Land Rover Register of South Australia

[crackers]

Anyone here a member?
I'm not... yet and pondering joining. Time's been keeping me away from attending a meeting. It seems horribly orientated towards newer Land Rovers and I'm really just an old British car man.

[AndyS]

I was thinking of joining.
Then again I'm not really a club person.

[Bytemrk]

While I am not a member, there are quiet a few on this site.

Looking from the outside as a guest...seems like a great club and the idea that is mainly focused on new Land Rovers is probably not correct.

A group from here regularly go over at Easter to the SA Registers show. I went this year to Melrose. It was a great chance to meet a lot of people from here and the SA club and share everything land rover from the oldest to the newest.

While you wait for answers from real SA Club members, you might want to look through this thread...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/741.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/742.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/sa-reports/217957-live-melrose-2015-a.html

[85 county]

i did not renew my membership this year.

now there is nothing wrong with the club they are actually a good bunch with a good spread of vehicles.

the club was transformed by the change from Blinman to melrose for there annual event.

and there is a good collection of old LR owners and drivers etc. the guy who writes there mag, trips about in a mint S3 and the guy who organises the trips has a 2.8 Brazilian 110

there trips seem to be well organised etc.

so why did i not renew my membership. well im a but younger than most of the members, i can not commit much time to the club. and being a father to a younger son and working. the trips they organise are all a bit long and expensive. so apart from there Easter show there is not much in the club for me.

to put it another way, there Easter thing used to be at blinman on land leased by the club. the format is still basicly the same as today.
but blinman was what 6 hours away. melrose is 3. blinman has dirt roads, melrose is all seal.
the tagalongs at blinman ranged from a nice drive though some hilly paddocks with the odd gorge and creek. to axel snapping winching jobs.

my very first blinman i did 3 tyres. i know of a 300tdi powered rangie that did a set in a weekend

melrose tagalong is a nice drive to a few wineries.

but the club is dominated by the recently or soon to be retired who seem to have done well enough to kit out a LR product. or were lucky enough to come to Australia with enough dosh and not having to work much.

so it comes down to where you are in life and what you want. best advice would be to check it out for yourself

[Bytemrk]

melrose tagalong is a nice drive to a few wineries.


Not all of them.... Certainly not hardcore, but we never visited a winery...

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11102703_414106022095741_2467374572812321170_n.jpg ?oh=8f5513037166e15fbfc68f66dd211b87&oe=5687BD7B

85 County is right though.... best way to decide if any club fits you is check it out yourself..

[Mick_Marsh]

melrose tagalong is a nice drive to a few wineries.
Here we are on a tag-a-long.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/sa-reports/59231d1366112056-live-melrose-comments-please-dsc_2163.jpghttp://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/sa-reports/59234d1366112151-live-melrose-comments-please-dsc_2178.jpg

Didn't pass any wineries on that one.


Bit of a climb, this one.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/sa-reports/59240d1366112652-live-melrose-comments-please-dsc_2228.jpg

[digger]

There is a massive amount of knowledge in the register "mob"
and they are all about promoting and supporting the brand.

I can only suggest you get along to a meeting to see if the
"glove fits" but I can tell you that the Melrose show is great
I believe, and I think that 85county would agree that as a family
based show its right up there.

The series content is reasonably high in the club but so is the spread
of other landy products. They will not look down on you for doing up a
series and especially not a series 1 :) (everyone loves the series 1)

As I said give it a shot, it cant hurt!

[crackers]

Thanks all.
Strange as it may seem, considering what forum I'm in and what's in my shed, I'm not a 4 wheel drive person as such and not real interesting in going into heavy bush. I just like old British cars and the early Landys are part of that and something I've always wanted.

I'll try to get to a meeting... actually, I'd better join quickly if I want to get to the All British Day next Feb (in my MG but hey, no-one will notice among all those Landys :angel:)

[Bytemrk]

You would be surprised Crackers... plenty around here that have a soft spot for old British cars.... its not all hard core 4x4.

But wait until you get the series one onto a a dirt track..... it's quite addictive ;)

[Mick_Marsh]

Did someone mention Series 1's off road?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/738.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/mick_marsh_AULRO/media/Glenreagh/2015/Saturdays%20Drive/DSC_5449.jpg.html)

They go really well.

