92 Classic Steering box

[DoubleChevron]

Hi Guys,

I've just spent a couple of weeks dragging a 23foot long, 2.5ton caravan all over Victoria (yes we found every bloody mountain range to climb :wasntme: ). The old POS Rangie did a bloody amazing job. This morning I dropped the caravan off and backed the car around to go to work ................... And the steering jammned :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I crawled under it and couldn't find any evidence of sticks or anything jammed up in the front end. So I tried moving it from lock to lock in the drive and it would jam and unjam and random with horrible crunching sounds.

Please tell me the failure mode of a steering box in one of these things ins't the steering locking up on you :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: If feels like the gears inside the steering box are coming out of mesh and jamming against each other. It's strange 'cos there is absolutely no wear at all in this steering box, it travels dead straight and never wanders.

Let me guess, I need to adjust the nut on the top of the steering box down to bring the gears back into mesh :confused: What a bizzare design (obviously today I'm not driving it).

Bloody scary to think yesterday I was hauling down the road at 90km/h with a bloody great block of flats clipped to the towbar!

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

Usually it's the universal joints in the shaft from the steering column to box that fail, have you looked under the bonnet?

[DoubleChevron]

I did have a quick look under the bonnet and couldn't see anything untoward. Given I was already running 20minutes late I didn't spend a lot of time on it. It definitely "feels" like gears unmeshing and jamming sadly. I'll lift the front of it tonight and hunt around while someone turns the steering wheel. Obviously it doesn't leave the yard until it's fixed :wasntme:

Then it's onto rebuilding the boge that I found is definitely NOT upto the task of leveling the back.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/500.jpg

seeya,
Shane L.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I did have a quick look under the bonnet and couldn't see anything untoward. ...<snip>
Then it's onto rebuilding the boge that I found is definitely NOT upto the task of leveling the back.

<image deleted>

seeya,
Shane L.Hi Shane

I'd forget about the Boge, firstly they only pump up the back body when the vehicle is in motion, but the worst part about them is that they put the pressure in the middle of the axle. IMHO this makes the RR into a tricycle with mass overhanging each side of the rear pivot and therefore unstable.

I much prefer Polyair springs inside the rear coils which you inflate to get the correct ride height and return the stability to the rear end. It's what I have had in both my 1980 2 door and my 1985 4 door (the MY85 is still in my collection and still has the PolyAirs, and no it no longer has the Boge)

Diana

[PhilipA]

From your description it is almost certainly the UJs in the steering column.

You can soldier on by sitting them in a can of oil overnight and moving them back and forward , but a new column is the answer.
Regards Philip A

[DoubleChevron]

Thanks Guys,

I'll check the steering column tonight. I'll definitely replace or repair. I certainly don't want it jamming up at speed :eek:

The Boge ?? It really does interest me. In theory it appears to be a tri-cycle, I can't believe Rover engineers will have got it that wrong. If polyairs were superior, they would have used them rather than the boge. They would certainly be cheaper for the factory to use. The boge appears to be a dampened hydraulic strut. So could also be used as a shock absorber.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/931.jpg

As long as there is no deteriorated rubber diaphragms around the nitrogen space (pressure chambers), we should be able to just freshen up the seals through it and it'll work again. I've been trying to find details on them. It appears to be charged to 25bar, so if we can release that, I can see what I need to do to reseal the pump. I manage to get 75bar of nitrogen into Citroen Spheres, so I imagine I can figure out a way of getting 25bar back into the pressure chamber.

seeya,
Shane L.
PS: Wouldn't there be lots of slop in the steeing if the column had flogged out universal joints? This one has absolutely no slop in the steering at all :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Shane

The Boge was an original fitting in the very first Range Rover in 1970 so it was ancient technology when your Rangie was built. The Boge was discontinued when the EAS Range Rover was introduced.

Doesn't that answer your question?

It is also worth noting that while 110 County 5 doors had the Boge, load carrying 110 like cab chassis and perentie don't have them. What the PolyAirs do is effectively change the spring rate without changing the springs every time.

However there is no problem of having both the Boge and PolyAir, as I have LPG tank in the rear, a 120 litre fuel tank, rear spare wheel carrier and frequently tow car trailers, I chose to fit higher rated springs and PolyAirs. The Boge was only removed by Coopers when I had the ball joint mount on the diff tear off the housing, mostly because it was neither working or of use with the PolyAirs.

Diana

[DoubleChevron]

Hi Shane

The Boge was an original fitting in the very first Range Rover in 1970 so it was ancient technology when your Rangie was built. The Boge was discontinued when the EAS Range Rover was introduced.

Doesn't that answer your question?

It is also worth noting that while 110 County 5 doors had the Boge, load carrying 110 like cab chassis and perentie don't have them. What the PolyAirs do is effectively change the spring rate without changing the springs every time.

However there is no problem of having both the Boge and PolyAir, as I have LPG tank in the rear, a 120 litre fuel tank, rear spare wheel carrier and frequently tow car trailers, I chose to fit higher rated springs and PolyAirs. The Boge was only removed by Coopers when I had the ball joint mount on the diff tear off the housing, mostly because it was neither working or of use with the PolyAirs.

Diana

We'll see how it works I guess. The boge seems to be used into the late 90's on a wide range of vehicles named "nivomat" and used as a self levelling shocker.

I agree polyairs are good. My brother has them in the arse end of his Pajero. I'll get everything sorted as it left them factory first .... Then see how it works before adding aftermarket aids there. Though polyairs are certainly the simplest approach. If I can't repair it after pulling it apart, I guess the issue will be irrelevant either way :)

I don't think the fact it is 1970's technology means it's inferior. Just like with Citroens they could well be vastly supperior in every possible way ........................ But more expensive to manufacture ............... so avoided at all costs by the manufactures. After all, look how ****house modern Citroens are compared to the cars from the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. they are fitted with garbage springs rather than hydraulics, trying to compete with the koreans to see who is the quickest to the bottom of the heap.

I can't understand why Range Rover didn't go full hydraulic under patent from Citroen like rolls/merc/etc.... Hydraulics are far, far, far more reliable and long lived than air.

seeya,
shane L.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Shane

IMHO the Boge hydramat were a compromise between self levelling function and articulation.

Certainly a pair of hydramat outboard would have provided superior stability, but would have reduced articulation where the central mounted hydramat was both cheaper on build and didn't inhibit articulation, but came at a stability cost.

[DoubleChevron]

Hi Shane

IMHO the Boge hydramat were a compromise between self levelling function and articulation.

Certainly a pair of hydramat outboard would have provided superior stability, but would have reduced articulation where the central mounted hydramat was both cheaper on build and didn't inhibit articulation, but came at a stability cost.

Actually, if you think about it ... If they are outboard, they would prevent any upward articulation, as it would level that wheel back to the set height, so lift the other side off the ground as it does it.... Just like Citroens do (they pickup and carry a wheel at the drop of a hat... that's why you can drive them with 3wheels on). So it MUST be centrally mounted. Interesting :)

seeya,
shane L.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

And it's why RRc are prone to rollovers on downwards sloping bends.

[Scouse]

Wouldn't there be lots of slop in the steeing if the column had flogged out universal joints? This one has absolutely no slop in the steering at all :)They don't flog out, they seize up.
As Phillip said, soaking them in oil can give them a new lease of life.


**Just checking on the part itself & they seem to be rather cheap these days. I seem to recall they were rather expensive a few years ago which is why I resuscitated mine instead of replacing it.

[DoubleChevron]

Well that's just bizarre.... It definitely isn't in the column from what I can see. I can't see anything wrong anywhere. Everything is tight as a drum. I got my wife to wind it from lock to lock and it often jams at center turning left. It appears it's the front left that releases with a crack. I guess next is to pop the ball joints at the steering rod ends and try and isolate where the issue is. It rolls from lock to lock nice, tight and smooth until it locks.... hmmm...

By steering column uni's, you don't mean up under the dash do you ? The ones under the bonnet look fine (the rubber coupling certainly looks past its use by date .... but isn't sloppy).

seeya,
shane L.

