How hot is HOT!

[jonesfam]

A couple of weeks ago I was driving up the Palmerston Highway from Innisfail back to Ravenshoe.
As I was on my own & the traffic was light I thought I will just try to maintain as close to 100kph as I can, allowing for some tight corners, to see how Ye Olde D3 TDV6 is going.


I also have a Scan gauge 2 installed.


So, under normal flat road driving, almost any load at 100kph & with any ambient temperature the S gauge reads between 88 & 92.
Going up the Palmerston I was getting readings, when I could look, up to 119. The cars Temp gauge did not move 1mm during the whole drive.


So, how much above normal temp does the car have to get before the in car gauge will warn you? Seems funny to me that the actual temp went up about 29 but the gauge didn't move.


Jonesfam


PS She went up very, very well. :D

[Graeme]

I can't quite recall the full significance but 121 was a threshold for the TD5 in the D2.

[Eevo]

I can't quite recall the full significance but 121 was a threshold for the TD5 in the D2.


coolant under pressure boils about 130??

[Graeme]

127 deg is when the TD5 D2 temp gauge needle drops to the bottom and turns on the overheated LED in the gauge. However by that time the head gasket was done and risked a warped head. The WSM dcuments the duty cycle of the temp signal from the ecm for a couple of temps with the highest one at 121. The Bosch temp sensor is only accurate up to 130 deg.

[shanegtr]

I was recently towing my camper and had my IID tool pluged in to monitor some temps. With flat road travelling the coolant temp was reading high 80s - low 90's. Going up hills I was just cracking 100deg. Engine oil temp around 112 with the higher loads, but that dropped of to mid 90's on the flats

[DiscoDB]

At 119 degC you would have been very much on the border line of going into limp mode. The temp gauge in a modern car is more like a 4 position indicator (cold / warm / normal / too hot). The halfway point represents the car is in the normal allowable range. This will be at least a 30-40 deg band where it does not move. Once it does start moving upwards again then you are into overheat range and need to back off urgently (or the ECU will intervene anyway and go into limp mode).

Of course if you did not have the ScanGuage then you have been oblivious to all of this - which is what the manufacturers want so as not to alarm you to the normal variations you could see.

Now that you do know it was seeing 119, in my opinion this is too high. Sure it did not boil, but there was very little margin remaining. I would be checking you don't have an issue with the cooling system (or back off next time).

[NomadicD3]

Hi All,
Interesting topic Jonesfam and I hope you don't mind but I'd like to investigate this a bit more.
So.... What should people do to by way of preventative measures?
changing the coolant regularly? Given many coolants with anti freeze/boil have 3 year/100 thousand k "Advertised" life expectancy. What do people think is a reasonable time/distance to change the coolant.
What other actions would people suggest Jonesfam do to reduce the temp?
pull the radiator and have it cleaned and pressure tested? I'm not aware of any "in car" radiator cleaning products.
Has anyone replaced their radiator due to old age etc? If so @ how many k's?
Any other ideas/suggestions?

[Graeme]

I set-up my home-grown TD5 D2's temp monitor to go full alarm mode at 118 and also close the inlet throttle valve to allow not much more than idle until the coolant temp got back down to 115. It never got to 118 but saw 115 one quite hot day idling along in top gear so dropped a gear to get the revs up for better cooling.

[LandyAndy]

I would also question the accuracy of the tools readout.
I had an early Nannycom on my D2,I used it in instrument mode consistantly.From tome to time it would throw 160degC+ temps for a short time,sometimes -160degC temps.
I put it down to interference on the system,guessing its possible in these newer beasts too.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Hi All,
Interesting topic Jonesfam and I hope you don't mind but I'd like to investigate this a bit more.
So.... What should people do to by way of preventative measures?
changing the coolant regularly? Given many coolants with anti freeze/boil have 3 year/100 thousand k "Advertised" life expectancy. What do people think is a reasonable time/distance to change the coolant.
What other actions would people suggest Jonesfam do to reduce the temp?
pull the radiator and have it cleaned and pressure tested? I'm not aware of any "in car" radiator cleaning products.
Has anyone replaced their radiator due to old age etc? If so @ how many k's?
Any other ideas/suggestions?

There are "MUST FOLLOW" radiator clean out procedures in the D4 book of words following off-roading,guessing the D3 would have the same.
I have lots of overheat/no aircon issues in my grader,especially cutting fire breaks thru stubble at bushfires.The chaff blocks the radiators and is held there by the suction of the hydro motor run cooling fan.
It only takes a minute or 2 to brush out what you can with a bannister broom whilst the hand throttle is at full rpm.No issue with moving parts to get tangled in.Problem is we have had both the graders de-rate when we cant get out and have a tidy up as the flames are too close,scary stuff:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[Narangga]

Hi All,
Interesting topic Jonesfam and I hope you don't mind but I'd like to investigate this a bit more.
So.... What should people do to by way of preventative measures?
changing the coolant regularly? Given many coolants with anti freeze/boil have 3 year/100 thousand k "Advertised" life expectancy. What do people think is a reasonable time/distance to change the coolant.
Any other ideas/suggestions?

OEM coolant has a 10 year life.

Nulon says 6

Tectaloy says 3

Havoline don't state for theirs but say it was still good for purpose during testing after 250,000 kms.

Had mine changed recently as I was not certain how old the donor motor was that went in 4 years ago. Following that the coolant outlet housing started a slow leak and then spat the dummy when given a pressure test.

[jonesfam]

I bought The D3 new in 09, it was always serviced by a dealer until last year when I felt I was getting ripped off.
Since then a good independent has been doing the servicing & repairs.
I don't know if the coolant has been done but will look back through the paper work & find out.
She has about 140000k on the clock & except for the fact she intermittently uses oil, the indy & I have never worked that 1 out, she seems to run very well.
Those that don't know the Palmerston it is a steady climb from sea level up to about 1000m at it's highest.
If she had got much hotter I would have definitely backed off.
I saw the 119 just as I crested the first big climb & started to drop down to the Beatrice River, the second big climb after that she only got to a little over 100.
When I drive to work the ambient temp is regularly over 40 between Croydon & Burketown, at 110 on the seal she rarely gets over 90 on the S/gauge, on the dirt where I'm on & off the throttle a lot she will get up to 93 - 96 but only for very short periods.
She is due for here next service in Feb so I will make sure the Indy double checks the cooling system.
Still amazes me that the in car Temp gauge didn't move, if she was close to Limp Mode you would think the in car gauge would give you a bit of warning?
Jonesfam
BTW Does anybody else use a Scan Gauge?

[Eevo]

BTW Does anybody else use a Scan Gauge?

yes but not in a D3
ived used mine in D2, P38, jackaroo, Vy commodore, peugeot 206.
been flawless.

[bsperka]

Still amazes me that the in car Temp gauge didn't move, if she was close to Limp Mode you would think the in car gauge would give you a bit of warning?


That's the trouble with computers interpreting the data and providing it out as a reading. Approach seems to be that if you get a spike it shouldn't tell you that, but by the time it tells you that there is an issue the engine is damaged. No real substitute for a guage telling you directly.

[Rockylizard]

BTW Does anybody else use a Scan Gauge?

Gday...

Yes, I have a scangauge connected all the time (2006 D3 188,000km) - as a gauge showing -
Boost
Load
Temp C
Volts

I tow a 2,600Kg van and on the flat, irrespective of ambient temperatures (but without head/side winds) it sits between 88 and 92DegC. Interestingly, stationary at idle it drops to 82-83degC.

The hottest I have seen on the scanguage in the four years I have had it installed, was 108degC climbing up the Toowoomba Range from Brisbane - Ambient 32degC. But that was only in the steepest parts - for most of the climb it stayed at 104-105Deg and within 30secs of cresting into Toowoomba it had dropped back to 98degC.

OH - yes ... the temp gauge has NEVER moved above the centre mark irrespective of the variations shown on the scangauge - or the ambient temperature.

I bought the scanguage to identify and trouble shoot error codes .... Murphy's law has prevailed (thankfully) I haven't had an error code/message since I installed the scanguage. :) Perhaps I shouldn't have said that out loud ;)

Anyway, I love the D3 and doubt I will ever trade up to anything else as the changeover cost now would buy heaps of replacement/fixing should stuff begin to 'wear out' ;)

[edit: forgot to say - I travel full-time towing the van. The temps mentioned include whether towing or not]

Cheers - John

[Graeme]

Worth ensuring that its not down on coolant. The water outlet assembly fails with an initial weep then eventually lets go completely.

[mowog]

I have a Scan Gauge on my D4...

I do tow a big van and I mostly see 90-105 as the temp while towing and 85 without the van.

On a recent trip over Cunningham's Gap I saw 117 and the cars gauge did jump up to a higher reading for a short time. It was a very hot day which I suspect had a lot to do with the high readings.

The D4 is almost 6 years and has a full dealer service history plus half service oil changes. I will be getting a cooling system service done just to get things checked.

[Narangga]

Worth ensuring that its not down on coolant. The water outlet assembly fails with an initial weep then eventually lets go completely.

Yes it does. My coolant level started dropping slowly a week after it was changed. Fortunately for me the assembly failed under the pressure test in the workshop.

[PeterOZ]

Think I need to get myself a scanguage!


When I had the engine relaced a few months back they did say the radiator was about 2/3rds blocked though walsyas had the coolant serviced as well as engine servicings. Has only been on beach twice so no serious offroad. I was surprised it was so blocked.

[NomadicD3]

Think I need to get myself a scanguage!


When I had the engine relaced a few months back they did say the radiator was about 2/3rds blocked though walsyas had the coolant serviced as well as engine servicings. Has only been on beach twice so no serious offroad. I was surprised it was so blocked.


Hi Peter,
Mind if I ask how many K's on the vehicle. I'm only asking as mine's at 230k now and whilst the coolant has been changed twice in that time I was thinking it may be time to pull the radiator and have it cleaned and tested.
Maybe we should do a bulk buy on scan gauges LOL

Hi Dale,
I did realise that I should have written "at least 3 years and 100k" on most coolants but I was wondering if anyone would leave their coolant for 3-10 years or 250 000k's? It's a bit like the ZF gearboxes being "sealed for life"? Which I guess is technically true, if you don't ever change the oil and the gearbox fails at whatever the K's then that is the life of the gearbox.......:Rolling:

[~Rich~]

All depends on what level you want to spend, you can buy a decent Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and use the Torque Pro app for Android or Dash Command for IOS and get real time read outs on many things incl Coolant temp.

[shanegtr]

Hi Peter,
Mind if I ask how many K's on the vehicle. I'm only asking as mine's at 230k now and whilst the coolant has been changed twice in that time I was thinking it may be time to pull the radiator and have it cleaned and tested.
Maybe we should do a bulk buy on scan gauges LOL

Hi Dale,
I did realise that I should have written "at least 3 years and 100k" on most coolants but I was wondering if anyone would leave their coolant for 3-10 years or 250 000k's? It's a bit like the ZF gearboxes being "sealed for life"? Which I guess is technically true, if you don't ever change the oil and the gearbox fails at whatever the K's then that is the life of the gearbox.......:Rolling:
Main issue with coolants is that they turn acidic over time. So as long as the PH is still acceptable and theres no dirt and crud circulating around then it "should" be ok

[Narangga]

Hi Dale,
I did realise that I should have written "at least 3 years and 100k" on most coolants but I was wondering if anyone would leave their coolant for 3-10 years or 250 000k's? It's a bit like the ZF gearboxes being "sealed for life"? Which I guess is technically true, if you don't ever change the oil and the gearbox fails at whatever the K's then that is the life of the gearbox.......:Rolling:

No worries. It was in my thinking due to the issues I have been having with the adaptor leaking and then failing.


Main issue with coolants is that they turn acidic over time. So as long as the PH is still acceptable and theres no dirt and crud circulating around then it "should" be ok

Which is the precise reason I had mine changed. Donor engine has been in for 4 years and 65,000km and was 25,000km old when implanted. Even though one may assume that the coolant was new when the replacement engine was installed in the vehicle I decided to play safe and change the coolant. Which I think possibly saved me having some heartache if the coolant adaptor had failed completely unexpectedly...

