Where the LR's & RR's are in Australia (Stats)

[eddomak]

Read an article in the SMH today (http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/the-eight-postcodes-where-mercedes-outnumbers-toyota-20151020-gkdtf1.html) about where the Volvo's are, and they have a interesting interactive statistics graphing tool, so I put in "Land Rover", and "Range Rover" to see where they are most popular. Here are the results:

Land Rovers
100921



Range Rovers
100922

Hope this interests someone. :)

[lpj]

Ha! I just read that and was about to Post!

I seem to notice heaps and heaps of LR's on my travels and can't believe that we are that outnumbered by Jeeps/Toyota's etc. I was starting to think D4's were becoming "common" in my area but not so!

Its just that they are so attractive that they get noticed more, whereas all the other beige boring cars blend into one another!

[CSBrisie]

Only allowed to own a Land Rover if you live in a suburb starting with A or B right? :p

[Silvo]

looks like NSW has a low population of land rovers, and a high pop of Rangies.. maybe i bought the wrong one

[LandyAndy]

6 of the top Land Rover list are WA postcodes.
See Albany rates high,they are everywhere down there,its the only dealership outside of Perth.When Land Rover closed the country dealerships across the country Albany remained,as it was the biggest selling "country" dealership.
Andrew

[austastar]

Hi,
The Tasmanian distribution seems odd - only Land Rovers in Launceston, and no Range Rovers anywhere.
I suspect the data source is incomplete.
Cheers

[ADMIRAL]

Well, according to that graph, Mandurah ( 6210 ) is the LR capital of Australia. I see a lot around, but I didn't think there was that many. It would be interesting to see the criteria behind the data.

[LRD414]

Could the data be picking up addresses where the vehicle registration is still with the dealer? That would put a high concentration of vehicles in the post codes where dealers are located.

Scott

[PeterOZ]

lots in Kooyong! Tractor anyone? :D

[PerthDisco]

I drove out to the Dowerin Field Day this year which is about 3 hours drive from Perth to the NE in the heart of the wheat belt. A huge annual country folk / farmer field day. It was an amazing collection of farm equipment / cars / motorbikes / outdoor gear complete with dedicated tent for the private school boarding houses.

It was what I imagine the Perth Royal Show was before side show alley & lolly shops and fully tattooed husband and wife couples invaded it.

Anyhow, I parked in the public car park which consisted of two enormous fields they used for the event. Cars were parked as a front to back pair and I am guessing the fields held about 10 rows by 500m. By the time I pulled in I was about three-quarters into the second field.

I had to walk back through the car parking area to get to the entrance. There was every form of near new farm owner and farm worker car encompassing large 4WD and ute most with fully bombed accessories.

On the way in I found one RR amongst the vehicles and on the way back I saw a Disco.

In speaking with farmer friends the lack of country servicing is off-putting as in any irregular trip to the big smoke the last thing they want to do is spend the day at the LR Dealer.

Interestingly, there was a LR stand at the show showcasing the new Hybrid FFRR $250k+++ machine which I thought was optimistic.

My recent Nullarbor trip showed that once out of the CBD / Private School Zone the numbers drop to almost zero excepting the good folk on this site who have the passion for the brand & technology and enjoy the open & off-road capabilities of the car.

I did note the convention on waving to LR owners (everyone gets a finger lift on the open road) and the ones I did see near Adelaide and Melbourne gave hearty waves which were responded to with enthusiasm. I did note after days of not seeing another Disco that a 79 series Toyo can easily be mistaken for one from a distance with their quite square front. A few must have gotten a surprise when they caught me nearly leaning out the window to wave in excitement only to realise it was a false-alarm.

[pprass]

looks like NSW has a low population of land rovers, and a high pop of Rangies.. maybe i bought the wrong one
My thoughts exactly :p

[pprass]

6 of the top Land Rover list are WA postcodes.
....Albany remained,as it was the biggest selling "country" dealership.

On our recent trip we booked our Discovery at that Albany dealership to have the Auto wipers checked out (our wipers don't auto wipe at all) and was surprised that they didn't have the part and would have to wait 6 days to get it shipped from the east. So biggest selling dealership, but not big in holding parts.
Peter

[Melbourne Park]

Hawksburn and South Yarra are virtually the same, costly, suburbs. So if they were combined, then they'd be number one.

As far as the large sales of Land Rovers for Abbotsford - that is interesting indeed. It runs close to the Yarra, and Richmond is close. That is Adam Bandt's seat - he's the only Green to have a seat in the House of Representatives. So clearly, Land Rover drivers are both Gay and Greens!


My street has 50 houses in it. There a four Discovery 4s in the street. The parallel street has at least two D4s in it too.

There are a couple of side streets off my street, with some Discos too, and an older Range Rover Sport, but I don't know the numbers.

From the 50 houses in my street, there are a couple of Lexus RXs, a 2 or 3 year old 200 series Landcruiser VX (he replaced his 2000 Prado with it), a Mercedes large SUV about 18 months old, a new 911, a recent Ferrari too and also a hot and very loud AMG Mercedes sedan.

Its Brighton ... I am not surprised they are popular. They appear to be much more more popular than Toyota Prado/200 series around here IMO.

Sadly I think men driving D4 Discos are rare around there ... its clearly a girlie vehicle.

[PerthDisco]

Sadly I think men driving Discos are rare around there ... its clearly a girlie vehicle.

That's the way it is here also. Straightened hair, big sunglasses, DISCOVERY on the bonnet. Kids in uniforms in the back.

I attribute it to the decision to go to painted wheel arches. Was marketing genius for sales as wifey could be convinced it was now almost a RRS.

The black wheel arches looked purposeful and manly. I hope the D5 goes someway back and leaves RR & RRS to their new domain of 20"+ wheeled Cayman wannabees.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Could the data be picking up addresses where the vehicle registration is still with the dealer? That would put a high concentration of vehicles in the post codes where dealers are located.

ScottThat doesn't work for Sydney, none of the suburbs with RR have dealers.

[stewmair]

Land Rover sells cars at very few places. Bendigo, where I live, is not one of them. The day in Melbourne for service, starting early or staying overnight, is a bind so there aren't many Discos in this area. More outlets, more sales!
When my MY07 Disco 3, 225km, bought when I lived in Melbourne, retires I would be silly to buy another one although there is nothing else that would bring me such happiness.

[Melbourne Park]

That's the way it is here also. Straightened hair, big sunglasses, DISCOVERY on the bonnet. Kids in uniforms in the back.

I attribute it to the decision to go to painted wheel arches. Was marketing genius for sales as wifey could be convinced it was now almost a RRS.

The black wheel arches looked purposeful and manly. I hope the D5 goes someway back and leaves RR & RRS to their new domain of 20"+ wheeled Cayman wannabees.

I still have my 1997 Prado, I thought I might get cheap registration, but not for years ... I bought it new too. And the plastic guards are a pain. If they get hit, their plastic connectors break, and you need to pay $500 to get a new one and get it fitted. Someone hit one of mine, and I had to screw the guard in. And they don't write off Prados so much, so spares are not so common and not so cheap.

I hate the guards!!!

Still a can of Plasti-Dip is all it takes to colour the guards ... and you can peel it off later on. I need to spray underneath in some areas to protect against stone chips. I should turn my white D4 into a black kit one; I have the darkish GOE wheels, so I could spray the air intakes, the arches, the mirrors and pretend I paid $7000 for the black kit, plus the guards must have been a special from LR!!!

[BMKal]

There's quite a few D4's in Kalgoorlie these days, and plenty of Defenders.

Most of the D4's though are in the same "duty" that you would see them in around Nedlands / Claremont area. ;)

There is one often seen white D4 that is the station owner's / manager's vehicle from a sheep station not too far out of town. Very easy to spot, usually plenty of mud on it and has the name of the station on a sign in the back window - often pulling a large caged trailer with farm equipment / hay bales / animals etc on board.

He certainly travels at a pretty good rate of knots in it too - passed me late one night coming back up from Perth - I was doing about 120 and he left me for dead. :D

He is one of the very few LR Owners around Kalgoorlie who always waves to you though. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/30.jpg

[LRD414]

That doesn't work for Sydney, none of the suburbs with RR have dealers.
Good point. New theory ... the top postcodes for Qld are all regional cities (Toowoomba/Cairns/Mackay/Bundaberg). Obviously there is more LRs in Brisbane but it's broken into lots of postcodes. The top Brisbane-based postcode is Brookfield, which is the well-off-soccer-mum-with-horsefloat heartland**.

Cheers
Scott
(**note: wild generalisation alert)

[sctsprin]

We don't have a horse float or play soccer:D

Good point. New theory ... the top postcodes for Qld are all regional cities (Toowoomba/Cairns/Mackay/Bundaberg). Obviously there is more LRs in Brisbane but it's broken into lots of postcodes. The top Brisbane-based postcode is Brookfield, which is the well-off-soccer-mum-with-horsefloat heartland**.

Cheers
Scott
(**note: wild generalisation alert)

[LRD414]

We don't have a horse float or play soccer:D
What about a small box trailer & minature pony? [emoji51]
Perhaps you're the exception that proves the rule James?
Anyway, no disrespect intended with my generalisation mate.[emoji3]
How was Fraser?

Cheers,
Scott

[sctsprin]

He he, just two smelly dogs and a two year old
About to leave to go there tomorrow so will let you know
Man I hate packing, I'm knackered

[scarry]

Bit weird the stats for Qld.

Regional areas such as Athol have more Discos than any other area,I wouldn't have thought so.

[peterall]

These figures are total crap..no Land Rover or Rangies in SA?
Come on. We have 15 Discos and 10 Range Rovers in our Range Rover Club of SA alone and many hundreds more around the state.

[letherm]

These figures are total crap..no Land Rover or Rangies in SA?
Come on. We have 15 Discos and 10 Range Rovers in our Range Rover Club of SA alone and many hundreds more around the state.

NSW stats seem off too. I see heaps of Discos around my local suburb let alone the rest of Sydney.

Martin

[Melbourne Park]

I went to the Supermarket yesterday afternoon . like 4:40 pm. It was the Coles supermarket in North Brighton, Melbourne. I went straight into the car park - there is also one at a lower level.

There are about 48 car parks for the supermarket (there are apartment car parks too but I ignored those).

So, out of 48 spots - there were 3 RR Sports. One looked fairly used ... the other two appeared brand new. The older one was navy blue. Both white. And then there were two D4s - mine, and another one, which looked new, a greyish colour with some bronze in it. Mine's white. So - 5 Land Rovers, D4s and RR Sports.

Funny thing about the car park is that its normal size. It shouldn't be - they should have bigger spots for all the SUVs. A Toyo 200 would be quite difficult to park. The D4's a piece of cake - much easier to park than a Prado for instance. Other SUVs in the car park of the large size were a single BMW x5 - far from new and looking a bit tired - and an Audi 7 that looks like a neat appliance.

[BMKal]

Funny thing about the car park is that its normal size. It shouldn't be - they should have bigger spots for all the SUVs. A Toyo 200 would be quite difficult to park. The D4's a piece of cake - much easier to park than a Prado for instance. Other SUVs in the car park of the large size were a single BMW x5 - far from new and looking a bit tired - and an Audi 7 that looks like a neat appliance.

Can't see why a Toyo 200 would be any more difficult to park in "narrow" parking bays than a D4 would be, when the 200 is 42mm narrower than the D4 (and the D4 is 84mm wider than a Playdo 150). :o

[Melbourne Park]

Can't see why a Toyo 200 would be any more difficult to park in "narrow" parking bays than a D4 would be, when the 200 is 42mm narrower than the D4 (and the D4 is 84mm wider than a Playdo 150). :o

There is no comparison - the 200 is a bitch to park - and only the Sahara has reverse parking guidelines. It is very long, and view from inside is very restricted, the back of the vehicle feels a long way behind you, and you don't know exactly where the back of the vehicle is. My Prado Kakadu was more difficult to park too - it has less visibility. Also it has less lock or turing ability than the Disco. Although mine did have reverse parking guidelines, which made it pretty good. But only the Kakadu has those.

[BMKal]

There is no comparison - the 200 is a bitch to park - and only the Sahara has reverse parking guidelines. It is very long, and view from inside is very restricted, the back of the vehicle feels a long way behind you, and you don't know exactly where the back of the vehicle is. My Prado Kakadu was more difficult to park too - it has less visibility. Also it has less lock or turing ability than the Disco. Although mine did have reverse parking guidelines, which made it pretty good. But only the Kakadu has those.

Well, have to say that I've never driven a Land Cruiser 200 in the city, nor attempted to park it in tight spaces. But I have over the past 15 years or so had about 6 or 7 Prado's, from 90 series to current 150 series, plus D1, D2 and D4, and a 1982 Ford F100 LWB, all of which I have driven in the city on many occasions and had to park in "tight" spots. Admittedly, the F100 was a bit of a challenge, even though it was slightly narrower than the D4 - but I've never had any trouble with any of the Prado's.

As far as turning circle goes, the D4 is 11.45m, the Prado 150 only slightly wider than that at 11.6m and the Land Cruiser 200 marginally wider again at 11.8m so I don't really see that as being a major consideration. The Ford was in a slightly different ballpark, with a turning circle of 12.2m though it did have typically American VERY light power steering.

None of my Disco's or Prado's has ever had reversing cameras or parking guidelines - but they all had mirrors. ;)

[Tombie]

What the heck?!

SUV sized parks? For what? ******* who can't drive? :)

The "biggest" of the usual suspects is only 100mm longer and 80mm wider than a Commodore... And has a turning circle within 400mm as well...

There are several "standard" family cars with the same dimensions - and they don't ask for special sized spaces...

People who can not put a vehicle safely in a standard parking space should either re-train or cease driving...

Prado has plenty of visibility for parking it, big mirrors, easy proportions..... Light steering....

We throw them around all the time - using mirrors... :D

Try backing a 785 - which plenty of guys and girls do every day - in a precise spot - using only mirrors... Then come back here with an excuse [emoji41]

[PAT303]

Well, according to that graph, Mandurah ( 6210 ) is the LR capital of Australia. I see a lot around, but I didn't think there was that many. It would be interesting to see the criteria behind the data.

I'm in Safety Bay and there's 6 defenders within a km of me plus a number of D1-D2's RRC's and at least one P38a,D3's-4's aren't hard to find plus a healthy number of Evoques,the fruit shop owner up the road has a RRS. Pat

[digger]

It is done by the first name in the suburb list...

so for my area where the largest town starts with W and the next area starts with either R or T the postcode includes about 9 long gone or never were towns also.. and BOOLGUN is the winner.

So if you are in a multiname postcode look for the first alphabetically.

Use the SMH link and select "check by make" then specify all states (or just yours) the legend on the right of the graph indicates what colour is what state (eg SA is cambridge blue). Then hover the cursor over the one you are looking at it will tell you how many in the suburb. remember, listed in the state order as alongside the graph so same numbers for each suburb will list in that state order..

Goes all the way down to 3!!!

[Melbourne Park]

...

As far as turning circle goes, the D4 is 11.45m, the Prado 150 only slightly wider than that at 11.6m and the Land Cruiser 200 marginally wider again at 11.8m so I don't really see that as being a major consideration. The Ford was in a slightly different ballpark, with a turning circle of 12.2m though it did have typically American VERY light power steering.

None of my Disco's or Prado's has ever had reversing cameras or parking guidelines - but they all had mirrors. ;)

I like to reverse park - back in. Guidelines mean that you can do it quicker. And reversing cameras are a great idea, if your reverse. For one, they show things low down, such as small children. And if you don't check for those by going slower - well, you should.

[Tombie]

I like to reverse park - back in. Guidelines mean that you can do it quicker. And reversing cameras are a great idea, if your reverse. For one, they show things low down, such as small children. And if you don't check for those by going slower - well, you should.


BM and I *have* to reverse park - it's SOP for our work.
The concept of reverse parking is to check the area is clear before backing in, followed by making it easier to see forward as you drive out...

Guidelines don't make reversing into a parking space quicker - mirrors and knowing how to drive do...

Agree on checking for small children etc, except - that while you're watching a screen with guidelines - you're not looking towards mirrors external to the vehicle - and unlikely to see the kid run towards (and potentially under) your front tyre as you turn whilst reversing.

Front guard damage seems to be the more recent phenomenon as people only watch the screens view from the camera and not the entire vehicles behaviour.

[Melbourne Park]

What the heck?!

SUV sized parks? For what? ******* who can't drive? :)

The "biggest" of the usual suspects is only 100mm longer and 80mm wider than a Commodore... And has a turning circle within 400mm as well...

There are several "standard" family cars with the same dimensions - and they don't ask for special sized spaces...

People who can not put a vehicle safely in a standard parking space should either re-train or cease driving...

Prado has plenty of visibility for parking it, big mirrors, easy proportions..... Light steering....

We throw them around all the time - using mirrors... :D

Try backing a 785 - which plenty of guys and girls do every day - in a precise spot - using only mirrors... Then come back here with an excuse [emoji41]

Real drivers change the gears themselves.

But ... as far as the 200 Series goes - I could not get it up my driveway gate. I have electric gates from the fence to the house, where the house starts. Its a 1920's two story place. When I folded the 200 series mirrors, there was 1.5" gap between the posts. So if the vehicle was crooked, the gap was too narrow, even with the mirrors folded.

Now - the Disco went in, with room to spare. The figures say the Disco is wider - but it is not. I know this for a fact.

Another issue with Toyota - do people know the wide Camry with the big fat rear tail lights? Made until 2006? Well - its width is said by Toyota, to be less than a Golf's. I have parked this Camry (I own one) directly behind a Golf. And the Camry is much wider. It looks wider, in a golf i can touch the passenger door easily from the driver's seat, but in the Camry I cannot - it is wider - but Toyota says it is narrower than Golf!!!

For a Toyota - drive it first!!! And don't forget to fix the suspension after buying.

