Suspension ideas required

[cewilson]

Guys, my 93 Defender has just about come time for new corners. Actually after the Innamincka/Simpson/Finke run, I'd say they are screwed. What recommendations can you make for the following needs:


Better articulation - but don't really want to go over 2", as that means extending brake lines etc.
Better ride - more comfortable
Handle severe corregations without fading and/or over-heating
Used primarily for Outback Touring, but does cop some short hard rough trips near home (Katherine)
Has to handle load, the Defender can pack up to and including 1 tonne of gear into it, I expect the suspension to handle that, plus a trailer if needed.

Cheers
Chris

[Frenchie]

Hi Chris,

I asked more or less the same question a few days ago: :wink:

http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Foru...iewtopic&t=6167 (http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6167)

[cewilson]

Yep, had a look. I used to go by the exact same thinking. And I've always stuck with the standard gear! Only problem is that the Finke track killed it all - and quite easily.

To give you some idea, the corregations up there are probably the worst that I have ever seen. It has done more damage to the truck than just the suspension - the door hinges, especially the rears need fixing, the rear door slide is bent and stuffed amongst over issues.

Hence why I am asking about alternatives. And I'd love to get more articulation than standard. I run full loads and tow trailers quite often, there is a bullbar fitted etc. This new stuff has to handle the loads, the highway speed runs (130km/h+), the corregations and I want more articulation.

I think I may be asking too much, but I'm sure that someone has done it. All I want lift wise is 2", but 2" is better than none at all!

Cheers
Chris


Frenchie - thanks for the link though. I've been away playing and slowly catching up!

[HSVRangie]

Bilstien only shock I have had that survives corrigations no fade.

springs match to std spec or slighly heavier.

Nissan springs fit defenders, this gives some more options.

Michael.

[Ace]

I am looking to do the same thing on my disco and everyone told me LRA (rangie spares) coils and bilstein shocks. Matt

[HSVRangie]

Spring info;

http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html

LRA have the best selection of springs around call and talk to Andrew, excellent guide to what will suit your neds.
http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/4.html

Business Name:
Les Richmond Automotive P/L

Address:

41 Wood Street
Thomastown, 3074
Australia

Email:
sales@lrautomotive.com.au

Phone 03 9464 4094
Fax 3 9464 4095


Michael.

[cewilson]

Originally posted by HSVRangie
Bilstien only shock I have had that survives corrigations no fade.

springs match to std spec or slighly heavier.

Nissan springs fit defenders, this gives some more options.

Michael.


I was going to do this with King Springs. Only difference was that I was going to fit some protectors to the Bilsteins, as they are only a single tube design - a tad more susceptible to damage - and if they do you are stuffed!

[rick130]

a standard Koni will fade if the Finke road is as bad as I've heard recently. They will come back if you let them cool, but this is where a Bistein really has it over them.
The dirt roads around here are pretty good and I don't generate much heat in the Konis at all, (less than 10* temp rise above ambient on a very, very fast 30km run) but they are like a freeway compared to the road down to Chambers Pillar is like ATM from what I've heard.

Koni do an adjustable outback challenge/off road race shock that bolts up using the standard vehicle mounting called the "Raid" that won't fade, and is a twin tube shock with a heavy outer body, but it probably isn't cost effective, retailing around $400.00 each.

Also, standard Bilsteins may have to be re-valved for the rear of a 110, and definately for the rear of a 130, as their spring rate is much higher than a Rangie or Disco, for which they are actually valved for. This can add a fair bit to their price.

Can also vouch for the Rangie Spares/Les richmond springs, if only for Andrews advice.

[modman]

maybe a ralph tough dog shock might be useful here
they certainly have a larger body to dissipate heat and the adjustability would help somewhat with varying loads and surfaces.
i've heard great things about them from mates with pootrols, but nothing from the rover contingent??
any comments??
david

[rick130]

there's a few reports of Tough Dogs leaking on the Patrol forum on OL (in the last few days), as well as the positive ones.

[cewilson]

I've been told that the adjustable Ranchos are worth a look, and apparently work quite good on the Defenders???

[rick130]

Aaaaaaaaaaah don't use a Rancho !!!

The eye isn't large enough on the rear dampers, they don't use enough weld on the eyes (they tend to break, especially on Defenders), and aren't a patch on a Koni or Bilstein for build quality, oh, and they will probably fade quicker than a standard twin tube 'Heavy Track' Koni.
Rancho, and the Oz importer, are masters at advertising. Their 'gas cell technology' is some closed cell foam jammed into the outer tube. This is not the same as a mono tube Bilstein or Koni or twin tube OME LTR which use high pressure nitrogen seperated from the oil by a floating piston.
They are externally adjustable, which is nice to have, but the adjustment knob influences both bump and rebound, (not ideal. Koni's adjustment is rebound only, and works well ) and they aren't re-buildable or internally adjustable like a Bilstein, twin tube Koni or OME LTR.
I suppose they're OK, but there is better out there for the same or a little more money.

Do you get the idea I'm not a fan :wink:

[cewilson]

I thought that the in-cab adjustable 9000's where meant to be alright???

[Redback]

Hi Chris, we were ment to meet at Birdsville to join you and the OL guys to cross the Simpson but rain stopped that as you know, anyway my Disco has OME springs and Bilsteins shocks and i must say the Simpsons bumps and Cordillo Downs road with the Oodnadatta track killed the Bilsteins, now the Disco just bounces along, it's a real pain, i thoughly recomend Bilsteins (NOT :twisted: )

Baz.

[rick130]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>.....and i must say the Simpsons bumps and Cordillo Downs road with the Oodnadatta track killed the Bilsteins[/b][/quote]

interesting Baz. Are they leaking past the seals, or have they just lost damping ?

How many km ?

Get in touch with either Heasmans/Sydney Shocks, or Quadrant in Melbourne, who are the two importers. I'm sure they'd be interested to talk to you.

[Slunnie]

Yep, unless they are damaged, which is a risk with monotube shocks (requireing lots of stone guards) Sydney shocks / Heasmans will sort them.

[fuzzzy79]

I'm running King Springs with Bilstein shocks in my Disco and they are great for general touring. They give a minor lift too, but only about an inch or so.

[disconut]

Hi Guys,
I have run Tough Dogs for the last seven years. 3 disco's, and of course the mighty fender.
Only good news! No failures. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Trev.

[cewilson]

Just to keep it into perspective, I think that the roads around there after the rains etc are the worst I have ever driven ever in terms of corregations. The shockies are not all that are damaged after that trip, I wish they where!

[Tusker]

G'day Chris

I'm running off the shelp Kings springs for an Isuzu County, that gives it a lift of 3" in my case.

Go Bilsteins. I put about 200,000 kms on them with the last car, including that Finke Road. Never a problem.

And if you'rew lifting it, think about some way of contrlling the roll oversteer you'll get with a full load. if you don't need big articulation, chuck an anti-roll bar under the front.

Regards
Max P

[Gidget]

G'day, as for what springs & shocks to use, I have dobinson's (1" lift)in the fender & they have been good, given a very hard life but I would have liked to have got more from them, but thats how the cookie crumbles. People will give a diffrent opinion every time it's a tuff subject to get a clear view of. As for the disco2 I have ordered some custom lovell springs (4" lift)& are at the moment trying decide weather I am going to go tough dog, rancho or bilstein's.

As for more articulation with the fender only getting a small lift on purpose (to keep C.O.G. down) I had a mate design a dislocting rear end for the fender (a simular deseign as the scorpion racing idea), & let me tell you what a diffrence it has made, the articulation is unreal as appossed to standard & is allot better than just the 1" lift, allso in doing this he deseigned a bracket to change the derection of the top eye on the rear monts to the chasis by 90 degress, which in turn stopped me bending shocks & getting less fadding from them on the corro's. I have allso had to fit sway bar disconnects as on full articulation it flips the sway bar up & it is a pain to get back again ( I have allso made limiting straps to stop this but I never put them in, cause if you got it you use it,,,,LOL. The rear control arms are bent then laminated & then braced as well.

I am going to probably go up to 2" lift with the next lot of springs & shocks (not sure what yet) & the dislocating set up handles it fine, as I have seen another fender done the same as mine now with a 2" lift & it goes well.

If you want any more info email me or there is a heap of pics of the defender in the gallery under my user name (Gidget)

[cewilson]

Originally posted by Tusker
G'day Chris

I'm running off the shelp Kings springs for an Isuzu County, that gives it a lift of 3" in my case.

Go Bilsteins. I put about 200,000 kms on them with the last car, including that Finke Road. Never a problem.

And if you'rew lifting it, think about some way of contrlling the roll oversteer you'll get with a full load. if you don't need big articulation, chuck an anti-roll bar under the front.

Regards
Max P


Max, did you need to extend the brake lines etc by going to that height??? I am trying to avoid that! Hence why I was only looking at 2". and I was also thinking that by keeping it to 2" it shouldn't affect handling too bad???

Cheers
Chris

P.S - BTW how is your truck going at the moment. Them maxi-drive gears that I put in mine after seeing your truck work a treat. GREAT difference style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Slunnie]

Originally posted by cewilson
P.S - BTW how is your truck going at the moment.
Picture Max on 35's! 8O :twisted:

[cewilson]

Originally posted by Slunnie+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slunnie)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-cewilson
P.S - BTW how is your truck going at the moment.
Picture Max on 35's! 8O :twisted:[/b][/quote]


Nice! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[RoverOne]

Originally posted by Tusker
G'day Chris

Go Bilsteins. I put about 200,000 kms on them with the last car, including that Finke Road. Never a problem.

Regards
Max P

G'Day Chris,

Likewise with my Defender, Bilsteins came off my '76 Rangie went to C.York, Tanami, Finke, dz trip to High Country, now on 110, been to C.York, The Gulf, Camooweal to B'Ville the hard way, Tassie, dzs of High Country, WA, Flinders, Simpson, still going strong no deflector of any kind, 110 now done 180,000km. Still there are those that have had bad experiences but they are in a minority.

Cheers
Bryce

[cewilson]

Originally posted by RoverOne+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RoverOne)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Tusker
G'day Chris

Go Bilsteins. I put about 200,000 kms on them with the last car, including that Finke Road. Never a problem.

Regards
Max P

G'Day Chris,

Likewise with my Defender, Bilsteins came off my '76 Rangie went to C.York, Tanami, Finke, dz trip to High Country, now on 110, been to C.York, The Gulf, Camooweal to B'Ville the hard way, Tassie, dzs of High Country, WA, Flinders, Simpson, still going strong no deflector of any kind, 110 now done 180,000km. Still there are those that have had bad experiences but they are in a minority.

Cheers
Bryce[/b][/quote]


What springs do you use? And are the shockies standard height, 2" or higher??? Sorry to grille you, I am just very interested in this, as it needs doing, but I only wish to do it once!

Cheers
Chris

[RoverOne]

Originally posted by cewilson+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cewilson)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by RoverOne@
<!--QuoteBegin-Tusker
G'day Chris

Go Bilsteins. I put about 200,000 kms on them with the last car, including that Finke Road. Never a problem.

Regards
Max P

G'Day Chris,

Likewise with my Defender, Bilsteins came off my '76 Rangie went to C.York, Tanami, Finke, dz trip to High Country, now on 110, been to C.York, The Gulf, Camooweal to B'Ville the hard way, Tassie, dzs of High Country, WA, Flinders, Simpson, still going strong no deflector of any kind, 110 now done 180,000km. Still there are those that have had bad experiences but they are in a minority.

Cheers
Bryce


What springs do you use? And are the shockies standard height, 2" or higher??? Sorry to grille you, I am just very interested in this, as it needs doing, but I only wish to do it once!

Cheers
Chris[/b][/quote]

I had springs made for me at Allsprings in Moorebank, 320lb-2" lift (17"), I think 10mm wire, so far so good now about 5 years on.

I have just posted in NSW Recommended Suppliers details of these guys.

All you have to tell them is total weight, of what you normally carry on the average trip, like the weights of water, extra fuel and long range tank weight less standard tank weight, draw system, rear wheel carrier if fitted etc, same with front- Bar, winch, lights, then they work out what weight springs you need. Only big problem with heavy weight rear coils is if you take all the gear out, rides a bit bouncy on the tar, so I leave it all in never comes out, beauty of having two cars this is the tourer.