3 litre inlet manifold crack problems

[BBS Guy]

So my mugh lighter Right footed wife tells me that on a return from getting my Rolling road remapped and so far faultless 3.0 litre 2010 sport washed, it suddenly went into restricted performance mode recently.

Fortunately I know someone with access to some diagnostic equipment ;)and managed to pull up two fault codes that constantly re appeared as soon I hit about 3000 RPM along with the PM mode.

One was P006A that indicated a discrepancy of Air flow info between a MAF and Map annd the second P1247 that indicated a loss of Turbo boost pressure.

My initial research showed this combination indicates a problem with the secondary Turbo or more likely with its output plumbing.

However deeper and more hands on research has revealed that the problem is actually due to something that is actually a quite common faliure of one of the two plastic inlet manifolds splitting / Cracking.

There was apparently an LR TSB that explained that the material thickness on the Inlet manifolds was too thin, that seems to have dissapeared and my research shows that this problem only affects 2010 Sports and D4's with the 3.0 litre engine.
Not only have I encontered numerous on line cases of this including one on this forum.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/222238-turbo-leak-3-0-litre.html

On visiting my own LR specialist mechanic, he told me he had a vehicle booked in just a couple of days later with the same problem and on which he was replacing an inlet manifold.
he let us pre read the Fault codes on that Vehicle which actually matched the two on mine verbatim

Two days later he showed me the crack on the removed Manifold, which was actually the opposite side to the one I figured from the Oil traces was split somewhere on mine, he also told me that he realised the other manifold had already been replaced on that vehicle.

I checked the exact same place on the other side of my Manifold and sure enough I found the crack.

The fault codes are only loosely related as in my case the crack only opens when the secondary turbo adds it's boost. Larger cracks might give fault codes that indicate a problem with the Primary Turbo etc.

Or if a crack is small enough it might only reduce performance and economy without triggering a Fault.

I came across one case where the crack had become something you would otherwise need a Tin opener for.

The replacement and updated from 2011 on manifolds are not exacty cheap but to replace them takes 8 or 9 hours due to all the other stuff that has to be removed and refitted.

Nice one LR :angry:

[justinc]

Thanks and commiserations colin. I'm looking forward to doing my first one. Not.

Again thanks LR engineers...

Jc

[BobD]

That was my recent post on Turbo Leak in 3.0l. I replaced both manifolds, even though only one was cracked. From your post it looks like I did the right thing. Mine started like yours, only producing an error after revving the engine a bit during normal driving. However, it quickly progressed to the point where it would error almost immediately once driving.

[BBS Guy]

Despite reading about over a dozen cases on line of this Inlet Manifold Cracking and having another case right in front of me, as well a my own, the only pictures of the damage I could find on line were these two in which case the damage has clearly gone way beyond a small and hard to detect crack.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/668.jpg


And after removal

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/669.jpg


So, I thought that after getting my replacments Today I would take a couple of pictures of them and use these to show exctly where the Cracking starts on them or at least from the examples i have seen myself is the case with a bit of Photo shopping to add a Red line where you should look.

This is the RH ie when looking from the front of the vehicle or the passenger side on a RHD vehicle and is the one that my Garage echanic friend just changed on another 2010 Sport vehicle and then showed me the removed one ith a crack just where i have indicated with a photo shopped in Red line on my picture.

Interestingly there is now and additional stub / Boss I have circled in Blue in the New replacement that is not present in the origional failed one and you also get a new blank engine number tag which is not so cool.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/670.jpg

This is the one that is actually cracked on my own RRS. It is called the LHside as that s the side it is on when you are standing in front of the engine. Otherwise it is on the drivers side on a RHD vehicle which is the side the Secondary Turbo is fitted.

The location you should check for a crack is also indicated with a red Line and as with my piture of the other side, I have been sure to have the Part Number included in the picture that I am assured is the latest although i find it worrying that there seeems to be no dicernable improvement in strength where the cracking occurs.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/671.jpg

This is quite obviously much more than a one off or infrequent problem as indicated by JC and Bob, who was quite right to change both.

These inlet manifolds are quite clearly unfit for purporse.

And it is not so much the cost of the parts but the difficuty and time involved in replacing them.

Thanks LR, Not.

[Melbourne Park]

Good that they've improved the design; bad that it was a bad design.

Not sure about ethics here ... if under warranty they'd have fixed it though.

Lexus would probably pay for half the labour and parts ... or perhaps the whole lot, because 6 year warranties can be available for Toyotas.

I would try to get some back from Land Rover ... although now its done, that would be more difficult.

I wonder what legal rights you might have ... as its clearly a faulty design.

[BBS Guy]

For me, especially given my geographic location, chasing up this as a design flaw in the hope of getting some acknowledgement or assistance from LR is not that viable.

I am just happy to find and fix this and accordingly share my findings via this forum with others. After all, that is the benefit of the internet and forums such as this.

So far I have shared pictures I found on line of one person who had the lid of his LH Inlet manifold well blown.

But some may think that this could have been some one off manufacturing defect, but then I stated that my Mechanic had just replaced a RH one a few days earlier for a crack / Split on a 3.0 2010 RRS that he believed had already had its LH one replaced.

Having got the RH one my mechanic removed from this other Vehicle as well as the LH one he removed from mine, I have taken some pictures of both that clearly show real world and hopefully undeniable examples of this weakness. After all everyone likes to see the pictures and evidence themselves ;)

First off is my own LH side one where i have ringed the crack / Split in a red line

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/374.jpg

Of course the Crack / split would open up under pressure and to further emphasise this I have taken a close up with a small Coin inserted in the crack / Split.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/375.jpg

On the RH side the crack is in the same place

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/376.jpg

And again in close up and emphasised with a Coin

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/377.jpg

You may note that the RH side pictures show huge amounts of soot and dirt near the Crack / Split where mine is quite clean. I put this down to the owner continuing to use his Vehicle for an extended period after this happened.

For those not able to figure the orientation and position of these Manifolds and Crack's / Split's I also took this one of the 2 manifolds in the positions you would see them from standing in front of the vehicle leaving the Coins in.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/378.jpg

Of course I knew nothing of this Crack / Split until my Vehicles Engine Management threw a wobbly, but I do consider that there may well have been a crack / Split that was initially small enough to not cause a wobbly in the EMS but reduce power and efficiency.

One of the first things I checked was my air filter, which to my utter shame was in an absolutely disgraceful condition and unusually I found even worse in my Air Box. My investigations also found that the Vacumn actuator of the Secondary Turbo Bypass valve was a suspect, which I also had replaced with the Inlet Manifolds as well as a Oil and all filters.

I am not sure which had the most effect, but what I can say for sure is that the vehicle now delivers a degree of power and performance that is truly astonishing and really puts a smile on my face.

ATB

[LRD414]

Thanks for the excellent post. I'm sure this will be a big help for others when troubleshooting.

Scott

[~Rich~]

My mechanic commented today to me that this is becoming more & more prevalent in the 3.0ltr engine.
More of a worry is the service schedule for the D4 is 24,000k or 12mths which is way too long.

Everyone knows of the secondary turbo drain pipe issue as another thing to consider.

I will not be buying any secondhand 3.0 engine which has been serviced by the book, like the auto it's asking for issues once the warranty period has ended.
I'd only ever consider one that had been serviced every 10/12,000k.

Remember also that many D4's have been used as school run vehicles which classifies as arduous conditions due to the short less than 10km distance travelled. This too should have the oil changed more often but of course this would not have happened.

Gonna be a lot of issues coming up with stuffed engines!
Perhaps a class action stating that all these vehicles were serviced by the book yet fail within a short lifespan.

Terry that V8 petrol sound like the way to go!
(No I'm not selling mine)
Cheers Rich.

[LRD414]

My mechanic commented today to me that this is becoming more & more prevalent in the 3.0ltr engine.
More of a worry is the service schedule for the D4 is 24,000k or 12mths which is way too long.
I agree with you Rich regarding service schedule, that's what I'm doing (10/12k). But I'm not sure if more frequent servicing focused on oil/filter changes would have picked up the cracked manifold earlier. I think it would be a particularly diligent mechanic that would find such a fault during a regular service, unless of course one was specifically looking for known issues. I guess this is an advantage of using good, experienced and diligent people and perhaps looking over things yourself too.

Regarding the increasing prevalence of 3.0L engine issues, perhaps this is a function of more of them getting to the lifespan/age when things that are going to wear out or break will occur. And this situation has already occured for most 2.7L engines, being older.

I wonder if, on average, the 2.7 or 3.0 suffer from more failures?

Cheers,
Scott

[BobD]

My car was serviced at 24,000km intervals before I bought it at 60,000km. since then it has been at around 10,000km and I am up to about 207,000 now. My cracked manifold threw up a fault and restricted performance before there was any noticeable loss of power or any other symptoms. After a week of resetting the fault it reoccurred every time I accelerated. You would have to be extremely stupid or ignorant to drive around continuously with restricted performance like that photo indicates. The car is extremely gutless with basically no turbo, even though it will drive OK and get you slowly from A to B.

[~Rich~]

The mechanic has had quite a few stuffed 3ltrs already, much more than the 2.7, they can only put it down to the service interval. Oh and yes how painful will be every time you need to change the rear timing belt, body off!

No the engine life issue is not due to the cracked manifold, perhaps the sieced 3.0 thread may have been a better place to mention the service interval.

[Graeme]

Its not meant to be body off to change the fuel pump belt on the 3.0 according to the WSM.

[SilvaD4]

Dumb question but can one do a visual check for a cracked manifold without to much dissassembly?

[LandyAndy]

From the looks of the pics it looks like you only need to remove the engine noise cover.If there are cracks you will see the ooze in the pics I would say.
Andrew

[BobD]

Even when Kevin at Rovertech showed me the cracks I could not see the manifolds, let alone the crack! They are in below all of the pipes and injectors and stuff and not easy to see unless you know what you are looking at. To get at them everything has to be removed from the engine bay, batteries, air box and everything else so the car looks very sad and sorry for itself. It is a very big job, hence the cost.

[BBS Guy]

One of the points of my post and many decent close up pictures, including putting a coin in the cracks, especially the last one with the two Manifolds in the same place you would find them on the Engine was to show everyone exactly where to look.

Of course in my case I did not drive around with the problem, which is why My left one is so much cleaner than the right one which came from another vehicle where the owner had continued driving it for gawd knows how long.

Once I had seen the Right one and so knew exactly where to look, i wanted to see if mine had the same but on the right side.

So I started by pulling off the Engines Noise cover. That alone was enough to give me my first clue because it had quite a bit of Oil on it's Grey foam covered underside just behind the hole for the Oil Filler cap. This could have come from the cap however the area just behind the cap did not have oil for about 3 inches.

I can only Imagine the mess that must have been on the underside of the other owners Vehicle.

I did not have to move any wiring or pipework, although I did have to push back the edge of some foam to see the area quite clearly as it is on top as shown in my pictures and sure enough, although neatly closed at that time, there was the hairline crack quite easily visible. So it is definatley worth checking yourself IMHO

Of course changing the Manifolds is quite huge job requiring loads of stuff to be removed. It took My chap two days who has done a few.

On another note, continuing the 2.7 V 3.0 problems discussion, last week I encountered a new problem when my 3.0 sport sprang a Massive oil leak at the rate of about 1 Litre per 3 Minutes.

I was lucky to catch this before the sump was emptied, although it did need 5 litres adding afterwards.

The cause turned out to be the front Crankshaft oil seal.

It had not failed in the usual way but had actually popped out completely by quite a way.

Warning, This image contains Graphic images that might be of grave concern to any 3.0 Litre equipped Land Rover owners.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/270.jpg


The seal is not expensive, but it ruined the cam belt and was not easy to replace requiring special alignment tools etc.

What is even more annoying is that this seal fits into the Oil Pump housing that one earlier 2.7's is a known problem for cracking causing a new uprated part fitted as standard to all 3.0 engines.
However although My mechanic has never seen this happen on the earlier part, it seems it is not uncommon on the Later one.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

it must have offered clues if you caught it?
smell? smoke?

[SilvaD4]

My mechanic commented today to me that this is becoming more & more prevalent in the 3.0ltr engine.
More of a worry is the service schedule for the D4 is 24,000k or 12mths which is way too long.

Everyone knows of the secondary turbo drain pipe issue as another thing to consider.

Hi Rich,

Does you mechanics comment relate to earlier 3.0ltr D4's (2010 to 2012) or would this also apply to later 2013 onward D4's. In other words have LR now addressed these issues (cracked manifolds and secondary turbo drain pipe issues) or is it on going? If he could clarify for each issue individually it would be helpful to newer D4 owners.

[jonesy63]

What is even more annoying is that this seal fits into the Oil Pump housing that one earlier 2.7's is a known problem for cracking causing a new uprated part fitted as standard to all 3.0 engines.

Hi Colin,
I saw that Disco_Mikey (on disco3.co.uk) had a couple of those seals pop out on his customer cars. The seal that popped out were from B**tpart.

[~Rich~]

Hi Rich,

Does you mechanics comment relate to earlier 3.0ltr D4's (2010 to 2012) or would this also apply to later 2013 onward D4's. In other words have LR now addressed these issues (cracked manifolds and secondary turbo drain pipe issues) or is it on going? If he could clarify for each issue individually it would be helpful to newer D4 owners.

I'll ask the question, has there been a design change with the manifold design.
As for the service interval, this has not altered.
It's funny how L/R are going back to single turbos in the D5, perhaps they have learnt something about longevity of that secondary turbo.

[LandyAndy]

Colin.
A thought.
Are failing EGR systems causing over pressurizing of the sump????
There is no way a seal should blow out like that.
Andrew

[BBS Guy]

Neither Pedro The Swift; I just got real lucky
As my house drive is clean, it must have happened during the Ten minute drive I took from my home to the office during which I did give it some beans because I was late and had promised my wife I would go with her to take the L322 to my mechanics about 5 mins away to fix a water leak, going in the two cars so I could bring her back.

I pulled into the yard behind the L322 as she came out the door and spoke with her through the Passenger side window for a minute. I reversed out of the yards Gate using the mirrors, pulling up to the side so she could reverse out and I could follow her.
Then I thought this would be a good opportunity to do a live data capture my chaps had been working on, so phoned the Guys to bring a Nanocom down while i pulled back into the yard motioning to my wife to wait a couple of mins. I sat in the car waiting for about 5 mins when they popped out and gave me the Nanocom throught the Passenger window. After plugging it in while going through the Menu to set up the capture, my wife came over to the drivers window to see what was causing the delay and mentioned that there was a trail of something on the floor that looked like it could be oil coming from one of our cars.

I did not think much of it but said I would look and she waited there. So just to pacify her, a minute later I get out and look and there are 3 solid lines of Black oil passing from where my Sport was, through the gate and Two dinner plate sized puddles underneath the Sport with one growing larger due to the steady stream of oil coming from my engine.

I Immediately turned off the engine walked through the gate and there was also a large puddle where I had pulled up and I could see a continuous trail leading right down the road and round the corner.

I lifted the Bonnet and there was nothing I could see.

I was really lucky and very gratefull to my wife as it certainly would not be good if i had followed her to the Mechanics.

He later told me he had to put 5 litres of oil in it

jonesy63:
My Sport is a 2010 MY with about 105,000 Miles on it and I am quite sure this is the origional seal. I understand they are tricky to fit properly.

~Rich~:
I origionally thought there was a difference but I was mistaken and the replacements were visually identical inside and out.

Hiya Andrew
I have not had any EGR problems and of course it was all cleaned out and checked when the Inlet manifolds were replaced. However it is a mystery as to why the seal came out and as you can see, it is by quite a distance.

Unfortunately that was not the Last Vehiclular mishap for that week, but that's another story ;)

[Graeme]

The original 3.0 oil pump housing has been superseded. The oil seal popping out of the original housing is a known problem which IIRC was due to the surface being too smooth.

Edit: The new part# was introduced no earlier than 2013 as the 3.0 in the 2012 L405 still used the earlier part#.

[TerryO]

When I looked at buying a secondhand D4 about 18 months ago I decided that the 3.0 litre was to new at that time to be sure if they had any long term issues or not so I went down what I hope turns out to be the safe but unpopular at the time petrol option, especially after knowing the ongoing costs of keeping the 2.7 D3 on the road.

Reading all of these expensive issues with the early 3.0 litres now makes me glad I was cautious. Shame that such great vehicles have such bad design faults and LR won't do anything to assist their customers.

[scarry]

When I looked at buying a secondhand D4 about 18 months ago I decided that the 3.0 litre was to new at that time to be sure if they had any long term issues or not so I went down what I hope turns out to be the safe petrol option, especially after the ongoing costs of keeping the 2.7 D3 on the road.

Reading all of these expensive issues with the early 3.0 litres now makes me glad I was so cautious. Shame that such great vehicles have such bad design faults and LR won't do anything to assist their customers.

The D4 2.7 is probably the best sorted engine in the D3/4 range.

Although the lower power 3.0l hasn't been around long enough to see if it has any issues.

[jonesy63]

The D4 2.7 is probably the best sorted engine in the D3/4 range.

I agree Paul - this is the third generation of the motor.


MY04-MY06: Euro 3
MY07-MY09: Euro 4
MY10-MY12: Euro 4 with 3L crankshaft bearings and updated oil pump casing, which has also been superceded.

The only downside - economy was not as good as in my D3 MY07 and oil seal can slip out of pump (although I've only heard of this happening on the 3L motor).

Edit: updated details to be correct.

[Graeme]

MY10-MY12: Euro 4 with 3L crankshaft and updated oil pump.According to the LR parts catalogue, its the same oil pump housing that's fitted to the 3.0 that allows the seal to walk and since superseded.

[Celtoid]

The original 3.0 oil pump housing has been superseded. The oil seal popping out of the original housing is a known problem which IIRC was due to the surface being too smooth.

Edit: The new part# was introduced no earlier than 2013 as the 3.0 in the 2012 L405 still used the earlier part#.


Yup, that's what happened to my MY10 3.0L .... made a hell of a mess to components but very little in the way of obvious external signs .... a slight drop of oil. Parts and labour for the oil pump, timing belts and some suspension parts exceeded $3K. Thank god I'd taken out an extended warranty.


This occurred early 2013 (around 70,000klms on the car), LR were at that stage aware of the problem and had supposedly fixed it.

[Graeme]

MY10-MY12: Euro 4 with 3L crankshaft
Can't be the same crankshaft as the 2.7 stroke is 88mm and the 3.0 is 90mm.

[BBS Guy]

Back in Late Nov 2015 when my manifolds which are also the Cam covers were replaced, I read that there was a Land Rover Technical Service Bulletin about it and waded throught Topix at some length but could find nothing useful. With Graeme mention that the Oil seal is also a known problem I just rechecked and low and behold, I found the attached two TSB's.
One for the Cracking and One for the seal.

Note that the one for the cracking appearing only a month after my problem. I also note that they list only one Causal PN, although as my pictures show, both sides are prone to this.

The one for the Seal is dated late Nov 2014 although they seem to have fixed this somewhat earlier in production.

I hope someone notices that they fixed it a year earlier in the D4 that the Sport !!!

Anyway I hope this helps in determining the vehicles, engine CC's and Vin ranges that are affected, if LR can be believed that is.

[TerryO]

Amazing they admit the manifold is not made to specification and the material isn't thick enough.
That is an admission of a faulty part supplied by them at time of manufacture and then sold on to their customers. So how the hell can they charge people when these crack even out of warranty for labour or the part?

[Graeme]

The one for the Seal is dated late Nov 2014 although they seem to have fixed this somewhat earlier in production.

I hope someone notices that they fixed it a year earlier in the D4 that the Sport !!!
The versions you have found are several revisions later than the originals indicating that the problems were being addressed earlier.

The Sport changed models from LS to LW whilst the D4 range is still in production so both Sport models are listed and span the same production time.

Here is the earlier version of the oil seal bulletin with housing identifying details.
106022

[jonesy63]

Can't be the same crankshaft as the 2.7 stroke is 88mm and the 3.0 is 90mm.

I missed the word "bearings" and have updated my post. Thanks.

[Graeme]

I didn't have specific info but thought I had read that the bearing journals were increased to the 3.0 size. Its a pity that the problem of slipping shells wasn't resolved (supposedly) until around 2013.

[BobD]

Looks like later than 2013 is the D4 to get. Most of the problems seem to have been fixed in 2013.

[~Rich~]

Looks like later than 2013 is the D4 to get. Most of the problems seem to have been fixed in 2013.


As long as it's been serviced every 10/12000 k and not by the book. ;)

[LRD414]

Looks like later than 2013 is the D4 to get. Most of the problems seem to have been fixed in 2013.
Yes, except for the manifold cracking!!
The TSB linked earlier has VINs through to 765561, which is 2015

Scott

[Meken]

Post for later

[scarry]

I didn't have specific info but thought I had read that the bearing journals were increased to the 3.0 size. Its a pity that the problem of slipping shells wasn't resolved (supposedly) until around 2013.

Pretty sure the last 2.7 was MY12,MY13 was the lower output 3.0l and the 8speed.

[apachefreak]

OMG
I only just purchased a 2010 D4,
this all sounds really worrying
does any one know if this applies to either the 3.0 TDV6 or the SDV6?
Should the manifold fault be a Land Rover recall issue??
How concerned should a new land rover D4 owner (like me) be worried about these issues??
Should I be regretting being a LR4 owner now???:eek::confused:

[~Rich~]

Perhaps as I mentioned earlier a class action or even start another Change petition for all 3.0ltr owners to sign?

[Graeme]

Are people aware that the 2.7 uses the same manifolds?

[BobD]

OMG
does any one know if this applies to either the 3.0 TDV6 or the SDV6?
Should the manifold fault be a Land Rover recall issue??


Mine is a 3.0 TDV6, which is the same as a later model SDV6. 2010 model was called 3.0 TDV6. The problem occurs with both, up to 2015 model if one of the earlier posts is correct.


If you are worried, limit the second turbo use by keeping the revs below 2500!! Otherwise just drive it and worry about things if and when they happen. If it happens, pay the money and move on or else drive it around in restricted performance mode like some people seem to have done and fill the engine bay with carbon (not fun and not recommended).


I haven't approached LR about the manifolds in mine. Maybe if I did they would offer to do something. I just think that problems happen in cars and you fix them as they occur. Mine has a hard life, lots of off road and rough road touring, towing over long distances often on rough roads and heaps of both high speed country driving and city driving with heavy acceleration. It has been brilliant for 190,000km and the cracked inlet manifold is the only really bad thing I reckon. I've fixed it and its now coming up for 210,000km so I can't really complain too much.


I had 2 x VW Transporters from new before the second hand D4, one of which was a top of the line Multivan TDI. Both of those cars had major failures at around 100,000km, such as complete auto failure, two turbo failures, continuous restricted performance issues that the dealer took weeks and lots of my money to finally trace to a leaking turbo gasket, just to name a few. These cars had some light bitumen towing and country running but no rough roads at all and no trips all around Australia like my D4 has every year. If I kept either of them for 200,000km they probably would have had a heap more expensive repairs.

