Caravan stability control

[Chucaro]

This is impressive IMO and would not surprise me if in the future becomes a compulsory system on the new vans.
When I get a caravan I would considering them.

Comparison Test BPW Stability System iDC vs. ATC
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwTryt7maxo)

and an Alko Australia video

ALKO ESC (Electronic Stability Control) 2012

[DoubleChevron]

This is impressive IMO and would not surprise me if in the future becomes a compulsory system on the new vans.
When I get a caravan I would considering them.

Comparison Test BPW Stability System iDC vs. ATC
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwTryt7maxo)

and an Alko Australia video

ALKO ESC (Electronic Stability Control) 2012 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWMWb_pxf8I)

My parents Bailey caravan has this. They can test it by just running a wheel over a gutter, eg: round-a-bout. There was one poor road up in NSW that had it tripping constantly on them. Other than that, it's nothing short of brilliant :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Eevo]

looks great.
i hope it doesnt make people complacent though

[cripesamighty]

Dumb question. Would this work in tandem with 'trailer assist' in late model Land Rovers or could there be some problems?

[DoubleChevron]

Dumb question. Would this work in tandem with 'trailer assist' in late model Land Rovers or could there be some problems?

all it does is apply the caravan brakes where oscillations side to side are detected .............. so I can't see how it would interfere with any of the towcar electronics. The towcars electronics would assume to the caravan just stopped swaying without intervention :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Homestar]

Dumb question. Would this work in tandem with 'trailer assist' in late model Land Rovers or could there be some problems?

I think there has been something written about this, but I'm not sure if it's by the factory or just opinion and here say like we're doing here. :D


all it does is apply the caravan brakes where oscillations side to side are detected .............. so I can't see how it would interfere with any of the towcar electronics. The towcars electronics would assume to the caravan just stopped swaying without intervention :)

seeya,
Shane L.

I think there is a thought that the car will try and steady the van at the same time the van tries to do the same thing so I'm not sure if they can end up fighting each other.

[Homestar]

looks great.
i hope it doesnt make people complacent though

It could do, but in the same way ABS and ESC has done this to car drivers, but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives in this case - it's a nice bit of kit.

Just looked it up - $1,200 to $1,500 for this - but it isn't available as a kit, you must have it installed by 'An authorised Alko ESC specialist'. The price doesn't include brakes, suspension or axle which all have to be Alko by the look of it, so it would be quite an expensive job to retrofit it all by the looks of it.

Good idea if you're buying new though.

[justinc]

Totally agree! However I'll have to save up a bit though...😕

Jc

[LandyAndy]

Dumb question. Would this work in tandem with 'trailer assist' in late model Land Rovers or could there be some problems?

I spoke to the mob who make it at the last caravan show.They said that their system actually improves the tow vehicles system but works entirely seperate so no electronic conflicts.
They were salesmen,take it or leave it,with their advice.
Andrew

[Chucaro]

The Dexter sway control looks interesting because instead of applying the brakes on both sides of the caravan/trailer it selects which side requires to be controlled.
I guess that when the time comes a comparison have to be made to get the best of both systems.

Dexter Sway Control (https://www.youtube.com/watch't=2&v=bf8ImtKqshw)

[Homestar]

That one at least can be retro fitted to most vans with electric brakes without an entire suspension upgrade.

[Chucaro]

Yes, Melbourne Trailer & Caravan Supplies at Chelsea Height in Vic are the agents for them.

[Homestar]

Was near there last Thursday... :D

Might drop in next time I'm in the area and get a bit more info.

[ADMIRAL]

all it does is apply the caravan brakes where oscillations side to side are detected .............. so I can't see how it would interfere with any of the towcar electronics. The towcars electronics would assume to the caravan just stopped swaying without intervention :)

seeya,
Shane L.

I queried several owners with the Alko setup, and all were disappointed. It may very well work, but the owners I spoke to felt the intervention was too slow. Perhaps they expected it to eliminate sway altogether, but it seems passing a roadtrain going the other way, still throws the van around, Alko ESC fitted or not. It also seems the system takes several off line movements before it reacts.

I have had a few hairy moments with our van ( 2.5 tonne ) on loose surfaces, and the D4 has helped me out of them each time. I am no longer even considering fitting any ESC setup to the van. I believe the D4's systems are superior. ( and proven first hand )

[Homestar]

Maybe those people also had badly set up vans to start with, that were inhenantly unstable, and assumed some sort of sway control would fix it, rather than loading the van correctly (some vans just can't be as they are designed so badly). How many vans do you see with racks hanging off the back with bikes, spares and jerry cans attached, and have heavy ensuites and grey water tanks behind the axle? I was always taught (and physics proves it) that you should have as little weight behind the axle as possible. It's no fluke of design that semi trailers have the tri axle group right at the back. I've only got the bed behind the axle on mine, the heavy stuff - fridge, batteries, stove, water tank, etc are all over or just forward of the axle. On some big vans, all that weight at the back will only exacerbate how long a swaying van takes to become stable again.

Personally my little brick is rock solid behind any car I tow it with. It does move to one side when a big truck comes past the other way, and that's always going to happen - it's very large for its weight (1975 full height, full width van 16' long that weighs 1,300Kg), but it snaps back into line straight away and never gives the feeling of being twitchy or unsafe to tow. It has got a longer draw bar than standard which improved things greatly though.

[DoubleChevron]

I queried several owners with the Alko setup, and all were disappointed. It may very well work, but the owners I spoke to felt the intervention was too slow. Perhaps they expected it to eliminate sway altogether, but it seems passing a roadtrain going the other way, still throws the van around, Alko ESC fitted or not. It also seems the system takes several off line movements before it reacts.

I have had a few hairy moments with our van ( 2.5 tonne ) on loose surfaces, and the D4 has helped me out of them each time. I am no longer even considering fitting any ESC setup to the van. I believe the D4's systems are superior. ( and proven first hand )

My parents have done several trips north with there's. My father is a long time caravaner and knows how to load a 'van. It's never moved, never swayed .... the ESC has tripped several times, never due to swaying though.

I consider it an absolute last resort, it is NOT supposed to stop swaying, it will however save your skin the day you need it. If I could have ESC on a 'van .... it's a no brainer, I'd have if fitted without a single seconds hesitation. There is no way a cars ESC will save you the way this system could. Simply because the car cannot remotely apply the caravans brakes. If my caravan ever takes off ..... The accellerator will be rammed to the floor ...................... and I'll be throwing on the caravans brakes too. If the caravans braking, and the cars not .... the whole lot WILL straighten up without relying (fingers crossed) on some electronic package in the car hopefully being able to overcome the laws of physics by applying the cars brakes individually ( this will never be as effective as the caravan throwing it's brakes on if you think about it).

In theory I could fit it to our old 'van ( twin axle electric brakes). I just don't have the spare available funds though.

If you have a caravan that sways, the answer is NOT fitting something to "catch" the caravan when the **** has hit the fan. You need to fix the underlying cause of the swaying.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Homestar]

Spot on Shane, but it's amazing how many people fit sway breakers or load levellers or similar to stop the van from swaying. My FIL has been towing vans regularly since before I was born, but he doesn't get it. His current van - a single axle, late 80's pop top is horrendous to tow and sways all over the place just going in a straight line on the freeway. The only time I towed it for him I thought I'd got a flat tyre, but he said 'don't worry, that's normal' :eek: I've talked to him about what the problems may be and that he should get it sorted properly because vans shouldn't do that, but he said 'it's just a part of vanning' - 'I've stuck the old load levellers on it since then and it's much better'.

I wonder how many out there are like this?

[Tombie]

And thats exactly it Gav & Shane! You guys have nailed it...

**** poor design is the common cause of instability and these modern van builders really need to be held accountable!

A one size/design fits all approach - doesn't work either - A tug is not just a tug - and people need to take into account what their intended tow vehicle is when working through the appropriate choice of van.

And with modern design, modelling and composites - I believe its about time van design and weight are reduced to suitable levels - 3500kg is a lot of cases is way beyond many vehicles (and operators) level of capability.

[DoubleChevron]

The aussie baileys mentioned in the other thread. There really going to shakeup the local caravan industry. The current Jayco Silverline with slide .... The bailey will be sold for less money ... with the same slide features but will be 700kg less. I don't understand how those modern jaycos are so incredibly heavy. Are they built with chassis made of lead or something :wasntme:

When bailey gets going in Australia with there locally made 'vans ... there going to kill all the local manufactures as there product is so superior for similar costs.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Chucaro]

Shane, you appreciate French vehicles, get one of this and kiss goodbye the towing vehicle. :D
I love to see the grey nomads with them in the Bruce hwy :D

Caravan with Renault 1.4 turbo engine

[Chucaro]

And thats exactly it Gav & Shane! You guys have nailed it...

**** poor design is the common cause of instability and these modern van builders really need to be held accountable!

A one size/design fits all approach - doesn't work either - A tug is not just a tug - and people need to take into account what their intended tow vehicle is when working through the appropriate choice of van.

And with modern design, modelling and composites - I believe its about time van design and weight are reduced to suitable levels - 3500kg is a lot of cases is way beyond many vehicles (and operators) level of capability.
I guess that towing a caravan that the weight it is not over the 85% of the towing vehicle loaded weight is a good start.

[DoubleChevron]

Shane, you appreciate French vehicles, get one of this and kiss goodbye the towing vehicle. :D
I love to see the grey nomads with them in the Bruce hwy :D

Caravan with Renault 1.4 turbo engine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UCZF_UnG10)

I've always wanted a little Renault 5 turbo :twisted: :twisted:

[DoubleChevron]

I guess that towing a caravan that the weight it is not over the 85% of the towing vehicle loaded weight is a good start.

It's mostly the layout of the caravan too. Front kitchen and storage hatches, rear lift up bed and storage hatches allows all the weight to be concentrate right at the ends. So you have the kitchen, fridge, gas bottles, front boot and god knows what else bolted to the drawbar, and a big lift up bed up the back edge that all the big heavy stuff can be stored under, two massive heavy spare wheels swinging off the very rear edge of the caravan, and a rear boot.... Insanity.

The poms dont' even fit front or rear boots any longer for fear of them being loaded with anything heavy. My parents Bailey has the gas bottles mounted over the axle (so is under the sink in the kitchen area). everything that is a hefty weight that can be moved, they have located over the axle. even the spare wheel is under there.

just look at the quality of all the fittings (turn the sound off)

https://youtu.be/VJzrb140Fkc

Single axle ... about 20foot long, full sized ensuite, twin gas bottles (mounted under the sink if you look), big payload (the aussie sold ones have upgraded ALKO chassis and suspension units).

The trouble with importing these 'vans like my brother did is they have bugger all payload (about 250kg from memory) and dont' have the upgraded heavy duty ALKO chassis/suspension units of the locally sold caravans. So you add a water tank (100kg), air conditioner ( 60kg ), roll out awning (50kg) ........ How is your payload looking now ??

seeya
Shane L.

[Chucaro]

I was looking at the Unicorn coroba video and it is very impressive.
Regarding the chassis on the UK vans , the Germans are using the same chassis and some of the manufacturer back up their vans for up to 10 years including water leaking,
IMO these vans are so well deigned inside that soon will be used as a granny flat in many parts of Australia.
Just to think that nursing homes are asking $300000 deposit or more plus 80% of the age pension the old timers will be better of paying $200 a week in a caravan park or in some relatives back yard and living in a caravan like these.
That it is what happens in USA now even with middle age people that losts their job and in many cases their home.

[forwari]

I have an 09 Disc 3 towing 2600kg 22 ft tandem axle van. Before looking at forking out big bucks for an ESC I would first look at the tyres. Are they the right ones for what you want to do. The dealers stick on ones that are about 70/30 but for most of us. Some are worse than useless in the wet and are often not inflated to the right psi. As others have stated the correct balance and fit out are the basics to start with but most of us just kick the tyres.

[DoubleChevron]

I have an 09 Disc 3 towing 2600kg 22 ft tandem axle van. Before looking at forking out big bucks for an ESC I would first look at the tyres. Are they the right ones for what you want to do. The dealers stick on ones that are about 70/30 but for most of us. Some are worse than useless in the wet and are often not inflated to the right psi. As others have stated the correct balance and fit out are the basics to start with but most of us just kick the tyres.

Is that the loaded weight? The 22.5' 'van I have here reckons it's only 1600kg on the compliance plate.

seeya
Shane L.

[Bobc163]

Had it retro fitted to our van
Not a big issue just had to "explain" a few facts regarding electrical connections to the installer (wanted to put ANOTHER Anderson plug on the Disco)
Van has simplicity suspension with Alko drum brakes (it will work with other brands)
Minor hiccup at the beginning, they had to recalibrate it, but all good now and have had it operate once when a large semi went past the other way at HIGH speed it corrected before I could even think about it :D