Who is funding IS?

[bob10]

Explained: Who's funding Islamic State? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-11/explained-whos-funding-islamic-state/5736008)

[bob10]

Scary stuff.

There’s a new and deadlier Islamic State coming | The New Daily (http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2015/11/22/deadlier-islamic-state/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20151123%20The%20New%20Daily%20(1)&utm_content=&spMailingID=24055342&spUserID=MTIxODgyNjMyMTEwS0&spJobID=682203353&spReportId=NjgyMjAzMzUzS0)

[DAMINK]

Did not watch the videos.
But im willing to have a guess.
America is funding Isis. Thats my guess.
Much like they did during the Iran v Iraq war.

How about this for a question.
Who is supplying them all the toyotas they are driving around in.

[bob10]

Did not watch the videos.
But im willing to have a guess.
America is funding Isis. Thats my guess.
Much like they did during the Iran v Iraq war.

How about this for a question.
Who is supplying them all the toyotas they are driving around in.

ISIS did not exist during the Iran/Iraq war. Most vehicles are courtesy of the Iraq Army, seized when ISIS attacked Iraq. Along with tanks, artillery, and about 400 humvees. It would be to your advantage to watch the videos, then you can make an informed comment.

[DAMINK]

ISIS did not exist during the Iran/Iraq war. Most vehicles are courtesy of the Iraq Army, seized when ISIS attacked Iraq. Along with tanks, artillery, and about 400 humvees. It would be to your advantage to watch the videos, then you can make an informed comment.

I never said ISIS existed when the iran/iraq war was going. SHEEZ.
Surprised you got that out of my comment.
I simply sited that particular war as an example of where the US funded and armed both sides of the war. Is that clearer?

My comment is informed.
It was you who either cant understand my sentence structure or did not read correctly.

Heads up. Just because something is on a major news channel does not make it fact! Just sayin.....

[DAMINK]

You got me biting....

Ok here is a little info for you.
The most stolen car in Australia is the Toyota Hilux.
Of those 4 out of every 10 vanish. Guess where they go?
Cut up put in containers and shipped over to the Middle East.
Thus why you have so many ISIS driving around in nice shiny Toyotas.

Iraq armies vehicles? Didnt the US and AUS train there said military?
What did they train them in? Handing over the keys?

My 2 cents worth on that subject.

[Pickles2]

Did not watch the videos.
But im willing to have a guess.
America is funding Isis. Thats my guess.
Much like they did during the Iran v Iraq war.

How about this for a question.
Who is supplying them all the toyotas they are driving around in.
"America funding Isis"..Lol.....What absolute nonsense......IMHO of course.
However, as I am a mere mortal, who has a very limited knowledge of such things, perhaps you can explain to me, in simple layman's terms, the basis of your amazing statement, and how this is actually happening. I am always prepared to learn.
In closing, I would say that I found Bob's video very enlightening.
Pickles.

[Ferret]

Who is supplying them all the toyotas they are driving around in.

Not sure anyone is supplying them specifically but they probably use Toyota because they meet the caliphates emissions standards. :)

[DAMINK]

"America funding Isis"..Lol.....What absolute nonsense......IMHO of course.
However, as I am a mere mortal, who has a very limited knowledge of such things, perhaps you can explain to me, in simple layman's terms, the basis of your amazing statement, and how this is actually happening. I am always prepared to learn.
In closing, I would say that I found Bob's video very enlightening.
Pickles.

I am glad your amused there Pickles.
This is why i used the iran/iraq war as an example.
Back then people much like yourself were convinced the US was not funding both sides then however history shows us they infact did.
Much like now and the "war" on ISIS.

You see ISIS is just a word. Convenient word too.
The US was funding the rebels to fight asad. This much is clear.
These are the same people who are now ISIS.
See how convenient the word is. Not rebels but ISIS. So they can fund rebels but not ISIS.
If im not mistaken those same fighters were given 500 mill by the obama admin to fight asad.
Yes those same people we now call ISIS.
Here is a quote you may or may not like.
"An ISIS leader named Yousef al-Salafi in Pakistan has admitted that ISIS is being funded by the USA, and thus, the Obama administration"

[DAMINK]

Not sure anyone is supplying them specifically but they probably use Toyota because they meet the caliphates emissions standards. :)

I cant say i have seen any toyota dealerships in the propaganda videos they put on the net. AND I WATCH EM. Normally its just busted up buildings and not much more. Most all civilians have long gone. I expect the same from the local dealer.

