Diesel engine problems

[SeanP]

G'day all, this is a 1995 Mitsubishi Pajero 2.8 TD engine.

I'm about to buy the above car, for a steal, because it is having running issues. Because I don't give myself enough dramas with my current Disco....

Anyhow, I'm new to diesels. I understand the basic principles of the Diesel engine, but this car has a fuelling issue which is why the car is being sold.

Bloke used it as his daily, no dramas. Went out 4wding all day, drove home, no problems. Car started fine the next day and on his way to work he managed a few kms down the road before it started pushing out a fair decent amount of black smoke. So the bloke called it quits and headed home. On the way back the car started to lose power and increased levels of smoke. By the time he got home and went to key the car off, it wouldn't die. He stalled it to kill it. Hasn't started it since. He has told me that a diesel fitter friend of his has had a look and believes that a valve in the injector pump is sticking open causing over fuelling and the non-shut off event. Seems believable to me.

If it is a new pump that's a pretty hefty chunk of cash, so I'm going into it thinking if I put all new seals in the pump it should fix it.

Am I going in too deep here? I'm competent with tools, no fear of breaking anything and will give most jobs a go (unless expert tools are needed). Any tips, thoughts are appreciated.

Edit: new/refurbished injectors were put in 'recently'. Not sure on exact kms.

[loanrangie]

Could also be leaking turbo seals leaking oil into the intake causing it to run on or excessive crankcase pressure doing the same.
Even if its cheap why buy it ? it has less resale value than a similar age disco.

[SeanP]

For a couple of hundred dollars, I figure 'why not'. If I can fix it, I'll be able to sell it at a profit. If not, I will likely be able to recover most of my money - bull bar, snorkel, winch, new tyres. Not a complete waste. I like tinkering so gives me something to do.

[bee utey]

Sounds like a split or delamination in one of the turbo hoses, pull everything off around the engine and have a good look.

[justinc]

Like beeutey says first things first pull pipework off and check it all out. Personally if it needs a turbo and you can get it running for under 1k then do it and sell it on. If it needs an injector pump (not likely with those symptoms i think?) Then don't bother. Wreck it and flog off all the good bits. The 4m40 engine was no exciting thing and the trans etc wasn't much better. An uninspiring vehicle. The later crd 3.2 was a fair bit more of a vehicle.

Jc

[PhilipA]

You didn't need a washing machine with those. Just put the clothes on the roof and let it idle for a while.
Regards Philip A

[SeanP]

So picked the car up this arvo. Turns out it had a diesel run away, not a dieselling issue like I first thought. I always assumed the two terms were not interchangeable. Diesel run away being when it slowly builds up revs and even with the key off continues to rev till generally something catastrophic happens. Dieselling being the car just idles slowly under its own steam.

Car won't start as the battery is cactus, even with a jump, but the car is in great condition otherwise. I'll start getting into it this evening once it cools down a touch. In the mean time I'm painfully trying to pull my radius arms off to replace some bushes. How does 20 years of rust and torque on a nut sound!

Edit: well after getting stuck into it this evening I can say Im surprised at some peoples diagnosis over the Internet is better than other peoples in real life. Was told it was a fuel pump, by the blokes diesel mechanic friend. Turns out it is the turbo. Started off poorly with the first pipe I pulled being coated in oil, so much so it was leaking, and this was post intercooler! Then it got worse and worse. Intercooler dripping with oil. Post compressor hose dripping... But worst of all, turbo intake pipe was filled, and upon my removal of it, a good handful of oil hit the road. Wowzas. The compressor wheel is knackered.
Some pics for those who are interested. I guess at least it being a turbo it is easier to fix than a fuel pump - old out, new in.

Post intercooler to intake:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/879.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/seanpurtell88/media/WP_20160103_013_zps2kqte4wy.jpg.html)

Intercooler inlet:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/900.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/seanpurtell88/media/WP_20160103_016_zpsmheydzqt.jpg.html)

Turbo compressor wheel:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/880.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/seanpurtell88/media/WP_20160103_029_zps3m4v8hfc.jpg.html)

[justinc]

Nice.... i would be careful starting it again until you remove the glow plugs and crank it by hand first. There is a possibility of hydraulic lock and bent conrods (if that hasn't already happened during the runaway) if the intake manifold still has oil in it it will dump some into the cylinder when an intake valve opens...��

Jc

[steveG]

I'd be doing a compression test before thinking about a new turbo...

Steve

[SeanP]

The intake track, at the end of the piping into the plenum while it is oily, I wouldn't expect it to have enough oil to lock a cylinder as it is quite wet, but not so wet it could lock a cylinder. I agree with the compression test though. Something else to do! Thanks for the help.

[Svengali0]

The intake track, at the end of the piping into the plenum while it is oily, I wouldn't expect it to have enough oil to lock a cylinder as it is quite wet, but not so wet it could lock a cylinder. I agree with the compression test though. Something else to do! Thanks for the help.

Depending on miles covered, you can assume it will have its fair share of blow-by so while a compression test will give perhaps useful information- in the real world even worn engines can go for a long time with appropriate care. This buy of yours looks good to me. Pity you can't do the seals and bearings in the turbo- that would make it sweeter cost wise. If she was running ok before, chances are it will again with another turbo bolted up- just depends on how hard and long the engine runaway was sustained. Don't spend much money and don't keep it for too long. Otherwise- looks good! If there isn't evidence of endless grease and oil crap over a filthy engine, then it may have good life in it yet. These things go on the head especially so make sure it maintains temp ok. Pull the glow plugs and turn it over on the starter first -a 'few times'.

[cafe latte]

For a cheap car why not get a cheap aftermarket turbo off ebay?
Chris

[LandyAndy]

Sean.
If you find out the motor is OK and want a Turbo,I may have one suitable.
I bought it to replace a noisy turbo on an older Triton I had with the 4D56 motor.Its out of the later than yours 3.2Lt motor,was told less than 50000km when I bought it,spindle feels OK,looks to be OK.The 4D56 detonated and the Trytoo was sold before it was fitted.At the time I was told they are all interchangeable,give a faster spool up due to smaller exhaust turbine,but you need to do the research.
The numbers off this turbo are.
Compressor turbine numbers
TFO35-3
040528031
49135-03411
Exhaust turbine casting numbers
135-12410
4 060-D2

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/842.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/004_zpsly6ajrpx.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/843.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/003_zps7jomcofo.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/844.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/002_zpslg7qmoxp.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/845.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/001_zpsqhxdeoph.jpg.html)


Andrew

[SeanP]

First, thanks for all the replies and tips. All appreciated.

Pulled the turbo completely out and the shaft has broken in half. I've not ever seen anything this broken before. I can only assume you can imagine the amount of play as a result.

I'm still trying to get info off the old owner but he is on night shifts and his tech knowledge is limited to say the least. From his initial convo with me it seems that it didn't rev up for long as he managed to stall it to get it to stop. Still full of oil too.

Svengali - I have the same train of thought. Fix it, sell it. My disco is running too well and goes too good out bush to swap for the Pajero.

Cafe - that's my plan, $300 delivered with 12 month warranty too.

Andy - stand by for a PM.

[SeanP]

Update - with a new battery, car won't crank over, no 'tick' from the starter motor. I didn't see the glow plug light in the dash at any stage either which surprised me.

Fuses for ignition circuit is fine. Glow plug fuse is fine. Tried a roll start, car turns over fine, no starting though, not even while being pulled.

I'm thinking I'll pull an injector and see if I can get any fuel to it. But, without even the starter cranking at all I'm just about beat. I'll pull the starter and see if it is dirty or works off the car. Besides that... Help?

