A sad Day. Goodby Deefer.

[JamesB71]

I was so excited in 2013 when I finally, after many years of dreaming, put my order in for a new Defender. If only I had known how disappointing and frustrating it would turn out to be. I used to be very active here, but I am so disillusioned with the shattering of my dream that I havent had the will to come here and talk about it.

The truck now has 95K kms and is about to come out of warranty. Its been on the tow truck twice in the last three weeks....

As many of you know, the deefer has a long running and well documented problem with the turbo hose. Mine has blown, split, been recalled and replaced lots of times. The car has left me stranded all over the countryside, city and suburbs waiting for the flat bed. I believe its been towed five times for that problem. Three times since the redesign.

My friends are amazed that I have stuck with it this long. They think I am mad, but they dont understand how you can love a Landy. The tow truck driver has a running joke about how when he gets a job in the Blue Mountains theres a better than average chance its me. Im on a first name basis with the guys at the dealership and they know my car very well. They are the poor buggers who have to repair it over and over again. Many times with the same recurring problem.

Other than the turbo hose, it was towed from outback NSW once when it blew the top off the fuel separator, and yesterday it was picked up after the temperature spiked up off the gauge, the vehicle lost power and I was once again relegated to sitting in the gutter.

All in all, my beloved Deefer has a ride on a flat bed truck to the dealer more often than its service interval.

The roadside assist people have been great. They always send the truck and organise me a hire car. They even understood when I needed them to speak very slowly and clearly when I broke down out of mobile range and had to talk to them on the Satelite phone.

The customer service team however, speak to me like I am the enemy with some sort of Machiavellian plan to cause them grief by maliciously purchasing their product and (shock horror) driving it. When it blew the turbo hose once again in November, with 92K on the clock I requested that they give me a good will extension on the warranty just with regards to the turbo hose issue, because they obviously havent sorted it out yet. They categorically turned me down.

This morning when I once again got stranded, I rang the customer service manager and asked him if he would like to revisit that decision and he said no.

As much as I absolutely adore the car, and when it is running it suits me down to the ground, I just cant take the unreliability. I have already cancelled a tour around the country with my daughter because I cant trust the vehicle not to leave me dangerously stranded in the desert.

So it is with a heavy heart that I take on the manufacturer of my dream car in an ugly dispute over its fitness for the purpose for which it was purchased. I still owe more than it is worth on it, and I will be paying that off long after the car has gone from my garage.

Ive actually been having major anxiety over this, losing a lot of sleep and even spent last night having horrendous nightmares over it.

Im totally gutted.

[simmo]

Sorry to hear your bad luck James. But i agree with you, we can put up with a lot, but unreliability in whats basically new car is hard to cop.

I am surprised the turbo hose continued to fail, and couldn't be sorted by using quality after market hoses and clamps. In that case I would have said bugger the warranty on that item and had a go sorting it out myself. Every story like yours loses land rover customers, and we've heard plenty. Gearboxes, transfer cases, driveshafts etc etc. Land rover should stop letting the owners do their R&D for them. They don't consider that people might think about the lifecycle cost of the car? Any potential buyer can do some research an find all these stories on the web. Unless you're mechanically inclined, have plenty of money and time, or have some deep attraction to land rovers it will put you off. Land rover has lost you as a customer, ( and ambassador), for future cars as well, I don't understand their attitude, Reputation is everything, they should do everything to protect it.

My friend just bought a new Prado, (55 K) the decision was a "no brainer" in his view. Why?, his existing 15 year old Prado has nearly 400,000 kms of trouble free motoring under its belt. Only routine services etc in that time, completely predicable and reliable. Why can't land rover do that? they've had enough practice time.

We recently bought a new family sedan, my heart was considering Citroens, Peugeot, Renaults etc, but my head bought a new Toyota Camry. I wanted something with; bullet proof reliability, a reputation for lasting along time, and reasonable comfort and economy. I don't think I'm alone in valuing these qualities in a car.
But good luck James with your next purchase, take care ; cheers simmo.

[AlecW]

I'm sorry to hear all the drama you have had with your machine. Buying a new 90 in Feb and really hope it's a good one. Have had to do a lot ( and I mean head, clutch, brakes, gear box, transfer case, steering, radiator, pinion deals, buku gaskets and much more) with my 94 110 but have put that down to age for the most part. Really seems like the odds of potentially getting a lemon vs a good one is a little too high.

Haha I've actually been apprehensive about getting a good one which isn't right when you're buying a new car.

Good luck and don't feel bad for opting with Hilux, cruiser, patrol etc. If it does what's on the label then sure. No need for loyalty to a machine when it has a high chance of leaving you stuck somewhere remote which is the very antithesis of what it claims and was designed for.

Regards

[Pickles2]

G'Day James.
I'm sorry to hear of your issues,....I remember when you were "active" on the Forum, as you bought your 90 around the same time We did.
I hope that you obtain satisfaction from JLR, as you certainly appear to have had a very poor run.
Regards, Pickles.

[El Rey]

That is a very sad story mate. I had my own woes with ordering a Defender and found the head office regionally and in the UK were of no help at all. I also just read an article on Jalopnik where their resident car lawyer says that trying to get satisfaction from a manufacturer is usually a lost cause - with a few exceptions here and there.

The thing that came through in the comments on that article were the strong 'lemon laws' in some states there in the US, which mean that if you say you're getting a lawyer involved then things suddenly start happening.

Whatever happens, good luck with it and who knows - maybe the new Defender replacement will tempt you if reliability turns out to be solid.

[cafe latte]

I was so excited in 2013 when I finally, after many years of dreaming, put my order in for a new Defender. If only I had known how disappointing and frustrating it would turn out to be. I used to be very active here, but I am so disillusioned with the shattering of my dream that I havent had the will to come here and talk about it.

The truck now has 95K kms and is about to come out of warranty. Its been on the tow truck twice in the last three weeks....

As many of you know, the deefer has a long running and well documented problem with the turbo hose. Mine has blown, split, been recalled and replaced lots of times. The car has left me stranded all over the countryside, city and suburbs waiting for the flat bed. I believe its been towed five times for that problem. Three times since the redesign.

My friends are amazed that I have stuck with it this long. They think I am mad, but they dont understand how you can love a Landy. The tow truck driver has a running joke about how when he gets a job in the Blue Mountains theres a better than average chance its me. Im on a first name basis with the guys at the dealership and they know my car very well. They are the poor buggers who have to repair it over and over again. Many times with the same recurring problem.

Other than the turbo hose, it was towed from outback NSW once when it blew the top off the fuel separator, and yesterday it was picked up after the temperature spiked up off the gauge, the vehicle lost power and I was once again relegated to sitting in the gutter.

All in all, my beloved Deefer has a ride on a flat bed truck to the dealer more often than its service interval.

The roadside assist people have been great. They always send the truck and organise me a hire car. They even understood when I needed them to speak very slowly and clearly when I broke down out of mobile range and had to talk to them on the Satelite phone.

The customer service team however, speak to me like I am the enemy with some sort of Machiavellian plan to cause them grief by maliciously purchasing their product and (shock horror) driving it. When it blew the turbo hose once again in November, with 92K on the clock I requested that they give me a good will extension on the warranty just with regards to the turbo hose issue, because they obviously havent sorted it out yet. They categorically turned me down.

This morning when I once again got stranded, I rang the customer service manager and asked him if he would like to revisit that decision and he said no.

As much as I absolutely adore the car, and when it is running it suits me down to the ground, I just cant take the unreliability. I have already cancelled a tour around the country with my daughter because I cant trust the vehicle not to leave me dangerously stranded in the desert.

So it is with a heavy heart that I take on the manufacturer of my dream car in an ugly dispute over its fitness for the purpose for which it was purchased. I still owe more than it is worth on it, and I will be paying that off long after the car has gone from my garage.

Ive actually been having major anxiety over this, losing a lot of sleep and even spent last night having horrendous nightmares over it.

Im totally gutted.

Sad story.. I hope I never have similar issues, fingers crossed so far so good, I only had an issue with the rear door rippling with the weight of the spare wheel, but the door has been replaced under warranty and I have ordered a spare wheel carrier so that problem should not happen again. If the turbo hose keeps splitting I would be getting an after market one, clearly the Land Rover solution is just not working it should be easy to get someone to fit a decent mod that will never split again.
You have had a couple of other problems, but it seems like the turbo hose was the big issue. Maybe you are getting rid of your Defender just when the issues other than the turbo hose are sorted?
All the best
Chris

[jackdef90]

I dont really get it, its a turbo hose, this is a minor problem. Just buy a set of silicones, and have a good hard look at how you secure them.

The problems youve had are nothing major, **** happens cars breakdown and you need to fix them.

[cafe latte]

See post 68 page 7 here is a fix that should outlast the car..
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/200956-puma-defender-turbo-hose-recall-notice-whos-received-one-7.html
Chris

[slug_burner]

Now that it is out of warranty perhaps you can get someone who will not be afraid of fixing the problems by using non genuine parts. A dealers garage would be limited to use the OEM parts otherwise it would be an admission that the OEM part was not suitable.

People playing with turbos have access to proper hose clamps even if they cost a few dollars more. The same for hoses. I don' know of your other issues but it will not matter what I say, it is a personal choice as to what brand of car you buy.

[PAT303]

Um,it's a turbo hose,it's really like just a hose :confused:. Pat

[1nando]

This is a sad story......mine was very similar with 2 gearboxes, 3 rear diffs, outputshaft, shims, rear axles, front prop shaft, rear yoke, hose leak......im sure ive forgotten something. The difference is i eventually stopped going to land rover and took my car to bruce davis and graeme cooper, and would you believe i haven't had a problem since.....touch wood.

In your case there are a couple of things to consider:
1) the lemon laws protect you as a consumer even after warranty expires. Any recurring issue that happens after warranty period that was not fixed during warranty period needs to be fixed by your dealer. If they dont you have been sold a faulty product and are entitled to a refund. I suggest you google nsw lemon laws and do some reading. I have used these in the past with LR australia to great success.
2) a LR experienced mechanic makes a huge difference. You need to get the vehicle serviced by people who own these vehicles and travel all around australia in them. Their experience is worth every dollar. I have no affiliation with Bruce Davis or Graeme Cooper, but having gone through a terrible experience and almost buying a toyota i can tell you they saved my car and couldnt be happier today.

Defenders are a great beast in that some have to be conquered to be enjoyed. It should not be like that when purchasing a new car, not in todays age but once sorted the vehicle will last a long time.

Good luck my friend


2.2 110 limited edition, Davis remap, intercooler, exhaust, terrafirma 30mm wheel spacers, snorkel, first four bb, apt tree sliders, apt diff guards, terrafirma rear bumprettes, mantec rear wheel carrier, Uniden UHF, hema HN7, roof rack, custom made rear draws, dual battery setup, hella ralye 4000 xenon lights, Engel fridge setup, puresine invertor.......coming soon upgraded suspension, diff locks and 33s, nearly finished......

[steane]

There must be a way to fix the turbo hose. Getting the dealer to the same thing over and over isn't working. Silicon hose and decent hose clamps?

Other than that, what you are experiencing can happen with any make or model, even Toyota. Just talk to a few D4D owners prepared to tell the truth.

MN Tritons are dropping like flies as have some fairly serious head/block machining issues that causes the head gasket to fail. A full rebuild fixes it.

The Defender engine is doing service in a gazillion Transit vans. Get it fixed properly by a independent as suggested below and enjoy it.

I wouldn't bother with the stress of taking on LR over it.

[stealth]

Um,it's a turbo hose,it's really like just a hose :confused:. Pat

I'm with you Pat.

Or I could relate my tale of Land Rover woe.

In the the last three years of driving my Defender I've have 15 flat tyres. I'm not joking either!!

[Col 110]

Sad story and I hope you can find a way out of this.

I have a new 110 and it has been perfect for 3 months - I am almost reluctant to modify it as it is running so well!

