Ancient History ?

[VladTepes]

Anyone with an interest in Ancient history ?

And I mean old old stuff like greeks and romans and such.


I'm particularly interested in the "mycenaean" civilsation of the Greek bronze age.

[Michael2]

I've got an interest in ancient history, nothing so specific as one civilizastion or age though. What do you find interesting about the Mycenaeans? Their "customs" perhaps? (pun intended). style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[VladTepes]

(adopts comic book guy voice from the Simpsons) "Worst Pun Ever :!: "


I have a particular interest in the Tojan War and the events and history surrounding it and its time. There was an excellent BBC series by Michael Wood on this topic many years ago and I have the book which is excellent.

I have lost track of the number of times I've read the Odyssey (and probably read the Illiad nearly as often) but don;t tire of it.

Anyone looking to read it, the definitive translation (IMHO) is that by E. V .Rieu.

[Michael2]

I went to visit the Troys in '98, layer upon layer of Ancient Troys, and a corny wooden horse where the tour buses park.

Also visited Akrotiti, in Thera (Santorini) which was a fascinating glimpse into a Myceneaen city.

Are you interested in the civilization of the Trojans, or the epic history of their war with the Greeks?

My understanding is they were Phoneaecian / Caananite in cultural - ethnic origin, though by later times (post Alexander the Great / 336BC) all the near east was Greek, under the Selucid dynasty.

The Greeks used the diesel engined Land Rovers, running a blend of Olive oil & alcohol. The phoenecians, being more sea-faring had found a way to extract hydrogen from sea water to power their Land Rovers, but once Troy was under seige, the Trojans ran out of fuel and the torquey Greek Land Rovers were able to pull the walls apart. (just bringing it back to the forum theme).

Let's talk some more.

[VladTepes]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Mum, Dad and my sister went to Turkey and visited Troy and Gallipoli and places like that that I would have liked to go but they didn't take me :cry:

I have visited Mycenae as well as many other places of interest on the mainland, however.

I am intrigued by evidence of alliances (non Homeric evidence) between various rulers of that time and referring to the king of Mycenae as the 'Great King' of his area.

The whole Trojan thing is so clouded in myth and legend, numerous digs, and numerous cities on the one site. What a fantastic puzzle :!: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I LOVE IT :!: :!:

[Michael2]

The problem with the Greeks was they never got it together politically speaking, though modern philosophies about democracies would have us think otherwise.

The Greek states were bound by religion, language and sport, (just like the Commonwealth) but remained independent warring factions until Alexander III (The Great) united them against the Persians. Even so, Julius Ceaser is reported to have been astounded at how a man (Alexander III) could conquer so much, yet leave so little in the way of government behind to run it. Think about it, the Persians (before the Greeks) and the Romans (after the Greeks) had central governments that made laws and collected taxes. Even in power the Greeks were still broken up into regional powers.

Alexanders mum reckoned that they were descended from Achilles,there's another secular refference to the Iliad.

Anyway, I read your last post as I was walking out the door and thought you were talking about a Great Near Eastern king, so I had a whole spiel (conjecture) to write about that. Then I got back to the computer and realised it was about a Greek King - so I came up with this.

The problem with all this is that there are no contemporary historical records available, and the later records lack accuracy that can tie them down to specific locations, times and people. But having seen miles and miles of fortified walls in southern Greece, spanning mountinous landscapes, there is no doubt that the kingdoms that built them were of substantial might. Basically whole regions were walled off, instead of just cities!

I suppose southern Greece (the region now known as Kalamata - famous for olives) where I saw these walls was the ancient equivalent of oil fields for fuelling their Military Land Rovers.

Blah Blah Blah.......

[JDNSW]

Finally got round to contributing to this thread. Yes, I'm interessted in ancient history - isn't everyone? I have a number of books on the subject plus the related one of archaeology. I am not generally very impressed by TV ancient history - they take half an hour to tell what is covered in one paragraph in a book, and very often have a particular axe to grind.
My main interests are ancient technology/science, with the best documented areas being Egypt, Crete, Greece and Rome. Can't read Coptic or Greek, but can work my way through Latin.

[planb]

did latin at school for 5 years... can speak mabey 2 words of it now :roll:

the romans were cool- eat, drink, be merry... i reckon living then would have been good, lots of warriors etc cause what ever you won in a battle- you keep it, countries included.

apart from that only passing interest nothing to full on

[Michael2]

good to hear from other historically minded people.

JD I borrowed a book from the library recently (2 years ago) about ancient inventions and engineering techniques. Very very interesting. I also bought a book in the British Museum on Doctors & Diseases in the Roman Empire, which I read on the plane on the return journey. In Turkey I visited an Aesklepieion (Hospital - Temple to Asklepios) in Pergumum which had a reputation for healing everyone who went there. This was qualified by the fact they they didn't accept terminal patients, only sickly ones. Even so archeologists did uncover a burial pit at the back of the hospital. Medicine has a long & glorious tradition of burying its mistakes. Sports medicine was big in Roman times - today we'd call it trauma medicine. Some ancinet doctors made good names for themselves by reducing the mortality rate among injured gladiators.

Matt, I suppose the Roman times were good to live in, the Pax Romana and all that (Roman Peace - ie: no wars in the safe territories for a looooong time). Roman soldiers had to do a 20 year tour of duty though in order to get a pension and citizenship. The Empire did all the keeping.

[VladTepes]

You want ancient technology check this out:


The Antikythera Device

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Kythera.htm

[Michael2]

That was in the library book I'd borrowed. They say that when Archimedes was killed he was yelling that they should not harm the circles. There's conjecture that he made this device, but if not, he may have been working on a similar computer. Amazing how people can ponder on things and work them out when they're not distracted by TV and online chat forums.

That's why Land Rover owners are a bit smarter than others, they spend time under the stars, I mean under their cars, pondering things.

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by Michael2
Amazing how people can ponder on things and work them out when they're not distracted by TV and online chat forums.

That's why Land Rover owners are a bit smarter than others, they spend time under the stars, I mean under their cars, pondering things.

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ROFLMAO style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Michael2]

Vlad, what does ROFLMAO mean? :?: :?: :?: :?:

[Michael2]

Oh, I get it : "Rolling on Floor Laughing My Arse Off"

[VladTepes]

chuckle chuckle style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif yeah.

[Redback]

I'm a bit of a Celtic person (pronounced with a K) myself in particular the Sea peoples, who were believed to have ruled Egypt for 200 years, not alot is known of these Celts but what is, is very interesting.

Baz.

[Michael2]

I read an article on the peat bog man that was found (probably 15-20 years ago now). The intricacy of the Celtic jewellery was amazing.

During WWII there were some allied air bases in the British Isles. On one island (I can't remember as I read this about 12 years ago) they unearthed some massive chains that they used for hauling bogged trucks out, they were stronger than anything the military had at the time and they were ancient!!! Quite amazing.

Religiously the holy days and gods of the Celts corresponded with many of those in the near east (near Troy actually). I just happened to be talking to a druid recently.

The Celts were great with iron, unfortunately iron cars don't do too well in boggy conditions, and their reliance of iron 4WDs led to their demise. It wasn't until the British peoples mastered the craft of aluminium (brimabright specifically) that they were able to master land (Land Rover) and sky (Spitfire).

[Pedro_The_Swift]

just like this----


http://www.aulro.com/albums/album244/Skyrover.jpg

[VladTepes]

:roll: Pedro... you silly fella :!:

That pic is MODERN history :!:

[Michael2]

Brimabright did lead to some nautical demises though. Especially when it came into contact with an Exocet missile in the Falklands- which is what that skyrover reminds me off. But again we digress into more recent history.

[Michael2]

Sad news Vlad,
recall the aforementioned archeological site on Thira (Santorini)? I just gleaned the following report from the web:

One person is dead and six others were injured when the steel roof of an archaeological site on the island of Santorini (Thyra) in the Aegean Sea, collapsed.

Five of the injured were tourists: two Slovenians, two Americans and a German, and the sixth was a local guide.

The deceased has not been identified as yet, but unconfirmed reports say he was a Welsh tourist.

Rescue teams worked late into the night but were unable to get to the body of the victim.

Three of the people rescued are in a serious condition and have been flown by military aircraft to KAT Hospital in northern Attica.

Deputy Culture Minister Petros Tatoulis visited the scene of the tragedy and has ordered an immediate investigation into the cause of the accident.



SOURCE: World Watch
ERT ATHENS
Broadcast on SBS TV in Greek Mon to Sat 10:30 - 11:30am

[VladTepes]

Sad indeed.


Better to study history than pass into it.

[Antaine]

Interesting subject.

My area of interest extends back to the Indo European peoples who gave rise to my Gael Ancestors along with my Gael Ancestors.

It is interesting to note the linguistic similarities of the Indo European and later Celtic Clans with those of the Indian (Asia sub continent) as well as similarities in deities and Ancestor worship.

Of course both peoples also worshipped the mighty God Land-ee and Goddess Rovah

Something to think about for those interested in the Celtic/Gael tribes is that it may have been as recently as 500 years ago that my Ancestors were still hunting heads as trophies style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif seems like a good idea in the wake of modern history and Bali.

Sláinte (Your Health)

[JohnE]

Well funny about all the stuff on this forum, today walked the walls and grounds of Mycenae, yesterday, Olympia, the day before delphi, interesting stuff especially after going through the Greek History museum last week, it put a place to what I saw. The interesting part is how developed they were in 1500 BC and the times after. Makes the romans look modern.



john

[Michael2]

I was thinking about the linguistic and religious similarities Antaine mentioned.

Today we have the celebration of Easter - adorned with rabbits & eggs, signs of fertility attributed to the Celtic godess Ester (or similar depending on text) from whom this annual celebration gets its name. She is closely aligned with the Middle Eastern goddesses Astarte and Cybele (also go by similar sounding names depending on country of origin).

Linguistically linked to Ester are such words such as Star and (I'm guessing) aestrogen. How do words associated with outer space and fertility find a common scource?

Well these dieties were godesses of fertility (harvest or nature) and heavens (zodiac). A clue to the liguistic link can be made when we compare Astarte (and her similar sounding counterparts) with Cybele, whose name is totally different, but who shared many similar attributes.

Let's break Cybele down to Cy, (Greek kyklos from which we get cycle / circle) and bele (same as Bel in Babylonian or Baal in Caananite - meaning Lord / Lady). "Lady of the circle / bowl / sphere"

In ancient times it was thought that the stars hung on a firmament, a large bowl spread over the earth. Hence Cy (round). The roundness of this firmament was akin to the roundness of the womb, in fact in Greek "Kylia" means belly and "Kyklos" means circle, the Ky (or "Cy" in its Latinised form) pertaining to the shape.

So the names of the dieties pertained to their domains. So which came first? the diety and it's domain was named after it? or the domain to which the diety pertained? I don't know; today we have days of the week named after dieties not vice versa, so that may be a clue.

Another clue may be deduced from Greek - "Kyclos" means circle, but "Asteri" means star. This would suggest that the Greeks got the words from preceeding languages, as the names of the Godesses which pertain to these domains (Cybele & Astarte) seem to be interchangable in the original application. But as the names got to denote specific things, then the words for these things were adopted into common usage.

Anyway, that's how my mind rambles - 8O

I think the speed of ones imagination is inversely proportional to the speed of ones car. :wink:

I may ramble with other historical & linguistic puzzles in the future, but for now, I think I've been confusing enough.

[VladTepes]

Originally posted by Antaine
Of course both peoples also worshipped the mighty God Land-ee and Goddess Rovah


style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ROFL style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif


JohnE - I'm jealous !! :twisted:

[Michael2]

The Persians of course chose to worship a Mazda!!!! His worship died out shortly after the warranty period expired.

Then there's an Asian idol in the shape of a Toy Otter, whose pagan rituals have spread to our own land.


style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Antaine]

Pity Douglas Adams is gone, he could turn this into a best seller style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif