drive train is slapping me

[blackapache]

Hi all,

after a consensus from the wise. Have a 2000 TD5 with about 230,000 kms

recently had maxi drive flanges installed as well as all new bushes, adjustable a frame ball joint, new trackrod new draglink setup, converted to oiled bearings. All done by M.R Auto so no problems there. I also did all the tie rods and ball joints a month ago as well, full service, and checked my steering etc which had a crazy loose pitman arm that I almost was able to pull off it's mount by hand. :o
I also installed a coil over RTC damper which is a great piece of kit too.
So anyways I started all this cause I was getting a good clunk from the rear a frame joint and a fair bit of wandering - drive train slap was minimal at best, a jerky 2nd gear but nothing to out of the ordinary.
So fast forward after having all the work done and my drive train slap is horrendous, I have to totally pull my foot off the gas before stepping on the clutch and grabbing the next gear and it has to be timed right or it gets a bit angry.
My first thought was that obviously having so much free play all through so many driveline components was masking the state of things and that taking the play out of so many components has shown the true state of it all.

Im wondering what the consensus is as to the likely culprit whether its likely worn axles or transmission related. My transmission is a little noisy in nuetral at idle especially as it gets hot. The hotter it gets the noisier it gets.

Any good suggestions for starting point before I block out my whole xmas break chasing this thing down? Whats the simplest fix to check, whats gonna cost me big etc?

I also think Iv'e narrowed my surging issues down to an electrical issue with some wiring and the alternantor so need to keep the budget tight for that too.

As always cheers for the input guys.

[jabber]

Next place/s I'd look is at the u-joints and if the hand brake is adjusted properly. Wouldn't cause wandering, but could cause the noise.

I had an issue where my handbrake drum was out of round and would rub the shoes. It eventually warped the drum and would "catch" at two points, causing a really bad slapping/banging sound from the back half of the 110.

WRT the transmission noise, what oil are you using? Not sure if you get this stuff over there, but Redline MTL (http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7) quiets things down a bit. Might help add some life back to your trans.

[wally]

You replaced your drive flanges but what state are the axle splines in? Rear half shafts are where I'd be starting.

[JDNSW]

The drive line play is likely to be a combination of things, but you can check where it is by doing a series of tests. Handbrake on, get somone to rock the vehicle forward and back - if the back prop shaft moves at all, check the U-joints on it. Remove the rear hub dust covers and repeat - should be no perceptible movement between the axle and drive flange. Replace the flange, and if necessary axle, if there is any movement.

Also check for movement while rocking at either end of the lower links, or the ball joint or A-frame.

Engage centre diff lock, moving a few feet to make sure it is engaged. Engage fourth gear, engine stopped, handbrake off. Rock the vehicle as before - any increase in movement is in the transfer case. Disengage centre diff lock. An increase in the movement shows free play either in the centre diff or front axle. How much is in the front axle can be determined by centre diff unlocked, transfer in neutral, handbrake on - how far can you turn prop shaft?

Also note, as suggested, a lot of the issues from driveline slop are exacerbated by a dragging handbrake. Chock the front wheels, jack up the back, handbrake off, T/C neutral, centre diff unlocked, and turn the rear prop shaft by hand. Should be no significant drag, and no scraping sound from the drum. Do a full turn, as the drum may be out of round. Check that there is no radial movement on the drum, as lack of preload on the output shaft bearings may allow the drum to touch the shoes under load if the shaft can move axially.

Most likely problems are rear drive flanges and handbrake, in my experience.

Hope this helps,

[komaterpillar]

how come rear flanges flog out quicker than front flanges?

[JDNSW]

Good question, but they seem to. Probably higher peak loads (the torque when a wheel slips is proportional to the load on the wheel), which is, on average, higher on the back.

John

[harro]

how come rear flanges flog out quicker than front flanges?

Although it is a constant 4x4 the rears do most of the work.

[bee utey]

how come rear flanges flog out quicker than front flanges?
Probably has a lot to do with the front running CV joints that let the flanges align under load. The faintest misalignment of the rear hub to axle would create a fretting motion in the flanges.

[blackapache]

Cheers for all the info so far guys, I had M.R Auto do the flanges while they did the oiled bearing conversion - I spoke to them today and went through their notes and spoke to the guys that did the work they said the axles were in good shape and no problems there. I already had the maxxi drives on the front when i bought the car. M.R Auto also pressed in the adjustable A frame balljoint, I have just put all new bushes in too recently all superpro (which I know are supposedly a little stiffer) but it wasn't noticable till afetr all the recent work which was after the bushes.. It feels like its behind the cab and I'm leaning towards the U-joints or prop, I don't know what it was towing or whatever before I got it so who knows. I have had surging issues though which again could be handbrake related also so I'll get onto the mentioned tests and see how I fair. Ive seen the disc brake replacement mod for the drum handbrake... anyone done it? is it a big mod? can I buy it as a kit? cheers again guys

[JDNSW]

Quick check on the handbrake - drive a kilometre and feel the temperature of the handbrake drum - be careful, it could be quite hot. Should be cooler than the transfer case, or at least no hotter.

John

[rick130]

I have just put all new bushes in too recently all superpro (which I know are supposedly a little stiffer)

They actually aren't, they are relatively compliant unlike most PU bushes.

[blackapache]

ha I knew no matter which side of the fence I sat on I'd get a stir out of someone... Obviously I agree else I wouldn't have put them in!

I was just trying to take the politicians line through the middle.

What I should have said was I put in a full set of superpro's and I don't want to hear any crap about it! If anything the bushes are one of the better things I've done to the vehicle. I did them before everything else and the difference just with the bushes was awesome. It's a job I'd rather never have to do again though. I drilled every one of those buggers out by hand - what a nightmare.

Ive literally got a brand new setup from steering damper right through to tie rods, track rod, drag link, ball joints, drive flanges, wheel bearings, all seals, a frame joint, bushes - the old girl got a real under body make over this last month. I just wanna sort the other few drivetrain issues out and should be (touch wood) trouble free for a fair while.

[rick130]

Ha !

You won't hear anything bad about Super Pro on this forum. :D

Other PU bushes yes, OE rubber is invariably better, but Super Pro are mostly a better designed bush with the right durometer for each application.