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Bradtot
16th August 2005, 12:36 AM
Well after many hrs of work My 89 vogue is on gas with the gas tanks underneath . It took me 15hrs to fit the bloody things as the rear of the efi Rangies is different to the carbie models.
I had to purchase another tank cradle to fit but nobody told me or wanted to tell me if there were any mods to do on the body....well I found out the hard way having to fit the tanks up and down over 15 times. I started at 10 in the morning and finished at 2 am the next morning.
I had to grind/hack away the rear of the crossmember where the original fuel tank was removing bit by bit until I could get the tanks up as far as they could go before I was able to drill the new holes in the side chassis rail.
Many thanks to Peter O'donell for the pics he sent me of his cradles and mounting. I ended up with a very similar cradle as Peter's from lpgas 1 Victoria this bolts to the original tank mounts in the front but not the rear the rear are bolted to the chassis rail on each side.
I also had to modify my towbar.
I also mounted the convertor and when this was done took it to the gas guys who did the rest and all the plumbing and wiring.
Total cost so far inc parts and lab not including my lab was $893....and ...and a big and I also get back 500 from the govt here in the west.
I was told that it is not illegal to mount the bits but u are not allowed to do any pipe connections without a license this is how I was able to get things done a little cheaper, besides the gas guys are so busy that there were weeks on the waiting list and I am going to Broome next week.
I will post some pics soon On what I have done. The car drives just so nice now and there is no diff on pet or gas. I have adjusted the timing to run on petrol just pinging and on gas is good. My 89 uses the flapper airflow so I am a little worried about backfire so have loosedned the 2 clamps holding the tubing from the airflow to the plenum so if it does backfire it should blow this pipe off. I will fit a backfire valve later when I come back. I already have a spare ecu and airlow meter that I will carry.
I also have fitted long range petrol tanks under the car and fill from the original filler neck. Something I did not know was the orange low fuel warning light works off the fuel gauge not from the sender unit in the tank. My 82 rangie works off the sender in the tank, what this means is due to me using my original fuel gauge as my gas gauge and fitting a sender unit in the gas tanks when I am low on gas the light will come on. The only bad thing is I could not get an exact resistance to suit the original fuel gauge so when my gas is full it shows 3/4 and when the gauge shows empty it is actally 1/4. I will fix this at a later date, so far I am more than pleased. I was worried when I fitted my springs from my 82 to the 89 that it was going to be too hard but as I am adding weight..ie gas tanks towbar, spare wheel carrier everything is getting lower and more comfortable, I also have koni's fitted as well so this also stiffens the rear.
I have been working on this swapover for more than 6 months now and it is coming to an end. Soon all I have left to do is fit my front arb locking diff with my new 24 spline axels( all the plumbing is done) and transfer my Maxidrive to the rear and I will be one very happy boy. As I said soon I will post pics of the beasty. I am unable to raise it any higher as it scrapes the garage door now with the ali roofrack on.
I have it insured for 24 grand AGREED Value at a cost of $582 per year with TCIS Insurance ANYWHERE in aust
Not bad considering the base price last year was 11 grand, as thats all I could insure it for!!
Have more fun
Brad style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

CraigE
16th August 2005, 05:38 AM
Nice one Brad. I got new gas fuel gauges from somewhere company now escapes me for the minute. The damage was not great. They are led bar type gauge. All you need to tell them is the resistance which should be on the gauges on the tank itself.
How much and what size were the tanks you used and were they new?

MacMan
16th August 2005, 06:12 AM
Well done!

Thankfully our Disco was already converted when we bought it, but one thing that gets me is that I know so little about LPG setups and it makes me a little nervous for bigger trips.

Looking forward to pics.

Mike

Michael2
16th August 2005, 01:55 PM
Good one Brad, I can only advise you to fit the backfire valve ASAP. Then when it does backfire you can smuggly smile and say - "just paid for itself."

And thanks for the heads up on the insurance.

101RRS
16th August 2005, 02:19 PM
Hi Brad,

Did you buy a kit or acquire the different parts as you went along?

Thanks

Garry

loanrangie
16th August 2005, 07:56 PM
I am about to fit VDO senders to my twin sill tanks the correct resistance for a rangie (240 - 20 ohms) to work on the original gauge and i have a combined dual fuel switch/ lpg gauge in the dash close to the binnacle which is a neat fit. A simple twin pole switch selects tanks and the sender for the tank selected.

