Revive Turbo Cleaner

[Ian Abbott]

Hi there anyone have established detail re Revive turbo cleaner for removal of oily carbon deposits in the two turbos of a D4 diesel?
Regards,


Ian A

[rar110]

I've used it on my L322 tdv8 at the recommendation of my mechanic. It made a noticeable difference to smoothness power etc.

I plan to use the 1/2 treatment about one a year to keep turbo and EGRs from coking up.

[Catmatt]

Hi there anyone have established detail re Revive turbo cleaner for removal of oily carbon deposits in the two turbos of a D4 diesel?
Regards,


Ian A

I've used it on my D4, D2 and my mates Defender that had a variable vane turbo fitted. It really does clean out a large amount of the gunk that accumulates. Doing a turbine wash is very common in the aviation industry particularly if carrying out low flying operations over salt water environment or bush fire work.

[PeterOZ]

Gents,
where and how do you apply this product? Assume it has to be on the inlet side past MAF sensor housing??


cheers
Peter

[Disco W.A]

Gents,
where and how do you apply this product? Assume it has to be on the inlet side past MAF sensor housing??


cheers
Peter








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAJSOsIbqyc

[PeterOZ]

cheers big ears! :D

[Will Wallace]

Who stocks this?

[rar110]

Who stocks this?

The supplier is on eBay. The applicator looks like a garden/weed sprayer from Bunnings. I don't think I would buy theirs.

[Tombie]

I've used it on my D4, D2 and my mates Defender that had a variable vane turbo fitted. It really does clean out a large amount of the gunk that accumulates. Doing a turbine wash is very common in the aviation industry particularly if carrying out low flying operations over salt water environment or bush fire work.

Little different :cool:

Search the UK forums before committing to this product... See about a 50/50 split including some horror stories..

[Catmatt]

Little different :cool:

Search the UK forums before committing to this product... See about a 50/50 split including some horror stories..

Too late as I've already committed with good results and also - very little difference at all! - same principle either cleaning the inlet compressor blades of a gas turbine in a rotary or fixed wing aircraft or the inlet compressor blades of a turbo-charger.....both accumulate oil/carbon deposits that if cleaned, improve the compressor performance.

I used the same delivery method that is used for cleaning my helicopter compressor......Filled up the pump spray that I use with round-up to kill weeds around the house, adjusted the nozzle for a fine spray and away I went. Worked a treat on the D4/D2/Defender and the longer hose and hand-piece meant I didn't have to balance an upside-down spray bottle (And saved some $$ by not buying their recommended spray bottle).

Only horror story I could imagine is either dropping a spray nozzle or some metallic component into the open compressor while cleaning it or, being impatient and inundating the compressor with far too much cleaning fluid at once.

A fine spray and patience is the key ;)

[cjc_td5]

How is this applied to a twin turbo 3L engine? Wouldn't you have to be very specific as to RPM at application to ensure that the second turbo gets a dose?

[Catmatt]

How is this applied to a twin turbo 3L engine? Wouldn't you have to be very specific as to RPM at application to ensure that the second turbo gets a dose?

The instructions are quite clear to apply the cleaner and as you'll be directing it straight into the inlet air tract, it will pass through both turbo compressors.

You'll need a helper to either sit in the cab and press the throttle or apply the cleaner.

If memory serves me correctly:

1st dose applied directly into the air intake downstream of MAF and air filter when engine is cold @ 1,800 RPM

Wait 5 minutes for cleaner to loosen/soften carbon/oil deposits in both air inlet and exhaust outlet.

2nd dose @ 2,200 RPM using the remaining cleaning fluid. This is when you'll see smoke, carbon deposits and steam coming out of the exhaust which is a by-product of the cleaning process.

Assemble everything then take the car for a "spirited" drive which will blow the remaining crud out of the exhaust.

Easy peasy!

[jonesy63]

Pretty sure the issue is that the secondary turbo won't get engaged while sitting in neutral.

[Graeme]

The secondary turbo being fixed vane doesn't have any moving parts to get stuck.

[Tombie]

Too late as I've already committed with good results and also - very little difference at all! - same principle either cleaning the inlet compressor blades of a gas turbine in a rotary or fixed wing aircraft or the inlet compressor blades of a turbo-charger.....both accumulate oil/carbon deposits that if cleaned, improve the compressor performance.

I used the same delivery method that is used for cleaning my helicopter compressor......Filled up the pump spray that I use with round-up to kill weeds around the house, adjusted the nozzle for a fine spray and away I went. Worked a treat on the D4/D2/Defender and the longer hose and hand-piece meant I didn't have to balance an upside-down spray bottle (And saved some $$ by not buying their recommended spray bottle).

Only horror story I could imagine is either dropping a spray nozzle or some metallic component into the open compressor while cleaning it or, being impatient and inundating the compressor with far too much cleaning fluid at once.

A fine spray and patience is the key ;)


Good feed back...

When I first read this thread I went looking on the web for peoples experiences / reviews..

Got a 50/50 result..

Guessing it really depends how far down the road the compressor already is before they choose to try the product..

[Ian Abbott]

Good to see your comments and thanks, I too have now gone ahead with my Disco service guys and actually thought to reset the trip computer for the freeway journey home (approx. 20 Kms at 100 kph - unusual to be able to do that nowadays in Perth). Car went really well 7.3 L p100 Km and I have noticed far less fumes in the rear view. Hopefully no horror story down the track.
Thanks - my first post, good to have your feedback, there are other Disco people out there!

[Celtoid]

The secondary turbo being fixed vane doesn't have any moving parts to get stuck.


But could still suffer from build up on the vanes affecting the performance?

[isuzurover]

So from the SDS it looks like this stuff is nonionic surfactant (Polyethylene glycol sorbitan monolaurate, Polyoxyethylenesorbitan monolaurate) in Propylene Glycol and Water.

It would cost less than $5 per litre to make up yourself. How much does the commercial product cost?

[Graeme]

But could still suffer from build up on the vanes affecting the performance?
There's no ability to build-up carbon on the inlet side as EGR is post turbo. I've seen the result of a mechanic's rag sucked in though but that's not fixable with anything less than a new compressor wheel.

[jonesy63]

Superheated steam on the exhaust vane would probably clean that side!

[Redback]

So from the SDS it looks like this stuff is nonionic surfactant (Polyethylene glycol sorbitan monolaurate, Polyoxyethylenesorbitan monolaurate) in Propylene Glycol and Water.

It would cost less than $5 per litre to make up yourself. How much does the commercial product cost?

$192.50 for the starter pack, $148.00 for 1lt or a six pack for $891.00 Ben:eek:

http://www.revivemyengine.com.au/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

[isuzurover]

$192.50 for the starter pack, $148.00 for 1lt or a six pack for $891.00 Ben:eek:

Revive turbo cleaner - REVIVE (http://www.revivemyengine.com.au/store/c1/Featured_Products.html)

Hmm. Might have to start producing a competing product...

[simmo]

Brun says that the on-line washes don't have to last long, since most of the washing occurs in the first 30 seconds, but since water is cheap, you can keep it running till the water tank empties. The main problem with on-line washing, he says, is that it removes material from the early stages and then re-deposits later as the water evaporates. To avoid adding to the deposits, he advises not to add any detergents to the spray, but to use pure, demineralized water ? and lots of it. Refering to industrial gas turbines

Hi guys, I think we discussed turbine & compressor washing before, I started a little project on it but never completed due to lack of time ( I used to be in the navy, as a " Gunner". :D)
We used aero derivative gas turbines at work and they had a lot of instrumentation them so we could trend all the performance parameters. We used to wash every week and had a 40 liter pressurized tank. You will often see similar at the airport, they roll the tank out and plug it into the helicopter or air plane engines for 5-10 mins before before they shut down the engine. We did use some type of additive to the water, it was a wetting agent i think. But there are those that think it provides little benefit see above.

The biggest loss of performance comes from the compressor fouling and deposits. Its immediate result & improvement can be observed with lower T5 (exhaust temp), for the same power output. (Translated means more air going into the turbine).

The same will apply to a certain extent on our cars. I'm a bit skeptical about the claims of turbine side cleaning by spraying into the inlet.
If you inspect a gas turbine blades , aero, industrial, that burns jet fuel, gas or diesel, or the turbo of your car, it will be unusual to see any deposit there except for some soot dust, you can remove by wetting you finger and wiping it off. ( probably there from idle time before shut down)
After a spray has been through the compressor-engine firing cycle its only vapor.

For large diesel engines burning heavy fuel oil, we do turbo side and compressor side washing, turbo side we use plain water admitted directly into he turbo inlet at idle speed by spray its a straight mechanical action the water droplets collide with the soot and carbon and absorb them or break them off. We collect the water at the out let, first its just black with soot, ( soft deposit), later comes the carbon flakes, ( carbon deposits from the turbine blades), then the water is clear, we know the turbine is clean.

Compressors side washing takes place at normal load water is injected into the inlet ( sometimes with additive, often without depending on the company). If the compressor internal washing pipes are blocked, we stand on the air filter with a 2 gallon bucket and "meter" the water into the inlet.
If you go too fast you have compressor stall and massive blow back. The turbine on a big engine is about 10% of the engine horse power. I our case each engine had 2 x 1000 hp turbine/ compressors ( turbo chargers)

I think if you sprayed liter of water and sprayed it into intake you would clean the compressor. cheers simmo

[Plane Fixer]

Cheers Simmo
On the PT6A engines on the Twin Otter or Caravan we do a water wash while motoring before first flight of the day.
Depending on the atmospherics we do a turbine wash once a week with water, again while motoring. This is designed to remove any sulphidation on the compressor turbine blades which leads to corrosion.
Every 150 hours we use a special detergent wash for the compressor, followed by a water rinse on the compressor and then a water rinse on the turbine. This does give us a lower T5 (turbine temp for the same fuel flow).
The same parallel is with the detergent, settling time and finally water rinse on the turbo. The difference is that the engine has to be running to turn the turbo, but the dirt particles will be so small by the time they reach the combustion chamber, and mixed with steam, they will clean very effectively. Remember the turbo is a centrifugal compressor and quite robust, unlike an axial in modern engines.
Back in days gone by the method of cleaning the compressor on the Rolls Royce Dart engine (centrifugal 2 Stage compressor) in Fokker F27 and Vickers Viscount, was crushed walnut shells. It was very spectacular for those outside at night as there was quite a tail out the exhaust.
I will look into doing that on both of my cars (VW 2.0 TDI and the Disco). The VW in a couple of weeks when I get back from Thailand with my wife. (She is up there at the moment getting a refresher on good wife training and I go there next week :wasntme:):angel::angel::angel:

[isuzurover]

...

I think if you sprayed liter of water and sprayed it into intake you would clean the compressor. cheers simmo

The deposits on the compressor in a turbo diesel car will be diesel soot and blowby gases from the EGR and CCV systems. Water won't be nearly as effective as water+surfactant. It would be like cleaning your oven with a garden hose.

[simmo]

Hi I never really considered EGR, I've never been exposed to it, it's the way of the future I suppose. But I wouldn't underestimate water, carbon soot is very soluble in water, ( provided it's not mixed with too much oil) and not very physically strong so easy dislodged by the water droplets hitting them at high speed. We are able to dislodge flakes of carbon bonded to the turbine blades on the HO engines using only water.
Many big "Gas oil" (or diesel fuel similar to automotive diesel ) engines don't have the facility for cleaning the turbine. Unless they anticipate a lot of low load running

We used the surfacant at work on the Solar Turbines then rinse. It would be interesting to know what would be a good surficant that is commonly available and cheap. ( dish washing liquid?). cheers simmo

[DiscoDB]

Hmm. Might have to start producing a competing product...

Interesting prospect, what would you propose as a home brew or are you are looking for customers? :)

[isuzurover]

Hi I never really considered EGR, I've never been exposed to it, it's the way of the future I suppose. But I wouldn't underestimate water, carbon soot is very soluble in water, ( provided it's not mixed with too much oil) and not very physically strong so easy dislodged by the water droplets hitting them at high speed. We are able to dislodge flakes of carbon bonded to the turbine blades on the HO engines using only water.
Many big "Gas oil" (or diesel fuel similar to automotive diesel ) engines don't have the facility for cleaning the turbine. Unless they anticipate a lot of low load running

We used the surfacant at work on the Solar Turbines then rinse. It would be interesting to know what would be a good surficant that is commonly available and cheap. ( dish washing liquid?). cheers simmo

Diesel soot is hydrophobic. It is also oil coated because of ccv system.

Dishwashing liquid is an ionic surfactant. You want a non-ionic surfactant so there is no risk of corrosion.

[Graeme]

The deposits on the compressor in a turbo diesel car will be diesel soot and blowby gases from the EGR and CCV systems.I would not expect any EGR gases to have any impact on the compressor because EGR gases go directly into the input manifold, well after the turbo.

[simmo]

4.1. NONIONIC SURFACTANT TYPES
During the last 35 years, nonionic surfactants have increased their market share, to reach about 40 % of the total surfactant production worldwide.
Nonionic surfactants do not produce ions in aqueous solution. As a consequence, they are compatible with other types and are excellent candidates to enter complex mixtures, as found in many commercial products. They are much less sensitive to electrolytes, particularly divalent
cations, than ionic surfactants, and can be used with high salinity or hard water. Nonionic surfactants are good detergents, wetting agents and emulsifiers. Some of them have good foaming properties. Some categories exhibit a very low toxicity level and are used in pharmaceuticals, cosmetics and food products. Nonoionic surfactants are found today in a large variety of domestic and industrial products, such as powdered or liquid formulations. However the market is dominated by polyethoxylated products, i.e., those whose hydrophilic group is a polyethylenglycol etc

I figure in the great body of talent that's in Aulro there is someone who can translate that into something we can use. :)

[isuzurover]

4.1. NONIONIC SURFACTANT TYPES
During the last 35 years, nonionic surfactants have increased their market share, to reach about 40 % of the total surfactant production worldwide.
Nonionic surfactants do not produce ions in aqueous solution. As a consequence, they are compatible with other types and are excellent candidates to enter complex mixtures, as found in many commercial products. They are much less sensitive to electrolytes, particularly divalent
cations, than ionic surfactants, and can be used with high salinity or hard water. Nonionic surfactants are good detergents, wetting agents and emulsifiers. Some of them have good foaming properties. Some categories exhibit a very low toxicity level and are used in pharmaceuticals, cosmetics and food products. Nonoionic surfactants are found today in a large variety of domestic and industrial products, such as powdered or liquid formulations. However the market is dominated by polyethoxylated products, i.e., those whose hydrophilic group is a polyethylenglycol etc

I figure in the great body of talent that's in Aulro there is someone who can translate that into something we can use. :)

If you go back a bit you will see i posted the likely chemical formulation.

[simmo]

Polyethylene glycol sorbitan monolaurate, Polyoxyethylenesorbitan monolaurate) in Propylene Glycol and Water.


MMMMM; yes its clearer now :o