RFSU at Auction

[rathgar]

So on the topic of compliance and rego.

The vehicle at the current grays auction that states RFSU on its compliance plate that does not have a NSW blue slip.

Could it be registered as it is?

[87County]

in NSW it depends ....

but not as it is :)

[rathgar]

No I figured that .... but how do you draw the line between that vehicle and a pedestrian maiming shovel bracket on a run of the mill GS or FFR?

[juddy]

Can be done, theres one running around already but you would need to change a few things, not the spare wheels on the door there fine for RW.

[87County]

Can be done, theres one running around already but you would need to change a few things, not the spare wheels on the door there fine for RW.

It has been said that you can do just about anything in QLD :D

[Dervish]

It has been said that you can do just about anything in QLD :D


The one Juddy's probably talking about is in NSW. You're not wrong though :)

[rathgar]

Yes but did it leave the factory like that and with its compliance plate? Obviously it can be modified for registration but as I said earlier where is the line.

[Mick_Marsh]

So on the topic of compliance and rego.

The vehicle at the current grays auction that states RFSU on its compliance plate that does not have a NSW blue slip.

Could it be registered as it is?
Why not? What concerns you?

[Ranga]

What auction is this?

[Mick_Marsh]

What auction is this?
You blinked. You missed it.
https://www.australianfrontlinemachinery.com.au/

They auction the stuff on Grays.

[Ranga]

You blinked. You missed it.
https://www.australianfrontlinemachinery.com.au/

They auction the stuff on Grays.

Yep, understand it all goes through Grays, just wondered when this auction finished. Not really interested in a vehicle, just keen to see what else they move on.

[Mick_Marsh]

Yep, understand it all goes through Grays, just wondered when this auction finished. Not really interested in a vehicle, just keen to see what else they move on.
This is what we're talking about:
Land Rover 110 4X4 Surveillance & Reconnaissance Soft Top 11/1990 Auction (0029-5016919) | GraysOnline Australia (http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0029-5016919/transport-trucks-and-trailers/land-rover-110-4x4-surveillance-reconnaissance-soft-top-11-1990)

[mudmouse]

Yes but did it leave the factory like that and with its compliance plate? Obviously it can be modified for registration but as I said earlier where is the line.

I'd very much doubt it left JRA like that - the adaption to its current form most likely evolved in service, like the RFSV's.

As for rego, it would need a windscreen for starters, and the door latch mechanisms would be anti-burst, and that MG mount on the head impact/dash pad is a no-no, etc etc....

Spoil sport rego mob :mad:

[rathgar]

Why not? What concerns you?

Personally - nothing - but bugs in the eyes at 100 aren't much fun.

[rathgar]

I'd very much doubt it left JRA like that - the adaption to its current form most likely evolved in service, like the RFSV's.
.....

This is more what I'm interested in. What did it look like when it left the factory?

What was added by whom and when?

And the most interesting thing is the compliance plate states it is a 3 seater. Which one of the extra seats complies? How is it set up? What factory set up does this allow us to copy and install an extra seat that doesn't need any (as much maybe) engineering to have an extra seat?

[Mick_Marsh]

Personally - nothing - but bugs in the eyes at 100 aren't much fun.
Wear goggles.

[Mick_Marsh]

And the most interesting thing is the compliance plate states it is a 3 seater. Which one of the extra seats complies? How is it set up? What factory set up does this allow us to copy and install an extra seat that doesn't need any (as much maybe) engineering to have an extra seat?
Mine is a 2 seater but has 3 on the compliance plate. Not an issue.

[dingsy]

I think they're up there in the ranks for ugliest Land Rover ever, my guess is you'd spend most of your time converting it back to be more like a GS and then still have issues getting it on the road. The full width tailgate is good though

[Mick_Marsh]

I'd love to have it. I'd leave it as is.

[Landybitz]

It has been said that you can do just about anything in QLD :D

Its in NSW not QLD, I don't think you can run with no doors in QLD

[rathgar]

Mine is a 2 seater but has 3 on the compliance plate. Not an issue.

You haven't really answered my query. I'm intested in the compliance of the third seat. Is it one the rear facing ones? Why 3 and not 4? Do they have belts?

[Barefoot Dave]

Rathgar, the vehicle in question is an SRV. surveillance/reconnaissance vehicle. 2+2 designed for RAinf battalions and raaf airfield defense guards.
It is built up from an early delivery RFSV 2+1 ( regional forces surveillance vehicle). Yes yes,I know, the comp plate says RFSU. They were still sorting their nomenclature at that stage, though the RFSUs had been around for 6-8 yrs by then.
The early builds were compl for 3, the later ones ('91) were the standard Perentie 2 seat compl.
Depending on where you take it to get registered, you will need a std windscreen (bolts back on), remove the wire cutting/front protection bar. The awol adventures vehicle that Juddy was referring to was passed with the wheel carrying doors in place. Just depends on the inspectors version of protrusions.
They have 4 point harness in the rear seats (as do RFSV) but you will need a lower spec lap/sash belt to pass.
I hope this helps.

[Landybitz]

Rathgar, the vehicle in question is an SRV. surveillance/reconnaissance vehicle. 2+2 designed for RAinf battalions and raaf airfield defense guards.
It is built up from an early delivery RFSV 2+1 ( regional forces surveillance vehicle). Yes yes,I know, the comp plate says RFSU. They were still sorting their nomenclature at that stage, though the RFSUs had been around for 6-8 yrs by then.
The early builds were compl for 3, the later ones ('91) were the standard Perentie 2 seat compl.
Depending on where you take it to get registered, you will need a std windscreen (bolts back on), remove the wire cutting/front protection bar. The awol adventures vehicle that Juddy was referring to was passed with the wheel carrying doors in place. Just depends on the inspectors version of protrusions.
They have 4 point harness in the rear seats (as do RFSV) but you will need a lower spec lap/sash belt to pass.
I hope this helps.

In QLD Dave you cant use either of those belts for the rear seat. And just because AWOL got it passed does not make it legal, If you are a dodgy inspector then yes you may pass something that should not pass.

As its not a Land Rover tested part and as such does not fall into a defined ADR category it may well be totally Illegal. Would be interesting to see if all AU states have the same ruling on tyres for doors?

AWOL also got a 6x6 troop carries with side ways facing seats passed, I thought the army banned them from the public roads with passengers due to how dangerous they are in a side on crash? Again maybe a different rule in NSW

DR2 ? Door latches and Hinges:
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2006L01362
Section 2. Definitions
2.3. "Doors" means hinged or sliding doors which lead directly into a compartment that contains one or more seating ?positions and which are not folding doors, roll-up doors and doors that are designed to be easily attached to or removed from motor vehicles manufactured for operation without doors. This should be enough on its own!!

ADR29 ? Side Door Strength
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2007C00735
SECTION 29.5. EXEMPTION FROM TEST REQUIREMENTS
Vehicles complying with the requirements of ADR 72/? are exempt from the requirements of this rule.


ADR 72 ? Dynamic Side Impact Occupant Protection
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2005L03992
Section 1. SCOPE

This Regulation applies to the lateral collision behaviour of the structure of the passenger compartment of Ml and Nl categories of vehicles where the R point of the lowest seat is not more than 700 mm from ground level when the vehicle is in the condition corresponding to the reference mass defined in paragraph 2.10. of this Regulation. -

Section 4. Principal dimensions
4.2.1 Testing Dummy dimensions

No. Parameter Dimension (mm)
1 Sitting height 904 ? 7
2 Seat to shoulder joint 557 ? 5
3 Seat to bottom lower rib 357 ? 5
4 Seat to arm 242 ? 5
5 Seat to H-point 98 ? 2

[Mick_Marsh]

DR2 ? Door latches and Hinges:
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2006L01362
Section 2. Definitions
2.3. "Doors" means hinged or sliding doors which lead directly into a compartment that contains one or more seating ?positions and which are not folding doors, roll-up doors and doors that are designed to be easily attached to or removed from motor vehicles manufactured for operation without doors. This should be enough on its own!!

ADR29 ? Side Door Strength
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2007C00735
SECTION 29.5. EXEMPTION FROM TEST REQUIREMENTS
Vehicles complying with the requirements of ADR 72/? are exempt from the requirements of this rule.


ADR 72 ? Dynamic Side Impact Occupant Protection
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2005L03992
Section 1. SCOPE

This Regulation applies to the lateral collision behaviour of the structure of the passenger compartment of Ml and Nl categories of vehicles where the R point of the lowest seat is not more than 700 mm from ground level when the vehicle is in the condition corresponding to the reference mass defined in paragraph 2.10. of this Regulation. -

Section 4. Principal dimensions
4.2.1 Testing Dummy dimensions

No. Parameter Dimension (mm)
1 Sitting height 904 ? 7
2 Seat to shoulder joint 557 ? 5
3 Seat to bottom lower rib 357 ? 5
4 Seat to arm 242 ? 5
5 Seat to H-point 98 ? 2Those ADRs you linked to do not apply to a Perentie.
Why mention it?
If an inspector got you on ADR72, either he saw you coming, or he doesn't know his job.

You'll be saying Perenties are unsafe because they don't have airbags next.

[rathgar]

Rathgar, the vehicle in question is an SRV. surveillance/reconnaissance vehicle. 2+2 designed for RAinf battalions and raaf airfield defense guards.
It is built up from an early delivery RFSV 2+1 ( regional forces surveillance vehicle). Yes yes,I know, the comp plate says RFSU. They were still sorting their nomenclature at that stage, though the RFSUs had been around for 6-8 yrs by then.
The early builds were compl for 3, the later ones ('91) were the standard Perentie 2 seat compl.
Depending on where you take it to get registered, you will need a std windscreen (bolts back on), remove the wire cutting/front protection bar. The awol adventures vehicle that Juddy was referring to was passed with the wheel carrying doors in place. Just depends on the inspectors version of protrusions.
They have 4 point harness in the rear seats (as do RFSV) but you will need a lower spec lap/sash belt to pass.
I hope this helps.


Thanks Dave

So the points raised by you as needing to be changed for rego. Were these altered, modified, removed by the ADF. What did it look like when it left the JRA factory.

[rathgar]

...And just because AWOL got it passed does not make it legal, If you are a dodgy inspector then yes you may pass something....

And then the inspector will be liable if it all goes pear shaped.

[rathgar]

[QUOTE=Barefoot Dave;2467340....They have 4 point harness in the rear seats (as do RFSV) but you will need a lower spec lap/sash belt to pass.
I hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

From the pictures both rear seats appear to be fitted with 3 point inertia reel belts

[Barefoot Dave]

Justin, I'm not going to get in an argument about compliance or otherwise of Perentie variants. Given the **** fight that our Victorian 'concerned individual' has raised across the country, I'm not going to give anyone what they perceive to be ammunition for forum BS. Suffice to say that I consider the SRV wheel carrying doors an order of magnitude MORE safe for passengers than standard.
Rathgar: check out REMLR for photos on the original configuration of the RFSVs. The rear seat was a rear facing seat on rails and could be adjusted to face rear or forward and at either end of the tub. The later versions that I have seen complied had the seats rotated forward with one of the storage binds removed to allow egress to the rear. The screen is a straight fit once the bars and Mg mounts are removed. They are additions to a standard Perentie after all.

[Landybitz]

Thats fine Dave, no ones arguging its a free forum to have a debate not be angry at people.

[Barefoot Dave]

Not angry, mate.
Just not getting drawn into an open discussion that has large ramificatios for a lot of people.

[mudmouse]

You haven't really answered my query. I'm intested in the compliance of the third seat. Is it one the rear facing ones? Why 3 and not 4? Do they have belts?

The only body to answer this is the applicable registration authority in the State the owner wants to stick rego plates to it, the rest is opinion, which is great for a chat but until someone hands over plates at the counter, none of us really know.

So maybe take the auction photos to an Authority office, ask to speak with an Inspector and go from there. You probably wouldn't get a definitive answer without the vehicle present but worth a shot.

[isuzurover]

You haven't really answered my query. I'm intested in the compliance of the third seat. Is it one the rear facing ones? Why 3 and not 4? Do they have belts?

IME usually an inspector will check the number of seats on the compliance plate and check that matches what is fitted (with seat belts).
Throughout military lr production the plate fitted by landrover usually said 3 (across the front) however that usually had no relation to the number of seats fitted when preparing the vehicle for the particular mil spec.
E.g. most series had 11 seats but were only complianced for 3.

[rathgar]

The only body to answer this is the applicable registration authority in the State the owner wants to stick rego plates to it, the rest is opinion, which is great for a chat but until someone hands over plates at the counter, none of us really know.

So maybe take the auction photos to an Authority office, ask to speak with an Inspector and go from there. You probably wouldn't get a definitive answer without the vehicle present but worth a shot.

Barefoot Dave has answered my question. The vehicle has been modified in service and the 2 rear facing seats, modified roll bar and seat belt mounts were not fitred by the factory and therefore would require engineering approval by an engineer approved by your relevant registration authority. My curiosity has been satisfied.