Goss electric pump for 186 not working

[pk.hoarder]

Gday
I put a Goss low pressure fuel pump in my IIA to replace the faulty mech pump on the side of the 186. (It had been hard to start, not holding fuel, but ok once running). The new one is on top of the chassis near the engine mount.
Install instructions say put it no higher than 30cm above the bottom of the tank, make the outlet higher than the inlet and use a filter on the input side. I think I have done all that.
The pump ran OK, fairly loud, and partly filled the fuel bowl (I had the carby cover off to check it was getting fuel). Then the noise got quieter and the fuel flow stopped. I pushed the carby float down expecting more fuel to come in but got nothing.
I connected the fuel line into a jar held next to the pump in case it didn't have enough lift but still no flow.

Does anyone know anything about these pumps? From what I have read they seem to be reliable and if mine's not working it was probably the gumby with the spanner...

Thanks
Paul

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[crackers]

Haven't got a blockage in the system have you?

[pk.hoarder]

Thanks Crackers, I tried putting an intake line from a fuel can on the ground (way too low) and the pump self primed and gave good flow all the way up to the carby. I reconnected to the IIA's fuel tank, thinking everything was well primed now and might work. It fired up straight away and idled for several minutes but stalled again with no fuel at carby.

So looks like a blockage on the tank side or in the tank.

I took the fuel pickup out of the tank. It looks like a piece of steel fuel line with a fine mesh cover over the end.

Turns out my one has been bashed against the bottom of the tank sometime (Betsy has had an interesting life, the stories just keep coming!) and the pipe had cut through the mesh. There could be something floating around the bottom of the tank that gets sucked over the pickup pipe and covers the hole, will take the sender out to have a look.

Any ideas how to get muck out of old fuel tanks?


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[crackers]

Any ideas how to get muck out of old fuel tanks?

There's a drain plug on the bottom... of my Series 1. You might have one and it might come out (careful of tearing the metal, drain plugs in fuel tanks give me the willies).

You're in the Adelaide Hills too, I could come and help you break it if you like :twisted:

[crackers]

I probably shouldn't say this but... :twisted:
Wouldn't it be funny if the problem with the mechanical pump turns out to be THIS issue, not the pump :angel:

You may now call me a barsteward :D

[pk.hoarder]

Haha, that crossed my mind too... Old one's still in place if it comes to that.

I have a drain plug too but that's a last resort for the reasons you mentioned. I have siphoned/pumped yuk out of the bottom of things before, will give that a go when I get back to it...

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[Scouse]

Most, if not all, aftermarket electric pumps are 'pushers', not 'pullers' so you might need to mount it back near the fuel tank for it to work properly.

[mick88]

A while back I had to clean the tank out on my series 3. It is a home fabricated aluminum tank made by the previous owner and does not have a drain plug. I just removed the plate the fuel gauge is mounted to then used a large bore (3/4") clear plastic tube to syphon the fuel out, running the tube around the bottom of the tank like a vacuum and emptied the contents into a bucket. Then I just poured the fuel via a fine strainer back into the tank and repeated the syphoning again. I did this about half a dozen times and got all the crud out. It's best to have about ten liters of fuel in the tank when doing this.
Sounds like you may have purchased a new pump unnecessarily.


Good luck.
Cheers, Mick.

[pk.hoarder]

OK almost all siphoned out, got some of the gunk away. Used too small a tube so took a long time lucky there were no big bits to get out. Also straightened the bent pickup, this may have been part of the problem, would have had almost no clearance to the bottom of the tank next to the drain plug - it should sit straight over the drain plug.

I have some wire mesh to put over the pickup, wider grid than the original. Not sure how to hold it onto the pickup...I was thinking to cable tie it in place (original was soldered). Would plastic cable ties be ok in petrol? Hole in top of tank is really too small to fit a hose clamp through.

I think the 'leccy pump will be good once it's going as the old one always had hard starting if the car hadn't been run in the last hour or so.

Thanks

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[Lionelgee]

Hello Paul,

I think Scouse referred to pumps being pushers not pullers the location of the fuel pump being close to the fuel tank.

I am fitting a cylindrical Facet electronic fuel pump similar to what was originally fitted to the Land Rover Bendix - supplied 2.6 six cylinder's fuel pump. I am using this pump to replace the mechanical fuel pump fitted to the side of a HQ 202 Holden motor in a long wheel base Series 3. I am removing and blanking off the old mechanical pump - mostly because it is buggered.

The fitting instructions for the new pump state, " fitted within 610 vertical millimetres from the fuel tank bottom. The Technical specifications for a similar pump used with the HQ racing vehicle specifications states that "must be a 12 volt push solid state electronic fuel pump that should be fitted within 50 centimetres of the existing fuel tank outlet". Accessed 13th October from, http://www.hqracingnsw.com/documents then copy in /2013_HQ_Tech_Manual.PDF. I had to break the link up in two pieces otherwise it automatically downloaded the whole document. Have a look on page 8 of the document under the title "Fuel System". I figured the best place to get unbiased non-commercial data for my engine was from the HQ Racing Association Australia Incorporated 2013; and it is the same source that the scrutinisers use for each car. On page 9 it states that, "the existing fuel pump mount on the block must be blanked off using an after market fuel pump blanking plate." There are blanking plates are on eBay for $19 + about $5 for a new gasket + two bolts if you want nice shiny ones. Just be careful to get a blanking plate for a 6 cylinder red motor as there are plates for sale for V8 engines as well and they are not compatible with the six cylinder motor.


I just had a look at the non-cylindrical fuel pump (Solid state?) and the retailer says the following, "For best results, mount the pump close to the fluid or fuel tank and below the liquid level." I have no association with the product or the retailer Accessed 13th October from, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FACET-12-VOLT-ELECTRIC-FUEL-PUMP-9-6-psi-FITTINGS-FILTER-12Mth-WARRANTY-WVO-/301749227814?hash=item4641a7d126


If you are using a electric pump you might have done the pump equivalent of putting the cart before the horse. :angel:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[pk.hoarder]

Gday Lionel
Thanks for your detailed post and the HQ links. The Goss pump I have looks almost identical to the Facet one you posted, same external filter casing as well. I think the suction and lift is ok as it will bring fuel up from a mower can on the ground. When I read your post it made me wonder if the tank vent could be blocked? I think it's just a vented cap on those - but I didn't check it yet. I don't have a history of checking easy things before hard things...
Will chase up a blanking plate for when it's sorted though.
Cheers
Paul

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[pk.hoarder]

Sorry for the slow update. The Goss pump is in and working. Starting, even after sitting for several days, is much easier now.

Things that I think contributed to the solution:
1. Siphoning the yuk out of the bottom of the tank
2. Straightening the pickup tube - previous damage to the tank had resulted in a slight bend in the tube and the end of the tube punching through the mesh filter. The gap between the end of the tube and the bottom of the tank might have been pretty small.

Suction on the new pump may have been good enough to lift up some of the larger pieces of junk in the tank to completely block the intake. The old red motor mech pump may not have sucked hard enough to lift the rubbish up? Not sure but either way it's working now.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Cheers
Paul

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[Lionelgee]

Sorry for the slow update. The Goss pump is in and working. Starting, even after sitting for several days, is much easier now.

Things that I think contributed to the solution:
1. Siphoning the yuk out of the bottom of the tank
2. Straightening the pickup tube - previous damage to the tank had resulted in a slight bend in the tube and the end of the tube punching through the mesh filter. The gap between the end of the tube and the bottom of the tank might have been pretty small.

Suction on the new pump may have been good enough to lift up some of the larger pieces of junk in the tank to completely block the intake. The old red motor mech pump may not have sucked hard enough to lift the rubbish up? Not sure but either way it's working now.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Cheers
Paul

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Hello Paul,

What PSI is your electric fuel pump rated at?

I took an extra step with my fuel system when I put in the new facet pump. Firstly, I replicated the position the Australian Army used in their Series III Land Rovers. The new pump is mounted on the back of the cross member that holds the rear end of the fuel tank.

In between the fuel tank and the new electric fuel pump I installed a Ryco inline fuel filter. I decided to do this after observing how much crap came out of the old Holden 202 mechanical fuel pump. I know the fuel pump has its own filter. However, I do not know the last time the fuel tank was flushed out and cleaned. If it has ever been cleaned out at all since it was made in 1975.

I hope all goes well with the fuel system.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Aaron IIA]

Hello Paul,

What PSI is your electric fuel pump rated at?

This is very important. Fuel pumps come in a range of pressures, just as differrent carburettors need different pressures.

Aaron

[pk.hoarder]

The pump I used was recommended for carby engines up to small V8s, and the parts store said it was commonly used for red six pump replacements. I think it is this one http://www.goss.com.au/products/GE242 pressure 3-4.5psi. I think it was the lowest pressure one the store had.

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