[Marty90]

The problem with getting the vehicle repaired under warranty,unless it's a recall,is that they keep repairing it to the same standards,i.e not repairing them at all,since the original problem remains. That goes for the diffs or anything else.If you have a problem with a diff under warranty,you just get another LR diff,nothing changes,so why do you think the problem has been fixed?Everytime I've had something fail on a car I've always repaired it using a superior replacement. It's just a hose.Get one fitted at a Landy specialist and enjoy the ride.:thumbsup:

[Wicks89]

Dont be afraid to talk to consumer affairs about this stuff.

Also, do the math on the $$ it may cost more to abandon it and buy a new car rather than seeing a specialist like graeme cooper. At least get a second opinion before you subject yourself to paying for a car you dont have any more.

[steveG]

James, if I can put a positive spin on it - sounds like you've only had a couple of problems and are not faced multiple different issues and "what's going to break next". As others have said, get the turbo hose sorted out properly by someone independent who deals with either turbo's or Landies.

I don't have a Puma, and my only experience with them is driving one around southern Africa for a couple of months in May/June this year. It did actually die on us in the Central Kalahari and end up with a 300km tow to Maun - but that's a different story ;)
From what I've picked though, if you've got one that hasn't suffered from major mechanical issues early on then its probably a good one and worth sticking with.

Have a serious think about what you're likely to achieve by taking on LR over it. IMO if you're already struggling to cope with with the impending conflict, then you need to be pretty confident that the outcome is going to be worth it. If not, you might be better to put the energy/time/$$$ into fixing it yourself and walk away from the conflict.

Steve

[LoveB]

I have been on a tow truck twice for the turbo hose. If I'm out of warranty by then I plan on just using silicon hoses. fingers crossed I dont run across any other problems

[spudboy]

That's a sad tale :(

I am selling my 2007 PUMA at the moment, but not because it is unreliable but because we need a ute. Seems like you either get a good one or a "Friday afternoon" one.

[JamesB71]

Thanks for your input guys, and I fully expected the die hards would suggest that I persevere... and if it was only the turbo hose I would.

In fact I had decided after the most recent turbo hose blow that I would just let the warranty lapse, replace the hose with a good set, carry spares and tools and carry on.... but then it overheated and all the coolant went missing. It didnt come out on the road, so either its gone into the engine through the head or into the exhaust through the reflux valve. Its at the dealer being dealt with now, and will be for sale as soon as its done.

I also do a LOT of kms, and many of them are in remote areas. Its all well and good to persevere with a car when you are generally within towing distance, or you have backup. Im relying on this to get me out of very remote places that would cost a fortune to get towed from.

To the guys who think this is acceptable and would persevere; How many times would you think a brand new car should be floated before its untenable?

Also now that it is coming out of warranty, I have no confidence it wont blow a head gasket and cook, in which case how much will I be personally out of pocket for a new motor?

Every time this thing has died, I have said "Maybe this means all the bugs are finally ironed out and it will be ok from now on", but it just keeps happening.

I bought this car with the intention of driving it for the next 20 years, but at the rate that it breaks down, I just cant live with the stress and inconvenience. My boss is starting to get seriously ****ed off that I keep ringing up with car problems. Its cost me over a weeks worth of holidays, one day at a time, every time it dies. Ive spent a lot of time sitting by the side of the road, or in the dealership waiting for it to be repaired. You shouldnt be dealing with that sort of rubbish in a modern, new, 50K plus vehicle.

If someone loves them, doesnt mind working on them, is willing to put up with it dying on them every 13,000kms or so, then they will get a bargain buying mine. Or maybe this is the last problem and someone will buy it and never have a problem. Either way, I cant live with the stress any more.

[PAT303]

If I bought a brand new vehicle and had the same problem happen over and over I would seriously make a scene at the dealership,lets just get this straight,it's just a hose,it's not rocket science.I would send a very nasty letter to LR head office and I would get a solicitor to send a strongly worded letter to both the dealership and again to head office,written on a letter head saying words to the effect that you will be seeking compensation from them because of loss of income because of their **** poor mechanical skills.I've always advised people to not put up with poor quality work from dealerships,I would not put up with this crap,I've had four new LR's and all four have carried me all over Oz and only twice have they left me stranded,both times because of poor quality work.James,give them ****. Pat

[Shortie]

Sad but similar story with my Puma, first time I'd ever had a new vehicle but all of the $1,500 Triumphs I had previously were more reliable than it. Half the time I couldn't get as far as the local shops in it. It was a standard joke that at least once a week I wouldn't make it to work, the stupid thing even broke down on a potential buyer during a test drive :angry: It does wear you down and eventually you get over the laughing stage.

Best thing I ever did was upgrade to the 300 Tdi model - talk about chalk and cheese :D

[spudboy]

I think you have been more than forgiving of the car. Totally reasonable to look elsewhere and give up on it.

I had a good run with mine but I decided to get something more mainstream for the replacement vehicle, so I've gone for a Ford Ranger ute. Never had a Ford in my life, so no idea what to expect, but all the reports and the owners I've spoken to have been very positive.

The 3.2 5-cylinder is what the Defender should have had. Great little engine.

[JamesB71]

I believe the dealer is as fed up with these things as I am. The tech joked with me yesterday that they know my car very well.... Ive just about got my own parking spot in their garage. I know my way around their coffee machine.... The tow truck driver joked yesterday that when he gets a job in the mountains its generally me.

When the turbo hose has blown for the third time since the redesign and recall (which land rover australia tells me is perfectly acceptable) the tech told me off the record that there was an after market fix but they are forced to use the sub standard oem parts that are very obviously not up to the job.

To the guys that say "Its just a hose, replace it and move on".... its not so much just a hose. When the turbo hose blows, it means a trip on the flat bed to the nearest dealer which is generally more than 100kms from me, a day off work while they get me a hire car and then a week without it driving a car that I'm worried about the whole time because the excess in the event of someone dinging it in the car park is more than I can afford.... then I have to drive to the dealer (katoomba to Narellan) to pick it up when it is eventually ready.

The first time that the hose blew, I could see where it had come off the turbo, and I suggested to the lady on the phone that they just send a tech out to put it back on and reset the computer, but she said if they go into limp mode and the orange light comes on they always truck it back to the dealer.

Just got a call from the dealer and they think, though they arent sure, that the exhaust reflux valve might be split and dumped all the coolant into the exhaust.

My family used to joke about my first car, a 1969 beetle, being unreliable because it used to break down from time to time, but it had nothing on this Defender. You would think that in 2015 they would have a few of the bugs ironed out of a car they have been making for such a long time....

This whole episode has resulted in me being really despondent and depressed. I cant keep it, but to get rid of it will mean that I will still be paying it off for years to come...

[ProjectDirector]

If I bought a brand new vehicle and had the same problem happen over and over I would seriously make a scene at the dealership,lets just get this straight,it's just a hose,it's not rocket science.I would send a very nasty letter to LR head office and I would get a solicitor to send a strongly worded letter to both the dealership and again to head office,written on a letter head saying words to the effect that you will be seeking compensation from them because of loss of income because of their **** poor mechanical skills.I've always advised people to not put up with poor quality work from dealerships,I would not put up with this crap,I've had four new LR's and all four have carried me all over Oz and only twice have they left me stranded,both times because of poor quality work.James,give them ****. Pat


I have to say I agree with you, dealers are lacking technical competency and I experienced it myself. It took them 5 attempts to adjust the centre diff lock switch as it was always switching off while in lock mode. They also attempted 4 times to fix a squeaky clutch pedal and still ongoing.
It took me 4 attempts to convince them I had worn axles/flanges and eventually replaced them( will install Ashcroft HD after warranty).
My warranty expires next May and will be looking forward in servicing it at a reputable LR mechanic here in Melbourne as I don't have any confidence with dealer service technical competency.

[Aguy]

This turbo hose thing is nut's. Why is it that most other Defenders have no problem (with turbo hoses) and you do?
Is it the same people "fixing" it?
Did they put the recall bracket on wrong and it's pulling the hoses?
Are they using the wrong parts?

I would take it to a reputable independent and get them to fix it properly.
There are no reason why it should come off after it's been fixed properly the first time.

I understand that you have had enough but would you feel different about your car if the turbo hose came off once and then it was fixed properly?

The other few problems are bad luck or could be due to bad servicing.

Selling a car and having to still pay it off is hard.

All the best!

[JamesB71]

Other than the turbo hose, its also had a split intercooler, half the driveline replaced because of backlash, a new clutch pedal box, a new air filter box box because in assembly they routed the belt the wrong way around a pulley and it wore a hole in it, the bar that protects the front of the underside of the motor replaced because it was smashed in and rusty on the showroom floor before I had even driven it, and was once towed hundreds of kms from outback nsw when it blew the top off the fuel seperator....

Its not just one hose...

[Marty90]

Other than the turbo hose, its also had a split intercooler, half the driveline replaced because of backlash, a new clutch pedal box, a new air filter box box because in assembly they routed the belt the wrong way around a pulley and it wore a hole in it, the bar that protects the front of the underside of the motor replaced because it was smashed in and rusty on the showroom floor before I had even driven it, and was once towed hundreds of kms from outback nsw when it blew the top off the fuel seperator....

Its not just one hose...

All these indicate a front end collision.I don't think it'd be possible to incorrectly route the belt.Split intercooler.Smashed bar. Get the vehicle assessed by an independent Land Rover specialist immediately .

[RVR110]

Sorry to hear this - I reckon I'd give up too. I can't help but suspect that they're just fixing the symptoms and haven't diagnosed the problem(s).

[JamesB71]

Ive owned it since new and it absolutely has never had a collision of any kind, front or anywhere else.

[Marty90]

Ive owned it since new and it absolutely has never had a collision of any kind, front or anywhere else.

Sorry if you misunderstood James.You said the front bar under the engine was damaged and rusty in the showroom.A split intercooler indicates frontal collision also.I'd be getting it assessed by an independent LR specialist to see if damage was done on the front due to impact. In which case it would've been done in transit to the showroom.Why else would the bar be damaged and rusty?

[weeds]

I dont really get it, its a turbo hose, this is a minor problem. Just buy a set of silicones, and have a good hard look at how you secure them.



The problems youve had are nothing major, **** happens cars breakdown and you need to fix them.


Yeah but should they fail in the first place????? But accepting it you are accepting non fit for purpose......

I switched from a defender to a non Land Rover ...... 40 000k and not a spanner has touched it.....and it gotten me everywhere my defer did......sadly without the style of a defer

[weeds]

Sorry if you misunderstood James.You said the front bar under the engine was damaged and rusty in the showroom.A split intercooler indicates frontal collision also.I'd be getting it assessed by an independent LR specialist to see if damage was done on the front due to impact. In which case it would've been done in transit to the showroom.Why else would the bar be damaged and rusty?


Because it's a piece of **** from the factory????

[bemm52]

James like Pickles I joined the forum about the same time as you with the purchase of a new MY13 90 it has had the turbo recall and the oil pump recall but other than that no issues..........except it had limited carrying capacity unless you remove the rear seats.
On the strength of this vehicle I found a MY13 130 in a car yard new in 2014 I negotiated a good deal because it was old stock,same price as 90 it also has had the two above mentioned recalls but but no other issues (albeit it had to go twice for turbo hose as I imagine some apprentice didnt tighten hose clamps correctly the first time)

Both vehicles are daily drives for my wife and myself and I get my servicing by mechanics I know every 10,000k not the stealership, they check fluid levels in drive train at these services as well as LR book services.

Sorry to read about you bad run you must be so disapointed. In this forum there are lots of Puma owners happy with there purchases...........but there are some...........horror stories

I went against the tide and went from Ford Ranger to LR a bit more seat of the pants but we love driving our vehicles

Good luck into the future what ever you decide and have a good Xmas

Cheers Paul

[Blade74]

I agree that not all dealerships/mechanics are equal.
I've spoken to a friend with a RRV, he kept taking back to a certain dealership with an issue that was happening over and over again. He finally took it to a different one and they sorted it straight away. Never an issue again.
Day/night difference.
I feel for you mate!

[Summiitt]

I'm hearing you on this one, my 130 has a blown motor, cracked piston, 2013, 75,000km on it. It's been idle in the dealership since 24th November.
I have earthmoving equipment involved in bushfire works, and I haven't got a ute.. Hired another ute to go to a fire today, got stuck, crap piece of equipment with a load on it, and still I don't even know if LR will warrant my motor.. Pretty sure I'll end up with a cruiser ute as I've almost lost faith in my 130s ability to get me into and out of the **** when I'm in a fire fighting situation.. Still running 4 defender tray tops with plus 300,000km with no issues.. Old school still works..

[Babs]

James, try Trivett @ Parramatta. They were awesome to deal with when I had my MY12 and boy did that have some warranty issues, I drove the Range Rover they gave me longer than my Defender ha ha ha (slight exaggeration)

They were very good with their service and had two good techs there. One a young bloke Ben who owns a Defender and knows them inside out and knows their History.

I too sold my MY12 and went for the Colorado not the Ranger. But guess where I am right now, back here doing it all over again. I think you might regret the decision to out on your Deefer, I know it can be a little frustrating with all the problems but predominantly they are the same issues each time.

There is a saying-
"if you keep doing what you have been doing and expect a different result, that's called insanity "
So change dealers or go to a LR Specialist.
DPL Bruce Davis is closer again for you, Annangrove Rd Annangrove. I really don't think you would have a reoccurring problem after seeing him.

Now if your buried in finance with your Deefer then keeping it might be your best option, just get past this hose issue and it will be reliable. At least at the end of your finance term the Deefer will still look the same, any other car will look tired and outdated. A hasty decision you might regret later.

And don't get caught up on the warranty crap, there are heaps of OEM parts that get replace and bang out again, because they are not suited. It is what it is.
Diffs etc just replace them with the Ashcrofts and alike and you won't have the problem ever again. So go replace your hoses with Silicons through someone like DPL and get LR to cover the labour on the invoice. It can be done.

And if you haven't spoken to an independent Specialist then there is the biggest part of your problems. Your expectations out of your dealer are way too high. The dealer mechanics just follow the book.

After you get your rig to a specialist let us all know how you go, it costs nothing for them to have a look.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[spudboy]

And don't get caught up on the warranty crap, there are heaps of OEM parts that get replace and bang out again, because they are not suited. It is what it is.
Diffs etc just replace them with the Ashcrofts and alike and you won't have the problem ever again. So go replace your hoses with Silicons through someone like DPL and get LR to cover the labour on the invoice. It can be done.


I don't really like this argument, because the OEM units should be fit for purpose. How expensive would it be it you had to replace all these things with aftermarket items just to get reliability. It should be reliable with OEM components.

From a few of the recent posts, it seems like it may have been 'dropped' prior to delivery. Interesting theory....

[MrKeswick16]

Hello James,


Sorry to hear your story.

There has been some excellent advice given by other members and I sincerely hope things work out for you, whatever decision you make.

In life, some people do the right thing, and others do not! Your Customer service manager has clearly not! Your vehicle issues are not rocket science, they're all perfectly achievable and should have been rectified a longtime ago, end of story.

It the interest of other members, what wonderful establishment were you dealing with?


Good luck.

[Marty90]

I've had good dealings with Trivetts at Parramatta also.Warranty issues were dealt with well.The young mechanic who looked after me,Ben,I think his name was,is a pom and loves Defenders.He has a Puma,and I think that helps. I've had the turbo hose done,oil pump and also front axle seals.This is a good example that you need the right bloke on the job because when the seal was done the first time it leaked again almost immediately.I took it back and this time Ben got the job.He took me into the workshop to explain the problem and explained that there's an upgraded seal so he'll replace both sides. Asked if there were any other problems.OK ,so these problems shouldn't have occurred in the first place,but I've been in the industry long enough to know things happen.I've seen Land Cruisers 6cyl TD throw a rod through the block,just out of warranty and serviced by Toyota.Not bashing Toyotas but they usually are used as the benchmark.

[Babs]

I don't really like this argument, because the OEM units should be fit for purpose. How expensive would it be it you had to replace all these things with aftermarket items just to get reliability. It should be reliable with OEM components. From a few of the recent posts, it seems like it may have been 'dropped' prior to delivery. Interesting theory....


Yes you are dead right none of us should be having any of these issues but it is what it is a Defender and these things most definitely happen.

Yes we shouldn't have to replace with aftermarket options to make them reliable but the fact is this is what has to happen. Good news is once they're done you won't have to do them again.

I got caught up in all the "this is a new car, it shouldn't have this problem or that problem, we're in the 20th century not the dark ages" way of thinking, so I sold mine.

Now I have accepted these things will most likely happen to me, if the diffs go in not going to bother with warranty I'm going straight to the aftermarket shelf.

Now I know not everyone can afford to do this, so get it fixed under Warranty and keep getting it done under warranty but maybe just put a little aside for when the time comes and your out of warranty then you can go aftermarket.

Your dealer is the biggest problem not the car, go see Trivetts and go have a chat with Bruce Davis @ DPL.
Let's see what advice the professionals give?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[ATH]

Whether it's "just a turbo hose" constantly giving problems or not, it's not good enough and I sympathise with the poster.
The Puma I have has had numerous problems sorted under warranty but now I'm having to pay to get it fixed..... and pay and pay.
Apart from "upgrading" the useless axles the most recent example is 3 grand (plus cost of a 2nd hand compressor to replace the original a mobile bloke stuffed up) to get the aircon fixed (evap/condenser) and get it back with radio not working.....arial connection broken and the cradle for the radio missing....:mad:
Apparently they've ordered a new cradle but have no idea where the old one is!
Facia seems to be misaligned as dash light shines out by the rotary switch for the heating/cooling.
I only took it to the stealer because of the facia having to be removed and I thought, mistakenly, that they would be the ones who'd do it properly.
We know things go wrong with virtually all vehicles but why should it be up to us to provide expensive replacement axles etc because LR won't install decent parts to start?
Or live with the thought of the shaft between g/box and t/box breaking?
Why should we constantly payout to keep the bloody things running right?
I've reached the end of the road with Deafeners and Landies generally so after 3 Deafeners and 1 Disco it will be bye bye after Xmas.
Might go for a Prado as if my experience with our previous Prado with over 4 years of faultless ownership including plenty off road is anything to go by, we'll get just as much enjoyment although I'll be forever polishing scratches out. :(
AlanH.

[4wheeler]

Read enough forums and every make is rubbish!

:soapbox:

[steane]

Read enough forums and every make is rubbish!

:soapbox:

Never a truer word was spoken.

[PAT303]

Whether it's "just a turbo hose" constantly giving problems or not, it's not good enough and I sympathise with the poster.
The Puma I have has had numerous problems sorted under warranty but now I'm having to pay to get it fixed..... and pay and pay.
Apart from "upgrading" the useless axles the most recent example is 3 grand (plus cost of a 2nd hand compressor to replace the original a mobile bloke stuffed up) to get the aircon fixed (evap/condenser) and get it back with radio not working.....arial connection broken and the cradle for the radio missing....:mad:
Apparently they've ordered a new cradle but have no idea where the old one is!
Facia seems to be misaligned as dash light shines out by the rotary switch for the heating/cooling.
I only took it to the stealer because of the facia having to be removed and I thought, mistakenly, that they would be the ones who'd do it properly.
We know things go wrong with virtually all vehicles but why should it be up to us to provide expensive replacement axles etc because LR won't install decent parts to start?
Or live with the thought of the shaft between g/box and t/box breaking?
Why should we constantly payout to keep the bloody things running right?
I've reached the end of the road with Deafeners and Landies generally so after 3 Deafeners and 1 Disco it will be bye bye after Xmas.
Might go for a Prado as if my experience with our previous Prado with over 4 years of faultless ownership including plenty off road is anything to go by, we'll get just as much enjoyment although I'll be forever polishing scratches out. :(
AlanH.

Yep,I'd go Prado,super reliable bullet proof vehicle,just don't visit Prado point,the first threads in the 120 section are all about faulty injectors, cracked pistons and blown motors,your better off with the 150 series,the first threads in that section are all about faulty injectors,cracked pistons and blown motors. :wasntme:. Pat

[slug_burner]

Set fire to it, no one should be allowed to buy such a lemon secondhand.

All you Puma owners don't know what chances you are taking. Get them into carsales ASAP.

Defender, more or less hand made, I 'd say very limited testing before going on sale. LR don't care about you $50k+ defer buyers when they are selling $100k to $200k Rangies.

You need a certain amount of savvy and perserverance as a mechanic to fix problems that are more than an oil change or part change.

I certainly recommend you get rid of your car James, you have been subjected to more than you can take.

[1nando]

Set fire to it, no one should be allowed to buy such a lemon secondhand.

All you Puma owners don't know what chances you are taking. Get them into carsales ASAP.

Defender, more or less hand made, I 'd say very limited testing before going on sale. LR don't care about you $50k+ defer buyers when they are selling $100k to $200k Rangies.

You need a certain amount of savvy and perserverance as a mechanic to fix problems that are more than an oil change or part change.

I certainly recommend you get rid of your car James, you have been subjected to more than you can take.

What do you mean i dont know what chance im taking with my puma???

Everytime you take a breath you dont know if it will be your last one! Nothing in life guaranteed except death and taxes. Many puma owners have done hundreds of thousands of kms with no issues, they dont get on AULRO and say;"hey i just did 250,000kms in my puma with no issues"...

There will always be someone who is unlucky with something, whether its finacially, career, love or purchasing a car etc. Its part of life.

To claim that you need to get rid of your puma becuase it "might be" .........any other car "might be" crap.

If you want to be so pessimistic then sell your house and blow it all at the casino because "there might be" a zombie apocalypse one day!



The chances of me keeping a vehicle that is made for purpose and been

[AlecW]

These are the types of threads that make me nervous for when my new Defender comes. Nuuuuuuuuu!

[EastFreo]

In my family we have my Dad's 300 tdi (300km+) no probs. A couple of defender utes that we've treated badly by farm hands but keep going (admittedly in the shed now but are 20 yrs old and only need a bit of work to get going again).

My 2015 has done 30,000 km without a fault so far. Might jinx myself but my aim is to go stock on this car for as long as I can. As a kid my memories are of us going everywhere and further than any Toyota. This car is with me for life. When I get some problems I will fix them because I know it will grow with me when we both have some ageing pains....

[EastFreo]

By the way, I had a 2007 Prado bought bead new. In 2012 with 93,000 km on the clock and less than two years of out warranty my injectors failed. First price form Toyota was over $7k. They came down to $4.5k. I was pretty annoyed. Ended up with a $3k job from United Fuel Injection. Don't believe the Toyota crap.

[cafe latte]

These are the types of threads that make me nervous for when my new Defender comes. Nuuuuuuuuu!

I dont know what you are nervous about, the problems the OP has were small except he had the turbo hose failing again and again. As far as I am aware the issue is fixed on the new 2,2's and even if it happens bite the bullet and give a set of silicon hoses to the dealer to fit. I fully expect to be fitting axle flanges on my Puma at some point as they are a known weak point, but I am not worried about it. The Defender is to be honest the simplest new car you can buy most cars today are like a space ship inside with the engine switching off at every set of lights. All very cool, but in a few years when things are out of warranty and things start to wear out all that electronics starts to go wrong YIKES!!!
I will take my chances with my Defender :D
Of course you can always get a 76 series with its v8 just start saving for your new injectors you will need at 100,000km now as they are 11 grand a set!!!!
Chris

[scarry]

Yep,I'd go Prado,super reliable bullet proof vehicle,just don't visit Prado point,the first threads in the 120 section are all about faulty injectors, cracked pistons and blown motors,your better off with the 150 series,the first threads in that section are all about faulty injectors,cracked pistons and blown motors. :wasntme:. Pat

Sounds just like that Hilux forum:D:D:mad::mad:

In fact at every 40k the diesel injecter seals have to be replaced for about $600 or the warranty on the vehicle is……gone…………

In fact our work Hi aces haven't been to bad,except for blown diffs,faulty injectors(petrol),and leaking radiators…..

i must admit there brakes are fantastic,never touch them until 300000k.

[Blade74]

I've also heard good things about Trivett at Alexandria. I haven't used them for service but know a few others that have and they've fixed warranty issues once and for all.
They recently produced a full service history of a car I bought and emailed it to me. I had never used them ever. I thought that was amazing service. Someone would have spent 30 mins printing the history and deleting the old owners details then scanning and emailing me.
Also there are good defender stories out there it's just people go on forums with issues to complain as opposed to say good things.
My 2003 TD5 90 has never given me an issue in 60000kms and is now close to 100000kms.
It's due for new front drive flanges but that's about all. It's been very reliable.

[Blade74]

In saying that I do feel for you and recommend trying a different company for warranty service. Give Trivett Parramatta a go.
Surely any dealer can handle warranty issues even if it isn't the original place you bought it.

[PAT303]

These are the types of threads that make me nervous for when my new Defender comes. Nuuuuuuuuu!

This is no different to when the Tdi came out,all doom and gloom,almost 18 years and 485,538km's later my Tdi is still going like a trooper.Four years ago I bought my TDCi,121,957km's and one adapter shaft that cost me nothing later it's still going like a trooper,and both have driven across more of Australia than any other vehicle owned by me or anyone I know. Pat

[tact]

First time Defender owner here (MY2013 DCPU bought brand new 2.5yrs ago). Previous 4x4 was a hilux, also bought new at the time.

Of course when it was time to look into another new 4x4 dual cab replacement for the older hilux - the first thought was another new hilux. But after test driving it was clear these vehicles need a LOT of mods before you even think about even light duty "family" jungle trips.

A new 2.2 TDCi Defender, on the other hand, already had 32" wheels and needed relatively little prep work (modified/raised the rear plough blade, fitted a nato hitch, front tow points, and some under body guards).

Before I bought my Defender in 2013, I spent several weeks reading all the forums in UK, SA, and AUS. Read the horror stories (multiple diffs, shafts, turbos, etc). But I also read how Land Rover seem to not argue and just get on with warranty replacements when things do turn to custard.

From personal experience with my previous new Toyota vehicle and from my knowledge of friends' experiences - with Toyotas and warranty - this then became the stand out difference. Toyota seem pretty tough about honoring warranty, Land Rover just get on with it.

So I went into Defender ownership in 2013 - eyes wide open. I figured that like so many others, by the time warranty was done I'd have a reliable vehicle at Land Rover expense. (As it should be).

In the last 2.5yrs I have driven my vehicle hard in the hope that anything that was inclined to fail, would do so under warranty.

Have had a pretty good run. Yes, a turbo hose split once and put me into limp home mode. The other turbo hose recall was done before any breakdown. LR had 2 goes at getting the aircon recall/fix done right.

I may have proactively removed any risk of Diff issues by fitting Ashcroft ATBs earlier on (for better traction given my vehicles lack of traction control). Diffs were fine at the time, no signs of issues.

Also fitted HD flanges proactively to remove some driveline slop.

Have been running a BAS 170AB tune for the past few months and still driving hard. No issues apart from tyre and brake pad wear!

Now 2.5yrs and 45k behind us - still a happy journey.

[jimr1]

James I do feel and understand how you feel . Land Rover have been my choice of vehicle for the last 40 years . I have been where you are , standing on the side of the road . Loosing money , letting customers down . Then the truck would be fixed and I would tell myself that all is well . My wife hates them . For some reason I don't . I have a 2015 Puma , when I look at it , my thoughts are why didn't Land Rover do these improvements years ago ? Then I look at the things they have taken away ! The list is quite long , I would have liked to see all the good points kept being added . It seems that one improvement , comes at a cost of taking away a good point . The Ford engine is ok , but was never designed for a Land Rover . as is the gearbox . We know they work , but look how far back in the engine bay they sit . I think Land Rover engineers have kept the Defender going , but only because they didn't have a replacement yet . If I asked myself , is the Defender a great vehicle , I would like to say yes , but I know that it isn't . Yet I still find myself defending them ! I would like to wish you the very best in whatever way you go !!.. Jim

[Jan]

First time Defender owner here (MY2013 DCPU bought brand new 2.5yrs ago). Previous 4x4 was a hilux, also bought new at the time.

Of course when it was time to look into another new 4x4 dual cab replacement for the older hilux - the first thought was another new hilux. But after test driving it was clear these vehicles need a LOT of mods before you even think about even light duty "family" jungle trips.

A new 2.2 TDCi Defender, on the other hand, already had 32" wheels and needed relatively little prep work (modified/raised the rear plough blade, fitted a nato hitch, front tow points, and some under body guards).

Before I bought my Defender in 2013, I spent several weeks reading all the forums in UK, SA, and AUS. Read the horror stories (multiple diffs, shafts, turbos, etc). But I also read how Land Rover seem to not argue and just get on with warranty replacements when things do turn to custard.

From personal experience with my previous new Toyota vehicle and from my knowledge of friends' experiences - with Toyotas and warranty - this then became the stand out difference. Toyota seem pretty tough about honoring warranty, Land Rover just get on with it.

So I went into Defender ownership in 2013 - eyes wide open. I figured that like so many others, by the time warranty was done I'd have a reliable vehicle at Land Rover expense. (As it should be).

In the last 2.5yrs I have driven my vehicle hard in the hope that anything that was inclined to fail, would do so under warranty.

Have had a pretty good run. Yes, a turbo hose split once and put me into limp home mode. The other turbo hose recall was done before any breakdown. LR had 2 goes at getting the aircon recall/fix done right.

I may have proactively removed any risk of Diff issues by fitting Ashcroft ATBs earlier on (for better traction given my vehicles lack of traction control). Diffs were fine at the time, no signs of issues.

Also fitted HD flanges proactively to remove some driveline slop.

Have been running a BAS 170AB tune for the past few months and still driving hard. No issues apart from tyre and brake pad wear!

Now 2.5yrs and 45k behind us - still a happy journey.

Sorry for the hijack - but quick question: did you upgrade intercooler - or just did the BAS170 as is? Warm climate - any effect that you noticed ? Thank you.

[JamesB71]

I understand the stalwarts here who have to defend their defender purchase, but I really dont agree with the position of " they are great, you just have to replace this and that, and then expect that this other thing is crap and you will have to replace that, and really you just have to carry spares and tools and know how to fix it by the road and then as long as you understand that the axels are weak and the drive flanges will let you down and of course the exhaust reflux valve will clog up and stop you on the side of the road somewhere, but otherwise they are great".

I dont want to be a mechanic. I want to drive it every day, not work on it. If this was advertised as a kit car that you have to build yourself I might understand, but this was an expensive vehicle and I guess I had expectations of what reliability a modern car should display.

Sorry guys. I know you love them, but unless you have a lot of time to lay under them covered in oil and enjoy working on cars as a hobbie, or you have the leisure of a spare vehicle or no need to get to work or jobs, then it just doesnt add up.

[JamesB71]

Sorry for the hijack - but quick question: did you upgrade intercooler - or just did the BAS170 as is? Warm climate - any effect that you noticed ? Thank you.

They replaced the intercoler under warranty.

[ramblingboy42]

James I'm right with you.

After owning a a d2 for 8 yrs and spending $70,000 to prevent it letting me down in the bush, I caved in .

I had enough of the endless necessary maintenance and costs involved in using a Land Rover as it was designed to be used.

6months ago I decided I'd had enough and purchased a Ford Ranger 2.2 single c/c 4wd manual , for half the price of a Defender.

It uses probably 20% less fuel , is 50% quieter , is easy and light to drive , room for my elbows etc etc.

It has only done one 6000km bush trip so far , but did it with aplomb.

I am genuinely happy to be happy to be out of the marque , knowing that I don't have some interminable maintenance issue to be resolved before attempting my next trip.

I just hope the turbo hose thing is only a Land Rover problem as it appears a few have had it.

James maybe one the members lauding Defenders here may purchase yours at a reasonable price to recover your losses or at least break even , after all as most have said in reply to you, "it's just a hose , fix it". They should be able to purchase your vehicle at a good price with total confidence , shouldn't they?

[cafe latte]

I understand the stalwarts here who have to defend their defender purchase, but I really dont agree with the position of " they are great, you just have to replace this and that, and then expect that this other thing is crap and you will have to replace that, and really you just have to carry spares and tools and know how to fix it by the road and then as long as you understand that the axels are weak and the drive flanges will let you down and of course the exhaust reflux valve will clog up and stop you on the side of the road somewhere, but otherwise they are great".

I dont want to be a mechanic. I want to drive it every day, not work on it. If this was advertised as a kit car that you have to build yourself I might understand, but this was an expensive vehicle and I guess I had expectations of what reliability a modern car should display.

Sorry guys. I know you love them, but unless you have a lot of time to lay under them covered in oil and enjoy working on cars as a hobbie, or you have the leisure of a spare vehicle or no need to get to work or jobs, then it just doesnt add up.
I dont agree, I think you are making the issues bigger than they are. Find a car with no issues from any manufacture, you wont be able too as all brands have their problems. Getting a Landy specialist to replace the turbo hose so it wont ever go again is not exactly an expensive or hard thing to do or particularly inconvenient. While the car is there get them to check it over and get rid of the exhaust valve that clogs up (all new cars have them all brands by the way). Axle flanges are not real good but strong bullet proof replacements are cheap as chips and not costly to have a Landy expert fit for you. These jobs done you have a reliable car. Or buy o whole heap of other problems from another brand. Google Toyota, Nissan, Holden problems on the forums etc etc all have there issues. Actually I know someone who has a Captiva with 20k on the clock which just had an engine failure the other day.
Chris

[LoveB]

I'm hearing you on this one, my 130 has a blown motor, cracked piston, 2013, 75,000km on it. It's been idle in the dealership since 24th November.
I have earthmoving equipment involved in bushfire works, and I haven't got a ute.. Hired another ute to go to a fire today, got stuck, crap piece of equipment with a load on it, and still I don't even know if LR will warrant my motor.. Pretty sure I'll end up with a cruiser ute as I've almost lost faith in my 130s ability to get me into and out of the **** when I'm in a fire fighting situation.. Still running 4 defender tray tops with plus 300,000km with no issues.. Old school still works..



saw yours parked up there yesterday actually.


Ive had backlash since new. I just drive to suit it. when time comes I'll change to better axles.

That said, in the times I've blown my turbo hose its been under warranty. trivett alexandria have always been good to me and I dont think I've ever left my car there without taking one of theirs out. (but then again we've bought a fair few landies from them)

i also drive my defender daily. got it in 2013 and I'm at 92k km. Only been on truck for blown hose.

I will probably get another daily driver just cause I dont want to wear the defender out too quick. lol but I keep telling myself that but keep driving it everywhere anyway

[tact]

Sorry for the hijack - but quick question: did you upgrade intercooler - or just did the BAS170 as is? Warm climate - any effect that you noticed ? Thank you.

Pete Bell (BAS) makes strong recommendation to uprate intercooler with the 170hp tune. So I did so. The allisport.

I had the tune a week or so before the intercooler arrived - tried the tune with stock intercooler a couple of times very briefly - monitoring intake air temp after the intercooler - sure looked like the stock intercooler had trouble coping. (Intake air temps going up with short bursts of heavy throttle, back down again on light throttle)

With the uprated intercooler fitted, intake air temps are always close to ambient. So it makes a heck of a difference.

