My "new" 56

[Jcrowe69]

Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and have just bought a 56 series 1 that I'll pick-up between Christmas and new year, I'm not looking to do a full resto just get on the road and use it mainly for running around and a bit of beach driving. Mostly it looks OK, it has a Holden 179 that I'll replace, (maybe with a 200Tdi minus the turbo) and replace the diffs with range rover units so I can keep up with the traffic.
I need a few bits and I was wondering if you guys might have some parts in the dark corners of your sheds that you might want to part with. I'm getting rid of the cage over the roof and so are looking for a front bumper, doesn't need to be in excellent nick just general straight. It's also missing the front grill and the seats, If anyone has the seat
bases of a later series that would be good.
The big one is the brake pedal assembly has been replaces with a later series unit, does anyone have the full brake assembly from pedal to master cylinder?
Cheers
Jason

[crackers]

Interesting find and interesting plans for her. I'm looking forward to following the journey :)

Rather a Landy heavy environment she's currently in. What is it, a wreckers? Farm?

[russellrovers]

Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and have just bought a 56 series 1 that I'll pick-up between Christmas and new year, I'm not looking to do a full resto just get on the road and use it mainly for running around and a bit of beach driving. Mostly it looks OK, it has a Holden 179 that I'll replace, (maybe with a 200Tdi minus the turbo) and replace the diffs with range rover units so I can keep up with the traffic.
I need a few bits and I was wondering if you guys might have some parts in the dark corners of your sheds that you might want to part with. I'm getting rid of the cage over the roof and so are looking for a front bumper, doesn't need to be in excellent nick just general straight. It's also missing the front grill and the seats, If anyone has the seat
bases of a later series that would be good.
The big one is the brake pedal assembly has been replaces with a later series unit, does anyone have the full brake assembly from pedal to master cylinder?
Cheers
Jasonpm sent

[Jcrowe69]

Interesting find and interesting plans for her. I'm looking forward to following the journey :)

Rather a Landy heavy environment she's currently in. What is it, a wreckers? Farm?
I don't know, but will find out when I go down to pick her up, Dave who I'm buying it off is restoring an 80 inch on his farm near Goulburn and it looks like he definitely has a few Landy's lying around...

[Jcrowe69]

pm sent
Hi Russell,
I didn't seem to get your PM, could you resend it please?
Cheers
Jason

[Jcrowe69]

Well, The whole Family & I went down to pick up our "new"landy" today and brought her back to Sydney. We have a VW diesel van and I was genuinely surprised how well it hauled the S1 on a car trailer, chewed through the fuel I guess "two bricks" towing "three bricks" isn't exactly fuel efficient. Anyhow Dave who I bought it off has a shed that needs to be seen to be believed, I think there was about 5 80" landys around plus a bunch more 86".
After buying this one sight unseen it is better than expected, chassis is solid, body straight gearbox is good. The cage and bull bar are the first thing to come off tomorrow....
However, no brakes (nil) which makes for exciting unloading off a trailer declining into our driveway. I asked my wife to take a photo of the neighbours fence in case I needed to make a new one...missed reverse in low range and two hands on the handbrake saved me!
So after only a few hours, brakes are number one issue, Dave gave me the correct pedal and all the original linkages are still installed, however the previous owner has installed a series 2a/3 pedal assembly and on the passenger side a remote brake booster. The original brake fluid canister is still installed and so I'm wondering if I hook up the original pedal assembly, fluid canister into the remote booster to improve the brakes, or just ditch it and go back to the original brake set-up?
It has a holden 179 which I plan to ditch next year, probably for a 200tdi minus the turbo, interesting it also has duel fuel tanks which I haven't figured out the plumbing yet, but they don't leak!!!
Tomorrow is pulling together the list of bits needed...
Cheers
Jason

[crackers]

Ahh, the foolishness begins :D

[Jcrowe69]

Yup, bang on Crackers!!
Had a good day in the sun today, removed all of the external & internal roll cages plus all of the metal bolted/welded on over the last 60 years, I reckon she is at least 300kg lighter. Also got out the series 2a Brake pedal assembly and put the right brake pedal in. The original master cylinder is still there but seized so it needs to come out tomorrow, I can't move it around much without any brakes.
Also cracked the wheel nuts, two days soaking in WD40 and hanging off 3ft of water pipe did the trick!!
Cheers
Jason

[klonk]

Hi Jason,

That a nice looking wagon you've got, don't mind the colour scheme either.