LandyAndy
16th August 2005, 08:35 PM
Hi Brad
Welldone.
On my Ser3 I have a VDO lpg gauge to read the LPG tank only,saves trying to match gauges and switches.
You can avoid LPG backfires by starting on petrol then switching over,could save a hassle whilst on holidays.
Enjoy the Broome trip.
Andrew

RichardK
16th August 2005, 08:44 PM
Hi Brad,

Good idea to fit the backfire trap ASAP, I did 2 AFM's on the '86 RR before putting one on. There is a place in Vic Park that repairs them but I don't remember their name but could find it if need be.

I solved the backfire damage problem by installing the Wolf 3D which did away with the AFM and it rarely ever backfires now.

Bradtot
16th August 2005, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by CraigE
Nice one Brad. I got new gas fuel gauges from somewhere company now escapes me for the minute. The damage was not great. They are led bar type gauge. All you need to tell them is the resistance which should be on the gauges on the tank itself.
How much and what size were the tanks you used and were they new?

Gas tanks were from my 82 rangie that were brand new 2 years ago they are an apa make and are 45 litres each with 40 useable from each A66 was model from memory.

Craig I want to use the original fuel gauge for my gas as I have a VDO gauge installed for my petrol sill tanks. I had this setup from the last Rangie and was more than happy
I can change the sender unit on the gas tank but need to get closer to the original on the rangie fuel tank in resistance ..I will do it soon as I repair electronic equipment for a living....just need some time
Thanks for the comments
Brad

Bradtot
16th August 2005, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by MacMan
Well done!

Thankfully our Disco was already converted when we bought it, but one thing that gets me is that I know so little about LPG setups and it makes me a little nervous for bigger trips.

Looking forward to pics.

Mike

Mike my previous Rangie has covered 512000kms Mostly on gas many miles from nowhere I would not be afraid to go or do anything . It has never let me down in over 12 years
Pics soon
Brad

Bradtot
16th August 2005, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Michael2
Good one Brad, I can only advise you to fit the backfire valve ASAP. Then when it does backfire you can smuggly smile and say - "just paid for itself."

And thanks for the heads up on the insurance.

Am planning to soon but for now have left clamps loose on plenum hose
I am happy to pass on any savings that I know about for all and ins is a touchy subject.
Brad style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Bradtot
16th August 2005, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by garrycol
Hi Brad,

Did you buy a kit or acquire the different parts as you went along?

Thanks

Garry

Garry I allready had the tanks but needed the new cradle and I bought all the other bits, convertor, saftey valves etc and fitted them when I could . It was not really a kit ,but the convertor and under the engine bay is standard gas stuff for all models its just the tank and or tanks and position you want them to be in that you choose to suit your personal wants.
Have fun
Brad

Bradtot
16th August 2005, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by RichardK
Hi Brad,

Good idea to fit the backfire trap ASAP, I did 2 AFM's on the '86 RR before putting one on. There is a place in Vic Park that repairs them but I don't remember their name but could find it if need be.

I solved the backfire damage problem by installing the Wolf 3D which did away with the AFM and it rarely ever backfires now.

Hello Richard I will soon but I do have a spare afm with me.
If it does stuff up I will try and fix myself as I have repaired the ecu for this model before for Britparts and discovery autos as I repair electronic equipment for a living
ask kevin...lol style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Bradtot
16th August 2005, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by loanrangie
I am about to fit VDO senders to my twin sill tanks the correct resistance for a rangie (240 - 20 ohms) to work on the original gauge and i have a combined dual fuel switch/ lpg gauge in the dash close to the binnacle which is a neat fit. A simple twin pole switch selects tanks and the sender for the tank selected.

Hello Loanrangie...I actually thought of doing what u did it was my second choice but as I am A lazy bugger I went the way I described so I look rather than switch I will post pics of my dash layout style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Bradtot
16th August 2005, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by LandyAndy
Hi Brad
Welldone.
On my Ser3 I have a VDO lpg gauge to read the LPG tank only,saves trying to match gauges and switches.
You can avoid LPG backfires by starting on petrol then switching over,could save a hassle whilst on holidays.
Enjoy the Broome trip.
Andrew

Hello Andrew As I have been on gas since 93 with my other rangie with carbie I always got in the habit of switching to petrol 1 km before I got home, therefore leaving petrol in the carbie overnite thus helping to stop the gaskets and the rest of the system from drying up/stuffing up. So I will also do this now for this one
Thanks for the thoughts on enjoying Broome......BLOODY HELL I WILL anywhere away from work is a blessing
Brad 8O 8O 8O

kaistuff
17th August 2005, 12:23 AM
LPG conversion is a must now it is only 1/3 of the cost of ULP so when i get back from my holiday i will have to convert the red beast
very interested to see some pic's


wanted LPG parts for a twin carby 3.5v8 cheep please :wink: :wink:

timberwolf_302
17th August 2005, 06:14 PM
Do the heads on early V8s need hardened valve seats for them to run on LPG straight? (as in a dedicated LPG setup)

Andrewpv01
17th August 2005, 06:48 PM
I think any pre-unleaded motor needs either hardened seats or an oil injection system. This squirts in a certain ammount of oil with the LPG to lubricate the seals.

Andrew

rangieman
17th August 2005, 07:42 PM
how many ks are you getting out of 80 litres of gas mine is doing about 180 ks to 60 litres a bit poor me thinks

matbor
17th August 2005, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by RichardK
Hi Brad,

Good idea to fit the backfire trap ASAP, I did 2 AFM's on the '86 RR before putting one on. There is a place in Vic Park that repairs them but I don't remember their name but could find it if need be.

I solved the backfire damage problem by installing the Wolf 3D which did away with the AFM and it rarely ever backfires now.

I was thinking of putting in a WOLF 3D and LPG setup as well, are the WOLF3d's reliable ? are they expensive to get installed ? do you think it has improved fuel economy ?

loanrangie
17th August 2005, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by rangieman
how many ks are you getting out of 80 litres of gas mine is doing about 180 ks to 60 litres a bit poor me thinks

Bloody hell, i was getting 350- 370 k's per 70ltrs before i swapped the gas from 1 rangie to another, havent checked the current mileage yet as i am still tuning it.

loanrangie
17th August 2005, 08:54 PM
For the cost of the wolf its sort of a waste if you run on gas 95% of the time.
Although you could set the wolf with dual ignition maps and have it use the lpg map when switched to gas and turn the fuel pump and injectors off.

RichardK
17th August 2005, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by matbor+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(matbor)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-RichardK
Hi Brad,

Good idea to fit the backfire trap ASAP, I did 2 AFM's on the '86 RR before putting one on. There is a place in Vic Park that repairs them but I don't remember their name but could find it if need be.

I solved the backfire damage problem by installing the Wolf 3D which did away with the AFM and it rarely ever backfires now.

I was thinking of putting in a WOLF 3D and LPG setup as well, are the WOLF3d's reliable ? are they expensive to get installed ? do you think it has improved fuel economy ?[/b][/quote]

The engine has been the most reliable it has ever been since installing the Wolf. I understand that the Wolf 4 is not as good as the 3D
If I recall correctly it cost around $2200 to supply and install and that included GM 5 litre injectors as the RR injectors did not have the capacity.

There was no improvement in the economy even though that was one of the the main reasons to install it in the first place.

RichardK
17th August 2005, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by rangieman
how many ks are you getting out of 80 litres of gas mine is doing about 180 ks to 60 litres a bit poor me thinks

Our 4.6 RR we get 240K's from 60 litres and the 3.9 (new one) is getting 290K's

Michael2
17th August 2005, 09:44 PM
My 3.5 '88 EFI RR (manual) gets 4km per litre around town and 6.5+km per litre on a highway run on LPG. The only deviations from standard are a foam air filter and a hi-clone. The engine's done 409,000km and has been on LPG for the last 60,000km.

Other factors would be tyres. I'm running 215 85R16 tyres, - tall and narrow. But if the height offsets economy, it also offsets the odometer, though the tyre width may affect fuel consumption.

LRCounty
17th August 2005, 10:04 PM
Loanrangie, RichardK

The only problem with a Wolf 3D and running seperate timing maps for LPG and Petrol is: The auxilary connection that can be used to control an idle air bypass solenoid, is the same connection that is used to switch the ignition map via an external switch/relay/source.

My Wolf 3D (running a 3.9V8 with Disco plenum and injection) is setup as I bought it, with dual ignition maps for the two fuels. Hence the "patched in" Idle air bypass solenoid is some ancient thing that seems to rely on engine/air temp, and can vary a bit depending on weather conditions such as humidity and temperature. The only real problem though is in summer, when I put the aircon on, the revs drop too low, and the air bypass solenoid does not compensate. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif I'm looking at building a separate circuit to control one of the later stepper motors to rectify this issue.

