What have they done?

[Chappo]

I had my 2012 D4 serviced yesterday and just as they finished, the motor began over revving, a huge bank of white smoke and then copious amount of engine oil on the ground, along with a few bits of shiny metal.

Any ideas of what caused this and how much to repair. It is still under warranty thank goodness.

[Eevo]

need a photo

[Tombie]

Sounds like an over speed incident from a leaking turbo feeding the engine its own oil...

You'll be getting a shiny new engine I think if thats the case...

[PerthDisco]

Lots of fun videos on the internet - scary

Hope all is OK

[cuppabillytea]

Sounds like an over speed incident from a leaking turbo feeding the engine its own oil...

You'll be getting a shiny new engine I think if thats the case...
Yikes:eek: I never imagined that one. I'll be checking my hoses fore excessive oil quite frequently from now on. Thanks once again Tombie. This forum owes you a shiny Gold Star!!!:twobeers: or a couple of beers at least.

[cuppabillytea]

Lots of fun videos on the internet - scary

Hope all is OK

A 4-71 is a 2 stroke diesel with a Roots Blower. Not a Turbo. Something else went wrong there.

[shanegtr]

Yikes:eek: I never imagined that one. I'll be checking my hoses fore excessive oil quite frequently from now on. Thanks once again Tombie. This forum owes you a shiny Gold Star!!!:twobeers: or a couple of beers at least.
Hoses don't really have anything to do with it - its normally the internal turbo shaft seals leaking enough oil into the intake for the engine to run on it

[cuppabillytea]

Hoses don't really have anything to do with it - its normally the internal turbo shaft seals leaking enough oil into the intake for the engine to run on it
I realise that, but if you are looking for signs that the seals are leaking, a good place to look would be inside your turbo hoses for any more than a light smear of oil. Father than wait for white smoke to appear at the exhaust. Wouldn't it?
Cheers, Billy.

[SBD4]

Can happen if engine is overfilled with oil too.

[AndyG]

Going back to post 1, that sounds likely

[shanegtr]

I realise that, but if you are looking for signs that the seals are leaking, a good place to look would be inside your turbo hoses for any more than a light smear of oil. Father than wait for white smoke to appear at the exhaust. Wouldn't it?
Cheers, Billy.
Good point, I was assuming from your original post that you where talking about oil supply/drain hoses.

[Chappo]

Can happen if engine is overfilled with oil too.

I think this may have been the cause.

Thanks

[SBD4]

Sounds like the workshop will be up for the cost of a new engine. Was it a dealer or independent that did the work?

If you end up with any pics it would be good to see them.

Best of luck getting it sorted out, hopefully there wont be any hassles.

Let us know how you go.

[Chappo]

Sounds like the workshop will be up for the cost of a new engine. Was it a dealer or independent that did the work?

If you end up with any pics it would be good to see them.

Best of luck getting it sorted out, hopefully there wont be any hassles.

Let us know how you go.

A Dealership. I am still awaiting their decision.

[cuppabillytea]

Good point, I was assuming from your original post that you where talking about oil supply/drain hoses.
Fair call . I could have beeb clearer.;)

[PerthDisco]

A 4-71 is a 2 stroke diesel with a Roots Blower. Not a Turbo. Something else went wrong there.

More just the pain of seeing a diesel revving its absolute guts out. That engine certainly woke up with a bang after 30 years.

I'd be so glad I witnessed it and did not just get a new turbo or other quick fix if the damage was isolated.

Sorry about the swear words in the video. Had to watch it again to see what I missed. Just a couple of good old boys. Pretty tame........................................

[NTB]

Hello Guys,

Where is the link to the Video you are all talking about with the A-71 2 Stroke Diesel.

[LandyAndy]

Hello Guys,

Where is the link to the Video you are all talking about with the A-71 2 Stroke Diesel.

It was deleted due to the language it contains,to view it simply search A-71 2 Stroke Diesel runaway on utube.
Andrew

[Eevo]

Hello Guys,

Where is the link to the Video you are all talking about with the A-71 2 Stroke Diesel.

its been removed as it was against forum rules.

[PAT303]

It was deleted due to the language it contains,to view it simply search A-71 2 Stroke Diesel runaway on utube.
Andrew

A bloke had a common knocker running at the Waroona show last week end,you could hear the thing from a mile away. Pat

[PeterOZ]

Man that takes me back. My dad had one of those when I was a kid. I leant to drive on old internationals, Bedfords and the like.

[NTB]

Thanks Andrew and Eevo,

I have worked with a lot of Detroit 2 Stroke engines for power generation years ago, before they stopped production. Mostly worked on the 92 and 149 Series but did one project with a 24V 71 Series. That was a lot of cylinders.
I found that they were the best power to weight ratio diesel around with there Blowers and Turbo Chargers. Not anymore with the modem common rail electronic industrial diesels.

[cafe latte]

Years ago back in the UK I borrowed an old diesel VW Jetta from a friend. It was a bit smoky but otherwise it ran good. I drove it on the motorway when I was on the way to visit my parents and after about 35 miles the engine started revving big time. The car went way faster with me slamming the breaks on trying to slow the car down time and a huge cloud of smoke came out the exhaust :eek:. I rang my friend up telling him what had happened, he replied, err yes it does that after 30-40 miles :eek: On the return trip home after 25 miles I was rather nervous waiting for the secret boots to kick in, even though I was expecting it when it did it still scared the pants off me.. A similar problem , but the Jetta only did it for maybe 20 seconds then everything calmed down apart the driver..
Chris

[AnD3rew]

So any update on the diagnosis and rectification?

[Chappo]

So any update on the diagnosis and rectification?

I just spoke with the SM. He is still awaiting confirmation from the insurance people. As soon as he gets it he will commence stripping my motor out to save time. He suggests that a LRA Reconditioned Engine is a good alternative to a second hand engine. They have found a 2nd hand one with only 34K on the clock. He said one of the benefits of a 'Factory reconditioned Engine' is that they can retain my original engine number. Not sure how that works. Estimate of cost $30 to $40K.

[winaje]

I just spoke with the SM. He is still awaiting confirmation from the insurance people. As soon as he gets it he will commence stripping my motor out to save time. He suggests that a LRA Reconditioned Engine is a good alternative to a second hand engine. They have found a 2nd hand one with only 34K on the clock. He said one of the benefits of a 'Factory reconditioned Engine' is that they can retain my original engine number. Not sure how that works. Estimate of cost $30 to $40K.

So let me get this right.

Vehicle under warranty
Driven into a dealership in working order for a scheduled service
Whilst being serviced at dealership, engine runs on and detonates
$30-$40k to fix?

I'd sure as all heck be hoping that you don't have to pay a cent!

Doubt you could have done more to adhere to LR requirements for approved vehicle maintenance...

It'll be VERY interesting to see how this pans out.

[p38arover]

A bloke had a common knocker running at the Waroona show last week end,you could hear the thing from a mile away. Pat

As in a common as muck Commer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrAoj5Cuu68

[p38arover]

I just spoke with the SM. He is still awaiting confirmation from the insurance people. As soon as he gets it he will commence stripping my motor out to save time. He suggests that a LRA Reconditioned Engine is a good alternative to a second hand engine. They have found a 2nd hand one with only 34K on the clock. He said one of the benefits of a 'Factory reconditioned Engine' is that they can retain my original engine number. Not sure how that works. Estimate of cost $30 to $40K.

Hang on. Let me get this straight. The service manager suggests a factory reco is better but they want to fit a secondhand engine?

[PeterOZ]

I just spoke with the SM. He is still awaiting confirmation from the insurance people. As soon as he gets it he will commence stripping my motor out to save time. He suggests that a LRA Reconditioned Engine is a good alternative to a second hand engine. They have found a 2nd hand one with only 34K on the clock. He said one of the benefits of a 'Factory reconditioned Engine' is that they can retain my original engine number. Not sure how that works. Estimate of cost $30 to $40K.





Serious? they blow your engine up and want to fit a second hand or a recon engine. My souces say they are yet to recondition these engines, could be wrong of course.


I'd be have a very strong chat to the SM. Push for a new engine, whatever their insurance company says is not your problem.


They were negligent! You have a rock solid legal arguement. :nazilock::censored:

[simmo]

Hi Chappo, Wow $30-40 k cost, ( I'll sell you my car for half that :))

A good second hand engine with 34,000 on it would be OK with me provided my car had done more KMs than that, I think they are only obliged to provide like for like replacement. If your engine had done 100,000 kms a 34,000 kms engine would be a good deal I think. But it's good to have the all original numbers, when you go to sell your car, you don't have to explain; (oh my first engine exploded and got a new one etc :twisted: ). What's a worry, it would be nice to know how they managed to blow up a good engine though, how did the oil get into the turbo intake in the first place I wonder? It's a real turn off for me to think about a car that it costs 30-40K to get the engine changed. :wasntme:

[Chappo]

All good on my part. not going to cost me anything. It all belongs them :)

[Chappo]

He is not recommending the 2nd hand or the refurbed. Apparently you can get a Factory Refurb for JLA Australia????. He said he would not entertain one done privately or by a recon shop. Says there are points for and against both. I agree that they only need to return the vehicle as is was and as my car had 90K on it, I reckon with a 34K engine, I am a little in front. Whether I have a good legal argument or not, I don't have the good bank balance to finance a challenge if I loose.

