Defender thoughts

[pommy]

Just after some people's thoughts got a quite modified 99 Td5 110 defender , 35 inch tyres front rear lockers stronger axles etc , usually got something to fix at moment got problems with death wobbles which trying to sort out .
Any way wife suggested I get brand new one before they are finished ( already checked with one dealer they got couple ) am I mad ? What does people think I should do ? never thought I would sell this one but she won't let me keep 2 !

[jimr1]

G'day mate , I was in the same position as you . 1999 TD5 starting to show signs of age . Nothing major , just little jobs . We wont to do some long journey travel , I just feelt the TD5 was going to be taking a risk , after all It's 16 years old . Do I spend lots of $$ or upgrade ? Well I bit the bullet and brought a new one , just up to the first 1ks . Do I like It ? and did I make the right decision ? There's no doubt that It is a lot better then the TD5 , but , It does have some faults . I will overcome them , but not every one does . Good luck whatever you decide !!.. Jim :)

[Pickles2]

Get a new one. The $ "effort" will mean little in a few years,.....if that is a worry (always is for me!). If not, just get one!
Pickles.

[TeamFA]

Completely personal decision. We also have a fairly modified TD5 ('02) 110, 35" tyres and all the kit to make them work well, Maxidrive front/rear, upgraded CVs, shafts etc.

For us, the expense in upgrading to a new one, then making it as capable as the old one, would be too great. The $$$ difference would be spent in easily repairing stuff that breaks, and will pay for a lot of camping trips to boot.

If reliability is a prime concern, though, then obviously the older a vehicle gets the more chance it's going to let you down.

There aren't many places in Australia that you can get into too much trouble in, really, if your vehicle breaks down. If you're travelling remote in an older vehicle, look at breakdown/recovery options and carry a satphone.

Changeover $$$ to a new vehicle, then getting it the way you want it, can add up to a lot.

Good luck with whatever way you go!

[Grumbles]

Where can you go in Oz that a new stock as a rock model Defender can't go. You may not [won't?] need all those exy extras currently which are fitted to your old car on a new one. A new Defer may be more capable and almost certainly more reliable than your old one.

Then there is the luck factor. Will your old Defer break down on your travels resulting in lost valuable holiday time, the added cost of parts and repairs, waiting time for parts to arrive etc plus the niggling fear factor of will it or won't it break down.

With a new one the likelihood of it being a show stopper is remote/unlikely plus if the worst did happen then you have the resources of Landrover via the new car warranty to get you back on the road.

Certainly there is lots to think about. Good Luck!

[tact]

Where can you go in Oz that a new stock as a rock model Defender can't go. You may not [won't?] need all those exy extras currently which are fitted to your old car on a new one...

Rather broad comment, likely correct for a certain kind of focus. But really depends on the kind of fun a feller wants to get out of his defer.

For example if the focus is on conquering really hard trails (as opposed to touring) then I can take you 5min from my place to a trail a stock Defender will not go. (I know, I tackled it in mine when it was stock). For sure I got further than lifted, locked and loaded toys and pajeros got. Defender pride still intact.

Point made right? For touring, maybe even cape trips, a stock defer is good to go. But if jollies mean hard core trails then mods are the go.

Don't get me wrong. I am not a big time vehicle modder. The mods to my defer are minimal. 33" tyres were just a tyre replacement (no spacers, no new rims, no change to susp or offsets), Ashcroft ATBs front and rear, a BAS tune, removed sidesteps and raised the rear plough bar up a bit.

I have no plans for raised air intake, bullbars, or winch. Am not intending to go anywhere needing that kit.

[clive22]

Hi

I run a heavily modified county 110 and a stock 130 for touring. If you want to do family touring deserts you don't need the mods.

On the other hand my vehicle is a Reefton here in Vic and many of the tracks around during winter are essentially impassable without fully lugged 35s tyres, twin lockers, winches, etc.

Work out what you want to do with a build it to that.

It really shouldn't death wobble. My doesn't well now it doesn't. Get caster corrected ball joints or have your current ones drilled and check everything else particularly king pin/swivels, ball joints, etc.

Clive

[karlz]

Any way wife suggested I get brand new one before they are finished

Listen to the wife!