[Scouse]

By steering column uni's, you don't mean up under the dash do you ? The ones under the bonnet look fine (the rubber coupling certainly looks past its use by date .... but isn't sloppy).

seeya,
shane L.It's the one closest to the steering box:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[DoubleChevron]

It's the one closest to the steering box:
https://www.lrdirect.com/images/T/NRC7387.jpg

I'll check it... Can it seize and release with a loud crack from the left front though ?? It's dead smooth until it locks around centre. The steering isn't tight at all.... It just locks and you need to rock it until you get a loud crack and it releases. I'm thinking a seized balljoint possibly. I'll pop them all off and check. You know it is going to be that uni-joint after I've wasted hours looking elsewhere...... Just like everyone is telling me :angel:

[Scouse]

In my experience I've never heard a loud crack but it's certainly very unnerving when it binds/releases, usually at 90deg intervals IIRC.

[PhilipA]

Have a look that you haven't dented your steering damper on something.

I doubt whether a tie rod end would make a noise. Usually to check them you have someone turn the wheel while you grab the tie rod end in your hand/fist and you can feel any slackness by the top of the joint rising in your hand ie expanding .

Other possibility could be a CV joint self destructing, or finally the pivot bearings breaking up, and you should be able to test by jacking up the wheel and feeling for up and down play.


Regards Philip A
Look the first thing you should do is eliminate the UJs by taking out the column. Its only a matter of undoing 2 pinch bolts and then sliding the top UJ up and the bottom one will come off the spline. then you can feel whether the joints are binding.

[DoubleChevron]

And the winner is ................................. THE BLOODY STEERING DAMPENER .... I'd never have guessed that one. It's still working but can lock around dead centre. Bizzare or what :)

I popped the balljoint from the front left wheel so the steering assembly was disconnected from the wheels.... and when I moved the wheels by hand they still bound up around center. The dampener was still nice and tight, but when I disconnected it everything floated around freely without any binding or locking around center. I'm guessing it's developed a heavy wear mark around center as that's where it mostly sits for the 290,000km the car has now done.

I'll just remove the dampener until I can source another.

seeya,
Shane L.

[discojools]

Shane,

Your Rangie will not be very nice without a steering damper.. Just a warning!

Jools.

[DoubleChevron]

Shane,

Your Rangie will not be very nice without a steering damper.. Just a warning!

Jools.

The steering is a lot lighter.... I've found hitting potholes mid-corner sure isn't nice though.... It really does dampen the steering kickback a huge amount.

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

Well I've changed my mind ..... I was just driving through a carpark, and got a lot of cracks and crunches from the front end as I turned the steering wheel. Tonight I'll test that damper I pulled off ....... I reckon it'll test fine .... and the issue is I'll have a frozen ball joint in the cross bar between the two front wheels. I bet one of its balljoints is full of rust and water if I peal the boots back. The damper loading the balljoint will have been causing it to lock. Only one way to find out ...................................... :)

I reckon the Viscous coupling in the transfer case must have thrown in the towel from towing the caravan too.... I've been spinning front and back wheels over the last 3 days ..... Never has it ever slipped a wheel over the last 6months .... Not even on wet grass or mud let alone slightly damp sealed roads. I guess locking "open" can be considered very much a positive. Better than locking closed and trashing the driveline.

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

Are you sure you haven't got a smashed CV or rusted swivel housing lower bearing? I'd be jacking up the front axle and swivelling and rotating all the drive bits to see what's up. Put your transfer case into neutral to see if the viscous is indeed stuffed.

[DoubleChevron]

Are you sure you haven't got a smashed CV or rusted swivel housing lower bearing? I'd be jacking up the front axle and swivelling and rotating all the drive bits to see what's up. Put your transfer case into neutral to see if the viscous is indeed stuffed.

That is possible, it was smooth and free when I disconnected the front left ball joint from the steering box and moved the front wheels through the full range of movement with the damper removed. unloaded there may no signs of binding or grabbing. If the ball joints prove ok, I guess I'll have to dismantle the swivels next to check them. I'm used to issue showing up from slop, not random binding :)

How does putting the transfer case into neutral test the viscous unit? I'm guessing it's to remove the drag of the main gearbox when you jack a wheel to see if it'll readily spin.

OH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BROKEN CV ........ Say, spinning wheels .... is saying the power isn't being transfered to both axles.... Oh crap. Is there a simple way to check the CV's ? They are hidden in the swivels probably. With that suggestion you have just tied together two separate issues that suddenly have appeared in the last few days.

I'm driving home like an old women tonight.... I reckon you have nailed it. It'll have a broken 'CV .... and I bet the damn viscous unit is locked shut and caused this failure.

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

I've never played with the axles before ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM4kDyWyxv8

it looks like we just slide the CV out with the axle unit from the diff center. I reckon looking at splines will cause me to want to rebuild everything I look at sadly :wasntme:

This guys videos are quite good for somoene that has never touched any of this before (especially someone that sucks at reading manuals like me :D ).

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

Well in typical "ME" fashion.... All I had to do was ignore it long enough and the problem become blatantly obvoius. As I left work, the front end gave two louds CRACKS in a straight line ....... Really, really obvious CV joint failure sounds ( I own lots of front wheel drives and have had driveshaft failures before).

See just wait until I'm stranded on the side of the road and I can work anything out :wasntme: It was a fun drive home at walking pace trying to keep the steering wheel as straight as possible either way :angel:

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

well that paints a sad story...



http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102183&stc=1&d=1448101093

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102182&stc=1&d=1448101093

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102181&stc=1&d=1448101093

I guess the car was still driving hapily along the road mean the viscous center diff is certainly locked :(

[Mercguy]

I have your answer :d

Mercedes SLS struts & levelling valve.

If you can rebuild a citroen, then the sachs SLS damper will be a piece of cake. reshimming to spec will be easy. setting preload is as simple as placing a load over the rear axle and adjusting the actuator linkage.
You'll of course need an engine driven pump, but that's not hard to achieve, and a pair of nitrogen spheres from rexroth or even butcher your citroen ones.... but the principal is pretty straightforward and works well.

The only difference on the SLS mercedes cars is the spring rate is reduced. on an rrc, I doubt a reduction would be required, as the hydraulic struts are assisting the coils as well as controlling the damping. It's just a matter of getting the correct damping rates.

I have already given this serious consideration in my RRC.
Note: I am not talking about the full 4-corner hydropneumatic suspension on the w116 450SEL 6.9, which is a ridiculously expensive setup. I'm referring to the self-levelling struts. These can also be used on all 4 corners with ride height adjustment, not unlike the EAS, however if one was going to that extreme, the EAS would likely be cheaper, as it was already available on later rrc's.

I prefer the ride of coils.

There also used to be a brand of shock absorbers called hi-jackers, which was a crude but extremely effective solution. I remember my old man used them on his HJ prem when towing the boat. worked like a charm. pump them up with a bike pump or servo compressor etc... dead simple and effective.

[DoubleChevron]

I have your answer :d

Mercedes SLS struts & levelling valve.

If you can rebuild a citroen, then the sachs SLS damper will be a piece of cake. reshimming to spec will be easy. setting preload is as simple as placing a load over the rear axle and adjusting the actuator linkage.
You'll of course need an engine driven pump, but that's not hard to achieve, and a pair of nitrogen spheres from rexroth or even butcher your citroen ones.... but the principal is pretty straightforward and works well.

The only difference on the SLS mercedes cars is the spring rate is reduced. on an rrc, I doubt a reduction would be required, as the hydraulic struts are assisting the coils as well as controlling the damping. It's just a matter of getting the correct damping rates.

I have already given this serious consideration in my RRC.
Note: I am not talking about the full 4-corner hydropneumatic suspension on the w116 450SEL 6.9, which is a ridiculously expensive setup. I'm referring to the self-levelling struts. These can also be used on all 4 corners with ride height adjustment, not unlike the EAS, however if one was going to that extreme, the EAS would likely be cheaper, as it was already available on later rrc's.

I prefer the ride of coils.

There also used to be a brand of shock absorbers called hi-jackers, which was a crude but extremely effective solution. I remember my old man used them on his HJ prem when towing the boat. worked like a charm. pump them up with a bike pump or servo compressor etc... dead simple and effective.

I'm pretty sure the 450SEL uses Citroen suspension under patent ..... simplest suspension in the world to work on and repair :) The problem is your local grease monkey won't have a clue how it works. If you have one of them send me a photo of it's suspension spheres ....... I might be able to recharge them for you.

The problem with all the "helper" air bags is they are going to completely kill any axle articulation, this is why rover hasn't used them (though to be honest, if your towing you don't need axle articulation). Google up polyairs, these seem to be a much better alternative than the old air shocks you could pump up. They are a bag the fits inside the coil spring that you can add air too. Very effective, and you can just let them down when not towing.

I'm going to try rebuilding the boge first. I've been sent the details on the nivomats fitted under the rover SD1's last night. I'll see if I can attach it here for everyone. If not I'll have to sort out some hosting somewhere.

edit; brilliant !!! This site has let me upload a 6meg pdf.... Wow that's a generous file upload allowance!

seeya,
Shane L.

[dungarover]

That's not a pretty sight :eek:

When I broke mine in the 76 Rangie 2 door I had a few years back it was completely dry, was more thick grease than any sort of oil must have been running like that for years. What I learnt is that if the swivel leaks, it has oil and if it stops, start getting suspicious :cool:

Yes I agree, your BW transfer has seized. Guess it's time for a Lt230 replacement :mad:

Trav

[DoubleChevron]

Yeah I've chased up an LT230 from the guy out at enfield.... Stupidly I didn't notice the selector mechanism isn't on it until after he'd left .... Hopefully he's still got it out at his place. I guess I'll soon work out if the output shaft on the gearbox and front driveshaft is the same.

I'll have to grab a 'cv from you at some point too :) There's no rush, I still need to extract the old transfer case and refit the lt230 (after chasing up the selector and diff lock mechanism for it).

He does have a full 5spd conversion kit there from a disco I could buy .... damn it no $$$ at the moment though :( Especially just before christmas!

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102403&stc=1&d=1448676102

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102404&stc=1&d=1448676102

Well I manage to source and LT230 locally .... Yes I'm sure everyone noticed right away the problem I was to dopey to notice until today.

Anyway, I've been trying to read up on this conversion, all I can find is I "may" need a new output shaft in the slugomatic gearbox .... and "may" need a disco front driveshaft. We'll see I guess. The LT230 above is apparently from a slugomatic V8 disco.

[img]http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102405&stc=1&d=1448676102

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102407&stc=1&d=1448676102

The borg warner transfer case look remarkably clean externally. mouse **** and all :)

I've also read about "drilling out the center" of the tranny tunnel ... whatever that means .... Well, any that was quite obvious if you remove the console.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102408&stc=1&d=1448676467

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102409&stc=1&d=1448676467

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102410&stc=1&d=1448676467

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102411&stc=1&d=1448676467


Other than the fact I was to stupid to notice the selector and diff lock mechanism isn't there ..... What other checks do I need to do on the LT230 before fitting ? It appears the input shaft spline is good. Do I need to check the output shaft spline ?

The guy I bought it from also has all the bits there to do a 5spd conversion ..... Damn it all, I just don't have the $$$ at the moment :(

seeya,
Shane L.[

[DoubleChevron]

I feel really dumb for not noticing a week ago ............... can someone tell me what size SPLINE socket I need to remove the transfer case :angel: I have Etorx sockets, A/F, single hex, metric, male torx, male splines, male alan ..... but no bloody female spline sockets :wasntme:

seeya
Shane L.
PS: I wanna repeatedly kick the arse of whoever tightened the prop shaft nuts front and back. TIGHT .... damn, so tight I rounded one and had to grind down a 1/4 single hex socket to fit.... then use adapters to go out to half inch ratchets to get the leverage to loosen it. How on earth had the bolts not sheered !!

[DoubleChevron]

Yeah well I sure aren't bright .... I thought this bolt was a spline. It's a double hex (I've never come across one of these bolts before and I've been working on cars since I was 12years old !! ).

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102584&stc=1&d=1449056650

anyway. I learnt another thing... I dropped the gearbox down onto the gearbox crossmember and dropped the transfer case off

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102583&stc=1&d=1449056650

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102582&stc=1&d=1449056650

Yeah, don't do that ... the output shaft is longer than you think, and you'll end up with the transfer case snared on the output shaft. Output shafts aren't designed to have this sort of load placed on them.

Anyway, I'll just remove the gearbox crossmember and drop it out on the weekend.

I still need to chase up a 'cv joint and a selector for the top of the LT230 .... Just as well I'm never in a hurry to get stuff done :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[superquag]

Well in typical "ME" fashion.... All I had to do was ignore it long enough and the problem become blatantly obvoius. As I left work, the front end gave two louds CRACKS in a straight line ....... Really, really obvious CV joint failure sounds ( I own lots of front wheel drives and have had driveshaft failures before).

seeya,
Shane L.

... which is why, as soon as I became aware that 'Sarah' was taking a wider course on Round-A-Bouts... that I removed the front prop shaft and stored it in the back....

Now, as a RWD I can drift the back end out as I hoon 'round the corners and bendy-bits....

- Betcha you carnt do that in YORS !!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Seriously, 'Vicious' Couplings are well known for shortning the lives of front CVs, uni's on the shaft and front diffs.
- Not to mention your wallet !

They almost never die in the open mode.... Pity.

On a Classic, the output shaft (to the rear prop shaft) tends to wear a lot faster than on a P38, which prefers to chew the 'Morse' chain.- so I've been told... :(

James in Gosnells,

'95 Vogue, RWD SE with working air suspension.
- Don't mention the leaky sunroof....

[DoubleChevron]

... which is why, as soon as I became aware that 'Sarah' was taking a wider course on Round-A-Bouts... that I removed the front prop shaft and stored it in the back....

Now, as a RWD I can drift the back end out as I hoon 'round the corners and bendy-bits....

- Betcha you carnt do that in YORS !!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Seriously, 'Vicious' Couplings are well known for shortning the lives of front CVs, uni's on the shaft and front diffs.
- Not to mention your wallet !

They almost never die in the open mode.... Pity.

On a Classic, the output shaft (to the rear prop shaft) tends to wear a lot faster than on a P38, which prefers to chew the 'Morse' chain.- so I've been told... :(

James in Gosnells,

'95 Vogue, RWD SE with working air suspension.
- Don't mention the leaky sunroof....

It failed when I was towing a caravan ..... so didn't spot that it was scrubbing tires :(

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

well I dropped the borg warner transfer out finally.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102933&stc=1&d=1449889256

I was surprised to find the output gear looked quite good.... I was expecting it to be trashed.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102937&d=1449889256

So I used a torch to have a look at the input gear ................ And it has a cross drilled input gear .... I thought only really late LT230's had that (the disco one here doesn't that I'm about to fit). So I figured this BW has been rebuilt.... So I whipped off the viscous unit to check it.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102936&d=1449889256

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102935&d=1449889256/img]

[img]http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102934&d=1449889256

You know, there no external signs of leakage or failure. I reckon this box may well be a milage recent rebuild ( though likely many years ago... I don't think this car has done a lot of miles in recent times).

Do you think towing a block of flats from Healesville -> Kinglake spending 40minutes at low speed winding from steering lock to stearing lock tricked this into locking up and trashing the driveline :confused:

Oh well, it's getting an LT230 either way. If anyone wants this transfer case let me know. I'll whip in in half and check the chain for wear if anyone wants to use it.

seeya,
shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

Ok, so I've definitely trashed the input seal on the transfer case. probably trashed the output seal on the transmission too. I've just screamed abuse at the bloody thing for an hour trying to get the transfer case on ..... No go, the LT230 is way narrawer so much easier to get in and out of place the the borg warner. No matter what I try I can't get the bloody thing to slide on though. I'm guessing I have the angle slightly wrong, the rotation slightly wrong, or the transmission versus transfer case angle slightly wrong. A few times I managed to get the splines to line up and partially slide on by turning both output shafts on the transfer case. No I haven't got a a dowel in both the gearbox and transfer case ( I haven't managed to get it that close yet).

I'm guessing the trick is having an assistant to tell you exactly which way it needs to go while your trying to fit it?

Can anyone tell me the size of the LT230 input seal ........................... Maybe there cheaper by the dozen .... 'Cos I sure a **** reckon I"ll need a dozen of the bastards before I get this pig back together :wasntme:

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

Sounds like you're not using guide pins. Cut the heads off two 150mm long M10 bolts and screw them in one on each side into the back plate of the trans, unscrew the pins and fit those two bolts when its all together. The guide pins ensure the output spline can't touch the seal in the transfer case. Make sure all the hand brake components are removed, makes it loads easier to handle. Engage high range and cdl before fitting so you can turn either output flange to engage the input splines.

[DoubleChevron]

Sounds like you're not using guide pins. Cut the heads off two 150mm long M10 bolts and screw them in one on each side into the back plate of the trans, unscrew the pins and fit those two bolts when its all together. The guide pins ensure the output spline can't touch the seal in the transfer case. Make sure all the hand brake components are removed, makes it loads easier to handle. Engage high range and cdl before fitting so you can turn either output flange to engage the input splines.

That's an excellent idea. I'm assuming you use very long bolts so you can double nut them to remove and fit the bolts back in.

I might try slinging the Transfer case through the floor from the engine crane rather than beneath with the trolley jack. If it wasn't so awkward laying under the car I could just lift it on by hand!

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

That's an excellent idea. I'm assuming you use very long bolts so you can double nut them to remove and fit the bolts back in.

I might try slinging the Transfer case through the floor from the engine crane rather than beneath with the trolley jack. If it wasn't so awkward laying under the car I could just lift it on by hand!

seeya,
Shane L.
No need to double nut them, just cut a slot across the end and screw them out, they should be little more than finger tight. HT bolts are better than mild steel all thread as you can rest the weight of the transfer on them and they slide better.

To raise a transfer case, bolt a flat plate under the box using some short bits of flat steel off the angled bottom plate attachment bolts, and a trolley jack. Better still fit an extended sump, the finned alloy thing, that works well on a regular trolley jack. When my mate and I changed the viscous tc out of his '94 soft dash, refitting the LT230 took us mere minutes with these helpful bits.

[DoubleChevron]

OK, I chased up the bolts and a new transfer case input seal (it's a huge help having rover parts 5minutes drive from my front fence). As soon as it's not over 40degrees in the shed I'll try fitting the LT230 up. Interestingly enough I ran into the guy that sold me the LT230 at the kids school concert a couple of nights ago. I explained to him that I was a dumb arse that couldn't get the transfer box lined up and on without trashing the input seal. he reckoned it couldn't be done. He whips the PTO cover off and the input gear out of the transfer case. It then bolts up easily and he re-assembles it in place ( I reckon the bolts lining it up as described will work perfectly though :) ).

Anyway, that white '88 classic being wrecked on ebay. I got the selectors and diff lock bits from him.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103212&stc=1&d=1450441521

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103213&stc=1&d=1450441521

This is the linkages I got posted over....... Notice the problem ....

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102406&stc=1&d=1448676102

The piccie of my '92 from further up the page ...................... Yep, the bloody gearbox case is different. I'm going to have to fabricate a mount for the new selector mechanism. It's all fun though right :wasntme:

seeya,
Shane L,

[DoubleChevron]

Damn ... just realised what is going on. The gearboxes will be the same, the '88 has an alloy mount I need from the wreck though..... Damn, I should have noticed that before the selectors were posted to me. Just as well I'm never in a hurry with any of this stuff!

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

Yep, the bloody gearbox case is different...
Is not, the shifter off the LT230 bolted straight up to my mate's '94 LSE, there's a pad with 4 bolt holes under both shifter mechs. Your gearbox is identical to the one in the V8 Disco of the era.

Edit, aah, you noticed.:p

[dungarover]

I always tried to sell the linkage complete when I was wrecking Rovers, I remember the hassles I had getting one years ago when I bought a LT230 to replace my BW transfer. You should be able to chase one up (I would give you one if I had one but I don't have any left :mad::mad:).

Trav

[DoubleChevron]

I always tried to sell the linkage complete when I was wrecking Rovers, I remember the hassles I had getting one years ago when I bought a LT230 to replace my BW transfer. You should be able to chase one up (I would give you one if I had one but I don't have any left :mad::mad:).

Trav

Yeah the guy that sold me the LT230 says he has linkages there. I don't want to bother him though as he's going through some problems of his own at the moment. It's no big deal. I'm so slack it's still sitting there with the front end in bits and the transfer box on the ground beside it. If it wasn't so bloody hot I'd already have it back together!

The guy that posted me over the linkages just wasn't aware of what I needed. Hopefully he'll post over the alloy bracket after christmas and the bracket from the top of the diff lock. I have all the linkages, but nothing there to attach the diff lock to the LT230 with (if that makes sense).

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103226&stc=1&d=1450526056

This is what I received with the linkages... .Given even 9:30 at night, it's still over 30degrees in the shed... I thought I'd try to acheive at least something for the weekend. From my perspective this is the most important part of putting the LT230 in. It MUST be "wife presentable". If I make it look ****ty and dodgy I'll never hear the end of it, as obviously everything will obviously be done badly "why don't you take it somewhere and get someone that knows what there doing to work on it like everyone else does" .................. Grrrrr... :wasntme:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103227&stc=1&d=1450526056

One already battered and repaired numerous times center console.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103228&stc=1&d=1450526056

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103229&stc=1&d=1450526056

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103230&stc=1&d=1450526056

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103231&stc=1&d=1450526056

Yeah that's going to look pretty ****house and dodgy as the corners will have huge gaps around them.

[DoubleChevron]

I figured as easier way of doing this would be to just cut the end off ... .it is after all already cracked and buggered.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103232&stc=1&d=1450526447

I just cut the two sides of the bit I didn't need ... to brace it all for gluing.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103233&stc=1&d=1450526447

Yes !!! That should work perfectly... and be nice and strong with the bracing at the back. Have you noticed what I've done yet. Sadly there is no brick wall in the shed for me to slam my head against.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103234&stc=1&d=1450526447

Yes, I mixed up the bloody end peices, I actually chopped up the end bit I needed to use for scrap plastic and was about to glue the :censored: :censored: bit back on I'd just cut off...... Oh well, if you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at :(

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103235&stc=1&d=1450526447

So I've glued all the mess together with super strength aralide, If it looks ok tomorrow I'll glue and brace the cut up mess to the end of the console.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=103236&stc=1&d=1450526447

I reckon the diff lock light can just go here beside the radio (lets see if I can stuff up cutting that hole out too)

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

So I have decided the best way to fix this car ..... Is to get another Range Rover with a broken borg warner transfer case and broken front diff.... That also doesn't drive.

Does having a matching broken pair of Range Rovers and still none that drive help a person in anyway :angel:. Or does it mean your probably insane :wasntme: :wacko: :wacko: My wife is most impressed at the idea :Thump: :Rolling:

seeya,
Shane L.

[dungarover]

So I have decided the best way to fix this car ..... Is to get another Range Rover with a broken borg warner transfer case and broken front diff.... That also doesn't drive.

Does having a matching broken pair of Range Rovers and still none that drive help a person in anyway :angel:. Or does it mean your probably insane :wasntme: :wacko: :wacko: My wife is most impressed at the idea :Thump: :Rolling:

seeya,
Shane L.

Just tell the missus you're thinking of it as a long term investment in saving money on parts you need later on :angel::angel::angel:

Trav

[DoubleChevron]

Just tell the missus you're thinking of it as a long term investment in saving money on parts you need later on :angel::angel::angel:

Trav

Yeah, she doesn't buy the "parts car" caper. For my other cars I have 1/2dozen parts cars .... yet the parts you need are always dead on all of them .....

Say you don't have any front Range Rover diffs do you :Rolling: :wasntme:

I'll have to fix the newie so it drives and see what it's like. I reckon it'll get fixed, it's to nice to wreck.

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

Well I've figured out why some people say you can use the front propshaft and some say you need a disco front propshaft when converting from the borg warner transfer case to the LT230. I think the LT230 propshaft will be 1/2" shorter. You see it would probably fit in if I unloaded the front axle. But the spline would be almost fully bottomed out leaving no propshaft length travel left (if that makes sense). So I'll need to chase up a disco front propshaft :)

seeya,
Shane L.