Troglodytes

[MrLandy]

Happy New Year to all!

At the grave risk of inciting the one-eyed digital agers into a frenzy, or a grease monkey rebellion, I thought I'd raise a discussion around the cultural (not mechanical) attributes of Defenders v Land Rover Spaceships on the horizon such as Discovery Sport 😳

Perhaps given that we will not see the release of the new Defender in 2016 as previously promised, we can make 2016 the year of intercultural Land Rover discussion here at AULRO? What are the various cultural attributes of being a Land Rover devotee?

In terms of the escapeist tendencies of seeking 'nature' (as in what might be considered troglodyte Defender owner habitat) away from the pressures of the city, what is the consensus on why we as a sub-species enjoy our 4WD vehicles so much? And more specifically what is the cultural basis for Land Rover ownership?

And to really throw a spanner into the works (or should that be a quantum micro chip?), surely if the cultural reason for 4WD ownership is to 'return to nature' or 'troglodyte landscape', a Defender, or perhaps a series Land Rover is the best vehicle fit for purpose? Doesn't the humidicrib of a climate controlled hovercraft defeat the cultural experience?

🙃

[Toxic_Avenger]

I guess I'll start this off...
My land rover is a vehicle that both gets me to places that are off the beaten track, and also is a vehicle through which I can learn new skills, and develop my own knowledge about the car, and modify it as a showcase of what I'm capable of.
While I don't flee to the hills (and my troglodite cave) whenever I get the chence, oftentimes I'm working on the car to make it more unique.

As far as the culture side of things, Its a good aspect of the brand, and one that I enjoy. It's different, definately quirky, and the owners tend to stick together. I like that I can spark a conversation with someone who has a defender, and throw a wave at them, and chances are they are on the sme page as myself.

As for the 'space ships' of other models, all I can say is would I drive one? Heck yes. Would I love it as much as the dirty old deefer, probably not. I guess I'm at the life stage where my idea of adventure is to get out there underprepared and have a blast from what I can discover and overcome, rather than just travel in the lap of luxury and not experience any kind of hardship. Ask me the same question in 30 years, and I'll probably be driving a 800 series landcruiser or Discovery 17- complete with 8G internet and holographic dash-mounted tour guide for a running commentary of the french line, which is a completely sealed road :p

[4wheeler]

Those with a series vehicle or a Defender certainly get back to nature owning one that's for sure! If it rains, nature pours into the foot wells or drips on your head. You also get the nature experience as you spend time fixing your vehicle on the roadside or backyard or waiting for the tow truck.

Please note the above comments are made purely in jest and the above mentioned vehicles to my knowledge, are totally reliable and watertight.

I own my Defender because I like Defenders. I try not to over think it too much otherwise I might cross over to the dark side and purchase a Discovery Sport!

[Vin Rouge]

The Defender. It's useful, which it what the Wilkes brothers planned it to be.

It will take me to and from more or less anywhere. It'll carry or tow pretty much anything I need to move. It'll do it in a style that is completely at home whether that be outside Buckingham Palace, in a farm yard or wading through water. Clean or filthy it's accepted everywhere.

Above all it's one of the very few vehicles (perhaps the VW camper does it too) that promotes friendship. Someone calculated, I know not how, that the first vehicle a third of the world's population see is a Land Rover Defender.

Mine has taken my wife and I all around Australia, and before that in the UK, it was used to help plant a forest, move everything from rocks to musical instruments, rescue people from floods, drag out bushes and climb mountains in Wales. The cherry on the cake was meeting new people who wanted to tell us their Land Rover stories.

A Defender opens doors! Try that in an anonymous jelly-mold.

[AndyG]

I bought my Defender, my first 4wd, largely due to the Aulro comeradi, plus it's unparalleled capability, plan one was an Isuzu.

[Chops]

My first 4x4 was a series 3 swb.
Every time I went somewhere in it, someone spoke to me. Be it they were happy to see the car, or just trying to take the **** out of it,,, there was always chatter.
Then I owned two Toyo's. Nothing, nada, zip. No one wants to talk to you, unless they see a Landy somewhere near by and want to bag it to someone.
Bought a D1 then, V8 auto,, well, such bliss on the road, and in the bush. Total comfort
D2,,, same, only better again.
Now, the Puma. Hummm, :angel:
Ok, not as comfy, especially according to the wife ;), but I'm a happy camper :D. If it wasn't for the fact we want to do long term/time camping trips, and I didn't want to carry so much weight to deal with these trips, I'd probably be happier with a D.

I guess though, ultimately, with the D's, I'd be starting to get worried about the electric/comp parts and their longevity.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Just because I like visiting nature doesnt mean I necessarily want to interact with it on the trip:D

[rick130]

Just because I like visiting nature doesnt mean I necessarily want to interact with it on the trip:D


On that note, maybe 90/110/130 drivers are actually motorcyclists who can't balance, or just need some carrying capacity ? :D



Having spent a number of days traversing various tracks in the East and West MacDonnells riding shotgun in a D2 last week, yes it was quiet and relatively comfy and even environment proof, at least until I couldn't stand the hermetic environment any more and lowered the window.

Aaah.

The wind, the smells, the sounds.

Then I got in trouble at lunch time as in true Land Rover fashion it had dragged dust past the rear door seals.
Everything in the back was coated in that lovely, fine layer of red powder.

I felt quite at home...... :angel:

[Bohica]

The first four wheel drive I drove, was a series 2, courtesy of the Australian Army, in 1984.
Tjhe first four wheel drive I bought was a Toyota BJ40, in 1988. Nice car, went through the Grampians with it.
Lomg break to 2014, mt wife bought a 1991 Patrol for the eldest, I spent the summer gettinmg it road worthy, an endeavour that was both painful and enjoyable. The road worthy paper work was sent in on a Wednesday, The car was tolen the following Saturday and written off. I jhad taken pout 3rd party property, just in case. This included fire and theft. So I got a payout that just about covered the cost of the vehicle and the bits to get it to road worthy.
I did like the small bit of low range 4wd we did in the Brisbane Ranges. About 5 kms all up.
So I decided to buy a 4wd.
I wanted a 4 cylinder diesel for economy, the 6 cylinder patrols or cruisers were not an option.
I ended up looking at the Pajero (pronounced paherro, slang for ******) the rodeo or the Discovery.
Hmm, The Discovery looks the best. All the reports indicate that the Land Rover Discovery is a very capable 4wd. Not so for the ****** or the rowdayoh.
Besides, I'm English, I grew up in a city in England that was home to 22SAS. (Hereford)
After evaluating the options and taking into account the English bias, I decided on a Land Rover Discovery. The Defenders are just too expensive!
The phrase that resonated through my mind was the "very capable four wheel drive" I'd like to get into places, and more importantly, get out of them. A mate of mine who laughed at me for choosing a Land Rover Discovery pulled up a review page on the Disco. It shut him up.
I started the process of looking at LR Discos, I jpoined this forum and started reading. The 300tdi is better that the 200tdi. The Disco2 does not have CDL!.
I test drove more than several cars. One D1, near Ballarat, I could not get the transfer case to lock the diff, (rusty I guess). I drove one from Geelong, the coolant was plain water, car ran ok, but no CDL, and the coolant looked wrong. I flew to Adelaide to see one, took it to TR, it failed. Three amigos, leaking PAS, etc.
From what I have researched, it became apparent that a D2a would be the best car for me. Not the D3, too many coimputers between the driver and the wheels.
In late July I sold the family Tarago, so I had a few more dollars for the car.
I ended up buying a Landrover Discovery 2a.

Why the Land Rover? basically it is a "very capable four wheel drive" and I like that aspect. And it looks good. It looks classy.

Cheers Bo

[Andy130]

As someone who has owned a '98 130 defender for less than 2 months, and driven it only twice ( first was noosa to Sydney, second time was from my driveway to the garage where i'm rebuilding it )... let me to talk about the culture of defender ownership :D

There is something satisfying about putting a stake in the sand in regards to technology - no computers - '98 was the last year for this as far as I know?

There is also a lot to be said for becoming familiar with a vehicle by turning spanners on it.

So I would chalk those two points up as ' self reliance' and say that is important on the defender cultural scale.

Second, the majority of my drive was at night - but at daybreak I was on the highway near heatherbrae ( near newcastle) and within 15 minutes I got two waves from two other defenders -which I returned.

So, I would say 'camaraderie' is also very high on the cultural scale.

i'm rebuilding my defender for two reasons :

1. to travel Australia
2. to know how to fix it when it goes wrong

To point 2 - how embarrassing would it be to own a defender and not know how to fix the basic mechanical components ?

As technology moves on, I think perhaps the new defenders and their owners may depart from this inherit ideology?

There is more to the intrinsic nature of the defender and its ownership - someone else can do a better job of explaining that bit:D

[Toxic_Avenger]

2. to know how to fix it when it goes wrong

To point 2 - how embarrassing would it be to own a defender and not know how to fix the basic mechanical components ?

As technology moves on, I think perhaps the new defenders and their owners may depart from this inherit ideology?

There is more to the intrinsic nature of the defender and its ownership - someone else can do a better job of explaining that bit:D

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

Some understand electricity and wiring, and some that lean towards the spanners and hammers. I've had plenty of experience with both, and I guess it's just a matter of finding what the problem is before it can be fixed- irrespective of whether it's electrical or mechanical. This could be cleaning out the waterlogged sensor, blown fuse or melted wire, or replacing sheared bolts, blown gaskets or coolant leaks.

A mechanical dunce would be screwed with a non operational S1 just as much as they would be with a RR Vogue... so I guess the argument on one versus the other is more a matter of what tools you want / need to throw at the problem.

[Bohica]

A mechanical dunce would be screwed with a non operational S1 just as much as they would be with a RR Vogue... so I guess the argument on one versus the other is more a matter of what tools you want / need to throw at the problem.

At the beginning, are not we all mechanical dunces? I learned the basics from my dad and the gregory's manuals. Now I learn a lot from the internet, in particular this forum.

[Toxic_Avenger]

At the beginning, are not we all mechanical dunces? I learned the basics from my dad and the gregory's manuals. Now I learn a lot from the internet, in particular this forum.

That is not untrue.
Gets back to my first post here where I believe my vehicle is a vehicle through which I can learn / develop new skills.

I guess I've just made all my mistakes and learned a bit on other vehicles before this one... that being said I've made some mistakes on my 90's build, but no monumental ****ups which have been show stoppers.

I once bought an engine out of a written off vehicle- had grand plans of building a highly strung, high revving non turbo V6 for hill climb use.
By the time I stripped it and found half the cams on the DOHC were scratched and pitted, bent cam caps, and scored bores, I thought it best to leave that project alone. It was good to see and hold the parts of an engine in all their oily / greasy goodness, but as for living a new life with a student's budget, all hope was lost. But the good thing was I learned something, and was the better for it out the other end.
But to this day, automatic transmissions and rotary engines are still a mystery to me :confused:

[Col 110]

Every time I went somewhere in it, someone spoke to me. Be it they were happy to see the car, or just trying to take the **** out of it,,, there was always chatter.


I find this a great part of owning a Defender - I get both - especially the latter - but I enjoy the banter. Especially the joke about how great my Defender looks for it's age - hmmn - it is only 3 months old!


How embarrassing would it be to own a defender and not know how to fix the basic mechanical components ?

Surely that was said in jest :cool:

So funny that you need to know how to fix a Defender to own it :D

I have no skills - my 1st 4WD --> Whoops - I missed that line in the contract - however I'll do my best to learn as I go!

Cheers,
Col.

[Andy130]

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

Some understand electricity and wiring, and some that lean towards the spanners and hammers. I've had plenty of experience with both, and I guess it's just a matter of finding what the problem is before it can be fixed- irrespective of whether it's electrical or mechanical. This could be cleaning out the waterlogged sensor, blown fuse or melted wire, or replacing sheared bolts, blown gaskets or coolant leaks.

A mechanical dunce would be screwed with a non operational S1 just as much as they would be with a RR Vogue... so I guess the argument on one versus the other is more a matter of what tools you want / need to throw at the problem.


lol, yes this is all true. I guess that I just dont want the reliance on a computer to work out what the problem is.

[Andy130]

I find this a great part of owning a Defender - I get both - especially the latter - but I enjoy the banter. Especially the joke about how great my Defender looks for it's age - hmmn - it is only 3 months old!


Surely that was said in jest :cool:

So funny that you need to know how to fix a Defender to own it :D

I have no skills - my 1st 4WD --> Whoops - I missed that line in the contract - however I'll do my best to learn as I go!

Cheers,
Col.

haha, I have no skills either Col . Like I said, Ive owned this defender ( my first) for less than 2 months - i'm learning as I do the rebuild - it came apart easy enough....lets see if I can get it back together :-)

[Chops]

Something else that I seem to notice, is when you see cars well kitted out, I tend to look for battle scars.
On a Defer, its character/toughness/used, on a Disco, well, it just seems a shame, but at least you can see it gets used :).
They are no less tougher than the Defer of course, but they do look good, and always seems a shame when you see them scared up.

[ramblingboy42]

mmmm , sounds like you guys may be looking for the Richard Bach of Land Rovers.

I wonder if he has owned one?

I might just try and find out.

[MrLandy]

An intriguing insight ramblingboy, cheers. Indeed, the 'Illusion' we are creating for ourselves is perhaps becoming the real? No doubt Bach would offer an enlightening perspective on 'roving' as a modus operandi...

[DiscoMick]

Our 95 Disco 300Tdi was great, took us lots of places, gave us some grief, but I learnt a lot from it.
Our Defender is more modern than the Disco was, but has a much longer history. It makes me smile, people wave, Asian tourists take selfies with it, its supremely capable and feels like it is meant to be used. Plus, my wife loves it and urges me to wave back - how good is that!

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[LandyAndy]

Anybody short on tee shirts.
https://teespring.com/discovery-heroes-2#pid=389&cid=100029&sid=front
Andrew

[Disco Muppet]

Battered cars are Battered cars Chops, doesn't matter what they are :cool:
Unless it's a Camel Trophy vehicle.
Now that's character.

[MrLandy]

Anybody short on tee shirts.
https://teespring.com/discovery-heroes-2#pid=389&cid=100029&sid=front
Andrew

Far too stylish for us Defender Troglodytes 😉 but we can let them live in hope.

[MrLandy]

Our 95 Disco 300Tdi was great, took us lots of places, gave us some grief, but I learnt a lot from it.
Our Defender is more modern than the Disco was, but has a much longer history. It makes me smile, people wave, Asian tourists take selfies with it, its supremely capable and feels like it is meant to be used. Plus, my wife loves it and urges me to wave back - how good is that!

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

Yes it's certainly a cultural aspect specific to Defenders...they spark conversation between strangers and camaraderie like no other vehicle. What a relief in our fast homogenising world! As Vin Rouge says,


A Defender opens doors! Try that in an anonymous jelly-mold.

[Disco Muppet]

My anonymous jelly mould has had plenty of people come up and chat to me about it :cool:

[Toxic_Avenger]

I still don't wave to discos.
There.
I said it.
:tease:

[Col 110]

I still don't wave to discos.
There.
I said it.
:tease:

So - if they wave at me I wave back - I have had one (only one) wave at me - and I am a sucker for a wave so it was returned :D

[steane]

I'm not sure why a Defender owner = cave dwelling human. I'm not really getting it.

In my opinion there are more than a few 2.2 owners that are more at home in a wine bar than the front bar and plenty that seem to fizz at the bum hole at the very notion of owning what is an automotive barbarian. Another glass of Jasper Hill Shiraz will restore their calm facade.

There are one or two 300TDi owners that are much the same ;)

I suspect there is more fun to be had comparing nouveau 2.2 Deefer owners with other Deefer owners.

The Disco owners know what they want, ie all the comfy stuff the Deefer doesn't offer!

And Muppet, "anonymous jelly mould" so sums up the Disco design! In my twisted view at least :p

[manofaus]

Thats awesome.....

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

[MrLandy]

Only 10? 😉 Indeed binary is a significant cultural indicator. At first glance one might presume that the tech savvy modernist landscaper might have the binary edge and that the troglodyte might not. Yet binary is as old as the hills, simply meaning combined of two parts. It might even be argued that a Defender owner has a stronger binary relationship with their Defender than any other human and vehicle.

Only 10? ...indeed the limitation of binary 1&0 in the context of intercultural diversity and roving in general as a modus operandi might surely be the clearest example of the severe limitations imposed by techno filtering (and the lack of infinity as a possibility) vs actually being there, less- or even un-mediated by binary data (for example by winding the window down and conversing with others in the world, including the wind and rain).

Connectivity comes in many forms. Perhaps here lays the nub of this discussion?