Ambient temps: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Not far from equator. Year round daytime max temps 29C - 31C.

[MrLandy]

This thread is getting interesting. A disgruntled owner who has been really unlucky with dealer service / blown hose issue; A 'forum sage' dumps his Landy for a Ford Ranger six months ago but still following AULRO; and some good clear advice about how to proceed...

I've done almost 40K km in my 2014 Defender with not a problem. I drive it hard every day often on long remote roads or in harsh environments. I plan to replace drive flanges and I've put HD Koni Raid shocks in, but that's it. I've also done nearly 350K km in my 1998 Defender in similar and even more remote conditions. I replaced rear drive flanges and was only let down on side of road once with a seized alternator, and I had a rare dodgy garret turbo which I replaced. I realised quickly that regular servicing by a specialist independent LR mechanic is the best insurance and peace of mind, not to mention for reliability and performance.

It's understandable that someone who has had bad service or their vehicle has let them down, would consider changing vehicles. That is their perogative. What has not been said is that all the vehicles and issues/non-issues being described here are entirely different from each other, yet are being compared for reliability, and capability as though they are the same. There are clearly many different factors to consider including: intended purpose, design, mechanical/customer service, the way drivers use their vehicles.

Much anxiety is caused by bad mechanical/customer service and this is often directed at vehicle design. As others have said, there are similar stories of woe for all makes and models.

All 4WD vehicles require some customisation if the intended purpose is beyond the everyday urban lifestyle, but on balance Land Rovers require less than others. In terms of reliability, there are so many variables to consider including the approach of the driver and the quality and timeliness of mechanical servicing. All vehicles also have known faults that require fixes.

In my experience, on balance my Defenders are the best choice for me. They are not perfect by any means, but then nothing is. Which means actually perhaps they are as perfect as they are ever going to be. If a different vehicle was more suited to me I would change to that vehicle. It's simple really. We have choice of vehicle, service centre and how we use/abuse our vehicles. If we experience a fault we get it fixed. If the mechanic we go to doesn't fix it we go back. If it's still not fixed I recommend finding a different mechanic.

There seems to be much comparison going on between Ford Rangers and Land Rovers. Anecdotally, I wonder how many Ford Rangers will be running trouble free in even ten years time? Let alone whether the design will remain tried and true over decades like Defender? One is more car like, one is more truck like. They are entirely different designs, with similar engines and manual gear boxes.

Best wishes to all in your vehicular decisions.

[ATH]

I've got a mate bought his Puma in 2007 when they first came out. Him and his cook have done many miles across the country and through the gulf country etc without problems.
He never reads forums, reckons they're full of whingers..... then his output shaft went in Balladonia not long ago.
He's certainly not a happy chappie now that such a major part can fail without warning.
I'm fully aware of the failing of the later Prados, but our 120 series was definitely a much more reliable beast than this thing. I don't know what to go for..... but this thing will definitely, maybe, might be for sale soon.... :p
AlanH.

PS. Worst part about getting shot of it is having to cook my own grub as the Cook will be most upset. :D

[Marty90]

They replaced the intercoler under warranty.

Hi Jan
you're referring to the thread by Tact. They would've replaced the intercooler.You'd only upgrade with one otherwise the EGT would hit the roof.

[Marty90]

I've got a mate bought his Puma in 2007 when they first came out. Him and his cook have done many miles across the country and through the gulf country etc without problems.
He never reads forums, reckons they're full of whingers..... then his output shaft went in Balladonia not long ago.
He's certainly not a happy chappie now that such a major part can fail without warning.
I'm fully aware of the failing of the later Prados, but our 120 series was definitely a much more reliable beast than this thing. I don't know what to go for..... but this thing will definitely, maybe, might be for sale soon.... :p
AlanH.

PS. Worst part about getting shot of it is having to cook my own grub as the Cook will be most upset. :D
Hi Alan,
Just out of curiosity,your mates Puma is eight years old.How many kilometres has it done.

[JamesB71]

James I'm right with you.

After owning a a d2 for 8 yrs and spending $70,000 to prevent it letting me down in the bush, I caved in .

I had enough of the endless necessary maintenance and costs involved in using a Land Rover as it was designed to be used.

6months ago I decided I'd had enough and purchased a Ford Ranger 2.2 single c/c 4wd manual , for half the price of a Defender.

It uses probably 20% less fuel , is 50% quieter , is easy and light to drive , room for my elbows etc etc.

It has only done one 6000km bush trip so far , but did it with aplomb.

I am genuinely happy to be happy to be out of the marque , knowing that I don't have some interminable maintenance issue to be resolved before attempting my next trip.

I just hope the turbo hose thing is only a Land Rover problem as it appears a few have had it.

James maybe one the members lauding Defenders here may purchase yours at a reasonable price to recover your losses or at least break even , after all as most have said in reply to you, "it's just a hose , fix it". They should be able to purchase your vehicle at a good price with total confidence , shouldn't they?

Great idea. Defender going cheap. Which stalwart Landy tragic wants it?

UPDATE:- The good news is that the latest problem isnt the head - its just the EGR cooler. They are replacing it.

Im still selling it. Anyone want a Deefer with a brand new set of turbo hoses and EGR valve?

[1nando]

Great idea. Defender going cheap. Which stalwart Landy tragic wants it?

UPDATE:- The good news is that the latest problem isnt the head - its just the EGR cooler. They are replacing it.

Im still selling it. Anyone want a Deefer with a brand new set of turbo hoses and EGR valve?

My mate wants to get rid ofhis cruiser if your interested in a possible swap. PM me if your interested and ill forward number

[JamesB71]

My mate wants to get rid ofhis cruiser if your interested in a possible swap. PM me if your interested and ill forward number

Thanks mate, but I am looking for something pretty new, or even brand new. Theres a good chance I will trade it in on a new one.

[1nando]

Thanks mate, but I am looking for something pretty new, or even brand new. Theres a good chance I will trade it in on a new one.

New defender or crusier?

[steane]

Great idea. Defender going cheap. Which stalwart Landy tragic wants it?

UPDATE:- The good news is that the latest problem isnt the head - its just the EGR cooler. They are replacing it.

Im still selling it. Anyone want a Deefer with a brand new set of turbo hoses and EGR valve?

Given it's a complete dog, I'm assuming that 'cheap' means 'very cheap';)

Would you take an ultra reliable 2012 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4, with 40k kms, tight hoses and no turbo as a straight swap?

[JamesB71]

New defender or crusier?

Are you serious?

I'm not sure what I will get yet, Ill go test driving this week, but it wont have a green oval on it.

[JamesB71]

Given it's a complete dog, I'm assuming that 'cheap' means 'very cheap';)

Would you take an ultra reliable 2012 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4, with 40k kms, tight hoses and no turbo as a straight swap?

I wouldn't be game to drive it from my place to Adelaide. :p

[1nando]

I can provide youtube links with a person in exactly the same situation as you for most brands.......One for a 76 series cruiser, a jeep, a colarado and more...

Either way good luck

[steane]

I wouldn't be game to drive it from my place to Adelaide. :p

I would.

Let's do a deal ;)

[LoveB]

I wouldnt mind james 110 lol

[Marty90]

What's an EGR cooler?:confused:

[1nando]

Its something that needs to be made redundant by blankibg and turning off the egr with a remap......

[Toxic_Avenger]

What's an EGR cooler?:confused:

Its right next to the headlight fluid reservoir, secured to the firewall with lightning bolts. Need to get a left-handed screwdriver on the other side of it to service.

[Babs]

Thanks mate, but I am looking for something pretty new, or even brand new. Theres a good chance I will trade it in on a new one.

None of my business but I thought you said you owed more than what it's worth.

I'm no financial adviser but I would be inclined to think you're going backwards. Your just going to bury yourself deeper in finance you're already minus equity why make it worse.

It will be cheaper to keep what you have or back trade, the problem is your rig will be better than anything you can back trade to.

I don't think you want a solution to your problems just someone to listen and tell you what you want to hear. (No offence intended).

Yes you should go test drive other vehicles which are more expensive because that makes them more reliable and you should hock yourself for more finance and throw the payout from your Deefer on top. That way your payments can go up and you can owe even more on a more expensive vehicle which will most definitely be more reliable.

Who needs spare income anyway you can always live on soup for the next 7years. Ha ha ha

James I don't know your financial situation and don't really want to know either but you get the point I'm trying to make. Don't haste your decision go get it checked out by an independent specialist. Then come back on here and tell us what eventuates.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[PAT303]

James I'm right with you.

After owning a a d2 for 8 yrs and spending $70,000 to prevent it letting me down in the bush, I caved in .

I had enough of the endless necessary maintenance and costs involved in using a Land Rover as it was designed to be used.

6months ago I decided I'd had enough and purchased a Ford Ranger 2.2 single c/c 4wd manual , for half the price of a Defender.

It uses probably 20% less fuel , is 50% quieter , is easy and light to drive , room for my elbows etc etc.

It has only done one 6000km bush trip so far , but did it with aplomb.

I am genuinely happy to be happy to be out of the marque , knowing that I don't have some interminable maintenance issue to be resolved before attempting my next trip.

I just hope the turbo hose thing is only a Land Rover problem as it appears a few have had it.

James maybe one the members lauding Defenders here may purchase yours at a reasonable price to recover your losses or at least break even , after all as most have said in reply to you, "it's just a hose , fix it". They should be able to purchase your vehicle at a good price with total confidence , shouldn't they?
I have to ask,how do you spend $70,000 on a D2?. Pat

[PAT303]

Great idea. Defender going cheap. Which stalwart Landy tragic wants it?

UPDATE:- The good news is that the latest problem isnt the head - its just the EGR cooler. They are replacing it.

Im still selling it. Anyone want a Deefer with a brand new set of turbo hoses and EGR valve?

Dunno mate,how can you have so many problems?. Pat

[ramblingboy42]

I have to ask,how do you spend $70,000 on a D2?. Pat

eg/ 3 harmonic balancers , 3 front drive shafts , 2 fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators, indicator switch, 3 amigos. lot lots more over 8 yrs and 200,000+km

[Marty90]

Its something that needs to be made redundant by blankibg and turning off the egr with a remap......

Done that ,curtesy of DPL:thumbs:but what's an EGR cooler?

[Marty90]

Its right next to the headlight fluid reservoir, secured to the firewall with lightning bolts. Need to get a left-handed screwdriver on the other side of it to service.

Sorry for the late reply,but just got back from getting a left handed screwdriver from Bunnings(useless salesman/boy didn't know where they had em stored).So I'm assuming the lightning bolts are the ones that spark when you touch them with said screwdriver,but what does the smoke mean.:oops2:

[4wheeler]

James I'm right with you.

After owning a a d2 for 8 yrs and spending $70,000 to prevent it letting me down in the bush, I caved in .

I had enough of the endless necessary maintenance and costs involved in using a Land Rover as it was designed to be used.

6months ago I decided I'd had enough and purchased a Ford Ranger 2.2 single c/c 4wd manual , for half the price of a Defender.

It uses probably 20% less fuel , is 50% quieter , is easy and light to drive , room for my elbows etc etc.

It has only done one 6000km bush trip so far , but did it with aplomb.

I am genuinely happy to be happy to be out of the marque , knowing that I don't have some interminable maintenance issue to be resolved before attempting my next trip.

I just hope the turbo hose thing is only a Land Rover problem as it appears a few have had it.

James maybe one the members lauding Defenders here may purchase yours at a reasonable price to recover your losses or at least break even , after all as most have said in reply to you, "it's just a hose , fix it". They should be able to purchase your vehicle at a good price with total confidence , shouldn't they?

Not trying to be smart here but the bad news is that the Ranger 2.2l engine and 6 speed manual gearbox is basically the same as in the current Defender, Transit etc. Hence given it is the same family of Ford engine (Puma) it will possibly have the same problems such as EGR cooler leak, MAP and MAF sensor, rear main seal leaks and other problems related to the Ford engine in the future. Check Transit, Mazda and Ford forums and you will see I'm not wrong. Quite a few 3.2 engines fried due to coolant hoses rubbing on chassis and shot intercoolers due to faulty manufacture. Beginning to sound familiar?