But what is a 785? I can reverse park my LR with a Matrix AOR van, back into a street with few cars along it - and yes, the van has a camera lens on it, otherwise it would be IMO dangerous due to the possibility of people ... it would be easier though, if the graphics from the van pack were available to Australians. I don't have to have it, but it would be lovely to have it. Same too with the reversing guidelines, and the trailer coupling reversing aid that crops the camera view to the tow ball. You can say we don't need them - but they are great aids.

The coles car park in Double Bay, has larger spaces for its clientele. Its called knowing your customer. That's good business. Up the hill resides the new PM too. Actually, he's a few hills away, up towards the heads. I'm a Melbournian, so please correct me. He's an ex dinghy sailor too. But not a good one, so he's said.

There are large cars in Brighton - a Rolls Royce (actually its a Bentley but that means its made by the people who built Rolls Royces) parks down the lower level, because the owner can get some space around it.

Coming up from the lower car park, there is a tight turn, and a post in the middle because the turn is so tight, you can run into the downwards lane while you drive up. The post is rubber. its lost its paint, and they have only just put the post in, because people have been complaining. With a 200, you cannot turn until your rear wheels are clear of a wall, that is the start of the curving ramp.

And its a GP event getting in and out. You don't want to muck around - you need to pick your spot which is illuminated (green lights above the spot show the spot is empty), you charge over and slot in. Don't delay, or you'll loose it.

I still have a Prado too, and its smaller than the current 150 form factor. But its not as easy to park because it lacks the screens and parking guidelines.

One day we'll get out of our cars at the entrance, and the car will park itself.

[Tombie]

This is a 785 [emoji41]
We reverse them into work bays through doors that are 4' wider than they are!
101193

And I know how to change gears too! And we back these as well...
101194

I also drive the Prado 150, LC 200s, Hiluxs, Rangers, LC Traybacks, Goannas, Franners etc..

And the Hitachi and Liebherr diggers.

Quite versatile! And not a guidance line in sight!!!!

[BMKal]

The figures say the Disco is wider - but it is not. I know this for a fact.



So you know better than the published dimensions from Land Rover and Toyota, hey. :o:o:o

Dream on. ;)

And I dunno where "it is said by Toyota" that the width of the wide body Camry is less than that of a VW Golf - when Toyota's published width for this vehicle is 1,825mm and VW's published width for the Golf is 1,799mm (and that's for the 7th generation Golf, which is 13mm wider than the previous model). https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

And yeah - there's a wide body Camry in the shed out the back yard as well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/42.jpg (http://postimage.org/) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/43.jpg

[Tombie]

You keep saying you DO need them Doug! That's the whole point... You continue to claim that without them the vehicles are too difficult to drive/park.
I have managed to hitch my van, boat, trailers for 4 years without all these gadgets (low end screen) without issue by knowing where the vehicles extremities are.
My last Disco had a camera - yes it was handy - but I could function without it.

Core skills are important - after that the tech just makes it easy... I still need to know how to do these tasks manually - the tech just makes them simpler.

[PAT303]

Core skills aren't important,the reason automatic vehicles are taking over fitted with ABS,ESC,ETC,anti swerve,anti lane change,emergency brakes,radars,camera's,25 air bags ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz.I seriously don't know how we survived back in the day when we had no choice but to operate the steering wheel and brakes as well as change gears manually,all while watching the road at the same time. :confused:. Pat

[Melbourne Park]

You keep saying you DO need them Doug! That's the whole point... You continue to claim that without them the vehicles are too difficult to drive/park.
I have managed to hitch my van, boat, trailers for 4 years without all these gadgets (low end screen) without issue by knowing where the vehicles extremities are.
My last Disco had a camera - yes it was handy - but I could function without it.

Core skills are important - after that the tech just makes it easy... I still need to know how to do these tasks manually - the tech just makes them simpler.

You are simply being argumentative Graeme and debating me! And being IMO a bit intellectually dishonest!! And in my defence, the 1997 Prado I've had since 1997 doesn't have any of that tech, and its been untouched by me. So obviously I can drive such a vehicle for 18 years and not get a touch. And I've also driven an 10 tonne truck a fair bit at one time, but they are a lot smaller than that big thing of yours.

I certainly did want them in the 200 though. It's only recently that Toyota have provided a camera in the rear of even their costly GXL 200 series.

And - you are arguing IMO that the tech is not helpful. That its causing more dings. If you reverse park a 200 that has a tow tongue - the reverse camera shows the bottom of the tow tongue. That means you can reverse right up to the vehicle behind your's - with about 1" of parallax error. So one can go right up to the vehicle behind, and not touch it. I'd rather see than believe reverse beepers too.

Let me illustrate. In Melbourne, we park in the street, front to back. There are allocated car spaces, and a 200 barely fits. So, to get out (and in), you need to know where the car behind is, because it gives you more room to swing out, and avoid the car in front. Which if you touched it, is just the sort of damage that you say is more common now. That likely happens, because people are not going back far enough. And also, because people are lazy and want to get out in two moves.

If you say you can get that close to the car behind by knowing the vehicle's dimensions, and being a better driver - then you should have been an F1 driver. I just don't buy that.

And with a 200 series, a VX costs after a great discount (not the latest new revised motor version just out) about 91-92K on the road. And you get a reversing camera - but no guidelines. You have to buy a Sahara to get guidelines, and a Sahara's cheapest price is $113k. It would cost Toyota nothing to put the guideline software into all the 200s with reverse cameras. But they choose not to.

Now, LR don't have that attitude. If you buy a Disco with a reverse camera, then you get all the guideline software, in the base model. And their reverse camera even crops in for very accurate reverse trailer parking.

And Graeme - you are close to a professional driver. I am quite coordinated and fast around a track, but I am not young now. Reactions slow down, and I have to slow myself down somewhat. I find the guidelines simply illustrate where the vehicle will go, without me having to consider where the rear wheel will be when I swing. It also shows where the unseen rear will go, although the way I park, that is not important, but its still nice to know. It gives me more time to look around. Its a safety issue and a time saver.

My son had an accident in a car park - a Chinese lady drove into his IS250 Lexus (he is paying me off for it). She got confused with the reversing camera, and blamed it but she drove forwards into my son's car. The camera view confused her. My son happened to be there ... so I can understand your reticence about such technology.

But IMO such technology is very good, and in a 200, which IMO has poor rear visibility, and poor sideway three quarter visibility - all the aids one can get are usefull, if you understand their limitations and strengths. They certainly don't make up for bad drivers though.

And the dings you say on the front corners that are more common - they must surely simply be due to bad drivers, and perhaps, tighter car parking spaces, and people in a hurry or more distracted than they should be. People not reversing back enough, before they drive out of a spot, and hence hitting the front left side of their vehicle on the way out? Difficult to do though in my Disco - the warning beepers sound if I get close to the front corners. I think one day most cars will have 360 camera views. They are great actually, you could be within 1" of a parked car without any risk of touching it.

[Melbourne Park]

So you know better than the published dimensions from Land Rover and Toyota, hey. :o:o:o

Dream on. ;)

And I dunno where "it is said by Toyota" that the width of the wide body Camry is less than that of a VW Golf - when Toyota's published width for this vehicle is 1,825mm and VW's published width for the Golf is 1,799mm (and that's for the 7th generation Golf, which is 13mm wider than the previous model). https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

And yeah - there's a wide body Camry in the shed out the back yard as well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/42.jpg (http://postimage.org/) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/43.jpg

The width of the Camry I described is described by Toyota as being 1795 (mm). Your body looks like its at earliest the new shape which first shipped in 2006. Mine is narrower than the Golf. As you say - your Golf dimension is 1799. And the earlier one is I guess 1786. That is basically the same width as my Camry. But the Camry is physically wider from my in street test.

I have measured them in my street, and my neighbour over the road, has a Golf (and a D4 too). The Camry is a lot wider.

Try it!!! I know it sounds bazaar ... maybe we should both run a measure over them! I have a digital measuring device - I just need to figure out how to put up something vertical against the sides for that to work. Then I could sneak across the road early one morning, and measure the Golf. As long as a Police car doesn't come along, I could do that ... but parking bumper to bumper, the Camry is a lot wider. I got my 23 year old out and asked him which was wider - he said the Camry Dad, and thought I was crazy to be concerned by such a thing. He thinks I'm a nut for being annoyed about it. Do you think your Camry has more internal width space that a Golf? And yes, I have measured the door thickness too - the Golf's are thinner. I test drove one not long ago (I bought my old mum a car with automatic braking, the Golf has that as an option).

And also, how come I could get a D4 up my driveway comfortably, but the 200 didn't fit??? I may even have a photograph - I took photos of the gap from the mirror to the electric posts.

I was annoyed too, because to get electric mirrors on a 200 series, you have to buy the VX model. While on the I think the cheapest Prado, and certainly most of them, the mirrors fold up electrically. The Prado is much narrower, has more compact mirrors too - yet the 200 ones which are big, don't fold up unless you buy the 2nd most expensive model. Incidentally, the LR mirrors fold up - but hardly. IMO they are a locking aid - they show you the car is locked, because they have folded up. But the 200s are even worse - they fold up, but they still stick out a lot. The Lexus NX mirrors fold down quite flat, and the Prado mirrors fold pretty flat for a big mirror too. Although the mirrors on the Disco are much nicer to use. I am not sure why ... they have a great view IMO.

