MY15 Defender Puma 2.2 EGR blanking plate?

[AlecW]

I am purchasing a new Defender 90 soon and wanted to know of any successes/blunders with fitting a EGR blanking plate to it?

I am planning on keeping this thing long term like my maintenance-hungry 110 and would like to avoid pumping heat and soot back into the engine for longevities sake.

I was looking at:
EGR Blanking Plate Land Rover Puma MK7 Transit 2 2 2 4 3 2 Tdci Citroen Peugeot | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EGR-blanking-plate-Land-Rover-Puma-MK7-TRANSIT-2-2-2-4-3-2-tdci-Citroen-Peugeot-/151338641256?hash=item233c7c6768:g:gu8AAOxyeZNTUjp p)

Its the variant with a hole drilled to avoid triggering the mil light but not enough for the EGR to engage. Thoughts?

[justinc]

A better idea is to electronically switch off the egr function with a remap. Don't have to go for huge torque gains etc the egr shutoff is the main reason it would be done.


Jc

[ozy013]

The blanking plate on it's own won't work. The size of the hole required, so the MIL is not tripped, makes it a pointless exercise. It's too large, and you'll still get plenty of crap back through your engine.
Plenty of threads on here or DEFENDER2.NET - Index (http://www.defender2.net/forum/index.php), if you have the time to search.

The only way to close the EGR is electronically through the ECU, have a look at remaps, especially as you say this one is a keeper.

You can just disconnect the plug from the EGR to turn it off, just make sure it's closed when you do it. However generally after 3 cycles the MIL will come on. If you can handle driving around with the check light constantly on, then this is your cheapest option.

Both BAS and Alive offer a great product, mine's a 2.4, and I had the city map, with EGR delete from Pete at BAS. I then blanked the EGR with a solid plate.

It will transform your 90, however from memory the 2.2's require a new ECU before you can flash the map. There was a group buy on here awhile ago, where Pete supplied the new ECU as part of the deal.
Obviously you have to be careful warranty wise, maybe someone with a 2.2 will be along shortly. But I think all they do when the vehicle goes back for servicing, is to refit the original ECU with the standard tune. Most dealers wont notice the remap is there, but if they update the ECU then there's a good chance that you lose the remap, hence the change over.

[AlecW]

Thanks for the detailed response

Yes I might have to do the disconnect and cope with a mil-light initially as I will have a 5yr warranty and dont want to jeopardize that screwing with its mathematics. After that expires - then I will go the ECU route with remap. If I disable it from the word go then it be better for the engines lifespan I think.

What was the rough cost of doing the job properly with ECU?

Do I just disconnect it when the engine is cold after being off over night?

[Beery]

I had the EGR valve unplugged for several months after I bought mine last year until I eventually got a remap to close it.
The engine oil stays incredibly clean with it turned off.

When returning to the dealers all I do is change it back to standard tune. The ECU doesn't need to be changed back to the original.

[AlecW]

I had the EGR valve unplugged for several months after I bought mine last year until I eventually got a remap to close it.
The engine oil stays incredibly clean with it turned off.

When returning to the dealers all I do is change it back to standard tune. The ECU doesn't need to be changed back to the original.

Thanks Beery,

Did you have to purchase a new ECU to remap it like Ian suspected? I imagine the remap would have made the 130 more livelier especially with its mass.

Seems to be the most sensible mod early on I can do for its sake

[Beery]

Yeah thats right Alec. With the 2.2, the ECU needs to be electronically unlocked to enable remapping. The easiest way and the way BAS does it, is to send you a brand new ECU that he has unlocked, along with your remap. That way you still have your original untouched ECU should any anything go wrong (extremely unlikely).

Its given the 130 a lot more get up and go, especially as I installed an Allisport intercooler as well. But my main priority was closing the EGR.

[AlecW]

Yeah thats right Alec. With the 2.2, the ECU needs to be electronically unlocked to enable remapping. The easiest way and the way BAS does it, is to send you a brand new ECU that he has unlock

OK Beery awesome, now I have a game plan.

Dont mean to be a snoop but what did the package cost you approx?

Will need to start laundering money as one of my justifications for partner in getting new 90 = wont cost as much as my 300tdi to run!

The deceit will continue until she wises up

[Beery]

OK Beery awesome, now I have a game plan.

Dont mean to be a snoop but what did the package cost you approx?

Will need to start laundering money as one of my justifications for partner in getting new 90 = wont cost as much as my 300tdi to run!

The deceit will continue until she wises up

Haha you can keep telling her all these bits and pieces are to save money.

Look its not cheap, around $1,300 for the remap, OBD Bluetooth tuning tool, and new ECU. But think of it as an investment, where the sooner you do it, the more years of benefit you will get from it.
I look at it as a preventative maintenance expense and slight fuel saving.
Have a look at the link below and you'll get a better idea of how it works.

https://secure.bellautoservices.co.uk/store/bas2-rrc-defender-2-2l-tdci-150bhp-autobiography/

[AlecW]

Ahh Beery we think alike.

That's what I'm aiming for by doing the mod. For me in the 90 I would be happy enough with standard power and confidence the engine isn't being taxed over time with it's own poison being pumped back into it.

After driving my 300tdi for some time a standard Puma is a rocket ship :twisted:

[Beery]

Don't want to overload you with info too soon, but an upgraded intercooler is also a good idea. Maybe not quite as important on the 90 as the engine isn't working as hard, but still a good long term preventative maintenance measure i.e. cooler cylinders and head and slight fuel economy improvement.

[AlecW]

Don't want to overload you with info too soon, but an upgraded intercooler is also a good idea. Maybe not quite as important on the 90 as the engine isn't working as hard, but still a good long term preventative maintenance measure i.e. cooler cylinders and head and slight fuel economy improvement.

Yeah I can imagine it would. Just put a Turner performance head in my 300tdi and a bigger intercooler. I need to get the sucker tuned properly now..

I'm projecting operation 'Puma intercooler' for circa 2017. Once Ive seen through my commitment to finishing my 1994 restore (few mechanical things and interior/respray)

It.never.ends.

[Beery]

Yeah I can imagine it would. Just put a Turner performance head in my 300tdi and a bigger intercooler. I need to get the sucker tuned properly now..

I'm projecting operation 'Puma intercooler' for circa 2017. Once Ive seen through my commitment to finishing my 1994 restore (few mechanical things and interior/respray)

It.never.ends.

Yes they keep our spare money and time taken care of!

Another cheap one which a few of us have done, myself included, is to change the thermostat from an 88 to an 82 degree opening temp. About $100 for a genuine one.

Even though you've still got the same cooling capacity with the radiator, its keeping the head at a nicer temp for the 99.9% of the time when you're not exceeding the radiator's cooling capacity.
The oil also stays a bit cooler and keeps the oil pressure up a tad.

[MrLandy]

Yes they keep our spare money and time taken care of!

Another cheap one which a few of us have done, myself included, is to change the thermostat from an 88 to an 82 degree opening temp. About $100 for a genuine one.

Even though you've still got the same cooling capacity with the radiator, its keeping the head at a nicer temp for the 99.9% of the time when you're not exceeding the radiator's cooling capacity.
The oil also stays a bit cooler and keeps the oil pressure up a tad.

Interesting, first I've heard of the thermostat change Beery. Any more info?
Also any thoughts on upgrading the radiator as well as the intercooler?

[AlecW]

Yeah that thermo would make a difference for mean operating temps for sure. Will be moving down to SA soon so will be agreeable with that heat.

I will do the Alli-cooler upgrade once the engine has wore in down the track. She will be a daily carting arb bull bar and nothing else. Keep my 1994 for the nasty work business. Going to try and preserve the 90 best I can and stretch it's legs off road every now and again.

New Defenders are exciting!

[AndyG]

An added bonus is the much better drivability with a BAS autobiography tune. And back to standard tune for a Warrenty Service, takes 5 minutes,

Am a bit hesitant to do the I/C upgrade in case something catastrophic happens to the engine, even if it is innocent.

[Beery]

Interesting, first I've heard of the thermostat change Beery. Any more info?
Also any thoughts on upgrading the radiator as well as the intercooler?

Its mainly an effort to protect the head and head gasket for puma's working in hot climates.

It will also reduce thermal stress on the oil and maintain slightly better viscosity as the oil cooler is dependant on engine coolant.

The engine bay is noticeably cooler when I lift the bonnet now, reducing heat stress on all components living in there.

The original thermostat isn't fully open til 96 degrees where the replacement one is full open at about 88 degrees.
It means when the going gets heavy, the cooling system is being fully utilised earlier, giving it more chance to pump the heat out rather than waiting til things are stinking hot.

This also brings the fan in earlier, boosting airflow (depends on road speed and revs obviously) over the intercooler, radiator and engine bay.

The standard radiator seems to have enough capacity for most situations...those where it doesn't just need a bit of driver common sense. Increasing the intercooler performance and closing the EGR will reduce demand on the cooling system a bit.

Again, all long term preventative measures

[Keath]

G'Day Beery,

I'm also interested in this thermostat change for my 08' 110. Do you have a part number?

Cheers,

Lachlan.

[Longtimer]

Gents,

You need to be careful with putting in colder thermostats on diesels, as they need to be run hot. Compared to a petrol engine that is....

Dropping down to a 82? thermostat is fine in warmer areas. Not recommended for cold hilly areas, as the engine can loose to much heat in a long down hill....

I put a colder one (82?C) in my 200tdi, and it was fine, except for going down Greenmount on cold mornings. Temp would drop a tad more than I liked....

Before the remap, but with the Alisport fitted, my engine used to sit at 92 - 93?C for most driving on the flats. With the BAS 170 remap, it sits at 88 - 89?C. But it will go up to 92/93?C if you start doing some work in a warm/hot environment.
My remap has the EGR turned off. :) So perhaps it is that making a difference.

I would certainly like to know the part number of the 82?C thermostat. :D

Coventries sells the 82?C thermostat for the 200Tdi, for those who are interested.


Cheers,

Phill. :)

[filcar]

I was amazed at the temperature variation of my 2.2 with 170 BAS remap and Allisport intercooler as reported by the ultragauge. Working up hill towing the new camper trailer it wasn't uncommon for the temp to go up to 96 to 99C, while coasting downhill can see it drop to 82C. On the flat it sits nicely around 89 or 90C.


On the run into Toowoomba going up the mountains the temp peaked at 104C which was a bit of a worry but there isn't a damn thing you can do on that road other than keep grinding along.

[1nando]

Ive had a Bruce Davis/Alive tune on my 2.2.

Egr switched off and blanked.

Decat with rear muffler removed, only centre muffler kept for some back pressure.

Intercooler

Pulls like a train, runs like a dream, and is a pleasure to drive.



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[Beery]

G'Day Beery,

I'm also interested in this thermostat change for my 08' 110. Do you have a part number?

Cheers,

Lachlan.


Hi Lachlan,

The 82<88 degree thermostat part number is PEL500110.

Cheers
Tom

[Beery]

Gents,

You need to be careful with putting in colder thermostats on diesels, as they need to be run hot. Compared to a petrol engine that is....

Dropping down to a 82? thermostat is fine in warmer areas. Not recommended for cold hilly areas, as the engine can loose to much heat in a long down hill....

I put a colder one (82?C) in my 200tdi, and it was fine, except for going down Greenmount on cold mornings. Temp would drop a tad more than I liked....

Before the remap, but with the Alisport fitted, my engine used to sit at 92 - 93?C for most driving on the flats. With the BAS 170 remap, it sits at 88 - 89?C. But it will go up to 92/93?C if you start doing some work in a warm/hot environment.
My remap has the EGR turned off. :) So perhaps it is that making a difference.

I would certainly like to know the part number of the 82?C thermostat. :D

Coventries sells the 82?C thermostat for the 200Tdi, for those who are interested.


Cheers,

Phill. :)


Hi Phill,

Mine with the PEL500110 thermostat, sits on 85 - 87 around Darwin. It has been up to 95 degrees on a day of about 38 degrees with a gross weight just under 3t, aircon going, sitting on 110km/h.

Cheers
Tom

[LouisW]

Ive had a Bruce Davis/Alive tune on my 2.2.

Egr switched off and blanked.

Decat with rear muffler removed, only centre muffler kept for some back pressure.

Intercooler

Pulls like a train, runs like a dream, and is a pleasure to drive.



Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app


I plan to do the exactly the same to Betty. But was told I should wait for 20k (or at least 10k). Before I do it. However can you please elaborate on how the performance changed.

Rgs Louis

[1nando]

I plan to do the exactly the same to Betty. But was told I should wait for 20k (or at least 10k). Before I do it. However can you please elaborate on how the performance changed.

Rgs Louis

Hi Louis,

Plenty of low down torque with a very strong mid range.
I cruise around in fifth at 60kms.......if i need to get in front of someone i put my foot down and the car actually moves......
But the greatest pleasure was when i drove from Melbourne back to Sydney. I had a bloke in a 70 series cruiser who i decided to over take. He wasnt impressed and as the road turned into a long hill climb he tried to catch up with his big "v8 turbo." I could tell he was trying to catch up becuase he was sitting on about 110km and all of a sudden i could see him narrowing the gap.....i was doing 120km as o had overtaken.

I decided to keep my foot planted on the pedal in 6th at 120km up the hill and "Barry" just kept pulling away. No smoke, just great power and response. The bloke gave up trying after that...dont think he liked being passed by a land rover.....








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[LouisW]

Hi Louis,

Plenty of low down torque with a very strong mid range.
I cruise around in fifth at 60kms.......if i need to get in front of someone i put my foot down and the car actually moves......
But the greatest pleasure was when i drove from Melbourne back to Sydney. I had a bloke in a 70 series cruiser who i decided to over take. He wasnt impressed and as the road turned into a long hill climb he tried to catch up with his big "v8 turbo." I could tell he was trying to catch up becuase he was sitting on about 110km and all of a sudden i could see him narrowing the gap.....i was doing 120km as o had overtaken.

I decided to keep my foot planted on the pedal in 6th at 120km up the hill and "Barry" just kept pulling away. No smoke, just great power and response. The bloke gave up trying after that...dont think he liked being passed by a land rover.....








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Thanks mate. One last question does it feel like the motor is less tight and running smoother?

[1nando]

I plan to do the exactly the same to Betty. But was told I should wait for 20k (or at least 10k). Before I do it. However can you please elaborate on how the performance changed.

Rgs Louis

Hi Louis,

Plenty of low down torque with a very strong mid range.
I cruise around in fifth at 60kms.......if i need to get in front of someone i put my foot down and the car actually moves......
But the greatest pleasure was when i drove from Melbourne back to Sydney. I had a bloke in a 70 series cruiser who i decided to over take. He wasnt impressed and as the road turned into a long hill climb he tried to catch up with his big "v8 turbo." I could tell he was trying to catch up becuase he was sitting on about 110km and all of a sudden i could see him narrowing the gap.....i was doing 120km as o had overtaken.

I decided to keep my foot planted on the pedal in 6th at 120km up the hill and "Barry" just kept pulling away. No smoke, just great power and response. The bloke gave up trying after that...dont think he liked being passed by a land rover.....






The power delivery is smoother, the torque increase really makes the engine feel as though its effortless when accelerating.
Despite what people say the 2.2 is a great engine. Its exactly what you want in a 4wd. Its low down torque makes it an excellent 4wd engine. People love the idea of a big v8 diesel in a 4wd.......what a waste of money and diesel in my opinion. I work in the transport and building industry, all our 3 and 5 ton Hinos are 4 cylinder diesel turbo.....according to many on this site they would all be underpowered......they carry tons of sand per day, all day, everyday all year round.

You see the idea is to have an engine that can lug a load all day every day happily. There not race cars, they are working vehicles.
The puma is very similar and i understand land rovers choice. Its built to do a job, and with a remap it is in my opinion a great engine...remeber they are down tuned from factory.

Hope thats helpful

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[MrLandy]

Ive had a Bruce Davis/Alive tune on my 2.2.

Egr switched off and blanked.

Decat with rear muffler removed, only centre muffler kept for some back pressure.

Intercooler

Pulls like a train, runs like a dream, and is a pleasure to drive.



Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

Thanks for your posts 1nando, well said about attributes of puma 2.2 in above post. ...can I ask what your Bruce Davis /Alive tune cost? And how does it compare with BAS 150 and 170 tunes for example?

[LouisW]

Hi Louis,

Plenty of low down torque with a very strong mid range.
I cruise around in fifth at 60kms.......if i need to get in front of someone i put my foot down and the car actually moves......
But the greatest pleasure was when i drove from Melbourne back to Sydney. I had a bloke in a 70 series cruiser who i decided to over take. He wasnt impressed and as the road turned into a long hill climb he tried to catch up with his big "v8 turbo." I could tell he was trying to catch up becuase he was sitting on about 110km and all of a sudden i could see him narrowing the gap.....i was doing 120km as o had overtaken.

I decided to keep my foot planted on the pedal in 6th at 120km up the hill and "Barry" just kept pulling away. No smoke, just great power and response. The bloke gave up trying after that...dont think he liked being passed by a land rover.....






The power delivery is smoother, the torque increase really makes the engine feel as though its effortless when accelerating.
Despite what people say the 2.2 is a great engine. Its exactly what you want in a 4wd. Its low down torque makes it an excellent 4wd engine. People love the idea of a big v8 diesel in a 4wd.......what a waste of money and diesel in my opinion. I work in the transport and building industry, all our 3 and 5 ton Hinos are 4 cylinder diesel turbo.....according to many on this they would all be underpowered......they carry tons of sand per day, all day, everyday all year round.

You see the idea is to have an engine that can lug a load all day every day happily. There not race cars, they are working vehicles.
The puma is very similar and i understand land rovers choice. Its built to do a job, and with a remap it is in my opinion a great engine...remeber they are down tuned from factory.

Hope thats helpful

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I had a 3.9V8 Petrol Auto donated from a Discovery I V8 ES, in my previous 90 and frankly I already prefer the 2.2 Diesel albeit my original plan was to find a rolled, RRS V8 Diesel to replace it. Now I am excited about giving Bruce Davies cart blanch to improve it for me.

[Marty90]

I too have the BD/Alive remap.Initially i had it done to eliminate the flat spot I had from 1st to 2nd,but am very happy with the improved drivability and power increases.I can't compare it to the BAS unit as Bruce never actually quoted power figures,and I never asked.I suppose the advantage of BAS is that you are able to remove/install the remap as it suits you,although I haven't had an issue returning the vehicle for warranty claims.I've recently had the EGR blocked off,both physically and electronically and that did cost a small amount to get the programme from Alive,only because the programme hadn't been developed at the time I had it done initially.Bruce has assured me that if I went ahead with the IC at a later date the upgrade for the ECU will be free.I'm tossing it around whether to go with the larger IC,as it's plenty powerful enough as it is,or is that even possible,I dunno.Maybe I'll change axles and flanges as well:eek:Looking at the cost I think they are comparable.With BAS you get a new ECU,Alive uses your ECU.Personally,I'm not too interested in playing around with the ECU myself,and if anything were to go wrong,I know Bruce is more than happy to help.

[1nando]

Thanks for your posts 1nando, well said about attributes of puma 2.2 in above post. ...can I ask what your Bruce Davis /Alive tune cost? And how does it compare with BAS 150 and 170 tunes for example?

I paid $4400 which included:

decat pipe
Egr blanked
Remap
Intercooler and piping
Terrafirma wheel spacers
Air strut to hold rear door open

Bruce was great to deal with....very happy

I dont know about the BAS tunes as i have no experience with it. I have heard great things however. I believe both Alive and BAS are the best out there

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[1nando]

I too have the BD/Alive remap.Initially i had it done to eliminate the flat spot I had from 1st to 2nd,but am very happy with the improved drivability and power increases.I can't compare it to the BAS unit as Bruce never actually quoted power figures,and I never asked.I suppose the advantage of BAS is that you are able to remove/install the remap as it suits you,although I haven't had an issue returning the vehicle for warranty claims.I've recently had the EGR blocked off,both physically and electronically and that did cost a small amount to get the programme from Alive,only because the programme hadn't been developed at the time I had it done initially.Bruce has assured me that if I went ahead with the IC at a later date the upgrade for the ECU will be free.I'm tossing it around whether to go with the larger IC,as it's plenty powerful enough as it is,or is that even possible,I dunno.Maybe I'll change axles and flanges as well:eek:Looking at the cost I think they are comparable.With BAS you get a new ECU,Alive uses your ECU.Personally,I'm not too interested in playing around with the ECU myself,and if anything were to go wrong,I know Bruce is more than happy to help.

Intercooler is a great idea and a safe investment, both for performance and engine temps.....my 2 cents

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