Winch or Diff Lock

[alexcd]

Which should i get first?
Both will cost around the same. (will need a new bull bar, battery etc)
I currently have a hand winch which does the job, but after having to winch up a steep hill on the weekend, im seriously considering an electric winch. Hand winches are very very hard work and very slow.
But maybe if i had a diff lock i might have made it up.
What do you all think?

[101RRS]

If you already have a hand winch - go the diff lock first and save up for the winch later. Maybe with the diff lock you will not have to winch as much but then you might just get yourself into more trouble!!

Gazzz

[hiline]

go with the winch first style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

then when you break the rear diff, get a locker :wink: :wink:

[Disco300Tdi]

Now you would of made it up with a winch

And you could of with a locker

Just my thoughts :wink: :wink: :wink:

[RR5L]

Hmmm tough choice...If you went the difflock, better budget for some decent axles while your there, dont want that nasty 10 spline stuff once spending money on a difflock.

[one_iota]

Originally posted by alexcd
Which should i get first?
Both will cost around the same. (will need a new bull bar, battery etc)
I currently have a hand winch which does the job, but after having to winch up a steep hill on the weekend, im seriously considering an electric winch. Hand winches are very very hard work and very slow.
But maybe if i had a diff lock i might have made it up.
What do you all think?

There are a bunch of issues.

Some times slow and steady is the best recovery. A hand winch can't be beaten for these.

What if you need to recover sideways or from the rear? Maybe an electric winch in a relocatable cradle or a handwinch.

To avoid getting stuck Difflocks will help but even these wont help if your aggressive muddies are clogged with clay.

Take your pick and toss a coin. Travel with a group that offers options for recovery.

[Hellspawn]

Depends on the vehicle and where located as to which is the better first option I think.

For part time 4wd diff lock on the rear can be an advantage especially if the front hubs aren't locked.

Full time 4wd with locker on the rear is basically the same as a part time with the hubs locked.

Limited slip diff on the rear and locker on the front gives more traction but less steering ability.

Issues - axle strength
- "do I really need to go there ?"

Regarding the winch, only useful if there's something to attach the end of the cable to and has limited duty cycle. Diff lock could go all day.

[DaveS3]

Winch first hands down.

Once you've got one, they have many uses (including backyard modifacations style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ), but if your stuck in a situation where another vehicle will be comprimised if trying to recover you, winches are the only way to go.
As for distance, most winches carry at least 30m of cable. I have 45 on my Highmount. TThat along with a tree trunk protector, a winch extension can easily get me 65m, with my own gear. Not hard to get to 100+ collectively if need be eg. a long nasty hill.

I would look in the trading post, find a cheap 9000lbs winch and send it to SG Leslie and Sons for a rebuild with some of his mods.

You will have an almost new winch for less cost which will be reliable.
Maybe even have plasma cable to 8)

Once you add lockers, things break.

Dave.

[timberwolf_302]

Winch definitely the first purchase.

You cant pull a gate, fence, house, tree, street light or power pole down with a locker, can you? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[RichardK]

I went difflocks front and rear first and would do it that way again.........a winch is the last resort and without difflocks it would be used too often and would become a labour eventually whereas difflocks will get you in and out of all but the most improbable of places (providing your tyres are up to it) and you will have the fun of driving your vehicle through the obstacle.

[Defender200Tdi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Full time 4wd with locker on the rear is basically the same as a part time with the hubs locked. [/b][/quote]

Pardon? How do you come to that conclusion? :?

I would have said that a part time 4wd with the hubs locked is the same as a full time 4wd with the centre diff locked. But a cross axle locker is a cross axle locker, regardless of the transfer case setup.



Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[landy_man]

Originally posted by Defender200Tdi
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Full time 4wd with locker on the rear is basically the same as a part time with the hubs locked.

Pardon? How do you come to that conclusion? :?

I would have said that a part time 4wd with the hubs locked is the same as a full time 4wd with the centre diff locked. But a cross axle locker is a cross axle locker, regardless of the transfer case setup.



Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]

agreed...

And go the winch first... a winch should never be the last option, but rather the first option in any recovery situation... snatch straps are too dangerous to use if anything other than a light pull is required....

[Greylandy]

I'd say go the difflock first ... as mentioned you've already got a hand winch which is a lot more versatile than an elec. winch in any case. You will also use the locker a lot more than the winch.

Henry.

[seqfisho]

Hi Alexcd,

A tough decission that I'm also contemplating :?

Rovers really benefit from a locking or lsd at least in the rear as the open diffs front and rear really do leave you a little exposed :oops: at times when even the assistance of a LSD would get you through. :wink:

In my previous cars the winch was rarely used as difflock use usually when combined with LR's excellent ground clearance and wheel travel was enough to get through most obstacales style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif except for the odd time when the wheels wouldn't touch the ground :oops: cause the car was sitting on the diffs :roll: once I had to winch about 20 meters forward on the diffs from a tree on a side angle which was the only anchor point and managed to stuff the winch cable with crushing in the process :evil: had I had a hand winch I could have gone back 5 meters and been clear :roll:

If you were contemplating double lockers I would go winch and rear locker for the same amount of money, 2 lockers will get you way deeper in the brown stuff :roll: that sometimes even your own winch might not be enough to get you out 8O

[DaveS3]

Originally posted by Greylandy
I'd say go the difflock first ... as mentioned you've already got a hand winch which is a lot more versatile than an elec. winch in any case. You will also use the locker a lot more than the winch.

Henry.

But really how versatile are they?
Other than winching backwards, which normally you can be pulled anyway, there are not all that many uses.

Everyone says they can winch sideways, but who has points strong enough? other than looping a tree truck portector through the chassis?

Anyway...

Winch style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Dave style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[Frenchie]

Originally posted by DaveS3

But really how versatile are they?


I've seen two recovery situations recently which would have been impossible without a hand winch. One a Defender on its side on a steep hill and the second a Troopy teetering sideways on a sand dune.

They really are useful. :wink:

[Hellspawn]

Originally posted by Defender200Tdi
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Full time 4wd with locker on the rear is basically the same as a part time with the hubs locked.

Pardon? How do you come to that conclusion? :?

I would have said that a part time 4wd with the hubs locked is the same as a full time 4wd with the centre diff locked. But a cross axle locker is a cross axle locker, regardless of the transfer case setup.



Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]

Thanks for picking that up. Your right and what you wrote is what I meant to say.....but I just the way wrong it said.

[one_iota]

Originally posted by DaveS3+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveS3)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Greylandy
I'd say go the difflock first ... as mentioned you've already got a hand winch which is a lot more versatile than an elec. winch in any case. You will also use the locker a lot more than the winch.

Henry.

But really how versatile are they?
Other than winching backwards, which normally you can be pulled anyway, there are not all that many uses.

Everyone says they can winch sideways, but who has points strong enough? other than looping a tree truck portector through the chassis?

Anyway...

Winch style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Dave style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]


Look here:

http://www.aulro.com/modules.php'set_album...lbum.php&page=3 (http://www.aulro.com/modules.php'set_albumName=Ace-s-BBQ-July-9-10&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=3)

Sometimes the best way out is the way you got in.

I went in side ways.

The hand winches saved the day. There was no gentle way forwards or backwards. No difflock would have helped in fact it would have gotten me into a worse situation.

The recovery points used were the rear tow bar with a bow shackle attachment and in the front the two chassis tie down loops with a bowshackle in each and a bridle strap to share the load. This was not a snatch recovery therefore the load imposed was gentle. The effort expended was great :wink: but effective.

The wonderful thing about pine forests is that there are trees spaced at convenient intervals and distances.

[Defender200Tdi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Thanks for picking that up. Your right and what you wrote is what I meant to say.....but I just the way wrong it said.[/b][/quote]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

It's a worry, but that made perfect sense to me the read time I first it! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif


Paul style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[dungarover]

I come to this delemma when I had the dosh to either buy a vehicle mounted winch/bar combo (which I could of got a great deal from my local ARB stockist) or the front maxi-drive. I weighed up which I would use more and come to the conclusion of the front maxi.

I already had a hand winch so that was another reason why I swayed towards the front locker. The hand winch was a godsend on the 'cruiser park club trip I did recently. The recovery took well over 2 hours, but it was better than nothing (just an excuse to have another beer back at camp!!!).

Regards,

Trav

[alexcd]

WOW!!!
I'm more confused than ever now.
But i am leaning toward the winch. On day trips without company i can still carry the hand winch to cover all options.
I would love a locker, but the idea of having a go at some nice mud holes, not making it through (maybe caught on the diffs) and then hand winching out would make me very causious about trying, unless i needed a good workout!!

[RoverOne]

Originally posted by alexcd
WOW!!!
I'm more confused than ever now.
But i am leaning toward the winch. On day trips without company i can still carry the hand winch to cover all options.
I would love a locker, but the idea of having a go at some nice mud holes, not making it through (maybe caught on the diffs) and then hand winching out would make me very causious about trying, unless i needed a good workout!!

Go with the winch every time. Lockers will get you into more trouble in most cases, seriously great gear on rock steps (lockers), useless in mud, clay or sand, lockers will get you seriously in worse trouble.

Hand winch great to pull you sideways and back and up, electric winch to pull you forward and out. Tirfor useless bogged to the floor pan when alone, strength sapping especially warm weather, I have been there.

I've got 2 Landies, both with 10,000lb Warn, one with rear Maxi-drive, one with double Maxi-drive. Winch everytime what gets you out of trouble in every case, no contest..

Lockers are the luxury you install to go a bit harder in hard rock country and those very steep ascents down in the Alps. They will allow you in moderate country to do it easier with less stress on the vehicle but in most case you will still get to the top without a locker.

A winch is like an insurance policy you have to have even if you don't use it very often. I've been on some pretty hard trips and not needed either, just concentrate on driver skills, wheel placement and momentum, the right tyres with the right pressure.

Get them all eventually but get the winch first.

Cheers
Bryce

[Outlaw]

Yep i'd say winch first... lockers are great but can't guarantee you out of a problem :?

[timberwolf_302]

Get the winch, then if u still want the locking action (for little expense) weld up the pinions in the diffs.

[dungarover]

Lockers only get you into more trouble because some idiots don't use them correctly. They're a tool that are abused in the wrong hands. people should learn how to drive off-road first then fit diff locks if they find that they want to go 'a bit further'.

As for winches, I've only used my tirfor about 3 times in 8 years so a vehicle mounted unit for me is a waste of money.

If I was still living in Victoria I would agree with you reagrds to the winch. But like lockers, it's a tool and I have seen too many scary situiations that winches have been used dangerously. But I would of fitted both anyway, no comprimise.

Regards,

Trav

[alexcd]

the other day i had to hand winch up a steep hill. The clay, mud was so slippy that i could hardly stand. I doubt the lockers would have helped since all my tyres (M/T) where completly clogged.
The winch is making more sense the more i think of it.

If i get a winch what do you recomend?
Is a 8000lb enough? Whats best?

[RoverOne]

Originally posted by alexcd
the other day i had to hand winch up a steep hill. The clay, mud was so slippy that i could hardly stand. I doubt the lockers would have helped since all my tyres (M/T) where completly clogged.
The winch is making more sense the more i think of it.

If i get a winch what do you recomend?
Is a 8000lb enough? Whats best?

Alex,

The 8000lb Hi mount Warn is a very strong electric winch having the 10,000lb motor. But if a low mount is chosen, I don't think the 8000lb good enough. Go as big as you can afford, there is a 12000lb Warn now, its like the difference between A/T tyres & MTR tyres, the A/t's will get you there but MTR's will do it better and easier, in tuff spots.

Cheers
Bryce