New project 89 vogue

[jezza89]

Ok so this seems to happen every 6 months or so, but I have bought another car, another range rover.

I think it is an 89 Vogue SE. Picked it up cheap, circa $400, so can afford to scrap it if it doesn't work out.
It's not licenced, haven't seen it run yet, but it has potential, as it doesn't have a lot of rust, its complete for the most part, and its pretty straight.

I haven't been able to confirm it's running gear yet, but it looks like a 3.9 with auto trans and the viscous centre. It has been on gas, but apparently the gas stopped working and thus they stopped using the car and let it run out of rego.
The good thing is that it looks like it will have working air con, something I have never had on a classic rangie!

It needs an alternator and a couple of heater hoses, then just need to check the wiring for the gas etc and see what the issue is.

[jezza89]

101047101048101049

[carnut]

Good buy, Jezz!!:BigThumb: At that price, you can't really go wrong:).
Any photos if the interior? Does it have the electric moonroof? Looks pretty original on the outside too:BigThumb:!

[jezza89]

Good buy, Jezz!!:BigThumb: At that price, you can't really go wrong:).
Any photos if the interior? Does it have the electric moonroof? Looks pretty original on the outside too:BigThumb:!

No photos of interior yet, but yes it has the moon roof. Someone had obviously come along before me and removed all the switches for the electric windows and heated seats :( :(

[jezza89]

101085101086101087101088

[superquag]

Let me know if it turns out to be a 'scrapper'... I tried to push over a tree with my tailgate some months ago, and it has'nt opened since. - Don't ask ! Not Impressed with myself... (- 'gate is Very Impressed..;.with the tree...:mad: )

I paid nearly half that for a set of (same) mags with rubbish tyres. - You did well !!! :)

[jezza89]

I should have a spare lower tailgate around somewhere, though you will need to open it to remove it anyway?

[superquag]

Might take you up on that ! :D
- Still recovering from surgery, but venting my spleen on the old one may be good therapy !

I've tried, but it won't polish out....:(:(:(

[Corgie Carrier]

I paid a crap load more for my 89, what a great buy.

If you ever want to get rid of the woodgrain dash panel, let me know.

Good luck with the project, what is it going to be, daily driver or bush truck?

[Chivalry]

I haven't been able to confirm it's running gear yet, but it looks like a 3.9 with auto trans and the viscous centre.

Looks like it's a mid-year build date. Concealed door hinges but no 3.9, ABS or revised cluster.

[jezza89]

At the moment the plan is to make it a bit of a tourer, however it will really depend on the state of the engine and what gets picked on taking it over the pits.

So would this be a 3.5 then?
Was assuming it was Hotwire injection, or is it older flapper system?

[Corgie Carrier]

It has the viscous transfer case so I would assume that it is a 3.9.

Have a look at the compliance and see what date is on it.

Either way you can't lose at the price you got it for, have fun.

[Scouse]

Viscous transfer came in 1989 when it was still a 3.5. This car has a 3.5 plenum (no 3.9 cast into it) & a flapper type AFM so it's an '89 3.5.


It does have the "Land Rover" badge on the grille though. From new, that was fitted to the 1990 3.9 cars but it just clips on so it's been fitted afterwards on your car.

[Corgie Carrier]

That's where I made the mistake, I thought the viscous was released when they changed to the 3.9.

[jezza89]

Had a stroke of luck today. Threw a battery in the car and managed to get it started on petrol. Seemed to choke on gas. Found that the gas/petrol relay switch wasn't earthed, so it wasn't switching off the petrol when the gas came on.
Once that was sorted, it started and ran pretty well.

Bit of a ticking sound coming from around the dizzy or passenger side head.

Oil looks clean, but cooling system needs a lot of work.

Air con does work but needs a re gas.

Didn't try the moon roof...


Going to see what a radiator re core is worth this week.
Where is the best place to find tail light lenses?

[jezza89]

Update time.

Gas system is working properly.
Got the switch wired in properly and it switches over seamlessly.

Was given a free disco radiator that has done the job.
Tidied up/replaced a few bits in the interior such as door cards and steering wheel garnish, switches...

Still missing electric seat switches but thinking of ditching the leather anyway and throwing some spare cloth trim seats in there.

Got all the lights and indicators working, so all the car needs is some proper front bumper bolts to hold the bullbar on properly, and to fit the radiator shroud, then it's probably road worthy.

