Once you go BAS .... You can never go back!

[tact]

Well you "can" - but you won't like it! ;)

Been enjoying a BAS 170hp Autobiography (V2) tune, complete with the required larger intercooler, for about the last 6mths and approx 10,000km.

Am taking the vehicle to Land Rover Malaysia tomorrow as they (and LR international) agreed to replace my 10AS security module. (Nothing wrong with the current 10AS - just that they can't provide me with the EKA for that one)

Pete Bell advised it best to refit the original ECU temporarily - as it is not "unlocked" and may be important to get it registered with the new security module by LR.

Later I can put the unlocked ECU with the BAS tune back on and the RRC tool can handle registering the unlocked ECU to the new 10AS security module.

Took the vehicle for a test drive just now after putting the original 120hp ECU back into service.

Oh how I miss the BAS Autobiography tune!!!

[Beery]

I can only agree with you about V2 of the 170hp tune!
Its like he's fixed the whole vehicle all over again. I can almost drive 'normally' in 1st and 2nd! The jerking from the sloppy driveline has nearly been overcome.

I don't really need or choose to use all the power/torque from the tune but it also makes a huge difference to drivability through light and medium throttle.

Its also good for a laugh when a rice cooker pulls out to overtake on a hill and they start blowing smoke like a, well, rice cooker and nothing happens.

[PAT303]

I'd be curious to know how the TDCi with this tune stacks up against a V8 LC while towing. Pat

[tact]

I'd be curious to know how the TDCi with this tune stacks up against a V8 LC while towing. Pat

Numbers are not the final word on "real world" experience behind the wheel. But as a start point:

Toyota info from Toyota AU web page for the 70 Series
4.5 litre V8 Turbo-diesel engine
151kW (ed: ~202hp) power
Powerful 430Nm of torque

TDCi w/- BAS 170 Autobiography
2.2 litre inline 4cyl turbo-diesel
(~127kW) 170hp
450Nm torque


T'would seem the V8 has a lot of scope for for a tuner to make it breathe fire!

[Beery]

I'd be curious to know how the TDCi with this tune stacks up against a V8 LC while towing. Pat

I think it would still feel a lot easier with the V8. Even though the d4d is no engineering masterpiece, the cubes are always going to make lighter work of it.
The 2.2 punches a couple of classes above its weight though.

[PAT303]

In standard form the TDCi always has the right gear,with near V8 performance it would really show it's hand,the D4D on the other hand has a gearbox that is happy to sit on 80 in fourth or over rev in 5th. Pat

[tact]

So after swapping the stock ECU back into the vehicle on Wed last week, took it to Land Rover Malaysia early Thursday morning.

Sadly they had some issues and couldn't get the new 10AS to talk to the rest of the car's systems. So they backed out, put the original 10AS back in and asked me to come collect the vehicle. Maybe a week or more before they might want to try again.

So the last few days been driving with the stock ECU in place thinking I can bear with it for a week or two.

Yeah yeah - Nah. Wasn't working for me. After I put the kettle on for breakfast coffee this morning I grabbed the two 'ners and a screw driver and had the other ECU (with BAS 170 Autobiography V2 tune) reinstalled before the kettle boiled!

Ahhhh..... Feeling much better now. ;)

[Babs]

Ha ha ha. ✅

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[Beery]

One thing I've noticed with the new 170 map is that it doesn't seem to have the fire breathing switch at about 75% throttle any more. It seems to have been spread out more.

The 150 map still does it though!

[cafe latte]

Numbers are not the final word on "real world" experience behind the wheel. But as a start point:

Toyota info from Toyota AU web page for the 70 Series
4.5 litre V8 Turbo-diesel engine
151kW (ed: ~202hp) power
Powerful 430Nm of torque

TDCi w/- BAS 170 Autobiography
2.2 litre inline 4cyl turbo-diesel
(~127kW) 170hp
450Nm torque


T'would seem the V8 has a lot of scope for for a tuner to make it breathe fire!
The Toyota is a LOT heaver though. My friend has a 70 series and we were talking about a local hill called Gentle Annie. Gentle Annie is anything but gentle it is long and steep. Anyway he asked me how my Defender handled the hill, I said that I can leave it in top gear (6th) and that I only started to slightly slow down at the top, in 5th I can do 100 all the way to the top. He said that in his 76 series he has to change down otherwise it struggles. My Defender is stock standard and his 76 series is a lot more powerful than the Defender, but it seems that the Defender pulls better so it has to be power to weight ratio. I wonder how much more power the Toyota would need to pull better than the Bas tune?
Chris

[tact]

One thing I've noticed with the new 170 map is that it doesn't seem to have the fire breathing switch at about 75% throttle any more. It seems to have been spread out more.

The 150 map still does it though!

I think you are right there Beery. One of the emails I exchanged with Pete Bell when the V2 first came out, congratulating him on making an already smooth experience smoother - he responded that there is still the same mid-range max power available.

It must be that the rate of rise to max has been spread more.

That said tho.... there is still a heck of a sweet RUSH from anywhere above about 1500rpm if you give the full boot.

[tact]

Just thinking out loud, reflecting on the brief few days driving the vehicle after the tune "downgrade":

I thought the experience of going back to standard tune would have been more of a "shock" than it was. Just saying that even in standard tune the 2.2l TDCi is a willing worker.

For sure the controlled smoothness around throttle response of the AB tune was missing.

I guess what is happening is that even with the BAS AB tune and all the extra oomph available, largely around the daily commute I don't actually call on it.

In that role, not a lot of performance being asked for, the stock tune is ample to get the vehicle percolating along as briskly as the BAS tune. No doubt you don't have to be Sherlock to figure that out.

Apart from smoothness the only other noticeable difference is that it seems I have slipped into a bad habit when driving with the BAS tune - shifting up too early, operating too long, too low, in the rev range.

What I mean is:
With the stock tune I routinely change up a gear between 2500-3500 RPM when just percolating along.

With the BAS tune I seem to have drifted into a pattern of changing up a gear at around 2000 RPM when just percolating along (most of my driving). Not a conscious decision, just a matter of it feels ok. The vehicle is not struggling at all.

Of course this gives the impression that with the stock tune the 2.2l is "busier" and louder in a sense. Whereas with the BAS tune it is more relaxed and refined.

Operating this engine below 2000RPM for much of the time doesn't seem a good idea when I think about it.

So once I changed back to the BAS tune I have been conscious of the tendency to comfortably short shift at low revs - and try to make sure that I keep the engine percolating at or above 2000RPM most of the time.

[karlz]

Just installed the 150hp tonight.
Took it for a test run, and didnt really notice much in 1st.
Once in 2nd, it just revs out quick, 3rd takes off and 4th pulls really quick. 5th from 80 is also great.

I'm a happy customer. 80-100 is a lot quicker, perfect.

Anyone also note the sound is different at higher revs? Its louder.

[MrLandy]

Just installed the 150hp tonight.
Took it for a test run, and didnt really notice much in 1st.
Once in 2nd, it just revs out quick, 3rd takes off and 4th pulls really quick. 5th from 80 is also great.

I'm a happy customer. 80-100 is a lot quicker, perfect.

Anyone also note the sound is different at higher revs? Its louder.

Does the 150 improve overall driveability 1st to 2nd to 3rd in your opinion?

A side question Karlz: do you still have all eight of those Land Rovers?

[karlz]

Does the 150 improve overall driveability 1st to 2nd to 3rd in your opinion?

A side question Karlz: do you still have all eight of those Land Rovers?

1st to second is so quick now, I played around with taking off in 2nd and its a lot easier now than it was before.
2nd to 3rd is so much faster as well, it just revs out quick in second, before you know it you have to go into 3rd.
3rd is where you first really notice the extra grunt.
The car feels now better to run in 5th, on 70kph+ roads, and in 5th it accelerates quickly.

The only landy I have now is the defender, marked in bold.
I had the Disco until a few months ago. I sold the Disco because I wanted a defender again, its just more me. I dont reget it, and each addition (endless I think) I make to the Defender makes me smile.

[tact]

Does the 150 improve overall driveability 1st to 2nd to 3rd in your opinion?


If it's a 150 Autobiography tune (I had this and then upgraded to 170 Autobiography) - then yes, the vehicle is much smoother to drive when purring along slow speed, low throttle openings. Ie traffic jams etc

As Karlz has commented if you have loud pedal to the floor you barely get time for a blink in 1st gear before grabbing 2nd, maybe a blink and a half before you have to grab 3rd.

As smooth as the AB tunes are - The 170 Autobiography (V2) is even smoother again. Never thought it possible... but it is.

[MrLandy]

If it's a 150 Autobiography tune (I had this and then upgraded to 170 Autobiography) - then yes, the vehicle is much smoother to drive when purring along slow speed, low throttle openings. Ie traffic jams etc

As Karlz has commented if you have loud pedal to the floor you barely get time for a blink in 1st gear before grabbing 2nd, maybe a blink and a half before you have to grab 3rd.

As smooth as the AB tunes are - The 170 Autobiography (V2) is even smoother again. Never thought it possible... but it is.

So is there enough torque to start off in 2nd mostly then Tact? 1st to second is already very short as it is standard.

[tact]

So is there enough torque to start off in 2nd mostly then Tact? 1st to second is already very short as it is standard.

I used to take off in second (no throttle at all) with stock tune occasionally. Mostly if the start was going to be easy (level or downhill, no rush etc). Even then you have to have a little focus on careful clutch control.

With the 150AB tune I found that 2nd gear starts (no throttle at all) on easy starts (level or downhill, no rush etc) requires almost no thought at all for the clutch. Not meaning you can dump it. Just meaning no special care... Normal no-need-to-think-about-it clutch handling. A bit of focus needed for faster or easy uphill starts. (No throttle)

With the 170AB tune it's pretty much same grunt as 150AB from idle to 1500rpm with the requisite zero to mild throttle openings that are part of a normal smooth take off.


If you were going to think about 0-100 times (yeah yeah yeah... I know) then for best results you might take off in 2nd gear also - with an abundance of revs.

Stock tune: yeah yeah
150AB: whoosh!
170AB: OMG have I smoked the clutch! (It's NOT up to it). :twisted:

[AndyG]

Did Bas do a V2 of the 150 tune

[karlz]

I used to take off in second (no throttle at all) with stock tune occasionally. Mostly if the start was going to be easy (level or downhill, no rush etc). Even then you have to have a little focus on careful clutch control.

With the 150AB tune I found that 2nd gear starts (no throttle at all) on easy starts (level or downhill, no rush etc) requires almost no thought at all for the clutch. ......

Same thoughts as me.

I havent tried the 170, 150 is good enough for me :)))))

[MrLandy]

I used to take off in second (no throttle at all) with stock tune occasionally. Mostly if the start was going to be easy (level or downhill, no rush etc). Even then you have to have a little focus on careful clutch control.

With the 150AB tune I found that 2nd gear starts (no throttle at all) on easy starts (level or downhill, no rush etc) requires almost no thought at all for the clutch. Not meaning you can dump it. Just meaning no special care... Normal no-need-to-think-about-it clutch handling. A bit of focus needed for faster or easy uphill starts. (No throttle)

With the 170AB tune it's pretty much same grunt as 150AB from idle to 1500rpm with the requisite zero to mild throttle openings that are part of a normal smooth take off.


If you were going to think about 0-100 times (yeah yeah yeah... I know) then for best results you might take off in 2nd gear also - with an abundance of revs.

Stock tune: yeah yeah
150AB: whoosh!
170AB: OMG have I smoked the clutch! (It's NOT up to it). :twisted:

So how is clutch reliability looking with 170 tune then, if it's not up to it? Also clutch wear starting in second gear?

It doesn't feel right in terms of torque or clutch to start in second with standard tune.

[tact]

So how is clutch reliability looking with 170 tune then, if it's not up to it? Also clutch wear starting in second gear?

It doesn't feel right in terms of torque or clutch to start in second with standard tune.

Clutch seems to be handling the power/torque just fine.
- how much clutch wear can there be starting in second with no throttle? It's not like you go down the road slipping the clutch any distance.

"...it's not up to it": the "it" referred to is trying to do a fast standing start 0-100 "launch" with the 170 tune. the stock clutch is not meant for that.

[tact]

Did Bas do a V2 of the 150 tune

Not that I am aware of

[Babs]

So how is clutch reliability looking with 170 tune then, if it's not up to it? Also clutch wear starting in second gear? It doesn't feel right in terms of torque or clutch to start in second with standard tune.


Mr L no probs on the clutch, unless you're dropping it like a hot potato, then it wouldn't matter if it was the standard or the remap, dropping it wouldn't be good for it long term.

1st - 2nd is still short but a hell of a lot faster, me personally noticed the most difference when I went to the 170. On the 150 I found it mediocre yes there was more power but didn't get me too excited. The 170 on the other hand put a huge smile on my face.

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[tact]

[...]On the 150 I found it mediocre yes there was more power but didn't get me too excited. The 170 on the other hand put a huge smile on my face.

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Sorta the same here. I went 150 first. Thinking was I wanted the smoother driving experience and EGR closed. Not looking for more power. But the extra oomph the 150 gave did get me yearning and ordered the 170 upgrade and allisport intercooler very soon after.

[tact]

One last update on this thread....(which started out as a story about the getting of an EKA)

Put the defender back into LR Malaysia's hands again a few days ago. This time to replace the 10AS and the instrument ECU with new units with a known EKA.

Something to note all MY2013 owners: Apparently the 10AS for this model is no longer available new. LR instead installed a 2015 version which also required some change to the wiring loom and provision of two new remote control fobs. The change to a 2015 10AS also drove the need to replace the instrument ECU too.

Despite it taking near 2yrs to get an EKA I do still think highly of LR in general and LR Malaysia for seeing this through. A few failed attempts and then complete ECU(s) replacement - all free of charge to me.

Collected the vehigle back this afternoon, with EKA provided!, and all seems well and good.

Of course I swapped out the BAS ECU and swapped in the original ECU for the exercise.

When I got the vehicle home I reversed that and reinstalled the BAS ECU. I thought it may be tricky to link the BAS ECU to the new 10AS but not so. Its an extremely simple process.

Very happy now!