[Graeme]

The parts catalogue shows MY11 D4 vin BA568563 was the start of the current part number usage for the manifolds. I note that this is at odds with the TSB vin range.

Edit: I've discovered that the part numbers have been superseded twice since the MY11 version, hence the discrepancy. I wonder if the problem has really been solved yet.

[gotaflat]

what was the cost to replace if rooted? - I guess I am just waiting for mine to crack :mad:

and adding that to the next service cost
- with timing belt replacement
- g box service/flush
- Shocks to be replace...
....and working out if I just trade in now and be done with it.

[Graeme]

The problem occurs with both, up to 2015 model if one of the earlier posts is correct.With 3 new manifold versions since the 3.0 was released, I wonder how long before the latest version fails.

[apachefreak]

If you are worried, limit the second turbo use by keeping the revs below 2500!! Otherwise just drive it and worry about things if and when they happen. If it happens, pay the money and move on or else drive it around in restricted performance mode like some people seem to have done and fill the engine bay with carbon (not fun and not recommended).

cheers BobD
I guess your right, hopefully it doesnt happen too soon,
will deal with it when/if it happens
I love the vehicle, and hopefully they will have an after market fix or upgraded part in the near future.
looks like a really tough time consuming job!

[justinc]

The original 3.0 oil pump housing has been superseded. The oil seal popping out of the original housing is a known problem which IIRC was due to the surface being too smooth.

Edit: The new part# was introduced no earlier than 2013 as the 3.0 in the 2012 L405 still used the earlier part#.

Hi graeme i have just had this happen can you let me know the part number of the superceded one if you know it please? I am interested to see if i have been supplied early stock....the date code is 2012 stamped on the part...😠😠

Jc

[BobD]

With 3 new manifold versions since the 3.0 was released, I wonder how long before the latest version fails.



Graeme, my mechanic tells me that the new ones on my car are massively stronger than the old ones. They have ribs to keep the flat plastic flat and they appear to be much thicker, so hopefully they last at least another 200,000km, by which time it will be ready for the wreckers!

[Graeme]

Current versions seem to be LR073585 and LR074623.

[Graeme]

Hi graeme i have just had this happen can you let me know the part number of the superceded one if you know it please? I am interested to see if i have been supplied early stock....the date code is 2012 stamped on the part...����

JcLR076782 appears to be the latest part number.

The V5 TSB that I posted shows the identifying marks on the new housing.

[gotaflat]

Perhaps as I mentioned earlier a class action or even start another Change petition for all 3.0ltr owners to sign?

it would be worth a go given the evidence presented.

[DazzaTD5]

Thanks and commiserations colin. I'm looking forward to doing my first one. Not.

Again thanks LR engineers...

Jc

haaahaaa you and me both...

My thought though is "cheap Ford mass produced engines" Keep in mind while this engine has been around for quite awhile the Ford Territory is the first Ford vehicle to actually use it, I'm sure many engine related issues such as this will be seen over time in Ford Territory.

Fancy adding the Territory to your list of vehicle to repair? :p
I already service a few but have yet to do major engine work.

Regards
Daz

[~Rich~]

Ford Territory is only the single turbo 2.7 so it won't have the issue either. The motor has been used in Jags and many other vehicles and it's actually a Peugeot engine.

[scarry]

Ford Territory is only the single turbo 2.7 so it won't have the issue either. The motor has been used in Jags and many other vehicles and it's actually a Peugeot engine.

Have a look at post 42 in this thread.;)

But has there been a failure in the 2.7?

[BobD]

I don't know, but you would think perhaps that everything would be operating at lower boost pressures with the single turbo 2.7.

[BBS Guy]

Graeme, my mechanic tells me that the new ones on my car are massively stronger than the old ones. They have ribs to keep the flat plastic flat and they appear to be much thicker,


Current versions seem to be LR073585 and LR074623.

Thats a bit odd, as you can see in the pictures in the first post, I used these two latest Part numbers and specifically inspected them in comparison to the two failed ones that were removed to look for any sign of improvement, modification or strengthening and I noticed no difference at all.

[jonesy63]

I don't know, but you would think perhaps that everything would be operating at lower boost pressures with the single turbo 2.7.

I've searched everywhere and can't find any 2.7L inlet manifold failures/cracking. <Fingers crossed!>

Edit: Plus, the TSB in post 30 by Colin only shows the 3L are affected.

[~Rich~]

Just dropped my D3 off for a swap of fuel tank guard and upper front control arms, questioned the service manager about part # for the intake manifolds and no there has been no updated versions.
It seems that yes turbo boost is the culprit and if your turbo is over boosting or been remapped for more power the result is the cracking manifold issue.
Yes only affects 3.0 engine.

[Graeme]

Thats a bit odd, as you can see in the pictures in the first post, I used these two latest Part numbers and specifically inspected them in comparison to the two failed ones that were removed to look for any sign of improvement, modification or strengthening and I noticed no difference at all.
Did you compare the insides for extra ribs and increased thickness?

[BobD]

Thats a bit odd, as you can see in the pictures in the first post, I used these two latest Part numbers and specifically inspected them in comparison to the two failed ones that were removed to look for any sign of improvement, modification or strengthening and I noticed no difference at all.


Colin,


I didn't see the new and old manifolds. I'm just reporting what my mechanic told me about the difference between the new and the old. He usually knows everything there is to know about Land Rovers so I didn't question him.


It is possible that my car over boosted because he also said that the vacuum hose to the wastegate was broken when they found the manifold problem. Again, I didn't see it and I don't know how it wouldn't get an error if the wastegate wasn't working. I don't even know if our cars have a wastegate, so I am only reporting what he told me.

[Meken]

Sounds like we all need those bogan blow off valves the grey import jap 4 pots have on them .... Rrrmmmm - chssss Rrrmmmmmm- chssssss

[Meken]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn-AoxKQB90

[Grentarc]

It is possible that my car over boosted because he also said that the vacuum hose to the wastegate was broken when they found the manifold problem. Again, I didn't see it and I don't know how it wouldn't get an error if the wastegate wasn't working. I don't even know if our cars have a wastegate, so I am only reporting what he told me.

Not sure about LR, but on my Saab if it detects that the wastegate is not operating properly, it uses the electronic throttle/butterfly to regulate manifold pressure correctly, and logs a silent code. Just wondering if our diesels do similar, seeing as we have an inlet butterfly?

[ozscott]

Does the 2.7 have plastic intake or just 3.0?

Cheers

[~Rich~]

Same part, same part #, there has been no "improved" versions of this manifold. Thats coming from both my mechanic & Trivetts.

It's not an issue with the D3 being a single turbo, it's the extra boost pressure from the secondary turbo on the 3.0 ltr.

[~Rich~]

Colin,

I don't even know if our cars have a wastegate, so I am only reporting what he told me.

Listen to the end of my video for the sound. ;)
https://youtu.be/QyF46v9PXP8

[eddomak]

I just had the cracked manifold happen to my D4 MY10 3.0. [bawl]

Driver's side, 97,000kms (mostly suburban kms), 7.5 years old.

Symptoms - "Restricted Performance" getting more and more frequent, amber engine warning light. Loss of power (as the boost escapes), and eventually no turbo boost at all and can hear gasses escaping under load. When the engine bay is open and the plastic engine cover is removed, there is some soot under a rubber cover (as per photos earlier in thread).

To replace one side it took 1 day's labour and associated parts, which took the bill to around $2200. [bawl]

Thanks for this thread though (which I found after everything else), as it is at least good to hear it is a documented problem. If only someone had also found out that it is all paid for by LR.... ("tell him he's dreamin!").

[Discovered 1 2]

N

[DiscoJeffster]

N

Mmm

[Discovered 1 2]

Mmm

Ha, sorry guys, must have pocket replied.. reading this thread with interest.

[Hungo]

I had the same issue with both my manifolds cracking last year on MY12 3.0 D4 110,000kms. Noticed after i came over the Alpine Way towing a caravan using compression braking. Fault light came up Restricted Performance. Got towed to Albury LR and they spent week replacing just one of the manifolds. Got the car returned to me in Newcastle and a week later it cracked the other manifold...luckily all covered under Extended Warranty.
I didn't see the old or new manifolds so cant comment if they looked any different.

[letherm]

Noticed after i came over the Alpine Way towing a caravan using compression braking.

Pardon my ignorance, but how do you use compression braking? Understand the idea but haven't the foggiest how to do it. I have a D4 MY13 auto.

Martin

[Hungo]

Compression braking - just using the gears manually to hold speed downhill(i.e. hold in 2nd gear), taking some load off the brakes.

[PerthDisco]

Compression braking - just using the gears manually to hold speed downhill(i.e. hold in 2nd gear), taking some load off the brakes.

Probably creates a mighty bit of vacuum in those manifolds also!

[letherm]

Compression braking - just using the gears manually to hold speed downhill(i.e. hold in 2nd gear), taking some load off the brakes.

Yes, I do that already, but I haven't noticed any accompanying sounds like you hear when a semi does it. I know they have a much bigger engine but assumed that there would be something audible to indicate compression braking. Just sounds like gearbox noise to me. [smilebigeye]

Martin

[donh54]

Truck compression braking actually turns off the fuel and alters the valve timing of the engine and turns it into an air compressor.

[trout1105]

Yes, I do that already, but I haven't noticed any accompanying sounds like you hear when a semi does it. I know they have a much bigger engine but assumed that there would be something audible to indicate compression braking. Just sounds like gearbox noise to me. [smilebigeye]

Martin

Trucks have an Exhaust brake which is quite different to only using the engine compression as a brake [thumbsupbig]

[letherm]

Well, you learn something every day. I always thought I was using the gears to slow the car down without realising that I was actually using compression braking. In hindsight I presume that the use of downshifting just limits the top speed of the car to the gear selected. One final point, is the noise I hear the engine or the gearbox or a combination of both?

Martin

[trout1105]

Well, you learn something every day. I always thought I was using the gears to slow the car down without realising that I was actually using compression braking. In hindsight I presume that the use of downshifting just limits the top speed of the car to the gear selected. One final point, is the noise I hear the engine or the gearbox or a combination of both?

Martin

I would say Both.
I can remember back a while where the operating manual in auto cars recommended choosing a lower gear on long descents to avoid cooking the brakes.
Most people with a manual transmission usually select a lower gear on big hills But the vast majority of auto drivers don't for some reason.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Well, you learn something every day. I always thought I was using the gears to slow the car down without realising that I was actually using compression braking. In hindsight I presume that the use of downshifting just limits the top speed of the car to the gear selected. One final point, is the noise I hear the engine or the gearbox or a combination of both?

Martin


actually no. you still have to watch the tacho. The ability to pass redline is still there. Though without serious weight on the back it would have to be a steep hill.

[PerthDisco]

I watched/listened to that 10 min ago and am still chuckling [thumbsupbig]

Thanks cocko

[letherm]

I would say Both.
I can remember back a while where the operating manual in auto cars recommended choosing a lower gear on long descents to avoid cooking the brakes.
Most people with a manual transmission usually select a lower gear on big hills But the vast majority of auto drivers don't for some reason.

I believe that those that do were probably taught how to drive on a manual. I certainly was, long enough ago to be taught double de-clutching to shift down and could successfully change down in a non syncromesh gearbox without crashing the gears. Yes, I know that makes me old.[smilebigeye]

Martin

[letherm]

actually no. you still have to watch the tacho. The ability to pass redline is still there. Though without serious weight on the back it would have to be a steep hill.

Totally agree Pedro. Very aware of not exceeding the redline and brake well before I get there.

Martin

[Tombie]

Sadly too many shove the Auto in D for Dumb and just toddle along!

Not realising The extra functions are there to assist [emoji41]

[Hungo]

Sorry I may have used wrong term calling it compression braking, but the theory is there using motor compression and gearing combined...

Like you letherm I was taught how to drive on a manual (inc the old double clutch...) so have always had the habit of using the gears to save cooking brakes on long descents. Referring to my experience coming over Alipne way, I was towing a Jayco Eagle pop top camper with electric brakes. I didn't red line the motor but balanced between gears and brakes to play it safe in mid range revs, well I thought... Reading other threads on forum, I don't think it was a single cause of the manifolds cracking, but it must have contributed to an already weakened part as it appears many SDV6 owners have had similar failures with the manifolds.

[DiscoJeffster]

Sorry I may have used wrong term calling it compression braking, but the theory is there using motor compression and gearing combined...

Like you letherm I was taught how to drive on a manual (inc the old double clutch...) so have always had the habit of using the gears to save cooking brakes on long descents. Referring to my experience coming over Alipne way, I was towing a Jayco Eagle pop top camper with electric brakes. I didn't red line the motor but balanced between gears and brakes to play it safe in mid range revs, well I thought... Reading other threads on forum, I don't think it was a single cause of the manifolds cracking, but it must have contributed to an already weakened part as it appears many SDV6 owners have had similar failures with the manifolds.

Yes good using the engine to help on descents. As for the manifolds, they’re a substandard quality product unfortunately and are prone to failing no matter how you use the vehicle. No use of the vehicle should cause that issue.

[Tombie]

Certainly not caused by engine braking!
The manifold has negligible/no positive pressure under idle or overrun.

[IvanR]

Just wondering if any one who has suffered a cracked manifold in their 3.0 D4, did Land Rover provide any support in the form of $$$ for the repair.
A mates D4 (2012) has just been diagnosed with this problem and quoted a hefty amount for repair. As has been reported in earlier posts, Land Rover has acknowledged a manufacturing fault with the plastic manifold.

Ivan

[Graeme]

If the belts are nearly due when a manifold needs to be replaced then I suggest a body off exercise and change both manifolds and the belts. Access to the manifolds with the engine in-situ is far from ideal. The manifolds are on their 8th version and having assisted my son over 2 days in changing one of his recently, the only difference is seemingly extra thickness at the edges and improved external strengthening ribs.

[discomatt69]

Is it worth doing the manifolds as preventative maintenance when the belts are done , just bit the bullet and do it all...

[ozscott]

Preventative maintenance indeed. Crazy that it is required.

Cheers

[Grentarc]

Is it worth doing the manifolds as preventative maintenance when the belts are done , just bit the bullet and do it all...I was tossing up the idea when I got my D4 at 160k kms, but decided against it due to the cost of parts.
At 230k kms during my routine underbonnet checks (whenever the bonnet is up I check for the signs of anything that may need replacing/repairing in the near future) I spotted the drivers side manifold had an oil stain the size of a 5c piece.
I started organising the parts required to change both manifolds and within a few weeks had the parts. By this time the crack had extended to about 40mm long, but there were no faults occurring yet.
I am glad I did not change them earlier as I managed another 70k kms before one let go.

[JAYRO]

As I'm looking to buy a D4 at the moment I'm wondering what year the slightly better manifold with ribs / thickness came in? I'm probably looking price wise at 2014 2015 d4's... but could stretch further if it gives me peace of mind.

[Spike The Cat]

Ive been reading this over the last couple days, and with mine hitting the 175k mark im thinking il need to change the manifolds out so i was wondering where evryone is buying theres.. thanks

[Eric SDV6SE]

With mine clocking over 183,000 kms, I’ll be checking my manifolds more thoroughly after reading this very interesting thread.

Touch wood, so far no issues, I regularly check under the engine cover for any signs of this happening.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

I was tossing up the idea when I got my D4 at 160k kms, but decided against it due to the cost of parts.
At 230k kms during my routine underbonnet checks (whenever the bonnet is up I check for the signs of anything that may need replacing/repairing in the near future) I spotted the drivers side manifold had an oil stain the size of a 5c piece.
I started organising the parts required to change both manifolds and within a few weeks had the parts. By this time the crack had extended to about 40mm long, but there were no faults occurring yet.
I am glad I did not change them earlier as I managed another 70k kms before one let go.

Hi Justin

I have a MY10 SE TDV6 3.0L, that has almost done 230k kms... Where did you spot the oil stain? Just so I know what I'm looking for... Any chance of a photo with some sort of arrow/indicator?

Thanks

Rob

[BobD]

Hi Justin

I have a MY10 SE TDV6 3.0L, that has almost done 230k kms... Where did you spot the oil stain? Just so I know what I'm looking for... Any chance of a photo with some sort of arrow/indicator?

Thanks

Rob

If you do start getting a leak the car will throw a Restricted Performance Error when over 2500rpm. If you reset it and keep the revs below 2500 by manually changing gears the car will be drivable to get you out of trouble.

I couldn't even see mine when the guys tried to show me. It is well buried on top of the engine and a lot of stuff has to come off to be able to remove the manifolds. My 2010 model failed at around the mileage you are at.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

If you do start getting a leak the car will throw a Restricted Performance Error when over 2500rpm. If you reset it and keep the revs below 2500 by manually changing gears the car will be drivable to get you out of trouble.

I couldn't even see mine when the guys tried to show me. It is well buried on top of the engine and a lot of stuff has to come off to be able to remove the manifolds. My 2010 model failed at around the mileage you are at.

Hi Bob

Thanks for the info - that was what I expected (removing lots of components)! I haven't had any issues (touch wood), that's why I was interested in Justin's comment regarding seeing an oil stain...

Regards

Rob

[Grentarc]

If you do start getting a leak the car will throw a Restricted Performance Error when over 2500rpm. If you reset it and keep the revs below 2500 by manually changing gears the car will be drivable to get you out of trouble.

I couldn't even see mine when the guys tried to show me. It is well buried on top of the engine and a lot of stuff has to come off to be able to remove the manifolds. My 2010 model failed at around the mileage you are at.

Hi Bob,
Not entirely true as you need to have a significant leak for this to happen - by the time I had replaced the leaking manifold, the split was about 25mm long, oil stain of about the size of my palm and no restricted performance even when overtaking with high revs and load.
The place too look is under the foam surrounding the injectors - my photos are on my other phone, so I will try to upload them later

[LRD414]

There are excellent photos and description on the first few posts of this thread.

Scott

[BobD]

Hi Bob,
Not entirely true as you need to have a significant leak for this to happen - by the time I had replaced the leaking manifold, the split was about 25mm long, oil stain of about the size of my palm and no restricted performance even when overtaking with high revs and load.
The place too look is under the foam surrounding the injectors - my photos are on my other phone, so I will try to upload them later

Yeah I know. I was just trying to show that even with a significant leak the car is certainly driveable if you have a Gap IID to reset it. Therefore there is not the same urgency to get it fixed pre-emptively and if you can check for the crack early on before it gets too big you will have even more time to get it fixed before it causes any problems.

The first I knew was when I got a Restricted Performance error which I reset. It was a few weeks before it got really bad and that was when I discovered that you could keep the revs down and it wouldn't error, so you have a fair of warning to get it fixed.

[DiscoJeffster]

Towing shows it up quick smart. If you can’t make your own smoke tester then you can place two sheets of white paper under the engine cover over the top of each manifold and go for a spirited drive. If there are any leaks you’ll have oil on the white paper.

[DiscoJeffster]

Joy of bloody joys. My drivers side manifold was replaced at 160k km. My passenger side just split at 254k km, having given me a P006A error up a hill. Can see the split.
Going to consider doing this DIY. Anyone on here with some tips? I know the fuel pipes need to be replaced to ensure a good seal. Looks like EGR needs to be freed up to make room. Sigh.

[Graeme]

Having been involved with Justin's RHS recent change, the LHS EGR valve appears not to present the same challenge as the RHS with more clearance between the mounting bracket and the manifold.

Tip: clean all around the manifold thoroughly, perhaps with spray degreaser.

[DiscoJeffster]

Having been involved with Justin's RHS recent change, the LHS EGR valve appears not to present the same challenge as the RHS with more clearance between the mounting bracket and the manifold.

Tip: clean all around the manifold thoroughly, perhaps with spray degreaser.

Thanks Graeme. I took a gander. Looks like I need to remove all the fuel lines to get the rail removed to remove the manifold. Looks like the EGR pipework and secondary polution pipework also needs removal, plus throttle body etc. anything more than that to worry about? I’ve made my shopping list so far. Pretty much a grand just in parts.

[Graeme]

The other side injector pipes don't get touched and whilst Justin had bought a new fuel rail to HP pump pipe, it didn't get fitted because of lack of access to the union on the pump. The balancing pipe also didn't get replaced. We noted that the pipe contact cone is quite soft metal that reshapes well into the fuel rail. Whilst the injector pipes could possibly also reshape satisfactorily, because the injectors are removed their seat angles could easily not match their original position making the union more likely to leak.

It took us a lot of time to extricate the edge of the (RH) manifold from behind the EGR valve bracket, drilling a hole through the bracket to access the bolt head below it then trimming the edge of that hole enough to get clearance to remove the bolt, all with the manifold properly in-situ. We suspected that the instructions should have included removing the EGR valve so inspected the LH EGR bracket for when doing the left side but saw that there hopefully will be clearance.

Justin bought from Duckworths.

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks Graeme. Great tips. I’m finding the manual next to useless tbh. So many diagrams that don’t explain how they got to that point in the first place. I note it talks about removing accessory belts, timing covers and what not but I’m not sure if that’s also applicable. So far I see
EGR coolant crossover needs disconnecting leading to coolant bleed.
EGR injection pipe removal.
Throttle body.
Injector return lines
HP injector lines. You’ve implied the injectors also need removing to remove the manifold. Did you have the injector removal tool?

I’m tempted to just get someone to do it. I can see myself half way through cursing Land Rover and their stupid designs.

[Grentarc]

HP injector lines. You’ve implied the injectors also need removing to remove the manifold. Did you have the injector removal tool?



I did not need the injector removal tool, all I needed was a used injector HP fuel line screwed onto the injector (so that I had a handle to hold onto) and gave it a sharp pull - just make sure you have 3x injector refit kits instead of just the fuel lines - gives you new O rings, injector bracket, fuel pipe and copper washer, for not much more than the pipe by itself.

[Graeme]

Justin didn't remove the cam belt. The manifold can be lifted with the cam belt cover in-situ by keeping the manifold pressed rearwards to allow the front to be lifted clear. It was a bit of a juggle with the 2 of us to get the new manifold back into position.

Very little coolant was lost with the removal of the cross-over pipe.

The throttle body needs to be rotated slightly to R&R. Justin will better remember the technique.

[DiscoJeffster]

Justin didn't remove the cam belt. The manifold can be lifted with the cam belt cover in-situ by keeping the manifold pressed rearwards to allow the front to be lifted clear. It was a bit of a juggle with the 2 of us to get the new manifold back into position.

Very little coolant was lost with the removal of the cross-over pipe.

The throttle body needs to be rotated slightly to R&R. Justin will better remember the technique.

Cheers. Yes I’ve had to replace my throttle body which also cracked / split so have that in hand. Ok well I placed the order for the parts last night so I guess I’ll be having a crack sometime in the coming weeks. Thanks for the advice.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Best of luck, I’m sure with perseverance and patience you will get it done. Sounds like you’ve done the research and got all the right parts. There’s also plenty of support here.

cheers

Eric

[DiscoJeffster]

Started tonight. Oh this is going to be “fun” is an understatement. I can see why some have avoided replacing the balance pipe and pump feed pipe because they’re literally impossible to get out. The pump pipe, undoing off the pump will be a challenge

[DiscoJeffster]

Hi brains trust. Taking pointers on how to remove the injector return connector please. I cannot for the life of me understand how its clipped on and cannot find anything online so far.

cheers

[DiscoJeffster]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/c654c15b115f15989a318ff17f6769d6.jpg

This guy

[DiscoJeffster]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/c654c15b115f15989a318ff17f6769d6.jpg

This guy

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/d3c532118f4054b9bb745f943ba95724.jpg

Easy once you work out how. Slides up releasing the fitting, lol.

[Graeme]

Justin and I were puzzled for some minutes too before discovering the trick. Being plastic we didn't want to force anything.

[DiscoJeffster]

Minutes? I wish. I think I stared and googled for an hour lol.

So manifold in (hopefully rear edge of gasket is seated ok - was a tight squeeze getting it in with me only partially releasing the timing cover (two bolts underneath it).
Tight squeeze getting injector six (rearward) in place.
No comment on the impossible HP rail feed. Clearly need a special spanner for that fitting. New injector kits went in easily.
Left tomorrow with coolant crossover, EGR, throttle body, fan, aux belt, and then I think I’m done.
Then I’ll find out what I ****ed up [emoji23]

[Grentarc]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/d3c532118f4054b9bb745f943ba95724.jpg

Easy once you work out how. Slides up releasing the fitting, lol.I was going to post the trick to releasing them, but before I started typing you put this up - I think we discovered it by fiddling as I could not find anything online, and the WSM was of no use.

[Eric SDV6SE]

. New injector kits went in easily.

Hey DJ,

best of luck, I’m sure it will be fine. I know the feeling though. the feeling of accomplishment when it all works out is worth all effort.

BTW, whats involved with the new injector kit? Is that just new pipes, clamps and o rings? Do you have to re-educate the ecu if you remove the injectors?

Would be interested

Eric

[Grentarc]

Hey DJ,

best of luck, I’m sure it will be fine. I know the feeling though. the feeling of accomplishment when it all works out is worth all effort.

BTW, whats involved with the new injector kit? Is that just new pipes, clamps and o rings? Do you have to re-educate the ecu if you remove the injectors?

Would be interested

EricThe injector kits are new O rings, clamping plates (as they are sprung clamps), copper washers and pipes. No need to tell the ECU anything as all you are doing is pulling it out, and putting it back in the same spot. I found it quite therapeutic cleaning down the injectors and fitting the "refit kits" to them.

[Eric SDV6SE]

The injector kits are new O rings, clamping plates (as they are sprung clamps), copper washers and pipes. No need to tell the ECU anything as all you are doing is pulling it out, and putting it back in the same spot. I found it quite therapeutic cleaning down the injectors and fitting the "refit kits" to them.

Whats a kit cost?

[DiscoJeffster]

Hey DJ,

best of luck, I’m sure it will be fine. I know the feeling though. the feeling of accomplishment when it all works out is worth all effort.

BTW, whats involved with the new injector kit? Is that just new pipes, clamps and o rings? Do you have to re-educate the ecu if you remove the injectors?

Would be interested

Eric

New clamping plates (with fresh curvature to force the injector hard into the cylinder hole under tension), new o-ring for the body and the return fitting, a new copper washer on the base of the injector and finally a new pipe fitting.

In regards to the injectors, nothing needs doing other than putting them back into the same position you took them out of. [emoji106]

[DiscoJeffster]

And she lives again! So far no air, fuel, coolant or oil leaks. Now I’ll change the ARB bushes on the front.

[DiscoJeffster]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/2fc4711e2cf77305fde794fc88e6680e.jpg

[Grentarc]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/2fc4711e2cf77305fde794fc88e6680e.jpgMy split was a little smaller. I still have the original passengers side manifold as it hasn't split yet, but have a brand new one sitting here with all the other associated parts for when it does go.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/835c6b8a154fdd0a2c4f4b2d85a223b2.jpg

[DiscoJeffster]

Mine started small but by the time I got to it, it stretched from one inch to three in no time.
My drivers was done 90,000km ago. I was considering doing both again but fingers crossed the replacement is stronger.

[disco4now]

Looks like my left hand inlet manifold has a small crack, can't really see it but has oil in the right place. 195K. Unusually looks like LHS has gone first. I have been researching the parts. Do these look right, anything else I would need.

LR105956 LHS inlet manifold
LR116732 RHS inlet manifold

LR017436 Injector 1 refit kit with pipe (1 required)
LR017437 Injector 2/5/6 refit kit with pipe (3 required)
LR017438 Injector 3+4 refit kit with pipe (2 required)

LR029132 Cam Cover Gasket (2 required)

2 cam cover kits as below
Cam Cover / Inlet Manifold Fitting Kit 3.0 Tdv6 DA7014

https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/images/DA7014.jpg
right hand or left hand inlet manifold to Discovery 4 - TdV6 3.0 & Range Rover Sport - TdV6 3.0 Contains all seals and gaskets required to fit a right hand or left hand inlet manifold on
Discovery 4 - TdV6 3.0 & Range Rover Sport - TdV6 3.0
Kit contains - 1 x EGR Gasket - LR038333 3 x Lower Injector Seal - LR032818 3 x Injector O Ring - LR022992 3 x Top Injector Seal - LR054612
1 require per manifold

Thanks
Gerry

[DiscoJeffster]

I’ve not used a kit before, instead ordered the parts. I have both the balance pipe and high pressure pump to rail pipe for the LHS at home unused. I’d practically give them away if you really want to use them, but I couldn’t get in there to fit them so reused mine. Yes that’s not advised but I know of many independents who have without issue. I await mine to burn down

[justinc]

Cam cover gaskets are already installed onto the new manifolds/ cam covers.

[GJC]

Thanks for all of the previous posts - very illuminating, but also depressing.

I now have a cracked left valve cover / intake manifold. I have a 2013 D4 SDV6 3.0l . I've got to tow a 3.1 tonne caravan back home (154km) (mostly down-hill). I have tried to make a temporary repair with some epoxy designed for bonding to plastic and rated to 260 degrees C. It may not last all of the way home, but I can always go back to resetting the ECU Errors and crawling up hills in low-range, keeping it under 2500 RPM.

In the process of the temporary repair, I broke off a fragile hose that runs from each valve cover to a T piece. I have temporarily replaced it with some 10mm Air hose. Does anybody know what this hose is called and what it is for? pictures attached

154725154726154727

Cheers,
Greg

[DiscoJeffster]

It’s LR013531.
Mine was broken too. More LR fragile plastic parts [emoji35]

[Tombie]

It’s LR013531.
Mine was broken too. More LR fragile plastic parts [emoji35]

Considering the engines are provided by supplier / manufacturer as a drop in entity it’s hardly a fair comment.

The fact that all manufacturers suffer plastic degradation seems to be overlooked also [emoji3166]

[DiscoJeffster]

Plastic manifold. Fail
Second plastic manifold. Fail.
Plastic throttle body. Fail
Plastic water outlet. Would have failed if I didn’t replace proactively.
Plastic hose. Fail.

In fact most other things have been reasonably reliable. And yes, my mums Golf had a solenoid break that was plastic at 200,000km.

LR’s brand is affected by the quality of the product they sell. That they choose to use inferior products (because they have to as part of the group) is disappointing, but is still their issue ultimately.

[Tombie]

Manifolds are a known and now the latest revision seems to have sorted that. Testing will unfortunately never show the detriment of boost, heat and the ravages of time - hopefully they have that sorted.

Throttle body? How did you kill that?

Hoses and water outlets are service items on any vehicle.
I wouldn’t trust a rubber hose over about 8 years.
And I remember replacing many, many, thermostat housings made of cast alloy in under the time/distance we can get from the plastic unit.

Plastic spigots should always be treated with kid gloves, I remember on my old Fords and Holdens the vacuum lines always broke at the plastic T pieces. And always at the most I opportune moments. Thankfully Adelaide had a 24 hour Auto parts shop on Brighton Road back then so it was just a matter of getting a mate keen to do a drive [emoji41]

[BradC]

I wouldn’t trust a rubber hose over about 8 years.
And I remember replacing many, many, thermostat housings made of cast alloy in under the time/distance we can get from the plastic unit.

The old cast thermostat housings were generally sacrificial, so they were designed to corrode like an anode in place of the rest of the motor.

I've always used about 7 years as a guide to replace hoses and plastic bits. I've had to wind that back on the D3 as frankly I can't afford to replace all the plastic parts/hoses every 7 years. It'd be about half of the engine.

[DiscoJeffster]

Tombie, throttle bodies are not uncommon it would seem. They split where the Y section is glued to the actual servo body. I thought I was special until I checked D3UK and found many other that had had the same problem.

[StewG]

Thank you to all the previous posters, particularly for the inlet manifold pictures. Unfortunately, on a trip from Melbourne to the Gold Coast I spent the last 300km in cripple mode - restricted performance. The only benefit was a reduction in fuel use. I apologise unreservedly to all the cars and trucks that followed me on single lane roads as my MY13 D4 SDV6 exhibited the power of a Morris Minor up the hills. After a visit to a Gold Coast independent, the diagnosis was a cracked inlet manifold. It is the third such failure in as many weeks that the indy has seen. Thank you JLR for such a dodgy design. Maybe I should seek a list of all the other common failures to catch them before any further trips.
So far the problems I have experienced in 3 years are:
1. Sticky rear side door lock - $$$ fixed one, don't care about the other one.
2. Brake pad warning - no squeaks and pads looked good so ignored for a few more thousand kms - $$ to fix broken wire on sensor
3. Cracked inlet manifold - $$$$$ to fix.

1 and 3 really are a JLR warranty issue due to poor design, but ....

[Stuart02]

So to recap:
It's not just the MY2010 vehicles, whatever improvements were made from 2011 on are also failing with time?
There's nothing that can be done in the way of preventative maintenance other than pre-emptively replacing them?
There's no effective bush-mechanic fixes to get one back to civilisation?

Thanks

[DiscoJeffster]

From around 2013 I think they had improved. You can take a bottle of epoxy glue and coat the crack. You might get back like that, or at least progress and reapply.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Its almost like the "crankshaft lottery" us 2 7 and 3.0l owners play...

My 2010 built D4 is on its original manifolds and crank, touch wood no issues with either yet, but enough other issues (batteries, alternators, turboes, LCA's, air comp, struts, door latches, wheel hubs, brake sensors...)

Seems prevention is better than cure....

[BradC]

Seems prevention is better than cure....

"Greetings Professor Falken. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play"

But since I did, I spin that wheel every time I turn the key. You'd think with the vehicle having already done a crank I'd have a better than average probability of not doing another one, but I understand probability.

At least I know I won't do an intake manifold. So there's that.

[DiscoJeffster]

"Greetings Professor Falken. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play"

But since I did, I spin that wheel every time I turn the key. You'd think with the vehicle having already done a crank I'd have a better than average probability of not doing another one, but I understand probability.

At least I know I won't do an intake manifold. So there's that.

Absolutely.

[Grentarc]

Its almost like the "crankshaft lottery" us 2 7 and 3.0l owners play...

My 2010 built D4 is on its original manifolds and crank, touch wood no issues with either yet, but enough other issues (batteries, alternators, turboes, LCA's, air comp, struts, door latches, wheel hubs, brake sensors...)

Seems prevention is better than cure....My MY10 3.0 is on 1 original manifold, original crank and just ticked over 260k kms, I do have a brand new manifold sitting in a box with all associated injector kits for if the other goes.
I am one for preventative maintenance as I swapped out the alternator at around the 210k km mark for a 220A one from the 4.4TDV8 (bit of bracket modification required and overrun pulley needed) before the original died. I have had to replace the AMK compressor reactively, which was something I would prefer to avoid again.
I think the worst failure I have had was the throttle housing delaminating at the join - I was plastic welding it weekly towards the end, and couldn't wait for the new one to arrive as I was running out of base plastic thickness.

[veebs]

Well, I get to join this club too... MY2010 3.0, towing ~1t camper up the coast to Leeman WA we got a loud pop, puff of black smoke, and loud wooshing noise from the right. Code reader, and oil all over the top of the right side of the engine confirm my fear...

Even without the trailer, and very gently getting moving, it throws the restricted performance error, so can’t even reset it (though it does after restarting). I think fuel use has gone up too, but not certain on that.
Annoying to be sure, but impressed that limp home mode still allows us to drive at the speed limit whilst towing (eventually, on the flat). I’m not ‘flooring’ it either.

Booked in to get repaired in a few weeks (he is very busy) and I’m wondering, given the extent of the disassembly required anyway, if there are any other parts ‘easy’ to change whilst in there. Both sides are getting done...

So far I’ve ‘recently’ changed:
Water outlet housing
Alternator
Serpentine belt
Timing belt

Ideas:
The AC compressor has had a whine, but haven’t bothered doing anything other than checking gas level

HPFP I’ve read about, though no symptoms to suggest any issue.

Crank - lol

Change all the rubber hoses?

Turbos?

Oil pump?

11yrs and 200k now, so not upset if I need to spend a few dollars in the engine bay to get another life. Far prefer preventative maintenance spend to a ruined holiday!

[Eric SDV6SE]

[/quote]
Ideas:
The AC compressor has had a whine, but haven’t bothered doing anything other than checking gas level

HPFP I’ve read about, though no symptoms to suggest any issue.

Crank - lol

Change all the rubber hoses?

Turbos?

Oil pump?

11yrs and 200k now, so not upset if I need to spend a few dollars in the engine bay to get another life. Far prefer preventative maintenance spend to a ruined holiday![/QUOTE]

life and km is about right for the plastic manifolds to go. Glad you are getting both done


AC sits down low and needs fan to be removed, but not a bad idea “whilst there”, especially if it’s whining. But this is at the bottom of the engine, not near the manifolds.

hpfp - if it ain’t broke.....

crank - hmmm, lottery, keep the good oil up to it, if it hasn’t gone by now, unlikely that it will (mines at 206,000 and that’s how I’m approaching it.)


turboes - again, it it aint broke, one is easy and can be done body on, the other not so much, body off job. Secondary fixed vane was $4400 to replace, the primary variable vane closer to 10k and was done under warranty).

oil pump- nope.

I’d suggest to get the original injectors flow tested and replaced if they are out of range (they are not serviceable items). The new ones come with the fuel pipes and crush washers.

Also, replace all soft vacuum lines and the connector pieces would be my suggestions

[josh.huber]

Well, I get to join this club too... MY2010 3.0, towing ~1t camper up the coast to Leeman WA we got a loud pop, puff of black smoke, and loud wooshing noise from the right. Code reader, and oil all over the top of the right side of the engine confirm my fear...

Even without the trailer, and very gently getting moving, it throws the restricted performance error, so can’t even reset it (though it does after restarting). I think fuel use has gone up too, but not certain on that.
Annoying to be sure, but impressed that limp home mode still allows us to drive at the speed limit whilst towing (eventually, on the flat). I’m not ‘flooring’ it either.

Booked in to get repaired in a few weeks (he is very busy) and I’m wondering, given the extent of the disassembly required anyway, if there are any other parts ‘easy’ to change whilst in there. Both sides are getting done...

So far I’ve ‘recently’ changed:
Water outlet housing
Alternator
Serpentine belt
Timing belt

Ideas:
The AC compressor has had a whine, but haven’t bothered doing anything other than checking gas level

HPFP I’ve read about, though no symptoms to suggest any issue.

Crank - lol

Change all the rubber hoses?

Turbos?

Oil pump?

11yrs and 200k now, so not upset if I need to spend a few dollars in the engine bay to get another life. Far prefer preventative maintenance spend to a ruined holiday!

Hopefully I don't jinx myself.. but when I did my inlets. I had not heard about the failure of the oil cooler assembly..I would definately have done it while I was there.. Would save so much time and frustration in the future.
Fyi mine is MY 11 3.0l with 250ks

[Sol]

My inlet manifold experiences: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/aulro-s-o-s-and-breakdown-only-/280048-p1247-restricted-performance.html#post3017109

And the TSB: https://disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/17641/LTB00768v2_-_3_0L_TDV6_Valve_Cover_Split_and-or_Cracked.pdf

[connor_95]

The injector kits are new O rings, clamping plates (as they are sprung clamps), copper washers and pipes. No need to tell the ECU anything as all you are doing is pulling it out, and putting it back in the same spot. I found it quite therapeutic cleaning down the injectors and fitting the "refit kits" to them.


New clamping plates (with fresh curvature to force the injector hard into the cylinder hole under tension), new o-ring for the body and the return fitting, a new copper washer on the base of the injector and finally a new pipe fitting.

In regards to the injectors, nothing needs doing other than putting them back into the same position you took them out of. [emoji106]


how did you manage to get No.6 injector out ?

[DiscoJeffster]

how did you manage to get No.6 injector out ?

As per the other thread. That said, I got lucky that on mine they were easy to get out without a slide hammer that time - I recently changed all my injectors for new ones and number 3 was welded solid and needed help

[ATH]

I took out an after market end of warranty cover (Thnx for the advice Darren - Aztech4x4) when my 2016 TDV6 ran out of the original warranty and it's paid off. Air con and front belt tensioner developed noises and I had them changed by Dover Automotive and the insurance (Eric Insurance) picked up the tab of 3.5 grand.
No details on invoice as to what comp was used.
Warranty has further year to run and I feel after Xmas may be the time to start looking at a replacement maybe non Land Rover as for these things to go after just a 107K is disgusting. What else can go wrong? Plenty according to this thread which is a pity as it's a great car to drive.
AlanH.

[Deefa]

Hi all, Just in the process of doing the intakes myself. Maybe I am crazy! Im going to do it slowly over the next week or so to ease out the pain. I have actually bought the non genuine intakes from Bearmach. Pretty cheap but hopefully they will last OK. Im considering moving the car on anyway as its now 10 years old and starting to have issues. Cost was around $500 for both manifolds including delivery which was very quick considering I ordered them two days before Christmas and got it on the 29Th of DEC! SO far I have done 2 hrs of disassembly noting where everything goes and taking lots of pics. The RHS looks pretty daunting with the EGR in the way. Does the fuel rail have to be removed or can it just be loosened enough to remove the manifolds?

[josh.huber]

I took my rails off.

[Deefa]

Getting there with this mission. I could not work out how to get the fuel rail bolt out on the driver side, as the thread was too long and fowled on the EGR. So i cut it off with a hacksaw blade. Slowly! What a stupid design. I'm now 9 hrs in and have one inlet off. Woohoo. These cars are so ridiculously complex. Pipes and wiring everywhere. Some of the pipes are so brittle that touching them snaps them off. Everything is plastic and brittle after 10 years.

[josh.huber]

Getting there with this mission. I could not work out how to get the fuel rail bolt out on the driver side, as the thread was too long and fowled on the EGR. So i cut it off with a hacksaw blade. Slowly! What a stupid design. I'm now 9 hrs in and have one inlet off. Woohoo. These cars are so ridiculously complex. Pipes and wiring everywhere. Some of the pipes are so brittle that touching them snaps them off. Everything is plastic and brittle after 10 years.

I think it was jeffster who told me to put a bit of sealant on the new gaskets in the corners. The info should be in this thread.. It can be a big job, be gentle, take photos, stop and have a beer

[DiscoJeffster]

I think it was jeffster who told me to put a bit of sealant on the new gaskets in the corners. The info should be in this thread.. It can be a big job, be gentle, take photos, stop and have a beer

Correct. Learn from my mistake. Where the cover goes over the cam at the rear, apply gasket sealant into the corners to avoid oil leaks - like I caused when I did mine.

[Deefa]

Thanks for the tip. I'll do that. It's a bit daunting when everything is apart but I have been taking lots of pics, so it should go back together okay.

[Discodicky]

Just had a re-read of the Service Bulletin regarding these cracked inlet manifolds. The narrative says that they were not made to specification. This suggests that their manufacturer did not make them to Land Rover's design specs.
I take this as being it was a company other than LR.
Interesting.
I'd love to know the difference (if any?) between Genuine and OEM etc as the genuine ones are twice the price.

[PerthDisco]

Getting there with this mission. I could not work out how to get the fuel rail bolt out on the driver side, as the thread was too long and fowled on the EGR. So i cut it off with a hacksaw blade. Slowly! What a stupid design. I'm now 9 hrs in and have one inlet off. Woohoo. These cars are so ridiculously complex. Pipes and wiring everywhere. Some of the pipes are so brittle that touching them snaps them off. Everything is plastic and brittle after 10 years.

Redo all that snap crackle pop wiring harness protection with cloth harness tape to finish off to save it endlessly falling off into every nook and cranny.

[Deefa]

Yes I wondered what all that cloth tape was everywhere. It must just get hot and fall off. Where the manifolds crack it's impossible to see the inside, but they are very thin on the original ones. Tapping on the new ones (the bearmach non genuine) in the same place they do sound thicker but hard to say. Other than that the aftermarket ones look well made and identical to the genuine original ones.

[Deefa]

Even if they are the same the genuine ones lasted 170 K so if it lasts another 170 K I'll be happy.

[scarry]

Just had a re-read of the Service Bulletin regarding these cracked inlet manifolds. The narrative says that they were not made to specification. This suggests that their manufacturer did not make them to Land Rover's design specs.
I take this as being it was a company other than LR.
Interesting.
I'd love to know the difference (if any?) between Genuine and OEM etc as the genuine ones are twice the price.

They would definitely not be made to the correct spec,thats why so many are failing.

Being a Ford designed and built engine,wouldnt they be made to Ford specs?
I would be surprised if LR had a different spec for the manifolds.

[Eric SDV6SE]

For the sake of 1800 bucks drive in drive out and piece of mind, I had both sides replaced with genuine after the passenger side popped after 215000km or so. Should be good for another 200,000km, plus someone else had the skinned knuckles from the replacement work. And 12 months warranty on the parts and labour.

[Deefa]

For the sake of 1800 bucks drive in drive out and piece of mind, I had both sides replaced with genuine after the passenger side popped after 215000km or so. Should be good for another 200,000km, plus someone else had the skinned knuckles from the replacement work. And 12 months warranty on the parts and labour.

I wish I could get it done for $1800! I got quoted $3400 plus anything else they found. Main drama was they could not do it until the end of February.

[Moggymitch]

I wish I could get it done for $1800! I got quoted $3400 plus anything else they found. Main drama was they could not do it until the end of February.
Managed to get our cracked left manifold replaced around Christmas for under $3k and had planned to get the other side replaced in February as part of the next service when the indie had more time. As luck would have it only got 250km’s and the other side has cracked.

[Deefa]

Managed to get our cracked left manifold replaced around Christmas for under $3k and had planned to get the other side replaced in February as part of the next service when the indie had more time. As luck would have it only got 250km’s and the other side has cracked.
Oh damn, sorry to hear that. It's easier to do both at the one time. The RHS is a bit more restrictive. I can see why they charge as much as they do. Every part of the job is a pain for access. It's not that difficult really If you take your time. Mind you I have not finished yet!

[Deefa]

Hi there all,

I just thought I would update this post so that others doing this job in the future would have some tips. I have had the manifolds fitted for about 6 weeks or so and they are so far working fine. While I still remember here is some things I found

The LHS is much easier.
I had to make up a tool to remove the fan- To hold the pulley, LH thread on the fan.
The cast brackets to hold the EGR valve on must come out. On the RHS I had to cut the bolt off. (you'll know what I mean when you get to it)
Take lots of photos
Make sure the injectors go back in the same place
Fuel lines in my experience dont need to be renewed. But the workshop manual does say they do. The one that goes across the back seems impossible to remove.
Pull the bolts out of the manifold with a long nose pliers before you take the manifolds off.
Be really careful to not drop something inside the engine- cover holes with rags.
Removing the fuel return lines is a bit hard to work out, but a previous post on this thread shoes how. I used a little pick tool to flip them up.
The injectors will come out with a bit of a twist. The one right at the back looks like it will not come out but it just does. Put a little vasoline on the ends to hold the new washers on as you refit. I didnt order new O rings for the injectors as I didnt know I needed them. Took a little risk and reused the old ones. Again lubricate with vasoline.
Clean the injector ports with a long brush and air pressure
Glue the gasket on to the manifold as it will just keep slipping off and not seating correctly. - I used a few drops of superglue.
Sealer to the corners of the hump part of he head as it can leak.
I had to bleed the fuel system about 6 times before it started. Was getting worried I did something wrong. Eventually fired.

Lots of patience and time is required.

Have fun.

[southseas]

I got the dreaded limp mode and p006a. I removed the cover and had a squizz, a small amount of oil on the underside of the cover and on the inlet manifold - no visible crack though. Did notice that the crankcase breather has snapped near to the RHS manifold. Hoping it's just that!

[DiscoJeffster]

I got the dreaded limp mode and p006a. I removed the cover and had a squizz, a small amount of oil on the underside of the cover and on the inlet manifold - no visible crack though. Did notice that the crankcase breather has snapped near to the RHS manifold. Hoping it's just that!

It’s not that. If you can’t smoke test it yourself then do this. Get some A4 paper and place three sheets. One each above the manifolds and one above the throttle body. Place the cover back on over the paper. Take it for a good hard drive. Remove cover and check for and oil spray on the paper. You should have found the culprit.

[Redrex]

Hi there all,

I just thought I would update this post so that others doing this job in the future would have some tips. I have had the manifolds fitted for about 6 weeks or so and they are so far working fine. While I still remember here is some things I found

The LHS is much easier.
I had to make up a tool to remove the fan- To hold the pulley, LH thread on the fan.
The cast brackets to hold the EGR valve on must come out. On the RHS I had to cut the bolt off. (you'll know what I mean when you get to it)
Take lots of photos
Make sure the injectors go back in the same place
Fuel lines in my experience dont need to be renewed. But the workshop manual does say they do. The one that goes across the back seems impossible to remove.
Pull the bolts out of the manifold with a long nose pliers before you take the manifolds off.
Be really careful to not drop something inside the engine- cover holes with rags.
Removing the fuel return lines is a bit hard to work out, but a previous post on this thread shoes how. I used a little pick tool to flip them up.
The injectors will come out with a bit of a twist. The one right at the back looks like it will not come out but it just does. Put a little vasoline on the ends to hold the new washers on as you refit. I didnt order new O rings for the injectors as I didnt know I needed them. Took a little risk and reused the old ones. Again lubricate with vasoline.
Clean the injector ports with a long brush and air pressure
Glue the gasket on to the manifold as it will just keep slipping off and not seating correctly. - I used a few drops of superglue.
Sealer to the corners of the hump part of he head as it can leak.
I had to bleed the fuel system about 6 times before it started. Was getting worried I did something wrong. Eventually fired.

Lots of patience and time is required.

Have fun.

Just curious, why did you need to remove fan? I did mine a few months ago and found no need to remove fan etc. Just loosened removed the bolts that attach to the inlet manifold/timing covers and was able to pop cover out a little and remove manifold. Saves a fair bit of work.

Got through the rest OK though. Like you say - take your time and lots of photos. Wasnt as bad as I thought it would be, though I did have a stuck injector and eneded up having to use an injector puller to remove (Drivers side - closest to front of car)

I didnt have issues with gasket dropping out so didnt glue it. But did do the sealer on the inside corners of the humps.

Took a couple goes to start like you say, but all good and no leaks :-)

[southseas]

It’s not that. If you can’t smoke test it yourself then do this. Get some A4 paper and place three sheets. One each above the manifolds and one above the throttle body. Place the cover back on over the paper. Take it for a good hard drive. Remove cover and check for and oil spray on the paper. You should have found the culprit.

Thanks mate. Hmm I just fitted that new breather line and it seems to have come good? Iidtool no faults, gave it stick too. I'm still not 100% confident though.

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks mate. Hmm I just fitted that new breather line and it seems to have come good? Iidtool no faults, gave it stick too. I'm still not 100% confident though.

Give it a week. Those hoses fail on all cars and don’t generally cause a fault. They rot away.

[southseas]

Give it a week. Those hoses fail on all cars and don’t generally cause a fault. They rot away.

Didn't have to wait that long! Came on then. Bugger

[DiscoJeffster]

Didn't have to wait that long! Came on then. Bugger

Don’t say I didn’t tell you so. Now go and try my trick and we can go from there.

[southseas]

Don’t say I didn’t tell you so. Now go and try my trick and we can go from there.

Hope is a dangerous thing. Will be in at Tickel's next week!

[DazzaTD5]

You don't need to smoke test it, the black crud that seeps out of the crack is very obvious, look under the engine cover, its likely to be black as well.
Obviously when it fault codes thats a clue as well.

Just as a side note, I have seen the cheap alibaba ones (i think for $130 a pair) pretty thin and hollow, apparently only lasted 10K before splitting again [tonguewink]

While I'm no genuine fan boi, the genuine ones are the go, so at least you get what? another 100K [tonguewink]

P.S the thin breather lines that T piece in the centre of the engine can be deleted and blanked off as the new manifold does not have a through hole.

[southseas]

You don't need to smoke test it, the black crud that seeps out of the crack is very obvious, look under the engine cover, its likely to be black as well.
Obviously when it fault codes thats a clue as well.

Just as a side note, I have seen the cheap alibaba ones (i think for $130 a pair) pretty thin and hollow, apparently only lasted 10K before splitting again [tonguewink]

While I'm no genuine fan boi, the genuine ones are the go, so at least you get what? another 100K [tonguewink]

P.S the thin breather lines that T piece in the centre of the engine can be deleted and blanked off as the new manifold does not have a through hole.

Thanks mate, good info - spewing i paid the 100 for the breather now! I'm going to get both done (genuine). $$$$$ but long term gain! this is at 160k km.

[ontheway]

120k RRS. I have read the threads but seeking a sanity check. Restricted performance, loss of power starting at 1800 RPM and a whooshing noise that certainly sounds like compressed air.
IIDTool fails to scan faults on the latest version of Android out this week so I can't even try out the advanced fault settings:(

Oil traces seem to suggest split manifold or is there something else I can check?

Thanks




180782

[Eric SDV6SE]

120k RRS. I have read the threads but seeking a sanity check. Restricted performance, loss of power starting at 1800 RPM and a whooshing noise that certainly sounds like compressed air.
IIDTool fails to scan faults on the latest version of Android out this week so I can't even try out the advanced fault settings:(

Oil traces seem to suggest split manifold or is there something else I can check?

Thanks




180782
Yup, spilt manifold

[ama45]

Hi all, I just wanted to update this thread as it has been an excellent source of information, and it helped me quickly diagnose my split manifold.

I’m currently travelling from Cairns to Brisbane, towing a big van. I’ve got a 2012 SDV6 RRS. 100km out of Townsville I get the restricted performance light. Pushed on at 70km/h to Townsville. By the time we got there the whooshing sound was louder, and the orange engine light had also come on.

It was a Sunday, so no mechanics open, so went to SuperCheap and picked up a code reader. Confirmed the P006A code, and started searching this forum, leading me to this post. Went straight to the offending area and confirmed the crack.

Not wanting to be stranded in Townsville over Christmas I decided to try a temporary repair. I removed the fuel lines to get better access to the crack, then cleaned the area using plumbers pipe cleaner. I covered the crack with an epoxy resin, the 5min set time variety with a 3500psi rating. Not pretty, but it worked.

That repair got us to Bowen, but the epoxy resin was brittle, and cracked through. I chipped it off, recleaned and sanded the area, and reapplied the epoxy, but this time I added some fibreglass cloth for strength. That did the trick, and got us back to Brisbane. I’m now looking at doing a full repair of both manifolds, and will also cover off all the hoses and plastics while I’m at it.

Anyone know if a good indie in Brisbane?

Cheers

[BradC]

Nicely handled.

I was into the JBWeld catalogue the other day and spotted this :
https://www.repco.com.au/en/car-care-panel/adhesives-sealants/sealants/jb-weld-radiatorweld-plastic-tank-radiator-repair-kit-2120/p/A5349544

Epoxy and fibreglass in a nice "toolkit" sized packet. My first thought was, "that might be handy for 3.0 owners".

[SimmAus]

Agree..nicely done

LR Time did a video on this and also mentioned JB Weld and an old beer can (cut up after drinking)

[BradC]

Agree..nicely done

LR Time did a video on this and also mentioned JB Weld and an old beer can (cut up after drinking)

JB Weld can be hard to get to adhere well to an aluminium can. You need to smear the epoxy on, then use a knife to scrape the oxide off the aluminium *through* the epoxy to prevent it re-forming. That lets the epoxy get a good grip on the metal. Otherwise what tends to happen is the epoxy keys to the oxide which eventually falls off under mechanical strain.

But, yeah I can see how that would work.

[Deefa]

Hi all, I just wanted to update this thread as it has been an excellent source of information, and it helped me quickly diagnose my split manifold.

I’m currently travelling from Cairns to Brisbane, towing a big van. I’ve got a 2012 SDV6 RRS. 100km out of Townsville I get the restricted performance light. Pushed on at 70km/h to Townsville. By the time we got there the whooshing sound was louder, and the orange engine light had also come on.

It was a Sunday, so no mechanics open, so went to SuperCheap and picked up a code reader. Confirmed the P006A code, and started searching this forum, leading me to this post. Went straight to the offending area and confirmed the crack.

Not wanting to be stranded in Townsville over Christmas I decided to try a temporary repair. I removed the fuel lines to get better access to the crack, then cleaned the area using plumbers pipe cleaner. I covered the crack with an epoxy resin, the 5min set time variety with a 3500psi rating. Not pretty, but it worked.

That repair got us to Bowen, but the epoxy resin was brittle, and cracked through. I chipped it off, recleaned and sanded the area, and reapplied the epoxy, but this time I added some fibreglass cloth for strength. That did the trick, and got us back to Brisbane. I’m now looking at doing a full repair of both manifolds, and will also cover off all the hoses and plastics while I’m at it.

Anyone know if a good indie in Brisbane?




Cheers

Damn, Nothing worse on your holidays than a car breakdown. Good bush mechanic trick though. Most people these days seem to have no idea and call a tilt tray.

[StewG]

Commiserations ama45 and you coped well with the temporary fix! My D4 RH intake manifold cracked 300km short of our Gold Coast destination. back in 2019. We limped all the way and got it fixed by an indie in Nerang. The LH side cracked in April 2022 as we were approaching Wilsons Prom in Victoria towing a van. Camped for a few days and then limped home to Melbourne where another indie fixed it. Thanks be to LR :thumbsdown:

[DazzaTD5]

A cracked manifold on a 3.0 wont strand an owner anywhere.
If you drive it so your foot is not to the floor it wont fault.
I just had a D4 owner (on holiday from N.T) drive from Kalgoolie to Perth with a cracked manifold with no issues.
In fact the only issue was finding someone open and willing to do the job a few days before xmas, I guess that was me.

[DiscoJeffster]

A cracked manifold on a 3.0 wont strand an owner anywhere.
If you drive it so your foot is not to the floor it wont fault.
I just had a D4 owner (on holiday from N.T) drive from Kalgoolie to Perth with a cracked manifold with no issues.
In fact the only issue was finding someone open and willing to do the job a few days before xmas, I guess that was me.

Well not completely correct. Mine split four inches and trying to get the car from Exmouth to Perth was awful. With the hills near Geraldton, towing a trailer, it was impossible for it not to drop into restricted performance. I was resetting live while driving and ended up stuck doing 60kph through that stretch. It was impossible to get up the hills without it faulting. Sure, I could continue, but at a slow pace. I pulled over a lot to let people pass.

[DazzaTD5]

Well not completely correct. Mine split four inches and trying to get the car from Exmouth to Perth was awful. With the hills near Geraldton, towing a trailer, it was impossible for it not to drop into restricted performance. I was resetting live while driving and ended up stuck doing 60kph through that stretch. It was impossible to get up the hills without it faulting. Sure, I could continue, but at a slow pace. I pulled over a lot to let people pass.

Whaaaa? what what??? hills I never mentioned anything about hills.... you have me all wrong... [tonguewink]

[fourteen8]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/d3c532118f4054b9bb745f943ba95724.jpg

Easy once you work out how. Slides up releasing the fitting, lol.

Do you mind circle it ? I am planning to replace mine as it has cracked and confirmed with smoked test as well. Trying to get as much info as I can to replace it. Thanks

[DiscoJeffster]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240213/40c8a421acbdf9a76642d1c9cd7d0b80.jpg
The connector with its head lifted up

[Gravy]

If you want to identify a cracked manifold hook up a 2 tonne load behind your vehicle and take it for a trot. Reduced performance will be almost apparent immediately. For the non initiated dont let the stealers convince its a body off repair, find the right mechanic and the RH side is done and dusted in 5 hours even after sunset in the driveway.

[Jonno17]

I’ve just been quoted $9k by Blacklocks Land Rover (Albury) to replace both intake manifolds and the throttle body. I have the trifecta of dodgy Land Rover plastic bits..

Does this seem at all like a reasonable quote, they are saying more than 6k in parts and 15hours labour?

My only other option would be to try Clarke Automotive in Wodonga..

[loanrangie]

I’ve just been quoted $9k by Blacklocks Land Rover (Albury) to replace both intake manifolds and the throttle body. I have the trifecta of dodgy Land Rover plastic bits..

Does this seem at all like a reasonable quote, they are saying more than 6k in parts and 15hours labour?

My only other option would be to try Clarke Automotive in Wodonga..Wow what an absolute rip off, in no way is that a reasonable quote.
Shouldn't even be half of that.

[DiscoJeffster]

That’s insane prices mate. About $2k in the going price for most places give or take $500.

Adding in the throttle body, which has to be removed and replaced to do the manifolds anyway, so part only cost is around $500.

I’d not spend more than $2500 for the work

[DieselLSE]

Talk to British Automotive in Romsey, central Vic. That's where I take my D4 for stuff I can't do myself.
www.britishautomotive.com.au
Romsey British Automotive (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=5ecc24ba62894450JmltdHM9MTcxMDM3NDQwMCZpZ3VpZD0x MGIwNGFkOS1hMzYxLTZhMmUtMWNlMi01OTFkYTI5YzZiOWQmaW 5zaWQ9NTQ2Mw&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=10b04ad9-a361-6a2e-1ce2-591da29c6b9d&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20vYWxpbmsvbGluaz91cm w9aHR0cHMlM2ElMmYlMmZ3d3cuYnJpdGlzaGF1dG9tb3RpdmUu Y29tLmF1JTJmJnNvdXJjZT1zZXJwLWxvY2FsJmg9RzZWWnQ0Mn h3YXNiWHVpTGVvUnUzd0VObE0lMmZHbHdpbms1UGpoYXVJS3Aw JTNkJnA9bHdfZ2J0JmlnPUIxRDQ5RDkxQkIyMzQ1OTQ4QjA5Qj REN0FEQzUxQTg4JnlwaWQ9WU4zNzI0eDIzMjczMjc1NzE4ODA0 MzAwNzQ&ntb=1)

3 Mitchell Crt, Romsey Victoria 3434 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=eafd51f1cf4e8966JmltdHM9MTcxMDM3NDQwMCZpZ3VpZD0x MGIwNGFkOS1hMzYxLTZhMmUtMWNlMi01OTFkYTI5YzZiOWQmaW 5zaWQ9NTQ2NA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=10b04ad9-a361-6a2e-1ce2-591da29c6b9d&u=a1L21hcHM_Jm1lcGk9MTA5fn5Ub3BPZlBhZ2V-QWRkcmVzc19MaW5rJnR5PTE4JnE9Um9tc2V5JTIwQnJpdGlzaC UyMEF1dG9tb3RpdmUmc3M9eXBpZC5ZTjM3MjR4MjMyNzMyNzU3 MTg4MDQzMDA3NCZwcG9pcz0tMzcuMzU0MjI4OTczMzg4NjdfMT Q0Ljc0ODEwNzkxMDE1NjI1X1JvbXNleSUyMEJyaXRpc2glMjBB dXRvbW90aXZlX1lOMzcyNHgyMzI3MzI3NTcxODgwNDMwMDc0fi ZjcD0tMzcuMzU0MjI5fjE0NC43NDgxMDgmdj0yJnNWPTEmRk9S TT1NUFNSUEw&ntb=1)
(03) 5429 5021 (tel:0354295021)

[veebs]

Get them to change the (also plastic) cooling outlet whilst they are in there :-)

[Jonno17]

Quoted $5k from Romsey British Automotive, that’s for a set of aluminium manifolds and a genuine throttle body. + $1k to tow to from Albury, still $3k and -2 plastic bits in the clear.. still seems like a lot. But that’s about 3k worth of parts and 15hours labour

[loanrangie]

I wouldn't touch those alloy manifolds, the updated plastic ones will likely outlast the vehicle - the alloys are still very much unknown.

[Jonno17]

Lads in Romsey swapped out the cracked manifolds for alloy ones, will see how they go. Couldn’t find anything wrong with the throttle body, but the O ring on the left side of the Y was pinched. $3.3k all up. Much better than the $9-11k blacklocks Land Rover wanted in Albury.

However! Got it back home to Mt Beauty yesterday, and it’s smoking out the left side of the engine bay, smells like diesel.. there’s an oil leak too, unsure if related, I thought it might’ve been from the blacklocks monkeys over tightening the oil filter housing, as there’s a lot of oil in the casting valleys on top of the oil cooler, torqued it to spec but doesn’t seem to have fixed the problem. Any ideas?

[DiscoJeffster]

Lads in Romsey swapped out the cracked manifolds for alloy ones, will see how they go. Couldn’t find anything wrong with the throttle body, but the O ring on the left side of the Y was pinched. $3.3k all up. Much better than the $9-11k blacklocks Land Rover wanted in Albury.

However! Got it back home to Mt Beauty yesterday, and it’s smoking out the left side of the engine bay, smells like diesel.. there’s an oil leak too, unsure if related, I thought it might’ve been from the blacklocks monkeys over tightening the oil filter housing, as there’s a lot of oil in the casting valleys on top of the oil cooler, torqued it to spec but doesn’t seem to have fixed the problem. Any ideas?

Not uncommon for the injector leak off fuel line to get a leak, especially if it’s just been mucked with like yours has. Also could be a fuel line not sealing correctly as they will be been removed and likely refitted (not replaced as per factory recommendation).

As for oil leak, you’ll need to do some detective work to see if it’s related. Could be a snagged gasket, not using gasket silicone on the cam caps, or might be a fault with the alloy cover not sitting well [emoji2373][emoji2373][emoji2373]

[PerthDisco]

Recently changed the hpfp and took a week to resolve a small fuel leak by loosening, reseating and retightening the fuel connections. It’s why LR recommends single use only. The trick is to spend a bit of time finding what’s leaking which is not easy. Clean up with contact cleaner spray.

I’d say they removed the oil filter too fast or too soon after turning off and dumped heaps of oil in the valley.

I’ve used degreaser and very carefully aimed water to wash out valley with car on uphill slope. There’s no electrics below the glow plugs and it washes out the back.

[Jonno17]

Thanks for the advice, I couldn’t figure it out, so called them back. Unfortunate that the work wasn’t quite right when I got it home, but they are sending a tow truck to come pick it up and will drop it back once it’s done correctly. Pretty great service from British Automotive in Romsey, pretty big tow from Mt Beauty to Romsey and back, thank you to whoever recommended them.

[p38arover]

I was at KLR Automotive today and noticed they were photographing aluminium replacement inlet manifolds for the 3.0 engine. Pix to go in their next newsletter (and on their website). I did ask about price. Not cheap but I dunno what replacement plastic ones cost.

I did write down the part nos. but can’t find the scrap of paper. 😩

[Yagimonki]

Mine has p006a00 fault and I diagnosed with dishwashing fluid, makes easily observed bubbling, no smoke machine required.

I've ordered the Ali manifold. Ironically previous owner has replaced coolant bypass underneath but in plastic, last year.

Getting ready to do job, but what else do I need prior to starting ? Injector puller and seal kit for injectors?

[loanrangie]

I was at KLR Automotive today and noticed they were photographing aluminium replacement inlet manifolds for the 3.0 engine. Pix to go in their next newsletter (and on their website). I did ask about price. Not cheap but I dunno what replacement plastic ones cost.

I did write down the part nos. but can’t find the scrap of paper. 😩

Its been mentioned before, they come from the great xerox land so who knows what the quality is like. The latest version plastic ones have so far fixed the issue of splitting so not sure i would be risking the unknown.

[p38arover]

They looked to be good quality.

[loanrangie]

They looked to be good quality.

They may well be but too early to tell.

[DiscoJeffster]

They may well be but too early to tell.

Well not really. They have been fitted to many cars now. What do you need from it - the rubber seal to fit and for them not to leak oil. Not much else to go wrong with an aluminium casting.

[loanrangie]

Well not really. They have been fitted to many cars now. What do you need from it - the rubber seal to fit and for them not to leak oil. Not much else to go wrong with an aluminium casting.

Its not just the seal its how well they are made and how they handle the heat cycling of the engine, i have not seen one person on any of the FB groups or forums that have actually fitted them yet for real feedback.

[DiscoJeffster]

Its not just the seal its how well they are made and how they handle the heat cycling of the engine, i have not seen one person on any of the FB groups or forums that have actually fitted them yet for real feedback.

There is one guy who is a service agent who is fitting them for customers and has had no issues. There was another guy who fitted them recently successfully.

[loanrangie]

There is one guy who is a service agent who is fitting them for customers and has had no issues. There was another guy who fitted them recently successfully.

Found 2 on Disco3 but only 3 months in or so, i'll reserve my judgment once they've done 12 months or more.

[Discodicky]

There is one guy who is a service agent who is fitting them for customers and has had no issues. There was another guy who fitted them recently successfully.

FWIW I know of one in Hobart with around 8,000 klms so we now know they'll last at least THAT long! [bigrolf]

I saw them prior fitment and they look good and nicely made.

Worth a try I think, assuming price is ok.