Vinyl Music

[one_iota]

I have spent the last decade collecting and listening to digital music. New CD players, Amps and Speakers in pursuit of sonic perfection. and a shirt load of money on CD's.

A couple of weekends ago I unpacked 200 LP's from moulding boxes and realised that I had forgotten some good music and some great memories. I have neglected 20 years of music collection because it wasn't digital. 8O

So I went searching for a decent turntable expecting to find nothing and found to my surprise that they are still made....so I bought a Rega turntable and to my delight the ancient music sounds better than the pale CD reproductions. Such warmth and sound stage even with my failing hearing.

Am I deluded and if not when will people start producing analogue recordings again?

[WOLLAPIT85]

I don't believe that anything really beats a good vinyl pressing.
Even with afew nicks and crackles, it can sound larger than life and
sometimes cds are just so clinical it annoys me.

[MacMan]

I have a 70's pressing of Kind of Blue by Miles Davis - the curious thing is that the tape for the original plate etcher ran fast and most of the vinyl copies actually play ever so slightly slow because of it, sounding a little seedier and sleepier. I have it on CD also, but the vinyl is the one I make time to listen to.

Same thing with Olé Coltrane by John Coltrane, Doolittle by the Pixes, and a whole heap of Tom Waits. Also have two copies of the Clockwork Orange soundtrack.

[Outlaw]

hmmm so what's vinyl? and what's a turntable??? 8O

hehe :twisted: just kidding... i used to have a great collection, just don't remember what happened to them, but Bat out of Hell on vinyl was great pumping through the house when i was younger style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[planb]

i was in heaven when i found my oldmans collection of 200 odd records under the house... the music on vinyl has a certain "warmth" to it

now all i need is a turntable that works again style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[DiscoStew]

Vinyl is becoming more popular but mainly produced for dance and alternative music. Many people prefer the tactileness (is that a word? :oops: ) of handling the record and operating the turntable. But I don't think we will ever see the return of the vertical, in-car turntable.

Cheers
Paul

[one_iota]

Originally posted by MacMan
I have a 70's pressing of Kind of Blue by Miles Davis - the curious thing is that the tape for the original plate etcher ran fast and most of the vinyl copies actually play ever so slightly slow because of it, sounding a little seedier and sleepier. I have it on CD also, but the vinyl is the one I make time to listen to.

Same thing with Olé Coltrane by John Coltrane, Doolittle by the Pixes, and a whole heap of Tom Waits. Also have two copies of the Clockwork Orange soundtrack.

I'm listening to Mile's "Bitches Brew" astounding (and a little challenging) also Weather Report's "I Sing the Body Electric".

Pat Metheny's "As Falls Witchita, So Falls Witchita Falls" evacuates the neighbours thinking there has been an eartquake 8O

I haven't played Cream Wheels of Fire Live at the Filmore yet. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[one_iota]

Originally posted by WOLLAPIT85
I don't believe that anything really beats a good vinyl pressing.
Even with afew nicks and crackles, it can sound larger than life and
sometimes cds are just so clinical it annoys me.

Snap Crackle and Pop is called character in audiophile circles.

But I am surprised at how well the vinyl has stood up to years of abuse on cheap turntables: still delivering some good sounds.

[one_iota]

Originally posted by planb
i was in heaven when i found my oldmans collection of 200 odd records under the house... the music on vinyl has a certain "warmth" to it

now all i need is a turntable that works again style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

Well I started at low/mid range:

Rega turntable P2 ($750) Rega moving magnet cartridge ($150) and NAD phono pre-amp ($200).

The sky is the limit when it comes to gear 8O

It's great to have an electronic accessory that doesn't come with another remote nor a digital clock attached. The installation and operating instructions are contained on a single A4 sheet of paper. It has an On and Off switch:


Series 1 disco versus Series 3 Disco. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif :roll:

BTW Rega is made in the UK and the electrics are not by Lucas :wink:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:green">what other gear you got the turn table plugged into?</span>

[broonski]

Originally posted by one_iota

So I went searching for a decent turntable expecting to find nothing and found to my surprise that they are still made....so I bought a Rega turntable and to my delight the ancient music sounds better than the pale CD reproductions. Such warmth and sound stage even with my failing hearing.

Am I deluded and if not when will people start producing analogue recordings again?

analogue sounds so much better because you're hearing a continuous sound, unlike digital which uses a sample rate (takes a sample of the sound waves every so often, i can't remember what the general sample rate is off the top of my head :oops: )

as long as the whole recording path is analogue, and the medium the information is stored on is analogue (ie. vinyl or analogue tape) you will always hear a warmer sound that is true to the original sound source.

i LOVE analogue, but unfortunately it will never become as widespread as it once was. digital has taken over in such a HUGE way simply because of money...

it's a LOT cheaper to buy and manufacture digital equipment!!! eg. studio analogue mixing console $10 000 (and thats a really cheap one), studio digital console (which has in built effects etc AND lcd display) about $4 000 (and thats a pretty good quality one)

and now there is only one company in Australia that manufactures analogue tape, and they only make it to order... however, you can still get CDs pressed to vinyl, but it doesn't have the same sound quality as music that was recorded wholely in analogue...

anyway, sorry to ramble on... (i'm an audio engineer... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif )

cheers,
bryce

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">thats not rambling at all.....
it was very informative information.....

we are all living a faster life these days at the cost of quality....



it is quicker to skip tracks and to copy and play etc. digital music than it was to do so with analogue......remember having to lift the needle off and get it between tracks? and missing?
remember recording records on to tape at single speed?
remeber having the time to do all these things?



we are simply rushing (and still not going fast enough) to get to our graves...</span>

[D110V8D]

I once had a huge collection of early to mid 70's funk/Jazz and fusion stuff.

I still kick myself for selling it all. :oops: At the time I had to. To buy the same records now would cost alot of money. I used to go to record fairs and markets etc and pick up stuff (thats very collectable these days) for $2 or less.

I once got a copy of Donald Birds "Ethiopian Nights" for 50 cents at a market in Byron Bay. Unheard of at that price now. If you know this style of music you'll know how "pricey" some of it can be. Take Kool and the gangs 1st album for example. Let alone old 45's and such.

Anyway Vinyl records kick ass and I will always love the sound of a good LP. I would love to start collectin again but one can only have so many hobbies that cost $$$$. I have re-gained some of the albums I used to have, but on CD. It's not the same. :cry:

[Redback]

Excellent stuff guys i got heaps of vinyl records (nearly 800) from 50s to the 90s Leadbelly to Franky and Zeppelin to Robert Johnson, i'm a big blues and Rock fan with Sinatra thrown in too.

Have been converting some to CD but found that you can download alot of the stuff i have from the net.

Wish i had the money for a decent turntable, the Technics will do for now.

Baz.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">technics make decent turntables......


just ask any dj what they used to use before cd players.....</span>

[one_iota]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:green">what other gear you got the turn table plugged into?</span>

It's a modest collection:

NAD C 305 integrated amp

B&W 605 speakers (on "proper" speaker stands and bi-wired with decent cable)

A Thomson DVD/CD player (OK for DVD's but a bit ordinary for CD's). The DVD runs the Grundig widescreen TV.

A crappy Rotel AM/FM tuner

And a pair of AKG wireless headphones for when the neighbours get "narky".

I also use decent connection cables to the amp from the DVD and the phono pre-amp.

Now my brothers gear is to make one drool: Music Fidelity stuff including a valve pre amp, Orpheus speakers, and a Rega P3 turntable with a Garrott Bros moving coil cartridge.

[one_iota]

Originally posted by broonski

analogue sounds so much better because you're hearing a continuous sound, unlike digital which uses a sample rate (takes a sample of the sound waves every so often, i can't remember what the general sample rate is off the top of my head :oops: )



Well I guess that the ears work in analogue so all that makes good sense. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">hey...what are the chances of borrowing your brothers turntable....?

im running a pair of aragon palladiums through a pair of martin logan monoliths......the turntable should blend in just beautiful.......</span>

[broonski]

Originally posted by DEFENDERZOOK


we are all living a faster life these days at the cost of quality....

we are simply rushing (and still not going fast enough) to get to our graves...

unfortunately that is too true DEFENDERZOOK... and there's not much we can do about it...

cheers,
bryce

[broonski]

Originally posted by one_iota+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(one_iota)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-broonski

analogue sounds so much better because you're hearing a continuous sound, unlike digital which uses a sample rate (takes a sample of the sound waves every so often, i can't remember what the general sample rate is off the top of my head :oops: )



Well I guess that the ears work in analogue so all that makes good sense. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]

lol, thats all that counts!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

cheers,
bryce

[broonski]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">technics make decent turntables......


just ask any dj what they used to use before cd players.....</span>

technics do make quite a good turntable!!! all the real dj's (if a dj is real... :roll: :wink: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ) still use turntables!

cheers,
bryce

[VladTepes]

I have spoken to a lot of people about audio stuff and have always asked that contentious question - vinyl or cd ?

The vast majority of them have told me that the vinyl record does not and can not reproduce sound any better than a CD. No vinyl proponent has been able to explain the logic behind their assertion that vinyl is better either.

I think it must be a bit like the old "How much to spend on an amp" question.

While most people will hear the difference in sound quality (not quantity style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ) between a $300 and $3,000 amp; the % of the population able to tell the difference between that and a $10,000 amp is LESS THAN 0.5% (or so I read somewhere).

Its the law of diminishing returns.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">a high end audio amplifier will give cleaner purer sound.....


try this at home......turn on your stereo...and with no input ie. no radio, cassette, cd etc.....turn the volume up to maximum.......

what do you hear....?
a hiss?
that is some of the noise you get from the electronics in the amp that has to compete with the sound you wish to hear......
now if you also run your cd player (for example)....that will also give some more noise......


once you listen to high-end its hard to listen to a standard system as it just sounds wrong.....
if you have never heard the difference you wont know any better....it will all sound good......</span>

[one_iota]

Originally posted by VladTepes
I

Its the law of diminishing returns.

Then add the deterioration of hearing. The way of all flesh beyond the age of 25.

But there is more to music than sound and there are many steps and components in the process between the actual sound and the reproduction.

The instrument, the microphone the recording device, the reproduction medium and process so on and so forth until you spin it on your system.

So it boils down to an educated ear.

For me it is a tactile experience that forgives the snap crackle and pop and a bit of mains hum for the benefit of dynamic range and stereo imaging.

And then there is the component called the brain which at the end of all that technology has the final say.

[one_iota]

And then there is the debate about Valve versus Solid State Amps 8O

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by one_iota
And then there is the debate about Valve versus Solid State Amps 8O





<span style="color:blue">i think this depends on ones patience......</span>

[broonski]

sounds like you know your stuff there, one_iota!!! good stuff!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>While most people will hear the difference in sound quality (not quantity style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ) between a $300 and $3,000 amp; the % of the population able to tell the difference between that and a $10,000 amp is LESS THAN 0.5% (or so I read somewhere).
[/b][/quote]

unfortunately thats true... not many people can tell the difference and, as one_iota said, it does all come down to an educated ear.

cheers,
bryce

[VladTepes]

I don't know about an educated ear but I believe I have an educated rear coz people are always called me a smart-ar$e :wink:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by VladTepes
I don't know about an educated ear but I believe I have an educated rear coz people are always called me a smart-ar$e :wink:




<span style="color:blue">yes....but have you ever wondered why they say it to your face.....</span>

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:red">here is a nice little setup......</span>



http://www.arduman.com/aa/Resimler/john/syst.jpg

[one_iota]

The speakers look like electrostatic jobs. I heard some Acoustats a few decades ago and they conveyed the sound stage very well: very bright and vibrant if lacking a little in bass. Maybe things have moved on from those days. Electrostatics are still a rare device compared with the usual horn type.

Shed some detail Tony.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">hey...what are the chances of borrowing your brothers turntable....?

im running a pair of aragon palladiums through a pair of martin logan monoliths......the turntable should blend in just beautiful.......</span>





<span style="color:green">i guess you didnt read this......

also bring your favourite records and spend the weekend here......</span>

[one_iota]

I might have to do that.

My system is suffering from "mains hum" on phono mode. The turntable doesn't have an earth. Buggered if I know :roll:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">does it hum when the motor is not running.....?</span>

[Pedro_The_Swift]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">does it hum
"when the motor is not running.....?"</span>

never heard that one---- style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif


OK,,, clever vinyl people,,,

how do I go about getting all my wonderfull records onto CD's :?:

[one_iota]

Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift


OK,,, clever vinyl people,,,

how do I go about getting all my wonderfull records onto CD's :?:

At the risk of being labelled as a "clever vinyl person" (which would be a total misrepresentation of the facts 8O ) there is software available including the eponymous http://www.ripvinyl.com

[abaddonxi]

I've got my parent's original thick vinyl american pressing of Kind of Blue.
The pressing.
Bad thing is that it's been scratched and warped. Looks nice, but.

CDs sample at 44.1khz.

afaik the decision to sample at this rate was made so that the equivalent quantity of music could be recorded on a cd not equivalent quality.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm

We were sold a dud.

The depressing way to check out the equivalent of this is set the monitor on your computer to 16bit colour and see the difference between that and what you usually run - probably 32bit.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by one_iota

At the risk of being labelled as a "clever vinyl person"


mate,,,

I might have pidgeon-holed 'ya

but never labelled!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif