300tdi into RRC Advice

[tb3]

Hi all,

I find that there is not a whole heap of fresh information regarding this matter so here goes.

The plan is to drop a 300/200tdi into my existing 1990 3.9 auto RRC. 200tdi would be ideal but seeing as they are not so common these days an early 300tdi will suffice. Either way, a donor car will be used. Below is my expected plan of attack as worded to the RMS technical division with what I understand will take place:

My intensions are to transplant a 2.5L 4 cylinder turbo diesel engine from a 1990-1994 Land Rover Discovery. I will also transplant the corresponding 5 speed MANUAL gearbox (R380) and the required additional foot pedals as well as all other ancillary parts for the success of the conversion. This includes small modifications to the fuel delivery system and engine bay wiring loom.

The transmission tunnel will require no modifications to fit the new transmission. The necessary crossmember and/or transmission mounts will also be fitted the Range Rover. The Range Rover and the Discovery come out of the factory with the same chassis and differing bodies mounted to them. In saying this, the engine mounting brackets on the Range Rover chassis will need to be modified to accommodate the differing diesel engine mounts found on the Discovery motor. This will be done by removing the engine mounting brackets from the Discovery chassis and fixing them to the Range Rover chassis in place of the existing Range Rover brackets.

Excuse the extensive description of a simple theory.

My question? - I would love to hear from those whom have untaken the challenge. I have had it described to me as relatively simple which, in theory, it is. I have also been told that others have experience nil issues in re-registering the vehicle in NSW. As much as I would like this to be the case - the Vehicle Standards Information - Light Vehicle Modifications PDF on the RMS website implies I will require VSCCS certification which I am in the process of enquiring about.

Is a complete body swap and easier option - that is RRC body onto Disco chassis.

Thanks in advance,
Tom

Here is a pic of the subject RRC because everyone likes pics

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/tb3/IMG_0812_zpst3idfs7w.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/tb3/media/IMG_0812_zpst3idfs7w.jpg.html)

[bee utey]

The only trouble you'll have with a chassis swap is that your vehicle will legally become a Discovery and all its ADRs will apply. Not sure what changed between 1990 and 1994 but I wouldn't take the risk myself without explicit legal guidance.

As for a 300TDi conversion, I did one to a mate's 1994 LSE in South Australia and the engineer that did the inspection didn't have any quibbles at all about the rewelded engine mounts. Careful measuring of the Disco mounts, cutting them off with a slitting wheel in the angle grinder, cleaning and MIG welding the mounts to the RRC and painting them with black rust paint was all entirely acceptable to the engineer.

You may find it easier to swap the fuel pipes with the RRC body raised slightly off the chassis, the plastic clips are on top of the chassis and access without breaking them all was a fiddle. The 300TDi fuel system fittings all had homes on the '94 with pre-existing holes, I'm not sure how the 1990 is. If your 1990 has the plastic fuel tank the D1 pickup should drop straight in. The steel tank would need the EFI pump removing.

Ditto the wiring, air conditioning and power steering, the Disco stuff was a clip/bolt in fit into the '94 but you'll have more work on a 1990 as they are quite a bit different. You may be able to unpick the entire power steering kit off the D1 as we did, saves making any new hoses. The RRC one was leaking like a sieve in any case.

[tb3]

Thanks for the reply. All useful knowledge I can apply when the time comes

[Scouse]

There was a great thread on this conversion last year:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/194042-300tdi-range-rover-classic-conversion.html


Try to find the thread by LRHybrid too - he's in NSW but it was a while ago now.
This thread of his might have some applicable info for you:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/21016-range-rover-body-onto-disco-chassis.html


**LRH build here:
http://www.users.on.net/~LRHybrid100/TDI.html

[DoubleChevron]

I'm surprised you guys don't fit a diesel that has some power if your going to go to all the effort of an engine swap. Its seems like a big step backwards from the wheezy V8 to an even wheezier oil burner :wasntme: :o :p :D

seeya,
Shane L.

[BigJon]

I agree, but what would you fit?

[loanrangie]

I'm surprised you guys don't fit a diesel that has some power if your going to go to all the effort of an engine swap. Its seems like a big step backwards from the wheezy V8 to an even wheezier oil burner :wasntme: :o :p :D

seeya,
Shane L.

A good tdi will leave an rrc v8 eating dust.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[BigJon]

What is the definition of a good Tdi?

[DoubleChevron]

A good tdi will leave an rrc v8 eating dust.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

190hp 320Nm V8 versus 111hp 264Nm 300tdi ................ Um, I guess it's possible when the V8 runs out of fuel ..... :wasntme:

What engine would I use. Now that's the question. I have no idea. Would the territory/D3 V6 TDi fit :twisted: Or wuld that just blow diffs and gearboxes.

[loanrangie]

One that hadnt done a million k's and doesnt lose more oil than diesel , comparing apples with apples of course ie both stock.

[BigJon]

What engine would I use. Now that's the question. I have no idea. Would the territory/D3 V6 TDi fit :twisted: Or wuld that just blow diffs and gearboxes.