The battery was completely dead. Zero indications. So I had to put the good battery back in my 4wd in order to tow it. So the car had zero electrical power during the roll start. I've not had problems doing it in the past (that I can think of), but is this something different?

[cafe latte]

Update - with a new battery, car won't crank over, no 'tick' from the starter motor. I didn't see the glow plug light in the dash at any stage either which surprised me.

Fuses for ignition circuit is fine. Glow plug fuse is fine. Tried a roll start, car turns over fine, no starting though, not even while being pulled.

I'm thinking I'll pull an injector and see if I can get any fuel to it. But, without even the starter cranking at all I'm just about beat. I'll pull the starter and see if it is dirty or works off the car. Besides that... Help?

The battery was completely dead. Zero indications. So I had to put the good battery back in my 4wd in order to tow it. So the car had zero electrical power during the roll start. I've not had problems doing it in the past (that I can think of), but is this something different?
You wont start it with a dead battery even pull starting it. as the fuel shut off will be closed with a dead battery.
Chris

[bee utey]

If you can't find a spare battery, try running a length of twin flex from your battery along the tow rope to the towed vehicle. You could connect to your trailer plug perhaps.

[SeanP]

New battery is now in. 760CCA. Still no change on the dash in terms of lights. Checked the glow plugs, all dry so agrees with what was said about shut off likely being closed. Now with brand spanking new battery still no go. Ive ran a direct battery line to starter motor with no luck.

This thing is just as stupid to work on as the disco!

[LandyAndy]

Best way to jump start is the posative jumper lead onto the posative starter motor lug,where the main battery lead joins,not on the solenoid.Neg lead onto a suitable earth.This way the dud main battery in the vehicle wont suck the power from the donor battery,the starter motor gets first go at it;););););).
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Listen for relays opening when you turn the ignition on,they are quite power hungry,if you cant hear them check your earth connections.
Will the motor turn over???? If its locked solid it may have done fuses whilst trying to start it,check all the main fuses.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Do the headlights work??? Seperate from ignition so may help you with where you need to look for a bad earth.
Andrew

[SeanP]

Headlights work as do indicators, brake lights, reverse lights etc.

I'm hearing a decent 'clunk' from relays when key goes from acc to on. When I key further to start the park and brake lights remain on, however the diff lock light goes out. Probably unrelated, perhaps even normal but it does. The voltmeter in the car also takes a while - 20 or more seconds to come up to 12v. Ive not have a voltmeter before so is that normal?

[LandyAndy]

Sean.
Try shorting the +VE terminal on the starter motor to the trigger on the starter solenoid.MAKE SURE ITS IN NEUTRAL.With key off it should turn over but not start,with key on it will start if its able to do so.
If it wont turn over you need to check if the motor is seized by turning it over by hand,put a suitable socket on the crank bolt and see if it will move.
Is it an auto???,if so try neutral instead of park,may be a neutral start issue.

PS.I will get this thread shifted to the correct area,non Land Rover Tech chat.
Andrew

[SeanP]

I ran a piece of battery cable to the starter and didn't get anything. First time it clicked, after that nothing. So, makes me believe it has a dead starter, on top of all the other problems, or just hiding a different one.

It is a manual. We managed to get the engine to turn by towing it. But it would just turn over, not start. However some people have said that may have been to having a dead battery (cactus not just flat) in the car as it wouldn't have allowed the fuel shut off to open

[steveG]

Have you tried connecting a jumper lead from battery -ve to engine block? Slight click then nothing smacks of bad earth to me.

Steve

[SeanP]

I did for a few attempts, then went back to the original earth as it was no change.

The part that has me beat is the no coil light on the dash, no low pressure light, nothing. Only two lights on the dash are Park brake and brake light.

