Help I have money and no S1

[Nut Tool]

G'day all,

I was going to introduce myself in the introductions section but I have some S1 questions so I thought I'd make it all one post.

First, I'm Tom, I'm a 23 year old engineering student. Interests include falling off my surfboard, falling off my bike (motorless variety) (only just recovered from the last one), falling off cliffs (tied to a rope while I'm trying to climb them), music and pulling apart mechanical things, finding out how they work, trying to put them back together and ending up with a heap of miscellaneous parts. When I was 5 I was solidly on the path to becoming some kind of electro-mechanical-inventor, the real world has since got in the way but I'm working my way towards the dream.

Part of the dream involves owning a series 1 swb. It would be kind of nice to only own one vehicle my entire life, and if only one it would obviously be a series 1. I had a job repairing bicycles and another one that involved some dubious TIG welds but I've never owned a car, I've got a very limited idea of what I'm in for but how bad can it be?

On to specifics. This (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/marketplace-alerts/227104-1955-land-rover-series-1-86-swb-project.html) has me pretty interested. Called the bloke, seems friendly, has four S1s in his shed. However I'm not sure what to think after he dropped the price to 2k without me saying anything and I found his previous two listings at $1300 and $1650. Thought I'd ask here what is a series 1 such as this worth? Does anyone know of a good project vehicle in the Sydney (sometimes Blue Mountains at folks') neck of the woods? I'm after a short wheel base with original engine, sound chassis, ideally not heaps of rust. I want to keep original patina and dents, I like beaten up cars.

Tom

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Welcome Tom:D

You are keen wanting a S1 for all year round in the Blue Mountains:o

[gromit]

Regarding the one you looked at....the seller seems to have had a lot for sale over recent months.

As to price, that's a hard one. First you need to find one with a good chassis and original motor.
If you're in the right place at the right time you might get one cheap (look out for local clearing sales). The price of Series I's is rising and the cost of restoration is often more than you plan. You also have to factor in how quick you want to have it on the road.

Back in 2007 I paid $2K for mine & drove it home.
Re-lined the brakes, new wheel cylinders, changed some oil seals, bearings, new tyres and some basic maintenance and then drove it to Cooma & back from Melbourne.
Not sure what you'd pay for one in that condition now but it would have risen.

I was recently offered a 1950, older restoration for $10,500. You couldn't restore one for that money but when advertised on this forum there was only one person who expressed interest.

Depending on how much you can do yourself the cost of getting one back on the road can be quite high. Paying more will often cost less in the long run (and you get to use it quicker).

Best of luck,

Colin

[crackers]

Colin stressed having the original engine. Note, there are a lot of S1s without the original engine (including mine) and the later, 2.25l is supposed to be a better engine. I believe (and I'm a novice with Landys like you) that this had a lot to do with the rate at which the originals wore out and the high price of parts - it was just cheaper to stick a later motor in. It is still expensive to rebuild any of these motors ($900 for a set of pistons was mentioned recently). Then there are all the conversions - Holden, etc.

You can go down the full originality route - original engine, correct nuts and bolts (a common discussion point and currently being discussed in Wombat's thread), correct vinyls, correct colour, etc. That puts a bigger strain on the budget than sensible substitution (ie, do what's practical at the time and never do anything you can't return to original later) however, with the age of these old girls, and for someone wanting to only have one vehicle 'for life', it's not a bad attitude.

Note: When I bought my first MGB, it was 'for life' - I've now had three and currently own a 2005 MG ZR. You've got to be really committed to do the 'for life' bit but my last MGB stayed with me for 13 years so long term ownership of a vehicle isn't daft.

You also need to consider how quickly you want this vehicle on the road. If you can get a good driving vehicle, you'll have something you can slowly do up over time, bearing in mind that if it's your only drive, you won't be able to take it off the road. These cost a lot more.

At the other end of the scale is Wombat who I rescued from a wreckers for $900 and am currently taking back to a bare chassis. I only wanted a restoration project and have no time frame though finishing her before I die will make it easier for my kids to dispose of.

Mate, this whole business is the old piece of string question, only it's tangled and you don't know if it's been cut in the middle.

Don't buy the first one you see, there will be others. I did but was guided by someone who knew the market and the vehicles and that is my second tip, find someone to help you choose.

Work out what you want now (driver, restorer, fixer-uper), how long you want it to take before you're using it as your daily driver. A daily driver is a very different thing to a vehicle that's simply registered and driveable because it needs to be reliable and only off the road for a day or two.

Work out how much money you have to throw at this project at any time.

For example. If you're doing a full restoration like me, most of the nuts and bolts will be damaged or at least rusted. The series 1 uses Whitworth bolts which are hard to get. You can buy a complete set from England for 800 British Pounds (about $1,700... and then you have to post them here) - there are cheaper options for cheaper bolts. This is not a cheap hobby. If you have a long time line, you can buy bits and pieces as you go - this makes it affordable (which is why I can do it). If you want it quickly, say in the next 12 months, you are up for a lot of money in a hurry.

Oh, and a near vertical learning curve... but that's the fun bit.:D

[Mick_Marsh]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/marketplace-alerts/226549-1955-land-rover-series-1-86-swb-project.html

Consider what you want to do with it. Restoration will be costly but the value will be there.
Out and out modification will be fun.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/marketplace-alerts/226520-1948-land-rover-series-one-4wd-5l-v8-auto-disk-brakes.html

This one would be a hoot:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/marketplace-alerts/226151-land-rover-1953-swb-80in-v8-hybrid-4x4-series-i-1-a.html

[gromit]

Colin stressed having the original engine. Note, there are a lot of S1s without the original engine (including mine) and the later, 2.25l is supposed to be a better engine.

?
Tom stated he wanted an original engine.....


Colin

[russellrovers]

G'day all,

I was going to introduce myself in the introductions section but I have some S1 questions so I thought I'd make it all one post.

First, I'm Tom, I'm a 23 year old engineering student. Interests include falling off my surfboard, falling off my bike (motorless variety) (only just recovered from the last one), falling off cliffs (tied to a rope while I'm trying to climb them), music and pulling apart mechanical things, finding out how they work, trying to put them back together and ending up with a heap of miscellaneous parts. When I was 5 I was solidly on the path to becoming some kind of electro-mechanical-inventor, the real world has since got in the way but I'm working my way towards the dream.

Part of the dream involves owning a series 1 swb. It would be kind of nice to only own one vehicle my entire life, and if only one it would obviously be a series 1. I had a job repairing bicycles and another one that involved some dubious TIG welds but I've never owned a car, I've got a very limited idea of what I'm in for but how bad can it be?

On to specifics. This (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/marketplace-alerts/227104-1955-land-rover-series-1-86-swb-project.html) has me pretty interested. Called the bloke, seems friendly, has four S1s in his shed. However I'm not sure what to think after he dropped the price to 2k without me saying anything and I found his previous two listings at $1300 and $1650. Thought I'd ask here what is a series 1 such as this worth? Does anyone know of a good project vehicle in the Sydney (sometimes Blue Mountains at folks') neck of the woods? I'm after a short wheel base with original engine, sound chassis, ideally not heaps of rust. I want to keep original patina and dents, I like beaten up cars.

Tomhi i have a mate in melbourn who has 2 1953 80 inches are coming on the market i cant disscuss prices i will give you his phone no its steve 0417058524 regards jim

[crackers]

?
Tom stated he wanted an original engine.....


Colin

I wasn't picking on you Colin, just picking a point out of the fray and I guess it can be taken many ways. All I wanted to do was say 'don't ignore the alternatives unless you want to'. I should also point out that I'm not against full original restorations and that's what I'd be doing if it were practical within my circumstances.

[Nut Tool]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Lots of good advice.

I'm definitely more inclined to go the "sensible substitution" method of restoration as you put it crackers - I want it to remain a series 1 at heart but the car was designed as an agricultural vehicle; part of being a tractor replacement is having replacement parts knocked up in the shed or by the local machine shop.

My original plan was to find a series 1 that had already had an engine swap and retrofit a modern 4 cylinder diesel. However a big part of the attraction is driving a vehicle that is difficult, doesn't go fast and is as manual as possible. Manual as possible really means I want a petrol engine with manual choke, this is why I'm thinking of heading down the original engine route.

[gromit]

Have you considered a Series II or early IIa.
Lights in the centre panel, 2.25 engine (also a diesel was available), better availability of parts, spare parts cost more realistic and parts more readily available.
Still has no syncro on 1st & 2nd so have to double de-clutch, only an enthusiast would know it's a Series II/IIa to everyone else it's an old Land Rover (or worse, a Jeep !).

The unrestored look is the way to go if you can find one that hasn't been butchered/modified.

Here's my Series I http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/159944-1956-series-1-pto-welder-home-made.html


Colin

[Mick_Marsh]

VICTORIAN LAND ROVER OWNERS FORUM • View topic - Land Rover 88" (http://vlro.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9493&sid=&p=69792#p69792)


Be quick.

[The ho har's]

Mick,

If you read the letter it has a Holden motor and rust in the chassis and a few other issues. I don't think it is a good buy;)

Mrs hh:angel:

[Nut Tool]

Colin, I have thought about IIs, I don't really have a good reason to prefer a I (except that silly curve in the door on the II). I absolutely love your PTO welder! Sounds like a good post-restoration project, although that will be many years away no doubt...

Mick, I was very quick. Mrs hh, maybe I was too quick! Arranged to look at the car the weekend following this one. The owner sounds like a great guy. Still drives the car around his farm with only a handbrake and two gears. He has kept the car under cover although previous owner(s) have not. Firewall rust free but significant rust somewhere in the front part of the chassis, so it'll require stripping and welding.
Handbrake works but wheel brakes have frozen wheel cylinders and no hose, so brakes will basically need replacing. Steering box sounds pretty dire too. It has a holden 186 which is running well. Unoriginal engine is a little bit sad but the idea of a more reliable engine that is cheaper to repair (I believe that is correct?) is somewhat appealing... Price also seems pretty reasonable. Also probably going to head out to Bathurst this saturday and look at a couple.

[gromit]

I saw the one on the LROCV website last night and considered it myself but a divorce would be looming.

Even a series III is OK if you don't mind the headlamps in the wings.
Full synchro (except reverse), heater as STD.
This one has a small Isuzu motor fitted http://www.aulro.com/afvb/other-powered-series-land-rovers/151959-isuzu-c240-powered-series-3-a.html

I prefer to keep them reasonably original but the conversion was done to quite a few in the 70's (I think I've tripped over about a dozen now). This one seems to go okay, looks old and was a bargain price. I've painted a few panels with the 4 year old paint supplied with the vehicle. grille should be plastic but the previous owner changed it to a metal one.

Best of luck with the 88"


Colin

[The ho har's]

Colin, I have thought about IIs, I don't really have a good reason to prefer a I (except that silly curve in the door on the II). I absolutely love your PTO welder! Sounds like a good post-restoration project, although that will be many years away no doubt...

Mick, I was very quick. Mrs hh, maybe I was too quick! Arranged to look at the car the weekend following this one. The owner sounds like a great guy. Still drives the car around his farm with only a handbrake and two gears. He has kept the car under cover although previous owner(s) have not. Firewall rust free but significant rust somewhere in the front part of the chassis, so it'll require stripping and welding.
Handbrake works but wheel brakes have frozen wheel cylinders and no hose, so brakes will basically need replacing. Steering box sounds pretty dire too. It has a holden 186 which is running well. Unoriginal engine is a little bit sad but the idea of a more reliable engine that is cheaper to repair (I believe that is correct?) is somewhat appealing... Price also seems pretty reasonable. Also probably going to head out to Bathurst this saturday and look at a couple.

It is cheap but will require a LOT of work. Holden's don't have the low down power of the little landy motors, they go everywhere. Price is reasonable, BUT, you will spend a heap to get back to original, brakes alone will cost a lot. Then there is the gearbox, 2 gears only. From experience $500.00 for brakes and lots$ for gearbox. Think before you buy.

Mrs hh:angel:

[crackers]

Seeing you're new to this game, may I suggest you need something like my second MG... and I offer this as an inspirational tale.

She was an MGB GT, straight out the container from the US so I had to convert her to RHD - that was the big job. There were no brakes - oh sure, brake like components were fitted but none of them worked (at all). Similarly, the suspension - had to pull all that apart and rebuild. No usable interior. Really scary electrics.

What made this a good buy was that she was cheap and I bought her from a trusted MG dealer who made a lot of money selling me second hand parts. He also gave me a lot of his time and support and you can't put a price on that.
Secondly, there was no rust, none at all. While rust can be repaired, it's cancer and there is always more rot than you think. In the Landy, you're only looking at the chassis and the firewall, but PROPER rust repairs can get expensive.
Thirdly, we suspected (but didn't know) that the engine and gearbox were okay. We were sort of correct and I wound up completely rebuilding the carbies, the starter and the alternator.
Finally, I didn't have to paint her.

This vehicle ticked all the major boxes which left me with a relatively simple rebuild... and it took two years, cost more than I really wanted to think about and gave me more pleasure than any vehicle has a right to :D I spent my weekends scouring the for sale ads looking for spare parts. My toddler son, would wake up from his nap and the first place he'd look for daddy was in the shed (where he'd play happily with my tin of nuts and bolts).

That MGB went on to be my son's and my only form of transport for the next three years :D

It can be done... but don't be too ambitious for your first restoration and yes, it will only be your first - if you finish one, you will start another.

[Sitec]

?
Tom stated he wanted an original engine.....


Colin

Yup, he sure did. Second from last line in the very first post. ;)

[Sly]

Let Tom go and make his own mistakes, if the bug bites so be it !!. If not there is allways a cheep jeep in the new year.

[Nut Tool]

Yep I am the classic excited kid on the internet. Can't help getting too keen about the first thing that comes along, but we're all guilty of that sometimes :)


It is cheap but will require a LOT of work. Holden's don't have the low down power of the little landy motors, they go everywhere. Price is reasonable, BUT, you will spend a heap to get back to original, brakes alone will cost a lot. Then there is the gearbox, 2 gears only. From experience $500.00 for brakes and lots$ for gearbox. Think before you buy.

Thanks for the advice Mrs hh. Having a look at parts costs it does sound like an expensive repair. I have to admit I am attracted to the idea of rebuilding a gearbox, I'm sure that any series 1 I end up with will be enough work without needing a gearbox rebuild though! Dad reckons it'll take me five years to get any series 1 on the road (speaking from experience, his FX Holden spent a good few years idle in the shed).


She was an MGB GT, straight out the container from the US...

Great tale crackers, definitely has me keen. Nice looking car, reminds me of a Jaguar E type a little.

Went to look at a couple of S1s over the weekend. All largely original with a couple of fantastic mods (custom exhaust with two mufflers, nice. Custom lift kit that involves extending the spring mounts by 6", welds on which are now cracked, really?). Chassis and/or firewall repairs on all, haven't leapt in yet.

Edit: Speaking of mods, it was somewhere on here that I saw the S1 with a bench vice attached to the front of the bullbars, right? That looks great and highly practical. Sad that you couldn't register it like that. Probably the pedestrians are happy though.

[The ho har's]

Take your time Mr Tool, (there is something really wrong with that statement);) You will find a good one soonish:)

Mrs hh:angel: