Russian bomber shot down by- Turkey

[bob10]

Breaking news. The two pilots ejected.

[bob10]

More news

Russian warplane shot down near Turkey-Syria border - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/)

[LandyAndy]

Russians taken out on a turkey shoot:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

[bob10]

Russians taken out on a turkey shoot:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

Wish I had thought of that

[TerryO]

However it's a pretty crazy thing to do given the Russian aircraft was only over Turkish soil for roughly 10 seconds. Why would the Turks want to antagonise Putin who usually reacts badly when provoked?

[DiscoMick]

Because Putin is supporting Assad who is an enemy of Erdrogan.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[roverv8]

However it's a pretty crazy thing to do given the Russian aircraft was only over Turkish soil for roughly 10 seconds. Why would the Turks want to antagonise Putin who usually reacts badly when provoked?

Exactly, hold on to your seats.

Also the Russian rescue helicopter, looking for the pilots has now been shot down by Syrian rebels....

[SBD4]

Apparently the Turks gave the Russians 10 warnings before following through on their threat.

The map seems to show repeated crossings of the boarder:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/144.jpg

I think Putin's reaction to the downing is the most concerning aspect of this.

Turkey shoots down Russian fighter jet, Putin warns of (http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/military-plane-shot-down-crashes-near-syrianturkish-border/news-story/02905f7e0d3270c4410d5de31722b785)

[ramblingboy42]

...there's a bad smell to this......

...dipping a toe in the water.....sacrifices can be made?

[NavyDiver]

However it's a pretty crazy thing to do given the Russian aircraft was only over Turkish soil for roughly 10 seconds. Why would the Turks want to antagonise Putin who usually reacts badly when provoked?
Because the Russians bomb everyone opposed to Assad. Turkey and others support rebels not Isil cowards. Isil is happy for Russia to bomb rebels whom they are also fighting Terry.

It is a mess- Kevin Andrews and former PM wanting us to put ground troops into that mess is :censored:

One piliot dead (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates)

and marine from rescue helicopter dead

[Eevo]

However it's a pretty crazy thing to do given the Russian aircraft was only over Turkish soil for roughly 10 seconds. Why would the Turks want to antagonise Putin who usually reacts badly when provoked?

how long is ok?
10seconds?
10min?
10hours?

[Ausfree]

The whole situation is just a mess. Wouldn't take much for the whole thing to blow up into a major war!!:(

[roverv8]

how long is ok?
10seconds?
10min?
10hours?


?Despite these warnings, both planes ... violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds.?
Read more at Tensions soar as Russia vows (http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/11/24/18/56/warplane-crashes-in-syria-near-turkey#zcE1F1Pog9s1qWo7.99)

[DiscoMick]

Ten warnings for two aircraft flying together sounds pretty restrained to me. This wasn't an isolated incident either, the Russians have repeatedly violated Turkish airspace, so many times that the Russians and Turks had a meeting and supposedly agreed on ways to stop it happening, but the Russians kept doing it anyway.
Suppose these Russian aircraft were violating Australian airspace - would we just go, "Oh it's OK, no worries mate, keep it up" - seriously? We'd go nuts I reckon. So we should.
It appears to me the Turks were totally justified and quite restrained and the Russians got what they deserved.

[Chucaro]

Apparently the Turks gave the Russians 10 warnings before following through on their threat.

The map seems to show repeated crossings of the boarder:


I think Putin's reaction to the downing is the most concerning aspect of this.

[

How they can give them 10 warnings when the Turks said that the Russian plane was less than 20 seconds in Turks air? :confused:

[Mick_Marsh]

Suppose these Russian aircraft were violating Australian airspace - would we just go, "Oh it's OK, no worries mate, keep it up" - seriously? We'd go nuts I reckon. So we should.
I reckon we'd say "Right, mate. Don't do it again." Really I reckon it won't worry us much.
Having said that, I support Turkey's decision to defend their airspace in whatever way they see fit. I also can't help thinking it was an over reaction. I am also wondering what Russia's over reaction will be.
As others have said, can't be good.
Mind you, when the Russians are on a mission, they don't mess about.
ISIS 'left on brink of defeat' by Russian bomb attacks with only 34 bases left - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-left-brink-defeat-russian-6888434)

[Mick_Marsh]

How they can give them 10 warnings when the Turks said that the Russian plane was less than 20 seconds in Turks air? :confused:
I read 5 minutes with repeated crossings.

