Mitch Hitch

[disconerd]

Hi All

Could anyone please confirm if a Mitch Hitch for Discovery 3 will fit onto a Discovery 4.

Cheers

Peter

[LandyAndy]

Somebody posted the other day they had to use a die grinder on their D4 to make the hitch fit.Unsure if it was a new hitch or a D3 item.
How much is a new hitch tagged to suit a D4 compared to the advertised D3 $300 hitch????
Its sometning I need to buy into the future when I complete my camper trailer.
Thanks
Andrew

[Narangga]

Having put mine on last weekend the die grinder is needed for both D3 & D4 - even though the instructions say D4 only.

AFAIK there is only one hitch and it fits both D3 & D4.

[lambrover]

I bought a Mitch hitch recently and from memory the hitch will fit a either. Mine is for a RRS. There is a hitch that looks like the Mitch hitch but it's a copy, a guy who used to make it for mitchell bros has used the design from memory, so do the right thing and buy of the designer not a thief.

[disconerd]

Hi Andrew

Aaron from Mitch Hitch just replied and he informed me that they do fit.
He will have stock in 2 weeks and they are $730.00 new.

I have just bought the one for sale on here.

Cheers

Peter

[LandyAndy]

Hi Andrew

Aaron from Mitch Hitch just replied and he informed me that they do fit.
He will have stock in 2 weeks and they are $730.00 new.

I have just bought the one for sale on here.

Cheers

Peter

Good buy!!!!
ENJOY
Andrew

[kelvo]

Website here Mitchell Bros Hi-Rise Tow Hitch – Mitchell Brothers 4x4 & More (http://www.mitchhitch.com.au/products/mitch-hitch?variant=7273621059)

[Melbourne Park]

I bought a Mitch hitch recently and from memory the hitch will fit a either. Mine is for a RRS. There is a hitch that looks like the Mitch hitch but it's a copy, a guy who used to make it for mitchell bros has used the design from memory, so do the right thing and buy of the designer not a thief.

IF it was made in China, I'd agree. But its Australian, and I call that free enterprise and just healthy competition. And there are other ones esdies as well ...

I think $730 plus shipping - is theft too!!! The reason I am interested, is when I go off road with the tow bar on (the land rover one circa 2015) I don't want to gouge the tracks I might go over. For $730, I might get the spade out and fill in a gouge or two ...

Doug

[Guppy]

I took mine from my D3 and it fitted without any modification to my D4 - this was 5 years ago so unless the design has changed, it should be fine

[lambrover]

IF it was made in China, I'd agree. But its Australian, and I call that free enterprise and just healthy competition. And there are other ones esdies as well ...

I think $730 plus shipping - is theft too!!! The reason I am interested, is when I go off road with the tow bar on (the land rover one circa 2015) I don't want to gouge the tracks I might go over. For $730, I might get the spade out and fill in a gouge or two ...

Doug
Why does it matter if its made in China. Ripping some ones design off is still ripping some ones design off regardless of where its built. Its not healthy at all to steal intellectual property, it slows progress and development, why be the bugger to put time and effort into RnD if a third party can replicate your product with out the over heads ???

[Mungus]

And it's not even that good of a replica. Sits about an inch lower. I don't think it would be that easy to split the sockets cover and refit, due to the wider lower flange. I reckon with all the gussets on it, it's just big and ugly.
Mitch Hitch for me. Much neater. Even more so now with the new ones losing the top gusset.

[ADMIRAL]

Why does it matter if its made in China. Ripping some ones design off is still ripping some ones design off regardless of where its built. Its not healthy at all to steal intellectual property, it slows progress and development, why be the bugger to put time and effort into RnD if a third party can replicate your product with out the over heads ???

Ditto to that !

[Melbourne Park]

Why does it matter if its made in China. Ripping some ones design off is still ripping some ones design off regardless of where its built. Its not healthy at all to steal intellectual property, it slows progress and development, why be the bugger to put time and effort into RnD if a third party can replicate your product with out the over heads ???

The normal way is to make profits while a product is new; then when competition appears, you have to add marketing costs and you loose profit margins. But you make money from continuing research into other areas and hence introducing new products which are more profitable.

When a company has a Cash Cow, then such products or services are golden, but IMO I want to pay for good quality and functionality rather than pay a premium for a good design that occurred some considerable time ago.

If you cannot patent a design, then you're going to have to compete by another means. That's what free enterprise is all about. As an example, there are tyre treads from some companies that resemble tread patterns from other companies. Innovations and improvements on alls sorts of technologies in motor vehicles cross from one brand to another.

China is questionable for many reasons - I think its too off topic. I've been an agent for several overseas companies for decades, including Taiwanese and Chinese (and Swiss, German and Italian), and I'd have little trust for Chinese steel for a tow bar, because of the practice of Chinese business's to outsource, and the way they source their materials, which can be very ad-hoc. As far as the workmanship goes of metal goods, I have much more faith in Australian than Chinese.

I'd have expected something like a Hitch to be good value if made by the original designer, whose made many before, and hence has worked out how to make it efficiently. That I read about requiring a grinder to fit a $730 Hitch to a recent Disco, I also question how current the design is.

[Redback]

Just to clear some things up, the Mitch Hitch was designed by Mitchell Bros in Brookvale(northern beaches of Sydney) they are using a new manufacturer with a slightly different design, apparently some of the old design were failing, hence the new design.

Now the original manufacturer are still making the old design for someone else, this is the copy that people are talking about.

This is what I have been told.

[Melbourne Park]

Thanks Baz.

Doug

[LRD414]

..... requiring a grinder to fit a $730 Hitch to a recent Disco....

Just a clarification. The grinding is only to the inner surface of the recovery eye casting. The surface is rough due to the typical defects you get with a simple casting. However, the eye is fitted with a poly bush for the Mitch Hitch. You are basically just cleaning up the surface so the bush fits neatly.

Scott

[lambrover]

Just to clear some things up, the Mitch Hitch was designed by Mitchell Bros in Brookvale(northern beaches of Sydney) they are using a new manufacturer with a slightly different design, apparently some of the old design were failing, hence the new design.

Now the original manufacturer are still making the old design for someone else, this is the copy that people are talking about.

This is what I have been told.
I wasn't told that. They use to make them in house but demand was to much to handle so out sourced the manufacturing. They had a falling out with said manufacturer and the replacment didn't meet the standards they wanted. They have finally found a company to manufacture there hitch to there standards.
I believe its the original manufacturer they had that was selling behind their back. If the new hitches are different it would only makes sence to have a difference to distinguish between the two. Either way some ***** has done the dirty on a family company.

[LandyAndy]

So,do these copied versions come with the correct rating plackard saying they meet ADRs????
When its time to buy Im happy to get a legal hitch rather than a copied illeagal hitch.
Andrew

[Mungus]

the eye is fitted with a poly bush for the Mitch Hitch. You are basically just cleaning up the surface so the bush fits neatly.
Scott
...and at least it would be the poly bush that wore over time and not the tow eye. The other one uses metal spacers. I actually sway toward the tapered poly bush design.


So,do these copied versions come with the correct rating plackard saying they meet ADRs????
When its time to buy Im happy to get a legal hitch rather than a copied illeagal hitch.
Andrew
From what I have researched, the website for the new knock off one states it is ADR compliant and from discussing with another member I think it comes with a sticker to put on the door pillar. Mitch Hitch have confirmed to me in correspondence that their product is ADR compliant and another member has shown me it comes with a plate attached.

[Redback]

I wasn't told that. They use to make them in house but demand was to much to handle so out sourced the manufacturing. They had a falling out with said manufacturer and the replacment didn't meet the standards they wanted. They have finally found a company to manufacture there hitch to there standards.
I believe its the original manufacturer they had that was selling behind their back. If the new hitches are different it would only makes sence to have a difference to distinguish between the two. Either way some ***** has done the dirty on a family company.

Yes this is true, I was just saying it in a round about way, a summarised version;)

[Tombie]

IF it was made in China, I'd agree. But its Australian, and I call that free enterprise and just healthy competition. And there are other ones esdies as well ...

I think $730 plus shipping - is theft too!!! The reason I am interested, is when I go off road with the tow bar on (the land rover one circa 2015) I don't want to gouge the tracks I might go over. For $730, I might get the spade out and fill in a gouge or two ...

Doug

Small volume production and certification wouldnt make for a cheap product...

Amazing how many want someones hard work for next to nothing... But then want it to comply with everything...

Why not design and manufacture your own version, have it certified, get your required liability insurance, and then sell them at a reduced price and dominate the market? If thats what you believe. ;)

[Melbourne Park]

Small volume production and certification wouldnt make for a cheap product...

Amazing how many want someones hard work for next to nothing... But then want it to comply with everything...

Why not design and manufacture your own version, have it certified, get your required liability insurance, and then sell them at a reduced price and dominate the market? If thats what you believe. ;)

I can go down to ARB and buy a whole kit for a 150 Prado, that is the steel that attaches to the chassis, have it all installed, have the electrics all installed, for under $1,000. Uninstalled, that whole kit is a bit over $700. Telephone price too - I just rang my local ARB to check.

However - Land Rover have already installed the tow kit ... IMO the Mitch Hitch is in practical terms an extension to the current tow setup . Its a small unit, is one piece, and uses few materials.

I think its great that Mitch have made a good product, and it's good to know if something goes wrong, they are covered (from what you are saying about their insurance). Its much praised, and at Australian Off Road, the owner there recommends the Disco and also he uses a Mitch hitch. But his company also says the standard LR unit does the job just fine.

But no wonder its so costly to make as you indicated - but actually, its hardly marketed, and they seem to keep minimal stocks. And stock levels have a huge impact on prices - just ask GOE about that with their wheel pricing. And if it is made in small volumes (which is typically a job shop type operation high on the learning curve and can be quite efficient with a good setup) then why does one need a grinder to have it installed? That does not indicate that its being designed for current vehicles or that its being manufactured properly.

Its almost as if we should be honoured to be allowed to buy one, and we should put up with having to install it with a grinder in hand. I wonder what that would do to any warranties and insurance/liabilities?

I just think the Mitch Hitch price is reflective of some aspects of operating a Land Rover. You are told either "do it yourself", or pay a high price.

[LRD414]

...why does one need a grinder to have it installed? That does not indicate that its being designed for current vehicles or that its being manufactured properly...

Doug, you may have missed my clarification post the other day regarding the grinding? I've pasted it here...

"Just a clarification. The grinding is only to the inner surface of the vehicle's recovery eye casting. The surface is rough due to the typical defects you get with a simple casting. However, the eye is fitted with a poly bush for the Mitch Hitch. You are basically just cleaning up the surface so the bush fits neatly."

Cheers,
Scott

[SBD4]

The grinding is a non issue. We are talking about attaching a device to the vehicle which requires no permanent change to the vehicle - it can be removed returning the vehicle to stock which, is one of the things people like about it. It re-purposes the cast tow eye and likely uses a standard sized bush to fit in the eye. Obviously a snug fit between the bush & the eye is required, you don't want any slosh in there that's for sure. The fact that Scott has decided to very slightly smooth out the inner diameter of the eye to facilitate installation is not relevant.

As to quantities, One word.... DEMAND. Why would he over commit on inventory when today's businesses operate so close to the wind. They are all focused on maximising the efficiency of their operating capital (likewise for GOE).

We as LR owners are typically grateful for businesses which invest in making these kinds of products for our vehicles. Most fabricators focus on the high volume brands where they can quickly recoup their development costs and don't bother with LR at all. So, when one does it is appreciated and supported and we understand that the product will typically be more expensive due to the lower volumes. Without them we would be stuck with cars on 19" rims pulling around vans while ploughing the country side amongst other things.

Constant references to other brands in this context is not useful. I don't see the point in discussing it, we are not privy to what the contributing factors are to the cost - the price is what it is. Either it presents value to the potential buyer or it doesn't. If it doesn't...move on.

[lambrover]

I can go down to ARB and buy a whole kit for a 150 Prado, that is the steel that attaches to the chassis, have it all installed, have the electrics all installed, for under $1,000. Uninstalled, that whole kit is a bit over $700. Telephone price too - I just rang my local ARB to check.

However - Land Rover have already installed the tow kit ... IMO the Mitch Hitch is in practical terms an extension to the current tow setup . Its a small unit, is one piece, and uses few materials.

I think its great that Mitch have made a good product, and it's good to know if something goes wrong, they are covered (from what you are saying about their insurance). Its much praised, and at Australian Off Road, the owner there recommends the Disco and also he uses a Mitch hitch. But his company also says the standard LR unit does the job just fine.

But no wonder its so costly to make as you indicated - but actually, its hardly marketed, and they seem to keep minimal stocks. And stock levels have a huge impact on prices - just ask GOE about that with their wheel pricing. And if it is made in small volumes (which is typically a job shop type operation high on the learning curve and can be quite efficient with a good setup) then why does one need a grinder to have it installed? That does not indicate that its being designed for current vehicles or that its being manufactured properly.

Its almost as if we should be honoured to be allowed to buy one, and we should put up with having to install it with a grinder in hand. I wonder what that would do to any warranties and insurance/liabilities?

I just think the Mitch Hitch price is reflective of some aspects of operating a Land Rover. You are told either "do it yourself", or pay a high price.
So you telling me the Prado kit uninstalled is just over $700 dollars.

Hate to tell you the Land Rover D3,D4 or RRS kit uninstalled is around the same price.

I notice you make reference to the landrover item being smaller or fewer parts then the Toyota equivalent. This is irrelevant really as chassis set up are different and the attaching process' are very different on these cars. The Landrover hitch is smaller but thicker for one, sold in lower volume which increases cost and when compaired to the Toyota as demonstrated they are roughly the same price.

Judging by your comment on grinding, you actualy dont understand the mounting process either so its very hard to be critical about this. Sorry this may come across as rude but still needed to be said.

[Silvo]

This is just my opinion, if you believe right or wrong, that is fine. but I think $700+ for what the Mitch Hitch is makes it expensive.

Everyone is different. When you buy something, if you see the value in it, you will pay the price, but generally up to a point that you don't see the value any longer.

$500 - I'm all over it.. $600 I'm starting to question it, $700 I'm thinking its too expensive.

I bought a Mitch Hitch, but waited and found a 2nd hand one, at $500.. which I was happy to pay.

again, just my opinion.

Dan

[Melbourne Park]

This is just my opinion, if you believe right or wrong, that is fine. but I think $700+ for what the Mitch Hitch is makes it expensive.

Everyone is different. When you buy something, if you see the value in it, you will pay the price, but generally up to a point that you don't see the value any longer.

$500 - I'm all over it.. $600 I'm starting to question it, $700 I'm thinking its too expensive.

I bought a Mitch Hitch, but waited and found a 2nd hand one, at $500.. which I was happy to pay.

again, just my opinion.

Dan

That's it exactly! I wish I could buy one used too ...

And Lambrover - no worries. I deserved much worse! I appreciate your refined manners and gentle approach. And I am being a bit controversial ... but I have looked at prices overseas for tow kits, and in some countries, the Disco tow kit is an option. Those kits have the bars and horizontal metal pieces that look similar to what a Prado gets. So I think that with a lot less pieces, it should cost less.

And I have done some research now too. Originally, people with D3s who towed - such as those towing Bushtracker vans - bought a tow hitch from South Africa, and later, Mitch came out with their's, and that stopped the South African unit, which very much resembled the better Mitch product. So, Mitch IMO looked at the various solutions around and then designed their's. That's what free enterprise is all about.

Land Rover also offered a replacement hitch themselves, which had less of a plough and allowed the spare tyre to be removed - and LR sold that for $600. When the Mitch Hitch came out, it too sold for $600.

As far as the costs go, and the R&D, Mitch said that they spent 9 months and a few hundred man hours to arrive at the unit.

Here are some guesstimate figures that I did to evaluate the costs.

Man Hours 350
Gross Salary 86,766
R&D Labour 14,600
Materials 2,000
Total 16,600

Original Price 600
Material Cost 50
Labour 50
Total Cost 100
Sale Price 600
GST 60
Less GST 540
Less Cost 100
Less Retail Margin 108
GP 332

Development Cost 16,600
Numbers to BE 50


So, for development time of 350 man hours, an $87,000 employee cost, the break even point for a $600 retail price would be selling 50 hitches. If they were sold direct at first (they probably were), then there would have been no retail margin cost, and the break even would have been 38 hitches. Note too, that the development cost would be a "sunk" cost. In other words, the person who did the work, was a current employee, and hence the cash flow would not have been altered by working on another new product.

As far as insurance issues, those would not increase, they'd be part of the overall businesses cover.

I'd suggest that now, the margins are higher, and the product is a very nice cash cow. It could easily be sold for $500, but then if they pulled the price down, sales likely would not increase. So instead its slowly going up in price.

As far as I am concerned, its not good value ... except if I go off road and knock my LR one around. That may weaken the LR product, causing it at one time to fail and lead to a disaster. It surprises me that LR don't do it properly themselves. What Toyota does, is offer a factory solution when you buy something from them. For instance, the tow pack for a Prado is made by Hayman Reece. IMO LR should have contracted with a company such as Hitch Bros, and supplied a decent solution, for lets say $500 when you buy the vehicle. When I bought my D4, the Mitch product wasn't available, the web site was frozen, so I paid $185 for a LR tongue. So that ups my cost if I pay $730, to $900 odd plus I'll have to have it installed. Its one area where the 200 series is much better ...

Doug

[Tombie]

What Toyota does is offer a dealer solution...
On a comparatively basic product, fitted to an even more expensive vehicle... Sold in far greater volumes and yet the same price :cool:


This really is an Apples and Oranges comparison you are making Doug....



As for your back of the envelope "Dev cost" vs "Margin"... Kind of rude isnt it?
What margins do you expect a manufacturer to wait?
How long do you consider recouping costs to be acceptable?

[gghaggis]

Here are some guesstimate figures that I did to evaluate the costs.

Man Hours 350
Gross Salary 86,766
R&D Labour 14,600
Materials 2,000
Total 16,600

Original Price 600
Material Cost 50
Labour 50
Total Cost 100
Sale Price 600
GST 60
Less GST 540
Less Cost 100
Less Retail Margin 108
GP 332

Development Cost 16,600
Numbers to BE 50

etc etc etc ..........

Doug

I've stayed quiet on this for a while, but ........

You have no idea what costs a particular business faces, or problems, or market solutions. Yet you continue to school us poor businesses from the back of your envelope on what we're doing wrong, how we should expand into national/global/universal entities etc etc

I'm still a little shocked that you saw fit to keep me on the phone for 10 minutes to explain to me what I'm doing wrong with my business (and misquoting me here on the forum about cost structures for the rims).

Some of us do not WANT to be overlords of the after-market industry. We make bespoke products (and only a few of them) for a brand we love, and to help out fellow owners. We typify the "cottage industry" approach. We deal with the fact (and most of my clients seem to understand) that Toyota outsells Land Rover in Australia by MORE than 20 to 1. No small business that caters for a unique Land Rover requirement can ever hope to compete on turn-over or price.

Continually braying about what Toyota does, what Toyota adds, what Toyota charges, is immaterial and bordering on insulting. You cross that border when you start to tell me and other small manufacturers how to run our own businesses.

Gordon

[Tombie]

Well said Gordon.

I consider the cottage industries serving LR owners to be very fairly priced... Considering the market size.

Those who aren't happy - go out on your own and make a product - works for me! And of its good enough you may sell a few...

[LRD414]

..... go out on your own and make a product - works for me! And of its good enough you may sell a few...


Speaking of which, how's the new & improved lower door seal coming along? [emoji3]

Scott

PS ... I'm another happy customer of the cottage industry approach described by Gordon. Include Tim and Graeme in that list too.

[Melbourne Park]

I've stayed quiet on this for a while, but ........

You have no idea what costs a particular business faces, or problems, or market solutions. Yet you continue to school us poor businesses from the back of your envelope on what we're doing wrong, how we should expand into national/global/universal entities etc etc

I'm still a little shocked that you saw fit to keep me on the phone for 10 minutes to explain to me what I'm doing wrong with my business (and misquoting me here on the forum about cost structures for the rims).

Some of us do not WANT to be overlords of the after-market industry. We make bespoke products (and only a few of them) for a brand we love, and to help out fellow owners. We typify the "cottage industry" approach. We deal with the fact (and most of my clients seem to understand) that Toyota outsells Land Rover in Australia by MORE than 20 to 1. No small business that caters for a unique Land Rover requirement can ever hope to compete on turn-over or price.

Continually braying about what Toyota does, what Toyota adds, what Toyota charges, is immaterial and bordering on insulting. You cross that border when you start to tell me and other small manufacturers how to run our own businesses.

Gordon

Gordon ... phew ... I just wanted to buy your wheels straight away. I was prepared to pay more, too. As it turned out, I collected my D4, drove it to Caloundra the next day, and four days after buying the D4, I met someone in the Caloundra Caravan park who showed me his D4, equipped with a Mitch Hitch (which he praised too), the SE motor which was flashed and in Melbourne Ritter do the same job, and his wife and young child were there and his wife was expecting number two ... he wanted to sell his GOE wheels (which were not on his vehicle), but I bought them then and there at the caravan park. 6 of them. I got them a fortnight later. You had used wheels on your site too, but they were sold.

It was much the same story with the Mitch Hitch. I wanted one before I bought my D4, but I could not buy it.

So there is an opportunity cost in not having stock. Sorry - but I doubt I am the only one whose purchasing behaviour is affected by delays.

And I have run a business, and employed a lot of people. And I then ran a different business, employing hardly any, but I serviced local manufacturing, designing and placing in modern production lines. But I am very familiar with Australian manufacturing. My first Government R&D grant was in 1976, and it was very successful. And I have seen the plastics industry mostly depart our shores. So I very much sympathise with the issues of local manufacturing - I have been there. My earlier own business is now all conducted off shore too. It makes me sick.

But the reality is that there are different segments of any market, and for many, people want to be able to look at something, assess in person, speak to someone in person, and being able to buy it quickly. That's a reality.

I don't know what percentage of that market affects you, or for that matter, Mitch Bros. But in my case, with both your wheels, and with the Mitch Hitch, if they had of been available, I'd have paid for them, and with your wheels, I'd have paid a premium - as you may recall.

If I have said the wrong thing, please contact me and I'll edit my posts. I felt I was speaking the truth, and with sympathy for costs that I thought I understood. And I normally have a good memory for business figures ... and for professional reasons.

As far as Toyota goes ... I don't know what to say. Are we banned from discussing other platforms? And I do not go on about Toyota - they are an example though of the way some things are done. I do own some, but if I am to be criticised for that, well, that would be ridiculous IMO. I am attending the Australian Off Road venue in the Vic Highlands, and I'll be one of the few Land Rovers there. There's 45 altogether, with a couple of Pajeros, a couple of Lnad Rovers, and the majority 200 series, with a couple of Prados and 76s. I'll be representing the LR argument, and their web site has followed my decision in buying LR. And now, you, as a supplier, have a run at my views about wanting service and what I regard as a fair price. And recall, I was happy to pay more for your wheels - I just wanted supply.

And IMO your stats for 20:1 are not correct, because few Toyotas compete with the D4. For a towing application, only the 200 series directly does, and the sales volume of the 200 to the D4 to private people are probably less than two to one.

Goodbuy

:angry:

[gghaggis]

Doug,

Should I assume "Goodbuy" was a Freudian slip?

Does running multiple businesses give you the right to tell people how to run their business based on made-up figures and "guestimates"? Unless you're their accountant, how can you speculate so wildly?

You have every right to shop elsewhere if my (or others') products don't suit you or are unavailable, and that's my loss if it was my product that was affected. But making profit is not the single driving factor in cottage industry production, something you fail to recognise.

I run my business to suit my life - balanced between my full-time career, my home life and my musical career. I'm sorry it doesn't suit you. I'm sure most others on here who provide low-volume products are the same.

There is no problem comparing other brands to LR. But if the comparison is not valid, it's just another red herring in the conversation. Toyota as a brand outsell LR 20 to 1. That gives them a huge infrastructure and a lot of clout with the large after-market companies. That's regardless of what anyone thinks about how any individual models compare.

Gordon

[MitchellBros4x4]

Very interesting read, great to see everyones points of view and I respect opinions, correct or not.

I found it a little short sighted to make reference to what the cost of my business is or might be but I can tell you that the development costs of manufacturing the hitch exceeded $75,000 over the 9 months it took to launch the Mitch Hitch off the ground and if I told you my my actual costs of the manufacturing process you'd see how it wasn't until we sold several hundred units and a couple of years to recoup the money we spent. It was a massive risk for us to take, we were only in business for 2 years before we took this on, it could have ended us.
Thanks to the people who pre-purchased the Mitch Hitch to help fund the project, I guess it may have been a form of crowd funding, people who believed in me and us that we'd make this happen.

We have had issues with manufacturing process. We are onto our third manufacturer because we couldn't get a product delivered to you that we're happy with, the second manufacturer screwed us around for 18 months, took our money and refused to re manufacture the hitch to rectify the issues they created. This took us 12 months to recover from, we're now back on our feet, we actually have stock on the shelf and will continue to have for the foreseeable future.

The Mitch Hitch has been copied, by the very people that we trusted with our intellectual property to distribute the product nationally, we trusted them implicitly and they took advantage of us and our trusting nature. I'm yet to see the engineering certification on the copied hitch but I dare say it'll be the same document that we supplied them to substantiate our claims that our hitch is compliant with the relevant ADRs.
This company is even selling their product using our name, customers that ring up asking for a Mitch Hitch are being sold the alternate product, unknowingly. We have sent legal letters to companies who are selling the hitch knock off using our name, the name you guys have called it, "the Mitch Hitch".
It costs $550 for us to send a cease and desist letter, we've send out 10 of them in the last 9 months, an easy calculation, even for a Toyota driver.

We will continue to manufacture the hitch, it has it's own website now and it's the most advertising we've ever done and to say that we've sold nearly 1300 hitches since 2007 is testament to the good name we have and effort we put into the design and you guys for talking about it. We've sold it around the globe through word of mouth. Thanks to everyone who helped by lending vehicles and spending time with us to make this happen.

Thanks to Andrew Trafford (CaverD3), the seemingly crazy guy who came into my shop and told me to make hundreds of them because we'd sell them, he loaned us his car for weeks (over the time) and only wanted a hitch as payment for his time. We could not have done this without you.

If anyone has any questions about the hitch, feel free to PM me or contact me directly 02 9905 4764.

Take care,

Aaron Mitchell

[Marty110]

I must be a simpleton - either own a Landrover or not, buy GOE sourced rims and/or a Mitch Hitch or not. But dont bleat about stuff. Either you can take it or you can not - if not, then dont own a Landrover. :cool:

Oh, and why insult people, their business acumen and lifestyle choices in ignorance of the full facts?? By all means participate in a constructive discussion, but with respect eh.

[Ean Austral]

Gordon ... phew ... I just wanted to buy your wheels straight away. I was prepared to pay more, too. As it turned out, I collected my D4, drove it to Caloundra the next day, and four days after buying the D4, I met someone in the Caloundra Caravan park who showed me his D4, equipped with a Mitch Hitch (which he praised too), the SE motor which was flashed and in Melbourne Ritter do the same job, and his wife and young child were there and his wife was expecting number two ... he wanted to sell his GOE wheels (which were not on his vehicle), but I bought them then and there at the caravan park. 6 of them. I got them a fortnight later. You had used wheels on your site too, but they were sold.

It was much the same story with the Mitch Hitch. I wanted one before I bought my D4, but I could not buy it.

So there is an opportunity cost in not having stock. Sorry - but I doubt I am the only one whose purchasing behaviour is affected by delays.

And I have run a business, and employed a lot of people. And I then ran a different business, employing hardly any, but I serviced local manufacturing, designing and placing in modern production lines. But I am very familiar with Australian manufacturing. My first Government R&D grant was in 1976, and it was very successful. And I have seen the plastics industry mostly depart our shores. So I very much sympathise with the issues of local manufacturing - I have been there. My earlier own business is now all conducted off shore too. It makes me sick.

But the reality is that there are different segments of any market, and for many, people want to be able to look at something, assess in person, speak to someone in person, and being able to buy it quickly. That's a reality.

I don't know what percentage of that market affects you, or for that matter, Mitch Bros. But in my case, with both your wheels, and with the Mitch Hitch, if they had of been available, I'd have paid for them, and with your wheels, I'd have paid a premium - as you may recall.

If I have said the wrong thing, please contact me and I'll edit my posts. I felt I was speaking the truth, and with sympathy for costs that I thought I understood. And I normally have a good memory for business figures ... and for professional reasons.

As far as Toyota goes ... I don't know what to say. Are we banned from discussing other platforms? And I do not go on about Toyota - they are an example though of the way some things are done. I do own some, but if I am to be criticised for that, well, that would be ridiculous IMO. I am attending the Australian Off Road venue in the Vic Highlands, and I'll be one of the few Land Rovers there. There's 45 altogether, with a couple of Pajeros, a couple of Lnad Rovers, and the majority 200 series, with a couple of Prados and 76s. I'll be representing the LR argument, and their web site has followed my decision in buying LR. And now, you, as a supplier, have a run at my views about wanting service and what I regard as a fair price. And recall, I was happy to pay more for your wheels - I just wanted supply.

And IMO your stats for 20:1 are not correct, because few Toyotas compete with the D4. For a towing application, only the 200 series directly does, and the sales volume of the 200 to the D4 to private people are probably less than two to one.

Goodbuy

:angry:


Come to the Territory, L/C 200 would sell 500;1 to the D4 ,


I wouldn't want to be relying on sell L/R products up here as my core income, you would be broke in less than 6 months.


Cheers Ean

[TerryO]

It can be false economy to buy a secondhand Mitch Hitch depending on what you pay, if you buy a early model then Mitchell Bros no longer sell the bolt and spacer to fit. You have to send it back to get it modified so the later model larger bolt and spacer fit, this costs quite a lot, can't remember exactly how much it cost us to get our one modified though plus add in the new bolt and spacer kit and your newly purchased secondhand one can cost as much as a new one.

Same goes for any secondhand Mitch Hitch, they recommend that you do not use a second hand spacer and bolt, can't remember now how much the kit was but it was not cheap and once added to the second hand price you may well be very close to being better off to just buy a brand new one.

In my humble opinion after a Llams kit a Mitch Hitch is just about the most useful mod one can buy for a Disco. I really don't like towing with the original hitch even the D4's.

[Tombie]

Speaking of which, how's the new & improved lower door seal coming along? [emoji3]

Scott

PS ... I'm another happy customer of the cottage industry approach described by Gordon. Include Tim and Graeme in that list too.

Its going well.... I got the first extrusion fitted and measured up for the second mating component yesterday - long days means working in the dark a lot... :o

I had contemplated a solid sealing face fitted / welded to the slider and have now decided to go the twin seal method - 2 mating seals..

So I have the second extrusion on its way.

What will happen is the 2 will meet when the door is closed and form the seal.

Has the added bonus that the original "flat blade" which just rubbed over the slider is now much higher and will no longer catch on mud etc on the slider..

[LRD414]

Its going well.... I got the first extrusion fitted and measured up for the second mating component yesterday

Sounds good. I'll await the details with interest, particularly how the extrusions attach to slider & door.

Scott
PS ... apologies for off-topic

[Melbourne Park]

Very interesting read, great to see everyones points of view and I respect opinions, correct or not.

I found it a little short sighted to make reference to what the cost of my business is or might be but I can tell you that the development costs of manufacturing the hitch exceeded $75,000 over the 9 months it took to launch the Mitch Hitch off the ground and if I told you my my actual costs of the manufacturing process you'd see how it wasn't until we sold several hundred units and a couple of years to recoup the money we spent. It was a massive risk for us to take, we were only in business for 2 years before we took this on, it could have ended us.
Thanks to the people who pre-purchased the Mitch Hitch to help fund the project, I guess it may have been a form of crowd funding, people who believed in me and us that we'd make this happen.



If anyone has any questions about the hitch, feel free to PM me or contact me directly 02 9905 4764.

Take care,

Aaron Mitchell

Thanks for the post Aaron.

I apologize for guesstimate for the hitch development cost; I was under half the cost ...

Incidentally I never mean't to portray real figures ... I thought I said I was guessing. If I'd have said 700 hours @85,000 per annum, then maybe I'd have been close. But I thought the process of development cost was worthwhile putting down in a thread where costs were being discussed. Same too with a Break Even point - the number of sales required to get back your investment in a new product. As far as risk goes - well that is what entrepreneurs do. And I presume you got good advise from those Land Rover owners, one in particular it seems.

And thanks for explaining why it wasn't possible for me to buy one when I was looking in September / October last year.

Now that Land Rover charges $185 to $250 for a tow tongue, it would be nice if new buyers knew that there was a better one available. I knew but I couldn't buy one.

And since designs have changed, and there are fakes about - it makes me feel better about getting a new one, despite my feeling that it's a bit costly. I guess I'll have to remember what Henry Royce said - “The quality will remain long after the price is forgotten”.

Some others are good for business too:

"Strive for perfection in everything we do. Take the best that exists and make it better. When it does not exist, design it."

"Accept nothing nearly right or good enough"

"Whatever is rightly done - however humble - is noble"


Incidentally, you can get companies to sign an agreement if you provide them your IP. From confidentiality agreements onwards, in your sort of business, and considering you have paid $5,500 in lawyers fees to stop false claims, perhaps getting such an agreement to have signed before people produce for you, would be a good idea. Lawyers have such agreements in their computers - getting one should not cost much at all.

I should check with my wife whose a corporate lawyer and knows about IP - maybe you should sue those making false claims? You are now the stronger business compared to such places who are falsely claiming they are selling your goods. Also I imagine the law would not appreciate the consequences of business or person selling something that is approved, when in fact it is not, and that can kill people, and cost a lot in damages.

I will contact you by the end of the week.

And for the thread - do you recommend to install your hitch in Melbourne? How much should it cost all up? And can I do it myself?

Cheers and thanks

Doug