Just about any engine will blow stock gearboxes and diffs. That is part of the problem. Upgrading the engine will almost definitely require upgrading the rest of the drivetrain, which starts to get expensive.

[SSmith]

Would the territory/D3 V6 TDi fit :twisted: Or wuld that just blow diffs and gearboxes.

It has been done http://www.bodylogicuk.com/index.php/11/327141/

Plenty of low k ex territory tdv6's is going for around 4k
Tempted, very tempted

But yes, lots of weak links to sort out

[DoubleChevron]

It has been done http://www.bodylogicuk.com/index.php/11/327141/

Plenty of low k ex territory tdv6's is going for around 4k
Tempted, very tempted

But yes, lots of weak links to sort out

Now THAT is something I'd try to do :) .... If your gentle in low range the stock drivetrain may last in high range ok :confused: :confused:

seeya,
Shane L.

[p38arover]

LR used to produce a kit for converting the RRC to a 300Tdi. I have the LR brochure here.

[tb3]

LR used to produce a kit for converting the RRC to a 300Tdi. I have the LR brochure here.

Is this something that is still available? Would be very interested.

Reasons for converting to 300tdi over the many other options available comes down to the ease and cost of obtaining the wreck and the interchangeability between the donor and receiver. Essentially because the parts are somewhat made to fit the same chassis. Additionally engineering a motor from the same manufacturer is far simpler than the alternatives.

For those interested, through contact with one of many engineering companies in Sydney, a VSCCS for this kind of work is valued at about $1200-$1600.

Appreciate the feedback thus far!

Tom.

[p38arover]

Is this something that is still available? Would be very interested.

Possibly in the UK. However, having a copy of the brochure might make getting it engineered easier as it is a factory mod. I'll look in my box of LR docs to see if I can find it. Regrettably, at the moment I don't have a working desktop PC (to which my SCSI scanner is attached) to do any scanning.

[tb3]

No problem. Don't go out of your way.

Cheers.

[rwlse]

Its an easy conversion if you some mechanical knowledge. I've done two,one in an LSE, soft dash. The only serious mod is the engine mounts in the front. otherwise its all interchangeable ,As the V8's and the Tdi's came down the same assembly line. The earlier cars ,as well as engine mounts will need a little time spent on the wiring and air-con. You will need the Disco front drive shaft,and it is better if you use the Disco feultank filters and lines and lines.
If you need help let me know I will be happy to help you.
Richard

[Chucaro]

I also was thinking in fitting a Tdi in my 1986 RRC with a 3.9 V8. I will save $70 a week in petrol which will be more than $3500 a year!
My RRC is manual with a Disco R380 box but the box will need mods to use it on a Tdi .
Perhaps it is cheaper to sell the RRC and get a tdi Disco even if it is going backwards..............

[bee utey]

I also was thinking in fitting a Tdi in my 1986 RRC with a 3.9 V8. I will save $70 a week in petrol which will be more than $3500 a year!
My RRC is manual with a Disco R380 box but the box will need mods to use it on a Tdi .
Perhaps it is cheaper to sell the RRC and get a tdi Disco even if it is going backwards..............
Just buy a complete manual 300TDi D1 for wrecking, it will cost you less than paying anyone for the loose parts. When I was looking for one there were 5 times as many manuals for sale than autos, so it shouldn't be too hard to find a donor vehicle. You can drive it around until the moment you decide to do the Big Swap.

[tb3]

If you need help let me know I will be happy to help you.
Richard

Appreciate it Richard


Just buy a complete manual 300TDi D1 for wrecking.

Definitely. I have been enquiring with All 4x4 Spares in Newcastle area for a complete wreck. They seem to have loads of manual Tdi's.

[rwlse]

Just buy a complete manual 300TDi D1 for wrecking, it will cost you less than paying anyone for the loose parts. When I was looking for one there were 5 times as many manuals for sale than autos, so it shouldn't be too hard to find a donor vehicle. You can drive it around until the moment you decide to do the Big Swap.

Oh yes the big swap. The last one I did for my son took two week ends and some evenings in between the weekends. That conversion was a little complicated as the car was originally an auto and we had to convert it to manual. This involved modifying the bulk head cover plate to fit a clutch master cylinder as there was nothing available from the wreckers.

[rwlse]

Appreciate it Richard



Definitely. I have been enquiring with All 4x4 Spares in Newcastle area for a complete wreck. They seem to have loads of manual Tdi's.

Firstly always happy to help.
Secondly, I found it easier to go out and buy a complete car and wreck it. That way you get all the little bits .Hoses, fuel lines, filters, tanks, radiators and cooling bits etc. And of course you can hear it running. There are a lot of rusted out Discos around...
Richard.

[UncleHo]

I have a friend that has an 88 fitted with a 300TDI and R380 goes well,only thing he had to fit was a seperate temp gauge,as the RRC one didn't match up electrically so it runs a 50mm VDO by the trans tunnel,cable speedo fits ok too.

cheers