They have admitted liability so I will wait and see. He is certainly saying all of the right things to me at present.

All I know is that it :wasntme:

[Chappo]

I have been told that the body needs to be removed from the chassis to replace the engine. They also need to replace or get everything chemically cleaned to ensure there are no little bits floating in any of the existing components. A BIG job.

The car is a HSE and in excellent condition. I have just had it set up with dual batteries, wiring to two Anderson Plugs, as the van has Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and also all of the requirements for monitoring the Electric Brakes from within the car to tow our 3 tonne van.

I am just glad I wasn't about to set off around the big paddock.

[letherm]

Might be an idea to point out the electrical extras you've put in as they may raise the body without taking them into account and rip the wiring out by accident.

Martin

[cuppabillytea]

I think you're on a winner Chappo, if you can call it that. Best of luck.
Cheers, Billy.

[simmo]

happy for you mate, good luck :)

[p38arover]

It's a real turn off for me to think about a car that it costs 30-40K to get the engine changed. :wasntme:

Certainly a scary thought!

[Chappo]

Might be an idea to point out the electrical extras you've put in as they may raise the body without taking them into account and rip the wiring out by accident.

Martin

Thanks Martin, I will do that today :BigThumb:

[p38arover]

I have been told that the body needs to be removed from the chassis to replace the engine. They also need to replace or get everything chemically cleaned to ensure there are no little bits floating in any of the existing components. A BIG job.

It is surprisingly easy and quick to remove/refit the body. I help out on an RRS once and posted pics here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/129096-engine-replacement-rrs-supercharged.html

[lpj]

I have been told that the body needs to be removed from the chassis to replace the engine. They also need to replace or get everything chemically cleaned to ensure there are no little bits floating in any of the existing components. A BIG job.

The car is a HSE and in excellent condition. I have just had it set up with dual batteries, wiring to two Anderson Plugs, as the van has Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and also all of the requirements for monitoring the Electric Brakes from within the car to tow our 3 tonne van.

I am just glad I wasn't about to set off around the big paddock.


Have they given you something to drive around in while you wait? I know that I'd be stuffed without my car. We don't have a spare sitting around at home!

[Chappo]

Sure have. I have had the Service Manager's Evoque since last week. I am driving to Central Qld. on Thursday and they don't want me to put 4K on the clock, as it is a Demo, so they have arranged a rental Evoque from a group that they use for this type of occurrence. I pick that up tomorrow. No cost to me so they are doing all of the right things.
Chappo

[Chappo]

Thanks Ron, That is amazing that they have to do the removal but, there ya go.

I spoke more with the SM today and the guy doing the swap has worked for LRA for 25 years and when the SM suggested that they get my car in and start dismantling he said 'NO, We will wait till we have the new motor ready to go, lift the D4 on the hoist, remove and support the body and then lower the hoist, do the swap and when we raise the hoist, everything is still where it should be and all will realign perfectly'. Apparently he has done this task with Disco's and RR several times so he is running the change-out.
They are also leaning toward the JLA replacement engine so there will be no issues with retaining the full extended warranty as it is a genuine replacement part, albeit a bloody big one. Final decision will be with the insurer. Hopefully an answer today.
Chappo

[Chappo]

Here are before and after shots.
I will post the offending damage when they drop the motor.

[p38arover]

NO, We will wait till we have the new motor ready to go, lift the D4 on the hoist, remove and support the body and then lower the hoist, do the swap and when we raise the hoist, everything is still where it should be and all will realign perfectly'

Exactly!

We did the opposite. We lifted the body and left the rolling chassis on the ground. We had to roll it forward to lift the engine out but when we rolled it back it was easy to align it.

[Bytemrk]

Good to hear you appear to be getting a good outcome Chappo. :)

[Chappo]

Not much news as yet. The Assessor is arriving tomorrow to assess their proposed options.
The option that I, and the dealership, are pushing is for the JLA replacement engine.
The issue is apparently to convince Alliance, the underwriter of both the JLA Extended Warranty and their Factory Warranty to honour my JLA Extended Warranty as opposed to giving me an aftermarket warranty which is apparently capped at $1,000 per claim. Alliance also underwrite this.

I hope I don't have to get nasty. :mad:

If all goes well tomorrow, I may be back on the road by the end of next week.

[cuppabillytea]

Allianz might take their time. Your warranty should be honoured and let JLRA worry about the insurance. Good luck Chappo.
Cheers, Billy.

[SBD4]

I would say that, regardless of the warranty outcome, the dealer is up for the full replacement cost of the engine as it seems they were the cause of the issue. If they can get Allianz to come to the party then good luck to them. Otherwise they just have to suck it up.

I would have thought that this should've been done under their business insurance.

Good luck!

[TerryO]

I would say that, regardless of the warranty outcome, the dealer is up for the full replacement cost of the engine as it seems they were the cause of the issue. If they can get Allianz to come to the party then good luck to them. Otherwise they just have to suck it up.

I would have thought that this should've been done under their business insurance.

Good luck!


I agree, it's the workshops problem not yours, they stuffed it they make good.

[PeterOZ]

more patient than I would be. They broke it they fix it, no delays.


You have been without the quiet enjoyment of your vehcile due to their negligence.


I'd get a solicitor to send them a letter of demand.


Let them sort out their insurers on their own time.

[Melbourne Park]

You could also call customer relations at Land Rover Australia, and ask them for their advice. It is their warranty, but they also have a relationship with their dealer service organisations.

I am not sure whether it is all the services fault either ... if some oil from the turbo has done this, then perhaps its not all the dealership's service department's fault.

A letter to the dealership stating everything that has happened might also be a good idea. And it locks in your view of what happened.

[Chappo]

Things are finally happening. The issues regarding the extended warranty have been resolved and the replacement motor has been ordered.

It should be on the garage floor by Wednesday, fitted on Thursday and Friday so they can begin road testing etc. Hopefully I will have MY car back early the following week.

It has taken some time but hopefully it will all come out fine in the wash. The Dealer has provided me with a vehicle the whole time and despite it being a bit of an inconvenience, it has not caused any great problems.

[winaje]

Things are finally happening. The issues regarding the extended warranty have been resolved and the replacement motor has been ordered.

Did they order the "good" motor?

[Chappo]

They have decided on the motor with 34K on it which I don't have a problem with.

As they said earlier, there are good and bad points regarding both a used and a refurbished motor.

They are replacing all of the parts that are difficult to access, whether they are due for replacement or not, while they are doing the switch so this will save additional expense in the future.

The Service Manager is still saying that he will not release the car back to me until he is confident that it is in as good as or better condition than when I booked it in for the service.

I guess only time will tell.

[Chappo]

Well, the saga is nearly over. I should have my car back tomorrow or Tuesday. :banana:

The new, 34K 2nd hand replacement, motor has been fitted and road tested last week and all seems OK. They asked if they could keep it for the weekend to ensure all was OK so, what the heck, they have had it for 6 weeks so why not.

They have also ensured that all recalls for the motor have been addressed and will also be steam cleaning all underbody guards etc to ensure no oily smells etc..

I have attached a couple of pics of the "new ventilation port" that was caused by the motor blowing. The first shows the location in relation to the turbo and the 2nd is a close up where the internals can be seen.

I will ask tomorrow 'what was the final cost' but they indicated last week that it had exceeded 30K already and they hadn't finished.

Thanks to you all for the support and advice. I will keep you all posted.

Chappo.

[LRD414]

Excellent news. Has there been any explanation of how it happened? Like what mistake was made to get the overrun.

Scott

[DazzaTD5]

IMHO....
What a complete and total balls up....

Just a few things to note...
34K for a used D4 engine is rubbish, they have gone this route as it was cheaper than a new/refurbed factory crate engine.
*Just like with a D3 engine, the difference between a new factory crate engine and a refurbed factory crate engine is they re-use the bare cast iron block, everything else is brand new, part number is different (which is the only way I can tell).
*The only "fores and against" a used engine over a factory new/refurb is a used engine is cheaper.
*As with a D3, RRS, removing the body off a shiny new D4 is a piece of cake and is well easier than doing older D3's, 4 hrs and the body is off.
*In your pic http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d4-rrs/101631d1446938298-what-have-they-done-img_1079.jpg job looks untidy and if they had of removed the washer bottle they could have left the front apron on.
*oh they pressure cleaned all the oil and grease off so it didnt smell, well lardy-dar, you mean they did something right in amongst all this incompetence???

And people trust their vehicles to dealers why???

Thankfully in this instance the owner has come out all ok and hopefully hasnt been turned off the Land Rover brand.

For the ones that don't know and so its clear of my biased/unbiased opinion I am an independent Land Rover repairer.

Regards
Daz

[LandyAndy]

IMHO....
What a complete and total balls up....

Just a few things to note...
34K for a used D4 engine is rubbish, they have gone this route as it was cheaper than a new/refurbed factory crate engine.
*Just like with a D3 engine, the difference between a new factory crate engine and a refurbed factory crate engine is they re-use the bare cast iron block, everything else is brand new, part number is different (which is the only way I can tell).
*The only "fores and against" a used engine over a factory new/refurb is a used engine is cheaper.
*As with a D3, RRS, removing the body off a shiny new D4 is a piece of cake and is well easier than doing older D3's, 4 hrs and the body is off.
*In your pic http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d4-rrs/101631d1446938298-what-have-they-done-img_1079.jpg job looks untidy and if they had of removed the washer bottle they could have left the front apron on.
*oh they pressure cleaned all the oil and grease off so it didnt smell, well lardy-dar, you mean they did something right in amongst all this incompetence???

And people trust their vehicles to dealers why???

Thankfully in this instance the owner has come out all ok and hopefully hasnt been turned off the Land Rover brand.

For the ones that don't know and so its clear of my biased/unbiased opinion I am an independent Land Rover repairer.

Regards
Daz

I think you will find the 34K relates to the k's the second hand motor has done.
Andrew

[Chappo]

I think you will find the 34K relates to the k's the second hand motor has done.
Andrew

Correct Andrew, the engine they have installed has done 34,000 klms, it was not the cost.

They have said from the out-set that the cause of the over-run was from being overfilled with oil.

Their estimate from just after it happened was that it would cost between $30K and $40K and when I asked last Tuesday what sort of money had it cost to date, they said over $30K.

[l00kin4]

They have said from the out-set that the cause of the over-run was from being overfilled with oil.





Chappo - glad to hear you're almost sorted. Amazing to think such a basic stuff up can cause such a catastrophe.


Sorry for the hijack here but a couple of dumb questions here from an intrigued novice (had a look around other threads but couldn't quite find the answers).

I understand the routine to check the engine oil level via service menu and have recently topped up in a few small steps. Confident I haven't overfilled it but it does show as full.

My questions are:

- how much would oil have to be overfilled to cause problems?
- can overfill warning be completely relied upon?
- if there are problems (saw blknight post this frightening list in another thread:
* spin bearings
* froth the oil and starve the engine
* get enough blow by to make the engine run on kill the rings
* blow the seals) would they be evident immediately or develop over time?

Thanks,
David

[Chappo]

Chappo - glad to hear you're almost sorted. Amazing to think such a basic stuff up can cause such a catastrophe.

My questions are:

- how much would oil have to be overfilled to cause problems?
- can overfill warning be completely relied upon?
- if there are problems (saw blknight post this frightening list in another thread:
* spin bearings
* froth the oil and starve the engine
* get enough blow by to make the engine run on kill the rings
* blow the seals) would they be evident immediately or develop over time?

Thanks,
David

No problems with the 'Hi-jack' Dave. Perhaps DazzaTD5 may be better placed to answer those questions.

Some of my friends have suggested that maybe they hadn't drained the oil before re-filling??? The dealer did say that the bulk oil had run-out and they had to change the drum, so this may have impacted but to be honest, I don't know just how much was 'too much'.

They also mentioned that they always try to convince 'the old guys', mainly farmers etc., to always bring the vehicles in for service and not to top them up with oil like they always have with the old petrol Landy's as the consequences can, as I have found out, be quite dramatic.

I am fairly convinced that I will always let those that know what they are doing handle the servicing. Maybe not always a Dealership, as they certainly know how to charge and there are plenty of other Landrover Specialists around who are considerably more competitive with their pricing. Dealerships are certainly the go though for warranty work and the fact that I had a loan car whilst the service was happening and during the replacement was certainly beneficial.

Chappo

[simmo]

Note to self; you cant afford a D4 ever !!!!!!,

30 plus K for another engine fitted:eek:

[Chappo]

Note to self; you cant afford a D4 ever !!!!!!,

30 plus K for another engine fitted:eek:

Cost is no issue, as long as someone else is paying!!!!!!

Chappo

:Rolling:

[rar110]

I'm glad my tdv8 RR has a dipstick.

[jonesy63]

Chappo's D4 has a dipstick as well - the guy filling the oil until he could see it! :wasntme::D

[Chappo]

Chappo's D4 has a dipstick as well - the guy filling the oil until he could see it! :wasntme::D

Well spoken.:D

[DazzaTD5]

I think you will find the 34K relates to the k's the second hand motor has done.
Andrew

haha yes I saw that after I got off my soapbox :P

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

I understand the routine to check the engine oil level via service menu and have recently topped up in a few small steps. Confident I haven't overfilled it but it does show as full.

My questions are:

- how much would oil have to be overfilled to cause problems?
- can overfill warning be completely relied upon?
- if there are problems (saw blknight post this frightening list in another thread:
* spin bearings
* froth the oil and starve the engine
* get enough blow by to make the engine run on kill the rings
* blow the seals) would they be evident immediately or develop over time?

Thanks,
David

On a D4 (later 3.0 twin turbo) the secondary turbo bearing oil drain pipe goes to the sump, which in certain situations off road and over filling the engine, the drain into the sump is lower than the oil level and doesnt drain causing strain on the turbo bearing oil seal. If left for long enough the seal fails and will push oil into the intake. A diesel engine will quite happily run on most hydrocarbons..... such as engine oil. There is a mod kit that puts the oil drain pipe for the secondary turbo back into the side of the block higher up on the engine. (maybe the very latest D4 (the one with black tail light surrounds and no "4" on the back) has this done already from factory).

I have had a D4 in where it had pushed about 4 litres passed a failed turbo seal into the intercooler and as it was being unloaded off a truck it just started to do an increase in revs, until i jumped over and turned it off. the seal had been leaking and they had over filled it.

So in regards to the OP's issue, maybe the seal had been leaking a bit already, didnt have the mod done, they over filled it and it popped the seal on start up... I dont really know as I wasnt there.

The oil level can actually be checked on a cold engine that hasnt been started via the service menu, I've always found it accurate, when compared to the amount of oil I have added and also when comparing oil levels using a diagnostic tool.

Regards
Daz

[Graeme]

On a D4 (later 3.0 twin turbo) the secondary turbo bearing oil drain pipe goes to the sump, which in certain situations off road and over filling the engine, the drain into the sump is lower than the oil level and doesnt drain causing strain on the turbo bearing oil seal. If left for long enough the seal fails and will push oil into the intake. A diesel engine will quite happily run on most hydrocarbons..... such as engine oil. There is a mod kit that puts the oil drain pipe for the secondary turbo back into the side of the block higher up on the engine. (maybe the very latest D4 (the one with black tail light surrounds and no "4" on the back) has this done already from factory).

Not quite - the original drain goes to a small reservoir at the bottom of the sump to be reclaimed by a scavenger pump. The drain design was changed to feed directly to the sump because the scavenger pump is not 100% effective in all conditions and allows oil to accumulate in the turbo drain pipe which eventually backs-up and escapes past the still-good turbo seals into the inlet tract. The seals were never designed to prevent oil under pressure from escaping, under pressure due to a blocked drain and a pressurised feed.

The 4.4 TDV8 up to the same turbo drain design-change time as the 3.0 suffered from the same problem but its drain to the scavenger pump reservoir was replaced by a twin drain - one to the scavenger pump reservoir again and another directly to the sump. Retrofitting that drain is a major task.

[DazzaTD5]

Yes thanks for clarifying, I realise it goes to the scavenger part in the sump, I've had them apart.

Not sure if we are talking about the same thing though with regards to the turbo oil drain pipe mod for the secondary turbo on a D4. Its a blanking plate for the sump, a new drain pipe that bolts from the turbo to the side of the engine block, half way up, takes about an hour and a bit to do. I normally do it the first time a D4 comes into me for service, if it hasnt already been done. I have heard its the same drain pipe and location for the same engine in a Jag.

Regards
Daz

[Graeme]

Yes, that's the same drain conversion. I fitted the kit to my D4 although it took considerably longer, at least partly due to the dirt that kept falling on my face. However for the 4.4 a hole has to be drilled in the side of the sump to take the drain - a semi-formed hole has to be drilled right through. To do that the front sub-frame has to be removed with the diff and suspension detached beforehand. I had it done to my RRV by the selling dealer prior to pick-up, after having asked that it be done but without giving too much info on the job by only handing over the 1st page of the TSB that only described the problem, not the details of the cure.