To confirm what I have done.
Went for a tow start with a dead battery (no lights what so ever, battery ended up having 50CCA and 5.6v) with no luck - have since been told it may require some battery to open th fuel shot offs.
Replaced with new battery.
Checked all the earths.
Cleaned batty terminals to be double sure.
Ran battery cabling to starter motor with no click or turn.
Checked I am getting 12v to starter and 12v across starter solenoids.
Removed glow plugs and they were dry.
Checked to see if the glow plugs were getting power when car was keyed to on - it wasn't. (Did this with potentiometer, negative on battery, positive on glow plug wires on engine.)
headlights and all other lifts work.

Next: re earth the car. If I can, remove the starter but it is in a dog of a position, I tried yesterday and failed. Check the ignition circuit for any faulty wiring.

Besides that, im thinking try for another tow start with the new battery now onboard.

[Aaron IIA]

Do the headlights dim slightly when you try and crank the engine? Have you measured the voltage at the starter terminals?

Aaron

[SeanP]

At the starter it was 12v with key to on. Haven't tried with it cranking or with key off, only one of me so not really possible.

I haven't had the headlights on and tried. I'll give that a go next time, what's your thoughts beyond that?

I'm going to give it a rest for today, actually go out 4wd in my disco and enjoy myself. My merc is in the shop getting a new set of headers and cats so will have a nice new upgrade tomorrow to look forward to

[Sitec]

Hi there... I'm guessing that being a 98 it is the older 4M40 engine with mechanical fuel injection... If you have no oil light etc, it points to me that an engine related fuse is blown.. Going back to basics, does it crank over at all or is it solid? If it cranks does it sound even and normal (similar to the disco when cranking)? If it turns over as it should (even sound indicating compression on all 4 cyl), then start looking at the supply to the fuel pump (both diesel and electric).. There should be an audible 'click' from the fuel injection pump when the IGN is turned on... If not then give the 'shut off solenoid' on the fuel injection pump a direct feed from the battery with a fuse in the line at the battery +VE. Test that it clicks. If it does, try a 'start'. If it does not fire up, loosen the injector supply lines. Crank again. You should get fuel dribbling/pulsing out of the loosened unions. If you have fuel here, it should fire up once tightened.. If not, you'll have to look further back. The worry is that it was 'driven home' with no power and lots of smoke..

I hate the stuff, and refuse to have it in the workshop, but.. In an unknown engine that has the chance of being rooted, have you tried giving it a small whiff of Aero Start?.... Just enough to see if it thinks about firing up..

Good luck and let us know how you go/what you find... :)

[SeanP]

Hi there... I'm guessing that being a 98 it is the older 4M40 engine with mechanical fuel injection... If you have no oil light etc, it points to me that an engine related fuse is blown.. Going back to basics, does it crank over at all or is it solid? If it cranks does it sound even and normal (similar to the disco when cranking)? If it turns over as it should (even sound indicating compression on all 4 cyl), then start looking at the supply to the fuel pump (both diesel and electric).. There should be an audible 'click' from the fuel injection pump when the IGN is turned on... If not then give the 'shut off solenoid' on the fuel injection pump a direct feed from the battery with a fuse in the line at the battery +VE. Test that it clicks. If it does, try a 'start'. If it does not fire up, loosen the injector supply lines. Crank again. You should get fuel dribbling/pulsing out of the loosened unions. If you have fuel here, it should fire up once tightened.. If not, you'll have to look further back. The worry is that it was 'driven home' with no power and lots of smoke..

I hate the stuff, and refuse to have it in the workshop, but.. In an unknown engine that has the chance of being rooted, have you tried giving it a small whiff of Aero Start?.... Just enough to see if it thinks about firing up..

Good luck and let us know how you go/what you find... :)

I've just refitted the turbo, so I'll try again. But it wasn't turning over at all under battery power. When being towed engine sounded fine.

I'll give the fuel injection pump a hit of electricity and see where it gets me. I need to short out the starter and see if there is any life there at all.

I'll report back tomorrow or Friday with more info.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/504.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/seanpurtell88/media/WP_20160113_014_zpsaq9pzl92.jpg.html)

[SeanP]

So it still doesnt crank over.

When I short the starter by placing a screw driver between the two connectors I get a spark but nothing else. No 'clink' or drive. Not a thing. I dread having to think about removing this starter. It is going to be the death of me trying to get it out.

When the key is turned headlights and interior lights dim if that makes a difference to you?

Sitec, you are correct it is the 4M40 engine. I really need another body here to help with a jump start. Ive got the wiring circuits in the Haynes manual so ill see what fuses I can swap out. Problem is the bloke has wired in an aftermarket dual battery set up, electric low pressure pump, stereo and some other stuff and his wiring is as ugly as I am. I just want to rip it all out. But id likely make it worse. I'll check over the positive and negative wiring from the battery for the approx first meter or so to see if there is much corrosion or if I'm having connections issues anywhere.

If it isn't something obvious, I'm going to have to get an auto elec around to help me soon

[LandyAndy]

Had any luck with this yet Sean???
Andrew

[SeanP]

Had any luck with this yet Sean???
Andrew

Not yet. I've checked the ignition wiring, and as far as I can tell everything is fine.

Glow plugs are getting power.

It is almost certain the starter motor is dead, and that's going to be a task, if not impossible to get it out (not joking).

I'm waiting for a sparky mate to come over and have a look. Failing that I'm going to give a proper auto elec a call.

[LandyAndy]

Go in from underneath.Undo the tailshaft from the diff and tie it up out of the way.You need extension bars and uni-joint sockets.Trytoo starter is a pig to remove too;);););) Much easier with the tailshaft out of the way.
Andrew

[Blknight.aus]

if you need a hand let me know, I'm coming up for the weekend of the 30th jan, not a biggy to chuck my diesel compression gear and some other sundry stuff in the back of the disco and come have a look for you, if you've got a bed and a couple of feeds with my name on it I can throw you a friday evening or sunday morning into the mix.

[SeanP]

if you need a hand let me know, I'm coming up for the weekend of the 30th jan, not a biggy to chuck my diesel compression gear and some other sundry stuff in the back of the disco and come have a look for you, if you've got a bed and a couple of feeds with my name on it I can throw you a friday evening or sunday morning into the mix.

That sounds pretty good to me. I'll send you a PM so we can chat off line.

[LandyAndy]

ONYA Dave.
Andrew

[SeanP]

ONYA Dave.
Andrew

Spoke with Dave on the phone and he certainly sounds like he knows what's happening. Next weekend we will get the starter out, bit of diagnostics and if required fit another starter, which should see the car going... Fingers crossed. Dave mentioned that some specific tools are needed so getting the starter out was, as crap, as I had experienced without them.

Looking forward to it!

[Svengali0]

Spoke with Dave on the phone and he certainly sounds like he knows what's happening. Next weekend we will get the starter out, bit of diagnostics and if required fit another starter, which should see the car going... Fingers crossed. Dave mentioned that some specific tools are needed so getting the starter out was, as crap, as I had experienced without them.

Looking forward to it!

jeez- just to pull a bloody starter out...special tools (shakes head).
I'm guessing we are all waiting for the update after Dave looks at it.
Hope she comes to life!

[Blknight.aus]

theres a difference between special, specific and high end.

I have a specific set of sockets and extensions that make this job easy, they're not special, you can go and buy them from lots of placed but they cost more than generic low to midrange set.

the difference between the sets comes down to it being a 1 hour job or a 6 hour job.

theres a lot more swear words in a 6 hour job.

theres more beer time after the 1 hour job.

[SeanP]

I don't mind if it is two sticks taped together, so long as it works.

Also, I dont doubt there will be a shortage of swearing.

[Sitec]

Just another angle here.. Forgetting the starter for now, does the engine turn over one full revolution by hand? If it does, I'd be trying a gentle tow/bump start. If not, it mightn't be a starter issue....

[Blknight.aus]

Swear words spoken, engines starting.

