2.2 puma performance upgrades

[TristanMPolly]

Just looking to see what people have done to extract a bit more power out of the 2.2 puma, was thinking 3 inch exhaust system with hi flow cat unless that's not possible, and can you do diesel chip on the 2.2 or ecm flash the best option?

[Babs]

Check out the BAS remap tool, looks like there will be a group buy soon.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Aguy]

As Babs said, BAS BAS Performance Remaps. Landrover tuning at its best! (http://bellautoservices.co.uk/)
or ALIVE Alive Tuning | Alive Tuning UK (http://www.alivetuning.com/)
are the 2 most popular choices around.

[karlz]

Check out the BAS remap tool, looks like there will be a group buy soon.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

I want group buy

[1nando]

Fit a intercooler, decat the exhaust and get a remap......then leave the standard exhaust and just leave the centre muffler for some back pressure to avoid turbo overspool.

Works a treat, the extra torque makes the vehicle pull like a train.

Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

[jimr1]

Just looking to see what people have done to extract a bit more power out of the 2.2 puma, was thinking 3 inch exhaust system with hi flow cat unless that's not possible, and can you do diesel chip on the 2.2 or ecm flash the best option?
I would leave the exhaust as It is , Look at re chipping !!..Jim :)

[JayBoRover]

BAS remap with intercooler upgrade! Makes life VERY interesting in the Puma:cool:. Makes me grin every time I "hoof it". Worth every penny.

[Witchdoctor]

Just had the centre muffler removed & a free flow sport muffler fitted.
The biggest change I noticed how much cooler the handbrake was against my calf. The engine is smoother & I think I'm using less fuel, will know for sure in about 200K's.
Found a local (as in Australia) that makes a dump pipe for the 2.2 puma as a bolt in product $400+ delivery
I'm thinking leave the rear muffler & fitting the high flow dump pipe then look at a remap later on.

Cheers

[Turtle130]

Just had the centre muffler removed & a free flow sport muffler fitted.
The biggest change I noticed how much cooler the handbrake was against my calf. The engine is smoother & I think I'm using less fuel, will know for sure in about 200K's.
Found a local (as in Australia) that makes a dump pipe for the 2.2 puma as a bolt in product $400+ delivery
I'm thinking leave the rear muffler & fitting the high flow dump pipe then look at a remap later on.

Cheers

I'd be interested in that one, can we have the name of the supplier please?

[1nando]

Just had the centre muffler removed & a free flow sport muffler fitted.
The biggest change I noticed how much cooler the handbrake was against my calf. The engine is smoother & I think I'm using less fuel, will know for sure in about 200K's.
Found a local (as in Australia) that makes a dump pipe for the 2.2 puma as a bolt in product $400+ delivery
I'm thinking leave the rear muffler & fitting the high flow dump pipe then look at a remap later on.

Cheers

Becareful, i have been told by Alive tuning in the uk that a free flowing exhaust can cause turbo failures. This is due to the vgt turbo setup of the puma.
I currently have a decat and rear muffler removed, ive left the centre on for some back pressure. Also got a egr delete, intercooler and remap to compliment these mods

[Pickles2]

IMHO I would doubt any worthwhile increase in power on a Puma Defender from exhaust mods alone. Ya might get a bit more noise, but that's about all. So, unless ya're going for a "massive" engine, looking for 180/190 hp+, I'd be leaving the exhaust alone.
Of course, anyone can prove me wrong, by putting their totally stock Puma on the rollers, remove mufflers or whatever, & then do another run,..
It has been shown by well regarded tuners in the UK, BAS, Alive, etc etc, that the way to go is ECU remap, & for anything over 160hp an intercooler is required. With hot Aussie conditions, I'd say an intercooler would be mandatory.
But for normal upgrades, they don't touch the exhaust, simply because, there's no measurable gains to be made.
Finally, & I'm not telling anyone how to suck eggs, but a "chip" is not the way to go either. There are "chips' about, several of them, that "piggy back" the standard ECU,......I wouldn't touch one. Only way to go is a remap of your ECU by a reliable tuner.
Pickles.

[1nando]

IMHO I would doubt any worthwhile increase in power on a Puma Defender from exhaust mods alone. Ya might get a bit more noise, but that's about all. So, unless ya're going for a "massive" engine, looking for 180/190 hp+, I'd be leaving the exhaust alone.
Of course, anyone can prove me wrong, by putting their totally stock Puma on the rollers, remove mufflers or whatever, & then do another run,..
It has been shown by well regarded tuners in the UK, BAS, Alive, etc etc, that the way to go is ECU remap, & for anything over 160hp an intercooler is required. With hot Aussie conditions, I'd say an intercooler would be mandatory.
But for normal upgrades, they don't touch the exhaust, simply because, there's no measurable gains to be made.
Finally, & I'm not telling anyone how to suck eggs, but a "chip" is not the way to go either. There are "chips' about, several of them, that "piggy back" the standard ECU,......I wouldn't touch one. Only way to go is a remap of your ECU by a reliable tuner.
Pickles.

I definitely noticed the decat with the rear muffler removed. Quicker spool up and torquier low and mid range....right where you want it.

[Witchdoctor]

I have done a load of reading in this site & UK sites.

This is my experience.

Where i live the cab gets extremely hot in summer even with the windows down. Lots of people had said once they removed the centre muffler completely or fitted a sports muffler the cab temp dropped greatly, with other mods in mind i opted for the free flow sports muffler to keep a little back pressure. I will also retain the rear factory muffler. That one little change ($250) has in my mind made the engine run smoother but more importantly for me the cab is cooler which i believe everything in & around the engine is also cooler. That alone must be a good thing.

As for chipping/mapping i will be going down the route of mapping with a local (Ashmore) having great success in remapping the 2.2 puma, the other plus with this remap I'm looking at $1600 with 1 rewrite. From what i have read on this subject that is not a bad price.

The very next thing i will fit before the remap is the dump pipe, i have done this to other turbo diesel 4x4's with a great improvement in torque right were needed.
After speaking to a fair exhaust shop owner (rather than one that just wants to take my money) his advise was to keep the factory pipe work due to its size & change the parts that are not working how they should. Now i have always used a company out the back of the Gold Coast for my exhaust work but they just wanted to take my money $1200 for a complete system & have not to-date done a system for a Puma engine.

This is what I'm doing to my 2.2 Puma.
Do your homework & do whats best for your requirements.

As for the dump pipe supplier, if i can get enough people interested i may be able to get a better price PM me if interested.

Cheers
David

[Pickles2]

David,..."Ashmore"?....never heard of 'em. Not that that means anything!!!....What do they do, ...any website, tune details etc,...there aren't many "local" tuners about.
What sort of power & torque are you looking at?.....Do they recommend a better intercooler?
Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

You could do a lot worse than talking to these guys.

They have some knowledge that most ecu tuners don't have.

www.maptec.com.au

[Pickles2]

Pretty smart looking website,...however, the background colouring/leather seats etc!!!!.....makes it hard to read stuff on the web page!!
Have they done any Defenders that you know of Rambling?
Pickles.

[tact]

BAS remap with intercooler upgrade! Makes life VERY interesting in the Puma:cool:. Makes me grin every time I "hoof it". Worth every penny.

same here!

[karlz]

same here!
Same same, and Im only using the 140bhp :)

[ramblingboy42]

Pretty smart looking website,...however, the background colouring/leather seats etc!!!!.....makes it hard to read stuff on the web page!!
Have they done any Defenders that you know of Rambling?
Pickles.

Yes, they have achieved 145kw/430nm with a 'what they call' moderate all round tune.

I don't really know the standard figure but was told by them something around 119kw/385nm.

So their standard tune gives around 30% performance increase plus includes egr switching and a few other fine things. No induction or exhaust modifications are necessary at this stage.

If it was to be overwritten on a Land Rover service update,(which would be accidental , not deliberate), they would give complimentary rewrite.

You can talk to Haydn , nice guy , gives you the time to talk.

Dennis

[Pickles2]

Yes, they have achieved 145kw/430nm with a 'what they call' moderate all round tune.

I don't really know the standard figure but was told by them something around 119kw/385nm.

So their standard tune gives around 30% performance increase plus includes egr switching and a few other fine things. No induction or exhaust modifications are necessary at this stage.

If it was to be overwritten on a Land Rover service update,(which would be accidental , not deliberate), they would give complimentary rewrite.

You can talk to Haydn , nice guy , gives you the time to talk.

Dennis
"Haydn"?!!....maybe a "message" there, my sirname is "Hayden"!!
Pickles.

[PAT303]

I'm seriously thinking of giving them a go,my EGR has been stuck fully open since friday and I'd rather pay for a remap to permanently close it instead of paying $800 to replace it every few years. Pat

[1nando]

I'm seriously thinking of giving them a go,my EGR has been stuck fully open since friday and I'd rather pay for a remap to permanently close it instead of paying $800 to replace it every few years. Pat

One of the best mods you can do Pat. 😉

[PAT303]

I may as well seeing the centre muffler and cat are gone. Pat

[Witchdoctor]

Ok,

Just received this graph from Maptec, looks good considering no other upgrade is required.

Cheers

[AndyG]

7000 rpm :eek:

[YOLO110]

7,000!

That seems improbable to me...

The Ford Puma 2.2 Tdci engine was never physically designed to operate up to 7,000 RPM... well perhaps once shortly before the 'bang'! ;)

Interesting stuff on here about this general diesel RPM subject...

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/80743-what-limits-the-diesel-to-revs-over-4500-rpm/

[AndyG]

I have just downloaded the latest Bas file for 150 hp, to get the closed EGR, a significant difference in file name version.. Sweet, :p, I think an annual update is well worthwhile,

[cuppabillytea]

I'm running the latest updated BAS 170 BHP Tune and a bog standard exhaust. When you already have 440 NM, why bother with the exhaust? If you're worried about heat put a heat shield on it. Cheeper simpler and possibly kinder to your Engine.

[Witchdoctor]

When i find the money ill be going the way of Maptec.
I will also remove the factory cat & install a dump pipe with hi flow cat.

After the removal of the centre muffler i am still amazed at the reduction of heat in the cab.

Cheers

[PAT303]

You'll notice more without the cat,it only takes a hour to remove it. Pat

[1nando]

I'm running the latest updated BAS 170 BHP Tune and a bog standard exhaust. When you already have 440 NM, why bother with the exhaust? If you're worried about heat put a heat shield on it. Cheeper simpler and possibly kinder to your Engine.

Just be careful of your EGTs. The tune will drive your EGTs up and the standard exhaust helps that to happenn, reducing your back pressure and improving your exhaust flow will help keeps EGTS cooler and provide longer engine life as a result. Ive done a decat and removed the rear muffler. Others like Pat have removed the cat and the centre muffler, either way improve your flow. Just some friendly advice mate, its your car though

[cuppabillytea]

Just be careful of your EGTs. The tune will drive your EGTs up and the standard exhaust helps that to happenn, reducing your back pressure and improving your exhaust flow will help keeps EGTS cooler and provide longer engine life as a result. Ive done a decat and removed the rear muffler. Others like Pat have removed the cat and the centre muffler, either way improve your flow. Just some friendly advice mate, its your car though
Thanks for that. What would you call an alarming temp, and what wold you say was the minimum mod I should do to reduce it?

[Tombie]

Why the rear resonator? It's straight through.. [emoji41]

Better a Decat and straight through Centre box [emoji3]

[cuppabillytea]

Why the rear resonator? It's straight through.. [emoji41]

Better a Decat and straight through Centre box [emoji3]
Thanks Tombie. I'll be checking the diagnostics more closely now. My next question wold have to be: What effect does reducing back pressure from the exhaust have on the Turbo?

[Tombie]

Quicker initial spool up.. And mainly cooler engine temps.

[Pickles2]

Have you guys with a tune fitted a better intercooler?
Pickles.

[Tombie]

Not for the 150... Have one for the 170 but not pulling the vehicle apart for a while yet.

[cuppabillytea]

Have you guys with a tune fitted a better intercooler?
Pickles.
Intercooler and silicone pipes will give the best results. I haven't done it yet because Service Agent thew out one of my hoses when I blew the little elbow which is not part of the usual kit. That made me nervous on the warranty front. Now I'm starting to think stuff the warranty.
Stranded cooling system is just ok but really you'll be happy to be rid of it.

[Beery]

Have you guys with a tune fitted a better intercooler?
Pickles.


An improved intercooler will give significantly lower intake temps. I.e 50 degrees above ambient down to no more than 10 degrees above ambient at full boost.
Those are my own measurements on my own vehicle.
I'd personally put that well ahead of any exhaust modifications.




Sent from my ZTE T84 using AULRO mobile app

[cuppabillytea]

Sent from my ZTE T84 using AULRO mobile app

No answer came the stern reply.

[Tombie]

Intercooler and silicone pipes will give the best results. I haven't done it yet because Service Agent thew out one of my hoses when I blew the little elbow which is not part of the usual kit. That made me nervous on the warranty front. Now I'm starting to think stuff the warranty.

Stranded cooling system is just ok but really you'll be happy to be rid of it.



Depending where you are and the ambient temperature it's not the most urgent of upgrades.

The 2.2 reads intake temperature and compensates accordingly - although if you improve cooling you will get more before it dials back...

[Beery]

No answer came the stern reply.

Haha, I hit submit accidentally

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[PAT303]

Why the rear resonator? It's straight through.. [emoji41]

Better a Decat and straight through Centre box [emoji3]

Too much drone. Pat

[Tombie]

Too much drone. Pat



Not a "hot dog" a proper box - and then we left the resonator on..

Not a drone to be heard :)

[1nando]

Have you guys with a tune fitted a better intercooler?
Pickles.

Yes. I run a PWR unit.

Tombie: i completely understand your logic when it comes to me leaving the centre muffler, i had exactly the same opinion. However when i contacted Alive tuning in the UK they said it was a good idea to remove everthing else and leave the centre muffler to avoid potential over spool issues with the variable turbo.
I still struggle to understand the logic as the turbo actuator is controlled electronically but they are the experts and im taking their word on their experience.
Even the bowler defenders run cats and mufflers but they increase exhaust diameter to 3 inch....

[Turtle130]

An improved intercooler will give significantly lower intake temps. I.e 50 degrees above ambient down to no more than 10 degrees above ambient at full boost.
Those are my own measurements on my own vehicle.
I'd personally put that well ahead of any exhaust modifications.




Sent from my ZTE T84 using AULRO mobile app

+1 on this point. Prior to fitting the cooler my temps were alarmingly high on the 170 but dropped 40 degrees after fitting. I Agree with Beery that this should be the priority before the tune. It also pays to have an alarm set up for EGTs as it tends to get away very quickly with the tune in place and heavy loading.

[Pickles2]

Have you guys with a tune fitted a better intercooler?
Pickles.

The reason I ask this is that more power means more heat, & that because of our much higher ambient temperatures than the UK where many of our tunes emanate from, Heat can be a real issue here, from a safety point of view, therefore, IMHO (I ain't no expert), an intercooler would be on my list at the same time as I installed a tune, & certainly before even thinking about anything else, because of the very high temps that we have here.
Pickles.

[cuppabillytea]

The reason I ask this is that more power means more heat, & that because of our much higher ambient temperatures than the UK where many of our tunes emanate from, Heat can be a real issue here, from a safety point of view, therefore, IMHO (I ain't no expert), an intercooler would be on my list at the same time as I installed a tune, & certainly before even thinking about anything else, because of the very high temps that we have here.
Pickles.
Can't hurt. I agree with your thinking but you upgrade will still work impressively without it.

[DieselDan]

I have just downloaded the latest Bas file for 150 hp, to get the closed EGR, a significant difference in file name version.. Sweet, :p, I think an annual update is well worthwhile,

Hi Andy,

So is there an update to the 150hp autobiography tune?

I saw Pete's update about the tool firmware update (which I haven't done yet...!) and I saw he mentions a v2 of the 170hp tune, but didn't notice anything about the 150hp tune.

[PAT303]

The reason I ask this is that more power means more heat, & that because of our much higher ambient temperatures than the UK where many of our tunes emanate from, Heat can be a real issue here, from a safety point of view, therefore, IMHO (I ain't no expert), an intercooler would be on my list at the same time as I installed a tune, & certainly before even thinking about anything else, because of the very high temps that we have here.
Pickles.

Pickles,remember the people who do these tunes have a very high opinion of the standard I/C and only recommend changing it when you go the whole hog.The best thing TDCi owners can do is remove the cat and centre muffler,both my defenders have the mufflers removed and if it caused a problem such as turbo overspool my Tdi would have suffered from it already seeing as it's run for over ten years without one.The heat reduction in the cab is reduced 100% and since having a free flowing exhaust we went from 520k's to a tank to over 600,the fuel saving is huge. Pat

[Pickles2]

No worries Pat.
I've done no mods yet, but I may, one day.
It's amazing how many different theories there are when it comes to upgrading the 2.2. There are many in the UK who who do not advocate touching the exhaust at all, Plenty of 'em running 170Hp with a standard exhaust,.....I've never even heard 'em mention removing a muffler etc for a "heat" issue, ...I guess because they don't have an ambient heat issue in the UK!!
But invariably, particularly when ya go over 150HP, there is talk of the desirability of an intercooler. All may be ok in normal driving, but high revs, heavy load, up a hill etc, on a heavy throttle, in a warmer day,....that is when I believe that there could be an issue in Aus without an intercooler?
Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

I have no muffler in my exhaust system .....there is no drone ...no extra noise.

Why should the same engine configuration in a defender be any different?

[PAT303]

No worries Pat.
I've done no mods yet, but I may, one day.
It's amazing how many different theories there are when it comes to upgrading the 2.2. There are many in the UK who who do not advocate touching the exhaust at all, Plenty of 'em running 170Hp with a standard exhaust,.....I've never even heard 'em mention removing a muffler etc for a "heat" issue, ...I guess because they don't have an ambient heat issue in the UK!!
But invariably, particularly when ya go over 150HP, there is talk of the desirability of an intercooler. All may be ok in normal driving, but high revs, heavy load, up a hill etc, on a heavy throttle, in a warmer day,....that is when I believe that there could be an issue in Aus without an intercooler?
Pickles.

Pickles,living in ''sunny'' Melbourne you probably don't notice the heat but up north,it was seriously unbearable.Have you done the flanges yet?. Pat

[Pickles2]

Pickles,living in ''sunny'' Melbourne you probably don't notice the heat but up north,it was seriously unbearable.Have you done the flanges yet?. Pat
Hello. Not Yet,..I'm mechanically hopeless, so I'm not quite sure what they are.
At the moment, I rely upon my Dealer, ULR, to work on our 90 (Service/Warranty), so I'd need to find a top class fastidious person to do the work, & maybe other stuff that I might want done, in the future.
I'm VERY particular about who works on our cars,...I don't mind paying, but I don't like scratches, burred screws, marks etc left on the vehicle, as a result of work carried out!!
Pickles.

[Baytown]

Ive just been speaking with Jason at MRA in Redlynch Brisvagus.
Im having the following done over 3 days from 22 Apr 16 whilst Im down at Canungra looking after a mob of horses.
Uprated intercooler
Uprated radiator
Silicone hoses
Waterless coolant
EGR blanking and shut off.
Cat removal
ECU reflash (British tune downloaded from the UK)
Engine watchdog fitted
Service
Very excited re the engine mods, and I'll post how it all goes after I get the Defender back.

Best wishes all
Ken

[Pickles2]

Which "British Tune", and are you getting it directly from the UK yourself, & downloading it yourself?
It all sounds very sensible & very good.
Pickles.

[AndyG]

waterless coolant , how much better than standard coolant?

IS it possible ot fit an oil cooler to a 2.2 Puma

[PAT303]

waterless coolant , how much better than standard coolant?

IS it possible ot fit an oil cooler to a 2.2 Puma

WTF would you use waterless coolant:confused:. Pat

[AndyG]

WTF would you use waterless coolant:confused:. Pat

thats why i was asking after post #55, i thought it was for high performance only

[Witchdoctor]

Have a look

Home ? Evans Cooling (http://www.evanscoolants.com.au)

Cheers

[AndyG]

I did before posting was looking for a more independent analysis.

[Beery]

waterless coolant , how much better than standard coolant?

IS it possible ot fit an oil cooler to a 2.2 Puma
Pure glycol waterless coolants arent as thermally conductive as water. So while it has a higher boiling point, it cant remove heat at the same rate as pure water or a glycol/water blend. Your tdci will just end up running hotter with its marginal cooling system.
The pressure in the cooling system does more to prevent boiling than glycol does.

If anything, a more diluted coolant (i.e. more water than glycol) will help the cooling system with shedding more heat if you're in a hot climate.

Also, your Puma already has an oil cooler. Its a water cooled heat exchanger, connected to the engine cooling system. So your oil temp. is dependant on coolant temp.

Cheers
Tom

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[Baytown]

Hi Pickles.
Its the tune that MRA use from the UK.
They send my vehicle details to the Mother land, who then send the tune file the next morning. Connect a lap top and reflash the ECU. I forget the name of the tune, but its not BAS.
MRA are doing all the work.


Which "British Tune", and are you getting it directly from the UK yourself, & downloading it yourself?
It all sounds very sensible & very good.
Pickles.

[Baytown]

Re Waterless coolent, all pros, no cons:
No corrosion
No boiling (ever)
Better for thermastat and water pump
-20 C before it freezes.
Change after 20 years!
As I will be towing, as well as I live in FNQ, any thing I can do to keep the engine cooler, the better.

[Witchdoctor]

Pure glycol waterless coolants arent as thermally conductive as water. So while it has a higher boiling point, it cant remove heat at the same rate as pure water or a glycol/water blend. Your tdci will just end up running hotter with its marginal cooling system.
The pressure in the cooling system does more to prevent boiling than glycol does.

If anything, a more diluted coolant (i.e. more water than glycol) will help the cooling system with shedding more heat if you're in a hot climate.

Also, your Puma already has an oil cooler. Its a water cooled heat exchanger, connected to the engine cooling system. So your oil temp. is dependant on coolant temp.

Cheers
Tom

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Just got a response from Evans.

This is a typically response we get from many people researching our product.

Firstly Evans is not pure glycol and is a formulation specifically allowing the coolant to remain waterless.

Water is a great thermal conductor and when in it liquid form it is a better thermal conductor than any other liquid. However, water turns to vapour in your cooling jackets and this inhibits heat transfer.

Many people consider their temperature gauge as an accurate reading of engine temperature, this is not true, it is purely coolant temperature as it passes the sender. Your temperature gauge simply let you know that coolant temps are below its boiling point.

Metal surface temperatures are much higher, Evans will provide better heat transfer at the metal surface because efficient nucleate boiling will occur, Evans will remaining in its liquid form. Liquid to metal contact is critical in these locations and can only be achieved by eliminating water (water vapour) and by having a high boiling point. Departure From Nucleate Boiling (DNB) is avoided and Evans will not change phase.

Metal surface temperatures in certain areas are well above the boiling point of 50/50 coolant or water at pressure. This is why localised boiling occurs.

With regards to coolant running warmer using Evans ..... this is true. Very simply Evans will not dissipate heat through the radiator as well as water......but it doesn't have to. With water in your cooling system, heat dissipation is critical, this is because coolant-in temperatures (into your radiator) are already very close to the boiling point of water, and if the heat is not dissipated and goes back into the engine 5 or 7 degrees too hot, you're in trouble. With Evans, a 5 ? 7 degree increase in coolant temperature is nowhere near the coolants critical heat flux, meaning Evans can still effectively cool metal surfaces at the higher temperature and still be well within the engines parameters and will not affect oil integrity.

The below response states ?if anything more water is better? ..... more water equals lower boiling point, more vapour, more corrosion, less heat transfer.

David, the biggest mistake people make is comparing our product to how water behaves. Evans will behave differently to water..... because it's not water.

There are many misconceptions regarding our product and the below email is a classic example.

If you have any further questions, I am always happy to answer.

In the meantime I suggest reading up on ?nucleate boiling? and 'departure from nucleate boiling? to understand what is happening in your cooling jackets ....... that the gauge won't tell you. We have not made these issues up.

Thanks

John Mallia

[PAT303]

Re Waterless coolent, all pros, no cons:
No corrosion
No boiling (ever)
Better for thermastat and water pump
-20 C before it freezes.
Change after 20 years!
As I will be towing, as well as I live in FNQ, any thing I can do to keep the engine cooler, the better.

Baytown, seeing you live in FNQ I've got just the thing you need,a croc repelling rock.It looks just like an ordinary rock but if you send me $500 in cash I'll sell it to you,I can guarantee it works ;). Pat

[Tombie]

If you sent a similar email to the makers of HiClone or Polarisers you'd get a similar response.... [emoji41]

[Tombie]

Hope it never leaks :) that stuff goes up in flames really well when it hits the exhaust...

[Beery]

The truth of the matter would come from a CHT sensor reading.

[AndyG]

There are any number of performance air filters out there, but I believe the oem filter offers the best filtration?

There is a detailed thread somewhere

[DiscoMick]

I understood an upgraded intercooler was required or strongly recommended for a BAS retune. Personally I'd be upgrading the cooling before I did anything to cause more heat.

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[DiscoMick]

There are any number of performance air filters out there, but I believe the oem filter offers the best filtration?

There is a detailed thread somewhere

I understand that so-called performance filters work by letting more flow through so make the engine more vulnerable to ingesting dust and gunk.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[El Rey]

Just got a response from Evans.
This is a typically response we get from many people researching our product.


I have no dog in this hunt, but interesting youtube clip of Jay Leno discussing Evans coolant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7PykrgzWPQ

[Baytown]

Thanks El Ray. Ive seen that before and read loads of info from the UK on the product, hence my intent to use it when the new uprated radiator is fitted in 2 weeks.
For those who think its snake oil, fair enough, dont use it. I'll let the group know of my experience with it either way. I just cant see any issues from any angle.
Best wishes all.
Ken

[El Rey]

Thanks El Ray. Ive seen that before and read loads of info from the UK on the product, hence my intent to use it when the new uprated radiator is fitted in 2 weeks.
For those who think its snake oil, fair enough, dont use it. I'll let the group know of my experience with it either way. I just cant see any issues from any angle.
Best wishes all.
Ken

The only drawback (apart from the heat dissipation debate) that I saw on some forum post was someone saying Evans is 10 times thicker than water and so might not be suitable for some vintage cars with weak systems - but Leno's vehicles seem to answer that too.

[PAT303]

It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist,I like the lasts for 20 years/makes the water pump last longer bull****,anybody that makes that claim will never get my money,complete bull****. Pat

[YOLO110]

I am puzzled about all of this.

The Puma 2.2 and 2.4 engines have no known reliability issues to date in the Defender. They have enough power/torque for the intended use. They don't overheat. They don't have internal failures. They don't catch fire. They are pretty well sorted!

The old adage... 'if it's not broke, don't fix it' springs to mind here!

However, if the user desires it, I am all in for modifications to improve efficiency, power etc etc... bigger intercoolers with bigger turbos' and correct re-mapped ECU's by companies who specialise in the Defender, having spent hundreds of hours on the rolling road with appropriate sensors to improve on the conservative performance maps provided by JLR with their OEM offerings.