However, I did push the fence post outwards - the gap about 2" wider now. It cost me a couple of K for that. I re-hung the arms for the gates too, as they were at mirror height, and took up some width. I changed the fittings on the electric arms too, so I could remove the fittings entirely, allowing maximum space to avoid the van. But after the first time, I have left the arms on the gates on.

With my van, which is about 7.4 meters long, I reverse park it from the street up to the back of my place, in one hit, except for a stop and walk around half way, to check that I haven't missed something. So I can reverse park a van pretty well. Then again, I can reverse park a 43' Bennetton yacht which wasn't mine, in a 40 knot cross wind, into a tight marina at Constitution Dock in Hobart at the end of the Sydney Hobart. So I can get my mind into what reverse parking is about. With doing that, you have to go pretty fast in order to keep the keel having water flowing over it, and the rudder, so you have sideways grip, or the yacht will suddenly be blown sideways. With the van its much easier, I use the mirrors for reversing up my driveway - not any technology although the van has a camera, which is great to check for the dog. I do get out though and check. Then get in and continue on.

I do use the best technology of all for reverse parking though - low range and an automatic.

[BMKal]

And your point is ????? https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/640.jpg

Regardless of whether you look at a 2005 or 2006 Camry - they are both wider than a VW Golf. You are the only one making this incorrect claim ("Mine is narrower than the Golf"), or ("it's width is said by Toyota to be less than a Golf. ") from a previous post.

I don't know where you get your information, as the stats published by Toyota and VW clearly show that neither model Camry is narrower than the Golf. Perhaps you listened to and believed a junior car salesman. ;)

The numbers below are taken directly from the spec sheets on the Land Rover, Toyota and VW sites. Toyota only quote one "width" specification for their vehicles, which I have assumed is either exclusive of mirrors, or with mirrors folded in. Land Rover and VW quote dimensions with and without mirrors in operating position. I have used the 2015 Golf Mk 7 (earlier models are narrower again). The Amarok dimensions are thrown in there purely for my own interest, as I was visually comparing the size of my young bloke's new one to his D2 and my D4 the other day.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1077.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

In addition to showing that the Camry (both models / shapes) is wider than the VW Golf, the data also clearly demonstrates that a D4 is wider than an LC 200.

Now if you have an electronic measuring device that tells you otherwise, you go for it. I once had an engineer who believed that water flowed uphill. He designed a couple of sumps half way down two parallel inclined re-claim tunnels under a stockpile, and could not understand why the water bypassed his sumps and collected in (flooded) the bottom of the tunnels. I sacked the engineer, filled in his bloody sumps with concrete, and dug new sumps at the bottom of the tunnels. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Oh ........................ and I can reverse a kayak up a creek. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1078.jpg

[Melbourne Park]

And your point is ????? https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/640.jpg

Regardless of whether you look at a 2005 or 2006 Camry - they are both wider than a VW Golf. You are the only one making this incorrect claim ("Mine is narrower than the Golf"), or ("it's width is said by Toyota to be less than a Golf. ") from a previous post.

I don't know where you get your information, as the stats published by Toyota and VW clearly show that neither model Camry is narrower than the Golf. Perhaps you listened to and believed a junior car salesman. ;)

The numbers below are taken directly from the spec sheets on the Land Rover, Toyota and VW sites. Toyota only quote one "width" specification for their vehicles, which I have assumed is either exclusive of mirrors, or with mirrors folded in. Land Rover and VW quote dimensions with and without mirrors in operating position. I have used the 2015 Golf Mk 7 (earlier models are narrower again). The Amarok dimensions are thrown in there purely for my own interest, as I was visually comparing the size of my young bloke's new one to his D2 and my D4 the other day.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1077.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

In addition to showing that the Camry (both models / shapes) is wider than the VW Golf, the data also clearly demonstrates that a D4 is wider than an LC 200.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Oh ........................ and I can reverse a kayak up a creek. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1078.jpg

Thanks for all the work, that is great.

Pretty clearly -IMO- your presumptions re width without the mirrors width includes the bulk of the folded mirrors, and the Camry width being wider than the Golf, are - with great respect - incorrect.

Firstly re the mirrors: Toyota list the vehicle maximum width, completely excluding the mirrors. As do VW, when they mention the body width. When VW mentions the mirrors, it is when they are folded outwards. Recall too, that many cars have electric folding mirrors, and some non electric mirrors do not fold in. I think the D4 standard mirrors do not fold in??? The mirrors on the Camry Grande 2006 which I own, its mirrors casings are fixed. They don't fold in at all either. So body width completely removes all of the mirror. It is just a body width measurement.

This is likely the confusing thing. An understandable mistake actually. And also, IMO, we always presume that figures from companies must be perfectly correct, don't we!! Not IMO though ... for instance, power figures can be taken from various parts of the drivetrain. Fuel economy figures may not indicate the real fuel economy of a vehicle either - IMO at least.

So, because you went to such a great effort, I have tried to assist too, and I also measured my Camry. The figures are below.

Just on the measurements though.

Some links would have been useful; the Australian VW site did not list the two width dimensions of the 2005 or the current MkVII golf.

Carsales.com.au does list specs for Australian vehicles, but perhaps those can be wrong.

I found some dimensions here for a MkV Golf in the UK:
How wide is the mk5 golf, inc mirrors - Mk5 General Area - MK5 Golf GTI (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=68814.0)
width including door mirrors 2010mm
width excluding door mirrors1759mm

And this UK Site has the MkVII (same one you are quoting):
https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/VW-Golf-Dimensions-334

Width (excluding door mirrors) 1,799mm
Width (including door mirrors) 2,027mm -
Those are the same as the Australian ones for width excluding mirrors. That means, the mirrors are totally ignored.

The Australian VW site seems to not mention the width including the mirrors, although they are easy to get overseas. Toyota do not mention them though. Some people have tight garages - Toyota should mention that width, including mirrors, IMO.

VW Australia does list the width without mirrors though: 1799 (completely excluding the mirrors).
http://www.volkswagen.com.au/content/medialib/vwd4/au/common/specifications/my16/j6919-golf-my16-specsweb-pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/rendition_1.file/j6919-golf-my16-specs_web-01-10-15.pdf

Now, from my vehicle's manual, the Camry dimensions are:
The Dimensions for the 2005 Camry (mine is a 2006 but that was the year that Toyota brought in a new model) are:

Wheelbase: 2720
Front Tread: 1545
Rear Tread: 1520
Length: 4805 or 4830
Width: 1795
Height: 1495

Now - lets repeat here: 1799 is larger than 1795. That's what I have been saying. The Camry is listed as narrower than the Golf. Yes - I was not lying about that ..


Now, I have just gone out and measured the Camry. Its body width is not 1795. My measurements show that it is more like 1870.

Yep ... their figure from my measurements of my car, indicate that Toyota's published figures seem wrong.

From mirror to mirror, the vehicle width is 2006. The mirrors are quite small on that model Camry.

This confirms what I thought. That Toyota body width figures are not correct.

And - just for a second - just consider I may be right about this. Just try to look at it from an owners view for a second.

However, my figures have some estimates in them, but they could not be far out.

Proper tools need to be used to correctly measure the car. I'd love to get the chap over the road to measure the Camry's width, although he's a motor and tranny guy, not body guy, but he's spent his time at GMH after Uni, and he's a victim of them stopping manufacturing. He's an ex GMH engineer, and would know how to accurately measure my car.

I need to hurry, as I am going to sell it.

Now, as far as the 200 series goes - I wanted to buy one. But I could not get it into my backyard. Well ... with its mirrors folded, there was 1.5" gap between my electric gates. I could get the Land Rover up, no worries.

Unfortunately I then widened my gates a little bit, less than 2" though. There's quite a gap though with the Disco - I don't have to think reversing it back, and the mirrors are fully extended. I had thought I would need to buy an SE because they have the folding mirrors, but the mirrors folded don't save much space.

I have a neighbour who has an off road trailer, and had a Prado like mine, and then bought a VX Toyota. I might knock on his door (I have never spoken to him for the 16 years here's been up the road), but it might be a chance to compare.

IMO though, the 200 is roomier inside, and it feels wider to me. I think too, that the Disco has wheel flares, that make the car wider, but they do not add to interior room. While the 200 has not go wheel arch flares, and IMO there might be more interior width due to the lack of "false" width from the wheel arches of the Disco.

I think its extraordinary that my measurements really do show the Camry figures are wrong, and really, I am doubting what I just did ... I do need to get that engineer (now retired) and get him to measure some cars!!!

is it possible that Toyota - who I think widened the old camry and use a different floorpan to the USA wider Camry - and have published wrong figures... its tough to believe, but ... I did just measure the car!!! It had a flat battery too - I need to go and buy a new one.

I guess I come across as crazy, but I am not bull dusting at all ...

[Canaussie]

Here in Emerald, central Qld, there are about 8 D4's and 4 D3's not bad for a town of 16k everything else is a Toyota [emoji18]