Front end knocking/rattle

[VK3GJM]

Hi All,


I have an interesting but serious problem.


Over the last 6-8 months I have noticed a significant knocking coming from the front end.
It was reported and LR replaced the Hydra-bushes. Great, upon receiving the vehicle back, all gone, however about a week later the knocking has returned with the same affect/sound.


I had no choice but to take it on our trip north and outback QLD/NSW. On corrugated surfaces it feels like a steering rack or mount issue of some type. Having spent several hours under the vehicle checking bolts/nuts etc, I have not found the root cause.


A perfect example might be travelling slowly over a bluestone road surface, the knock inertia can be felt at the steering wheel and it's not pretty.


Over corrugated roads and if braking is required, the vehicle becomes somewhat unstable as things like stability control and ABS assist, with the addition of this knocking, it becomes an interesting challenge to pull up short towing avoiding a roo.


Has anyone experienced a similar issue that is very hard to describe unless you are at the wheel.


Please note, all this started with LR OEM 19" rims and General Grabber AT's, so certainly not Gordon's rims and the new D697 shoes.


I am visiting LR tomorrow and hope to take the Service Manager on a test drive, but finding a rocky road / lane or dirt road in or near Doncaster will be an interesting exercise.


Some might say, well Bull bar all that extra bling does it, however, my Business partner has the exact same vehicle with front end bling and there is no knocking with OEN 19" and GG AT tyres.


Constructive Feedback is welcome.


Regards


Gerald

[eddomak]

Sorry for my mechanical ignorance, but I don't know what Hydra bushes are.

However I was getting knocking as a result of the bushes in the front control arms, and worn ball joints. I could reproduce this (forward and back inertia changes) by medium to hard pulsing of the brakes, especially on an uphill. This has stopped since replacing the front control arms.

I am still getting some rattling/knocking over bumps (up and down movements), and suspect suspension bushes are next..

[eddy]

Gerald,Presuming the outer tie rod ends have been checked get them to check the inners Steering Rack END ROD Land Rover Discovery | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Steering-Rack-End-Rod-Land-Rover-Discovery-/281776462845?hash=item419b2f9bfd:g:RIMAAOSw9mFWMwC j)

[BobD]

Sounds exactly like lower control arm bushes, which you said were replaced. Usually you replace the whole control arm so it could be something else in that old control arm assembly that was not replaced causing your current issues. Maybe the bushes were not fitted correctly??

[VK3GJM]

Sorry for my mechanical ignorance, but I don't know what Hydra bushes are.

However I was getting knocking as a result of the bushes in the front control arms, and worn ball joints. I could reproduce this (forward and back inertia changes) by medium to hard pulsing of the brakes, especially on an uphill. This has stopped since replacing the front control arms.

I am still getting some rattling/knocking over bumps (up and down movements), and suspect suspension bushes are next..


Valid question.


Fancy name for rubber bushes. Why Hydra, I think the rubber bush has a small concentricity offset, thus rotation of the bush itself also provides alignment.


Regards


Gerald


Land Rover Front Lower Arm Ball Joint Hydra Bush Range Sport 10 13 MR0110 Allm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAND-ROVER-FRONT-LOWER-ARM-BALL-JOINT-HYDRA-BUSH-RANGE-SPORT-10-13-MR0110-ALLM-/181664706776)

[VK3GJM]

Gerald,Presuming the outer tie rod ends have been checked get them to check the inners Steering Rack END ROD Land Rover Discovery | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Steering-Rack-End-Rod-Land-Rover-Discovery-/281776462845?hash=item419b2f9bfd:g:RIMAAOSw9mFWMwC j)



Hi Eddy, Shall do. I would expect this to be looked at by LR. I am and was very specific about the issue and the type of trips I do, they made it very clear to me, Yes Gerald it was a pair of Hydra Bushes only and we replaced both sides.


Hmmm, does make you think, what did they not check?


More to come after a test drive with Service Manager and hopefully subsequent fix. Gosh just clocked 62,000km, the front end cannot be that vulnerable!!


BobD, Yes LR will be pocked and prodded. Not good enough in my view.


Regards


Gerald

[LRD414]

Why Hydra, I think the rubber bush has a small concentricity offset, thus rotation of the bush itself also provides alignment.

Hydrolastic ... good explanation here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/219785-lower-control-arms.html

Does sound like low km's compared to what most people report on here for LCAs.

Cheers,
Scott

[josh.huber]

Hey, disconnect the sway bar link end from the upper control arm on one side only, then drive it, 17mm nut from memory. my sway bar d rubbers had no movement with a bar but after I had done my lca were the extra noise I was chasing

[josh.huber]

Hope fully they have left nothing loose, put a spanner over the lca pins and balljoints,

[Scouse]

Usually you replace the whole control arm so it could be something else in that old control arm assembly that was not replaced causing your current issues. Maybe the bushes were not fitted correctly??If it was a warranty repair, only the worn/loose bushes would be replaced.
Out of warranty, it's often more cost effective to replace the arm assy, depending on the skills of the workshop.

[justinc]

Don't forget about sway bar 'D' bushes....

[VK3GJM]

Hi All,


Drove around with Senior Service Manager for 40 minutes trying to replicate the issue, finally he felt the knocking through the steering wheel.


As it turns out Murphy's law, when you want it to happen, we could not replicate it. Whilst driving back to service centre a slight rise on driveway crossing and a small pot hole in the service centre drive way did the trick.


I informed them, do not call me to pick up the vehicle until you have found the issue and it is fixed, under full warrantee.


Have a new 2015 D4 cursory car , this certainly does not have any knocking. Just like what I would expect my 2012 to behave, no difference in running gear.


Thank you everyone for the feedback, all very valid and they have now stated, we will look much deeper.


More to come on resolution.


Regards


Gerald

[NavyDiver]

Find a sharp speed bump or lay a few bits of 4*2 or even smaller timber on the road or car park next time. The speed bumps like in some business work not the ones on side streets! Doncaster is not good (except if you live here like me):D
The few dirt roads in Templestowe near Pettys Apple orchard should work as well or Warrandyte

[vbrab]

Similar discussion about front end arms and "knocks", seems easy to wear lower ball joints out with lowish K's (60k and above). mechanic reckons stop start places bigger loads and wears them faster.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/228256-front-lower-suspension-arms-d3-d4.html

[VK3GJM]

Thanks for the constant flow of suggestions.

Just a quick update,

Received a call and dealer service assistant stated problem found in stealing link arm / shaft. I asked him, is the failed part the root cause of the knock and it can be felt in the failed device, "yes"

To be replaced after part is received mid next week and complete front end alignment/reset to be done.

Will find out exact root cause upon pickup next week. TBA.

Regards

Gerald

[Nomad9]

HI Gerald.
Had a similar sort of experience and found the inner ball joint on the arm from the rack to the steering ball joint had worn. If you only had the hydra bushes replaced could also be the bottom ball joint, I s'pose.

Interesting to see what they com back with.

[VK3GJM]

Should know more tomorrow or Tuesday at pickup.

[VK3GJM]

Hi All,

Knocking repaired.

Quote, found excessive play in stealing shaft causing a knocking noise over bumps. Replaced steering column lower shaft....

The best way to test this is to find a cobble road, bluestone and you can feel the knocking transferred to the steering column and wheel. Even a small rise on a cross-over will do it.

No affect is evident with steering wheel movement left or right, eg no play, the knocking affect is suspension movement up/down.

Front end now nice and tight....

Regards


Gerald

[Stuart02]

Expensive?

[VK3GJM]

No, under original warranty.