Puma is good

[jimr1]

I'll come back on this one , My TD5 , as I said been a great vehicle and still is , but everything is getting to a point that It needs replacing , or overhauling . New hoses , water pump , alternator pulley bearings . Radiator , plus the wiring is starting to go hard . the list goes on . How good is the dual mass flywheel or clutch . As I say It's all working , but and It's a big but ? Do I replace all these bits , or wait for them to fail ? My thought were If I go down this road , and spend lots of $$ It's still 15 old Land Rover . That is one of the big factors that helped me make my decision !!.. :)Jim

[n plus one]

Just after some people's thoughts got a quite modified 99 Td5 110 defender , 35 inch tyres front rear lockers stronger axles etc , usually got something to fix at moment got problems with death wobbles which trying to sort out .
Any way wife suggested I get brand new one before they are finished ( already checked with one dealer they got couple ) am I mad ? What does people think I should do ? never thought I would sell this one but she won't let me keep 2 !

Unless you want the creature comforts of the newer model (notably the A/C) stay with what you've got. You can easily drop $15k on upgrades on a new Puma to get it where yours is and then you still owe ~$60k on the Puma, less say $20k resale on your TD5.

Alternatively, you can drop the $15k on your TD5 and have a reliable vehicle that is functionally identical to the Puma in almost every respect.

I like my Puma, but I'd be a lot better off financially if I'd kept my TD5, and I'd still be doing the same trips.

[AndyG]

A factor is ones mechanical skills, can you do a lot of preventative maintenance yourself, and similar on the side of the road.
Some can, some cant

[DiscoMick]

The Pumas seem to be significantly improved on the old ones. Plus, stock they will go pretty much everywhere you are likely to go. Much more reliable too so you won't be fixing things all the time. And it's the end of an iconic vehicle, so buy some history. Listen to the wife.

[TeamFA]

A factor is ones mechanical skills, can you do a lot of preventative maintenance yourself, and similar on the side of the road.
Some can, some cant

Definitely something to consider.

Each time I fix something with Defender, I become that bit more mechanically/electrically familiar with it. To me that familiarity is worth a lot. It would take me a while to gather that experience on a new car.

[BilboBoggles]

With a new one you don't have to worry about repairs - and if you work for a large company, then servicing for 3 years. I was/am averaging 3-12k per year on maintaining my TD5 Defender. The savings paid for the lease on a new one. I don't have the time, and can't live without two vehicles to be able to do major repairs my self so that's why maintaining it costs so much.

Ironically I could not get rid of the TD5, and still have it. It was my first brand new vehicle - and now that its used less - so my repair bills have dropped. I decided to keep it till it will go no more, and plan to keep spending whatever it takes to keep it going... (It's probably about due a head gasket - head and perhaps a gearbox rebuild.) Just about to hit 270,000ks. I recently had a new clutch/flywheel/harmonic balancer/rear main/ complete rear axle disk to disk)

There is no logic where land rover's are concerned...


Having got both side by side - I would say the Puma is an improvement in some areas (important ones) and a regression in others (quality). If you have more than 2 kids - the PUMA with the 7 seat option is bloody brilliant. The seats are much better in the PUMA, and the A/C is improved (if it's working OK). The TD5 was better put together and you can seem many cost cutting things were done to the PUMA. My TD5 is chipped/no exhaust/no EGR'd/etc and goes really well - it's a little bit faster than the PUMA. The PUMA's not to bad though.

If I could only keep one Defender I would pick the PUMA, it looks nicer.

[TeamFA]

There is no logic where land rover's are concerned...

Spot on...

[pommy]

Many thanks for everybody's replies Ian going to have a look and drive of one on Saturday let's see what happens . Richard

[cuppabillytea]

My Wife told me to get a new car,so I got a puma. Very happy chappy here.
Cheers Billy.

[cuppabillytea]

Rather broad comment, likely correct for a certain kind of focus. But really depends on the kind of fun a feller wants to get out of his defer.

For example if the focus is on conquering really hard trails (as opposed to touring) then I can take you 5min from my place to a trail a stock Defender will not go. (I know, I tackled it in mine when it was stock). For sure I got further than lifted, locked and loaded toys and pajeros got. Defender pride still intact.

Point made right? For touring, maybe even cape trips, a stock defer is good to go. But if jollies mean hard core trails then mods are the go.

Don't get me wrong. I am not a big time vehicle modder. The mods to my defer are minimal. 33" tyres were just a tyre replacement (no spacers, no new rims, no change to susp or offsets), Ashcroft ATBs front and rear, a BAS tune, removed sidesteps and raised the rear plough bar up a bit.

I have no plans for raised air intake, bullbars, or winch. Am not intending to go anywhere needing that kit.
Do you Know of anything that will go up that track Neil?

[tact]

Do you Know of anything that will go up that track Neil?

Yeah, for sure. It's not an impossible trail. Any decently prepared/modded barge with a reasonably experienced driver can make it. A little luck also helping, and maybe a few try's at it.

There is no way a stock defender (much less the usual suspects in stock trim) would go all the way.

But on a good day - sometimes a pretty ordinary driver can get a stock vehicle further than a poor driver in better (modded) vehicle.

[DiscoMick]

Yeah, for sure. It's not an impossible trail. Any decently prepared/modded barge with a reasonably experienced driver can make it. A little luck also helping, and maybe a few try's at it.

There is no way a stock defender (much less the usual suspects in stock trim) would go all the way.

But on a good day - sometimes a pretty ordinary driver can get a stock vehicle further than a poor driver in better (modded) vehicle.



So, just curious, what's the issue on that trail - clearance or traction?

[tact]

So, just curious, what's the issue on that trail - clearance or traction?

For a stock barge? I don't think the real answer is one or the other (clearance/traction). There's more to it than that. (This is going to be like a trip report from here).

The trail starts with a moderately steep climb of about 40-50m under a heavy jungle canopy. Meaning that it's permanently shaded, damp thick rainforest leaf litter on a reasonably firm clay base. Moss covered rocks of varying diameters (from bowling ball size to Volkswagen Beetle size) protrude above the soil to varying degrees from just a few inches to several feet. Rocks spaced such that almost everywhere at least one wheel will always be on a rock.

Right at the outset traction with AT tyres is an issue. My defender idled up but not without some slippy slippy shakes and hops. A stock triton went up before me but he had to charge 3-4 attempts. The modified, lifted, large tyred Jeep Cherokee before him cleared easily.

At this point there is a tight right turn putting your vehicle side-sloped (the trail isn't a graded level path) and an immediate drop, while side sloped, into a V-gully. The banks of the gully are about the same length as my 110" wheelbase. There is an 18" wide stream flowing at the bottom of the V over rounded rocks and holes. The included angle of the V was such that I just dragged my stock towbar at the rear.

As soon as front wheels start up the far side of the gully you need hard left lock. Still side-sloped here, turning head now more towards uphill to exit the V-gully at an angle between a large tree and a large boulder. So all kinds of cross axle action happening, at weird side angles, as you enter and exit the V-gully, all on the side of a slope.

My defender walked through this. This was the part that really surprised me regards the stock defender capability. This is where some of the others in more modified vehicles had issues.

I suspect that stock suspension on the defender was better at keeping wheels on the ground through odd angles than (some) of the jacked up barges. Also thinking that having the centre diff unlocked when side-sloped and turning tightly across those odd angles helped.

I wasn't really paying a lot of attention but did notice one of the modded barges had a rear wheel lifted where I did not lift a wheel...when rear diff was locked the rear wheel still on the ground just broke traction. (Downhill side on side slope with vehicle wedged against a tree). I had steered around the bigger trees and rocks without slipping off my line (much).

Up a little further the Cherokee kept going and my lack of clearance stopped me following.

So clearance ultimately stopped me. Lack of traction(?less driving wheels on the ground) stopped a truck or two with plenty of clearance for that part of the trail.

Slippery side slopes are one place where I have found that having less than 4 wheels differentiating means you slide down slope a little (or a lot) for every bit of forward progress across the slope. Unlocked diffs (incl center diff) may mean a little downhill slippage traversing side slopes. Locked centre diff (and part time 4wd in 4wd) means a bit more side slip traversing. Locked front/centre/rear diffs means a LOT of side slip while traversing (have seen 1:1 in some conditions in the jungle!)

[Scallops]

I'm an intermediate case - have a 2007 Puma which has caused me little grief - and given plenty of fun. It's decked out with everything a man could want to go tour Oz......and I have.

Would I trade it on a new one? Me - no. If its rock solid and paid for, I reckon the cost of keeping her that way is my best option.

Seriously - if I were you, I'd keep your TD5 going.

PS - Disclaimer - I keep a 1956 Series 1 going. (and so should the rest of ya louts!:D)

[cuppabillytea]

But, are there enough to go around?

[Scallops]

But, are there enough to go around?

For those that look hard enough? Probably. At the moment anyhow.:)

Thanks for being enthusiastic, cuppa.....might I say, one joy I have driving my S1 is the enthusiasm of new Defender driver's waves when they see me out and about.....long may the Land Rover love live! :D

[cuppabillytea]

Amen.:) Actually, I think it will be a 101 for me.

[steane]

I think the winner in this will be whoever ends up with the TD5.

[JoeFriend]

I think the winner in this will be whoever ends up with the TD5.

Agreed!

If you do sell it, just make sure you do a thorough background check to ensure the person buying it is committed to keeping it on the road!!

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[pommy]

Well looks like iam going to be doing another build soon picking up the new one this week misses was impressed now got to try and convince her to letting me keep the TD5 thanks for everyone's opinions