Personally, I would not alter anything major unless I was after the above. And if that was the case, I would certainly do some serious research into options... having convinced myself that these options were things I definitely wanted!

For me, the 'basic' BAS or Alive UK re-maps seem sensible options that I would probably go for if I was unhappy with the performance of my OEM 2.2. However, personally I am satisfied with it is, how it is. Aside from the 'rev hang'... but even that is a characteristic that I have quietly learnt to drive around.

Just my 2c (p)!!

[1nando]

I am puzzled about all of this.

The Puma 2.2 and 2.4 engines have no known reliability issues to date in the Defender. They have enough power/torque for the intended use. They don't overheat. They don't have internal failures. They don't catch fire. They are pretty well sorted!

The old adage... 'if it's not broke, don't fix it' springs to mind here!

However, if the user desires it, I am all in for modifications to improve efficiency, power etc etc... bigger intercoolers with bigger turbos' and correct re-mapped ECU's by companies who specialise in the Defender, having spent hundreds of hours on the rolling road with appropriate sensors to improve on the conservative performance maps provided by JLR with their OEM offerings.

Personally, I would not alter anything major unless I was after the above. And if that was the case, I would certainly do some serious research into options... having convinced myself that these options were things I definitely wanted!

For me, the 'basic' BAS or Alive UK re-maps seem sensible options that I would probably go for if I was unhappy with the performance of my OEM 2.2. However, personally I am satisfied with it is, how it is. Aside from the 'rev hang'... but even that is a characteristic that I have quietly learnt to drive around.

Just my 2c (p)!!

When i had my remap done by Bruce Davis he told me that the cooling system is better in the 2.2 than the 2.4. Apparently the 2.4 has a tendency to go into limp mode when when pushed hard in a tuned state...id imagine he knows what hes talking about cause he's the only decent Defender tuner in sydney.

[Baytown]

Thanks Yolo, its the Alive tune that Im getting from MRA in Redcliff. I forgot the name of the tune till you mentioned it.
Pat, I realise Im waisting both my breath and my time replying, but bigger brains than yours or mine have researched and use the product. Yes, I could go with standard glycol radiator fluid, which is perfectly adequate, but if there is a product with benefits over it, I will trial it. The new generation of waterless coolant seems to be a better product than glycol.
I run LED headlights and driving lights where as incandescent globes are adequate.
I use gel batteries and will update to Lithium in the near future, where as lead acid would suffice.
Surely using the latest technical advance isnt automatically a bad thing? Is that a fair and reasonable assumption to make?
Best wishes.
Ken

[tact]

I am puzzled about all of this.

The Puma 2.2 and 2.4 engines have no known reliability issues to date in the Defender. They have enough power/torque for the intended use. They don't overheat. They don't have internal failures. They don't catch fire. They are pretty well sorted!

The old adage... 'if it's not broke, don't fix it' springs to mind here!

However, if the user desires it, I am all in for modifications to improve efficiency, power etc etc... bigger intercoolers with bigger turbos' and correct re-mapped ECU's by companies who specialise in the Defender, having spent hundreds of hours on the rolling road with appropriate sensors to improve on the conservative performance maps provided by JLR with their OEM offerings.

Personally, I would not alter anything major unless I was after the above. And if that was the case, I would certainly do some serious research into options... having convinced myself that these options were things I definitely wanted!

For me, the 'basic' BAS or Alive UK re-maps seem sensible options that I would probably go for if I was unhappy with the performance of my OEM 2.2. However, personally I am satisfied with it is, how it is. Aside from the 'rev hang'... but even that is a characteristic that I have quietly learnt to drive around.

Just my 2c (p)!!

There is another reason to go for a tune, the one I was seeking a solution for: Getting the EGR shut off properly. Read heaps about how to do it and shortcomings of physical blanking etc. Best, I decided, was to just get it turned off in a tune.

The greater power/torque and, more importantly, the improvements in driving smoothness were at first just fantastic side benefits (not primary desires).

In my case - the 150AB tune hooked me on the power/torque boost and I straight away ordered the upgrade to 170hp and the requisite larger/better intercooler!

[PAT303]

Thanks Yolo, its the Alive tune that Im getting from MRA in Redcliff. I forgot the name of the tune till you mentioned it.
Pat, I realise Im waisting both my breath and my time replying, but bigger brains than yours or mine have researched and use the product. Yes, I could go with standard glycol radiator fluid, which is perfectly adequate, but if there is a product with benefits over it, I will trial it. The new generation of waterless coolant seems to be a better product than glycol.
I run LED headlights and driving lights where as incandescent globes are adequate.
I use gel batteries and will update to Lithium in the near future, where as lead acid would suffice.
Surely using the latest technical advance isnt automatically a bad thing? Is that a fair and reasonable assumption to make?
Best wishes.
Ken

Ken,it just does my head in when people will spend nothing on correct maintenance/repairs but open their wallet without hesitation on rubbish like this.Mate,just correctly service your vehicle,don't rely on silver bullets and if it's hot simply drive to the conditions,use 5th instead of sixth,it's not rocket science.If you want to get better cooling put ''shark gills'' in the rear of the front guards like an L322 series Range Rover,google a picture of one to see what I mean,they will increase airflow through the engine bay and therefore through the radiator which will get more heat exchange happening.Increased airflow is the ticket for heat management. Pat

[YOLO110]

In my case - the 150AB tune hooked me on the power/torque boost and I straight away ordered the upgrade to 170hp and the requisite larger/better intercooler!

I take it the 150AB tune was from Pete at BAS?

[tact]

I take it the 150AB tune was from Pete at BAS?

Yes that's so.

[Baytown]

Pat;
Thanks for the info re the cooling slats, vents etc.
There is an interesting thread on this site to that effect for Defenders.
Re servicing, my vehicle is over serviced, i.e, drop the oil every 5000kms.
Re the coolant discussion, I just like to experiment. If waterless is suiable with no draw backs, then great.
If not, I would stick with OEM Glycol solution.
I would be surprised if mine were the first Defender to try this coolant. I see others in the UK use it with no issues.
Best wishes Pat.
Ken

[Brando]

Looking forward to hearing more Baytown.

[PAT303]

Pat;
Thanks for the info re the cooling slats, vents etc.
There is an interesting thread on this site to that effect for Defenders.
Re servicing, my vehicle is over serviced, i.e, drop the oil every 5000kms.
Re the coolant discussion, I just like to experiment. If waterless is suiable with no draw backs, then great.
If not, I would stick with OEM Glycol solution.
I would be surprised if mine were the first Defender to try this coolant. I see others in the UK use it with no issues.
Best wishes Pat.
Ken

No worries mate,I just don't want to see you joining the list of people with big engine repairs when it could have easily been avoided.My Tdi will hit 490,000km's within the next few weeks changing the oil every 10,000k's,your 5,000k changes is not really helping,spend the money on a de-cat pipe and lower the cab temp instead. Pat

[Beery]

Pat;
Thanks for the info re the cooling slats, vents etc.
There is an interesting thread on this site to that effect for Defenders.
Re servicing, my vehicle is over serviced, i.e, drop the oil every 5000kms.
Re the coolant discussion, I just like to experiment. If waterless is suiable with no draw backs, then great.
If not, I would stick with OEM Glycol solution.
I would be surprised if mine were the first Defender to try this coolant. I see others in the UK use it with no issues.
Best wishes Pat.
Ken

So Ken it's been a while now. How is the waterless coolant going?

[Baytown]

Hi Beery mate.
well, I’m back on OAT coolant.
Not due to any issue with the waterless coolant, but because I rubbed through an radiator hose when returning from the Cape last year. I had the waterless in the vehicle for approx 4 months with no issues at all. Temps remained the same on the gauge.
I though about trying it again when I installed the new AlliSport radiator last month, but decided OAT is more easy to deal with re top up.
Effectivly though, I had no issues in my vehicle for the trial period.
Good on you Beery.

Ken

[Beery]

Hi Beery mate.
well, I’m back on OAT coolant.
Not due to any issue with the waterless coolant, but because I rubbed through an radiator hose when returning from the Cape last year. I had the waterless in the vehicle for approx 4 months with no issues at all. Temps remained the same on the gauge.
I though about trying it again when I installed the new AlliSport radiator last month, but decided OAT is more easy to deal with re top up.
Effectivly though, I had no issues in my vehicle for the trial period.
Good on you Beery.

KenGood to hear. Apart from the loosing all your coolant bit. I was hoping you'd had it in long enough to monitor things like oil and fuel temp. etc.

Now I'm interested to hear about your new radiator!

[Tombie]

That’s the reason Ken had no noticeable temp increase.
His larger cooling capacity would have counteracted the Waterless coolant...

Waterless coolant *has* to run warmer, it isn’t as thermally capable.

[Beery]

That’s the reason Ken had no noticeable temp increase.
His larger cooling capacity would have counteracted the Waterless coolant...

Waterless coolant *has* to run warmer, it isn’t as thermally capable.I think Ken is saying he installed the Allisport after he'd already gone back to standard coolant.
But yes, I understand the characteristics around Evans. Thats why personally I chose to go in the opposite direction.