LPG Conversion

[Ekkers]

Hi Guys
Looking for advice on the merits of lpg conversion to Series 2 Disco. The price of fuel is killing me
Cheers
Ekkers

[p38arover]

If you find anyone who has done it on as S2 Disco, let us know. I've been looking for a while for a friend.

It doesn't matter where the gasfitter is.

Ron

[pgf]

Have had some good experience with lpgas1.
www.lpgas1.com.au.
Currently mine runs beatifully on LPG at 40% the coost of ULP.

PGF

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by pgf
Have had some good experience with lpgas1.
www.lpgas1.com.au.
Currently mine runs beatifully on LPG at 40% the coost of ULP.

PGF



<span style="color:blue">
will the savings on fuel bills balance out the cost of installation before 2008?</span>

[one_iota]

[quote=pgf]Have had some good experience with lpgas1.
www.lpgas1.com.au.
Currently mine runs beatifully on LPG at 40% the coost of ULP.

PGF



<span style="color:blue">
will the savings on fuel bills balance out the cost of installation before 2008?</span>

I guess that refers to the Government's plan to increase the excise on LPG to bring it on par with other fuels?

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:green">uh-huh.....
and i heard 2008 is the year it will happen....</span>

[p38arover]

Originally posted by pgf
Have had some good experience with lpgas1.
www.lpgas1.com.au.
Currently mine runs beatifully on LPG at 40% the cost of ULP.

Is yours a Disco 2?

We've been unable to find anyone who has done a D2.

Ron

[MacMan]

http://www.lpgas1.com.au/LPG_news.shtml

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>will the savings on fuel bills balance out the cost of installation before 2008?[/b][/quote]

Have a look at the link above. Still a way off yet...

[igould]

From another thread:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>According to the Cars Guide in Melb Herald Sun 29/07, it will be some time before we need to stress too much about increases in excise.
I quote:
"The cost-saving picture will change from 2011 when the Federal Government will begin to phase in an excise on LPG. The excise will start at 2.5 cents a litre and increase by 2.5 cents a litre for the following four years until it reaches a total of 12.5 cents a litre, where the Government has said it will be fixed.
That compares with the 38 cents the Government adds to the price of a litre of petrol.
To offset the introduction of the excise, the Government will offer owners a rebate of $1000 for new vehicles converted in the next three years."
I'm not sure if you can access the whole article on the web (I can't find it) but I can scan it and email it if you like. It talks about cost savings and choosing an installer, among other things.
Given that they are predicting ULP prices will hit $2.00/litre by Christmas, a total of 12.5c/litre still sounds cheap.
My only beef with the conversion is that my range (97 Disco) is 300-320km with the LPG scuba tanks (approx 70 litres), and maybe 150km if I'm lucky on the piddly little tank of ULP that I've got.
The twin scuba tanks are between the chassis rails, with a sheet metal screen over (under?) them, so they are well protected from damage.
All things considered, an LPG conversion should pay for itself fairly quickly.[/b][/quote]

Check out this spreadsheet to calculate savings, etc (Thanks to matbor). It's a beauty: http://www.bordignons.net/disco/misc/Gas%2...0Conversion.xls (http://www.bordignons.net/disco/misc/Gas%20Conversion.xls)

Cheers, Ian

[p38arover]

FYI, for those in WA, the WA govt already offers a rebate ($500, I think) for the fitting of LPG.

Ron

[Utemad]

Originally posted by p38arover
If you find anyone who has done it on as S2 Dsico, let us know. I've been looking for a while for a friend.

It doesn't matter where the gasfitter is.

Ron

What is the problem with fitting gas to a Disco S2? Is it to do with the different EFI system to the S1?

[p38arover]

Originally posted by Utemad+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Utemad)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-p38arover
If you find anyone who has done it on as S2 Dsico, let us know. I've been looking for a while for a friend.

It doesn't matter where the gasfitter is.

Ron

What is the problem with fitting gas to a Disco S2? Is it to do with the different EFI system to the S1?[/b][/quote]

The D2 uses the Bosch EFI which shuts off ignition and fuel on overrun.

If you are using a venturi LPG system, it continues to suck gas in. Touch the throttle and you ignite a gutful of LPG. Doesn't do MAF sensors and airboxes much good.

However, Parnells in Melbourne have now sorted out a sequential gas injection system which is the way to go.