[digger]

You would be surprised Crackers... plenty around here that have a soft spot for old British cars.... its not all hard core 4x4.

But wait until you get the series one onto a a dirt track..... it's quite addictive ;)

Depending on what your towing it with :twisted::twisted:

(sorry couldn't resist)

[85 county]

digger nailed it

and yes Melrose is a good family event. but i do not ever recall digger being at blinman.

melrose with the option of powered sites, toilets and showers etc and one tagalong ( photos above) being quite a distance away on the seal.


but the enduring images of Blinman was the volume of used series. i remember a S3 cooking breakfast Bacon and eggs on the tail gate. the series convoy. IE series vehicles driving up and the choice of tagalongs.


my point is that you could go to blinman year after year and not be bored with the activity's. unlike melrose which is great event ( i didn't bother going this year) has for me become boring, its well orgainised but just the same. the only difference is the trial track being changed because the local council got upset about using the old rail way.

if you haven't been to melrose GO its great. but not for the 4th time. even after 5 blinmans i was dribbling in anticipation of the next one.

i believe the club reinvented its self from the old-school hard-school click to something much more tamer. with the new to Australia Australians running the club, they have brought a level of professionalism and organisation which is quite simply bloody brilliant.

but some thing got lossed along the way

if blinman was a county, then Melrose is a puma. computers and plastic with not a dirty fingernail in sight

[mark_coffey]

I have mainly older vehicles an being country based have found the changes within the club not to my liking. I did enjoy Blinman greatly with my series vehicles as half the enjoyment was getting there, especially before the bitumen got there!
Since the change to Melrose, I have found there is very little to keep me in the club, and have been very disappointed with some of the attitude and lack of alternative to the 110kph club.
this last year the final straw was the combining of almost every previous class of series vehicle in an effort to save money, a $2 ribbon has as much pride in the display as a $500 trophy, an no this isn't sour grapes.
I do enjoy meeting up with the like minded from around the country and will probably go again, but I wont bother putting in the effort to take half my fleet, just camp in the corner an enjoy the polishing from a distance!

[85 county]

this last year the final straw was the combining of almost every previous class of series vehicle in an effort to save money, a $2 ribbon has as much pride in the display as a $500 trophy, an no this isn't sour grapes.!

ok i can totally relate to that, the county's well there are not so many there now, we were rather protective of our count status and resisted being combined with the defenders, i didn't really mind being combined with the S3 stage 1s but when the ribbon was printed "Winner - County, stage 1, v8" it sort of shows the actually lack of knowledge with in the club management of what vehicles are in the club.

or driving up to the morning line up to be told " defenders over there??? what?? who are you calling a defender!!!!. may seem a minor thing but its MY 110 and its NOT a defender, never will be and i am very happy because of that

i know to many people my 30 year old 85 county is an old pile of junk, But its my pile of junk so to me its magic. i know just about every bolt in the suspension brakes steering, chassis. the wiring i have traced patched replaced and its mine. i know many other people feel the same about there older vehicles. but if your not in the as already mentioned . the 110klph club you are excluded.

the combining of the older classes is like the last straw, its losed its essence

[digger]

Just a thought guys, (and I do understand where you are coming from)
but here is my rant..!! :o (don't get too serious with it folks)

The best way to get things changed is to suggest what you'd like changed and why to the LRRSA people, I've found them pretty accommodating..

Without suggestions for changes etc and maybe even some help setting it up or working it out they have nothing to work with. Remember its a small core of the club working on this meeting each year. If you know a trek, or have an idea of a tour or destination etc.. plan it out, suggest it...you never know it may get up and you could name it what you like (even after yourself!)

There are a few AULRO members who travel to SA and lead some of the tours or treks- and I've loved all those tours.

As for the move from Blinman to Melrose, it was I believe an economic one, the more people who come and the better facilities available the more it can pay for itself. But that is just my belief...


Maybe there could be a 'series show' arranged for BLINMAN each year as well BUT realistically how many will definitely come?
How many will help run it?
Without help its going to be pretty hard to arrange.
--maybe start as a series camping trip weekend and build up?? Im not sure what the answer is -- but I know someone will lose some serious time and sleep arranging it!

Although I desperately wanted to attend BLINMAN until a few years ago my position meant I couldn't have leave at all during Easter as we were on standby for protests etc. I didnt have an easter off since 1993. I have managed the last few as the rules have changed and enjoy it for what it is.

That is (in my opinion) a good fun day with enough to do if you want, (or stuff all if you dont,) and an enjoyable evening either at the dinner or around the (yeah, and sorry about the noise people !) campfire - sitting back with old and new mates having a laugh and throwing another log (book) on the fire. I enjoy the chance to play in the mud at the trials track after all is done, and the short bush track at the top of the showgrounds. I dont mind at all that there are dunnys and showers available!!

Nay (the minister for war and finance) came the first year but isn't landy mad so thought she would prefer quilting at home whilst Will (my slightly landy mad son, wonder where he gets it from??) and I go. Nay says there isn't a lot for people who aren't "landy fanatics" (her term for people who like land rovers :) ) That's probably true but it is a land rover weekend after all.

I enjoy the Melrose show and know there are people about my age (or a bit younger :) ) helping run it. But lets be honest its a weekend where you can discuss the pros and cons of series parking.. (eg on the hill because the starter or genny is gone, or on the flat because the handbrake doesn't work) there isn't many places we can do that without others harping on about their cars!!

Lots of people rock up without a landy (they have one in pieces at home or had or pine for one) but the common thread is its all about products that come from land rover!



I stress this is my opinion and I am not a member or affiliated with LRRSA (although I should state I would be, but I just live too far away to attend meetings and have too much else on when I do have free time!!)

[85 county]

Digger, been down that track.

as i have already posted. the management of the club changed and with that a lot of other things changed as well. many for the better. many of the older or original members have faded away and i believe that there are many new members, but is this not the way for a club?

but then i gues that is part of my point, it is a club and not a business, so should melrose/blinman be treated as a businesses. if so then my understanding is that melrose is a worse business model than Blinman.

and I can completely understand that a club survives on the time and ablitys of those with the time. but with the average age of the members getting older. the strength of personality of a couple of people who are doing what is close to the ideal for them, seem to have forgotten the rest.

Yes after the first melrose membership was up but quite a bit, , but a lot of the new members have not stayed. since the club is now just a melrose only club with a pie floater mid year. meetings are not going to keep members.

events and outings will keep member's, especially those designed for people who are younger than the organising members themselves. get some training days organised again. weekend trips so that those who work and have kids can enjoy as well. get rid of the stopping at every bakery along the way. these places are not cheep not all can afford. etc

i think the Secretary's Review sums it up well, just a couple of years to late. and i see membership is down from its over 200

http://www.lrregsa.org.au/images/Obsession_November_2014_.pdf

[crackers]

Something that scared me off is the requirement to have a 2 way radio for all club runs. I can understand that if going out bush but this seems to suggest that all runs are perilous affairs or high speed affairs or some such thing where you need that sort of contact. I've spent enough time working in the bush (the real bush, ie, WE were surveying the tracks so they could the build roads, the bulldozers followed US) to know I didn't buy Wombat to do that... well, not on a regular basis. It just seems like an odd requirement that you need that sort of thing for ALL club events. I guess that attitude fits in with my distrust of the yahoo element I've observed in owners of modern 4 wheel drives and yes, I know that's stereotyping and like all stereotypes, unfair to a large part of the subject group. Nor am I particularly interested in being in a group that values money spent ie, the 'mines more rad than yours' element - funny how I've also little time for most cycling groups either due to the 'must the have latest' thrust. Yup, I'm well and truly a retro-grouch and would rather sit around talking about vehicles valued for what they are and what they represented when new than how much money is involved. [/rant] :spudnikconfounded:

[Mick_Marsh]

http://www.lrregsa.org.au/images/Obsession_November_2014_.pdf
Hmmm.......
Looks oddly familiar.

[Mick_Marsh]

Something that scared me off is the requirement to have a 2 way radio for all club runs. I can understand that if going out bush but this seems to suggest that all runs are perilous affairs or high speed affairs or some such thing where you need that sort of contact. I've spent enough time working in the bush (the real bush, ie, WE were surveying the tracks so they could the build roads, the bulldozers followed US) to know I didn't buy Wombat to do that... well, not on a regular basis. It just seems like an odd requirement that you need that sort of thing for ALL club events. I guess that attitude fits in with my distrust of the yahoo element I've observed in owners of modern 4 wheel drives and yes, I know that's stereotyping and like all stereotypes, unfair to a large part of the subject group. Nor am I particularly interested in being in a group that values money spent ie, the 'mines more rad than yours' element - funny how I've also little time for most cycling groups either due to the 'must the have latest' thrust. Yup, I'm well and truly a retro-grouch and would rather sit around talking about vehicles valued for what they are and what they represented when new than how much money is involved. [/rant] :spudnikconfounded:
Get a little hand held.
Rather poor excuse not to join a club. Join it or not. Your choice. It's not as if it's The Hotel California.

[85 county]

Something that scared me off is the requirement to have a 2 way radio for all club runs.. [/rant] :spudnikconfounded:

na your over thinking things.

some one has a flat, how many sugurs do you want in your tea. or hold up i have to take a leek.

i tosed a couple of hand held for the kids at melrose. other kids turned up with there own. one kid was doing the pew pew pew pew pew pew. while the other kids were point aerials at each other and falling down dead

[crackers]

Get a little hand held.
Rather poor excuse not to join a club. Join it or not. Your choice. It's not as if it's The Hotel California.

Is that what I said Mick? I also went on to talk about the possible direction of the club. After all, I own a sports car but don't do circuit sprints, hill climbs or motorkanas. The MGCC not only recognises that there are people like that, but they have social events, relaxed drives and a very active vintage group (for all ages).

[malleefowl]

It Should be mentioned here that LRRSA is a Land rover only club.Not like some others where there are sometimes more Toyotas etc than landys on trips
It is A good Club .As a Mildura native I have yet to attend a club meeting but have been made welcome on the many amazing trips I have attended with this club over many years.

[Homestar]

From my trips over to Melrose and the people I've met, I think they are a good club, with mostly good members (there's always one, and many here will know who it is), but they are inclusive and friendly. Mind you, I've found nearly all SA folk friendly - I like travelling over there. :). The 2 way radio bit is helpful and you can have a yack to others in the convoy while driving along. A cheap hand held is all you need.

Maybe go to one of their meetings and meet a few of the crew and go from there. :)

[crackers]

Maybe go to one of their meetings and meet a few of the crew and go from there. :)

That's what I plan to do. I only mentioned the radio because of the way it was worded and the impression it gives, it's more than just the radio itself.

[Sitec]

Melrose is always good, and a huge amount of effort goes into organising it. 95% of the club are brilliant, and if I lived nearer and didn't spend so many hours with CFS, I'd prob come down to the meetings and join. If you have the time and interest, then you'll love it! :)

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi Crackers,
If you don't have a two way, get on of these.
Baofeng X Misuta Hero Dual Band UHF VHF TWO WAY FM Radio UV 5R Earpiece AU | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Baofeng-x-Misuta-Hero-Dual-Band-UHF-VHF-Two-Way-FM-Radio-UV-5R-Earpiece-AU-/252015396678?hash=item3aad49c746)
We have several at work. Great little unit. This one is the 2015 model.
You have to pre program it yourself, does vhf and unf. Also does FM radio stations.

Whitehillbilly

[Tombie]

Something that scared me off is the requirement to have a 2 way radio for all club runs. I can understand that if going out bush but this seems to suggest that all runs are perilous affairs or high speed affairs or some such thing where you need that sort of contact. I've spent enough time working in the bush (the real bush, ie, WE were surveying the tracks so they could the build roads, the bulldozers followed US) to know I didn't buy Wombat to do that... well, not on a regular basis. It just seems like an odd requirement that you need that sort of thing for ALL club events. I guess that attitude fits in with my distrust of the yahoo element I've observed in owners of modern 4 wheel drives and yes, I know that's stereotyping and like all stereotypes, unfair to a large part of the subject group. Nor am I particularly interested in being in a group that values money spent ie, the 'mines more rad than yours' element - funny how I've also little time for most cycling groups either due to the 'must the have latest' thrust. Yup, I'm well and truly a retro-grouch and would rather sit around talking about vehicles valued for what they are and what they represented when new than how much money is involved. [/rant] :spudnikconfounded:

Good grief mate :cool: I wont run a trip without vehicles having a radio (I will lend them one if need be)

Its for simple communication between vehicles... Banter, fuel / rest stops, or as simple as "need to stop; got a flat" etc...

As for "who has the biggest/badest/best" toy... Every club will have at least one "well healed" member and one "retro" member... If this bothers you I suggest giving the whole club thing a miss...

If you can admire the purity of the oldies and the development of the newies then you should be ok...

Clubs move through phases - much like this forum - active members become dominant in positions and the clubs tend to shape towards the current committees actions. Then they move on, or a new guard emerge and the club reshapes again - so one year it may be all about touring and the next about short day trips or weekenders...

LRREGSA seems to have a reasonable balance most of the time...

I'm only not a member because making it to meetings would be tiring (8 hours return) :angel:

[Aaron IIA]

Hi Crackers,
If you don't have a two way, get on of these.
Baofeng X Misuta Hero Dual Band UHF VHF TWO WAY FM Radio UV 5R Earpiece AU | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Baofeng-x-Misuta-Hero-Dual-Band-UHF-VHF-Two-Way-FM-Radio-UV-5R-Earpiece-AU-/252015396678?hash=item3aad49c746)
We have several at work. Great little unit. This one is the 2015 model.
You have to pre program it yourself, does vhf and unf. Also does FM radio stations.

Whitehillbilly

Be careful. This style of radio is technically illegal to use on the UHF cb band.

Aaron

[John H]

Im a member,although very inactive.Physical restrictions,distance and my dislike of traffic lights means I rarely go to the big smoke hence I never get to meetings etc.

[crackers]

I spent much of my early working life in the bush - I know what a radio is for.
I spent time in the army reserve - I know what a radio is for.

Those choosing to criticise me can go back and read my posts because you haven't bothered to and no, I don't appreciate it.

It also appears that the ONLY thing you can do in a Land Rover is go on long trips and climb tall mountains. Too bad if all you're interested in is enjoying a lovely old vehicle and exploring a few dirt roads around Adelaide.
Oh, the LLRSA seems to have the same view from their website, and that's what I reacted to.

Until I get the old girl on the road, it'd be nice to be involved with the vehicle I have, an MG. It appears that's not to be but before you jump on me again, you should note that this is one question I will be asking when I ring to discuss the club.

I've been in three car clubs and two motorcycle clubs - not one of them assumed, as some of you are (and it appears, the LLRSA), that there was only one form of activity for their vehicles. Vehicle requirements varied to suit. No-one was criticised for simply wanted to tinker with their vehicle or to drive it sedately. No-one needed a roll bar and fire extinguisher to go on a breakfast run.

Nuff said. I'm out of this discussion and I am sorry I started it.

[Tombie]

Take an extra dose of grumpy pills today?
I've read all your posts (more complaints than comments) and can not understand why something that you continue to claim seems to not meet your needs is even getting responses or interest from you...

Their website shows long trips, touring, harder offroad, social gatherings etc.
They are a LR specific club - but you don't need to drive it there (meetings) but little use bringing something else on a LR trip (it's a LR exclusive club).

Car and bike clubs are very different to 4wd clubs. No one assumes all the same uses (unless you joined a dirt circuit or motorcross club, at which time an MG or a BSA is slightly redundant).

Your posts are being perceived as aggressive/grumpy and as an active member of many clubs - wouldn't go far towards making you feel welcome...

[weeds]

Take an extra dose of grumpy pills today?



Reckon you might have had a grumpy pill or two over the years.

I joined two clubs over the years, but they were not my gig so I exited left quietly.

Seems some are offended by feedback, clubs should embrace feedback.

[Disco Muppet]

Hi Crackers.
The mods have had a pretty thorough look at this thread, and have been since its beginning.
With that in mind, we're struggling to see which posts you have an issue with. There are a few that could be classified as a bit cheeky but nothing said with any malice. Has it occurred to you that perhaps your posts have come across as being antagonistic toward the Land Rover Register of South Australia? Given that the club is popular with members on here, perhaps the tone of your thread has had them a bit defensive from the get go.
If you see something you feel requires a moderator to attend to, please use the report function before it gets to the point of you not wanting to participate, we like people to stick around here :)
If you'd like to continue this conversation via PM, please don't hesitate to get in contact with myself or another member of the Moderating Team.
Sincerely
Muppet

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

[Tombie]

Reckon you might have had a grumpy pill or two over the years.