[DiscoMick]

How they can give them 10 warnings when the Turks said that the Russian plane was less than 20 seconds in Turks air? :confused:

The Russians repeatedly crossed the border and were repeatedly warned.
The Turks are a serious nation with a hardline military government and not afraid to stand up to Putin.
The Russians shouldn't be bombing the Kurds near the border with Turkey, they should be after IS who who are further inland at Raqqa and Mosul.
If Russia attacks Turkey the EU, who already feel under threat from the Russians in the Ukraine, will stand with Turkey. The French want war with IS and the Germans and Brits will be with them. That would pull in the USA and we would have to go with them. Putin would be smart to pull his people back from the border and focus on IS.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[Chucaro]

I do not dispute that a country have the right to defend their airspace but I think that the Turks have to show restrain and not over react specially when Turkish fighter jets violated Greek airspace m,any tomes including 20 times on one day alone in July 2015.
In some of the Turkish news about this matter read: "The incidents are so routine that Turkey now lists all incidents under the ?Daily Activities? section of the chief of general staff website"
For people to have an idea this are the amount of Greekl air space violations by the Turkish since 2008

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Mick_Marsh]

I do not dispute that a country have the right to defend their airspace but I think that the Turks have to show restrain and not over react specially when Turkish fighter jets violated Greek airspace m,any tomes including 20 times on one day alone in July 2015.
In some of the Turkish news about this matter read: "The incidents are so routine that Turkey now lists all incidents under the ?Daily Activities? section of the chief of general staff website"
For people to have an idea this are the amount of Greekl air space violations by the Turkish since 2008

http://i2.wp.com/wakeupfromyourslumber.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/12294746_10205150348981364_5062506778223182633_n.j pg
Greece and Turkey are both in NATO. Russia isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
That may have some bearing on it.

[bob10]

I don't care who did what. I don't care who was wrong. Once again, the term military intelligence , is an oxymoron. check this incident out, which resulted in 50,000 American casualties, & millions of others.

9-11 Review: The Gulf of Tonkin Incident (http://911review.com/precedent/century/tonkin.html)

[VladTepes]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/122.jpg

[Pickles2]

The Russians repeatedly crossed the border and were repeatedly warned.
The Turks are a serious nation with a hardline military government and not afraid to stand up to Putin.
The Russians shouldn't be bombing the Kurds near the border with Turkey, they should be after IS who who are further inland at Raqqa and Mosul.
If Russia attacks Turkey the EU, who already feel under threat from the Russians in the Ukraine, will stand with Turkey. The French want war with IS and the Germans and Brits will be with them. That would pull in the USA and we would have to go with them. Putin would be smart to pull his people back from the border and focus on IS.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app
Excellent post Disco, with some good info there.
The situation "over there" is very confusing, to me anyway, and whilst I wouldn't trust Putin as far as I could throw him, I really do feel that Turkey's action was a bit over the top. I reckon Turkey, with modern "electronics" could've shown Russia exactly where that plane went, and said, "if this happens again", we'll shoot it down.
It appears that Putin is doing better than others in the Syrian "situation",..He appears to be actually doing something, but then there are those who say, He's targetting the wrong people.
Putin has repeatedly been heavy handed, so I suppose it could be said that he's copped a bit of his own medicine....but I still don't like it.
But the Americans do seem to like Putin, I saw an internet article the other day, (maybe someone can locate it) that said that in the U.S., Putin was more popular than Obama??!!! (based on his direct & visible action in Syria)
Pickles

[DiscoMick]

Excellent post Disco, with some good info there.
The situation "over there" is very confusing, to me anyway, and whilst I wouldn't trust Putin as far as I could throw him, I really do feel that Turkey's action was a bit over the top. I reckon Turkey, with modern "electronics" could've shown Russia exactly where that plane went, and said, "if this happens again", we'll shoot it down.
It appears that Putin is doing better than others in the Syrian "situation",..He appears to be actually doing something, but then there are those who say, He's targetting the wrong people.
Putin has repeatedly been heavy handed, so I suppose it could be said that he's copped a bit of his own medicine....but I still don't like it.
But the Americans do seem to like Putin, I saw an internet article the other day, (maybe someone can locate it) that said that in the U.S., Putin was more popular than Obama??!!! (based on his direct & visible action in Syria)
Pickles
As I understand it, the Turks 20 times told the Russians that their planes had violated Turkish airspace and warned them not to do it again. The Russian pilots kept doing it.
Sceptical people might think the Russian pilots were ordered to keep doing it to provoke an incident with Turkey. After all, that's similar to what Putin had his people do in the Ukraine, where the Russians provoked the Ukranians and then blamed them for reacting.
Why is Putin having the Russians attack the Kurds and other rebels, rather than focus on IS? Because Putin wants to destroy any opponent of Assad, not just IS, so Russia can have a base in the Middle East and counter-act the influence of the West in Iraq.

[Pickles2]

Disco,...All Ok with that mate, except,....."influence of the West in Iraq"?...Mate,...there is none, (I wish there was)...Putin must be laughing his tits off about Iraq?
Pickles

[jerryd]

We normally have lamb

[steane]

Maybe Russia isn't taking anything Turkey says too seriously?

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president)

It's interesting that ISIS oil (fields or tanker trucks), the main source of income for ISIS wasn't being targeted by the US until the attacks in Paris and really until the Russians started hitting ISIS oil supplies. The Russians don't seem to have any issues cutting ISIS oil supplies off. It makes sense that the best way to stop ISIS is to starve it of income. Easy targets as well. Should be near the top of any offensive strategy list, you'd think?

What has the US been doing for the last year?

Perhaps the Russians are the straightest shooters in the ME at the moment?

[DiscoMick]

Maybe Russia isn't taking anything Turkey says too seriously?

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president)

It's interesting that ISIS oil (fields or tanker trucks), the main source of income for ISIS wasn't being targeted by the US until the attacks in Paris and really until the Russians started hitting ISIS oil supplies. The Russians don't seem to have any issues cutting ISIS oil supplies off. It makes sense that the best way to stop ISIS is to starve it of income. Easy targets as well. Should be near the top of any offensive strategy list, you'd think?

What has the US been doing for the last year?

Perhaps the Russians are the straightest shooters in the ME at the moment?
Yes, it's a similar situation in North Korea, which gets its oil from China across a certain bridge on the border and sells stuff to China to earn hard currency. The Chinese keep North Korea on a drip feed, as a buffer to the US in South Korea, but the Chinese could cut off the North Korean regime's supplies at any time if they chose.

[mox]

Thanks to the Internet anyone can now readily access news services other than the Western mainstream media. What may be most interesting is stuff it would not publish. Regarding this particular topic, the more people with interest in it who read this detailed article of the rescue of the Russian pilot the terrorists did not kill, the better. It seems because the Turks hoped to hold him alive to blackmail the Russians. On www.english.farsnews.com (http://www.english.farsnews.com) (English version of farsnews.ir) semi official Iranian news agency. Entitled "Russian Pilot Rescued by Iran's General Soleimani," Posted 26/11/15.

[roverv8]

I think we don't know the half of it....

Was Russia just taking wide berth u turns, or were they looking for something, they seem to keep doing it after being warned??
What are the Turks worried about them seeing, (military build up) or is it "just a matter of principal"
I'm almost positive the Turks wouldn't have shot down a Russian jet fighter without knowing they have backup, were they told to do it???
Who knows, There seems to be alot of noise from the West to find a "diplomatic" solution, I think they don't want to be seen as the aggressors...
But they want Assad & I.S gone

[BMKal]

A new take on "Shirtfronting" Mr Putin ?????

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/91.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Geedublya]

I've got an idea that the Russians were attacking the Turkmen rebels in Syria and that's why Turkey attacked the Russian aircraft. Having them cross the Turkish border was convenient.

http://news.sky.com/story/1593610/who-are-the-turkmen-fighters-in-syria

[DiscoMick]

I've got an idea that the Russians were attacking the Turkmen rebels in Syria and that's why Turkey attacked the Russian aircraft. Having them cross the Turkish border was convenient.

Who Are The Turkmen Fighters In Syria? (http://news.sky.com/story/1593610/who-are-the-turkmen-fighters-in-syria)
Yes, it appears the Turks and the CIA are backing the Turkmen to take control of that area of Syria, but it contains a Russian base, so the Russians won't accept that. Interesting analysis here:
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/why-turkey-shot-down-a-russian-plane-the-proxy-war-in-syria,8425

[Greatsouthernland]

I don't know, but this Californian based newsgroup 'tells the facts and names the names'

Rupert Murdoch and the Israeli Genie (http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/27/rupert-murdoch-and-the-israeli-genie/)

And the patriot air defence system is crap compared to this Russian setup...

https://youtu.be/hLYYNd8q9Vk

[p38arover]

Belgian Physicists Calculate that Everyone Is Lying About the Downed Russian Jet | Motherboard (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/belgian-physicists-calculate-that-everyone-is-lying-about-the-downed-russian-jet)

[Ausfree]

Something that I have wondered about. The Russian jet was in Turkish air space for approx. 17 seconds and the Turks warned it TEN TIMES. Jeez, kinda hard to believe!! More to this than meets the eye!!!

[Greatsouthernland]

Something that I have wondered about. The Russian jet was in Turkish air space for approx. 17 seconds and the Turks warned it TEN TIMES. Jeez, kinda hard to believe!! More to this than meets the eye!!!

Ahh yes, truth is the first victim of war it seems ;)

[Ausfree]

Ahh yes, truth is the first victim of war it seems ;)

Yep, something that Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels was expert at!!!

ps. A couple of quotes from Mr Goebbels.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/281832.Joseph_Goebbels

[DiscoMick]

Something that I have wondered about. The Russian jet was in Turkish air space for approx. 17 seconds and the Turks warned it TEN TIMES. Jeez, kinda hard to believe!! More to this than meets the eye!!!
Repeated incursions, repeated warnings.
I'm sure both sides are gilding the lilly a bit, but it's hard to believe Putin after he so blatantly lied about Russian activity in the Ukraine.

[Chucaro]

I do not believe any of them but it is interesting that some of the press do not publish this about the Turks and isis.

?ISIS managed to sell oil to Turkey on black market at less than 50% of global prices? ? Iraqi MP

[Greatsouthernland]

Well this actually put it into perspective...for me :angel:

I wonder when channel merdock will ever let this revelation be aired :confused: (or written).

https://youtu.be/OQuceU3x2Ww

[Ausfree]

Interesting, Putin certainly points the fickle finger of fate in a certain direction. As for medocks press, who believes anything written in it anyway!!!!

[V8Ian]

Putin makes some valid points but don't forget he's also a political animal, with the same imperialistic desires as the USA.

[Ausfree]

Putin makes some valid points but don't forget he's also a political animal, with the same imperialistic desires as the USA.

I believe he was a former colonel in the KGB. So, particularly after the Ukraine I would treat him the same as any other politician.

[Greatsouthernland]

Putin makes some valid points but don't forget he's also a political animal, with the same imperialistic desires as the USA.

Agree wholeheartedly, none of them are teflon coated :D

He made some good points and now it seems clearer why the US would want to contain China. Russia and China are actually collaborating against ISIS in the region where the US has previously dominated oil supply, with new fields in Syria on the production agenda (near a Russian base).

Why would the US oppose two other permanent UN members helping defeat 'terrorism' if they were as serious as the 'reactionary' media releases tell us? Perhaps defeating ISIS isn't the prime US agenda as advertised via western media...war is a business and it looks like it's getting a boost from two more UN permanent members. You'd think that would be cause for celebration, east & west working together, but apparently not...:(