Awful Outback mobile and internet service

[DiscoMick]

After reading Ron Moon's column in the latest issue of 4 x 4 Australia, I wrote a letter which I have copied below. If you also feel strongly about this, maybe you might also like to write. Can we help to get a campaign going? It couldn't make the situation any worse.

The address is: 4x4australia@bauertrader.com.au


Letter to the Editor, Matt Raudonikis


Dear Matt,


Anyone who has travelled overseas knows that Ron Moon's description of outback Australia's mostly non-existent mobile phone and internet coverage as '**** poor' (February 2016, p. 166) is absolutely spot on.

I have had much better mobile coverage in the back blocks of Thailand and Cambodia than in Australia. On our last big trip from Brisbane to Alice Springs and return we travelled about 6000 kms in total and our mobiles only worked for about 500kms of that distance, including in some towns, but as soon as you passed the town boundaries they died.*

The residents of what other country would accept the Australian situation where only about 15% of our landmass has mobile reception?

Yes, we have a big country, but the really dangerous fact is that so few of our outback highways have mobile reception. This is not just a matter of urban yuppies wanting to keep up with their Facebook friends while travelling, it's actually a serious matter of life and death.

How many people have died because they broke down or became ill or crashed and were injured and it was impossible to call an ambulance because their phones were useless?

As Moonie also pointed out, the internet is pretty much unavailable outside the major cities and large towns.*

The current government downgraded the National Broadband Network from fibre to the home plus some satellite to fibre to the node plus a lot more satellite, claiming that would save a lot of money. However, the latest figures show the cost has almost climbed to match the original estimate, but the promised speed has plummeted from 100 mbs to 25 mbs - if it is actually available, which it is not for much of the country. By world standards, our internet service is very, very poor.

I can understand telephone companies making a commercial decision to concentrate on the most profitable urban areas, but we expect our governments to act to ensure a reasonable standard of communications are available throughout the country. Many MPs claim to represent rural constituents, but in fact they seem to have dropped the ball.

For much of our history we tried to populate the interior to overcome fears that foreigners would come in and take this country away from us, just as we did to the Aborigines, but by failing to ensure reasonable communications are available to outback residents, our governments have discouraged people from settling the inland.

If you were rating the Australian government's mobile and internet performance, you would have to describe it as grossly incompetent and, as Moonie said, 'a cruel joke'.

Four wheel drivers should be leading a revolt to demand better mobile and internet coverage for the Outback.


Michael Secomb
Brisbane



Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[weeds]

I have never been bothered about the lack of service in the outback.......I think we are getting soft as a society and are too reliant on phone and internet coverage in our day to day living.

[Rolly]

Funny thing is, go somewher like Fiji and you'll see islanders in their canoes with mobiles chatting away, then paddle back the village which only has electricity when the Genny's on. Some ways third world others ...First.
Quite bizarre.
Telstra usually has a better reception than competitors.
Then again I get it, how can you justify a repeater station used so infrequently!
Also if we had things like reception everywhere those places we hold so special would be more frequently visited.
I've no empirical evidence but stands to reason those who try that little bit harder,go that little bit further are more likely to be advocates of the envirnment they enjoy.
Quick in and out rubbernecks leave rubbish and just don't get the 'Leave it how you found it'.
Personally I'm all for keeping the outback just that.....the outback!

[LandyAndy]

I have never been bothered about the lack of service in the outback.......I think we are getting soft as a society and are too reliant on phone and internet coverage in our day to day living.

Try living in the country,never mind outback.
Phone coverage is a safety need.Car accidents,bushfires,ability to contact emergency services etc etc etc.
Keep stacking the steel and making more towers.
Andrew

[sam_d]

If you only need phone access for emergencies then rather than wait for Telstra or whoever to build more towers, you can pick up a second hand Iridium Sat Phone for much less than the price of a new iPhone (in fact, much less than the cost of a new iPhone). Then there are plenty of quite cheap prepaid and post paid options for emergencies only.

[rangieman]

I dont realy care for coverage in the outback and i guess 15 years ago not to many did either;)
It is a sad fact of life that so many depend on it now . Im sure the locals have and use the bush telegraph. It is only the city folk that complain:p
I go away to get away from people and civilisation so you wont get jack from me :angel:

[p38arover]

When we drove down the coastal highway from Portland, Oregon, to San Fran, phone reception was often non-existent - and I had two phones, one with T-Mobile, the other roaming to AT&T. I commented to my American co-traveller (rrtoadhall from the rr.net forum) that I thought we had better coverage here.

[Mick_Marsh]

I know people who never have communications issues in the outback.
They have either satellite phones, VHF radios or both.
When remote traveling, you always prepare and take the proper equipment. At least, you're supposed to.

I reckon it is disgusting they haven't sealed all the outback roads and put a roadhouse (with shower, toilets and McDonalds) every 50km. That would be far more useful.

[PhilipA]

The situation is much better if you are an aboriginal. Many remote communities have a cell up linked to a satellite. Beagle bay, one arm point, Kalumburu , come to mind.
I was approached by the cop at Kalumburu as I was downloading from the cell outside the police station.
Also mines have a cell, such as on the Tanami, the diamond mine in WA, and others,
It helps to have a coverage map with you.
I read last year that in 2016, Telstra is spending millions to have coverage all the way up the WA highway from Perth north.
Regards Philip A

[cjc_td5]

There is that much traffic on most highways these days that lack of coverage is not that much of an issue, someone will be along soon enough. You can drive from Bunbury to Broome up either of the two bitumen highways and have coverage for 90% of it. If you are going "off piste" then take alternative communications options as you see fit.

In my opinion, Telstra have pretty good regional and remote coverage these days. My sister just drove across the big paddock and was complaining that she had no Optus coverage from Ceduna to Kal. I said change to Telstra then, you'll have coverage pretty much the whole way then :D:D.

No phone coverage is an attraction of remote area travel. I loved the ten days we spent in the Kimberley with no coverage at all. It was sad to come over the hill down to the ElQuestro River have have the phone start beeping its head off as it found some coverage again. Welcome back to civilisation :(:(:(.

[AndyG]

I have run the two largest ISP's in PNG
I have introduced Internet into several large towns in PNG for the first time
I have recently done a JV with the main Mobile Carrier to get three towers to cover 50,000 people.
Per Mb used to be 40 cents now down to around 4 cents, still bloody expensive
My VSAT link 2048 down/ 512 up @ 3:1 Contention costs $6,000 AUD per month. Not cheap, and people complain about 25 mbps :o
If people had to pay what it really costs, rather than being subsidised by city users then they would really squeal.
In the example of third world usage you have high population density and a large proportion of their income goes on mobile services. Coke estimated that when an area gets coverage, for every $1 the Carrier gains, they lose 40%, thats the competition for discretionary income.
But lets look at Australia,
When i went to Windorah in 2014, it was inexplicable there was no mobile coverage, as Telstra had a microwave tower there.
Would i expect Telstra to put a Tower every 15 km down the Birdsville Track for coverage, no.

This is an expensive game, and a lot of people expect someone else to pay for it.
That reminds me, supposed to do another JV (i.e put the hand in the pocket) to get another 4 towers in 2016.

[Eevo]

i work for a telco. i wont say which one but it wont be hard to work out.

my company covered about 31% of the land mass of the country. lets round up to one third.
which is about 99.3% of the population.

putting towers in these areas is profitable. putting towers elsewhere is not profitable. phone towers and backhaul are expensive to build and maintain.

[superquag]

Funny how the 'old fashioned' analogue phones had better range than the digitals have...
My ancient Nokia 636 only EVER had one signal drop -out, and I had sufficient (audible) warning. (Deep in a basement...)

On the other hand, country range was superb, up to 40 km was not unknown, - but you had to extend the 6" antenna for that !!!

I've got VIRGIN pre-paid for my city phone because the co$ting & useage suits us, but that's useless out of Perth.

- On the Great Northern Highway beyond Midland, , there's little or no (Optus) coverage. - So I've bought a TELSTRA 'Blue-Tick' phone for charter-bus driving, and coverage is now perfect for where I'm going... I use ALDI pre-Paid which piggybacks off the TELSTRA system which gives better range/coverage than the "Other" carriers, IMHO...:angel:

In fairness, when flying at 4,000 feet around Bindoon/New Norcia, both phones have Excellent signal strength !:D:D:D

But, being born in the middle of last Century, I like to think the Outback is just that, away from "civilisation"... IF I really need comms, I'd hire a HF set or SAT-phone...
Or take the old CB set along, if the 'skip' is up, you can sometimes reach the coast from the middle...

[jonesfam]

Outback telecoms are brilliant these days.
I can only talk for the places I've lived but compared to the late 80's & early 90's it has come a very long way.


When we first moved to Outback QLD in 88 the phones (& power) were totally unreliable. Static was constant, drop outs numerous & total failures regular. Until the mid/late 90's dial up was the only internet option.


Now we have 4G, reliable land lines, ADSL2.
Most even small towns have mobile, Gregory Downs is an exception, & ADSL now.


I remember taking Radio Phone calls for years, having to go to the Police Station to send orders when every thing else was down & just not having any outside communications for 2 weeks because a rat had chewed a cable somewhere.


I was in Mapoon a couple of years ago when some clown burnt a microwave tower down & took out the whole towns comms. Within a few days Telstra or someone had a tempory tower up & comms running again. Pretty good I reckon.


Communications might be a bit ordinary compared to the "Smoke" but I thinks they are pretty good all things considered.


Jonesfam

[Fluids]

Depends on what you term outback ...

In Sept' last year we went outback nsw for 3 weeks ... lots of places we went no one had any service, especially between destinations, but if I stopped, or whilst in camp, and ran up the 6m telescopic mast with a 6.5dB gain mobile antenna on the top, we got 1-2 bars of reception ... for data, not phone ... which suites me fine. Doesn't matter how slow the connection is. All I need to be able to do is get out a txt message (which can be done from the 3g/4g wi-fi modem we use) if we are in trouble. Still have UHF as well. If I was going really remote, I'd rent a sat' phone.

We got coverage where telstras coverage maps said there was none ... only 1 or no bars, but it was still enough to send a txt message to myself from the wifi modem, which I recieved when we back in normal mobile coverage. a 6m mast off the top of the D2 makes a big difference to your ability to get reception.

Check your coverage maps and take the appropriate steps before you leave.

[Tombie]

Recognising everyone has a right to an opinion...

I say "What a load of ****" :cool::twisted:

Who cares about mobile service in the back blocks - its out there that I don't want it!!!

I've worked remote without issue - never even carried a Sat Phone - just a good journey management plan...

As for the number of people who died due to lack of phone reception - very few considering the mad terrorists (tourists) racing around like loonies with no idea what they're doing!

Society is bloody soft - and so co-dependant on tech its scary.
If there is ever a global take down of the internet people are going to lose their minds.... :angel::D

[p38arover]

When we lived in Ceduna in 1969-71, we had no TV nor AM radio. We had a good record collection. :)

When we moved to Carnarvon in 1971, we had AM radio but no TV.

When we were in Cook in 2007, I had full Telstra mobile coverage. My wife had no Optus coverage.

Dunno where Cook is? Well, let me say it's bloody remote.

Mick, is this another of your frequent posts where you blame the government?

[D2lee]

Australia is a huge remote country, we have come to expect high prices, poor infrastructure, poor services and a government run by clowns, that waste $billions and are answerable to no-one (because we expect it). Long may we not catch up with the rest of the world! :eek:

[Tombie]

When 80% of the population reside in less than 300 post codes, what do you expect?

Or when people choose smaller, cheap carriers - it leaves no drive to build infrastructure- just target the profit points.

We have better services for the majority than much of the USA...

Our prices are a product of our choices for much of it...

[Fluids]

Recognising everyone has a right to an opinion...

I say "What a load of ****" :cool::twisted:

Who cares about mobile service in the back blocks - its out there that I don't want it!!!

I've worked remote without issue - never even carried a Sat Phone - just a good journey management plan...

As for the number of people who died due to lack of phone reception - very few considering the mad terrorists (tourists) racing around like loonies with no idea what they're doing!

Society is bloody soft - and so co-dependant on tech its scary.
If there is ever a global take down of the internet people are going to lose their minds.... :angel::D


Yeah, but without SOME access every two or three or four days, I can't pay my staff, pay creditors, order stock, keep my small business running, etc ... So I'd not be able to take 3 weeks off to go outback and chill ... I'm all for the fact that BECAUSE I can use this great technology, I CAN then get away ... and for more than 1 week, which is about all I can do without contact. I don't have heaps of staff to do my bidding, and I'm not on someone else's payroll so I can't just take 4 weeks annual leave and forget about work for 4 weeks .... You might be able too ... I don't know, but I sure can't.

I don't panic if there's not a connection available, I'll wait till there is one, but I took steps to ensure that when I do need to do what I have to do, I CAN. I don't use social media either. I'm trying to find a way to use up 3 lots of long service leave and about 80 weeks of unused holidays .... While keeping the business running so I can earn an income to pay me for those entitlements.

So, some of us do it because we have to. Don't condemn us because of that.

... condemn my wife ... She goes nuts if she can't get on Facebook! :p

Cheers

[scarry]

Same as most of you guys,i like not having phone coverage in regional and remote areas,particularly during holidays.:)

But i have noticed reception has got a lot better in many areas.

For work i have an antenna mounted on the roof of the vehicle,and it plugs directly into the phone,and use Telstra.Reception is pretty good.

For people that know this area,i can drive to St George (depending which way you go),and only have one small drop out near Moonie.

Reception wasn't that good a few years ago,even with the external antenna.

[Bushie]

When we were in Cook in 2007, I had full Telstra mobile coverage. My wife had no Optus coverage.

Dunno where Cook is? Well, let me say it's bloody remote.



From what I can gather the whole of the transcontinental route has Telstra coverage, when we popped out the top of Googs track near Malbooma my phone went crazy delivering old texts to me.
I was really suprised where there was coverage (Telstra - the others are pretty useless). Now they tell me they've switched on a tower at Louth, the boss will be able to get me at the races :mad:.


Martyn

[ramblingboy42]

do you guys know that you can still transmit with a telex or teleprinter or also with a fax.

it doesn't have to be a digital mobile phone for it to be efficient

btw ....every town I have ever been in or through has a public phone and every pub has at least one which can always be used in emergencies.

wtf are you guys really on about?

[roverrescue]

Tombie
You mentioned the cray cray if the net died.
Few years ago a "freak" flooding event occurred and both the primary and backup net feeds to fnq were cut.
I had a lovely few days... But interestingly local business couldn't even make cash transactions as POS systems are all net based...

If I was a terrorist I'd be targeting them big sub-ocean internet pipes... Now that would mind**** the minions...

S

[NavyDiver]

Honestly I like places my phone fails to work the best:D Vic High Country National parks work for me:D

[p38arover]

If I was a terrorist I'd be targeting them big sub-ocean internet pipes... Now that would mind**** the minions..

My job in Telstra before I took redundancy was as Marine Manager working specifically in the area of repairing those international submarine cables. Modern cables are now buried out to about 2,000 metres water depth. Shore ends have always been armoured.

Grappling for a cable is harder than you'd think so trying to damage submerged cables where the terrorists won't be seen could be difficult. The water off Sydney goes deep very quickly. Terrorists might find it easier attack shore ends where they come up on the beaches.

[Eevo]

the terrorists should be jamming the gps signal.
lots of systems require accurate time and they get the time from gps

[DiscoMick]

When we lived in Ceduna in 1969-71, we had no TV nor AM radio. We had a good record collection. :)

When we moved to Carnarvon in 1971, we had AM radio but no TV.

When we were in Cook in 2007, I had full Telstra mobile coverage. My wife had no Optus coverage.

Dunno where Cook is? Well, let me say it's bloody remote.

Mick, is this another of your frequent posts where you blame the government?

No, it was a response to a Ron Moon column in 4 x 4 Australia about a trip down the Oodnadatta and the poor mobile coverage. He also talked about the experiences of people trying to run businesses in remote areas.
Its fine to like getting away from being plagued by the phone, but its a fact its a safety problem and its hard for businesses to operate and it causes a lot of isolation problems.
It's not about politics or blaming governments, it's about improving comms. in remote areas. Surely we could at least get a better coverage in outback towns and on main highways?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[Eevo]

Surely we could at least get a better coverage in outback towns and on main highways?


whose going to pay for it?

[jonesfam]

whose going to pay for it?

In our case - the small business.
Jonesfam

[Eevo]

In our case - the small business.
Jonesfam

really expensive.

if a mobile tower doesnt service 100 people, it generally runs at a loss.
and by service, i dont mean 100 cars driving past.

[DiscoMick]

Rural residents would probably say they've already paid their share in their taxes.
Its OK for us pampered urban residents to say we don't mind not having comms for a couple of weeks on holiday, but I'm sure most remote residents definitely want better services and feel forgotten because the cities get priority for services. We can't complain that no one wants to live in the outback and ignore one of the main reasons people head for the coast - to escape remote isolation.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[Eevo]

Rural residents would probably say they've already paid their share in their taxes.
isolation.
im not sure how taxes come into it.
mobiles n internet are private sector.

[DiscoMick]

Rural areas don't have enough people to make it viable for phone companies so the government uses taxes to subsidise the cost of providing the service. The argument is that all Australians should be provided with a minimum level of services.
This country is plenty rich enough to cover everywhere if we consider it a priority. If we spend money elsewhere that's a choice. Personally I think better comms should be a national priority.
Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[V8Ian]

Fifty years ago, if one ventured off the coast, it was in an EH Holden. There were few sealed roads, no air conditioning, mobile phones, CB or uhf radios. Everybody coped. Now we have $80,000 air conditioned carriages with $40,000 of upgrade to deal with the mostly bitumen highways and some people expect mobile, digital phone coverage for the entire 7.7 million square kilometres of the mostly uninhabited continent?
News flash, we already have total coverage, it's called a Satphone.
Australia has better phone coverage than the UK.

[bee utey]

im not sure how taxes come into it.
mobiles n internet are private sector.
Part of the privatisation of Telstra included making sure that they (or another suitable carrier) have a "Universal Service Obligation" to mean that they have to provide adequate coverage to the population "wherever they work or live". Presumably that's a bit elastic for people just holidaying but nevertheless it's something that must guide their coverage.

https://www.telstra.com.au/consumer-advice/customer-service/universal-service-obligation

[MR LR]

If you go remote, and want to be in touch with reality, you are mad not to have a sat phone, or at bare minimum a UHF radio with a long and short range antenna along with a mobile. Never have I not been able to contact someone with those 3 items. A HF radio is a cheaper (if you use it regularly) alternative to the sat phone. I'd rather them spend the money around the cities where there are still heaps of black spots, than put a tower in ******* nowhereland incase some unprepared moron drives past... I'd rather have reliable covereage to conduct business in the city, than be able to conduct business halfway up a double black diamond 4WD track.

My Discovery spends lots of time in the bush, I've got a UHF, long and short range antennas and an antenna for my blue tick Telstra iPhone... And if I go further out at least one person in the group has a sat phone.

[Eevo]

Part of the privatisation of Telstra included making sure that they (or another suitable carrier) have a "Universal Service Obligation" to mean that they have to provide adequate coverage to the population "wherever they work or live". Presumably that's a bit elastic for people just holidaying but nevertheless it's something that must guide their coverage.

https://www.telstra.com.au/consumer-advice/customer-service/universal-service-obligation


the USO only applies to landlines. not internet or mobiles.
there has been talk about adding the internet to the USO (like some other countries) but it was deemed too expensive.

I would be in favor of a 25mbit/s min internet USO.

[p38arover]

In some ways I miss CDMA. I recall quite some years ago being in the high country and being able to make a call with my phone with no external antenna where others with high gain bullbar mounted aerials had no service.

[rangieman]

No, it was a response to a Ron Moon column in 4 x 4 Australia about a trip down the Oodnadatta and the poor mobile coverage. He also talked about the experiences of people trying to run businesses in remote areas.
Its fine to like getting away from being plagued by the phone, but its a fact its a safety problem and its hard for businesses to operate and it causes a lot of isolation problems.
It's not about politics or blaming governments, it's about improving comms. in remote areas. Surely we could at least get a better coverage in outback towns and on main highways?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Are you serious :eek:People either grow up or move to the area they are all well aware of not having bull**** internet or mobile coverage before buying a buisness or moving there .
If you travel or live or run a buisness remotely it is your responsibility not the telco`s or goverment to have adequate coms for your buisness or safety reasons
What is it with people from the big smoke they have to make bullsiht excuses just to get mobile service .
Ron Moon is a twit

[DiscoMick]

I'm very sure most rural residents would totally disagree with you.


That's one of the reasons why there is so much unhappiness in the bush - people feel ignored because they are outnumbered by pampered city residents who get everything they want while the rural people get very little.


One of the reasons rural people move to the coast is because they feel ignored in the bush.At the rate we're going, we will have almost everyone living on the coastal strip and very few people in the vast bulk of our landmass. Lack of communications is one reason for that trend. Decentralization cannot work without adequate communications.

[JDNSW]

As a rural resident, I don't set too high a premium on having mobile coverage, but the major requirement is to have adequate fixed services. These were not necessary when most people got their present homes and businesses, but increasingly businesses and especially governments expect you to have good internet, especially if you run a business or have children at school.

Since these requirements are imposed by governments at all levels (and allow them to save money on postage etc), it is not a big jump to expect governments to help meet this requirement now and especially in the future.

John

[gusthedog]

If you regularly travel through remote areas with no signal get a sat phone. Problem solved.

Ps. Mobile coverage may be great in Metro areas but there are also statistically more ******* :). I'll have my crap phone and Internet, a sat phone and no traffic over a metro area any time :D



One of the reasons rural people move to the coast is because they feel ignored in the bush.

The reason I live in the bush is I like being ignored :thumbup:

[Roverlord off road spares]

Maybe they should reinstall the humble fixed line phone booth like they used to have instead of these fandangled mobile phone units that some need to have surgically removed from their ears. Nah people would vandalise them, then complain they are not working

[superquag]

In some ways I miss CDMA. I recall quite some years ago being in the high country and being able to make a call with my phone with no external antenna where others with high gain bullbar mounted aerials had no service.

I miss my ANALOGUE even more... Remember making a call on my old Nokia 636 that was, according to the farmer, an unbelievably obscene distance from the nearest phone tower...'..that-a-way...' Only had one bar reception, but was enough to make and continue a call.:D

I believe Analog - or maybe CDMA? - is still used in some parts of the US and Japan.. Or 'was' when it was switched off here. My understanding is that CDMA had a similar, but NOT equal range, but both superior to GSM's 'Tower-to-mobile' reliable-reception distance....

When the first "replacement" (GSM? or CDMA?) tower in Canberra was publicly commissioned, and some 'Polly' made a Big Issue of placing the first - Very Long Range mobile call...to "prove" the performance of the Analogue 'replacement'.... what the sycophantic press didn't know at the time was.... the output powers had been surreptitiously cranked up for the occasion... and this only leaked out via a Telecom Tech having a few extra ales afterwards...and was overheard.:eek:

[p38arover]

CDMA is still used by some US carriers.

[DiscoMick]

CDMA was good.
Sat phones sound good, but they're expensive to buy and operate.
Decentralization has failed in this country, which is why most people avoid living in the inland. If we want to populate the interior we have to make providing the services people seek a higher priority.
It's not just in phones either. Look at the way TV and radio operators have been allowed by changes to licensing regulations to scrap local content to as little as 45 minutes a week and replace it with centralised content. This has taken away localism in the media, and cost thousands of jobs in rural areas.
Another blow to regionalism has been the move to fly in-fly out workforces, with some companies said to actually reject job applicants if they live in the area and instead favour those from the coast.
The falling rural populations means they lose political power as well since MPs with vast electorates can ignore peoples' individual complaints because they are too scattered to organise an effective protest.
Climate change is also working rapidly to make the inland uninhabitable, so discouraging people from going there.
Meanwhile, we favoured metropolitan residents couldn't care less if the rural populations are dying out.
At this rate we'll end up like Saudi Arabia or simlar countries with vast empty interiors.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[ramblingboy42]

For several weeks , two or three times a year I go bush....central Australia where there are few services.

You know what? My phone ends up buried somewhere , I plug the stick in and listen to whatever random song out of several thousand comes up.

I rarely listen to a news broadcast and nothing changes when I get home. The grass might be longer if we have rain while I'm away.

Here's reality , I know a lot of cockys out there and none of them care less about mobiles , internet, facebook etc.

They have their wireless turned onto ABC to hear livestock , weather and feed reports. I have never seen one stationhand or rouseabout with a mobile phone , it's only the coasters.

[V8Ian]

CDMA was good.
Sat phones sound good, but they're expensive to buy and operate.
Decentralization has failed in this country, which is why most people avoid living in the inland. If we want to populate the interior we have to make providing the services people seek a higher priority.
It's not just in phones either. Look at the way TV and radio operators have been allowed by changes to licensing regulations to scrap local content to as little as 45 minutes a week and replace it with centralised content. This has taken away localism in the media, and cost thousands of jobs in rural areas.
Another blow to regionalism has been the move to fly in-fly out workforces, with some companies said to actually reject job applicants if they live in the area and instead favour those from the coast.
The falling rural populations means they lose political power as well since MPs with vast electorates can ignore peoples' individual complaints because they are too scattered to organise an effective protest.
Climate change is also working rapidly to make the inland uninhabitable, so discouraging people from going there.
Meanwhile, we favoured metropolitan residents couldn't care less if the rural populations are dying out.
At this rate we'll end up like Saudi Arabia or simlar countries with vast empty interiors.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app
Having lived and worked in a number of remote locations, I feel the lack of Land Rover and Goldwing parts, accessories and services to be a greater detraction than a lack of mobile phone service. The Federal government will subsidise satphones to those who can justify their need.

[rangieman]

Having lived and worked in a number of remote locations, I feel the lack of Land Rover and Goldwing parts, accessories and services to be a greater detraction than a lack of mobile phone service. The Federal government will subsidise satphones to those who can justify their need.

Maybe the Government should subsidise Landrover and Goldwing parts for the Out back while we are at it;)
Who is game enough to send that email (DiscoMick):angel:;)

[AndyG]

i would like my firewood, rabbits and flies subsidised in the City to outback prices to maintain parity :D

[V8Ian]

i would like my firewood, rabbits and flies subsidised in the City to outback prices to maintain parity :D

We ain't got no rabbits 🐰 :p

[DiscoMick]

For several weeks , two or three times a year I go bush....central Australia where there are few services.

You know what? My phone ends up buried somewhere , I plug the stick in and listen to whatever random song out of several thousand comes up.

I rarely listen to a news broadcast and nothing changes when I get home. The grass might be longer if we have rain while I'm away.

Here's reality , I know a lot of cockys out there and none of them care less about mobiles , internet, facebook etc.

They have their wireless turned onto ABC to hear livestock , weather and feed reports. I have never seen one stationhand or rouseabout with a mobile phone , it's only the coasters.

The mobiles don't work, so why would they have them out?

Good story about the problem here:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2141938.htm

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[gusthedog]

For several weeks , two or three times a year I go bush....central Australia where there are few services.

You know what? My phone ends up buried somewhere , I plug the stick in and listen to whatever random song out of several thousand comes up.

I rarely listen to a news broadcast and nothing changes when I get home. The grass might be longer if we have rain while I'm away.

Here's reality , I know a lot of cockys out there and none of them care less about mobiles , internet, facebook etc.

They have their wireless turned onto ABC to hear livestock , weather and feed reports. I have never seen one stationhand or rouseabout with a mobile phone , it's only the coasters.

In 20 years of remote travel I have never met a farmer, station hand or rouseabout without a mobile phone. They have a business to run and need to be contactable. In my experience the real remote farmers also have sat phones.

Pricey

[Mick_Marsh]

The mobiles don't work, so why would they have them out?

Good story about the problem here:
The 7.30 Report - ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2141938.htm)

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app
Interesting article.
Why are Telstra forcing people to switch to a network that is being shut down at the end of the year?
Oh. I see. The article is eight years old.

I can understand telephone companies making a commercial decision to concentrate on the most profitable urban areas, but we expect our governments to act to ensure a reasonable standard of communications are available throughout the country. Many MPs claim to represent rural constituents, but in fact they seem to have dropped the ball.
Why was nothing done about it back then?

[DiscoMick]

Interesting article.
Why are Telstra forcing people to switch to a network that is being shut down at the end of the year?
Oh. I see. The article is eight years old.

Why was nothing done about it back then?

That's an excellent quesion.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[DiscoMick]

It is possible for the phone companies to improve the mobile service in the outback, if they are pushed to do it. Satellite feeds to towns are one option.


Birdsville gets first satellite-fed 3G service - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-08-19/birdsville-gets-first-satellite-fed-3g-service/949878)


Part of the problem is the system adopted by the Hawke Government which made each phone company erect its own network, so you get duplication of networks at a higher cost. There is another option of having only one national network and letting multiple phone companies pay licence fees to operate on that network, making it self-funding. Theoretically, we could have had a much greater coverage for the same cost under that model. However, those that are supposedly wiser than us rejected the national network model in favour of a competition model, which has had exactly the negative effects which were predicted - duplicated costs and reduced coverage area. It didn't have to be that way.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

We could have also kept the analogue phone system, which had a much greater range than digital phone systems. I regularly got reception 30 km from the nearest tower (when it was in the boosted 5W car cradle) and lets face it congestion is never going to be a problem in remote areas. We could also have gone to the option of hybrid phones that would work on the digital systems by default and switch to analogue in remote areas.

Most people would have gone 100% digital and while regular travellers and people who live/work in remote regions would have had hybrid phones.

[stewie110]

As far as I can see this thread is dealing with two separate issues. Mobile reception and internet.

There is a very real issue with remote communities not having internet access at affordable rates. As more government service, banking, insurance etc can only be done online that means we have those with internet and services and those who do not. To further complicate issues the satellite internet services being delivered by the NBN to remote area's will be high latency. Better to have high latency and internet than no internet.. However it does impact a number of internet service like voice and video when the latency becomes high. In my previous role I was working with a federal government agency to introduce internet voice chat (and related technology) to help communicate with people who have hearing and or sight problems as the traditional analogue systems are becoming expensive to maintain when compared to the upstart internet delivered technology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_braille_display).

As communities come online with reliable internet it becomes much more cost effective to deliver mobile services to those areas. (femtocells (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femtocell) and similar tech (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picocell)) however 'cost effective' still needs to have user demand to recoup costs. It is also important to note that in many area's demand is highly seasonal, but the cost to run is not, which means for many providers locations may run at a loss for most of the year). In my opinion having reliable internet is probably more valuable to remote communities than mobile reception given that most remote communication is via working radio which has a very low cost to run. Is generally very reliable and does not have built in obsolescence like mobile.

As someone who uses and works in tech I look forward to being off the grid when I get out in the bush because it means that my oncall is not going to interrupt my life. I also agree that people rely too heavily on technology, I know people who get serious (genuine) anxiety (https://hbr.org/2016/01/what-youre-hiding-from-when-you-constantly-check-your-phone) attacks being away from tech (https://books.google.com.au/books?id=r2RJR5z2504C&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=technology+absence+anxiety&source=bl&ots=i7KL4uLIjL&sig=p_M_vCOnzJjzauiEd_CMXLXkOB4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ14_RuMTKAhUKnZQKHd5OC50Q6AEIIjAB#v=on epage&q=technology%20absence%20anxiety&f=false). That worries me at a social level, but makes me sleep well at night when I camp knowing that they are no bugging me.

[JDNSW]

As far as I can see this thread is dealing with two separate issues. Mobile reception and internet.

........ Better to have high latency and internet than no internet.. However it does impact a number of internet service like voice and video when the latency becomes high. .......

Latency is not a serious problem except for interactive applications, especially gaming, but also such things as last minute bidding on auctions.

A much more serious problem with the coming NBN LTSS (SkyMuster) is the limitations on data. These, while a little better than the interim service, are, in reality, not a big advance, since the peak time (currently 1300-2300 with the interim service) is being extended to 0700-0100, making off peak data practically unusable.

And demands for data are rapidly increasing, even if you do not do much on the internet - Windows 10 for example, can easily require updates of several GB a couple of times a month - in a household with multiple computers, and a limit of perhaps 30GB, the data allowance can easily disappear before much is done on the internet. (I know this sort of update can be controlled and shared between computer - if you are a Windows expert; but how many are? And Microsoft don't make it easy. Same applies to a lot of other software suppliers.

John

[superquag]

It is possible for the phone companies to improve the mobile service in the outback, if they are pushed to do it. Satellite feeds to towns are one option.


Birdsville gets first satellite-fed 3G service - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-08-19/birdsville-gets-first-satellite-fed-3g-service/949878)


Part of the problem is the system adopted by the Hawke Government which made each phone company erect its own network, so you get duplication of networks at a higher cost. There is another option of having only one national network and letting multiple phone companies pay licence fees to operate on that network, making it self-funding. Theoretically, we could have had a much greater coverage for the same cost under that model. However, those that are supposedly wiser than us rejected the national network model in favour of a competition model, which has had exactly the negative effects which were predicted - duplicated costs and reduced coverage area. It didn't have to be that way.

Without naming names or sources... and in a previous re-incarnation, employed by a State-wide newspaper... I was told about a 'Certain British Phone Company' that was 'invited' to set up one of the first DIGITAL networks,- being very experienced at such things.

They would be Delighted... providing a guaranteed 'shut-down' date of the Analogue was agreed upon... :angel:

Naturally, the interests and (Dependable) coverage needs of rural Australia took 3rd place... :eek:

I still fail to see why Analogue 'needed' to be shut down, at least beyond the metro areas...

[Eevo]

I still fail to see why Analogue 'needed' to be shut down, at least beyond the metro areas...

expensive to run.

[superquag]

More solar panels ? :p

[AndyG]

Spectrum is limited, more concurrent users with digital, and better data transfer, range is the big loser

[JDNSW]

Interesting article on the radio this morning - about the Gulargambone area (NW NSW) but I suspect repeated elsewhere (pun intended). Someone has bought on ebay a repeater to improve their mobile and internet - killing connectivity for almost everyone else on the same tower.

Took a customer months of talking to the Philippines before they managed to talk to someone in Australia. ACMA refused to talk to them, and it took Telstra about six months to find the illegal repeater, by which time another one was active, which has still not been found.

People doing this should be aware that it could get expensive - the fine for the illegal repeater is up to $300,000.

John

[DiscoMick]

Not a repeater, but Telstra sells a booster for $900 which picks up an outside signal and boosts it to be heard better inside the house. Of course, you have to have an outside signal for it to work.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[Eevo]

Interesting article on the radio this morning - about the Gulargambone area (NW NSW) but I suspect repeated elsewhere (pun intended). Someone has bought on ebay a repeater to improve their mobile and internet - killing connectivity for almost everyone else on the same tower.

Took a customer months of talking to the Philippines before they managed to talk to someone in Australia. ACMA refused to talk to them, and it took Telstra about six months to find the illegal repeater, by which time another one was active, which has still not been found.

People doing this should be aware that it could get expensive - the fine for the illegal repeater is up to $300,000.

John
i know where Gulargambone is!
my grandfather was born there.

interesting the ACMA refused to talk to them, although slow, they are usually pretty keen to help when it comes to illegal repeaters.

[Eevo]

Not a repeater, but Telstra sells a booster for $900 which picks up an outside signal and boosts it to be heard better inside the house. Of course, you have to have an outside signal for it to work.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

other legit companies sell them too, not just telstra.

[squizzyhunter]

I'm tend to agree with the sample of responses as that's the beauty of going out there is to be away from internet ect. Learn to use HF ect. But I suppose this is a rather romantic notion and probably not the case if you live and work in the outback. So I suppose it's us that go there for recreation that don't mind, or even enjoy the lack of coverage. But if people that live and work out there would be better off with it then have at it.

[Eevo]

does HF still require a licence to use?

[squizzyhunter]

does HF still require a licence to use?

Yes but they have broken it down so it is more accessible now with the foundation licence(restricted power ect) to ge people into it. Before progressing to standard or advanced. Foundation is good enough but standard = better options

[Eevo]

Yes but they have broken it down so it is more accessible now with the foundation licence(restricted power ect) to ge people into it. Before progressing to standard or advanced. Foundation is good enough but standard = better options

any licence requirement will turn people off.

[squizzyhunter]

any licence requirement will turn people off.

Yes very true but a necessity in HF to not cause interference. Think about some of the idiots that are on UHF these days, imagine they had the range of 3000Kms+ and were on the same freq as Aviation, emergency networks ect.

[Eevo]

Yes very true but a necessity in HF to not cause interference. Think about some of the idiots that are on UHF these days, imagine they had the range of 3000Kms+ and were on the same freq as Aviation, emergency networks ect.

oh sure, i understand the technical reason why it should have a licence for use.

[stewie110]

Latency is not a serious problem except for interactive applications, especially gaming, but also such things as last minute bidding on auctions.

I agree that it is not a serious problem unless doing interactive applications (voice, video, gaming). It is going to cause problems for many people. It will not be possible for most people to utilise their "available" bandwidth if the latency is high thanks to bandwidth-delay product (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth-delay_product). HTTP/2 will help solve some of these problems by allowing for servers to push content to end users* but it's unlikely to have any impact in the immediate term (2-5 years) as adoption of new standards take time.

I also agree with your point regarding weak quotas from ISP's. It is not ideal to have such a small quota particularly for a general family who would have at least two mobile devices and at least one home computer. I suffer in an area with a relatively high population density and no fixed internet service availability which means I need to use LTE based services with poor quotas (25GB costs me $80/month). While the service is extremely fast even in peak times the quota has been blown numerous times by systems applying security updates. When I had security updates disabled to save quota my wife's Windows 8.x system was exploited through a web browser exploit delivered by a "trusted" advertising network (yahoo). We have since turned back on auto-updates and have to buy additional addon data bundles if we need to go over the quota. This type of shuffle would be a total catastrophe for many users who have less flexibility in their monthly expenses.

One winning point of NBN over the LTE scenario I just mentioned is that at least many consumer ISP's have "free sites (http://freezone.iinet.net.au/#/)" which often include some service patches out-of-quota. I am unsure if these apply to NBN satellite users though.

[DiscoMick]

Here's another story about how this is a real problem for rural residents, whose efforts to fix it can also cause problems.
Illegal internet boosters block rural access, adding insult to injury for farmers with poor coverage - ABC Rural (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-28/illegal-internet-boosters-interfere-rural-service/7118002)

[JDNSW]

I agree that it is not a serious problem unless doing interactive applications (voice, video, gaming). It is going to cause problems for many people. It will not be possible for most people to utilise their "available" bandwidth if the latency is high thanks to bandwidth-delay product (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth-delay_product). HTTP/2 will help solve some of these problems by allowing for servers to push content to end users* but it's unlikely to have any impact in the immediate term (2-5 years) as adoption of new standards take time.

I also agree with your point regarding weak quotas from ISP's. It is not ideal to have such a small quota particularly for a general family who would have at least two mobile devices and at least one home computer. I suffer in an area with a relatively high population density and no fixed internet service availability which means I need to use LTE based services with poor quotas (25GB costs me $80/month). While the service is extremely fast even in peak times the quota has been blown numerous times by systems applying security updates. When I had security updates disabled to save quota my wife's Windows 8.x system was exploited through a web browser exploit delivered by a "trusted" advertising network (yahoo). We have since turned back on auto-updates and have to buy additional addon data bundles if we need to go over the quota. This type of shuffle would be a total catastrophe for many users who have less flexibility in their monthly expenses.

One winning point of NBN over the LTE scenario I just mentioned is that at least many consumer ISP's have "free sites (http://freezone.iinet.net.au/#/)" which often include some service patches out-of-quota. I am unsure if these apply to NBN satellite users though.

Satellite NBN will not include any "free sites" and even if these were provided by RSPs, they would still count in the mandatory data cap. And if you breach the data cap there is no possibility of buying addon data, as NBN will heavily penalise the RSP for such breaches (with the current interim service the subscriber is reduced to dialup speed for a month, and slowed further or disconnected if usage continues to exceed the cap - this is done by NBN not the RSP). NBN has learned from the interim satellite fiasco, where some RSPs allowed large plans which resulted in congestion, so this time they are applying draconian financial penalties to the RSPs to make sure they enforce the data caps.

My sympathy for your cost of data - I pay the same for 30GB - but only 10GB is available in peak hours. And I get 5/1 speeds and 6-700ms latency. At least you have the prospects of an improved service some time in the future - my long term satellite future differs mainly in that it will be 25/5, but effectively the data will be the same - the peak hours will change from the current 1300-2300 to 0700-0100, so that the off peak data will be virtually useless. For the same money though I will get 30GB peak data, so I won't actually be worse off, just insignificantly better off.

John

[Eevo]

Here's another story about how this is a real problem for rural residents, whose efforts to fix it can also cause problems.
Illegal internet boosters block rural access, adding insult to injury for farmers with poor coverage - ABC Rural (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-28/illegal-internet-boosters-interfere-rural-service/7118002)

its a tough one, as telstra cant force someone to turn off an illegal repeater, nor fine someone for running one.

[JDNSW]

its a tough one, as telstra cant force someone to turn off an illegal repeater, nor fine someone for running one.

No, but ACMA can and will. Fine can be $300,000 plus confiscation of the repeater. But ACMA relies on Telstra to find the repeater, which is easier said than done.

John

[Eevo]

No, but ACMA can and will. Fine can be $300,000 plus confiscation of the repeater. But ACMA relies on Telstra to find the repeater, which is easier said than done.

John

ACMA are slow to act.
ACMA are meant to do the finding.
telstra are trying to hand the evidence on a platter for the ACMA

[JDNSW]

ACMA are slow to act.
ACMA are meant to do the finding.
telstra are trying to hand the evidence on a platter for the ACMA

ACMA have no rural presence! As with so much else - doesn't matter, its only the bush - they have no political power.

John

[Eevo]

ACMA have no rural presence! As with so much else - doesn't matter, its only the bush - they have no political power.

John

they shoudnt need political power to do their job.
and now back to the real world.

[SouthOz]

I just had a quick read of this and it seem a lot of people saying "Im glad to be out of mobile range"

You can be out of range anywhere. Just turn it off. Simple.:)

Dave

[stewie110]

I just had a quick read of this and it seem a lot of people saying "Im glad to be out of mobile range"

You can be out of range anywhere. Just turn it off. Simple.:)

Dave
You and your non technical solutions to technical problems.. [emoji12]

[DiscoMick]

Here's another potential answer to remote broadband problems - eternal planes. Solar powered planes which can stay aloft indefinitely already exist. The problem at the moment is they have enough payload to carry cameras, but not enough for broadband equipment. Maybe one day...


MoD to buy high-flying solar planes - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35478489)

[ramblingboy42]

The RAAF have some spare drones lying around at Woomera.(did you know this?)

Maybe they could use them for the good cause.

...or are they spying on people?

[MrLandy]

I just had a quick read of this and it seem a lot of people saying "Im glad to be out of mobile range"

You can be out of range anywhere. Just turn it off. Simple.:)

Dave

Nice. True. But there's still nothing like having no option to turn it on. Bliss.

However, there are many communities with no reliable internet and the growing expectation by all that we all have connection is a huge disadvantage for those without. Virtually all services are internet based now. Governments have a responsibility to provide / facilitate NBN for all communities in Australia for this reason IMO.