I joined two clubs over the years, but they were not my gig so I exited left quietly.

Seems some are offended by feedback, clubs should embrace feedback.


Indeed I have....

The comments in this thread by the OP isn't feedback - when the person providing it has not been to, spoken with or participated in any of the clubs events.

Prior to doing any of the above it is complaining and criticism.


My comments were more in line with ongoing complaints about the clubs requirements - how being a Weekend warrior has anything to do with a club trip and radio requirement - I cannot make the connection...

It's ok Weeds; I know you are one of my most committed admirers and you're just looking out for me [emoji41]

[Tombie]

And just a note: Not everyone needs to embrace feedback.

*If* a body/club/corporation has established its modus operandi and is happy with it as it is - then they don't need to embrace anything.

If they choose to seek feedback to change or embrace a new ideal then so be it.

Up until that point people need to be aware that "constructive criticism" doesn't exist, and that it is plainly criticism.

[85 county]

the Land-rover register of SA has a hard job at the best of times, being a marque club, for a marque that has such a wide and varied use.

just think about every thing a land-rover and the different models of land-rovers there are. even just in the S1 bunch, concourse restored, rolling restorations daily drivers weekend drivers, modified V8 powered rock hoppers and then there are the hoarders. etc etc and the list goes on. and that's just for series ones. multiply that over what 70 odd years of production and you have a vaer wide group of land rover owners and potential owners.

NO club management can satisfy such a wide group of people all of the time.

for me the previous version of the land rover register was more suable.

i feel that the sa register is leaning ot getting quite close to the Range rover club of SA.

i will try to clarify by giving an example. and i mean not to take anything away from those who attend and expressly Mr D.R. who puts great effort into organising trips etc. and hes a nice bloke.

they have advertised in there mag a robe beachport trip a couple of weekends ago. the out line i believe is all catch up at a camping ground on a long weekend in beachport on Friday. Saturday backtrack to robe drive down the beach popping out at beachport again and then heading to the pub.

sounds great. Friday is ok you have all-day to get to beachport, but why beachport and then have to back track? when you can camp in the little dip. cheaper and your ready for the morning, no rush. ok go to the pub for dinner or camp again at beachport conservation park, then on Sunday you can have a play in the dunes before taking your time to get home.

now i know the camping ground cabins powered site showers and toilets are mandatory for some members, but add in a atop at talembend bakery and a pub meal camping ground fees on a long weekend and the weekend is becoming quite a pricey trip and something that more me is not achievable. nor is the time seclude child friendly. Saturday being quite a long day.

i believe that this has been refered to by another poster as the 110klmph club

[Tombie]

I believe a symptom of modern life - we see it here all the time.. People doing 7 day runs through the Simpson from Melbourne etc.

[The ho har's]

We travel to S.A. for the LRRSA show from QLD. have been twice if we were in S.A. we woulkd probably join. they seem like a nice group of people and welcome us when we come down. My 2cents worth

Mrs hh:angel:

[BigJon]

I am a member of the Range Rover Club of SA (not the youngest member, but not far off it) and I was quietly impressed with the attitude displayed by other participants at a recent drive day at Jakem Farm. They went (almost) everwhere that I did.

I intend on joining the LR Register when I get a chance to go to a meeting. If only for the opportunity to get Historic Rego on my 76 Rangie. Although I am sure that once I am on board I will find plenty of people to befriend and possibly trips to go on.

I can't do long trips (self employed, young kids) but day or weekend trips are not out of the question.

With 3 Rangies and 3 1/2 Series LRs I feel I am qualified to join any LR based club.

[Tombie]

Whyalla and Districts holds regular "Cannonball run" trips where a few members do things like Birdsville and back over a 3 day weekend.

There's always choices.

[crackers]

I apologise to anyone I've upset in this thread. I've been in the grips of hypomania and anyone who's been there will tell you that you don't know it and that all you can see is incoming fire. Sorry.

[Homestar]

All good mate, everyone here is a forgiving lot. Live and let live, let's get on with enjoying our Land Rovers. :)

[Tombie]

All good Crackers... We all have times like that (I know I do)...