Sent from my SM-G920I using AULRO mobile app

[SeanP]

Dave made short work of it. I still couldn't get it out.

We then proceeded to light the car on fire to make it run. Gotta admit though, it worked.

So it is now running, but needs more work. So fingers crossed we can get it sorted tomorrow.

[SeanP]

So car is now running half alright. Starts okay. Runs okay. Some issues but good enough to beat to death out bush with some light duties. Once it warms up it is pretty much fine. Cold requires about 1200 rpm for about 2 mins and then it is warm enough to hold itself at idle.

Dave has some more magic to work tomorrow and then I'm sure it will be 105% golden.

[SeanP]

Well Dave worked his magic. Got the dual batteries in and sorted. Glow plugs sorted. But! We have had the faucet pump die today, so it will run until it runs out of pressure from priming the filter and then die. So I've ordered a new one.

I got my moneys worth out of Dave. He not only replaced the starter, but intake gaskets (which he made up as we couldnt buy them), helped with some electrical gremlins and some other odds and ends. He has a fairly decent set up in the back of the disco!

[Blknight.aus]

credit where its due...

There was a lot of stuff done that I didnt do, just threw words at it while I was doing other stuff,

The beer was cold, the pizza, parmy ,steak and brekkies were top notch.

I know who really came out in front on the deal. I got good food, Sean just got a sort of working paj out of the deal :)

(and I have a feeling I'll be back up that way before long)

[LandyAndy]

ONYA Dave.
Im guessing you have a new member of you fan club:cool::cool::cool::cool:.
Andrew

[Sitec]

Great work Dave. Was there anything major wrong, or was it mainly just the starter and fuelling?

[Blknight.aus]

a whole bunch of little things.

fuel filter restriction, startermotor commutator/brushes contamintaed, some gasket issues, electrical issues, fuel pump issues, glow plug circuit U/S, battery flat

For a runaway diesel its come out very well, its down a little compression wise on #1 but nothing critical, its blow by is a little excessive, it had a wastegate that was letting off early and not reseating, the idles a little sick when its cold, the alternator doesnt appear to be charging, theres a couple of very dodgy suspsension bushes, Dodgy spare and a leaking rear.

but everything we didnt get sorted this weekend is easy DIY and doesnt need top end tooling to make the repairs achievable without having to take of more bits to get access.

[SeanP]

With any luck I'll have most of the other little problems sorted out by your next trip up and then we can see how well the busted Paj works in the scrub.

Im glad Dave was there. As we chatted about, even if I got the starter replaced on my own, I didnt have the know-how on how to start the diesel in the way he did. Certainly has made me realise how much more there is to learn, especially about diesel engines.

[SeanP]

Not good news! Car was running alright, well, good enough. Was doing 10mins at a time with test runs without a problem, so we decided to take it for a trip out bush. We got about 25mins away and overheating, loss of power and dying when clutch pressed.

Had a bit of oil come out of the cap, and rocker cover. Let the car cool down for ten mins and we managed to limp it about another 5km to where I could park it. Began to really die, wouldn't rev past 2.5k rpm, when clutch pressed it began to rev up to 2.5k. So, I'm now in a position of do I cut my loses and move on, or try find a second hand donk to put in it. They are around $3k!

Open to a brain storming session. No bad ideas in brain storming,

[LandyAndy]

Sounds like it was trying to run on its own juices again.
Look up "Cost Effective Maintence" from Qld.Their stuff is really good at cleaning out dirty jap diesels.It may beyond the point of no return,their stuff wont fix mechanical faults.
Andrew

[SeanP]

Can't help but feel it is beyond a 'liquid' fix. Ive spoken with Dave, I'll try getting the thermostat out, running proper coolant instead of the watered down nothingness that is in it, a few coolant flushes then see if the overheating stops. From there, there is still the fuelling issue.

[Blknight.aus]

Im not convinced of that, with high temps reported, the compression numbers I got off of it when we did the compression test and a new turbo If it was trying to run on its own oil it would have been up and away.

I'm leaning towards it ran away harder that was advertised and the injector pump isnt a happy item or the timing has skewed. Its just not making enough "noises of death" for it to be much else

[SeanP]

Ive taken up Andys idea and have ordered some oil flush, coolant flush and fuel system cleaner. Only 150 bucks so figured why not.

Tonight in the carpark ill pull the batteries out, take them home to charge, and see if I can get it home - limp style tomorrow arvo.

[LandyAndy]

Their oil flush is brilliant on dirty diesels,follow the directions for the first clean,after that its a treatment each service.
We did a mates HJZ 4.2 toyota before he shifted to Derby.He rang me when he got there asking where to buy it from.His tojo went better than ever,used less fuel and no oil for the trip.
I could tell the difference when I used it on the trytoo.
They make some strong claims on their website,from what Ive seen I dont think there is alot of BS there.
Andrew

[SeanP]

Hah, ah good times! Pajero started quickly this arvo. But it was billowing white smoke, huge amounts, was making me laugh actually. I could see a bit come from under the bonnet so had a look at I noticed a heap of oil near and behind he turbo. So I pulled the intake off and the turbo is dead, again.

The radiator is still full of coolant, no change in colour, expansion is still at the right level of water, and the oil cap shows no signs of water.

I'll buy another turbo and go from there. If the engine is dead, I'll part the car out.

Speaking with Dave, I've come to the conclusion either there is so much blow by (potentially) that it is drowning the turbo, or I've blocked the return line on the turbo and it is drowning. Causing the compressor to crap it. Which would then fail, the turbo with oil. I need to tow the car home tomorrow and have another look. At least this isn't 'bad' news as a turbo is far cheaper than an engine. So stay tuned for more horrible Pajero exploits...

[rar110]

Too much oil pressure to the turbo can cause it to bypass the seal to the air intake. Are you sure the turbo is dead?

[SeanP]

Too much oil pressure to the turbo can cause it to bypass the seal to the air intake. Are you sure the turbo is dead?

Im certain. There is so much play in the shaft it would be like putting your finger in a toilet roll and banging it around - literally.

Im towing the car home tonight and will get to the task of getting it apart again. At least I know how to now :p

One more turbo and then if it is dead, Ill see about taking it to the range.

[SeanP]

So, the turbo is back out and I've cleaned up the PCV as some Pajero fellas recommended it as it can help with blow by. Both the oil inlet and outlet to the turbo seemed fine with no restrictions. So when new turbo arrives, I'll dump the oil and filter, refill and replace, run the cost effective maintenance oil flush through it with the coolant cleaner, then drop oil and filter again and see how it carriers on from then

[LandyAndy]

You reminded me of another mod I did to the Trytoo.That pcv valve,firstly I just let the hose hang down the engine bay.It was creating a mess so I plumbed it into the chassis rail.Never seemed to drip excessively,BUT we lived at the end of a 15km gravel road:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted: Guessing the dust stuck to it,got washed out in winter/after beach fishing chassis cleans.
Andrew

[Sitec]

Hello again. just a sigestion here before spending any more money. Take a step back, and think about what's going on.. There's a reason the thing stopped in the first place. Thats where you start. The second turbo is now toast... The engine is running hot, and lacking power.. You don't need a turbo on that engine to make it run. Loose the turbo for now, cap the oil supply and return, and look to why its not running correctly. Oil pressure.. Put a mechanical gauge on it. What's the PSI reading when cranking, when running cold, when running hot? As someone else said, is the oil PRV jammed. Too much pressure can do harm too... Turbo seals, hydraulic followers forced open too far causing valves not to close etc (bends valves causing misfire and marks the top of the piston)... If the oil pressure is normal, move on. If not, find out why.... Timing... Start again with this, as per book. All marks must line up. Crank to cam, fuel injection pump etc.. This is critical to a diesel. Once done, check it again having rotated the engine at least 360 deg by hand first. Moving on.. If it is holding its coolant and not loosing any, great. No cracks! Good to hear. It still got hot.. So we now continue looking for the cause... Viscous fan.. Is it loose and does it spin freely? It shouldn't . There should be resistance... If its loose its knackered. Thermostat... Remove it and check it in a saucepan of water. Record its opening temp and see if it matches the number stamped on it. Do NOT leave it out! Next, radiator.. Check the core. Remove the rad if you have to and flush it properly.. Good flow? Great. Next.. Water pump. How's it driven? Cam belt or fan belt? Does it feel ok? Is it actually working? Has the impeller fallen off??? (Stranger things have happened..). All good? Hoses.. Has one collapsed internally? Is the heater supply ok or air locked? Moving on.. If the cooling system is good, the next heat cause is over fuelling or lack of air.. Is the air inlet clean? Intercooler pipes? Any rags left in there? Sounds silly, but follow the path the air takes and make sure there are no delaminated hoses or obstructions. This brings us back to timing and fuel amounts.. Have you had the injectors out? If not, do so. Remove them, invert them and reconnect the high pressure line to each injector.. Stand back and get someone to crank the engine. What are the spray patterns like? Should be a uniform spray from all.. A very fine mist (atomised fuel). Any drips, jets or squirts? If so they're knackered. (Take heed here. Atomised diesel under high pressure is very dangerous. Can't empathise this enough. You are viewing spray patterns only, from at least a few meters away. This is not the ideal way to test, but it does mean you can do it and don't have to pay someone to do it and then tell you that they're shagged). Injectors ok? Cool. Refit. So, now we've covered fuel, timing, cooling, air supply, oil pressure, there's not too much left. If you have done all of the above correctly, it should fire up. Crank it over with the fuel pump wire off. Does it sound even? If not then there's a compression issue. If it does, great. Reconect the fuel pump wire. Does it now fire up? If yes, what does it sound like? Smooth? Rough? Misfire? Colour and amount of smoke out of the manifold? If its running, and running nicely, monitor the coolant levels and pressures. Monitor the oil pressure. Let it idle, bring it up to temp. That'll keep u busy for a while.. ;)

[SeanP]

Cheers. The only part of that i dont understand is the injector test you've described. Ill start ticking through that list over the next week or so. Thanks for the advice

[Sitec]

A while back when I still lived in the UK, if we were working on a tractor 'on site' that had a fuel problem.. Knock, misfire, overheating etc, one of the things that was checked was the injectors. We used to undo and remove the high pressure line to the injectors, then remove the injector (two nuts on studs with Perkins etc). Once out and after a visual check, the injector was then reconnected to its high pressure supply line, but facing out of the engine not into it. The engine was cranked and each injector watched to see that it was atomising and spraying correctly. Its not the ideal way of testing them, nor is it normally recommended, as high pressure atomised diesel is dangerous in close contact, and very flammable. It is however a way of testing the injectors without having to send them away and spend money... especially when working on an engine with an unknown problem. Be mindful that the tip of an injector is very finely engineered , and should be treated like a halogen globe.. Not touched, not dropped, not rested against anything etc etc. have a look on YouTube at diesel injector testing, spray patterns etc. you're looking for a very fine spray, no jets of fuel, no dribbles etc..

[SeanP]

I understand now. When you said invert them it confused me. All makes sense though.

[SeanP]

Car has low oil pressure, so I decided to bin it. An oil pump, plus all of the time and other bits to fix it, and then, not really know what other damage has occurred I have let it lie.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

[LandyAndy]

Car has low oil pressure, so I decided to bin it. An oil pump, plus all of the time and other bits to fix it, and then, not really know what other damage has occurred I have let it lie.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

I guess you have learnt a fair bit about diesel motors whilst trying to get this thing going.Low oil pressure is likely to be worn/damaged bottom end bearings seeing it had a run away.
Bring on the next project:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew