

Mate you are not old fashioned and yes that sort of thing really gets on my goat. I too tow a big van and always let vehicles go first when coming to an overtaking lane. I even slow down a little if need be. There is definately a huge amount of discourteous grey and not so grey nomads out there! !!

Jc

[V8Ian]

Welcome to my word Lionel.:D
In fairness I find most 'vanners courteous, the nomads at least. Victorians seem to be the exception, they can't go caravanning without at least three more like minded adventurers. They insist on driving like a camel train, tight formation so they don't get separated. :wallbash:

[Graeme]

The law requires that you leave overtaking space unless about to overtake yourself.

As for the vans overtaking first, its much safer for the vans to use the overtaking lanes and let single vehicles overtake after the overtaking lane if necessary. However taking all the overtaking lane to get past is poor manners - trucks too often do this too. Best if the slow vehicle up front slows more to allow all vehicles to pass.

[pop058]

:D;):angel:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/615.jpg

[Aaron IIA]

Recommended minimum gap between any two vehicles at any time is two seconds. Legally required minimum gap between any two long vehicles is two hundred metres. If this is adhered to, there would be plenty of room to overtake.

Aaron

[Chenz]

In a similar vein, I tow a boat a 6.2 metre Barcrusher up and down the coast. The number of times I get overtaken and then have the car slow down to a speed below that at which I was going is staggering.

Next overtaking lane I have to go past them and you guessed it, they speed up because they don't want to be behind a boat.

This gets even more annoying on the multi lane Freeways where they hop past you then do the same thing, you pass them and then they pass you and slow down and on and on it goes.

I can sit on the speed limit on the flat but do move over to the slow lane when going up hill and I always allow cars to pass where it is safe to do so. If they give me a yell on the UHF I can even work out the best place for them to pass and get them by ASAP.

[Jeff]

Remember the Caravanner's Code. It's not about the journey, or even the destination, it's about how many cars you can hold up on the way there. :o

Jeff

:rocket:

[LandyAndy]

Overtaking lanes,here we go.

THEY ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE TO BUILD!!!!!!,we could utilise them much more efficiently with a change of rules and speed limits.

Modern roadtrains can hold their 100kmh uphil on most overtaking lanes.The issue here,the police prey on overtaking lanes,so now people overtake these behemoths at 110kmh in fear of a ticket.1,maybe 2 vehicles get past,total waste of an overtaking lane:mad::mad::mad::mad:.

Caravans,especialy towed by anything less than a D4 are lucky to maintain 80kmh,or even less:p:p:p:p:p:p at least we get a few more vehicles past.

My thoughts.Limit heavy vehicles to 80kmh and over 750kg trailers to 60kmh on these overtaking lanes,also increase the vehicle speed to say 130kmh only in the overtaking lane(after all we ALL have been doing it for years).

This way the investment in the overtaking lane gets maximised.It wont cause much grief to truckies,they are smart enough to chat to one another on overtaking lanes/safe overtaking areas and back off to let a stronger truck around.It would help clear the backlog of traffic behind vans and trucks,and also help trucks get by vans.
Andrew

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Gees you guys get upset over little things,,
There are a million more obnoxious car drivers than obnoxious caravaners.
What is it with you that you HATE people obviously on holidays?? Its not our fault you only have a long weekend and decide to drive a thousand kays each way,,,
Why should I let you pass someone I've been following for the last 100kays??

So common courtesy is pushing in to the front of the line?

If you all worry about your reputation as car drivers (and you all do,, right?) do you think the not car drivers care?

exactly.

[vnx205]

One reason etiquette like that is a thing of the past is that roads, cars and our expectations have all changed.

Because roads and cars are so good now. we expect to be able to get to our destination at an average speed close to the legal limit. Consequently we are not prepared to tolerate anything that adds a minute or two to our travel time.

Things used to be different. Shortly after the middle of last century, Dad had a 30cwt Commer truck. With a canopy on the tray it serves as family transport as well as Dad's work truck. It had a top speed of 45mph and that was when it had 20" rims. I have no idea how much slower it was when Dad fitted 16" wheels.

No-one seemed to think there was anything exceptional about a vehicle that travelled so slowly and I certainly don't remember ever seeing a line of frustrated drivers behind us even when we were towing an 18' van.

When we took the van to South West Rocks, we had to time the trip so that when we arrived at the ferry at Frederickton (I think), it was high tide. Otherwise there were problems with clearance because of the angle of the ramp on the ferry.

Once again, we didn't think there was anything unusual about that. Would people accept such an inconvenience today?

Now that our expectations have become so much higher, we have become intolerant.

[cafe latte]

One reason etiquette like that is a thing of the past is that roads, cars and our expectations have all changed.

Because roads and cars are so good now. we expect to be able to get to our destination at an average speed close to the legal limit. Consequently we are not prepared to tolerate anything that adds a minute or two to our travel time.

Things used to be different. Shortly after the middle of last century, Dad had a 30cwt Commer truck. With a canopy on the tray it serves as family transport as well as Dad's work truck. It had a top speed of 45mph and that was when it had 20" rims. I have no idea how much slower it was when Dad fitted 16" wheels.

No-one seemed to think there was anything exceptional about a vehicle that travelled so slowly and I certainly don't remember ever seeing a line of frustrated drivers behind us even when we were towing an 18' van.

When we took the van to South West Rocks, we had to time the trip so that when we arrived at the ferry at Frederickton (I think), it was high tide. Otherwise there were problems with clearance because of the angle of the ramp on the ferry.

Once again, we didn't think there was anything unusual about that. Would people accept such an inconvenience today?

Now that our expectations have become so much higher, we have become intolerant.
But it is not really about arriving a few minutes later.. On my recent trip to Brisbane we were driving 6-7 hours a day as we could not leave the farm earlier and we needed to arrive in time for the competition we were in. Anyway I got stuck behind a backpacker doing 85km/h and he increased his speed up to 105-110 at overtaking lanes which was seriously annoying, eventually I got past him doing 125km/h. My point though is if I travel 15km/h slower for the whole day that is 15km an hour I travel less and in 7 hours that is 105km less so I would have to drive over an hour more to finish my journey. This makes my very tiring 7 hour drive into a very long more than 8 hour drive. It also means arriving in the dark not in the light too.
Chris

[pop058]

"Let overtaking vehicles pass" signs are starting to appear at the beginning of overtaking lanes here in Qld.

Not that people take any notice of them :mad:

[Fatso]

[QUOTE=cafe latte;2420722] as we could not leave the farm earlier .


This I believe is a contributing factor in our road use today , one cant nominate a drive time and expect that no holdups in the journey will occur ! .

[alien]

The following is a summation of many a conversation had at happy hour in any caravan park.


I can't believe how rude some people can be either.
The other day I was happily sitting on 78Km/h on the single lane sections of the road getting here.
As we all know it's the best pace for fuel economy and with on coming traffic it's to dangerous to go quicker with a tandem van.
On the overtaking lanes I speed up so I don't hold up the traffic.
These lanes are wider so it's safer to drive quicker and usually flat or down hill so use momentum keep the economy to 16/100.
Once back to single lanes the amount of cars passing on the double lines is staggering!
At least half honk their horn and some give the bird.
What's that about?
I always try to do the right thing by those following.

[Jeff]

Post deleted.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Anyway I got stuck behind a backpacker doing 85km/h and he increased his speed up to 105-110 at overtaking lanes which was seriously annoying, eventually I got past him doing 125km/h. My point though is if I travel 15km/h slower for the whole day that is 15km an hour I travel less and in 7 hours that is 105km less so I would have to drive over an hour more to finish my journey. This makes my very tiring 7 hour drive into a very long more than 8 hour drive. It also means arriving in the dark not in the light too.

Chris

Valid concerns. My biggest gripe (out here in the 'country' at least)n is consistency of speed. I'll happily sit on cruise at 95 in a 100 zone if needed... BUT when the knob jockey in front is all over the place speed wise, even with the 3 second gap, it's just a lapse of concentration on a long and arduous journey to rear end someone. This doesn't just go for caravans, but also hatchbacks, sedans, 4x4's, MR/HR etc.




The following is a summation of many a conversation had at happy hour in any caravan park.





I can't believe how rude some people can be either.

The other day I was happily sitting on 78Km/h on the single lane sections of the road getting here.

As we all know it's the best pace for fuel economy and with on coming traffic it's to dangerous to go quicker with a tandem van.

On the overtaking lanes I speed up so I don't hold up the traffic.

These lanes are wider so it's safer to drive quicker and usually flat or down hill so use momentum keep the economy to 16/100.

Once back to single lanes the amount of cars passing on the double lines is staggering!

At least half honk their horn and some give the bird.

What's that about?

I always try to do the right thing by those following.



I'm putting two and two together with your statement above, and noting that it's not your own personal actions, but those of the poeple you talk with at caravan parks. Sadly, the attitude of those people are part of the problem. And most of my annoyance is directed at them.

Again, consistency of speed is what is needed.. not a stupiod game of leap frog / rolling start drag races as soon as the overtaking lane comes up.




I find it nuts that someone who spends $100,000 on a 200 Series Toyota and $60,000 + on a van then would travel at 80 to conserve fuel.



I believe I was also caught behind that backpacker on the Nullabor doing 85 until you try to overtake.



Jeff



:rocket:



I crunched the sums on a 100 series cruiser, I was in a position to buy a 4.5l petrol model for 15K less than the equivalent age / km diesel model. The saving equated to a lot of diesel.



There are many underpowered cars towing out there. On the Newell Hwy last week there was a number of vans being towed by the usual mitsubishi Magnas, Ford falcons and other smaller vahicles. lf It were me, I'd do the smart thing and get a proper commercial vehicle to tow a large load- a nice powerstroke F350 running duallies, rollin' coal all over the mofos holding me up.



Or this...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GowJeGcf_Kk

[Mick_Marsh]

Again, consistency of speed is what is needed.
I know an elderly lady who is very consistent with her speed.
She drives at 80km/h in a 100km/h zone.
She drives at 80km/h in a 80km/h zone.
She drives at 80km/h in a 60km/h zone.

And the police reward her consistent driving with speeding fines.

[Toxic_Avenger]

I know an elderly lady who is very consistent with her speed.
She drives at 80km/h in a 100km/h zone.
She drives at 80km/h in a 80km/h zone.
She drives at 80km/h in a 60km/h zone.

And the police reward her consistent driving with speeding fines.

I meant consistency within a speed zone, smart alec ;)

[weeds]

I think we will have to just suck it up....it's only going to get busier on the roads and the government cannot afford to upgrade them

I was in the saddle for six hours today and caravaners were the best behaved by far..........sure a couple of them were cruising along at 90/95 but the other were close enough to 100 (I was sitting on 105 GPS) so caught plenty. One truck driver called up three vans that had CH40 on the back of there van, only one replied (makes me wonder why they fit the sticker). The B Double did overtake on double white and cut a car off. Motor bikes were by far the worst today.

Two caravans slowed right up on overtaking lanes to help out.....another pulled over when he had a chance. I even let the B-Double know I was rounding him up (probably contributed to the questionable driving by 4WD today...we both knew what was happening).

I always plan my travel times around averaging 80-85km/hr for the trip......that way I don't get frustrated

[Ausfree]

One reason etiquette like that is a thing of the past is that roads, cars and our expectations have all changed.

Because roads and cars are so good now. we expect to be able to get to our destination at an average speed close to the legal limit. Consequently we are not prepared to tolerate anything that adds a minute or two to our travel time.

Things used to be different. Shortly after the middle of last century, Dad had a 30cwt Commer truck. With a canopy on the tray it serves as family transport as well as Dad's work truck. It had a top speed of 45mph and that was when it had 20" rims. I have no idea how much slower it was when Dad fitted 16" wheels.

No-one seemed to think there was anything exceptional about a vehicle that travelled so slowly and I certainly don't remember ever seeing a line of frustrated drivers behind us even when we were towing an 18' van.

When we took the van to South West Rocks, we had to time the trip so that when we arrived at the ferry at Frederickton (I think), it was high tide. Otherwise there were problems with clearance because of the angle of the ramp on the ferry.

Once again, we didn't think there was anything unusual about that. Would people accept such an inconvenience today?

Now that our expectations have become so much higher, we have become intolerant.

Mate, you brought back memories of my father back in 1953 towing a homemade caravan to Brisbane and back to Newcastle with a 1948 Prefect. Can you imagine how slow that would be, particularly up hills. Wouldn't survive in todays hustle and bustle traffic.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/571.jpg (http://s756.photobucket.com/user/Ausfree/media/img019_zps225f1505.jpg.html)

That's me, leaning against the caravan, with mum and little brother!!:D

[pop058]

Mate, you brought back memories of my father back in 1953 towing a homemade caravan to Brisbane and back to Newcastle with a 1948 Prefect. Can you imagine how slow that would be, particularly up hills. Wouldn't survive in todays hustle and bustle traffic.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/571.jpg (http://s756.photobucket.com/user/Ausfree/media/img019_zps225f1505.jpg.html)

That's me, leaning against the caravan, with mum and little brother!!:D

you haven't changed abit Jim, maybe a little taller :p

[incisor]

The number of times I get overtaken and then have the car slow down to a speed below that at which I was going is staggering..
feel your pain!

the stretch on the bruce between between gympie and maryborough abounds in these truly delightful drivers..

did a run to hervey bay and tuan last week and they were out in force yet again.

coming back i took all the dirt roads i could between tuan and gympie for a change and enjoyed it immensely... very relaxing and some lovely scenery as well...

[goingbush]

Good stratergy Inc, we tow a Caravan full time, and take all the dirt roads we can - to keep away from all the bloody caravans !!

this is all done whilst towing the caravan. Apologies If I have caused frustration for following vehicles, but rarely has anyone ever needed to pass us .

https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=d2b355581d79250e8

[incisor]

https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=d2b355581d79250e8

in my nicest possible, hope they don't take offense voice.....

YOU SUCK FELLA!

i don't look good in green ....

more power too you! i just wish i was born with half a clue.....

[LandyAndy]

Good stratergy Inc, we tow a Caravan full time, and take all the dirt roads we can - to keep away from all the bloody caravans !!

this is all done whilst towing the caravan. Apologies If I have caused frustration for following vehicles, but rarely has anyone ever needed to pass us .

https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=d2b355581d79250e8

Ive been everywhere man!!!!!
IMPRESSIVE.
Andrew

[Eevo]

Overtaking lanes,here we go.

THEY ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE TO BUILD!!!!!!,we could utilise them much more efficiently with a change of rules and speed limits.

Modern roadtrains can hold their 100kmh uphil on most overtaking lanes.The issue here,the police prey on overtaking lanes,so now people overtake these behemoths at 110kmh in fear of a ticket.1,maybe 2 vehicles get past,total waste of an overtaking lane:mad::mad::mad::mad:.

Caravans,especialy towed by anything less than a D4 are lucky to maintain 80kmh,or even less:p:p:p:p:p:p at least we get a few more vehicles past.

My thoughts.Limit heavy vehicles to 80kmh and over 750kg trailers to 60kmh on these overtaking lanes,also increase the vehicle speed to say 130kmh only in the overtaking lane(after all we ALL have been doing it for years).

This way the investment in the overtaking lane gets maximised.It wont cause much grief to truckies,they are smart enough to chat to one another on overtaking lanes/safe overtaking areas and back off to let a stronger truck around.It would help clear the backlog of traffic behind vans and trucks,and also help trucks get by vans.
Andrew

LandyAndy for transport minister!

a question though, why are they so expensive to build?

[Eevo]

towing a caravan should be a separate licence.
no longer a car or a rigid vehicle.


not that it will help with their etiquette or following the road rules.

[alien]

LandyAndy for transport minister!

a question though, why are they so expensive to build?
Easy to answer...
Grader drivers charge a small fortune as they want top end cars to play with:angel:

[Eevo]

Easy to answer...
Grader drivers charge a small fortune as they want top end cars to play with:angel:

yet it wasn't (relatively) expensive to build the road?

[DiscoMick]

I'm another one who gets annoyed by people who travel slowly so you pass them, and then they speed up and rush past you, pull back in front and slow down again. Seems like pure ego to me.
The Defender will happily tow our camper at 100 km/h, and I keep left on multi-lanes and leave a vehicle length in front when ever possible, but its amazing how many people assume anyone who is towing is slower than them and take risks to get past.
I was in a bus last Friday and the driver was complaining about the number of people who pull in front of buses without leaving enough safety space. Just then a bloke did exactly that, shoved his Commode in front so close the bus driver had to brake and gave him a hornfull, and then blithely speeded up and weaved his way around several other vehicles up ahead. Just dangerous, selfish driving.

[Tombie]

On the back of the Jurgens...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99243&stc=1&d=1442203305

[Ausfree]

towing a caravan should be a separate licence.
no longer a car or a rigid vehicle.


not that it will help with their etiquette or following the road rules.

Have to agree there, if you tow anything bigger than a box trailor, your licence should be endorsed for caravans (if it is only a car licence) after sitting for a test and satisfying the RTA road examiner that you can safely drive towing said caravan. That would eliminate a lot of the "Grey Nomads", who just frustrate other road users.

[Chucaro]

Good stratergy Inc, we tow a Caravan full time, and take all the dirt roads we can - to keep away from all the bloody caravans !!

this is all done whilst towing the caravan. Apologies If I have caused frustration for following vehicles, but rarely has anyone ever needed to pass us .

https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=d2b355581d79250e8

an we like to see a few photos of each spot :p

:ttiwwp:

[Redback]

Good stratergy Inc, we tow a Caravan full time, and take all the dirt roads we can - to keep away from all the bloody caravans !!

this is all done whilst towing the caravan. Apologies If I have caused frustration for following vehicles, but rarely has anyone ever needed to pass us .

https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=d2b355581d79250e8

Ya missed a bit:p

Baz.

[Fatso]

Just as well some of the commenters here are not mixing it with caravans in the EU where load factors and max speeds are more restricted than here , they would pop a blood vessel . They also have stricter licensing Req than here to tow a van .


Trouble in Oz is a lot of drivers think the max speed limit is a challenge or a speed that must be adhered to at all costs over hill and dale .


Driving on our roads used to be a pleasure once but not anymore in most places , are well Tinny time soon we will have arrived , windows up sunny,s on and don't let the seagulls pinch your chips .

[goingbush]

Ya missed a bit:p

Baz.

working on that right now :D

[goingbush]

an we like to see a few photos of each spot :p

:ttiwwp:

will see what I can do :)


each green dot is a campsite / overnight stop , the default map is populated with 1% of tracking information, you can go to adjustments and populate it 100% for a more detailed look !!

[Eevo]

Trouble in Oz is a lot of drivers think the max speed limit is a challenge or a speed that must be adhered to at all costs over hill and dale .


some drivers think obstructing traffic is a challenge, not a law.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Have to agree there, rant obnoxious rant discriminatory rant other road users.

So much hate,,
Did a caravan scare you when you were a child?
Have you lost a loved one due to "caravan road rage"?

so, you get your wish and grey nomads can no longer drive.

whats your next crusade?
Immigration?
The thinning out of the Master Race?

I mean,, if you are going to discriminate, why not go for your biggies?

:censored::censored::censored::censored::2up:

[Eevo]

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][COLOR="Gray"][SIZE="4"]

So much hate,,
Did a caravan scare you when you were a child?
Have you lost a loved one due to "caravan road rage"?

so, you get your wish and grey nomads can no longer drive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwy5Sw88Fx4

[Eevo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi-5lMlRabc

[Eevo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB74LJXAKYc

[Eevo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgRXi2svWPU

[Fatso]

some drivers think obstructing traffic is a challenge, not a law.



Agree !!!!!!

[Tombie]

I don't think that's the point Pedro..

Many go their entire lives towing nothing or just a 6x4 trailer.
Then retire, grab a vehicle, throw 3.5t of van on and off they go.

Whilst there are people with natural ability many don't have this, and a few should *never* be given a ticket to tow.

To be ticketed for anything - high risk work, driving, firearms etc there is a criteria that must be demonstrated (competency based training and assessment).

If people wish to tow a combination of vehicle/trailer that exceeds a certain:
- length
- Tare
- GCM

They should be required to demonstrate that capability. Just like a HA or MC licence requires demonstrated ability to tow, turn, brake and reverse (lost count how many times I've seen caravaners drive on or leave a park that didn't have any drive through parking spaces).

4.5t Light trucks requires a road test, why should 6t of articulated vehicle be any different?

And yes, some people without the right skills should be denied the licence.

[Ausfree]

So much hate,,
Did a caravan scare you when you were a child?
Have you lost a loved one due to "caravan road rage"?

so, you get your wish and grey nomads can no longer drive.

whats your next crusade?
Immigration?
The thinning out of the Master Race?

I mean,, if you are going to discriminate, why not go for your biggies?

:censored::censored::censored::censored::2up:

Ha, ha ,water off a ducks back!!!!:D:D

[Ausfree]

I don't think that's the point Pedro..

Many go their entire lives towing nothing or just a 6x4 trailer.
Then retire, grab a vehicle, throw 3.5t of van on and off they go.

Whilst there are people with natural ability many don't have this, and a few should *never* be given a ticket to tow.

To be ticketed for anything - high risk work, driving, firearms etc there is a criteria that must be demonstrated (competency based training and assessment).

If people wish to tow a combination of vehicle/trailer that exceeds a certain:
- length
- Tare
- GCM

They should be required to demonstrate that capability. Just like a HA or MC licence requires demonstrated ability to tow, turn, brake and reverse (lost count how many times I've seen caravaners drive on or leave a park that didn't have any drive through parking spaces).

4.5t Light trucks requires a road test, why should 6t of articulated vehicle be any different?

And yes, some people without the right skills should be denied the licence.

Spot on, Tombie and spoken with reason and common sense!!!:D

[Tombie]

Spot on, and spoken with reason and common sense!!!:D


I have my moments.

[Ausfree]

I have my moments.

And this moment IS a good one!!:thumbsup:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

:rolleyes::toilet::p

[loneranger]

I don't think that's the point Pedro..

Many go their entire lives towing nothing or just a 6x4 trailer.
Then retire, grab a vehicle, throw 3.5t of van on and off they go.

Whilst there are people with natural ability many don't have this, and a few should *never* be given a ticket to tow.

To be ticketed for anything - high risk work, driving, firearms etc there is a criteria that must be demonstrated (competency based training and assessment).

If people wish to tow a combination of vehicle/trailer that exceeds a certain:
- length
- Tare
- GCM

They should be required to demonstrate that capability. Just like a HA or MC licence requires demonstrated ability to tow, turn, brake and reverse (lost count how many times I've seen caravaners drive on or leave a park that didn't have any drive through parking spaces).

4.5t Light trucks requires a road test, why should 6t of articulated vehicle be any different?

And yes, some people without the right skills should be denied the licence.

Totally agree with this. When we upgraded our camper trailer we considered a caravan but ultimately I didn't want to tow one considering my limited experience.

[Chucaro]

So much hate,,
Did a caravan scare you when you were a child?
Have you lost a loved one due to "caravan road rage"?

so, you get your wish and grey nomads can no longer drive.

whats your next crusade?
Immigration?
The thinning out of the Master Race?

I mean,, if you are going to discriminate, why not go for your biggies?

:censored::censored::censored::censored::2up:
Pedro, looks like that some people would like to "Stop the Caravans" :D

[Pocket Rocket]

towing a caravan should be a separate licence.
no longer a car or a rigid vehicle.

I agree. I am learning to tow our camper trailer and will not tow unsupervised until I'm confident that I can get myself out of an emergency.

It beggars belief the number of people I know of who have only every worked office jobs their whole life, get a huge redundancy package upon retirement, go and buy the biggest caravan they can and then proceed to tow it around in an under powered vehicle with zero towing experience.

When I asked one of these people how their car could manage the weight he said that they'd only be going at 80km/hr and wouldn't be filling the water tanks.

Our son can tow anything but he was trained to tow when he was on his logbooks as he's a tradesman.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Years back I was waiting at the RTA (as you did back then, before the online offer), and got talking to a bloke who was collecting 10 number plates and had a fist full of rego papers. Turns out he was registering caravans for resale.
In talking he said they build / repair caravans, and that there were some shocking drivers out there. He mentioned the record was about 3 hours- a guy picked up a brand new van, drove it out of the lot, and returned 3 hours later with the thing opened up like a sardine can because he cut a corner too tight.

As I like to say... "all the gear, No idea" :no2:

[DoubleChevron]

More than training .... You just need a brain.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1161422170541907

This ones a good one, I could see me doing this 'cos I didn't notice the road camber. in the very first 5seconds they have seen the problem. Even from the video I can see there is ONLY ONE WAY to get that caravan back on the street.... That is sending the boss women up the road .... quite some distance to stop the traffic for me. While I back out on a very shallow angle ..... infact the same exact angle I entered the park on. Forward isn't an option as the caravan isn't straight, it'll snare the front pole before it straightens out (plus you'd need the 3 cars minimum infront of you out of the way).

If I had too ... I'd have waited hours ..... to make the space I needed .... Do these people own a brain at all :wasntme: Imagine someone that thinks that's the way to pull out of a park hurtling down the road at 110km/h with the cruise control on while towing :eek:

seeya,
Shane L.

[Tombie]

That videos a cracker isn't it Shane....
Besides damaging their camper they damaged the building for some poor owner to have to fix.

I hope they were caught and made to pay for it as well.

[Homestar]

The other thing about this video that amazes me is how LAZY some people are. I would never dream of pulling up in the Main Street with my van - it's a foot wider than the one in the video for a start, but I try and find a good park at the edge of town and walk. I've usually been sitting down for hours anyway so walking 5 or 10 minutes each way is a good way to get the circulation going. I certainly wouldn't pull up next to a structure like that.

Fools like this deserve what they get. Yes, I hope they were found and issued with the costs of the building repair.

And yes, there should be some basic testing at least for people who want to tow trailers - they should be able to back their trailers on their mirrors and understand how the weight of their trailer/van effects how their tow vehicle and brakes operate.

[vnx205]

While on the surface it seems logical that drivers should have to demonstrate their competence before being allowed to take to the roads in control of 5 or 6 tonnes of vehicles, I wonder where the line needs to be drawn.

Should the same test be required to tow a boat trailer with a 4 metre tinny on board, or a bike trailer carrying one motorcycle?

Since there have been cases of young drivers losing control of small sedans because of a combination of youthful enthusiasm and the impact on the car's handling of extra passengers, should drivers have to demonstrate that they can drive a Kia Rio with a full compliment of passengers and several cartons of stubbies (or an extra passenger) in the boot.

The effect of such a load on the Kia's handling would be much greater than the effect of an empty 6'x4' box trailer behind a large 4WD.

Where do we draw the line?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Dont forget horse floats,,
or people hiring car trailers,,

and from what I read the limit for "driving a truck on a car licence" is 3T.
so if we take that as our min/max weight,,
that will now also include all you D4 owners that are overweight,,

its a slippery slope,,

[Redback]

While on the surface it seems logical that drivers should have to demonstrate their competence before being allowed to take to the roads in control of 5 or 6 tonnes of vehicles, I wonder where the line needs to be drawn.

Should the same test be required to tow a boat trailer with a 4 metre tinny on board, or a bike trailer carrying one motorcycle?

Since there have been cases of young drivers losing control of small sedans because of a combination of youthful enthusiasm and the impact on the car's handling of extra passengers, should drivers have to demonstrate that they can drive a Kia Rio with a full compliment of passengers and several cartons of stubbies (or an extra passenger) in the boot.

The effect of such a load on the Kia's handling would be much greater than the effect of an empty 6'x4' box trailer behind a large 4WD.

Where do we draw the line?

I pretty sure it would be weight related, not just because you're towing, as with trucks at 4.5t, if you need an upgrade to drive any truck over 4.5t, then it should be the same for car and caravan/trailer combination over 4.5t AND have some artic training/acceditation also.

As for just towing a box/boat/bike trailer, dunno, but my personel view, if you can't reverse a trailer, you should not be able to tow one.

What gets on my goat with the van brigade, is towing without extended mirrors, a reversing camera is NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!

Baz.

[Fatso]

Chee,s , It would make my day all I had to put up with on our roads was Old Farts towing caravans .

[p38arover]

and from what I read the limit for "driving a truck on a car licence" is 3T.
so if we take that as our min/max weight,,
that will now also include all you D4 owners that are overweight,

4.5 t

From Qld Transport, it might be argued that this weight limit of 4.5 t GVM applies to the car and trailer even though I'd expect the term GCM to be used if it did.


Class C - A motor vehicle (with or without a trailer), other than a motorcycle, that:
has a maximum weight of 4.5 tonne (t) gross vehicle mass (GVM)

[Redback]

and from what I read the limit for "driving a truck on a car licence" is 3T.
so if we take that as our min/max weight,,
that will now also include all you D4 owners that are overweight,,

its a slippery slope,,

Hey this is about you lot, you leave us D4 owners alone:mad:

[Eevo]

its a slippery slope,,[/SIZE]

traction control :)

[DoubleChevron]

Dont forget horse floats,,
or people hiring car trailers,,

and from what I read the limit for "driving a truck on a car licence" is 3T.
so if we take that as our min/max weight,,
that will now also include all you D4 owners that are overweight,,

its a slippery slope,,

Horse and animal floats are the most dangerous thing you can swing from the back of a car. Imagine two horse that weigh in at close to 1ton each ..... managing to take a step or two backwards. Suddenly you go from 200kgs on your tongue to minus 50kg on the tongue ................................. 20seconds later your shiny side down ont he side of the road.

Car trailers concern me less than caravans etc.... I seem to be able to load them to get some good nose weight there... and they don't seem to be effected by wind or passing traffic as they don't have the "sail effect" of the big box like caravans.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/536.jpg

I can't wait to drop this huge bastard on the old rangies towbar and head off travelling.... I figure around 80km/h is a perfect speed too. Water tanks sure will be full.... as will every cupboard knowing my wife too :wasntme:

I have no need for reversing cameras ... Nice big mirrors are a must. You see, if I'm going backwards, there will sure be a spotter behind me to yell out if I'm going to hit anything. 'Cos from the drivers seat you have no idea. Plus ..... It's a caravan .... caravan parks have lots of kids around them. Would you go backing something 28foot long and 10foot high without someone ensuring your not about to squish kids etc.. :eek:

seeya,
Shane L.

[goingbush]

Ive got a heavy Combo licence (semi trailer), and I can tell you reversing a semi (or a 5th wheeler) is very easy compared to backing a caravan .

My full time occupation for the last 3 years has been towing a van around Australia and some of that includes mandatory stops in caravan parks - you get to see it all . I'm estimating that if there was licence category testing for caravans then that would conservatively remove 60% of vans from the road.

I'd say 70% have no idea how to reverse. I see about 5% reverse perfectly into a site , I often need about 2 or 3 cracks to get it right.

As for big vans and small tow vehicles - a disaster waiting to happen , if you can't safely tow at the speed limit the combination should not be allowed on the road. Now with ESC in vans , inherently dangerous loads are being covered up by electronic countermeasures - bad move.

IMO the whole industry needs a shake up .

this is our setup.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/535.jpg

[DoubleChevron]

Ive got a heavy Combo licence (semi trailer), and I can tell you reversing a semi (or a 5th wheeler) is very easy compared to backing a caravan .

My full time occupation for the last 3 years has been towing a van around Australia and some of that includes mandatory stops in caravan parks - you get to see it all . I'm estimating that if there was licence category testing for caravans then that would conservatively remove 60% of vans from the road.

I'd say 70% have no idea how to reverse. I see about 5% reverse perfectly into a site , I often need about 2 or 3 cracks to get it right.

As for big vans and small tow vehicles - a disaster waiting to happen , if you can't safely tow at the speed limit the combination should not be allowed on the road. Now with ESC in vans , inherently dangerous loads are being covered up by electronic countermeasures - bad move.


IMO the whole industry needs a shake up .

this is our setup.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/535.jpg

Wow ... what a setup. I reckon speed *is* an issue for even a well setup caravan. I figure 80km/h will be fine for my setup. You see the factory setup this caravan right. The weight is in the middle, kitchen, fridge and water tank are over the axles. The lightweight bedding is at the ends.

So long as I concentrate all the weight over the axles we shoudl be set. ie: nothing in those cupboards at the back edge of the 'van. I'll also remove the rear bumper mounted spare. I see no reason to have 20kgs swinging from the very rear edge of the caravan. (I wonder if you can mount it underneath between the axles too).

Those new heavy caravans with kitchens, washing machines and batteries, gas bottles, generators etc... at the ends really concern me. There inherently unsafe at speed. Two big heavy 4wd sized spare wheels hanging off the rear bumpers is absolute insanity!

Though the caravan I have is huge ... it also only weighs about 1600kg ... We would probably be looking at about 2tons or a bit over all loaded up. Which being towed by a car that weighs 2.5tons should be as safe as I can hope for.

seeya,
Shane L.

[DiscoMick]

Gotta agree there should be a basic towing test in the standard driving test, maybe to back a box trailer. You only have to go to the tip when they're loading free mulch to see some wild backing demonstrations.

[DoubleChevron]

Gotta agree there should be a basic towing test in the standard driving test, maybe to back a box trailer. You only have to go to the tip when they're loading free mulch to see some wild backing demonstrations.

Is there anything more difficult to back than a box trailer LOL... If you can back one of them, you can back **anything** :wasntme:

Actually .... I know of one thing. Have you ever tried backing a jetski trailer down a ramp that doesn't have a jetski on it. They are invisible.... you can't see them until they have jackknifed and punched a hole into your rear quater panel :wasntme:

seeya,
Shane L.

[Chucaro]

Gotta agree there should be a basic towing test in the standard driving test, maybe to back a box trailer. You only have to go to the tip when they're loading free mulch to see some wild backing demonstrations.

I understand what you people said about the skills needed to towing a caravan and a possible test to get a permit. But where you drawn a line?
How many car drivers know to brake or control a car in wet road?
How many times you see people driving erratic during rain because they are not sure about their skills to drive a car in that conditions.
Are we going to introduce an advance driving course with a test to all the drivers?
We cannot.
In my opinion a driver that first ride a motorbike in all conditions make a better driver and would be good to have that experience before drive a car.

Perhaps the solution regarding caravans and large trailers will be for the dealers to offer test by qualified operators by a affordable fee.

[460cixy]

Another reason for a towing licence this pic is one I took in the mall car park he got a mouth full for his efforts from alot of passing folk that pile of crap on the ground the the remains of the a/c unit
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/532.jpg

[vnx205]

Gotta agree there should be a basic towing test in the standard driving test, maybe to back a box trailer. You only have to go to the tip when they're loading free mulch to see some wild backing demonstrations.

So what are we going to do about the people I have seen with a driver's licence who who can't back a small sedan into a parallel parking spot? :)

[460cixy]

So what are we going to do about the people I have seen with a driver's licence who who can't back a small sedan into a parallel parking spot? :)

Remove there licence

[SSmith]

Should it be legislated that you have to be have an extra endorsment?
Is that entering the relm of nanny state?

It is, and always has been, operator onus, duty of care, common sense (call it what you will) if you dont know how to tow a caravan then go and find out.

The evidence clearly suggests that this system is not working. People are happy to learn the hard way and put others at risk because they want to be lazy, ignorant or cheap. Training can address a skill gap, but can do very little fix an attitude problem.

Sent from my GT-S7562L using AULRO mobile app

[DoubleChevron]

Another reason for a towing licence this pic is one I took in the mall car park he got a mouth full for his efforts from alot of passing folk that pile of crap on the ground the the remains of the a/c unit
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/532.jpg

What sort of moron takes a full height caravan into any carpark that has a roof. full height caravan are bloody high!

When I'm towing anything like a caravan I'm very wary of entering somewhere I'll get stuck. I'd certainly never drive into any sort of shopping complex with the caravan still on just incase I drive around a corner and get confronted with exactly that issue (obviously I wouldn't drive under the clearance indicator .... so I'd be basically "stuck" and would block the access road to all.

seeya,
Shane L.

[460cixy]

It must have cleared the boom on the way in but not the way out I was blown away by the stupidity brand new van too with the wife looking none too happy and two teen girls trying to hide from the embarrassment

[jonesfam]

During the tourist season I follow a lot of caravans on my drives to & from work.
90% of the Caravan towers are very considerate drivers & more than happy to assist you with overtaking. Some don't understand bush, single lane or gravel driving but most are fine.
Now the Hilux full of the lads with the boat off the back & headed for the Gulf on the big yearly fishing trip are another matter. It would seem their cars a speed limited not to go less than 120kph, the "Show Off" knob is turned up to 11& they must be trying out for some cricket team & practice by throwing beer cans out the windows.
Jonesfam

[DiscoMick]

I understand what you people said about the skills needed to towing a caravan and a possible test to get a permit. But where you drawn a line?
How many car drivers know to brake or control a car in wet road?
How many times you see people driving erratic during rain because they are not sure about their skills to drive a car in that conditions.
Are we going to introduce an advance driving course with a test to all the drivers?
We cannot.
In my opinion a driver that first ride a motorbike in all conditions make a better driver and would be good to have that experience before drive a car.

Perhaps the solution regarding caravans and large trailers will be for the dealers to offer test by qualified operators by a affordable fee.



Actually yes, I would include an actual driver training requirement in the driving test, as I don't think the log book system does much to train drivers. Its so easily rorted and doesn't actually require people to get driver training, just experience.
We require motorbike riders to do training, so why not car drivers?
I stress my required training would be about basic vehicle operations and safe driving, not about how to go fast. I would also require some basic vehicle maintenance training, such as checking tyre pressures, how to check if the brakes are OK, how to check fluid levels etc. Backing and towing should be included.
A vehicle is a deadly instrument and everyone who wants to operate one should have some training in how to do it safely, I reckon. This shouldn't be a problem for people who have experience and can demonstrate basic competence, but it might expose some of the unskilled and reckless yobbos.
Requiring driver training should also create quite a few jobs around the country, which would be a good opportunity for people who are good drivers and can train others. I know an older bloke who lost his job and became a driving instructor and its worked well for him.
There is already a qualifying process for driving instructors. I would set a syllabus of training which had to be provided, including vehicle maintenance, towing and backing. I would have a standardized report system and would require photographs of students performing key tasks. I'd also have a complaints hotline/email system and would insist that complaints were followed up within 24 hours. This is about raising the basic competency levels of new drivers by instilling good habits, not about turning out racing drivers. Safety would be the key element.
I think it could work well if it was sensibly planned and managed.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Overtaking lanes,here we go.

<snip>

My thoughts.Limit heavy vehicles to 80kmh and over 750kg trailers to 60kmh on these overtaking lanes,also increase the vehicle speed to say 130kmh only in the overtaking lane(after all we ALL have been doing it for years).

<snip>

AndrewWe used to have that and all it did was increase tail-backs, unsafe overtaking procedures and what we now call road rage.

It is far better to have the all the traffic travelling along at about the same speed, on multi-lane roads. (which we should already have with all the road taxes and fuel excise we have paid over the decades).

If you reduce heavy transport to 80KPH you add at least 2 1/2 hours driving time and an extra rest break to the journey from Sydney to Brisbane. For any delays or slow traffic the driver could run into the 14 hour maximum driving time, requiring either a second driver or the delivery to be at least 9 hours late at destination (which takes the delivery out of business hours) and then a forced overnight stop with very unhappy customers and owner-drivers losing money hand over fist. (When the wheels aren't turning the money's burning)

[weeds]

I agree. I am learning to tow our camper trailer and will not tow unsupervised until I'm confident that I can get myself out of an emergency.

It beggars belief the number of people I know of who have only every worked office jobs their whole life, get a huge redundancy package upon retirement, go and buy the biggest caravan they can and then proceed to tow it around in an under powered vehicle with zero towing experience.

When I asked one of these people how their car could manage the weight he said that they'd only be going at 80km/hr and wouldn't be filling the water tanks.

Our son can tow anything but he was trained to tow when he was on his logbooks as he's a tradesman.


Out of interest who is supervising you??

Who supervised/taught your son?? The tradie sitting next to him?? If so what's his qualifications??

[Mick_Marsh]

Out of interest who is supervising you??

Who supervised/taught your son?? The tradie sitting next to him?? If so what's his qualifications??
I had a qualified heavy vehicle instructor sitting beside me when I did a HR course.
I can understand your point.

[weeds]

I don't think that's the point Pedro..

Many go their entire lives towing nothing or just a 6x4 trailer.
Then retire, grab a vehicle, throw 3.5t of van on and off they go.

Whilst there are people with natural ability many don't have this, and a few should *never* be given a ticket to tow.

To be ticketed for anything - high risk work, driving, firearms etc there is a criteria that must be demonstrated (competency based training and assessment).

If people wish to tow a combination of vehicle/trailer that exceeds a certain:
- length
- Tare
- GCM

They should be required to demonstrate that capability. Just like a HA or MC licence requires demonstrated ability to tow, turn, brake and reverse (lost count how many times I've seen caravaners drive on or leave a park that didn't have any drive through parking spaces).

4.5t Light trucks requires a road test, why should 6t of articulated vehicle be any different?

And yes, some people without the right skills should be denied the licence.


All good and well.......ain't gonna happen

I reckon the % of accidents involving non towing car would be much higher than towing.

[Tombie]

Dont forget horse floats,,
or people hiring car trailers,,

and from what I read the limit for "driving a truck on a car licence" is 3T.
so if we take that as our min/max weight,,
that will now also include all you D4 owners that are overweight,,

its a slippery slope,,


For those towing - absolutely - there's a big difference between a static load and a horse thumping around in a float...

Car trailers - most vehicles can't legally tow them loaded.

As for rated weights - 4.5t requires a LT ticket.

(You do realise a stock D2 is only 240kg lighter than a stock D4)...

[Tombie]

All good and well.......ain't gonna happen

I reckon the % of accidents involving non towing car would be much higher than towing.


Same could be said for Cars vs HA or MC...

I'd go as far to suggest many accidents from people towing are avoided by the paranoia of the surrounding motorists being extremely diligent when around them.

[Homestar]

(You do realise a stock D2 is only 240kg lighter than a stock D4)...

What - the weight of a good coffee machine ? ;):wasntme:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I'd go as far to suggest many accidents from people towing are avoided by the paranoia of the surrounding motorists being extremely diligent when around them.

diligent?!?!?
"having or showing care and conscientiousness in one's work or duties

:Thump::Rolling:

[Redback]

Should it be legislated that you have to be have an extra endorsment?
Is that entering the relm of nanny state?

It is, and always has been, operator onus, duty of care, common sense (call it what you will) if you dont know how to tow a caravan then go and find out.

The evidence clearly suggests that this system is not working. People are happy to learn the hard way and put others at risk because they want to be lazy, ignorant or cheap. Training can address a skill gap, but can do very little fix an attitude problem.

Sent from my GT-S7562L using AULRO mobile app

I do agree with all of this, it has to be asked, if you have to upgrade your licence to drive a truck weighing over 4.5t, why shouldn't you have to upgrade your licence to drive a car/caravan combination weighing over 4.5t, also add in the fact it's an articulated vehicle weighing over 4.5t essentially.

Maybe it could be part of the purchase price of the van, training on how to tow a large van.

Baz.

[Redback]

Is there anything more difficult to back than a box trailer LOL... If you can back one of them, you can back **anything** :wasntme:

Actually .... I know of one thing. Have you ever tried backing a jetski trailer down a ramp that doesn't have a jetski on it. They are invisible.... you can't see them until they have jackknifed and punched a hole into your rear quater panel :wasntme:

seeya,
Shane L.

Yes there is two I know of, a Council generator and an Articulated Bus, council generator mainly because you can't see it and an artic bus because they react similar to a box trailer, of coarse once you get the knack of it, it becomes second nature.

Once you show people the basics, 95% of the time, they will work it out.

Baz.

[V8Ian]

Maybe it could be part of the purchase price of the van, training on how to tow a large van.

Baz.
Not everyone buys new.

Some of you folk must have apoplexy when you see push-bikes on the back of caravans. :D

[Aaron IIA]

You are allowed to back a bus? A friend of mine was a bus driver. Where he worked, if you ever engaged reverse gear, it was considered an incident, and required all the associated paperwork.

Aaron

[Aaron IIA]

We used to have that and all it did was increase tail-backs, unsafe overtaking procedures and what we now call road rage.

It is far better to have the all the traffic travelling along at about the same speed, on multi-lane roads. (which we should already have with all the road taxes and fuel excise we have paid over the decades).

If you reduce heavy transport to 80KPH you add at least 2 1/2 hours driving time and an extra rest break to the journey from Sydney to Brisbane. For any delays or slow traffic the driver could run into the 14 hour maximum driving time, requiring either a second driver or the delivery to be at least 9 hours late at destination (which takes the delivery out of business hours) and then a forced overnight stop with very unhappy customers and owner-drivers losing money hand over fist. (When the wheels aren't turning the money's burning)

I think his idea was for heavy vehicles to go slower in overtaking lanes, not the whole highway. I do this anyway.

Aaron

[Redback]

Not everyone buys new.

Some of you folk must have apoplexy when you see push-bikes on the back of caravans. :D


Why??

[DiscoMick]

We used to have that and all it did was increase tail-backs, unsafe overtaking procedures and what we now call road rage.

It is far better to have the all the traffic travelling along at about the same speed, on multi-lane roads. (which we should already have with all the road taxes and fuel excise we have paid over the decades).

If you reduce heavy transport to 80KPH you add at least 2 1/2 hours driving time and an extra rest break to the journey from Sydney to Brisbane. For any delays or slow traffic the driver could run into the 14 hour maximum driving time, requiring either a second driver or the delivery to be at least 9 hours late at destination (which takes the delivery out of business hours) and then a forced overnight stop with very unhappy customers and owner-drivers losing money hand over fist. (When the wheels aren't turning the money's burning)



I agree with this. Forcing vehicles to travel at different speeds just increases the number of drivers who want to overtake, which results in more collisions.
Good driving on good roads is the key. Vehicles of different sizes can mix fine as long as the drivers are suitably skilled and the roads are up to the traffic density. For example, crash rates on the Pacific Highway have plummeted as long sections have been rebuilt as dual-lane divided highway.
On backing, the short drawer bar of a box trailer actually makes it harder to back then something longer, in my experience, because the box trailer turns so much faster. The trick with backing seems to be to get the trailer visible in the side mirror and then adjust the steering wheel to keep it visible. Do you agree?

[Saitch]

Some of you folk must have apoplexy when you see push-bikes on the back of caravans. :D
Especially if the cyclist is still on it!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...<snip>
... On backing, the short drawer bar of a box trailer actually makes it harder to back then something longer, in my experience, because the box trailer turns so much faster. The trick with backing seems to be to get the trailer visible in the side mirror and then adjust the steering wheel to keep it visible. Do you agree?Unfortunately on the D4 the mirrors are convex on both sides and the vehicle is wide so backing a small box trailer is a problem. Luckily I don't have that problem, my main trailer is a tandem float about 12x5.5 and my main box a Haulmark PT1 1.2 which has a very long drawbar.

Where I find backing frustrating is when I regularly have to back my little float and The Booger's full sized car float about 50m along a narrow corridor in a dark shed and that's where the convex mirrors on the D4 are really annoying. Would love to replace both sides with flat mirrors.

[Mick_Marsh]

Some of you folk must have apoplexy when you see push-bikes on the back of caravans. :D
Especially if the cyclist is still on it!
I must admit, I have never noticed a push-bike on the back of a caravan with the cyclist still on it.
Does this happen often?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

No, most caravanners are not skilled enough to hit them in reverse,,
apparently,,,
:angel::wasntme:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...<snip> ...

Car trailers - most vehicles can't legally tow them loaded.

...<snip>...Most car floats can't legally carry a decent sized car let alone a 4WD.

A manual Falcon is only tow rated at about 1200kg while the auto around 1750kg that's the weight of the float + max about 1000kg. But how many times have you seen a Falcon on a car float behind a Falcon?

[pop058]

Most car floats can't legally carry a decent sized car let alone a 4WD.

A manual Falcon is only tow rated at about 1200kg while the auto around 1750kg that's the weight of the float + max about 1000kg. But how many times have you seen a Falcon on a car float behind a Falcon?

You can get (and have been able too for some time) a 2300kg tow pack on a falcon. IIRC it was only available on 6 cyl autos.

[DoubleChevron]

You can get (and have been able too for some time) a 2300kg tow pack on a falcon. IIRC it was only available on 6 cyl autos.

Territory AWD diesels are 2700kg's from memory ... which is pretty good for a family wagon. This is what my father uses to tow with.

seeya
Shane L.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You can get (and have been able too for some time) a 2300kg tow pack on a falcon. IIRC it was only available on 6 cyl autos.A few comments on that: Of all Falcons, how many have the tow pack?
With a Falcon's curb weight of 1,620 kg-1,740 kg and the lightest car float around 750kg, my comment that a falcon or commodore still can't legally tow its sister remains true, even if the trailer was rated above 2000kg.More than that both Ford and Holden limit the maximum speed to 80kph at maximum trailer weight. Adding to the problem of traffic holdups we are discussing.

[pop058]

A few comments on that: Of all Falcons, how many have the tow pack?
With a Falcon's curb weight of 1,620 kg-1,740 kg and the lightest car float around 750kg, my comment that a falcon or commodore still can't legally tow its sister remains true, even if the trailer was rated above 2000kg.More than that both Ford and Holden limit the maximum speed to 80kph at maximum trailer weight. Adding to the problem of traffic holdups we are discussing.

I am not disagreeing with your concept, just adding a small fact AND I would hazzard a guess and say very few have the big towpack and probably none that would hire a servo trailer to pickup their mate's broken down Commodore. :D

[Homestar]

A few comments on that: Of all Falcons, how many have the tow pack?
With a Falcon's curb weight of 1,620 kg-1,740 kg and the lightest car float around 750kg, my comment that a falcon or commodore still can't legally tow its sister remains true, even if the trailer was rated above 2000kg.More than that both Ford and Holden limit the maximum speed to 80kph at maximum trailer weight. Adding to the problem of traffic holdups we are discussing.

So the time I towed an XB falcon on a car trailer with my mates Datsun Stanza with home made tow bar wasn't legal? :confused: :angel:

[Tombie]

So the time I towed an XB falcon on a car trailer with my mates Datsun Stanza with home made tow bar wasn't legal? :confused: :angel:


Only if you were knocking off a 6 pack, Acka Daka blazing whilst smoking a Winnie Blue 🙃

[Tombie]

Could be even more complex.
99412

Done where animal strikes are high

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Territory AWD diesels are 2700kg's from memory ... which is pretty good for a family wagon. This is what my father uses to tow with.

seeya
Shane L.And the Territory diesels have almost exactly the same engine as the D3 and early D4 which have an ATM of 3500kg.

So the time I towed an XB falcon on a car trailer with my mates Datsun Stanza with home made tow bar wasn't legal? :confused: :angel:Datsun Stanza were a class car, so I'd think you'd be O.K. there! :D

Not suggesting what class, but they were in a class

[Homestar]

It can be in whatever class you like Diana, I said I borrowed it, not owned it... :D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

It can be in whatever class you like Diana, I said I borrowed it, not owned it... :DI read that. What I don't understand is how the driver steered it! :o

[Homestar]

Truth be told, the trailer actually pushed me into a ditch at one stage when I tried to stop at a tee intersection - I went straight across the road and the front wheels ended up off the road, but the mighty Dato would not be beaten and I backed it out and completed the journey with only one change of clean undies required.

[bee utey]

I think that nowadays a trailer hire place would be nuts to let a car trailer out of their yard without making sure every safety rule had been addressed. Here is a page from a trailer hire company in Adelaide that seems to have all the boxes ticked:

Car Carrier Rental Safety - $29 Trailer Hire Adelaide - $29 Adelaide Trailer Hire (http://www.adelaidetrailerhire.com/3200kg-car-trailer-safety.html)

I haven't hired a trailer for aeons as my light weight single axle car trailer is fitted with the right doodads to tow a 1500kg car, which is all I've needed until now.

[Toxic_Avenger]

I know a guy that towed a car float with a Toyota 4Runner on it... behind a Nissan 300zx. :eek:

[Homestar]

I think that nowadays a trailer hire place would be nuts to let a car trailer out of their yard without making sure every safety rule had been addressed. Here is a page from a trailer hire company in Adelaide that seems to have all the boxes ticked:

Car Carrier Rental Safety - $29 Trailer Hire Adelaide - $29 Adelaide Trailer Hire (http://www.adelaidetrailerhire.com/3200kg-car-trailer-safety.html)

I haven't hired a trailer for aeons as my light weight single axle car trailer is fitted with the right doodads to tow a 1500kg car, which is all I've needed until now.

The Hire company I currently work for sold off all its car trailers because the legalities of having them wasn't worth it. It would be very hard to hire out a trailer with ramps and a winch and say you didn't expect someone to put anything over 1,300Kg on it. With the chain of responsibility the way it is now, if someone was hurt or killed in an accident with one, then everyone from the driver to the hire company would end up in court.

[thrumy]

well said landy andy

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I know a guy that towed a car float with a Toyota 4Runner on it... behind a Nissan 300zx. :eek:I know another who towed a P38 behind a Commodore and used the handbrake to secure the P38 to the float. :o

[DoubleChevron]

I think that nowadays a trailer hire place would be nuts to let a car trailer out of their yard without making sure every safety rule had been addressed. Here is a page from a trailer hire company in Adelaide that seems to have all the boxes ticked:

Car Carrier Rental Safety - $29 Trailer Hire Adelaide - $29 Adelaide Trailer Hire (http://www.adelaidetrailerhire.com/3200kg-car-trailer-safety.html)

I haven't hired a trailer for aeons as my light weight single axle car trailer is fitted with the right doodads to tow a 1500kg car, which is all I've needed until now.

I was just thinking WOW THAT'S CHEAP .... for $29 and a trailer like that I'd sell my own car trialer and just hire there's whenever needed...... When you open there webpage .... that nice car trailer is $110 a day :eek:

It would be a similar price to getting a flat tray to move any car for you right ?

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

As crazy as it sounds ... ABout the only tow car that can legally tow a Range rover on a car trailer ............................. Is another old range rover. 1.2ton trailer (no way are they less than this with winch and ramps) and 2.5ton range rover sitting on top == 3.7tons. ie: you need a 4ton tow capacity!

seeya,
Shane L.

[AndyG]

So the time I towed an XB falcon on a car trailer with my mates Datsun Stanza with home made tow bar wasn't legal? :confused: :angel:

Could help explain why the old XF was a bit wobbly with a trailer with a 4WD tractor, with water filled tyres and a slasher , :wasntme:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I was just thinking WOW THAT'S CHEAP .... for $29 and a trailer like that I'd sell my own car trialer and just hire there's whenever needed...... When you open there webpage .... that nice car trailer is $110 a day :eek:

It would be a similar price to getting a flat tray to move any car for you right ?

seeya,
Shane L.A tilt tray move across Sydney costs around $300-$500 or a little less when you have an ongoing business relationship with the towee.

We get our armoured vehicles moved around the Sydney basin (out and return) for a little under $1,000 because we do around 25 vehicle moves a year with the same contractor/s. I would think that $110/day for an electric braked trailer with greater than 2000kg payload is a good price.

[Homestar]

As crazy as it sounds ... ABout the only tow car that can legally tow a Range rover on a car trailer ............................. Is another old range rover. 1.2ton trailer (no way are they less than this with winch and ramps) and 2.5ton range rover sitting on top == 3.7tons. ie: you need a 4ton tow capacity!

seeya,
Shane L.

Our car trailers weighed in at 720Kg (weighbridge ticket) with ramps and winch, but these trailers aren't built like you or me would build one - they are built of the very thinnest materials that work, with maximum spacing between supports. As an example the draw bar is 75 x 40 x 2mm - that's about half the size of what I built for my 1,300KG caravan. Look under a servo style car trailer - there isn't much holding them together.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

As crazy as it sounds ... ABout the only tow car that can legally tow a Range rover on a car trailer ............................. Is another old range rover. 1.2ton trailer (no way are they less than this with winch and ramps) and 2.5ton range rover sitting on top == 3.7tons. ie: you need a 4ton tow capacity!

seeya,
Shane L.Hi Shane

4 tonne is exactly what a non-ABS Range Rover classic with ARB rear step bar has as towing capacity.

The ABS RR classics are the same as the Disco 3 and 4 at 3.5 Tonne. So if you want a tow car then the old RRc is your beast. :cool:

(Its why I sold the 92 RRc and kept my older 85 RRc.)

Diana

[DoubleChevron]

Our car trailers weighed in at 720Kg (weighbridge ticket) with ramps and winch, but these trailers aren't built like you or me would build one - they are built of the very thinnest materials that work, with maximum spacing between supports. As an example the draw bar is 75 x 40 x 2mm - that's about half the size of what I built for my 1,300KG caravan. Look under a servo style car trailer - there isn't much holding them together.

The local trailers I've hired in the past are massively heavy things. Think full checker plate floor, guards and side. long heavy checker plate ramps. I asked and they admited they were "about" 1.2tons with ramps and spares.

Given over-ride brakes, that gives you a "legal" carrying capacity of just 800kgs...... So yes I could put a Citroen 2cv on it .......... and that's about it :rolfmao:

seeya,
Shane L.

[pop058]

As crazy as it sounds ... ABout the only tow car that can legally tow a Range rover on a car trailer ............................. Is another old range rover. 1.2ton trailer (no way are they less than this with winch and ramps) and 2.5ton range rover sitting on top == 3.7tons. ie: you need a 4ton tow capacity!

seeya,
Shane L.

Let us not forget that the MAX you can put on a 50mm ball is 3500kg, irrelevant of the tow bar/vehicle in front of it.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Let us not forget that the MAX you can put on a 50mm ball is 3500kg, irrelevant of the tow bar/vehicle in front of it.You can however get 70mm balls and couplings rated at 4500kg and 3" balls rated at 6000 kg.

[DoubleChevron]

Hi Shane

4 tonne is exactly what a non-ABS Range Rover classic with ARB rear step bar has as towing capacity.

The ABS RR classics are the same as the Disco 3 and 4 at 3.5 Tonne. So if you want a tow car then the old RRc is your beast. :cool:

(Its why I sold the 92 RRc and kept my older 85 RRc.)

Diana

interesting. I have a '92 ('91 build) here I think it's towbar states 4ton ... either way, it's not going to happen. If I ever tow anything heavy on a car trailer, it'll only very extremely carefully ... and not long distance at speed.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Homestar]

interesting. I have a '92 ('91 build) here I think it's towbar states 4ton ... either way, it's not going to happen. If I ever tow anything heavy on a car trailer, it'll only very extremely carefully ... and not long distance at speed.

seeya,
Shane L.

Short of getting a truck, you won't find a better tow vehicle than an RRC IMO. I have towed around 3500kg (estimated - a genset known to weigh right on 2000kg on a tri axle trailer) and it did it with ease - over 350km, but it swallowed nearly 2 tanks of fuel doing it. :eek: Also, they naturally slow down with over 3 tonne behind them making them much safer... :D

All that with an LT77 gearbox and 10 spline axles! Although the box is now gone to God and the axles looked like pretzels when I pulled them... :D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

interesting. I have a '92 ('91 build) here I think it's towbar states 4ton ... either way, it's not going to happen. If I ever tow anything heavy on a car trailer, it'll only very extremely carefully ... and not long distance at speed.

seeya,
Shane L.ABS brakes were available in the 1990 model, but not fitted to all cars. You'll find that the later bars show the reduced capacity of 3.5Tonne

[DiscoMick]

I know they are rated to tow 3.5 tonnes, but I would just feel very nervous with that much weight behind me, no matter what vehicle I was towing it with.

[V8Ian]

I know they are rated to tow 3.5 tonnes, but I would just feel very nervous with that much weight behind me, no matter what vehicle I was towing it with.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/430.jpg
:wasntme:

[DiscoMick]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/430.jpg
:wasntme:

I take my hat off to anyone who can drive road trains safely. You're a better driver than me, for sure. I'd have nightmares.

[DoubleChevron]

I take my hat off to anyone who can drive road trains safely. You're a better driver than me, for sure. I'd have nightmares.

They would just play follow the leader wouldn't they :wasntme: :)

I reckon caravans and trailers are inherently unsafe compared to trucks/5th wheelers.

[V8Ian]

I take my hat off to anyone who can drive road trains safely. You're a better driver than me, for sure. I'd have nightmares.
Not really Mick, it comes down to what one learns. No one is born a roadtrain driver. A good car driver is a better driver than a bad truck driver. Like all occupations, most take pride in their work.

[V8Ian]

They would just play follow the leader wouldn't they :wasntme: :)

I reckon caravans and trailers are inherently unsafe compared to trucks/5th wheelers.
I wish, have you ever followed one? :o
Driving a 'train takes a lot more foresight and planning than driving a smaller vehicle. There is a technique to passing oncomming road trains, particularly on narrow roads.

[DoubleChevron]

Yep, the last trailer is still playing follow the leader ....................... just in a round-a-bout way :)

Overtaking them? I thought the trick was to just let htem have the entire sealed road while you went down the sides, if they have to get of the road, the fourth trailer will be all over the place .... but still playing follow the leader :wasntme:

Nah, I haven't driven with them. I remember when we went around australia when I was a kid. Dad soon worked out you just slowed right down and got off the road and let them pass. Way easier than making them share the road with you.

[Tombie]

Ian would be laughing at this :)
A small flick from the steer tyres certainty has an amplified effect by the time the tail wags!

[DiscoMick]

Following a road train is like watching a snake wriggle.
I've passed a few on the Stuart Highway, but you need a LOOONNG straight stretch of sealed road and to be certain nothing is coming the other way. I wouldn't attempt it on an unsealed road - too much dust.

[LandyAndy]

I watched and listened to 2 truckies boil their blood on the way back from the city today.
Dont blame them,a **** in a winebago flat towing a zuki could only manage 80 to 90kmh,but come the overtaking lanes all of a sudden he could do 100.There were 3 failed passings of the first road train that prevented any other vehicles passing.On the 4th overtaking lane,the first roadtrain went for it,the second allowed the backed up cars to follow,I was next in line.As soon as he cleared the winnebago he swerved in missing him by a foot,the van driver ****:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
I congradulated the truckie on a well sort out manouver and urged them now to form a sandwich.Radio silence was maintained,I think he may have taken it as a crack,certainly wasnt meant that way.
Andrew

[PAT303]

I take my hat off to anyone who can drive road trains safely. You're a better driver than me, for sure. I'd have nightmares.

As an Ambo in the Pilbara we attended a job where a driver had a heart attack,the RT was still on the road so as I was the only one with a HR license I got the job to drive it to a safe spot,the safe spot ended up being Newman 90km's away :D.It was a Volvo and had torque like nothing I've ever experienced,all of it under 1500rpm and I could ''feel'' it through the seat,it tracked very straight also,considering it was about 50mtrs long all up. Pat

[PAT303]

Yep, the last trailer is still playing follow the leader ....................... just in a round-a-bout way :)

Overtaking them? I thought the trick was to just let htem have the entire sealed road while you went down the sides, if they have to get of the road, the fourth trailer will be all over the place .... but still playing follow the leader :wasntme:

Nah, I haven't driven with them. I remember when we went around australia when I was a kid. Dad soon worked out you just slowed right down and got off the road and let them pass. Way easier than making them share the road with you.

I got booked doing 20 over the limit in a 100 zone overtaking one up north,it's obviously safer doing 105 on the wrong side of the road for 3mins instead of 20 for 30 sec. Pat

[Tombie]

I got booked doing 20 over the limit in a 100 zone overtaking one up north,it's obviously safer doing 105 on the wrong side of the road for 3mins instead of 20 for 30 sec. Pat


Much more fun doing 160 for 8 :)

[V8Ian]

As an Ambo in the Pilbara we attended a job where a driver had a heart attack,the RT was still on the road so as I was the only one with a HR license I got the job to drive it to a safe spot,the safe spot ended up being Newman 90km's away :D.It was a Volvo and had torque like nothing I've ever experienced,all of it under 1500rpm and I could ''feel'' it through the seat,it tracked very straight also,considering it was about 50mtrs long all up. Pat
You must be easily impressed Pat. ;) A Cummins or Cat would blow you away, they do the Euros. :twisted:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Following a road train is like watching a snake wriggle.
I've passed a few on the Stuart Highway, but you need a LOOONNG straight stretch of sealed road and to be certain nothing is coming the other way. I wouldn't attempt it on an unsealed road - too much dust.I remember following road trains up the Stuart before it was sealed and the old Ghan was still in operation.

You were travelling along vibrating from the truck corrugations like nothing you've ever felt before and then found yourself in a dust cloud so you knew there was an RT ahead.

The RT stayed in the centre of the road while the 3rd trailer wandered from one side to the other. The only way you could see what was coming from the other direction was to pull out into almost the gutter on the other side and hope there wasn't something coming the other way. It was probably safer to overtake on the near side, but illegal.

[Melbourne Park]

There's a lot of intolerance and ignorance here about van drivers, and people wanting to extend the Nanny State.

The reality is there are all sorts of bad drivers - from aggressive crazy stoned teenagers to 93 year olds that have slow reactions with multiple physical restrictions.

People need to adapt to what's going on, be patient, and respect the old drivers. They are people too, not just obstructions on someone's rushed journey.

As far as queues of caravans - I think they do that to save fuel. Its also why they go slowly. The difference between 85 KMH and 100 KMH in drag, is 38.4%. Between 85 KMH and 110 KMH, its over 67% greater drag. Hence going slow saves a lot of money. As does sitting close to a van in front.

Concerning reversing a van - I think some people just cannot do it. Hence training may not significantly improve things. If a driver is not confident reverse parking, then it makes sense for them not to reverse park.

[Eevo]

They are people too, not just obstructions on someone's rushed journey.



doing the speed limit is not rushing.

[Homestar]

Concerning reversing a van - I think some people just cannot do it. Hence training may not significantly improve things. If a driver is not confident reverse parking, then it makes sense for them not to reverse park.

Sorry, but I disagree (which is fine:)). If you can't back your van, then you shouldn't be towing it. Practice is what is required and if they can't do it, then don't get one. Not just from a practical point of view, but for a safety one as well. There are times when you may need - and have - to back your van. It's not even that hard. Get a 6x4 and practice with that. Once you can back that, you can back your caravan, simples.

[pop058]

Sorry, but I disagree (which is fine:)). If you can't back your van, then you shouldn't be towing it. Practice is what is required and if they can't do it, then don't get one. Not just from a practical point of view, but for a safety one as well. There are times when you may need - and have - to back your van. It's not even that hard. Get a 6x4 and practice with that. Once you can back that, you can back your caravan, simples.

:thumbsup: Towing Rule Number 1 :)

[DiscoMick]

I saw a video for driving semi trailers which demonstrated how to back a semi-trailer by inititlly lining up part of the trailer in the rear view mirror and then keeping that part in the same spot in the mirror by making small movements of the steering wheel. I get the impression some people get it wrong by not starting well and then making movements which are too bg.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[winaje]

I saw a video for driving semi trailers which demonstrated how to back a semi-trailer by inititlly lining up part of the trailer in the rear view mirror and then keeping that part in the same spot in the mirror by making small movements of the steering wheel. I get the impression some people get it wrong by not starting well and then making movements which are too bg.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app
When I was TAUGHT to drive a semi in the early 90's at DECA in Shepparton, the old geyser who was the instructor told me to continually wiggle the prime mover from left to right while reversing so that I could see what was happening. I really irritated him on the reversing section of the test by doing the exact opposite and completing the reversing in one go.

I personally think that a lot of people who cannot reverse don't understand how it works, the geometry involved.

[Redback]

There's a lot of intolerance and ignorance here about van drivers, and people wanting to extend the Nanny State.

The reality is there are all sorts of bad drivers - from aggressive crazy stoned teenagers to 93 year olds that have slow reactions with multiple physical restrictions.

People need to adapt to what's going on, be patient, and respect the old drivers. They are people too, not just obstructions on someone's rushed journey.

As far as queues of caravans - I think they do that to save fuel. Its also why they go slowly. The difference between 85 KMH and 100 KMH in drag, is 38.4%. Between 85 KMH and 110 KMH, its over 67% greater drag. Hence going slow saves a lot of money. As does sitting close to a van in front.

Concerning reversing a van - I think some people just cannot do it. Hence training may not significantly improve things. If a driver is not confident reverse parking, then it makes sense for them not to reverse park.

First of all, I don't care how fast they go, but what I do care about is if they are holding other vehicles up, they should move over when it is safe to do so and let the vehicles behind by, not get to double lanes and put their foot down or just sit there, there are people out there working for a living on the roads and some that have time contraints.

Second is it is illegal to sit close to the vehicle in front, keeping a safe distance apart is to allow for a good breaking distance by the following vehicle to be able to stop in an emergancey and also to enable other vehicles to be able to pass a single vehicle at a time, so they don't have to try and pass 3 or 4 vehicles at one time.

If a truck driver has to show he can reverse to get his artic licence, then so should a car towing a van, especially if the car and van is over 7 metres, even getting your car licence requires you to prove you can reverse park.

And my last point, if you want people to be patiant and give respect to these older drivers, then they need to be courteous towards other road users when they can.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

That courteous stuff works both ways,,;)

I dont give a rats arse how time contrained you are,, and its not my problem you dont have a clue how long it actually takes to drive from a to be on a high/byway,,

as for leaving gaps,, Puuuulease!
do you know how long that 5m gap is at 90kph?
.2 of a second.

Thats the time gap.

so you tell me you've seen many many vans traveling at a gap of .2 of a second?
:eek:
no skill shortage involved there!!

[winaje]

... even getting your car licence requires you to prove you can reverse park...
Interestingly, and sadly, this is no longer the case in Victoira, as the Vicroads tester can decide to EITHER ask you to reverse park OR do a 3 point turn.

Not trying to be pedantic, just showing the further institutional degradation of the new drivers skill requirements.

Source is my son who got his license a week ago.

[Redback]

Well that explains a lot, some of the latest trips down to Vic I've seen some P Plate drivers struggling to park, and when I mean struggle, I mean absolutely no idea what they are doing:(

[Eevo]

i think the reason is parking isnt considered dangerous or risky, so the driver can learn to do it in their own time.

[Redback]

i think the reason is parking isnt considered dangerous or risky, so the driver can learn to do it in their own time.

Assuming they want to learn, sometimes the best someone is ever going to drive, is when they go for their licence, and never improve afterwards.

Reversing teaches you how to judge distance, and use your mirrors.

[Redback]

That courteous stuff works both ways,,;)

I dont give a rats arse how time contrained you are,, and its not my problem you dont have a clue how long it actually takes to drive from a to be on a high/byway,,

as for leaving gaps,, Puuuulease!
do you know how long that 5m gap is at 90kph?
.2 of a second.

Thats the time gap.

so you tell me you've seen many many vans traveling at a gap of .2 of a second?
:eek:
no skill shortage involved there!!

If that gap isn't big enough to fit (using my D4 and camper as an excample) assuming the vehicles I'm following are the same or longer than me, then yes too small, I didn't mention anything about a timed gap, but if you want a timed gap(I thought it was 2 seconds) which is for a single car only, not something weighing 5 or 6 tonne;)

Using a simple process, pick an object on the side of the road, once the vehicle reaches that object, you count 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, you increase that depending on what you are driving and your speed and most of the time this way of judging distance works.

Yes courtesy is a two way street, when I'm following another vehicle, I always leave a gap bigger than my length, I also don't try to stop others from getting past either, which seems to be very popular these days, regardless of the vehicle.

That is not being courteous Pete(in bold) is it now:cool:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Second is it is illegal to sit close to the vehicle in front, keeping a safe distance apart is to allow for a good breaking distance by the following vehicle to be able to stop in an emergancey and also to enable other vehicles to be able to pass a single vehicle at a time, so they don't have to try and pass 3 or 4 vehicles at one time.


I'm sorry,, I thought you were saying that all caravans DONT adhere to the well known 2 second rule( no, not that 2 second rule Gav:p)?

so, how much room/gap do you need Baz?
D4 plus camper,, around 9 metres? say ten.

so if the naughty caravanners are more than .4 of a second behind one another there should be plenty of room for a man of your non-caravan towing skill to over take. ;):D

[Eevo]

Assuming they want to learn, sometimes the best someone is ever going to drive, is when they go for their licence, and never improve afterwards.

Reversing teaches you how to judge distance, and use your mirrors.

i totally agree.
having said that, ive done 1 reverse parallel park in the last 12 months.

[Redback]

I'm sorry,, I thought you were saying that all caravans DONT adhere to the well known 2 second rule( no, not that 2 second rule Gav:p)?

so, how much room/gap do you need Baz?
D4 plus camper,, around 9 metres? say ten.

so if the naughty caravanners are more than .4 of a second behind one another there should be plenty of room for a man of your non-caravan towing skill to over take. ;):D

Don't forget my all up weight isn't that much less than you:p

I'll double my length as a gap, sometimes longer if I'm going to overtake, D4s need a run up too ya know:D


i totally agree.
having said that, ive done 1 reverse parallel park in the last 12 months.

Yeah but how many people are there in Adelaide, 50, 60 tops on a bad day:p

[Eevo]

Don't forget my all up weight isn't that much less than you:p

I'll double my length as a gap, sometimes longer if I'm going to overtake, D4s need a run up too ya know:D



Yeah but how many people are there in Adelaide, 50, 60 tops on a bad day:p

only when the caravan mob are in town :p

[Melbourne Park]

Sorry, but I disagree (which is fine:)). If you can't back your van, then you shouldn't be towing it. Practice is what is required and if they can't do it, then don't get one. Not just from a practical point of view, but for a safety one as well. There are times when you may need - and have - to back your van. It's not even that hard. Get a 6x4 and practice with that. Once you can back that, you can back your caravan, simples.

We'll disagree then.

And I can park my long van very easily ... but then, I towed an Olympic class 470 dinghy with a Datsun 1200 (ex rally car) in the 1970s, and I really had no effective braking. Do that at 18 and it gets built in.

But ... you are talking about safety!!!! Reverse parking should be illegal without a person out of the car as a safety checker IMO. Because the safety aspect of running over someone, is far more critical than the easy mechanicals of what is essentially like pushing a wheel barrow with the back of your vehicle.

But put in someone who gets stressed while reversing, and is focused on the mechanics, and thats when you have accidents.

One of the key issues too IMO, is being confident enough to "pull out". I can reverse a 46 footer into a tight marina in a 40 knot cross wind, which requires quite a lot of speed otherwise the keel looses grip with the water, and then the wind blows the boat onto the pylons of the marina. The key is if you're not 100% certain of slotting it in the middle, then pull out early.

Put amateurs reversing caravans in tight situations, and not matter how good they might be in a test and when relaxed, its totally different if people are under stress.

So, for people who are not confident, then I think they should avoid reverse parking. Its safer to do so IMO.

As far as my son goes ... I suspect he is not a good parker ... and I have taught him about how the car revolves around the rear inside wheel when reversing. And he's a good yachtsman too, and quite mechanical.

His generation don't regard parking as being important IMO. You buy your VW, and they come with auto parking anyway ... all cars will soon. it's getting tough to even buy a manual these days ... just look at our Discos.

Doug

[Melbourne Park]

First of all, I don't care how fast they go, but what I do care about is if they are holding other vehicles up, they should move over when it is safe to do so and let the vehicles behind by, not get to double lanes and put their foot down or just sit there, there are people out there working for a living on the roads and some that have time contraints.

Couldn't agree more.

Second is it is illegal to sit close to the vehicle in front, keeping a safe distance apart is to allow for a good breaking distance by the following vehicle to be able to stop in an emergancey and also to enable other vehicles to be able to pass a single vehicle at a time, so they don't have to try and pass 3 or 4 vehicles at one time.

I know I know I know ...

but if you look at city driving, if you drove safely, you'd loose 20 car places just getting to work, and in Melbourne, that would mean several sets of extra red lights, and another 10 minutes or so ...

...

And my last point, if you want people to be patiant and give respect to these older drivers, then they need to be courteous towards other road users when they can.

I agree too.

My main issue is though, that we should just respect even the idiots out there. We should treat them like we treat a really bad and slow off road track. We have to be careful, we have to think about things, we're going to loose time, but its still good to be alive. Lets not get stressed by people who are not competent.

What I don't like about caravans, is the ones who tear along, with the van swaying behind them ... and there are lots of those that IMO should not be on the road. I'd much rather those drove at 70 KMH.

And while we have speed limits, they are maximum speeds. On most roads, there are not minimum speeds. While it sucks to have a near blind old person puddling along the left lane ... I try to respect them. Some of them were war heros, injured by their service. We don't know who they are ... IMO it's up to us good drivers, to treat those bad drivers as real people like a great Uncle whose was a great bloke, but who just can no longer drive as well these days ... and to enjoy our journey and stay relaxed about those inverse versions of Mark Webber or Danial Ricciardo.

Doug

[Tombie]

Tolerance - the insistence that we lower our expectations to those of the lowest common denominator...

Unsafe is unsafe -
wobbling van = unsafe.
Incompetent driver = unsafe.
Impeding the flow of traffic = unsafe.
Unable to competently manoeuvre a vehicle combo in reverse = unsafe.

Respect is earned.

A licence is a certificate of competence - meeting minimum understanding of rules and vehicle control... It's not a right...

If someone is no longer competent (or never were) they should not be issued with a licence.

I have to retest for several of my qualifications regularly.

If everyone for example (where capable - and I mean the equipment is capable) sat on 100+ then there would never be a line of trucks stuck behind a bickie dipper doing 85....

Our roads are filled with examples of total incompetence- it's purely luck that sees many survive...

[SBD4]

No issue with those that travel slower than the general flow of traffic, towing or not, as long as they make every effort to allow others to overtake them in a safe and timely manner. It is simply a general consideration for your fellow road user.

[Redback]

My main issue is though, that we should just respect even the idiots out there. We should treat them like we treat a really bad and slow off road track. We have to be careful, we have to think about things, we're going to loose time, but its still good to be alive. Lets not get stressed by people who are not competent.

What I don't like about caravans, is the ones who tear along, with the van swaying behind them ... and there are lots of those that IMO should not be on the road. I'd much rather those drove at 70 KMH.

And while we have speed limits, they are maximum speeds. On most roads, there are not minimum speeds. While it sucks to have a near blind old person puddling along the left lane ... I try to respect them. Some of them were war heros, injured by their service. We don't know who they are ... IMO it's up to us good drivers, to treat those bad drivers as real people like a great Uncle whose was a great bloke, but who just can no longer drive as well these days ... and to enjoy our journey and stay relaxed about those inverse versions of Mark Webber or Danial Ricciardo.

Doug

I agree with most of what you say, BUT, Melbourne traffic, come to Sydney brother, you got no idea until you have driven(sorry parked) in Sydney traffic:p

[Toxic_Avenger]

I'm not comfortable with the thought of grey nomads slip-streaming at 100 or even 90. I wouldn't do that in a normal car
In a recent driver training course thru work, we used the brakes in anger on a back road, doing a hard stop from 80km/h. <2yr old vehicle, tyres with <1000km on them, an ANTICIPATED stop. Anyone who hasn't done this before should give it a go- It'll open your eyes.

From 80km/h, with ABS going nutso, it took 35m stop.
Add 3 tonne to that equation, with a stop that also factors in a reaction time (eyes>brain>sphincter clenching>foot>pedal) ... and higher speeds, and things can go gnarly real quick.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

The funny thing was within days of starting this thread I had my next road trip north. On a long section of an uphill gradient accompanied by unbroken double centrelines.... You guessed it a rather long caravan materialised in front of me, out of no where.

Maybe there is a Karma God of Caravaners and they were dishing out their revenge upon someone whom had the sheer audacity to criticise their followers?

Or maybe it is just one of those cosmic rules - have a set of double centre lines and there will be one or two or ... more caravans ahead of you :angel:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Saitch]

....or when you're behind a van, there hasn't been any oncoming for ages, you know there's a straight stretch over the next hill, you pull out to have a squiz & Lo & Behold! There's a single vehicle coming the other way https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/288.jpg

[Tombie]

....or when you're behind a van, there hasn't been any oncoming for ages, you know there's a straight stretch over the next hill, you pull out to have a squiz & Lo & Behold! There's a single vehicle coming the other way https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/288.jpg


Without fail.... It's like they schedule it on some secret communication channel... :)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

paranoia now:rolleyes:

yes yes Tombie,, in the last Wanderer mag your pic hit the most wanted list,,,

[FishSlap]

[p38arover]

No issue with those that travel slower than the general flow of traffic, towing or not, as long as they make every effort to allow others to overtake them in a safe and timely manner. It is simply a general consideration for your fellow road user.

Agreed. For example, I have no problem with slower learner drivers but I do find it annoying that many drivers who are teaching their kids to drive don't seem to impress the above upon them.

[goingbush]

I'm not comfortable with the thought of grey nomads slip-streaming at 100 or even 90. I wouldn't do that in a normal car
In a recent driver training course thru work, we used the brakes in anger on a back road, doing a hard stop from 80km/h. <2yr old vehicle, tyres with <1000km on them, an ANTICIPATED stop. Anyone who hasn't done this before should give it a go- It'll open your eyes.

From 80km/h, with ABS going nutso, it took 35m stop.
Add 3 tonne to that equation, with a stop that also factors in a reaction time (eyes>brain>sphincter clenching>foot>pedal) ... and higher speeds, and things can go gnarly real quick.


Try about 180m for a full panic brake crash brake test, towing caravan at 100kmh , hit cow at 87kmh then another 70m to stop . you can hear one caravan wheel lock, then another - but the brakes on truck did nothing, not even invoke ABS .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsMlKeeG7Lc

Iveco should be taken to the cleaners for the brake peformances on this truck , not just mine - all this model are the same .
(this is one of my soap box agendas , fyi see more here Iveco 4x4 Brake Problems (http://goingbush.com/iveco5.html))

[DiscoMick]

I survived driving in Bangkok's madness for three years - I know all about emergency stops.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[Melbourne Park]

I expect less and less of today's drivers, and so I expect them to be bad. So I don't expect good standards.

As far as Sydney goes, IMO they are much better drivers than in Melbourne, due to Melbourne drivers insane insecurity. If you indicate in Melbourne with the intention to change lane, the car behind where you intend to move, takes it as an insult. They accelerate, and get belligerent.

Many people are nuts on the road, lots of times.

I was amazed in South Australia, how people ignored double lines for overtaking!

They say too that many long distance truck drivers take stimulants, which can effect capability. But I always give especial respect to pro drivers ... its their job afterall ...

I expect less and less on the roads these days. But also, its fun to be on the open road, as its much more pleasant there than in Sydney or Melbourne. So when the nutty drives come along, I just treat them as being a peanut issue compared to city traffic.

[Mick_Marsh]

I expect less and less of today's drivers, and so I expect them to be bad. So I don't expect good standards.

As far as Sydney goes, IMO they are much better drivers than in Melbourne, due to Melbourne drivers insane insecurity. If you indicate in Melbourne with the intention to change lane, the car behind where you intend to move, takes it as an insult. They accelerate, and get belligerent.

Many people are nuts on the road, lots of times.

I was amazed in South Australia, how people ignored double lines for overtaking!

They say too that many long distance truck drivers take stimulants, which can effect capability. But I always give especial respect to pro drivers ... its their job afterall ...

I expect less and less on the roads these days. But also, its fun to be on the open road, as its much more pleasant there than in Sydney or Melbourne. So when the nutty drives come along, I just treat them as being a peanut issue compared to city traffic.
I agree with these two comments.
Knowing how aggressive Victorian drivers are (where two lanes merge into one is always a battle), I had a deep foreboding when I had to tow a tandem is Sydney's suburbia a couple of years ago. I mean, Melbourne drivers are just plain nasty (generally speaking) so Sydney drivers must be worse, right?
Wrong.
Towing the tandem on suburban roads with little idea of where I was in Sydney was a breeze. If I was in the left hand lane and suddenly realised I had to turn right, I put on the indicator and the other drivers on the road would make a space available for me to merge across the road. Sydney drivers generally are very polite drivers. I love driving around in Sydney.

[BMKal]

We've just booked our two or three yearly venture into Melbourne traffic, with another trip across to Tassie on the boat in January.

On past trips, we have entered Melbourne either from Ballarat on the Western Freeway, or from South Coast / Geelong on the Princes Freeway, and then onto Westgate from either of these, so pretty straight forward.

This time however, we might be coming in from Bendigo, and I have just noticed that the direct route is via Calder Freeway, and then onto Tullamarine Freeway and Citylink, both of which Google Maps shows as Toll Roads.

What's the go with interstate travellers using the toll roads over there. Do you have to pay something up front, or do they record your vehicle registration number and send you a bill. Or do you just ignore them and don't pay anything ................. :twisted:

There are (so far) no Toll Roads in the West, so it's not something that I'm used to (although I did hear a rumour that there's a Grader Driver somewhere south of Perth who has been threatening to establish a roadblock and charge travellers a fee to pass). Last time I drove on Toll Roads was in Queensland a couple of years ago - but that was in a hire car that I collected at the airport which apparently was fitted with some sort of electronic tag. The bill for the hire car was paid for by my employer, so I never did get to see what toll fees I was charged.

[alien]

We've just booked our two or three yearly venture into Melbourne traffic, with another trip across to Tassie on the boat in January.

On past trips, we have entered Melbourne either from Ballarat on the Western Freeway, or from South Coast / Geelong on the Princes Freeway, and then onto Westgate from either of these, so pretty straight forward.

This time however, we might be coming in from Bendigo, and I have just noticed that the direct route is via Calder Freeway, and then onto Tullamarine Freeway and Citylink, both of which Google Maps shows as Toll Roads.

What's the go with interstate travellers using the toll roads over there. Do you have to pay something up front, or do they record your vehicle registration number and send you a bill. Or do you just ignore them and don't pay anything ................. :twisted:

There are (so far) no Toll Roads in the West, so it's not something that I'm used to (although I did hear a rumour that there's a Grader Driver somewhere south of Perth who has been threatening to establish a roadblock and charge travellers a fee to pass). Last time I drove on Toll Roads was in Queensland a couple of years ago - but that was in a hire car that I collected at the airport which apparently was fitted with some sort of electronic tag. The bill for the hire car was paid for by my employer, so I never did get to see what toll fees I was charged.
If your down around Boxing day there is a trip on in Wombat you welcome to join in on(Daylesford/Ballan area).
Your welcome to camp in our drive too if it suits.


You can get a pass over the phone but it can be avoided easily.
https://www.citylink.com.au/
On the Calder take the Keilor Park Drive exit, turn right at the top of the ramp(2 turning lanes) and follow it to the ring road.
A right turn down the ramp and then follow it to the Westgate Freeway and over the bridge as a lot of trucks do.

[alien]

I get to have my revenge next week.
After driving heavy vehicles for years complaining about slow inconsiderate drivers I become one.
I'll have the camper on and do as I please :p

[BMKal]

If your down around Boxing day there is a trip on in Wombat you welcome to join in on(Daylesford/Ballan area).
Your welcome to camp in our drive too if it suits.


You can get a pass over the phone but it can be avoided easily.
https://www.citylink.com.au/
On the Calder take the Keilor Park Drive exit, turn right at the top of the ramp(2 turning lanes) and follow it to the ring road.
A right turn down the ramp and then follow it to the Westgate Freeway and over the bridge as a lot of trucks do.

Thanks for that Kyle. Just had a look at what you suggested on Google Maps and it looks easy enough - even I should be able to find my way through there without getting lost. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/207.jpg

Unfortunately won't be over that way until about the middle of January - we're booked on the boat on the 19th. Will probably stay a day or three in or around Adelaide and catch up with some people, and then head across to Bendigo. I've still got a couple of mates up there from my days at the Bendigo School of Mines many years ago. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/208.jpg

It's a pity the timing is not a bit different. Would love to get the opportunity to meet a few over that way and go out on a trip somewhere. Haven't really done anything since Melrose, other than a few trips down to Perth (all work related) and a week up around Geraldton. :D

[Mick_Marsh]

You can pay after. Last time I used it I paid on the Tuesday.

[alien]

Thanks for that Kyle. Just had a look at what you suggested on Google Maps and it looks easy enough - even I should be able to find my way through there without getting lost. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/207.jpg

Unfortunately won't be over that way until about the middle of January - we're booked on the boat on the 19th. Will probably stay a day or three in or around Adelaide and catch up with some people, and then head across to Bendigo. I've still got a couple of mates up there from my days at the Bendigo School of Mines many years ago. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/208.jpg

It's a pity the timing is not a bit different. Would love to get the opportunity to meet a few over that way and go out on a trip somewhere. Haven't really done anything since Melrose, other than a few trips down to Perth (all work related) and a week up around Geraldton. :D
The timing for getting together is nothing more than a little notice.
There is always folk looking to justify an over nighter in the bush :D

[Melbourne Park]

As alien said, If you stick to the Western Ring Road, then you can by pass the toll road. The toll road which is built for getting to the Airport saves you around 10 minutes. The ring road is free. The toll road has blue warnings - avoid or you'll end up paying!! Try to get onto the Western Ring Road, the destination would be either Geelong or the Westgate bridge.

The problem though is the roads leading onto the West Gate bridge are a maze, are confusing, and GPS setups will likely not account for them, because the lanes are quite new. And if you get stuck in a lane by mistake, you can end up being forced to go where you did not intend to go.

But if you come via Bendigo just use the Western Ring road, and try to get to Port Melbourne. The Ring Road will join the Geelong to Melbourne road, and the Ring Road which you will have joined from the Bendigo highway (Calder Highway) will join that Highway coming from the direction of Geelong, and then you'll cross the Yarra river, and you'll get a view of the city in front of you and the Bay on your right. Be in the left lane of the Bridge, and get off the freeway to the left, as soon as you cross the West Gate bridge, if you can. That left lane turn will take you to Port Melbourne, and the Ferry terminal. That route is more simple than if you pay money using the Airport Toll Way IMO.

If you have an app for a phone GPS setup, its worth it as they can be up to date with the roads. For instance, I use Metroview as an App that cost $17 I think ... I bought it quite a few years ago ... and it updates itself for free, and it downloads the maps to the phone's permanent memory, so it does not load maps from the cellular network. it has an annual charge of $7 I think for traffic information (which I have never paid for as I use Metroview as a backup). It has good voice controls. As said I use Metroview often as a backup to my GPS in the car and the Hena maps on another device ... Metro view has often saved me and I think its great value. You can tell it to avoid toll roads.

Doug

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What annoys me about the WestLink and Bolte Bridge is the left turn to the Burnley Tunnel. If you are unfamiliar you expect both lane 1 and 2 will get you onto the Westgate Fwy Eastbound, (particularly if you're sitting in lane 1 with a trailer or caravan in tow) but alas only Lane 2 gets you into the tunnel and Lane 1 dumps you into the CBD. :mad:

[BMKal]

As alien said, If you stick to the Western Ring Road, then you can by pass the toll road. The toll road which is built for getting to the Airport saves you around 10 minutes. The ring road is free. The toll road has blue warnings - avoid or you'll end up paying!! Try to get onto the Western Ring Road, the destination would be either Geelong or the Westgate bridge.

The problem though is the roads leading onto the West Gate bridge are a maze, are confusing, and GPS setups will likely not account for them, because the lanes are quite new. And if you get stuck in a lane by mistake, you can end up being forced to go where you did not intend to go.

But if you come via Bendigo just use the Western Ring road, and try to get to Port Melbourne. The Ring Road will join the Geelong to Melbourne road, and the Ring Road which you will have joined from the Bendigo highway (Calder Highway) will join that Highway coming from the direction of Geelong, and then you'll cross the Yarra river, and you'll get a view of the city in front of you and the Bay on your right. Be in the left lane of the Bridge, and get off the freeway to the left, as soon as you cross the West Gate bridge, if you can. That left lane turn will take you to Port Melbourne, and the Ferry terminal. That route is more simple than if you pay money using the Airport Toll Way IMO.

If you have an app for a phone GPS setup, its worth it as they can be up to date with the roads. For instance, I use Metroview as an App that cost $17 I think ... I bought it quite a few years ago ... and it updates itself for free, and it downloads the maps to the phone's permanent memory, so it does not load maps from the cellular network. it has an annual charge of $7 I think for traffic information (which I have never paid for as I use Metroview as a backup). It has good voice controls. As said I use Metroview often as a backup to my GPS in the car and the Hena maps on another device ... Metro view has often saved me and I think its great value. You can tell it to avoid toll roads.

Doug

Once I get onto the Westgate bridge it's pretty easy - have been there a number of times before, but coming in either from Geelong or Ballarat.

So far (touch wood) I've never had any problems in getting onto the right ramp etc to get onto the bridge. I'm running a Hema Navigator in the D4 and it seems to be reasonably up-to-date (though it's almost 3 years now since the last time I was across that way). I had more trouble getting onto the new northern extension of South Road in Adelaide, and I grew up in Adelaide and thought I knew the roads there pretty well. :p

[Aaron IIA]

I had more trouble getting onto the new northern extension of South Road in Adelaide, and I grew up in Adelaide and thought I knew the roads there pretty well. :p

South Road Extension? That had to open at least 17 or more years ago.

Aaron

[Mick_Marsh]

South Road Extension? That had to open at least 17 or more years ago.

Aaron
Not the expressway. The elevated one heading north.

[AndyG]

I hope these directions being handed out include at least one Rh hook turn in front of a tram :twisted:

[Homestar]

I hope these directions being handed out include at least one Rh hook turn in front of a tram :twisted:

I can arrange that... ;)

[BMKal]

I hope these directions being handed out include at least one Rh hook turn in front of a tram :twisted:

That's OK - I've done them before - many years ago. And I remember being pulled over by an irate policeman outside some large railway station for getting it all wrong once too. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/14.jpg

Not sure if it's still the same, but there was one spot in Adelaide where you could also do these - coming out from the railway station / casino and turning right from North Terrace into King William. Apparently there's trams there now (never there when I was living in Adelaide). :cool:

[Redback]

We've just booked our two or three yearly venture into Melbourne traffic, with another trip across to Tassie on the boat in January.

On past trips, we have entered Melbourne either from Ballarat on the Western Freeway, or from South Coast / Geelong on the Princes Freeway, and then onto Westgate from either of these, so pretty straight forward.

This time however, we might be coming in from Bendigo, and I have just noticed that the direct route is via Calder Freeway, and then onto Tullamarine Freeway and Citylink, both of which Google Maps shows as Toll Roads.

What's the go with interstate travellers using the toll roads over there. Do you have to pay something up front, or do they record your vehicle registration number and send you a bill. Or do you just ignore them and don't pay anything ................. :twisted:

There are (so far) no Toll Roads in the West, so it's not something that I'm used to (although I did hear a rumour that there's a Grader Driver somewhere south of Perth who has been threatening to establish a roadblock and charge travellers a fee to pass). Last time I drove on Toll Roads was in Queensland a couple of years ago - but that was in a hire car that I collected at the airport which apparently was fitted with some sort of electronic tag. The bill for the hire car was paid for by my employer, so I never did get to see what toll fees I was charged.

We are hoping to be in Tassie around then Brian, leaving here around Xmas sometime.

Oh and there aren't any tolls in Tassie.

This should answer all your toll questions.
https://www.citylink.com.au/

[BMKal]

We are hoping to be in Tassie around then Brian, leaving here around Xmas sometime.

Oh and there aren't any tolls in Tassie.

This should answer all your toll questions.
https://www.citylink.com.au/

Thanks Baz. We'll have to keep in touch and see if we can manage to catch up. We're on the boat across on the 19th January.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Boat advice?
arrive ten minutes before departure.
they roll off the deck with trailers first anyway so you wont lose much. ;)

[vnx205]

On the subject of caravans, did anyone else notice the suggestion in a letter to the editor in the latest "Open Road".

Someone suggested that caravans should keep off the road until after 9 am and get off by 4 pm so that workers can get to and from work on time.

His argument is that caravanners are going nowehere and have all day to get there.

That should stir up some heated responses in the next edition. :)

[Pickles2]

I remember driving down the Great Ocean Rd several years ago, when We owned our HSV GTO.
We came upon a "caterpillar" of traffic, of about 15-20 cars, doing about 15Ks,..FIFTEEN ks!!,......anyway, it took me about 5 or 6 attempts passing about 3 cars at a time to get behind the "culprit", which was the driver of a current model Landcruiser towing a caravan,...doing FIFTEEN Ks. Got along side him, sounded the horn, gave him the finger,......didn't even look at me,......just kept waffling to his passenger, doing fifteen Ks and holding up an ever lengthening line behind him.
Even when We're in Gracie, We mightn't be doing the speed limit, in which case, if someone comes up behind us, we ALWAYS move over, & make it easy for them to pass.
Pickles.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

OMG!
why on earth didnt you road rage him off into the ocean??? He was obviously going that slow just to annoy you.

[Pickles2]

OMG!
why on earth didnt you road rage him off into the ocean??? He was obviously going that slow just to annoy you.
You think it's funny?
Not me, I think it's simply plain rude, uncaring, & unappreciative of other road users.
You don't think it was reasonable of me to be upset?
Pickles.
NB: It wasn't you driving the LandCruiser in question was it?

[Eevo]

NB: It wasn't you driving the LandCruiser in question was it?

he's pedro the swift, not the pedro the slow

[Melbourne Park]

I remember driving down the Great Ocean Rd several years ago, when We owned our HSV GTO.
We came upon a "caterpillar" of traffic, of about 15-20 cars, doing about 15Ks,..FIFTEEN ks!!,......anyway, it took me about 5 or 6 attempts passing about 3 cars at a time to get behind the "culprit", which was the driver of a current model Landcruiser towing a caravan,...doing FIFTEEN Ks. Got along side him, sounded the horn, gave him the finger,......didn't even look at me,......just kept waffling to his passenger, doing fifteen Ks and holding up an ever lengthening line behind him.
Even when We're in Gracie, We mightn't be doing the speed limit, in which case, if someone comes up behind us, we ALWAYS move over, & make it easy for them to pass.
Pickles.

At 15ks, he'd be using more fuel ... so scrub the low fuel excuse.

I guess its either drugs, or the Cruiser had something wrong with it ...

If only we could make citizen enquiries, and could use a portable blue flashing light for making the enquiry ... sadly that's highly illegal.

[Melbourne Park]

On the subject of caravans, did anyone else notice the suggestion in a letter to the editor in the latest "Open Road".

Someone suggested that caravans should keep off the road until after 9 am and get off by 4 pm so that workers can get to and from work on time.

His argument is that caravanners are going nowehere and have all day to get there.

That should stir up some heated responses in the next edition. :)

I think that does make sense! Also, I think trucks should not be allowed on the road during peak traffic in the big cities. Our road system has not kept up with the volume of cars on the road, and gridlock needs to be avoided.

Unfortunately caravans do deserve some criticism, because its often sensible to drive them below the speed limits. Plus there's a percentage out there of quite old drivers who really are no longer in the same ball park as Daniel Ricciardo. Add a big caravan being towed by a 6 cylinder XA Falcon or a 15 year old Magna ...

[Geedublya]

It's a load of bull****, on my daily commute I rarely see a caravan and if I do it is stuck in the traffic the same as I am. Sure it can't carve through the traffic like everyone else but that is inconsequential as it doesn't speed things up. They take up an extra carapace but in the scheme of things it's not significant. There are more trucks however I think they have every right to be there, remember they are doing something useful not just going to the shops or commuting to work when public transport could be used.
The problem with caravans is due to selfish inconsiderate drivers. Unlike some I don't have a problem with them doing less than the speed limit, however they need to allow people to pass safely when possible. Likewise people not towing shouldn't speed up to pass said caravan and then slow down once past.

[Eevo]

the caravan issue is only an issues outside of the cities.

they dont go inside the city limits cause they know noone will put up with their ****.

[alien]

I remember driving down the Great Ocean Rd several years ago, when We owned our HSV GTO.
We came upon a "caterpillar" of traffic, of about 15-20 cars, doing about 15Ks,..FIFTEEN ks!!,......anyway, it took me about 5 or 6 attempts passing about 3 cars at a time to get behind the "culprit", which was the driver of a current model Landcruiser towing a caravan,...doing FIFTEEN Ks. Got along side him, sounded the horn, gave him the finger,......didn't even look at me,......just kept waffling to his passenger, doing fifteen Ks and holding up an ever lengthening line behind him.
Even when We're in Gracie, We mightn't be doing the speed limit, in which case, if someone comes up behind us, we ALWAYS move over, & make it easy for them to pass.
Pickles.
-> ===

The following is a summation of many a conversation had at happy hour in any caravan park.


I can't believe how rude some people can be either.
The other day I was happily sitting on 78Km/h on the single lane sections of the road getting here.
As we all know it's the best pace for fuel economy and with on coming traffic it's to dangerous to go quicker with a tandem van.
On the overtaking lanes I speed up so I don't hold up the traffic.
These lanes are wider so it's safer to drive quicker and usually flat or down hill so use momentum keep the economy to 16/100.
Once back to single lanes the amount of cars passing on the double lines is staggering!
At least half honk their horn and some give the bird.
What's that about?
I always try to do the right thing by those following.

:banana: :Rolling::BigThumb::Rolling:

[alien]

I think that does make sense! Also, I think trucks should not be allowed on the road during peak traffic in the big cities. Our road system has not kept up with the volume of cars on the road, and gridlock needs to be avoided.

Unfortunately caravans do deserve some criticism, because its often sensible to drive them below the speed limits. Plus there's a percentage out there of quite old drivers who really are no longer in the same ball park as Daniel Ricciardo. Add a big caravan being towed by a 6 cylinder XA Falcon or a 15 year old Magna ...
In Melbourne they are going to start a new rail tunnel so our traffic problems will be fixed.
Everyone going to work and back can then catch public transport as they should be now.
This will free up the roads for heavy vehicles to deliver the goods that a 24 hour community demands.
Milk, bread, groceries and others foods products, fuel, car parts, housing products, clothing, etc.
That stuff we consume every day does not turn up by teleportation.
The trucks(paid by the load usually) are trying to earn some money while inconsiderate people drive cars instead of using public transport.


The slow caravan type folk don't do peak hour traffic if they can avoid it.
Too much wasted fuel idling along our 4 lane "carparks".
Evening peak hour and happy hour clash, happy hour usually wins as the must do event.
This is a major event of the day of a Grey Nomad type as tips on fuel consumption are discussed.

I'll go now :angel:

[AndyG]

Hear Hear agree entirely Kyle.

Lucky i live in Bialla PNG, where two cars at the only intersection , constitutes gridlock. Of course being a senior manager, the other vehicle invariably waves me through, regardless of the traffic rule. :p ;)

[alien]

Hear Hear agree entirely Kyle.

Lucky i live in Bialla PNG, where two cars at the only intersection , constitutes gridlock. Of course being a senior manager, the other vehicle invariably waves me through, regardless of the traffic rule. :p ;)

Bigger strips or the largest vehicle should always have right of way:)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

the caravan issue is only an issues outside of the cities.

they dont go inside the city limits cause they know noone will put up with their ****.

Good on ya Evo,

you all do realise all these constraints you want will eventually fall on you when you get older?
But not Evo,, I see many many cattleprods in his future.:twisted:

[V8Ian]

Good on ya Evo,

you all do realise all these constraints you want will eventually fall on you when you get older?
But not Evo,, I see many many cattleprods in his future.:twisted:
Do you see a future? ;)

[Toxic_Avenger]

I'm going to take this opportunity to raise a divergent yet equally annoying species on the road- horse people. $60k of horses traveling in $200k of vehicle and horse float, almost always going well below the limit.

Bugger your rhinestones and Bugger your rodeo, bugger your big hat and bugger your silly helmet. Learn to drive.

[austastar]

Yep,
Why would one trailer the original autonomous vehicles?

Cheers

[Mick_Marsh]

What about campervans? Drove past one the other day traveling well below the speed limit on the Hume.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/100165d1443872549-caravan-etiquette-thing-past-dsc_5410.jpg
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/100166d1443872549-caravan-etiquette-thing-past-dsc_5411.jpghttp://


I think he gave me the bird as I passed.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/100167d1443872549-caravan-etiquette-thing-past-dsc_5413.jpg

[grey_ghost]

Said Campervan was:

* In the left lane (always is)
* Doing between 85-95
* In that picture - trailing a truck
* On country roads - often pulls over when there are too many people behind
* Always slows down for passing lanes if somebody is behind
* Chewing through the fuel at 25+ ltrs per 100 km!!!

No birds were harmed during that particular adventure - only a friendly wave... :angel: :wasntme:

[Pickles2]

I've never towed a Caravan or anything else, but whatever I'm driving, if someone is behind me, and obviously is going quicker than us, and wants to pass, I'll move over, doesn't matter where I am, I'll always move over,......but, unfortunately, the same courtesy is often not afforded to us.
One of the stupidest things I've seen is cars travelling about 90-95 with a massive Kenworth or whatever immediately behind them,...all these people would be able to see in their rear view mirror would be the Kenworth Grill Badge,.....the truck would obviously like to be travelling at 100KPH, cannot overtake safely, so He's stuck behind, ...once again, I'd be moving over,.....but many don't?...That is not good, sensible driving, IMHO.
Pickles.

[DoubleChevron]

I've never towed a Caravan or anything else, but whatever I'm driving, if someone is behind me, and obviously is going quicker than us, and wants to pass, I'll move over, doesn't matter where I am, I'll always move over,......but, unfortunately, the same courtesy is often not afforded to us.
One of the stupidest things I've seen is cars travelling about 90-95 with a massive Kenworth or whatever immediately behind them,...all these people would be able to see in their rear view mirror would be the Kenworth Grill Badge,.....the truck would obviously like to be travelling at 100KPH, cannot overtake safely, so He's stuck behind, ...once again, I'd be moving over,.....but many don't?...That is not good, sensible driving, IMHO.
Pickles.

I'm not getting off the road with 2tons of caravan swinging behind me ......... Why don't you try it someday :wasntme: Let me know how you go :p

You can't just "pull off" ... to pull off you need to slow down to a safe space to move off the road. How do you think the semi driver is going to like you slowing to 15km/h to get off the road ............................ and slowing him to 15km/h in the process.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Eevo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3uuzI1jExY

[Pickles2]

I'm not getting off the road with 2tons of caravan swinging behind me ......... Why don't you try it someday :wasntme: Let me know how you go :p

You can't just "pull off" ... to pull off you need to slow down to a safe space to move off the road. How do you think the semi driver is going to like you slowing to 15km/h to get off the road ............................ and slowing him to 15km/h in the process.

seeya,
Shane L.
No, I was honest, I myself haven't towed a Caravan, but I've got many friends who have,.....and they ALL move over, when they can, in the appropriate manner. I've actually travelled with a few of 'em. And We've seen plenty who don't.
Lol.....I've been behind plenty of caravans where there was space to pull over,...."slowing down to 15ks"???!!!....Yeah right......If you read my post?...."CARS travelling at......"?
Pickles.

[DoubleChevron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3uuzI1jExY

It's a pommy 'van ... he'll have loaded weight in the back under the bed. There weight is concentrated over the axle (which helps stability). The problem is there is very little nose weight, so if you put heavy stuff at the back ....... that is the result.

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

No, I was honest, I myself haven't towed a Caravan, but I've got many friends who have,.....and they ALL move over, when they can, in the appropriate manner. I've actually travelled with a few of 'em. And We've seen plenty who don't.
Lol.....I've been behind plenty of caravans where there was space to pull over,...."slowing down to 15ks"???!!!....Yeah right......If you read my post?...."CARS travelling at......"?
Pickles.

I have .... Plenty of times I've been stuck doing for example 70->80km/h but there isn't a hope in hell I can move over and let the traffic past. Try towing from Geelong to Ballarat for example.

Best I can so it wait for the next small town and pull over by slowing to 15km/h and pulling off the road (but now in a 60 zone ) to let everyone by.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Yea Good onya Evo,,
I can post totally irrelevant vids too--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwLZ8UvN4_g

Its amazing to discover wealth is not a good driving prerequisite :Rolling:

[Eevo]

Yea Good onya Evo,,
I can post totally irrelevant vids too--


i didnt see 1 caravan!

[DiscoMick]

Its not just caravans. Yesterday I was travelling north on the Pacific Highway near Kempsey in heavy holiday traffic when I came upon a VERY, VERY, VERY LONNNGG queue in the roadworks which extend most of the way from Port Macquarie to Urunga. Long story short it emerged that the entire queue was being caused by a very elderly lady in an old Ford Fiesta whose approach to driving was simple - what ever the speed limit, travel 20 km/h below it. When the limit was 100, she did 80. When the limit dropped to 80 she did 60. When the limit was 60 she 40. Much, much, much later, the queue came upon a dual section with a 100 limit. Like a VERY determined weasel, the entire queue of at least maybe 60 vehicles (including George the Defender) rushed past her as fast as possible, fearing the road might narrow before they got past, each driver, and some passengers, leaning over to the left to glare at the old dear, who appeared to ignore them all (maybe she couldn't see them). My dearly beloved, who is normally the soul of patience and kindness, muttered very loudly about how some people should not have licences.
Incidentally, greeting to several oncoming Defender drivers who proved the Defender Wave is still very much alive.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[LandyAndy]

I had to do a parts run to the city today,it was urgent so I left Williams at 5.30am.
Caught up to 4 caravans between here and the city.What time do these grey nomads **** the bed????
Andrew

[crackers]

I had to do a parts run to the city today,it was urgent so I left Williams at 5.30am.
Caught up to 4 caravans between here and the city.What time do these grey nomads **** the bed????
Andrew

I've only been able to get up before my dad by not going to bed at all :eek: When they were travelling, he'd be the first one up in the caravan park and have the dew chammied off the car before first light burned it off.

[DiscoMick]

Was it John Cleese who said, in the famous Pythons sketch, that he got up before he went to bed?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[Pedro_The_Swift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
:D
actually written by Tim Brook-Taylor and Graham ???

[vnx205]

I had to do a parts run to the city today,it was urgent so I left Williams at 5.30am.
Caught up to 4 caravans between here and the city.What time do these grey nomads **** the bed????
Andrew

Perhaps you struck those grey nomads who were trying to do the right thing by avoiding being on the road at a time when it was full of commuters who have left it till the last minute to jump in their cars for the morning dash to work. :)

[Lionelgee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
:D
actually written by Tim Brook-Taylor and Graham ???



Hello Pedro

Tim Brooke-Taylor, Bill Oddie & Graeme Garden = "The Goodies" ran from 1970 to 1982.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Redback]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
:D
actually written by Tim Brook-Taylor and Graham ???


The sketch was originally written and performed for the 1967 British television comedy series At Last the 1948 Show by the show's four writer-performers: Tim Brooke-Taylor, John Cleese, Graham Chapman and Marty Feldman.

[DiscoMick]

Back on caravans. Travelling on the Pacific Highway last week there were a lot of caravans, mostly being well-driven. However, gotta say, some of the vans looked huge compared with the vehicles towing them.
I mean, I don't care if a vehicle is rated to tow 3.5 tonnes, if the thing being towed weighs say a tonne more than the vehicle towing it, that would just make me nervous, particularly on narrow single lane roads where opposing traffic is only separated by a painted line, the margin for error is just too low, I think.
Yes, I know trucks tow much heavier loads than the trucks themselves, but most truck drivers are experienced and doing it most days, not just going away on an annual holiday trip.

[V8Ian]

Yes, I know trucks tow much heavier loads than the trucks themselves, but most truck drivers are experienced and doing it most days, not just going away on an annual holiday trip.
The connection is usually between the axle groups, spreading the weight over said axle groups that are designed to carry the weight. A caravan coupling is generally feet behind the rear axle (group), with potential to overload the rear axle whilst reducing the weight over the front axle.

[Lionelgee]

The sketch was originally written and performed for the 1967 British television comedy series At Last the 1948 Show by the show's four writer-performers: Tim Brooke-Taylor, John Cleese, Graham Chapman and Marty Feldman.

Hello Redback,

You mean this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwJQQyF0yy0

Kind Regards
Lionel

[goingbush]

saw this on a Facebook site, no details on the prang tho
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/10424315_787028554751569_1357679394921559245_n.jpg ?oh=47c653832625d6efb94c6172ae92d612&oe=5685A21D&__gda__=1456329620_73f84dc3928e090b009630109230958 8

[DiscoMick]

Big caravan to tow.

[Eevo]

its just having a lie down

[crackers]

saw this on a Facebook site, no details on the prang tho


Wasn't a prang, he just wanted to adjust his brakes and didn't feel like jacking everything up :wasntme:

[pop058]

Are they WA plates ??

[goingbush]

Yes WA plates, going on the style floor joists with the elongated holes it looks like a Jayco .

just googled the image and found this http://candm.com.au/wp-content/uploads/abs.jpg