That bullbar etc has worked well, panels are nice and straight.

I'd keep the upgraded brakes, I had a 2a with a 161 holden and car diffs fitted and standard brakes, they were fine most of the time but I had a couple of situations where I wished they were better.

Steve

[Jcrowe69]

Hi Klonk,
The plates on it are JOC330, so I reckon it was re-registered in the late 70's after an upgrade to look like the series 3 Game at the time, every thing is yellow and black. She's a '55 based on the plate but has a later series rear axle and the Holden 179, the dash is a birds nest of extra gauges/switches which all need to go but apart from that, there is no rot in the chassis and the panels are straight. The bulkhead is like swiss cheese with all the extra dials/ wrong pedals/bit of rust etc. Once it stops the bulkhead is the focus....

[Warb]

Not sure if you've done this kind of thing before, but just in case... Take photo's of everything from every angle before you touch them, it makes it very much easier to figure out how it all goes back together!!

Regarding the brakes, have you checked whether the "wheel" components have also been changed? If so, and depending on what has been fitted, the original master cylinder might not actually work without returning the entire system to "factory". And have you ever driven a Series 1 with the original brakes? When functioning at 100% they work well enough to pass rego, but can still be "interesting" in modern traffic! As you've already specified that you're not doing a full restoration, why not keep the later system? Especially as the current motor, and your planned replacement, are more powerful than the original. If you fit bigger wheels/tyres than the original 6" ones, you'll also have an increase in rotating mass for the brakes to fight against!

My 86" at present has a Holden motor, which under current legislation must have an engineering inspection and mod plate (unless you want to try to argue legalities of 1970's regulations and when the conversion was done) and when I discussed this with the certifier he specifically stated that he would expect a brake upgrade to accompany any increase in power, even if gearing - and hence speed - was unchanged. As the 200tdi would also require "engineering" (no chance it was done under the old regs!), you might face the same issue.

In answer to your specific question about linking the original master cylinder to the remote booster, some time ago I discussed this with a supplier of brake servo's and he told there is an issue with the booster being physically higher than the master cylinder. I recall it involves fluid draining back through the system as the diaphragm moves, resulting in a "long" or variable pedal push. Apparently it can be minimised with a modification to the booster but it is preferable to keep the booster below the master cylinder, which is hard with the Series 1 "under the floor" system! I wouldn't like to guess whether this actually relates to the master cylinder or the height of the fluid in the reservoir, at the time I was discussing another vehicle with it's own issues!

[Jcrowe69]

Thanks for the info Warb,
I have rebuilt a few cars over the years and had a series 3 that I put a Holden 186 in about twenty years ago, but always preferred the look of the Series 1.
I think I'll look into hooking up the remote booster to a new two bolt flange series 2 master cylinder under the floor in the right spot and check out if there are issues with the booster being mounted higher. I pulled the original 3 hole flanged unit out, it was seized solid and the threads for the piping are stuffed so beyond repair unfortunately.
Does anyone know the best place to buy a new master cylinder in OZ or do I need to go back to the UK?
I might check with my local Automotive Engineer if there are now compliance issues with the Holden 179 (every though it powered the Landy for 30 years!)
Cheers
Jason

[Warb]

By current rules, any engine that wasn't fitted to that model vehicle (AND isn't within 25% capacity) needs certifying, and that is where the problems start because now you fall under "new car" regulations also need a cat and emissions gear. My local inspector tells me we can get away without the cat, because the regulations state it must be fitted "where possible" and he feels it is safe to argue that there isn't room in an 86" to fit a cat.

I have an 86" with a 186, blue plated and registered for QLD but even that is apparently meaningless in NSW and it has to be be certified locally.

The old rules explicitly stated that in a 4x4 you could "self certify" different engines, and even gave examples. However that is no longer the case. So if you have an old registration document showing the Holden engine number you are fine, you can assume it was fitted before the rules changes and is therefore OK (though the 200TDI is another matter). If, however, you cannot demonstrate that the current motor was fitted and registered in the vehicle before the change of rules, every authority I have consulted (RMS technical department and two different certifiers) have agreed that it requires certification under the current rules. As always the internet experts may say different, and my wife tells me that it's not illegal if you don't get caught. Much like the hoons with illegal retrofitted HID headlights, it's all OK until you get caught or have an accident!