Ron

[Utemad]

I just did a ring around and for $2500 you can get a Disco 2 converted to LPG. No one seemed to think it was a problem for this model. As you say it must be sorted now.

[matbor]

Originally posted by igould
From another thread:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>According to the Cars Guide in Melb Herald Sun 29/07, it will be some time before we need to stress too much about increases in excise.
I quote:
"The cost-saving picture will change from 2011 when the Federal Government will begin to phase in an excise on LPG. The excise will start at 2.5 cents a litre and increase by 2.5 cents a litre for the following four years until it reaches a total of 12.5 cents a litre, where the Government has said it will be fixed.
That compares with the 38 cents the Government adds to the price of a litre of petrol.
To offset the introduction of the excise, the Government will offer owners a rebate of $1000 for new vehicles converted in the next three years."
I'm not sure if you can access the whole article on the web (I can't find it) but I can scan it and email it if you like. It talks about cost savings and choosing an installer, among other things.
Given that they are predicting ULP prices will hit $2.00/litre by Christmas, a total of 12.5c/litre still sounds cheap.
My only beef with the conversion is that my range (97 Disco) is 300-320km with the LPG scuba tanks (approx 70 litres), and maybe 150km if I'm lucky on the piddly little tank of ULP that I've got.
The twin scuba tanks are between the chassis rails, with a sheet metal screen over (under?) them, so they are well protected from damage.
All things considered, an LPG conversion should pay for itself fairly quickly.

Check out this spreadsheet to calculate savings, etc (Thanks to matbor). It's a beauty: http://www.bordignons.net/disco/misc/Gas%2...0Conversion.xls (http://www.bordignons.net/disco/misc/Gas%20Conversion.xls)

Cheers, Ian[/b][/quote]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

I'm still debating on whether or not to put my D1 on GAS, will go the tanks inside the disco though because I still want my fuel tank !!

Was reading one of the LR mags the other day and a guy was selling his S1 disco and it had a 120lt tank in it :!:

[ET]

Matbor,
I just put my 1996 D1 on gas. $2,420.00. I use it all week for work on construction sites and travel and fun on the weekends. My fuel bills went from $220 per week to less than $100. Performance is down a touch but not really noticable. if you weant more at anytime flick the switch back to petrol. I am very happy. I have a set of 3 tanks, 200mm high in the luggage area. Still plenty of room. Conversion done with 3 year warranty by Torguegas.

[matbor]

cool.

the reason i haven't put mine on GAS is because just when i was going to my girlfriend got a job near me, so we just take her car to work now, but would still like to put it on GAS for when i go away.


do you know what sort of fuel economy you are getting ?

what size tanks did they put in ?

thanks
Matt.

[ET]

Tanks total 70 litres and I kept my full fuel tank. Will be doing fuel usage test soon so will let you know the results. The tanks are called manifold tanks and are linked together. They are manufactired by APA tanks.
Like I said am very happy. the other issues I considered wehen converting was that the vehicle will havwe a better resale value. I have noticed in Car Sales that the V8's just are not selling.

[MacMan]

I have noticed that the used Disco price has fallen through the floor (I wonder if Clarkie is wondering if he paid too much like I am now...?) but it does mean that I should be able to find a cheap bush hack Disco some time in the future! If I was forced to make the choice, for ther same $5K I'd rather have a Disco than a Rangie...

(wait for the feathers!)

[matbor]

I certainly will be hanging onto my current disco for a long time, might even see if i can pick up another one along the way and use that one for bush bashing and just setup my current one for touring !

[tombraider]

Wouldnt it be better to get a diesel for touring and keep the V8 for play?

LPG eats too much load space to use for touring. Using sill tanks for Petrol and going gas under rear works well but its a very pricey deal.

D2 on std gas system is a disaster. TriumphRover is full of LPG burnt vehicles.

Oh and its a known fact the only time resale improves is when the dealer charges more for it with LPG to the next guy. It has no bearing on trade-in at all unfortunately.

Guys apply V8 logic thus....

You consume 6 more litres per hundred Kilometers.
This costs say $7.50
To drive what YOU want to drive, listening to the sound YOU want to hear, isnt that worth the extra $7.50 per 100km????

I sold my 5L Disco and went TD5 Defender, great move, but I do miss the Disco (wish I'd kept both)... The sound, the power.....

Now I have diesel economy and guess what :?: :!: Now I drive around more than I need to 'cause I can 8O Silly really...

Best $100K vehicle I ever built! :oops:

Cheers
Mike

[matbor]

Originally posted by tombraider
Wouldnt it be better to get a diesel for touring and keep the V8 for play?


How much are TDI disco's going for these days ?

[FenianEel]

Tombraider,

Ye speaketh the Truth. Had gas on V8 96 Disco. never again. I'm a dedicated diesel soaker now, but....if I had a V8, gas is alright, but the savings aren't that dramatic (when you consider the outlay), as well as reduction in space and / or safety issues.

Unfortunately, LPG (factory or otherwise) is a negative when it comes to trade in. (speaking from experience and business dealings with dealers & vehicle brokers).

It'll add to a private sale or as Tombraider said the next guy (sucker) will get the price pumped up "oh, it's got duel fuel"!! Give me some more commission them :wink:

[p38arover]

Originally posted by FenianEel
Had gas on V8 96 Disco. never again.

My previous RR was on LPG, my present RR is on LPG, and I'm about to fit it to my County. I bought, quite cheaply, a second hand system from my local LR apprentice. I'll do the tank, converter, electrical, and venturi installation and get a qualified guy to do the gas lines (I have to buy new ones anyway) and certification.

The tank that came with the second hand unit is out of date but that's not a problem. I have the 4-year old tank out of my P38A and I'll use that. (The P38A has been retrofitted with a toroidal tank in the wheel well.)

I was at the gas man's yesterday and got speaking with a Qld. TAFE LPG instructor and discussed a few problems I was having with my P38A. So he got out his Air/Fuel Ratio meter, fitted it into the tailpipe and we when for a few runs. It was running lean and it was surging at 4,000 rpm. He adjusted the system and it improved to 5000 rpm where it still surged and ran lean. After a few checks he found the converter diaphragm was perforated and that was the cause. I happened to mention that the gas lock-off wasn't working and we found that was due to the original installer (not the gas man where I was yesterday) wiring up the gas switch/fuel gauge module incorrectly. Now fixed after 4 years.

Cost? Nothing! Zilch.

After all that he took me for a run in his nearly 500,000km EB Falcon V8 on LPG. It was smooth and it was quick. I was sitting with his test equipment plugged in and on my lap so I could see what the LPG computer was doing.

Ron

[ET]

Hey Guys,
I see some of your logic but not everyone is wealthy!
My conversion costs $2420.00. I keep my car which is in excellent original condition. Has sunroofs, leather, all electrics etc.
To replace with a newer diesel would cost in excess of $20K.
My weekly fuel cost is less than $100.00 now compared with plus $200.00 p[reviously.
There sure is plusses and minuses for all arguments but in my case and I reckon Matbors gas is the go.

[Bradtot]

I have just converted my sons 89 rangie to gas. took all the parts, tank convertor, flex gas lines, etc from his 82. Tank still in date and convertor all ok
Because I did most of the conversion except connecting the gas lines it only cost me $362 for some clamps and a relay and the labour to finish off and tune...now the best bit, we here in WA get a $500 rebate from the govt so I actually made money doing the conversion, so I am really happy and so is my son
Brad

[PeterM]

ET, I've got the same setup as you done by LPGAS1 in Lilydale. I get about 20L/100km fairly consistently. Mind you I've long since re-couped the cost of my conversion. It was done in Dec '99 and cost me $1500. No probs since.

[101RRS]

I priced 5 installers today to have LPG fitted to my disco - all the same price $3500 - 70 litre manafold tank to replace main tank. Cost was for LPG work only I had to already have alternative petrol arrangments set up. So all up cost about $4000 - about the same cost to convert to a TD5 or 300 Tdi Diesel if you do most of the work yourself.

At that cost the change is not worth while - even with ULP at $1.20 and gas at 55c.

Guess the car stays petrol.

[MacMan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Unfortunately, LPG (factory or otherwise) is a negative when it comes to trade in. (speaking from experience and business dealings with dealers & vehicle brokers).

It'll add to a private sale or as Tombraider said the next guy (sucker) will get the price pumped up "oh, it's got duel fuel"!! Give me some more commission them[/b][/quote]

Maybe, but I happily paid a little extra for a well converted Disco and I'm laughing now. I couldn't run without it and at today's prices I couldn't afford to convert it. Guess I am happy to be a sucker! 8O

[abaddonxi]

Originally posted by garrycol
I priced 5 installers today to have LPG fitted to my disco - all the same price $3500 - 70 litre manafold tank to replace main tank. Cost was for LPG work only I had to already have alternative petrol arrangments set up. So all up cost about $4000 - about the same cost to convert to a TD5 or 300 Tdi Diesel if you do most of the work yourself.

At that cost the change is not worth while - even with ULP at $1.20 and gas at 55c.

Guess the car stays petrol.

$4000 is about 3000 litres of petrol, that will get you a very long way.

Cheers
Simon

[p38arover]

Originally posted by abaddonxi
$4000 is about 3000 litres of petrol, that will get you a very long way.

At 20 litres/100km, that's 15,000km. Not far at all. I do more than that each year and I'm not doing a lot of km. I've done 80,000km in the 3-1/2 years I've owned the P38A. I was doing dar more than that in my last job when I had the '86 Hiline on LPG.

Fortunately for me, the previous owner had the P38A converted a 8 months before selling it.

Ron

[101RRS]

Installers will supply and fit but not supply only, and all said they had to buy kits in - any idea where in Sydney I could actually buy a kit - from my discussions the bits that go in the rear (tank fittings etc are about $1200 and the bits that go in the front are about $1000). Two installers said they would not fit or certify any system with an under car tank as they were no longer legal - checked with Tech Standards who know nothing of it but said it was up to the gas industry association to set the standards rather than the rego authorities.

Gazz

PS

Just calculated that on todays fuel prices it will take 42,500 km to recoup full costs - as the Disco is now a second car it will take years and years to recoup costs. (as it is I have only covered 100,000km in over 11 years)

[NOZ]

Think I will stick with my tdi.....

[Utemad]

Originally posted by garrycol
I priced 5 installers today to have LPG fitted to my disco - all the same price $3500 - 70 litre manafold tank to replace main tank. Cost was for LPG work only I had to already have alternative petrol arrangments set up. So all up cost about $4000 - about the same cost to convert to a TD5 or 300 Tdi Diesel if you do most of the work yourself.

At that cost the change is not worth while - even with ULP at $1.20 and gas at 55c.

Guess the car stays petrol.

Canberra must be really expensive. As I said before I rang around in Brisbane and got $2500 quotes for the manifold tank in the back setup from a few different installers.

Would be well worth a drive to Brisbane for the $1500 difference :?

[p38arover]

Originally posted by garrycol
Two installers said they would not fit or certify any system with an under car tank as they were no longer legal - checked with Tech Standards who know nothing of it but said it was up to the gas industry association to set the standards rather than the rego authorities.

Doesn't sound right to me. Installation standards are set by Australian Standards, not by the gas industry association. Read AS/NZ 1425 (the automotive LPG standard). The registation authorities rely on AS1425.

I was talking with a TAFE LPG instructor last week as he watched over some installation work with trainees at a workshop and he didn't tell them that they couldn't fit under car tanks as they fitted them. You'd think he'd be up with the latest rules.

Ron

[101RRS]

Originally posted by Utemad
[
Canberra must be really expensive. As I said before I rang around in Brisbane and got $2500 quotes for the manifold tank in the back setup from a few different installers.

Would be well worth a drive to Brisbane for the $1500 difference :?

Agree and I discussed that issue with two of the installers - they both claim it costs them about $2200 to buy the kit and about $1200-1300 in labour to install - petrol tanks are extra (I don't want the tanks inside the car)

Gazzz

[101RRS]

Originally posted by p38arover
Doesn't sound right to me. Installation standards are set by Australian Standards, not by the gas industry association. Read AS/NZ 1425 (the automotive LPG standard). The registation authorities rely on AS1425.

I was talking with a TAFE LPG instructor last week as he watched over some installation work with trainees at a workshop and he didn't tell them that they couldn't fit under car tanks as they fitted them. You'd think he'd be up with the latest rules.

Ron

I am with you but when its what the Tech Standard people of the Registration Authority say this then what do you do? https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Pose the question on the AULO forum for comments!! https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Is the standard developed by the industry and simply ratifieed by Governments - I am not sure!!

Maybe the standards are so poorly written that they are open to different interpretations in different jurisdictions.

Gazzz

[PeterM]

You can have tanks under the vehicle, it just needs to have a minimum 200mm clearance to the ground. They're talking b/s.