[Pickles2]

Damink,...thanks for your reply.
I agree that "rebels" & "isis" can be, & is, a "confusing" statement when it come to what is happening in Syria.
Who is who, who is a rebel, who is Isis, who is for Assad, what is Russia & the U.S. doing etc etc, is to me enormously confusing.
I have also heard before how the U.S. originally armed Iraq, Iran etc etc,...I've heard all that before, and much of it is undoubtedly true.
However, that is MASSIVELY different to what you're now saying, "The U.S. is funding Isis". I simply don't believe it.
So, like I said, if you can explain to me, that would be good.
Pickles.

[DAMINK]

What do you want me to explain?

Why they do it?
How they do it?
When did they start doing it?

To simply ask to explain is not enough info.

You said they DONT and its absolute nonsense.
Yet i gave you one quote to suggest otherwise. What exactly makes it absolute nonsense? Because you dont believe or do you have facts to support that?

Did you bother to investigate that quote at all?


As to who is who. That is simple.
They are whoever they want to be in order to get what they want.
Like recently one was a refugee only to later be a terrorist.
What about the isis fighters they have captured that are dressed as woman?
What about the isis fighters who dont wear war gear and normal clobber. The moment they claim to be rebels and not isis they are.
See its all just words. ISIS and rebels. Means the same thing over in syria depending on who they are talking too and what they want as an outcome.
ISIS is not a state yet every chance they get they call it a state.
I personally think in a deliberate attempt to confuse the public. Reality is the rebels are isis. Most of them anyway. At one point or another.

[Pickles2]

Your first three points will do me just fine......"How, Why, & when"?
A simple description & explanation, to the point, in laymans terms of these, would be good.
Pickles.

[DAMINK]

Your first three points will do me just fine......"How, Why, & when"?
A simple description & explanation, to the point, in laymans terms of these, would be good.
Pickles.

In laymans terms.

How? I gave you a 500 mill example. Thats layman enough. Although you seem to have neglected to see that.
Why? I suspect to instill fear in the public for some other agenda. Some speculate its to allow for tighter controls on the public. I dunno about that. Beyond that i can only speculate as this is still unfolding. In time the reasoning will be clear i suspect as all of the yanks nasty ways end up public.
Its not to kill all infidels i can tell ya that. Wonder why so few missions are carried out daily? I sure as hell do. I guess you could send obama an email and ask him?
When. NOW. But i suspect from the time of the iraq invasion.

Layman enough?

[Pickles2]

"A 500 mill example"?.....Please explain,
To date you've explained absolutely nothing to justify your claim that "The U.S. is funding Isis". Perhaps that is because,.......they aren't.
Like Bob said, look at his video,.... the contents of which make absolute sense to me.
Pickles.

[DAMINK]

"A 500 mill example"?.....Please explain,
To date you've explained absolutely nothing to justify your claim that "The U.S. is funding Isis". Perhaps that is because,.......they aren't.
Like Bob said, look at his video,.... the contents of which make absolute sense to me.
Pickles.

Then you go ahead and believe Bobs post.
Search the net for the 500 mill obama spent. Dont rely on me. You will just say im wrong.
Not sure why you asked me when your views are one eyed.
Before you do though.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=america+funding+isis&oq=america+funding+isis
Go there and read some info there. Not my websites. Just stuff on the interwebs.
Might find some of that interesting.
Before i leave this to others i will leave you with this.

"General Wesley Kanne Clark, Sr., former Supreme Allied commander of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) during the war against Yugoslavia and presidential candidate, revealed recently on CNN that the Islamic State (ISIS) was ?funded by our friends and allies in order to fight Hezbollah."

Dont believe me. How about listen to others. He is but ONE of many.
He only suggests its funded by friends and allies but its actually deeper than that.
Would it be safe to say his statement contradicts the video you rely on for your knowledge?

[Pickles2]

Damink, I asked you to explain to me, & you have been unable to do so.
How things originally "got started" in many instances is invariably a lot different to the way things end up/are now,.....Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, have all changed of recent times, as have the combatants.
No matter what the roots of Isis or any other "group" are, and yes, there are plenty of reasons why these groups form, sometimes with the backing of the U.S.,....but also Russia, China, Iran etc etc,.....these groups form & they evolve into something totally different to when they were concieved.
Isis is frighteningly, relatively new, Actually I don't know who was responsible for its formation, but it sure as hell wasn't the U.S....and nor are they funding it.
Damunk, I find it strange that no other members find this interesting enough to contribute?......but at least this discussion has proven that if members who totally disagree can disagree with respect, a reasonable discussion is still possible,.......without it being banished to C.A.!
Regards, Pickles.