Not sure if the power windows work yet as all the switches are missing. Same with the central locking - not working at this stage but haven't looked too far into it yet.

Needs a good wash, I'm pretty excited about owning a classic with air con and decent brakes!

[jezza89]

103708

Fitment of new gas switch before solder and tidy up..

[jezza89]

Also, moon roof was kinda stuck. We managed to get it open and kind of working, but then something came off and it won't move under its own power again. The rails were not greased very well...
Was looking through the workshop manual but couldn't find much, anyone know how to pull apart the sun/moon roof to fix it?

[superquag]

Nope...

There are little slider location spring thingies that hold the inner slide in place...these can/will break and on mine...one jammed the top (glass) slider about half-way open.
Lots of compressed air, poking around with stiff wire and adjectives.... moved it.
Eventually...:o

You may need to drop the lining out to gain visual access... - it IS sagging, - isn't it ? :twisted:

[jezza89]

Update time.

So got this running and started sizing up the project.

Found a long list of problems:

Engine lacks power.
Sunroof is stuck/broken
Seats need replacing
Wiring issue in ignition loom, seems to be a dodgey wire or connection
Suspension needs replacing
Aircon needs regas
Oil leak from sump
Electric windows won't work
Central locking doesn't work
Wipers are stuck on (relay?) - pulled fuse to stop
Need to replace bull bar
Need to fit UHF



Was considering parking it up until I had the time and motivation to do it.
Then I took it for a drive (on gas) and it literally popped and stopped.
The intake pipe had blown off the manifold, so I assume it has stuffed the flapper AFM. I was able to get it running (barely), but it sounds like a tractor and there is a whistle coming from the intake.


Any thoughts?

I was already considering parking this thing up or just abandoning this project and moving onto something else... Opinions?

I picked this car up as I thought it would be an upgrade to my rough-as-guts 84 3.5 with a holley.
Driving it, it has better steering and brakes, but the lack of grunt was really disappointing.

Is the 3.5 EFI worth fixing? Or should I be looking for a 3.9 EFI?

[bee utey]

Not knowing how your gas is set up I have no idea what is damaged, you'll have to look at the flapper and the air hoses connected to the various idle control valves. I normally fit an anti backfire flap to these things just downstream of the flapper. I must admit the hotwire system is much better than the flapper system and is relatively easy to fit. You'll need the inlet manifold and injectors too.

As for the lack of power, you need lots of static advance on the timing, at least 10 degrees, good quality plugs gapped to no more than 0.8mm and of course a good working ignition set up. If you're running an Impco 200 mixer that'll be a big drag on your low down power too.

[jezza89]

Not knowing how your gas is set up I have no idea what is damaged, you'll have to look at the flapper and the air hoses connected to the various idle control valves. I normally fit an anti backfire flap to these things just downstream of the flapper. I must admit the hotwire system is much better than the flapper system and is relatively easy to fit. You'll need the inlet manifold and injectors too.

As for the lack of power, you need lots of static advance on the timing, at least 10 degrees, good quality plugs gapped to no more than 0.8mm and of course a good working ignition set up. If you're running an Impco 200 mixer that'll be a big drag on your low down power too.

Thanks, this is definitely the kind of info needed.
From looking at the plugs today, they seem to show that there is something contaminating the combustion. I will get some pictures up tomorrow.

Most of the issues with the cars are within my ability/budget to fix, but I need some reassurance that it will be a good setup once sorted.

[jezza89]

Ok.

Mate found a vacuum hose that was disconnected, and the car seems to run fine now.

Still having concerns about the cooling system, thinking HG.
So have ordered a gasket set (Ebay link (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130661655281?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)), and after fixing some cosmetic problems, will get the heads off and check everything out.

Also bought some NGK BP6ES spark plugs over the weekend, will fit them when I have the engine apart.

I googled the impco 200 mixer, I definitely don't have one that looks like that.
Still need to get some photos up!

Are there anti-backfire kits that you can bolt on? Or will this be a Bunnings-spec mod?

[jezza89]

Gas system:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/7.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/8.jpg

Ignition loom drama:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/9.jpg

Current electric window loom:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/10.jpg

[bee utey]

That's much the same LPG system that I use in SA, the kit would have been sold by my local wholesaler whose name is on the sticker. Anyway, there's a thread where I show how I do these things, with pictures, here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/lpg/140777-flapper-engines-backfires.html). The backfire valve is a stock item, size 70mm, but could be hard to source as they have no application on more modern injected LPG vehicles. Here it is:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=40722&d=1320910364

Also be warned not to stress the water fittings on the LPG converter, they look like the original plastic ones that last around 5 years. There are brass replacements available from the wholesaler.

[jezza89]

Excellent.

Have sent an email to the wholesaler you mentioned, maybe they could help source a suitable part.

After a quick search, have found the following:
70mm Backfire Valve Air Filter Protection (http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/70mm-backfire-valve-air-filter-protection-582-p.asp)
Not cheap though!

Also found this (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/lpg/135182-backfire-protector-valves-couple-other-questions.html) thread with some very useful information.
As said in that thread, if I keep the intake a bit loose on the manifold side, the intake pipe will just blow off again and should hopefully cause no damage again.

However, I am hoping that if I follow the advice and fix ignition and timing, I should not need to worry about it backfiring anyway.


Good point re: the brass connectors though. I will need to track some down. The mixer may be what is causing problems with the cooling system.
Edit - I am guessing this (http://bluelpg.com.au/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=409) is what I need

[bee utey]

Just a point, don't refer to the converter as a "mixer". It isn't. A mixer in this context is a device that mixes gas and air. The converter mixes nothing.

The last time I visited Mega Gas he had run out of backfire valves but still had the brass elbows. I have had to buy repair kits for Zavoli converters from the UK as well as there are none left at the wholesaler and he's not restocking anything for the limited demand for LPG stuff.

There were Australian made backfire valves available from AMR Manufacturing (http://www.amrgas.com/back-fire-valves) in Melbourne, but the plastic flaps used to break. I repaired a few with hand cut steel ones instead.

[jezza89]

Another update. Visited a fellow LR enthusiast family member, and had a chat about the work I'd be doing on this project. Decided to order a new camshaft, followers, some various seals, timing chain w/sprockets etc, and possibly a new water pump. Had a bit of a 'while it's out' moment! Figured that if I was going to the trouble of pulling it all apart to make it run better & stronger, I may as well replace the cam as it had done 250k+ and would likely be very worn.

The toughest thing (I think) will be creating room to slide the cam out the front of the engine. No problem pulling the radiator etc out, but will be a bit of a pain to remove the AC condensor and reclaim whatever gas is left in it.

Ordered it all from LR Direct. Pricing was pretty good, and it should be here within a week. We shall see...

[PhilipA]

No problem pulling the radiator etc out, but will be a bit of a pain to remove the AC condensor and reclaim whatever gas is left in it.

You do not have to break into the AC system.

If you have a "come along" you can lift the condenser enough to clear the cam without opening the system courtesy of the rubber hoses.
I have done it several times.
Regards Philip A

[jezza89]

Finally fixed the power windows! Turns out that the 2 window fuses #10 and #20 are secondary fuses for the window circuits... The primary fuse for the window circuits is actually #7, which is the wiper fuse - that I had pulled out when I couldn't get the wipers to stop!
So I have somehow managed to get both the wipers and the windows operating. What a relief.

Now I just need to sort out the damn sunroof so the car stops taking in water...

[aRRon]

Jezza, if you're replacing the camshaft and followers you'll need to set the preload on the (followers) hydraulic lifters. It's involved, being tricky for the home mechanic to measure and requiring shims under the rocker shaft pedestals to make any adjustments.
You can put everything together, measure the preload on each lifter and if you're lucky and they're ALL within tolerances (0.020" to 0.060" from memory) then you're set. If not you'll need to order a shim set from UK suppliers.
Last time I did it, even with reco heads, all new rocker shafts, cam and lifters, preloads were out - had to go new rockers and fit shims to get it right. Even valve wear where some of the valves have recessed into their seats and thus increased their protrusion above the top of the guide can send their lifter preload out of tolerance.
If you don't ensure preloads are within tolerances you risk noisy tapping lifters or worse, some riding valves that don't seat fully/long enough and burn out.
There are a few sites that illustrate and explain the procedure. I found using the extension arm of an electronic vernier caliper the easiest and most acurate way to measure preload.

[Meccles]

V8Tuner.com in UK sell's the shims. I found them real helpful and quick. Plus cams/followers etc. I use spark plug gap tool to measure the pre load at the lifter, that work's ok too. Just used a 30 thou wire. And yes, 20 -60 is pre load. Same site has good link to their old site with all details on how to measure etc.

[jezza89]

Will be interesting to see state of pre load then. 1mm seems to be a lot of tolerance, so I hope it hasn't seen more wear than that!

[jezza89]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/632.jpg

This arrived today...

[aRRon]

What does Britpart mean by a "tappet adjuster" - no such thing in the original. Is this a new term for hydraulic lifter?

[Vern]

Ooooooh thats a lotta britpart there, hope it works

[Pacemaker]

Hi Jezza,

I'm at the same point as you with my softdash. I bought a rusty 97 d1 for the engine. Its coming out this weekend and I'll be pulling it down for a reseal and what ever parts it needs.
I'm assuming you have purchased a standard cam from LR? Would you mind telling me what you paid for it?

Thanks.

[jezza89]

Hi Jezza,

I'm at the same point as you with my softdash. I bought a rusty 97 d1 for the engine. Its coming out this weekend and I'll be pulling it down for a reseal and what ever parts it needs.
I'm assuming you have purchased a standard cam from LR? Would you mind telling me what you paid for it?

Thanks.

I'm pulling mine apart this weekend also :)

The parts from LR Direct were around $200 to my door. That's a standard cam, lifters, seals, timing chain, sprockets and bottom end gasket kit. Not genuine but Britpart copies.
I bought a composite head gasket kit from ebay a week before for about $80

I've used a fair bit of Britpart gear in the past, and for the most part, it's been very good value. Genuine LR is just exorbitant price!


I'll be sure to post up plenty of pics of the progress, maybe even a video.

[jezza89]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/513.jpg

Got most of it pulled apart this afternoon. The engine actually looks quite clean, no buildup to be seen. Also had a composite head gasket already, putting another one on anyway.

Will be interesting to see this camshaft when I can get it out.

[jezza89]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/510.jpg

The spark plugs could probably still be ok with a cleanup and re gap, but just going to throw all the new gear in and see what kind of results it gets!

[PhilipA]

I don't like the look of the water passages. Not much can be done now except use 50/50 coolant.

The motor also shows neglect in that the oil residue is black which denotes long oil changes. Honey brown is the desired colour.

Just FYI composite gaskets are about 40 thou thicker than steel so the heads should be milled about 40 thou, so that the preloads are within a bulls roar.

Even with 40 thou off the heads I had to shim under the pedestals.

You will lose about 0.5 in compression ratio down to 7.7 or so to 1 without shaving the heads if you use composite gaskets.
If you find it already has composite gaskets you will have to measure the heads as per the manual or get a bit of perspex and a burette and measure the combustion chamber volume 28CC for composite and 32 for tin.

BTW there is not much of a problem if the preload is more than 50 thou , just the lifters may pump up at say 5500RPM rather than 6000.

Regards Philip A

[jezza89]

I don't like the look of the water passages. Not much can be done now except use 50/50 coolant.

The motor also shows neglect in that the oil residue is black which denotes long oil changes. Honey brown is the desired colour.

Just FYI composite gaskets are about 40 thou thicker than steel so the heads should be milled about 40 thou, so that the preloads are within a bulls roar.

Even with 40 thou off the heads I had to shim under the pedestals.

You will lose about 0.5 in compression ratio down to 7.7 or so to 1 without shaving the heads if you use composite gaskets.
If you find it already has composite gaskets you will have to measure the heads as per the manual or get a bit of perspex and a burette and measure the combustion chamber volume 28CC for composite and 32 for tin.

BTW there is not much of a problem if the preload is more than 50 thou , just the lifters may pump up at say 5500RPM rather than 6000.

Regards Philip A



Thanks, I didn't know that a gasket could change the compression!

I should rephrase my statement about the engine condition, I should've said its the best I've seen of any v8 I've pulled apart! :)

Others have been very gunky in oil galleries and much more corrosion in coolant passages.

There does seem to be a bit of gunk in this cooling system so it might pay for me to get the radiator rodded and serviced.

How can I check that the viscous fan coupling is in working order? I will have a dig through rave.

[jezza89]

Got the other head off today. The head bolts at the back are a pain to access!
Apparently that is a roll-cam chain, which is a bit more expensive than a regular timing chain. Is it worth keeping even though it's got a bit of slack in it?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/396.jpg

Bit of buildup on the block and pistons. Any recommendations here? Was just planning on cleaning up the block and head faces to get it all level again.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/397.jpg

One of the heads. Again, any recommendations for cleaning? Can I just get stuck into it with degreaser, a brush and some carby cleaner?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/398.jpg

New cam on left, old cam on right. There is maybe 1mm difference between the front lobes. Haven't got any vernier calipers yet to test.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/399.jpg

Front 4 lifters, with a new one on the left for comparison.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/400.jpg

[Meccles]

You can buy just chain to replace worn one. Cloyes True roller do chains.
And yes they are way better than stock items. My bet is it should also have different keyways to allow you to either advance or retard the cam, to degree it (if you want to do that).

[PhilipA]

You should never fit a new chain to old sprockets.
Regards Philip A

[jezza89]

I have a new chain and sprockets, but they are only standard items.

[Meccles]

The standard one's worked fine for many thousands of km's so if you have them, why not use them?

[DoubleChevron]

That's amazing that you can actually see the cam lobes are worn down. Is there an easy way you can get the compression raised. eg: heads from a high comp 3.5 onto a low comp 3.9 :confused: .... You want a nice high compression if your running it on LPG :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[jezza89]

Here's a better pic of the cam wear. You can really see how the old cam has rounded lobes, where the newer one has more of a raised point to them.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/317.jpg

[PhilipA]

The only official way to raise the compression is to fit high compression pistons.

If you shave the heads excessively you end up with misalignment between the heads and the inlet manifold, and maybe have to machine it.

Then you have to fit adjustable pushrods or large shims under the pedestals to get correct preload.
Regards Philip A

[jezza89]

Has been a while since I've had a proper chance to work on this. Opened the shed up today and got some more done.

Sump and timing cover are back on. Just need to double check all my bolts tomorrow as I seem to be missing a couple on the water pump. Cleaned everything up and put on a new crank seal. All gaskets are fresh and using red (high temp) RTV goo to seal it well.

Next up is heads, alternator, ps pump and so on. Couple more days of work in it yet.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/375.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/376.jpg

[PhilipA]

Just have a close look at the area between and around the stubs on the back of the water pump as they can corrode through there.
It may need some welding.

Regards Philip A

[jezza89]

Update.

Not much has happened with all this cold weather lately.

Got in the shed yesterday and started getting the heads back on.

One of the head bolts has a stripped thread on the head. Now, will a helicoil do the job, or do I need to drill it out a bit and re-tap it with a larger bolt diameter?

[jezza89]

We had noticed the presence of a heli coil or something when we pulled the head off.
Can see the lack of thread in the centre head bolt here:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/264.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/265.jpg

[jezza89]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/169.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/170.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/171.jpg
https://vimeo.com/188608905

[jezza89]

Update time

Got everything back together and running a couple of weeks ago.

Just got round to finding the gremlin in the gas system again today. Had to work out where the earths went.

Last post has a video of how it's currently running.
Seems to idle a bit high. Idles smooth on gas but very rough and rich on petrol.

Tacho is not right either

Any ideas?

[superquag]

Check that the BATT. or ALT charge lamp is working... Then have a look at the Alternator connections.
Or the alternator may be on the way out... Sorry!:eek:

[jezza89]

Update.

Fixed the gas system. Fixed the starting issue, turns out there was a faulty plug in the ignition loom under the steering column.

Pulled the sunroof out, the side brackets are busted. $400-500 for new ones.
Gotta love plastic components used in mechanical things.


Took it for a drive. Maybe 15-20 min. Got it hot and it started ****ing with coolant from overflow.

At this point I'm ready to throw in the towel on this car. Current issues:

runs terrible on petrol
suspension needs replacement
car overheats
roo/sunroof needs fixing
tacho doesnt work
needs bull bar
couple of the power windows dont work
air con needs regas/fix
needs rego
leak in exhaust to fix


Compared to my 84 RRC, the list of issues on this one seems to keep growing, and I haven't even been able to take it out yet!

[DoubleChevron]

Oh Gee's,

that's a ****ty old flap type air flow meter used on that. Check the wiring to your temperature senders and check for any air leaks downstream of the air flow meter (though that shouldn't effect wide open throttle running). You can open the plastic top on air flow meters and bend the wiper slightly so it runs on an unworn bit of track. There a pretty ****ty device though.

Last time my car with an AFM started running VERY rich, I found the fuel pressure regulator had died ( I fitted a fuel pressure gauge, and it went full scale and nailed the needle against the back of the zero stop ... so it was running HUGE fuel pressure).

If your still chasing electrical issues, slide both front seats forward and have a look under them from back seat. There will be fuses under both of the seats.

the tacho will be a disconnected wire on the alternator. Electric windows will probably just be dust filled switches, pop them apart and clean the contacts.

Grab same EL falcan fans from your local wrecks and hard wire them to the battery and see if it overheats (they'll probably be about $20) ... if that fixes the heating issues, either replace the clutch fan or wire in the electric fans and mount them properly.

seeya,
Shane L.

[superquag]

"...Electric windows will probably just be dust filled switches, pop them apart and clean the contacts...."

You can be so cruel.... you do of course realize that little balls and bits will fly 'everywhere' and there will be ONE that you cannot find.... ever. - which is a blessing as you need 3 hands and 17 fingers to hold it all and put them back together.

Then, you'll look at the window ECU , and discover the cracked PCB tracks and dry joints...

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:p:twisted::p:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Rick1970]

As said, check wiring to the coolant sensor on the LHS of the inlet manifold. Also check its resistance vs temp, from memory should be about 300 Ohms at operating temp???

They run terrible when they go kaput, and new ones are cheap.

[jezza89]

As said, check wiring to the coolant sensor on the LHS of the inlet manifold. Also check its resistance vs temp, from memory should be about 300 Ohms at operating temp???



They run terrible when they go kaput, and new ones are cheap.



The operation of the temp sensor affects the engine running? I thought it was just for monitoring purposes. Will have a look!

[Rick1970]

There should be two, LHS top/front is for the ECU only. RHS front with single wire if for the gauge only.

[jezza89]

Plot thickens. So I see a temp sensor on thermostat housing. 2 pins.

Seems to be the thermostat housing fan switch. PRC3505

Next up there is a single wire temp 'transducer' on the left of that. PRC7918


Now where it gets interesting. On the passenger (LHS?) of the inlet manifold there appears to be 2 coolant temp sensors. ETC8496

I may have the plugs swapped around? Why are there 2? Will keep looking.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/182.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/183.jpg


I had brown plugged into brown I think. Who knows what is right though...

[jezza89]

http://cat.lrparts.ru/1230_014745904.jpeg

That's what it's meant to look like. Why would there be 2 senders...

As I am buying some brake lines for the other RRC any way, figured I will chuck one of the temp sensors on order - only $8.50...

[jezza89]

The brown plug has blue/purple and red/white wires.

The yellow plug looks to have black/white and black/grey wires.

Cannot find anything on the wiring diagrams about a temp sensor.

[jezza89]

Have been thinking the second sensor may be related to the gas system.

Visited old man who has a 88 wreck that was also on gas, and yes it has the second sensor:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/174.jpg

One thing I spotted though, on mine there was a 'spare' injector style plug after putting everything together.
Here it is plugged in on the wreck:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/175.jpg
It's the black one bottom right. This may be causing some of my issues.

It's the auxiliary air valve

[Rick1970]

The extra sensor is the thermotime switch for the extra cold start injector. This is disconected in mine. It's likely it may cause a running problem if the plugs were on wrong.

Think the plug to the back of the extra air valve just supplies a voltage to the heating coil in it, could be wrong tho.

[Rick1970]

The diagram you posted would be for a Hotwire injection system I think, the last pics are an earlier flapper style. These have the thermotime switch and extra air valve, later Hotwire systems do not.

In any case, number 21 is the temp sensor for the ecu, and is worth replacing.

[jezza89]

Have plugged in that valve and does not change how it runs on petrol.

Looking at another parts site, it seems that valve is a 'VALVE-COOLANT INLET MANIFOLD VENT, 'CLASSIC PART', V8 EFI PETROL
Part number: ERC3617' (number 17 in the diagram)

http://cat.lrparts.ru/1230_014745984.jpeg

Maybe it is responsible for cooling the inlet manifold and therefore having it plugged in may assist in preventing the overheating?



What would old fuel run like? I can't remember if I have put petrol in this car before or not.

[bee utey]

Number 17 has nowt to do with cooling, it is supposed to raise your idle speed when cold, similar to how an automatic choke does on a carby. They are often stuffed, so leaving it unplugged may make no difference at all. Plugged in your idle speed should drop as the engine warms up.

[Rick1970]

What would old fuel run like? I can't remember if I have put petrol in this car before or not.

How old? 91/E10's usefull shelf life is not the best. Over 6 months and i would consider dropping it.