My solution was to put the 86" on Historic rego, which allows me to use it for 60 days in a year under the new "diary" system, and only requires my club to agree that it is representative of the period (though in fact my particular club also require a safety inspection and brake test by our local rego testing station).

I have bought parts from roverparts.com.au with success, and there is also seriesoneshop.com which is Australian but I have found they seem to list items but not have stock - they are better for used parts.

Parts are often >2.5x the UK price over here, but the UK suppliers often have disproportionately high shipping costs for small items. However even the huge freight costs often do not make up the difference to Australian pricing, I have imported doors and fuel tanks where the shipping costs is the same as the item price, and it is still significantly cheaper than buying it locally! It also depends on the exchange rate to some degree. My approach is to use eBay (where sellers often have much lower shipping charges) for small/individual items, and then place large orders with the like of lrdirect.com, lrseries.com, Paddocks, Craddocks or Dingocroft to distribute the high freight charge over a bunch of items. I try to buy genuine parts where possible, then Bearmach or Allmakes etc., and I attempt to avoid Britpart where possible. The exception is where Britpart supply an OEM item, but otherwise much of their stuff is horrible.

[Jcrowe69]

Thanks for the info again Warb,
One thing I haven't done yet is pull off the wheels to see if the original 10" drums are there or if they have been up graded at some stage.
I have no paperwork as they guy I bought it off picked it up from a guy who bought it from a deceased estate so Yup, I think it's going to be a long slog back to full rego. I'm a Mechanical Engineer myself so have a pretty good idea of what's required to make a safe reliable vehicle, the challenge is going to be making that fit within the rules....Is there any way of tracing a vehicle history from the number plates?
Cheers
Jason

[Warb]

I'm a Mechanical Engineer myself so have a pretty good idea of what's required to make a safe reliable vehicle, the challenge is going to be making that fit within the rules....Is there any way of tracing a vehicle history from the number plates?

Indeed, the rules in Australia do not always seem logical and there are some significant differences compared to the UK (like the copper brake pipe issue).

The RMS has a history tracker. JOC330 is (apparently) a 1966 Maroon Land Rover ute, the last 4 digits of the VIN are 0480. It's registration expired in February 1991. [This information is available to anyone with the registration number, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it]. For $22 they'll also tell you if it's been written off since 2004 and any other details they have. Now the interesting decision making begins - assuming that your "VIN" matches the 0480, do you register it as a 1966 vehicle, or try to convince them that the previous registration was wrong and change the year to the 1955 that you believe it to be? Hmm.


By current rules, any engine that wasn't fitted to that model vehicle (AND isn't within 25% capacity) needs certifying

Just reread that and it doesn't actually say what I was thinking! It should read "any engine that wasn't fitted to that model vehicle (and any engine that isn't within 25% capacity)...."

So I suspect that technically you can't, for example, take put a 2.25L Series 2 motor in an 80" that originally had a 1600cc without certification! But who would notice?

[Jcrowe69]

Mate, your a legend!!!
I'm digging back through the paint layers and there is the original proper green (dark olive!), another green, what looks like the maroon that the rego refers to then the yellow. The Galv bits of the body are buried under about 2mm of paint!!!!! so she is well pickled under paint...
Cheers
Jason

[crackers]

Mate, your a legend!!!
I'm digging back through the paint layers and there is the original proper green (dark olive!), another green, what looks like the maroon that the rego refers to then the yellow. The Galv bits of the body are buried under about 2mm of paint!!!!! so she is well pickled under paint...
Cheers
Jason

From my experience with Wombat ('56), the yellow is the factory primer so maroon she was ;)

Oops, hang on, I'm thinking of the chassis, I haven't been under the body paint yet.

[Jcrowe69]

Well, I have had a few productive days with ol' JOC330 and he's now stripped down as far as I plan to go (at this stage!!!). He sure isn't one for the "rivet counters" 60 years of farm life has led to some interesting mods.
The wiring has been "redone/added to" with a level of creativity that is beyond my imagination...I have pulled about half of it out so far and everything still works, more to go.
Finally cracked the wheel nuts today and pulled the wheels off, as per the rest of JOC wasp nests in each of the drums. Took the wheels down to the local tyrepower (who also happens to be our local LR/RR repair man) opening line....I'm looking for some tyres for my '55 land rover, answer "you poor bastard" so I guess they're OK... I'm wondering what you guys reckon I should reshod JOC with, I'm sticking with the 7.5R16 size as 80% of the time it will be running around the burbs but 3-4 times a year there will be a North Coast beach run, I have no intention of bashing it up with 4WD trips to see who's better etc. Been there done that.
First revelation was the front end has 11" drums, someone in the 1970's was thinking performance!!! as they were connected to a 2a Brake Pedal and a remote booster.
I'm going to put a replacement (If my Indian contact doesn't come through) series 2 Master Cylinder back the in the correct spot with an adaptor plate (3/2 hole flange) and install the fluid reservoir tank back in the right spot next to the drivers side fuel tank and reuse the remote booster, installing it on the inside of the passenger side chassis rail (I have duel tanks that I also need to replumb, the original fuel tank has been moved to the passenger side and a later series tank is drivers side and both tanks just run into the air in the engine bay...)
Looks like there is plenty of meat on the brake pads all round, drivers side rear wheel has an oil leak which I add to the list oil seals needing replacing..., rear diff, gearbox output shaft...not sure of anything else that is not leaking because its out of oil.....
I picked up my old Capstan winch from under my parents house over the weekend, it's been there for 20+ years after I pulled it off my '78 series 3, I knew it would come in handy one day, the drive shaft was even shortened for a Holden motor....
Anyhow that's enough work for this week (forgot to mention that the front bumper, grill and seat backs should turn up from Jim in Qld tomorrow..)
Cheers Jas

[Warb]

The brake booster will have a breather, and mounting it low exposes it to water, dirt etc. which is not good. Either mount it high, or extend the breather and hope for the best. They are not designed for exposed locations!

Tyres. I'm assuming the wheels have also been "upgraded", because I don't think 7.5's will fit on the original super-skinny rims which had 6" tyres. If you're going with 7.5" tyres and staying on the road, then really the cheapest tyres you can find, unless you want "looks". For off-road in 7.5" I've just bought Michelin XZL's which are supplied to emergency services and military worldwide. They are tough, hard wearing, supposedly good off-road (I have yet to test them) and not too noisy on-road. Official Australian stock (not grey import), fitted by my local tyre shop for $280 per corner including tube and balance. From time to time he also replaces the brand new 7.50R16 tyres on new Landcruiser 70's for the mines, and sells the ones he removes very cheaply.

Remember that many modern tyres are not to be used with tubes (various issues with tube abrasion and bead angle, IIRC) and, although many people do it, it is illegal to run without tubes on "tubed" wheels that do not have the rim retaining "ridge". The tyre company rep suggests that if the tyre blurb doesn't explicitly state a tyre can be used with tubes then it almost certainly shouldn't be, and illegal means wriggling space for insurance lawyers.......

I've just been through this for my military 109", so it's all fresh. My 86" runs wide tyres (31x10.5x15 I think) on after-market rims and flared arches, though I'm not sure they'll be staying. But they do look good...

[digger]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/uzN_0a0NFRi-iYlkw7CxWDAkFq7DqKfybAeUIxsjsNMB0dRt58vq1Ot1ImTI2z Co7wtMq44V-5-S87doycWFjJ71gZPnm-nCzCYhp2YW-PxXk6BDrsFBMBDEEf_36Y_Vcy1hE9YTvJYItrZ9x2gd5qIWnPp _MzYhhT6qGG0a5jJrSDikXwgIDKs81yY=w220-h123-nc

Could it have been a racv van or similar?

More interesting to me is the maroon paint...a.

Reminds me of another s1

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/slow-workshop/157732-1954-royal-review-47160049-a.html


Just a thought

[Jcrowe69]

Hi All,
Just thought I'd upload some photo's give a bit of an update on JOC, Sydney has pretty much rained continuously since I picked him up at the start of the year. Most of the work has been unpicking 60 years of modifications, removing "stuff" and fixing bits. I have had to rivet the seatbase back together that was snapped in a few spots as well as patching and respraying the transmission tunnel. It must have had an overdrive at some stage judging by the big hole drivers side.
All of the "schizophrenic" wiring is gone and I have rebuilt the instrument cluster. I have the correct seat backs and are making new bases that are off to the upholsterers next week. I have 4 lower seat back brackets and are chasing two more if someone has them.
The rims are at the sand blasters for a clean-up and respray, I'm going with Limestone (sorry rivet counters) as it's a hard top and will probably end up fitted out as a Station wagon with the roof resprayed Limestone.
Has anyone thoughts on tyres? Current I'm thinking 7.50R16 Dunlop Road Grippers but are open to suggestions.
Cheers
Jason