RichardK, what's the setup for the idle air bypass on your 4.6??

Oh....and my current fuel use is 4.5km/l around town, 5km/l on country runs. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Cheers
Andre

RichardK
17th August 2005, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by LRCounty
Loanrangie, RichardK

The only problem with a Wolf 3D and running seperate timing maps for LPG and Petrol is: The auxilary connection that can be used to control an idle air bypass solenoid, is the same connection that is used to switch the ignition map via an external switch/relay/source.

My Wolf 3D (running a 3.9V8 with Disco plenum and injection) is setup as I bought it, with dual ignition maps for the two fuels. Hence the "patched in" Idle air bypass solenoid is some ancient thing that seems to rely on engine/air temp, and can vary a bit depending on weather conditions such as humidity and temperature. The only real problem though is in summer, when I put the aircon on, the revs drop too low, and the air bypass solenoid does not compensate. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif I'm looking at building a separate circuit to control one of the later stepper motors to rectify this issue.

RichardK, what's the setup for the idle air bypass on your 4.6??

Oh....and my current fuel use is 4.5km/l around town, 5km/l on country runs. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Cheers
Andre

Hi Andre,
Knowing the history your vehicle I will catch up with Dave who installed both of them and find out if there was any difference in the installation

LRCounty
17th August 2005, 10:22 PM
Thanks Richard,

BTW....after looking at your "intake air pressure reference" setup for your LPG converter, I copied it for my system...although mines a lot less fancy with a piece of 3" exhaust and a brass threaded hose connector style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
But the good news...it fixed the surging problem style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Cheers
Andre

RichardK
17th August 2005, 11:03 PM
The important thing is it is fixed style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

matbor
18th August 2005, 07:16 AM
i started another thread on the wolf3d etc before this one got to hijacked style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Foru...c&p=98366#98366 (http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=98366#98366)

Bradtot
18th August 2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by timberwolf_302
Do the heads on early V8s need hardened valve seats for them to run on LPG straight? (as in a dedicated LPG setup)
Simple answer is no
Any v8 rover motor was fitted with hardened valve seats and can be run ,depending on compession ratio on most fuels.
I have used leaded, unleaded ,premium unleaded, lpg without any motor problems after 300k
Brad style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Bradtot
18th August 2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by rangieman
how many ks are you getting out of 80 litres of gas mine is doing about 180 ks to 60 litres a bit poor me thinks
You have a problem
I was getting from my carbied 4 speed 370 to 400k on 78 ltres consistently for many years.
Brad style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif

Michael2
18th August 2005, 10:20 PM
But Brad, you're in Perth, that counts as highway milage - no stop starting. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Bradtot
18th August 2005, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Michael2
But Brad, you're in Perth, that counts as highway milage - no stop starting. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yep Dead right but please dont tell everyone they will all want to MIGRATE!!!!
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

rangieman
19th August 2005, 12:01 AM
I just had the mixer re shimmed and i dont think they adjusted the power valve.i also had a 83 3.9 carbie rangie that returned between 350&400 ks to 75 litres what i hear most of these injected rover motors luv to chew lpg
thinking about going carbie .but ill adjust power valve first .and by the way all of my ks are highway i work half hour south of cranny all highway no stop starting :roll:

Bradtot
21st August 2005, 09:02 PM
For those interested I now have taken some pics ..not all good but ok have a look and I hope you all can get something out of it
Take care
Brad 8O
http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?set_album...=view_album.php (http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Choco-gas-conversion&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

p38arover
21st August 2005, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Bradtot+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bradtot)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Michael2
But Brad, you're in Perth, that counts as highway milage - no stop starting. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Yep Dead right but please dont tell everyone they will all want to MIGRATE!!!!
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/b][/quote]

Last year I went over to Perth to visit Brad - OK, I went on holiday but ended up having dinner with Brad :roll:

We left Sydney on Thursday morning on a non-stop flight and arrived in Perth on Sunday arvo.

At least it seemed like Sunday arvo - there was bugger all traffic in the Perth CBD. Lucky mongrels. And to think I moved from Carnarvon (WA) to Sydney in the 70's instead of moving to Perth. :oops:

Ron