Collecting parts for R8665256

[Bundalene]

In among other things we acquired a 1948 / 1949 front fish plate chassis and an assortment of parts belonging to this from a collection we bought from Mudgee a while back. These were strewn out over a few acres, in among other Land Rover parts and also old tractor parts etc etc.


Tub with shovel backed seats on the right.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1003.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/hlq09TdVj)






One of my future projects (2 years hence) is to rebuild this vehicle. This could take years!


Items which we have include:

Chassis rust free, Firewall rust free, with ID plate
Rear tub with seat backs attached (in several pieces), Seat box and floor panels with ring pull hole ? no cutout for the gearstick, guards pretty chatty, doors I think
Ring pull gearbox
Front axle assembly hub to hub and Rear axle housing, front and rear springs
Radiator support ? missing headlights
All early brake parts


I am searching for parts to restore this vehicle. I have a 50 build 80 inch which has many generic parts suiting both models, but what parts are unique to the 48 / 49 model.
I don't have the original engine but do have several 1.6 engines which require rebuilding 1 x 1950 build and 2 x 1951 build.






One thing we noted today was that the tow bar bracket on the rear is welded on and not bolted as in later vehicles. Also, what are the extra brackets on the rear of the chassis?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1004.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbxAcWR0j)




Ring pull gearbox
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1005.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbt7cVUvj)



radiator support with Fergie lights
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/704.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/paNyNJ5Zj)



Long nose diff in rebuilt front end
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1006.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbI9ED6fj)




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1007.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p5IXCuIxj)




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1008.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/hluawG5aj)





Known parts required
Date stamped wheels and radiator. Front bumper, long nose diff for the rear.





Any suggestions to the differences from to these early vehicles to say a 57 model would be appreciated. I am going through James Taylor's book again.






Erich

[digger]

looks like 2 x 80" firewalls!!

Hope it goes well

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Eric

You have some real Rocking Horse Stuff there.

Place the belt pulley on the shrine of Land Rover Memorabilia and pay homage to it's entirety every morning.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1003.jpg

The hood bows have been presented to you by an unseen hand and these also must be treated with reverence.

Well done on the find and I will keep an eye open for your list of things that you will be needing.
.

[123rover50]

Good Stuff Erich.
There are a few early ones turning up in OZ now.
The keepers of these have joined the LRSOC and more specifically the
Land Rover Register.
I joined that back in the 80,s when I got the Tickford.
Both clubs have really usefull magazines with The Register dealing with the early 80 inch models. Back issues are available and they are online in the archives as well for members to read.
Land Rover Series One Club (http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php)

Keith

[Aaron IIA]

My '49 has hydrostatic brakes. I don't know how long these continued for, but yours isn't that far after mine. What colour is your chassis? Does your chasis number match the firewall, and be close to axle and gearbox numbers?

Aaron

[JDNSW]

My '49 has hydrostatic brakes. I don't know how long these continued for, but yours isn't that far after mine. What colour is your chassis? Does your chasis number match the firewall, and be close to axle and gearbox numbers?

Aaron

According to Smith, the Hydrastatic (sic) brakes were officially replaced at 8666000, but in practice they used up the supply of parts on hand. And some may have been upgraded later anyway.

John

[Bundalene]

My '49 has hydrostatic brakes. I don't know how long these continued for, but yours isn't that far after mine. What colour is your chassis? Does your chassis number match the firewall, and be close to axle and gearbox numbers?

Aaron

As far as I can tell numbers are in the correct area. I can only read a partial on the rear diff but it begins with an 8 and that is good. The firewall plaque is photographed above.



Chassis number R8665256
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1025.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p8M8ny6fj)





Gearbox 865849
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1026.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p7yKVk85j)





Rear axle housing starts with an eight which is good
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1027.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p5BFe9Tgj)





Front Axle 865434? sounds good.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1028.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/hl6RRkTij)



As for the paint colour, I have looked hard and can't make out original colour, it is very faded or non-existent. I suspect it is the darker bronze green, rather than the lighter green. By James Tayler's book the paint changed in approx June 1949.

I have tried to research the age of this vehicle and the nearest number I can find which makes sense is a number of vehicles between R8667898 and R8667895 were sold between the 15/9/49 and the 29/9/49. Working back makes this a late July 1949 car? Is this in the ball park?



Can someone please advise the difference between hydrostatic, semi hydrostatic or hydraulic brakes of later vehicles or link to a website. I sort of understand I think but not sure.



I have at least 1 set of early brake backing plates without the snail adjuster.





Erich

[JDNSW]

Hydrastatic brakes.

Quoting from Newnes -

"shoes are in constant contact with drums - there are no pulloff springs and no clearance. ....... The brake employs two shoes hinged on a fulcrum pin at the bottom. At the top is a simple wheel cylinder containing a pair of opposed short pistons . Outer end of each piston is slotted to engage tip of adjacent brake shoe. At the bottom of shoes, close to fulcrum point, is a light spring. This is called a "bias" reducing spring, and its purpose is mainly to hold shoes together sufficiently to prevent any tendency of tip of leading shoe to grab and to balance the outward pressure of the wheel cylinder spring........."High spot Lining*" - Later type hydrastatic brakes were fitted with a high spot lining on the leading shoe. Due to direction of rotation of the drum, a slight servo action tends to throw leading shoe into drum causing a tendency towards binding. With the high spot lining the shoe is cut across the entire width, and a spring loaded plunger raises surface of the cut edge a fraction above surrounding lining, thus preventing the leading edge coming in contact with the drum."

They go on to emphasise that the shoes must be accurately ground to the correct radius, and that great care must be taken not to overstretch either the wheel cylinder spring or the bias reducing spring.
* This applies to the Landrover ones.

Hope this helps,

John

[crackers]

This is REAL restoration stuff - find a fan belt and build a car. Well done for taking it on.

What's this book by James Taylor you keep referring to?

[russellrovers]

In among other things we acquired a 1948 / 1949 front fish plate chassis and an assortment of parts belonging to this from a collection we bought from Mudgee a while back. These were strewn out over a few acres, in among other Land Rover parts and also old tractor parts etc etc.


Tub with shovel backed seats on the right.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1003.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/hlq09TdVj)






One of my future projects (2 years hence) is to rebuild this vehicle. This could take years!


Items which we have include:

Chassis rust free, Firewall rust free, with ID plate
Rear tub with seat backs attached (in several pieces), Seat box and floor panels with ring pull hole ? no cutout for the gearstick, guards pretty chatty, doors I think
Ring pull gearbox
Front axle assembly hub to hub and Rear axle housing, front and rear springs
Radiator support ? missing headlights
All early brake parts


I am searching for parts to restore this vehicle. I have a 50 build 80 inch which has many generic parts suiting both models, but what parts are unique to the 48 / 49 model.
I don't have the original engine but do have several 1.6 engines which require rebuilding 1 x 1950 build and 2 x 1951 build.






One thing we noted today was that the tow bar bracket on the rear is welded on and not bolted as in later vehicles. Also, what are the extra brackets on the rear of the chassis?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1004.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbxAcWR0j)




Ring pull gearbox
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1005.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbt7cVUvj)



radiator support with Fergie lights
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/704.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/paNyNJ5Zj)



Long nose diff in rebuilt front end
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1006.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbI9ED6fj)




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1007.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p5IXCuIxj)




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/1008.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/hluawG5aj)





Known parts required
Date stamped wheels and radiator. Front bumper, long nose diff for the rear.





Any suggestions to the differences from to these early vehicles to say a 57 model would be appreciated. I am going through James Taylor's book again.






Erich hi i have in stock one long nose diff also 11 48 radiator also guards and doors and a very nice tub all these parts are in first class condition also a complete guages for the 80 inch my present restoration is chassi no 8665291 april 14 th 1949 your no 8665256 which makes it 35 in front of mine i would say build date april 7 1949 approxi also have put on the forum for sale 2 early 1600 motors also your colour is sage green your landy is very rare and highly colletable if you need any help be free to phone me regards jim

[Bundalene]

This is REAL restoration stuff - find a fan belt and build a car. Well done for taking it on.

What's this book by James Taylor you keep referring to?

A good read for a Series 1 Land Rover person, it goes through changes in models as they occurred. This link is from the Book Depository but this is available from many sellers.


Original Land Rover Series 1: The Restorer's Guide to Civil & Military Models 1948-58 : James Taylor : 9781906133153 (http://www.bookdepository.com/Original-Land-Rover-Series-1-James-Taylor/9781906133153)




Erich

[crackers]

A good read for a Series 1 Land Rover person, it goes through changes in models as they occurred. This link is from the Book Depository but this is available from many sellers.


Original Land Rover Series 1: The Restorer's Guide to Civil & Military Models 1948-58 : James Taylor : 9781906133153 (http://www.bookdepository.com/Original-Land-Rover-Series-1-James-Taylor/9781906133153)




Erich

Ordered.
I'd actually seen this book before but not knowing what it was, I was planning to ask. Thanks for the tip. :D

[Bundalene]

my present restoration is chassi no 8665291 april 14 th 1949 your no 8665256 which makes it 35 in front of mine i would say build date april 7 1949 approxi, also your colour is sage green your landy is very rare and highly collectible if you need any help be free to phone me regards jim

Thank you Jim for that information. That must mean about a 5 month time frame from the original build date until the delivery date.





Erich

[123rover50]

This just sold in the UK for 25000 quid:o
http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25447.0;attach=581 09;image

Keith

[Pedro_The_Swift]

pardon my question but,,
did they have any models stocked up before the big release show?(was it geneva?)

[Dinty]

I always thought the show was in Amsterdam 1948, cheers Dennis

[Pedro_The_Swift]

oh dear, only 900 kays away in a S1!!;)

[JDNSW]

pardon my question but,,
did they have any models stocked up before the big release show?(was it geneva?)

They had no vehicles ready for Geneva, so the Landrover was unveiled at Amsterdam show in May? 1948. Two were sent to the show, but at that time eight out of 48 pre-production vehicles existed, the first leaving the factory on 11th March. Many changes were made during the production of these forty-eight, and it is unlikely any two were exactly the same. For example, both the ones at Amsterdam had push-pull transfer case controls coming out of the firewall.

John

[russellrovers]

Thank you Jim for that information. That must mean about a 5 month time frame from the original build date until the delivery date.





Erichhi eric been incontact with my leads in uk they have one 20x20 ampmeter leftbrass bodied and tested WILL CLEAN UP NICE 135 POUNDS PLUS POSTAGE 12 POUNDS ALSO SPOKE ABOUT THE OIL LIGHT BRASSOIL PLATE THEY SAID THEY WILL LOOK AROUND TO SEE WHAT THEY CAN DO REGARDS JIM

[Bundalene]

Are these the correct lights / buckets for my vehicle. These came with the parts which I stored away, to be found this morning. They are 5 inch Lucas and came with other parts from rhis vehicle. The two buckets appear to be different.


I have read conflicting tales on this Forum on whether these should be Lucas or Butler lights?







https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/725.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbPnVXkbj)




The light on the right has the lens
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/726.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p7nxpjhMj)






https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/727.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p7rH5dQkj)





https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/728.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p3FsumXJj)





Erich

[digger]

They should be Lucas,
In summary:-


The genuine 1948 does not have Lucas written on it. It has the genuine part number (552282) on the inside edge and the date (eg "48/6") pressed into the glass also on the inside at the edge opposite the number

Butlers and Lucas tractor lenses all have the name on them. (so easy to eliminate)

Only the 48 Land rover lense is dead flat (inside has vertical ribs)

The Dia. of the Butler is 135mm and the Lucas 137mm

The original Lucas Reflector is not held in with clips like the Butler.

The original Glass (48-49) has lots of evenly spaced tiny ribs running vertically. Replacement ones have some of the ribs missing so look different but still have the same number.

The reflector on an original has the bulb fitted from the front whereas the Butler and tractor types have a detachable bulb holder at the rear.

The body on an original Lucas is different than a Butler.
1) The Lucas mount is spot welded on the inside. If you look at the Butler it is riveted on the outside so looks different
2) The rim by the reflector is turned up at the edge to hold the U shaped rubber that holds the reflector to the body

The correct lens glass is still held in with 4 spring clips to the headlight rim.
A Butler is different because the clips hold the glass and reflector


there is a thread on the LR Series one club that is fantastic as it explains all the things to look for etc,

Login (http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=20814.0)

--http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=20814.20--


includes photos! You need to be a member to view it, but it is a valuable resource I reckon.

This all 'stolen" from the above thread but much better with the photos that accompanies them!! But for a second there you guys thought I actually knew something! :twisted::D

cheers

[digger]

Are these the correct lights / buckets for my vehicle. These came with the parts which I stored away, to be found this morning. They are 5 inch Lucas and came with other parts from rhis vehicle. The two buckets appear to be different.


I have read conflicting tales on this Forum on whether these should be Lucas or Butler lights


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/725.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbPnVXkbj)
The light on the right has the lens
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/726.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p7nxpjhMj)






https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/727.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p7rH5dQkj)





https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/728.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p3FsumXJj)





Erich



Using the info in the post above we can deduce:-,
these are tractor lights by Lucas as they have the name embossed into the lens.

Also the one with the rivetted back/bowl is a Butler.

The square shape of the lens/headlight rim is correct,

Hope this helps

[1950landy]

Your chassis may have been painted silver , the 48's chassis was painted silver , I am not sure when they started painting them green. Also some of the early ones had a galv chassis .

[Dark61]

from "Original Land - Rover series 1 book by James Taylor:


"The earliest Chassis frames were painted matt silver , and probably used on the first 4500 vehicles (up to 866-4500). The Chassis colour then changed to light green to match the body colour, and remained so until 866-6000 in June 1949 apprx. Thereafter the colour became bronze green to match the new body colour introduced at that stage" etc


I think the pre-production models were all galvanised. I'm unsure when they switched to black.
cheers,
D

[russellrovers]

from "Original Land - Rover series 1 book by James Taylor:


"The earliest Chassis frames were painted matt silver , and probably used on the first 4500 vehicles (up to 866-4500). The Chassis colour then changed to light green to match the body colour, and remained so until 866-6000 in June 1949 apprx. Thereafter the colour became bronze green to match the new body colour introduced at that stage" etc


I think the pre-production models were all galvanised. I'm unsure when they switched to black.
cheers,
D i think your number are wrong

[Dark61]

i think your number are wrong


which numbers Mate?


I'm quoting from the book, page 23.


cheers,
D

[Bundalene]

They should be Lucas,
In summary:-


The genuine 1948 does not have Lucas written on it. It has the genuine part number (552282) on the inside edge and the date (eg "48/6") pressed into the glass also on the inside at the edge opposite the number

Butlers and Lucas tractor lenses all have the name on them. (so easy to eliminate)

Only the 48 Land rover lense is dead flat (inside has vertical ribs)

The Dia. of the Butler is 135mm and the Lucas 137mm

The original Lucas Reflector is not held in with clips like the Butler.

The original Glass (48-49) has lots of evenly spaced tiny ribs running vertically. Replacement ones have some of the ribs missing so look different but still have the same number.

The reflector on an original has the bulb fitted from the front whereas the Butler and tractor types have a detachable bulb holder at the rear.

The body on an original Lucas is different than a Butler.
1) The Lucas mount is spot welded on the inside. If you look at the Butler it is riveted on the outside so looks different
2) The rim by the reflector is turned up at the edge to hold the U shaped rubber that holds the reflector to the body

The correct lens glass is still held in with 4 spring clips to the headlight rim.
A Butler is different because the clips hold the glass and reflector


there is a thread on the LR Series one club that is fantastic as it explains all the things to look for etc,

Login (http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=20814.0)

--http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=20814.20--


includes photos! You need to be a member to view it, but it is a valuable resource I reckon.

This all 'stolen" from the above thread but much better with the photos that accompanies them!! But for a second there you guys thought I actually knew something! :twisted::D

cheers

Thank you very much for that Information. I am a member of the Series 1 Forum and should have looked there first. I did read several posts on AULRO but they were not conclusive. The info on the S1 post is great.


Looks like I may have tractor lights. At the end of the day, the vehicle did come from a farm mechanic and he told me the lights he fitted into the radiator support were Fergie lights. The lights in the previous post pic were in another shed on his property.


I will go through his tractor stuff armed with some photos, next time we are up there. We are off O/S for 5 weeks shortly.










This is as the unit came, the lights look wrong
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/704.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/paNyNJ5Zj)










Erich

[russellrovers]

which numbers Mate?


I'm quoting from the book, page 23.


cheers,
Di got the wrong numbers

[Bundalene]

Today we gathered all the panels which I think belonged to this vehicle, I could be wrong with the tail gate. At the end of the day, most of the original vehicle (panels) are still together. Also the car is now out of the weather and into the shed, along with the 109 Series 1


Rolling front fish plate chassis with correct springs, wrong spring plates on the front at this stage. Correct front diff and housing. The chassis is straight, only surface rust, only 1 repair required to a dent in the 2nd cross member. Wrong lights. No radiator at this stage but I have one on order from Jim at Russell Rovers. Front guards require lots of work.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/682.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbZRig24j)






The bonnet has no spare tyre mounts, I think that is correct. The firewall also has only surface rust.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/683.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pa3Nf8znj)




Seat box covers have the correct hinges, The floor plates have correct holes in the right places, Both doors are here but require lots of work.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/684.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p81r2JgLj)






The rear tub is very sad, not sure if it is usable. The rear quarter was removed for repairs previously

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/685.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pb0tzDuJj)



Seat backs correct.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/686.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p3jKqJR8j)






Not certain whether I chose the correct tail gate, I have 4 and can only rule 1 out with later hinges. The tail gate does not slide into the hinge, something may be bent or incorrect?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/911/EPxRVw.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbEPxRVwj)





I must find the correct windscreen surround as well.



A few bolts, install an engine and some other bits and she will be ready for rego. After we get back from holidays


Erich