[bob10]

I'm confused. Did I get this out of context? Apologise if I have.

"America is funding Isis. Thats my guess.
Much like they did during the Iran v Iraq war"

[bob10]

This may clear some of the confusion up.

https://www.quora.com/How-did-ISIS-form-When-and-where-did-ISIS-begin

[bob10]

And this may frighten you.

What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?fb_ref=Default)

[joel0407]

I've been doing my own little bit of reseach on this lately. It's difficult to tell the truth amunst the conspirasy garbage sometimes. It's hard to even work out what they are fighting for.

So as far as I can tell, they control, operate or what ever in part of the almost most useless bit of dirt in the world. The place only has one thing going for it, OIL.

No country will directly admit to buying oil from them as that would be funding terror but if they slip that oil through the back door to a neighbouring country that sells good oil and then then another country buys the oil from a ligitimate counrty then that's OK.

I don't actually think there are that many people left in Syria. The place has been bombed left right and centre. There are no factories manufacturing and exporting, there ar no farms, I don't know what they have to eat and what other country would export into Syria?

All they have is oil that no one will buy directly from them.

As for the war. It's hard for me to understand too. They are fighting for some prophecy. They don't claim to be fighting for money or land or material things. Some of the higher up members obviously understand they need money and material things to carry out the prophecy but that's not what they are fighting for.

I know very little about other wars that have been fought around the world but most are about fighting for control of land, to rule the world and stuff but this is different.

I do believe not all terrist attacks are directly their doing either. Some crazy does a terroist attack somewhere and they claim it to be their doing. Well they aren't all directly their doing. If it was their intent to do terrorist attacks everwhere, I doubt it would be that hard. People can move about the world reasoanbly easy and until they get picked up once, no one really knows they are involved. I think a person might be inspired by things others have done and how their acts have been claimed to be ISIS and they do their own thing of their own bat then ISIS say "Yeh, we did it". Well no they didn't give that person instructions to do it they just inspired them and that's not directly their doing.

Paris seems pretty organised. There were several terrorist with weapons who all attacked at once but in Australia, a lone bloke goes into a cafe with a gun, a lone bloke shoots a police IT guy. It didn't seem very well planned or thought out.

Happy Days

[bob10]

I've been doing my own little bit of reseach on this lately. It's difficult to tell the truth amunst the conspirasy garbage sometimes. It's hard to even work out what they are fighting for.



Happy Days

The two links I posted are the best I have found, as to what ISIS wants, & where they came from. This video of the Author of " the Atlantic " article is enlightening. I think it is important we have an idea of who they are, & what their philosophy is. And we should do this without too much emotion. We should also understand that the majority of Muslims do not agree with their philosophy. I am impressed with members approach to this post, good work, guys.
the first link didn't work. Scroll down to the video.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?fb_ref=Default

[vnx205]

... ...
......
Paris seems pretty organised. There were several terrorist with weapons who all attacked at once but in Australia, a lone bloke goes into a cafe with a gun, a lone bloke shoots a police IT guy. It didn't seem very well planned or thought out.

Happy Days

Last night's 4 Corners suggested that things might be a bit more organised in Australia than most of us probably believed.

[DAMINK]

9/11 orchestrated by the US. (begin operation TERRORIST)

Iraq was invaded based on a lie. (Get US friendly people there so a future gas pipeline is possible)

Saddam the elected man was kicked out as was his party.(yes democratically elected although i do believe he did kill people who were opposed to him.)

ISIS was formed.

Had the US and its allies not gone to Iraq to boot an elected man out of office based on a lie there would be no ISIS.

@Pickles. You did not reply to what i posted earlier.
The quote from that former Supreme Allied Commander.
Is he a liar? Is he unreliable?
Dont take my word for it but please Pickles do comment on that.
Here i will post it again for you incase you forgot.

"General Wesley Kanne Clark, Sr., former Supreme Allied commander of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) during the war against Yugoslavia and presidential candidate, revealed recently on CNN that the Islamic State (ISIS) was ?funded by our friends and allies in order to fight Hezbollah."

So you said i had to give you some proof of the US funding ISIS.
Is General Wesley Clarks comments enough to change your mind?
The first video posted here is done by who? A credible person with credentials like Clark or is it just a presenter?

I know who i believe.

[bob10]

And so it begins. What a pity.

[DAMINK]

And so it begins. What a pity.

You posted the damn thread. Im just giving my point of view.
What did you expect?
"And so it begins"
Its a bulletin board. You post controversial threads and are shocked when people have opinions contrary to you?

This forum is getting harder and harder to stomach.

[bob10]

You posted the damn thread. Im just giving my point of view.
What did you expect?
"And so it begins"
Its a bulletin board. You post controversial threads and are shocked when people have opinions contrary to you?

This forum is getting harder and harder to stomach.

Perhaps you could give your point of view some where else, then?

[DAMINK]

Perhaps you could give your point of view some where else, then?

Yep i agree. This forum is not the place for me.
I bid you farewell.

[Pickles2]

9/11 orchestrated by the US. (begin operation TERRORIST)

Iraq was invaded based on a lie. (Get US friendly people there so a future gas pipeline is possible)

Saddam the elected man was kicked out as was his party.(yes democratically elected although i do believe he did kill people who were opposed to him.)

ISIS was formed.

Had the US and its allies not gone to Iraq to boot an elected man out of office based on a lie there would be no ISIS.

@Pickles. You did not reply to what i posted earlier.
The quote from that former Supreme Allied Commander.
Is he a liar? Is he unreliable?
Dont take my word for it but please Pickles do comment on that.
Here i will post it again for you incase you forgot.

"General Wesley Kanne Clark, Sr., former Supreme Allied commander of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) during the war against Yugoslavia and presidential candidate, revealed recently on CNN that the Islamic State (ISIS) was ?funded by our friends and allies in order to fight Hezbollah."

So you said i had to give you some proof of the US funding ISIS.
Is General Wesley Clarks comments enough to change your mind?
The first video posted here is done by who? A credible person with credentials like Clark or is it just a presenter?

I know who i believe.
Yes, I agree, if the U.S. had not gone into Iraq, there would be no Isis,....but there very well may have been something else,...there always is in this part of the World, is there not.
Your point about Clark's funding comments are probably true too, BUT, and you need to read what I say too,...things change, ideals of groups change, others "infiltrate" groups, they become the majority, and WHAMO, this "Group" evolves into something totally different to what it was concieved as,...TOTALLY. And, there is NO WAY that the U.S. is in any way currently funding what is currently known as ISIS. You have produced absolutely no evidence to the contrary, and there was also no mention at all of any U.S. funding etc in Bob's clip, simply because it's not happening.
Pickles.

[steane]

Perhaps you could give your point of view some where else, then?

Why? We have to endure yours on a daily basis. Isn't it only fair that others get to share an opinion?

[incisor]

it might be timely to remind people of the inbuilt ignore facility..

if you don't want to see posts from particular people you can use this facility to remove them from your sight

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/profile.php'do=ignorelist

you can not block admins and moderators tho :p

[Gerokent]

One question that has been on my mind regarding these events is;
the catholic church has the pope, church of englnd has the monarch, and so forth; does the muslim world(faith) have a top dog? Radid or not.

[Gerokent]

As DAMINK pointed out
Ricky Muir seeks investigation into claim four-wheel drives exported to terrorists - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-24/ricky-muir-says-vehicles-exported-to-terrorists/6968346)

[joel0407]

I have read the link over a couple of nights and found it pretty interesting.

I have been bought up a Christian. While I believe in Christianity, I don't follow any denomination. I have spent enough time with many of them to know they all have their own determinations of things in the bible that I don't determine the same way myself.

As an example of a determination. I am by no means an expert of the Catholic denomination but one thing I beleive to right about their religion is part of the bible says "build your house on a rock, not sand". Now from the very little of the bible I have read I know a lot of it was just simple rules for the survival of people in a simper time. Things like if leather become moldy, you should wash it, if it returns you wash it and take it to a preist who will bless it, if it comes back a third time you burn it. That is a simple rule of life for a simpler time. Just as "building your home on solid ground". As far as I understand the Catholic religion is built on the first pope. Catholics decifered the part of build your house on a rock not sand as build your religion on a a rock and in some translation Peter means rock so they built their religion on Peter, the first pope. Now I dont agree with that part, I think it simply means build your house on solid ground so I don't claim to be catholic and that's about all I know about that denomination.

After reading the link it amused me a little that part of muslims following the Islam and the Koran and stuff means there will be some great battle or war or somthing between them and Rome. Apparently Rome means the Catholics and the pope but their problem is the pope no longer has an army. But rather than realising the Koran is like the Bible a way to live and rules to live by hundreds of years ago in a simpler time, they choose to decipher it in differant ways and tell their followers "Oh, the americans are mainly christian so the Koran means America is rome".

It sort of confirmed my thoughts that these acts of terror that have happen across the western world are not acting from any direct instruction from ISIS or these organisations but more just lone wolves going it on their own and doing the things they have done are not really following what the prophecy says anyway. That sort of gives me a little, not a lot but a little comfort about the refugees we and other countries are receiving.

What I dont understand is why we and other countries are stopping people and citizens of our country and other countries going to join ISIS. I mean if they are that strong of a believer and they want to go and live that way well why not let them and then not let them return. I understand we dont want to strengthen their numbers but I'd rather know where my enemy is. But even this contradicts what I have said a little. I mean if they feel the need to go there to fight for this prophecy and live that way of life then they should know enought about it to know acts of terror here is apparently not part of the prophecy.

I don't think me or anyone else should tell another group of people how to live or what is right or wrong. I don't argee with how some other people live but I don't think any part of this world is developed enough for one part, group or area to tell the other what they are doing is wrong. For example I don't think people should be beheaded but I suspect they beleive we do things that are just as wrong. I often use they way aboriginals lived here in Australia and the problem it's caused by westerners forcing their way of living upon them. I mean they didn't live very long lives but why is that wrong. For me I think the average life expectance is about 80 years. If I get close to that, I'll be happy. Aboriginals lived to 50 or something but if that all people lived for and you made it to 50, you'd be happy. So they didn't have modern medicine and big building and gun powder and all that stuff but neither did they have all the stress we deal with in our every day these days. The problem comes when a group of people try to tell another group of people that the way they are living is wrong and they should live their way.

On a side note I don't want to take this thread off topic to why I believe in religion but I will say breifly, I think there are equally as many holes in both evolution and religion. I can't explain there being a supreme human being but maybe religion fits somewhere between the apes and us. Maybe they are both right.

[bob10]

I have read the link over a couple of nights and found it pretty interesting.

.

Thank you, Joel. That is a thoughtful and considered reply. As stated earlier, the two links I posted were the most informative I found. Not hateful, or conspiracy theories, just informative. At least you had the good grace to read them before making a reply. You respected the thread, and respect earns respect. Cheers.

[Chops]

I agree Joel with most of what you say.
I especially like what you've said about "forcing religions" on people.
Rightly or wrongly, this country is based on Christianity, thus I believe that's where it should stay.

[joel0407]

I agree Joel with most of what you say.
I especially like what you've said about "forcing religions" on people.
Rightly or wrongly, this country is based on Christianity, thus I believe that's where it should stay.

I'm not sure its so much about our majority religion but our laws. Maybe by the time the next generation takes over we could be majority Muslim and beheadings become accepted. Who knows. I know I don't want it but I think we have to remember that as recent as 60 - 70 years ago we would heard up aboriginals and shoot them. You could get a licence to cull a few if you needed. Here we are today trying to support the more human side of a war because we want them to win for humanity. Maybe they aren't wrong, just a little behind us.

[bob10]

I'm not sure its so much about our majority religion but our laws. Maybe by the time the next generation takes over we could be majority Muslim and beheadings become accepted. Who knows. I know I don't want it but I think we have to remember that as recent as 60 - 70 years ago we would heard up aboriginals and shoot them. You could get a licence to cull a few if you needed. Hear we are today trying to support the more human side of a war because we want them to win for humanity. Maybe they aren't wrong, just a little behind us.

We should leave it at that, I think.

[Pickles2]

I'm not sure its so much about our majority religion but our laws. Maybe by the time the next generation takes over we could be majority Muslim and beheadings become accepted. Who knows. I know I don't want it but I think we have to remember that as recent as 60 - 70 years ago we would heard up aboriginals and shoot them. You could get a licence to cull a few if you needed. Here we are today trying to support the more human side of a war because we want them to win for humanity. Maybe they aren't wrong, just a little behind us.
There is no generation on earth that has not made mistakes, in which regard what you have said, is simply a massive exageration, & light years away from, ANYTHING relative to Isis.
Pickles.