[LandyAndy]

The red OAT coolants turn black when they are contaminated and do draw iron as will be detected in a coolant test.
We had a CAT12H grader that had a faulty radiator cap,it turned the CAT OATcoolant(same as LR coolant) black.
We kept flushing the coolant and replacing,would turn black within weeks.I read the workshop manual,as part of the flushing there was an additional pipe out of sight that had a drain.Once that was flushed normality returned and the coolant stayed red.
20lt CAT extended life coolant(OAT) is around $100 for 20lt ready to use from any CAT dealer,it actually exceeds Land Rovers D2 Specs for OAT coolant.Pretty sure the coolant spec hasnt changed for the newer Discos.PLEASE CHECK before buying.
Andrew

[PeterOZ]

Hi Peter,
Mind if I ask how many K's on the vehicle. I'm only asking as mine's at 230k now and whilst the coolant has been changed twice in that time I was thinking it may be time to pull the radiator and have it cleaned and tested.
Maybe we should do a bulk buy on scan gauges LOL





it had 202,000 when it had it's heart transplant. From memory the stealer had done a flush on it once or twice.


Probably would be worth getting yours checked though might be major surgery to get it out if it proves to have blockages.


There seems to be a plethora of these scan gadgets, I'd really like to know which is the better one without spending a fortune. Reading and clearing codes, reading vehciles specs on the fly especailly temps on engine and transmission would be very useful.


I drove old trucks and semis in my younger days so quite used to nursing engines up hills and allowing them to rest. You tend to get a feel for when an engine is stressed and not happy.


I don't understand the need to fly up a hill at mach 2 with cruise control on! Turbo would be at max boost, engine under max stress and people wonder why it got hot! :angel:

[PeterOZ]

shame that torque pro don't do an app for iphones! ;)




any suggestions for a good "dongle" ??

[LRD414]

I reckon one good option is the Gap iiD Tool but it's not cheap. Its "Live Values" functionality gives you access to lots of data including temperature etc but it also does all the fault reading and clearing, as well as ECU flashing (older models), suspension height setting and CCF changes. You'd need to get the Bluetooth version so that you can put the live values onto your phone or tablet. And also a mount for your phone if you want to display values continuously while driving.

I came across a few OBDII dongles with Bluetooth (links below) but never went ahead due to getting the iiD Tool and considering it an "all-in-one" solution that suited my needs. These other ones seemed to have some good reviews but I have no personal experience with them. Suitability with Land Rover would need to be confirmed.

Regards,
Scott

http://gas2.org/2014/02/26/turn-car-smart-car-bluetooth-obd-ii-adapter/ (http://gas2.org/2014/02/26/turn-car-smart-car-bluetooth-obd-ii-adapter/)
http://www.cravenspeed.com/obdii-connector/ (http://www.cravenspeed.com/obdii-connector/)
http://www.plxdevices.com/Kiwi-2-OBD2-OBDII-Wireless-Diagnostic-Scanner-s/124.htm (http://www.plxdevices.com/Kiwi-2-OBD2-OBDII-Wireless-Diagnostic-Scanner-s/124.htm)
http://www.lemurmonitors.com/ (http://www.lemurmonitors.com/)

[jonesfam]

it had 202,000 when it had it's heart transplant. From memory the stealer had done a flush on it once or twice.


Probably would be worth getting yours checked though might be major surgery to get it out if it proves to have blockages.


There seems to be a plethora of these scan gadgets, I'd really like to know which is the better one without spending a fortune. Reading and clearing codes, reading vehciles specs on the fly especailly temps on engine and transmission would be very useful.


I drove old trucks and semis in my younger days so quite used to nursing engines up hills and allowing them to rest. You tend to get a feel for when an engine is stressed and not happy.


I don't understand the need to fly up a hill at mach 2 with cruise control on! Turbo would be at max boost, engine under max stress and people wonder why it got hot! :angel:


I didn't have cruise control on, I stuck to or under the speed limit & I wanted to test how the D3 was performing as although it does regular long runs it has had an easy life of late.
I was not wanting to stress either the car or myself, just see how she went & was quite prepared to back off.;)
Jonesfam