I had a 2012 BT 50 3.2 4x4. Took it to the Victoria high country last year on the weekend of the track closures. Rivers not high but interesting. After the trip I replaced front cross member, replaced front lower suspension arm, had to have the lower suspension arm mount professionally straightened as it was impacted by rocks on crossings a Defender would eat for breakfast. Cruise control would cut out dangerously loosing power. Standard, they are not really up to more serious 4 wheel driving without spending extra money on a lift, tyres etc. On that trip I came across two relatively new Landcruiser V8's. One stranded with blown diff and one with blown low range transfer.

BT 50 sold and now back in a useless, unreliable, loud, rough, uncomfortable Defender.

I also have a 2011 2.4 Transit which has just tripped 160,000 km and engine has been basically reliable apart from odd reduced power at times which involves switching off and restarting the car. So there is good and bad in every thing these days. My 2007 2.4 Defender was reliable. :)

[MrLandy]

Its right next to the headlight fluid reservoir, secured to the firewall with lightning bolts. Need to get a left-handed screwdriver on the other side of it to service.

😀 And it's the most important component in the 100% reliable new type of mechanical conveyance, coming in 2018, it never breaks down and it's code named the defender unicorn.

[Toxic_Avenger]

EGR cooler would still be a ***** of a thing to work on. Right up the back of the motor and down low too...

EGR cooler helps to dampen spikes in the EGR gases as they are introduced back into the engine as a pollution control measure. Linked with the coolant system.

[PAT303]

eg/ 3 harmonic balancers , 3 front drive shafts , 2 fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators, indicator switch, 3 amigos. lot lots more over 8 yrs and 200,000+km

Harmonic balancers are $207 each,drive shafts are $386,fuel pumps are $100 for aftermarket,$275 genuine,indicator switch $116,not meaning to be smart but your along way from 70K and why did you change the same part 3 times twice?. Pat

[jr1983]

I get it. Buying and fixing an old deefer is one thing and when you buy an old car, you anticipate it having issues.

But with a new car (and not exactly a 19k Kia) you expect some quality and service. The sad part for LR and you is that if they'd shown a bit of grace and extended the warranty, you'd probably be happy to overlook what is clearly some shoddy quality.

Having severe doubts about a relatively young car just outside of warranty is a very unenviable situation.

Good luck with whatever comes next!

JR

[cafe latte]

Harmonic balancers are $207 each,drive shafts are $386,fuel pumps are $100 for aftermarket,$275 genuine,indicator switch $116,not meaning to be smart but your along way from 70K and why did you change the same part 3 times twice?. Pat

I agree it does not sound remotely possible and it still would not get to 70k. My friend had a D2 which he bought new, and the fuel pump failed twice right at the start when it was still under warranty. He lived around 10km down a dirt track and he also needs to cross a river and the last bit the council wanted nothing to do with as it was just his drive but it was very long as his block is 45 acres and he built next to the river (same river he crosses on the way in) which is a fair way. Visiting him always involved locking in hubs ( my old Toyota) and engaging low ratio, in the wet it was a challenge to get to the house at all! He recently gave the old D2 to one of the kids as he and his wife have moved as he is in his 80's and the farm was getting too much for them. The D2 has over 280km on the clock he told me apart the fuel pump issue the only other problems where the fan blades hit the rad when he crossed the river when the river was high so he needed a new fan and a new rad (I guess he means aircon rad). The only other repair he had done was the transfer as his missus forgot to lock the central diff going up to the house in the wet and BANG. He tells me that was it apart oil changes, not bad for a car that got abused every day just to get in and out of the house! The transfer is not the fault of the car or LR it was driver error as was the fan problem crossing the river to get home he told me the water was over the bonnet so again drivers fault. So in reality the car just needed a couple of fuel pumps. Even better really as once I went to help him as as the car was having trouble starting. Ted is not the best at looking after cars, it took me a while to work out what was wrong as everything looked fine then I decided to have a look at the air filter :eek: . It was so blocked the engine could not breath. I asked when he last changed or even checked it, he could not remember. So this car was not looked after at all is my point so I cant believe someone had to spend 70k on one to keep one on the road.
Re the OP's Defender I wonder if his Toyota owning mates are half the problem? If his issue is basically a turbo hose which is such an easy fix and a good LP specialist could check the Defender over to ensure reliability from now on. Putting more money into something else that WILL have issues too seems nuts to me. Also it is worth noting that other brand 4x4's will be worth very little in a few years, but the Land Rover will hold its value. My friend just sold his 8 year old mint condition ute for 12 grand it cost him 44k new, how much is a mint 8 year old Defender worth??
Food for though
Chris
Edit, another friend has a Ford Ranger, gearbox jumps out of gear after only 100,000km, apparently a common issue and recently the timing belt ate itself even though it was changed at the correct service interval.

[jackdef90]

So with all this talk, Is the 2.4 better than the 2.2.
In my opinion Its slightly larger which considering it supposedly has the same power output would make it a little less stressed out.

I may have just opened up a can of worms.
MOOHAHAHA:twisted:

[PAT303]

I get it. Buying and fixing an old deefer is one thing and when you buy an old car, you anticipate it having issues.

But with a new car (and not exactly a 19k Kia) you expect some quality and service. The sad part for LR and you is that if they'd shown a bit of grace and extended the warranty, you'd probably be happy to overlook what is clearly some shoddy quality.

Having severe doubts about a relatively young car just outside of warranty is a very unenviable situation.

Good luck with whatever comes next!

JR
Lets put this into perspective,many members on here have had no problems with their LR's,many members have taken stock LR's all over Oz without problems,when you look what owners of other makes have to do,paying $3,000 for suspension/GVM upgrades on a sparkling new vehicle just so it will do what the manufacturer says it will do makes spending $120 on axle flanges seem a bit tame don't you think?. Pat

[Ranga]

Another example being my mate's father's new Prado, which struggled towing a camper up the Bloomfield Track. It went in to limp mode, due to transmission overheating. End result was leaving the camper behind, driving back to Mossman, and fitting bigger/better (?) cooler, all at his own expense. As far as I'm concerned, all the advertising had lead me to believe that a stock Prado should be able to do this.

[Shoogs]

I drive a Prado or 200 all day at work, and every other variant of Toyota and its a nice car, I go home and I have a 20 year old Defender, been all over Southern and Eastern Africa and recently the CSR, planning South America and beyond in 2017, yes it costs me more money than I remember but I don't count it, I buy a car with my heart not my head, we have never been in danger and more often than not the vehicle invites conversation and assistance though never really needed.


More importantly it puts a smile on my face... most times...


I feel for people who have a multitude of issues, never nice, do I ponder why I drive a Defender..? Nope, I just do, cause I like it.


Don't like it sell it, do like it, keep it, easy... liking the thread but.


cheers


Tim

[cafe latte]

I drive a Prado or 200 all day at work, and every other variant of Toyota and its a nice car, I go home and I have a 20 year old Defender, been all over Southern and Eastern Africa and recently the CSR, planning South America and beyond in 2017, yes it costs me more money than I remember but I don't count it, I buy a car with my heart not my head, we have never been in danger and more often than not the vehicle invites conversation and assistance though never really needed.


More importantly it puts a smile on my face... most times...


I feel for people who have a multitude of issues, never nice, do I ponder why I drive a Defender..? Nope, I just do, cause I like it.


Don't like it sell it, do like it, keep it, easy... liking the thread but.


cheers


Tim
Defenders do make conversations for sure, most positive. Interesting this morning when I replied to this thread I was racking my brains trying to remember the make of ute my friend sold recently to get his new ute, which I realized I did not know what brand that was either. It is gold coloured and it needs a much better suspension as it sags big time with his caravan on and it looks quite nice but it is one of the many all the same different brand same mold. I am sure if you ask all his friends what car he drives half or more wont know, ask my friends what I drive they will all get it right, nobody mistakes a Defender :D
Chris

[MrLandy]

True perfection seems imperfect,
yet it is perfectly itself.
True fullness seems empty,
yet it is fully present.

True straightness seems crooked.
True wisdom seems foolish.
True art seems artless.

The Master allows things to happen.
She shapes events as they come.
She steps out of the way
and lets the Tao speak for itself.




Lao Tzu (c.604 - 531 B.C.)

[ramblingboy42]

Harmonic balancers are $207 each,drive shafts are $386,fuel pumps are $100 for aftermarket,$275 genuine,indicator switch $116,not meaning to be smart but your along way from 70K and why did you change the same part 3 times twice?. Pat

no, you're not meaning to be smart...bull****!

just go into the pinnacles , technical chatter and read about the heartache and woes that D2 owners have had over the last 15 years.

I don't know where you get your parts prices from but I've never found one item that you have rebuked at anywhere the price you have suggested.

D2's have been the bread and butter of companies like British Off Road for years.

Why is there such a huge aftermarket business surrounding D2's? It's because they are basically heaps of **** with particularly good on and offroad manners and once you've turned your D2 into a mobile aftermarkets parts bin it is generally reliably ok.

[DiscoMick]

Sorry to hear of the OP's problems, I'd be very unhappy. I'm the 2nd owner of our Defender and according to the service record all its needed is a clutch and the original battery recently died. Turbo hoses seem fine. Feel fortunate.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[ramblingboy42]

I was never unhappy driving the D2.

In a previous thread I exposed all my costs and got replies like ..."oh that's nothing, $9k/year's not to be unexpected" and many similar responses.

it did 12 or 13 central Australian Desert trips of over 6000km each time and it was after each trip something had to be repaired/replaced.....I mean it's only $173/wk to upkeep...thats not too bad , is it? Is it?

[4wheeler]

Ramblingboy42,
It was my post and not Pat's that began with "not meaning to be smart", and I put that there because as can be seen here people take offence if people have differing opinions or experience. If you took offence from my opening words of the post then I apologize.

I only commented on the Ford Puma engine and problems associated with it. Obviously some might have problems, some won't, just like Defenders or anything really. Having owned the vehicles I feel I can comment on that fairly. The Ranger is a great vehicle and I was not having a go at it . But in my opinion the Defender is not necessarily a bad vehicle. Some can accept them for what they are and others not. My current Defender is in no way perfect and I suspect it is developing the odd niggle which I will point out next service. I have no direct experience of D2's so made no comment in my post related to this. If a D2 gave you major grief, or a Defender of whatever I can sympathize. My First 4x4 was a new Lada Niva. Look up the word misery in the dictionary and you will find a picture of a Niva!.

So if someone has lost confidence in a vehicle, fair enough. They should get something that they are happy with. They are all too expensive these days to spend time and money worrying about them if your not confident in the reliability.

[cafe latte]

Sorry to hear of the OP's problems, I'd be very unhappy. I'm the 2nd owner of our Defender and according to the service record all its needed is a clutch and the original battery recently died. Turbo hoses seem fine. Feel fortunate.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

Clutch can be driver error of the previous owner, if he was anything link the father in law the clutch did not have a chance :D
Chris

[cafe latte]

I was never unhappy driving the D2.

In a previous thread I exposed all my costs and got replies like ..."oh that's nothing, $9k/year's not to be unexpected" and many similar responses.

it did 12 or 13 central Australian Desert trips of over 6000km each time and it was after each trip something had to be repaired/replaced.....I mean it's only $173/wk to upkeep...thats not too bad , is it? Is it?

You must have been very hard on your D2 if your numbers are correct as I said I have seen one seriously abused with almost no issues.
Chris

[cafe latte]

no, you're not meaning to be smart...bull****!

just go into the pinnacles , technical chatter and read about the heartache and woes that D2 owners have had over the last 15 years.

I don't know where you get your parts prices from but I've never found one item that you have rebuked at anywhere the price you have suggested.

D2's have been the bread and butter of companies like British Off Road for years.

Why is there such a huge aftermarket business surrounding D2's? It's because they are basically heaps of **** with particularly good on and offroad manners and once you've turned your D2 into a mobile aftermarkets parts bin it is generally reliably ok.

My friends is stock standard and it managed a VERY hard life with no issues. Saying that my friend learnt to drive in the army and he is an excellent driver, maybe your issues were driving technique, just a thought..
Chris

[Disco-tastic]

Why is there such a huge aftermarket business surrounding D2's? It's because they are basically heaps of **** ...

Have you seen how big the aftermarket business is for other makes?

James, i too am sad to hear of your experience. I have had one new (though much cheaper) car, and after two services at the dealer i took it to and indie, as i felt way more comfortable with them looking after it, and i knew i wasnt going to get screwed around.

If i was you i would have a reputable independent land rover specialist look at your defender and give them a go at fixing your problems, especially if you owe more than the car is worth. Many people have commented that they have had those issues fixed at such places with no more problems. If they cant fix it, then sell and buy a different car as you plan to. But if they do fix it, then you've saved yourself a lot of money and can start actually enjoying your defender.

But then, I'm not you and i have not been through what you've been through and i have little understanding of how you're feeling. You do what you need to do to stay sane, and i hope it all works out for you and your next ride is a pearler :)

Cheers

Dan

[PAT303]

Another example being my mate's father's new Prado, which struggled towing a camper up the Bloomfield Track. It went in to limp mode, due to transmission overheating. End result was leaving the camper behind, driving back to Mossman, and fitting bigger/better (?) cooler, all at his own expense. As far as I'm concerned, all the advertising had lead me to believe that a stock Prado should be able to do this.

Bigger coolers on Toyota's is a band aid,the tranny overheats because the T/C doesn't lock up unless your doing 100 in 6th,again,like suspension,it's another aftermarket cost,a very exxy one at that. Pat

[PAT303]

no, you're not meaning to be smart...bull****!

just go into the pinnacles , technical chatter and read about the heartache and woes that D2 owners have had over the last 15 years.

I don't know where you get your parts prices from but I've never found one item that you have rebuked at anywhere the price you have suggested.

D2's have been the bread and butter of companies like British Off Road for years.

Why is there such a huge aftermarket business surrounding D2's? It's because they are basically heaps of **** with particularly good on and offroad manners and once you've turned your D2 into a mobile aftermarkets parts bin it is generally reliably ok.

Those prices are from the same company I've being buying parts from for years and are current,I used them last week to buy axle flanges funny enough for a mates ex-mil Td5 defender :angel:.The reason D2's aren't as reliable is simply because they had all the stuff a 2015 Toyota has now,but 15 years ago and new technology needs time to mature.You might like to talk to some late '00 era Toyota owners about ABS modulator faults,sensor faults,poor earths,dash warning lights,crank angle sensors etc,you know,when their vehicles caught up to the developed world. Pat

[PAT303]

I was never unhappy driving the D2.

In a previous thread I exposed all my costs and got replies like ..."oh that's nothing, $9k/year's not to be unexpected" and many similar responses.

it did 12 or 13 central Australian Desert trips of over 6000km each time and it was after each trip something had to be repaired/replaced.....I mean it's only $173/wk to upkeep...thats not too bad , is it? Is it?

How many Toyota/itsamitsy/Datsuns would do 12-13 central Australian Desert trips without something needing repairing/replaced?. Pat

[Robmacca]

Bigger coolers on Toyota's is a band aid,the tranny overheats because the T/C doesn't lock up unless your doing 100 in 6th,again,like suspension,it's another aftermarket cost,a very exxy one at that. Pat

or u could simply drive it like a manual and drop it in a lower gear for the steep hills, etc instead of just letting the Auto change for u....

[Robmacca]

How many Toyota/itsamitsy/Datsuns would do 12-13 central Australian Desert trips without something needing repairing/replaced?. Pat

Geez Pat.... From all your posts, u seem very anti Toyota / Nissan ,etc

With the shear numbers of Toyota's sold, as u know, u are always going to get some failures, when compared to the numbers sold, the % would be very small....

Just look at JEEP.... from what I read on the web in recent times, Jeep is coping a fogging for their lack of reliability and lack of customer service..... They might even surpass LR in the bad rap that they had from times gone past... lol

[DiscoMick]

Clutch can be driver error of the previous owner, if he was anything link the father in law the clutch did not have a chance :D
Chris

Yes, you could be right, but I don't know the original owner. All I know is he fitted some quality accessories and had it serviced every 10,000 kms.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[DiscoMick]

Bigger coolers on Toyota's is a band aid,the tranny overheats because the T/C doesn't lock up unless your doing 100 in 6th,again,like suspension,it's another aftermarket cost,a very exxy one at that. Pat

A mechanic once told me that Toyota fits the minimum size radiator that can cope when new, so as the radiator loses some efficiency over time it slowly becomes inadequate. May not be the only ones of course.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[ozscott]

no, you're not meaning to be smart...bull****!

just go into the pinnacles , technical chatter and read about the heartache and woes that D2 owners have had over the last 15 years.

I don't know where you get your parts prices from but I've never found one item that you have rebuked at anywhere the price you have suggested.

D2's have been the bread and butter of companies like British Off Road for years.

Why is there such a huge aftermarket business surrounding D2's? It's because they are basically heaps of **** with particularly good on and offroad manners and once you've turned your D2 into a mobile aftermarkets parts bin it is generally reliably ok.
What a load of bollocks. I have flogged mine hard over 13 years. Love it. I overheated the v8 through my own fault. I cross threaded the header tank cap and it blew ALL the fluid out and cooked. The 4.6 was a cheap upgrade to fix that. 5th got noisy in the manual and a kit fixed that. I have done clutch master and slave. I have done brake master. One alternator and one radiator. Front prop shaft and CV's. Fixed the ABS modulator very cheaply. One wheel sensor. Rear donut and spiggot for driveshaft. 280,000 on the original motor despite the overheat. Eventually the head gasket could take no more. 290,000k vehicle with a lot of off road, very short trips as the daily driver, towing a 2 ,000kg boat and at times heavier weights. All of the above was very cheap given the duties AND that it was $20k less than the same specced 100 series Land Cruiser when i bought it. And its given me enormous pleasure. I have a D1 too and yes it has been less of a spend for similiar miles but i prefer the d2.

Cheers

[PAT303]

Geez Pat.... From all your posts, u seem very anti Toyota / Nissan ,etc

With the shear numbers of Toyota's sold, as u know, u are always going to get some failures, when compared to the numbers sold, the % would be very small....

Just look at JEEP.... from what I read on the web in recent times, Jeep is coping a fogging for their lack of reliability and lack of customer service..... They might even surpass LR in the bad rap that they had from times gone past... lol

I've had more Toyota/Nissan vehicles than Land Rovers,I was a Toyota mechanic for a time. Pat

[strangy]

Not good the OP is having issues.
On the flip side of the thread conversation though...I am very glad the majority of mechanics all over Australia are staying in business due to the existence of a small market share of Land Rover products. So too for the aftermarket companies offering suspension and driveline upgrades like ARB etc. if not for the Land Rover all of these profitable businesses would be broke without regular work from any other manufactures product.
The expertise and capability of the majority of mechanics on Land Rover products must be vast and common too for the same reasons.

Yawn think I'll have cuppa and head to bed.

[PAT303]

[QUOTE=Robmacca;2469294]

or u could simply drive it like a manual and drop it in a lower gear for the steep hills, etc instead of just letting the Auto change for u....[/Q
Kinda defeats the purpose of buying an auto don't you think?. Pat

[PAT303]

A mechanic once told me that Toyota fits the minimum size radiator that can cope when new, so as the radiator loses some efficiency over time it slowly becomes inadequate. May not be the only ones of course.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

The series model Toyota's have the same size rad as a defender,fitting a desert cooler twin pass rad with water wetter and completely filling the fan hub with fluid essentially making it solid is a common overheating fix from the 2H on. Pat

[PAT303]

Not good the OP is having issues.
On the flip side of the thread conversation though...I am very glad the majority of mechanics all over Australia are staying in business due to the existence of a small market share of Land Rover products. So too for the aftermarket companies offering suspension and driveline upgrades like ARB etc. if not for the Land Rover all of these profitable businesses would be broke without regular work from any other manufactures product.
The expertise and capability of the majority of mechanics on Land Rover products must be vast and common too for the same reasons.

Yawn think I'll have cuppa and head to bed.

I'm hearing you,Land Rovers are crap,everything else is better,blah blah. Pat

[Wicks89]

This thread is interesting.

Back to the OP, i think if you dont like driving a car you should move it on, lifes too short to deal with something that drives you up the wall. Obviously its got a few issues but James if you like driving it and dont get it checked by a specialist youre doing yourself a disservice.

On the point some folks are making about a vehicle being reliable out of the box...

I get bored often at work and read 4wd action (THE HORROR) and even though they bash Land Rovers for reliability like all good toyota owners, you might be surprised at what they spruik as required for touring and tough wheeling.

Just food for thought.

[Robmacca]

[QUOTE=Robmacca;2469294]

or u could simply drive it like a manual and drop it in a lower gear for the steep hills, etc instead of just letting the Auto change for u....[/Q
Kinda defeats the purpose of buying an auto don't you think?. Pat
No not really.....
I was always told when towing in an auto and going up hills, don't wait for the auto to change, do it your self as this will prolong the life of the auto....

But then again, I could have been told porkies too....... But I'm happy to drive mine like a manual in those circumstances to prolong the life of it :-)

[steane]

This thread is interesting.

Back to the OP, i think if you dont like driving a car you should move it on, lifes too short to deal with something that drives you up the wall. Obviously its got a few issues but James if you like driving it and dont get it checked by a specialist youre doing yourself a disservice.

On the point some folks are making about a vehicle being reliable out of the box...

I get bored often at work and read 4wd action (THE HORROR) and even though they bash Land Rovers for reliability like all good toyota owners, you might be surprised at what they spruik as required for touring and tough wheeling.

Just food for thought.

OMG! You read 4WD Action :p

That's almost as bad as ex Landy owners hanging around AULRO when they should be moving over to their new vehicle's forum and praising it until it lets them down and they buy a replacement.

We need to find an expert that can help these ghosts move towards the light. I'm prepared to donate $100 to the cause.;)

[Blade74]

OMG! You read 4WD Action :p That's almost as bad as ex Landy owners hanging around AULRO when they should be moving over to their new vehicle's forum and praising it until it lets them down and they buy a replacement. We need to find an expert that can help these ghosts move towards the light. I'm prepared to donate $100 to the cause.;)
My Defender just sold today.
A very sad day indeed.
Although I do love Land Rovers and have moved into a 2010 TDV8 Vogue luxury.
That's how much faith I have in their brand and product.
I previously owned a D4.
My defender was rock solid reliable and put a smile on my face constantly.
The disco 4 was reliable in the 100000kms I did.
The vogue had been awesome so far.
I expect to have to fix a few random things but have done a lot of research on forums before purchase to understand what could go wrong and what sort of money it costs to fix.
Now it's time to go out and drive it and enjoy.

[Pickles2]

My Defender just sold today.
A very sad day indeed.
Although I do love Land Rovers and have moved into a 2010 TDV8 Vogue luxury.
That's how much faith I have in their brand and product.
I previously owned a D4.
My defender was rock solid reliable and put a smile on my face constantly.
The disco 4 was reliable in the 100000kms I did.
The vogue had been awesome so far.
I expect to have to fix a few random things but have done a lot of research on forums before purchase to understand what could go wrong and what sort of money it costs to fix.
Now it's time to go out and drive it and enjoy.
"TDV8"...Sounds good to me!!
Enjoy, Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

OMG! You read 4WD Action :p

That's almost as bad as ex Landy owners hanging around AULRO when they should be moving over to their new vehicle's forum and praising it until it lets them down and they buy a replacement.

We need to find an expert that can help these ghosts move towards the light. I'm prepared to donate $100 to the cause.;)

ummm Steane.....I have never seen a rule for Aulro members saying they have to own a Land Rover to participate in this forum.

Who , besides you , says they SHOULD be be moving over to their new vehicles forum?

Probably 90% of my life has been in Land Rovers , both on the land and military. I think I am entitled to choose to use this forum.

I'm not sure why I'm really bothering explaining myself to a 500 poster.

[steane]

ummm Steane.....I have never seen a rule for Aulro members saying they have to own a Land Rover to participate in this forum.

Who , besides you , says they SHOULD be be moving over to their new vehicles forum?

Probably 90% of my life has been in Land Rovers , both on the land and military. I think I am entitled to choose to use this forum.

I'm not sure why I'm really bothering explaining myself to a 500 poster.

Good lord, neither am I :o

I try to avoid rambling as it increases my post count without adding value :p

[tact]

Good lord, neither am I :o

I try to avoid rambling as it increases my post count without adding value :p

Made my day. And made me laugh out LOUD, in the office, pre-caffeinated.

I gotta go get my morning coffee now. Thanks Steane!

[tact]

I try to avoid rambling as it increases my post count without adding value :p

Darnnit! The numbers tell a story - sadly it's that I ramble too much! :twisted:
................Posts...Thanked....%
steane........543.......434......79.9
tact............611.......470......76.9

You definitely represent the quality over quantity side well, steane. :angel:

[spudboy]

Not sure you should be equating someone's quality of comment by their post count....

[Mick_Marsh]

Not sure you should be equating someone's quality of comment by their post count....
What! Do you post volumes of **** too?

(Yet another one added to my post count.)

[spudboy]

haha - all the time :D

[ramblingboy42]

It looks like some sort of mutual self righteousness going on there Spudboy....it's ok , if they keep patting each other on the back their thread count will soon be up near yours.

[PAT303]

What do you drive now?. Pat

[steane]

It looks like some sort of mutual self righteousness going on there Spudboy....it's ok , if they keep patting each other on the back their thread count will soon be up near yours.

I bet his post count makes you jealous rambler:o. He could drop a line on you like "I don't know why I'd bother responding to a 5000 poster".:cool:

[LandyAndy]

People.
Please dont go personal,it will only end in tears.
Everyone are welcome at AULRO as long as they are playing by the rules.
Have a Xmas drink and let it be.
Andrew

[tact]

I bet his post count makes you jealous rambler:o. He could drop a line on you like "I don't know why I'd bother responding to a 5000 poster".:cool:

Nahhhh... I reckon the 5 figure posters have reached a yoda/zen state and realize post count isn't the measure of a member.

Oh dear I am rambling again.

[incisor]

oh joy

another stars thread in disguise!

:wasntme:


It's Christmas people!

be nice to each other!

[Babs]

Ha ha ha this is too funny.

This thread has gone way off topic, ha ha ha.

Remember James, he's the guy who started the thread and we haven't heard boo out of him for quite a few posts now.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[MrLandy]

Ha ha ha this is too funny.

This thread has gone way off topic, ha ha ha.

Remember James, he's the guy who started the thread and we haven't heard boo out of him for quite a few posts now.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

It's getting embarrassing actually. Perhaps he's decided there is more reason to dump his Land Rover.

Take it to an Indy James. If that doesn't fix it claim your consumer right to return faulty goods (even if it's outside warranty). Then move on.
Best wishes to you.

Cheers

[1nando]

The lemon laws give you that right James. PM me if you need more info

[ozscott]

The lemon laws give you that right James. PM me if you need more info
What Lemon laws...we don't yet have any. We have consumer protection but so called Lemon Laws like the US has is still being considered.

See here 1nando http://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-accountability/queensland-laws-and-regulations/fair-trading-services-programs-and-resources/consultation-regulatory-reform/lemon-laws/


Cheers

[cafe latte]

What Lemon laws...we don't yet have any. We have consumer protection but so called Lemon Laws like the US has is still being considered.

See here 1nando Lemon laws | Your rights, crime and the law | Queensland Government (http://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-accountability/queensland-laws-and-regulations/fair-trading-services-programs-and-resources/consultation-regulatory-reform/lemon-laws/)


Cheers

Even if we did I dont think a turbo hose blowing a few times would count.
Chris

[spudboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr6IYtWbweY

[1nando]

On the 1st of January 2011 ACL (Australian Consumer Law) passed new legislation to help protect those that buy a new vehicle which is deemed to be a lemon.
Although not as tough as the USA lemon laws (where you can literally rock up and demand a refund) they are very useful to those in a position similar to what James is currently experiencing. A manufacturer is given a fair opportunity to fix a probelm , if the probelm is not fixed after multiple atempts you can demand a refund or replacement vehicle. Before everyone here starts talking s@#$t please read the ACL.

As a example the law is no different to buying a blender which is deamed to be faulty. You are entitled to a replacement or refund.

Please read and learn what your rights are as a consumer when purchasing a new vehicle or anything for that matter.

[Mick_Marsh]

https://www.accc.gov.au/publications/motor-vehicle-sales-repairs-an-industry-guide-to-the-australian-consumer-law


Consumer guarantees on motor vehicles
Under the ACL, there are nine consumer guarantees
that apply to new and used motor vehicles sold to a
consumer:
1. Suppliers and manufacturers guarantee that
motor vehicles are of acceptable quality
2. A supplier guarantees that motor vehicles
will be reasonably fit for any purpose the
consumer or supplier has specified
3. Suppliers and manufacturers guarantee that their
description of motor vehicles (for example, in a
catalogue or television commercial) is accurate
4. A supplier guarantees that motor vehicles will
match any sample or demonstration model
5. Suppliers and manufacturers guarantee that
motor vehicles will satisfy any extra promises –
or 'express warranties' – made about them
6. A supplier guarantees they have the right to
sell the motor vehicle (clear title), unless they
alerted the consumer before the sale that
they had ‘limited title’. Note that licensing
laws in some states or territories may require
motor car traders to guarantee clear title
7. A supplier guarantees ‘undisturbed possession’
or that no one will try to repossess or take
back motor vehicles, or prevent the consumer
using them, except in certain circumstances
8. A supplier guarantees that motor vehicles are
free of any hidden securities or charges and will
remain so, except in certain circumstances
9. Manufacturers or importers guarantee
they will take reasonable steps to make
spare parts and repair facilities available
for a reasonable time after purchase.

[1nando]

https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/lemon-car-what-you-can-do-under-australian-consumer-law/

Any major issue that can not be sorted by the manufacturer entitles you to a replacment or refund.

[1nando]

A major fault is deemed as anything that will stop the vehicle from doing what its intended purpose is.

I would argue that a defender being a offraod 4wd vehicle that the turbo and its hoses constantly failing make it unfit, not safe and potentially dangerous. If im in a remote area and the vehicle becomes undrivable due to turbo issues i could potentially be putting myself and anyone travelling with me in danger.

The defenders intended purpose is to "go above and beyond" in the "most capable" 4wd (LR words).....

Wont go anywhere if it constantly has turbo issues.

[Marty90]

https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/lemon-car-what-you-can-do-under-australian-consumer-law/

Any major issue that can not be sorted by the manufacturer entitles you to a replacment or refund.

Land Rover are pretty good at coming to the party on warranties.Everything that fails under warranty has (in my experience and according to countless threads,here) been replaced/repaired without question.Nobody gets questioned over their modifications. A member on AULRO went to great expense to fit portals on his Defender then got his clutch and transfer case replaced under warranty.I can't imagine any issue that major that it can't be fixed. Although,I seem to recall somebody having door alignment problems,they deemed the body was out of alignment and offered the owner the choice of repairs or a new vehicle,owner took a new vehicle.This is the only forum I read,so they'll be here somewhere.I would be very surprised if any other manufacturer looks after their customers as well as Land Rover regarding warranty.

[ozscott]

As i noted above you are referring the uniform consumer protection laws (that do away with having to rely on Sales of Goods Act and TPA legislation)...but they are NOT lemon laws. Lemon Laws are for vehicles as a separate item and offering a further layer of protection. .. and are being considered currently.

What you are correct about is that people should know their rights. I treat a manufacturer's warranty as a guide only. If i had a vehicle with a major engine fault at say 80k and 4 years i would be paying some cash into the trust account of a good solicitor (if polite persuasion failed first) and bringing proceedings if it was clearly a manufacturing or design fault.

...then again i make my living from litigation...but i do hate seeing big manufacturers pushing people around who have laid down hard earned coin.

Cheers

[1nando]

Although these laws are not specifically called "lemon laws", they are consumer laws which are there to protect consumers from purchasing a potential "lemon". As mentioned before they are not as stringent as US laws but they are lemon laws regardless. The consumer law act previous to 2011 did not entitled you to a refund or replacement vehicle if you purchased a "lemon". These do!!!

When i was dealing with LR Australia i referenced these to get my rear diff sorted. LR had 2 failed atempts at replacing the rear diff before i mentioned these. Lets just say the diff i have now is drama free.....

[ozscott]

Look they are different to Lemon Laws. Sorry. There were fitness for purpose clauses implied into the previous Sale of Goods Act in Qld and their other state equivalents. There were also consumer laws built into the TPA. Mate if you go to and read the link i posted up (Qld Government site) you will see what i am saying. Cheers

[ozscott]

Save you clicking the link this is from the Qld Government web site.

"Australia does not currently have lemon laws?a law that aims to protect new car buyers by spelling out when a car manufacturer or supplier must repair, replace or refund a consumer's car.

The rights of new car buyers are currently protected by the*Australian Consumer Law(ACL).

Some countries do have lemon laws. Each is different, but the laws generally set limits on the number of:

faults a new car can sufferunsuccessful repair attempts on the same problemdays a new car can be off the road for repairs.

Where these limits are exceeded, the lemon law requires the manufacturer or supplier to give the consumer a replacement or refund.

A review of the ACL will begin this year. One aspect of the review will be to consider if the ACL should include lemon laws for new cars.

To help, we asked Queenslanders to tell us about their experience with a lemon car.*This consultation closed on 25 September 2015. We will be using the feedback to inform a submission to the ACL review.

More information will be added to this page as developments occur."

[slug_burner]

James,

Get rid of your car, blowing turbo hoses is a simple fix and if LR can't manage that then you should be in a Prado or other of your preference.

Who ever picks up your car second hand will hopefully have the ability to use some after market hose clamps, or we will get some more input to this thread on how bad LRs are.

Remember it is not in the interest of an LR dealer to fix a problem that LR will continue to pay to get fixed. If the dealer goes out on a lmb and try's to fix your problem with after market parts they are on their own. Fixing your problem produces a happy customer but dries up the income source. The beauty of buying new cars!

[PAT303]

Although these laws are not specifically called "lemon laws", they are consumer laws which are there to protect consumers from purchasing a potential "lemon". As mentioned before they are not as stringent as US laws but they are lemon laws regardless. The consumer law act previous to 2011 did not entitled you to a refund or replacement vehicle if you purchased a "lemon". These do!!!

When i was dealing with LR Australia i referenced these to get my rear diff sorted. LR had 2 failed atempts at replacing the rear diff before i mentioned these. Lets just say the diff i have now is drama free.....

The sad thing about your diffs is like most people it wasn't all down to the diff itself but the flanges,there's a simple cheap fix that would eliminate all the anguish but no,it's all too hard :confused:.If I was James I would change dealers first up and then fit silicon hoses and clamps. Pat

[1nando]

In my case the crown had delaminated. In saying that, you are correct in that a lot of backlash issues are due to flanges.

[JamesB71]

Thanks for your advice guys. Im dealing with Land Rover at the moment and will report back if Im able in the new year.

Oh, and for those who didnt read my whole post, or just got the gist, it isnt just turbo hoses.