New Series 2A owner

[86mud]

Hi all,

After being sad from selling my 109 Series 3 trayback last year, I have been wanting to get another Series.

Well, Friday afternoon, my luck changed. I received a phone call from a mate saying he is doing a job (he's installs air con) at a property on Brisbane's northside and there is a Series 3 wagon sitting under a tree in the back yard. The owner is not sure what to do with it (its been under the tree for 8 years) So I drive over to have a look at it and two hours later, it's on a tilt tray and heading for my house.

Rego papers show it is a 1964. I was initially confused by the Series 3 front, and the inside is Series 2 dash. Upon further inspection I find Army ID plates and other Army indentification marks on the vehicle like the CIG badge on the door sill.

I looked on REMLR to find out more on the FTT.

Anybody shed some light on this vehicle?

Chassis number is 25316842C and Engine number (4cyl petrol) is 25177121F

Firewall is badly rusted and the door tops and bottom frames are rusty as well. But the chassis is great! It's been coated in red oxide at some stage. It has 32 x 11.50 tyres on it - nearly brand new!! It was a beach vehicle for a while, but must have been a handful to drive on this tyres. I will go to a smaller sized tyre.

The plan is to repair firewall insitu by welding in new pieces, new door bottoms and tops, new seats (take it back to three seater), and get it driving, I've gone around and coated everthing in lanolan just to slow the rust down.

I have already removed the roof rack, given it a bath and started to cut and polish the paintwork. Will just respray the roof.

Am off now to get spark plugs, leads coil etc and will try to crank it over.

Thanks

[86mud]

more pics...

[JDNSW]

The position of the dip switch certainly is consistent with its being ex-army, but a lot of the bodywork, including doors, hinges, front guards, appear to be S3. And the paintwork on the rear body shows no signs of olive drab, suggesting that the tub is S3 too.

John

[The ho har's]

Congratulations Andrew:D about time you another series.:)

Mrs hh:angel:

[67hardtop]

The position of the dip switch certainly is consistent with its being ex-army, but a lot of the bodywork, including doors, hinges, front guards, appear to be S3. And the paintwork on the rear body shows no signs of olive drab, suggesting that the tub is S3 too.

John

I have a feeling it may indeed be a s3 with a s2a firewall. It still has a s3 steering column as well. Also it has an emissions engine fitted.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[86mud]

That is right, I can not find any evidence of olive drab paint anywhere.

What's the difference between a S2 and S3 chassis?

So am I to assume this has been rebodied with S3 panels, except firewall?

Thanks Carolyn! How busy is Harry at the moment? :D

[The ho har's]

Not too busy :D

Mrs hh :angel:

[Dinty]

Well, unless my eyesight is failing me, the chassis number given by you 25316842c according to REMLR.com ARN list, this was a S2A 109 4 Stretcher Ambulance ARN 114-188 it's original engine was 25251164H, from your images it doesn't appear to have a S2A mil/chassis (from the front) hope that is of some help in trying to sort out it's heritage, cheers Dennis

[The ho har's]

Have you checked the Chassis number on the chassis?

Mrs hh:angel:

[JDNSW]

The chassis number on the chassis is the only one that matters. Should be on the outside of the LH rear back spring hanger (assuming it is Australian built). This will tell us immediately whether it is Series 2a or 3.

If indeed it is a Series 3 with a Series 2a firewall, this introduces a serious problem with registration, as it probably does not meet all ADRs applicable to it.

The presence of extended spring hangers and shackles will identify it as military.

John

[The ho har's]

The chassis number on the chassis is the only one that matters. Should be on the outside of the LH rear back spring hanger (assuming it is Australian built). This will tell us immediately whether it is Series 2a or 3.

If indeed it is a Series 3 with a Series 2a firewall, this introduces a serious problem with registration, as it probably does not meet all ADRs applicable to it.

The presence of extended spring hangers and shackles will identify it as military.

John

That's what is worrying me also:(

Mrs hh:angel:

[86mud]

I'll check in the morning for the chassis number on the actual chassis.

It was last registered in QLD in 2008 and since then it has been parked under a tree.

Actually, it's personalised registration plates were "dodgy" so maybe that relates to the way it has been put together. All the panels are very straight and there are no obvious signs in the panel gaps etc that is a bitza slapped together. I would not have bought it. It looks very complete and unmolested.

Thanks Carolyn, I'll give you a call tomorrow.

[67hardtop]

The series 2a chassis is a "box welded" design and series 3 is a " clam shell" design.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[JDNSW]

The series 2a chassis is a "box welded" design and series 3 is a " clam shell" design.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

Good point, but note that this applies only to lwb (which this is), with all 88s being welded boxes. And I seem to remember that early Series 3, perhaps about the first year, had the welded box. As with most other detail features, they tend not to change right at the change in Series!

But the legal determinant is the number stamped on the chassis.

Just because it is a bitza does not necessarily mean it is a badly built bitza.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The series 2a chassis is a "box welded" design and series 3 is a " clam shell" design.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile appGood point, but note that this applies only to lwb (which this is), with all 88s being welded boxes. And I seem to remember that early Series 3, perhaps about the first year, had the welded box. As with most other detail features, they tend not to change right at the change in Series!

But the legal determinant is the number stamped on the chassis.

Just because it is a bitza does not necessarily mean it is a badly built bitza.

JohnMore than that some of the very early SIII 109 still had the welded box section.

[86mud]

Hi all, a quick update

I still haven't checked the chassis number. I will try tonight.

I was more focused on getting it started and running, which i did! Very proud of myself. So after nearly 10 years of sitting under a tree, she runs...and runs very well!

Before I attempted to start it, I replaced the spark plugs and coil, checked the distributor, topped up all fluids and put fresh fuel in the petrol tank (and a little down the carby), put in a battery and turned the key - there was nothing! The solenoid on the firewall clicked but the starter did not want to turn.

So out came the crank handle. Also out came the can of "start ya bastard" and after numerous attempts at handcranking (compression was very good), checking for spark and fuel, a closer look at the carby determined that the choke flaps were jammed open and after partially covering the opening, she fired!

After a period of warming up, and once it got hot it idled perfectly. Water pump bearing was noisy and leaky, but apart from that, it revved and idled nicely. I decided to turn it off and try the starter motor...well it decided to work as well!

So it was test drive time. I went around the block and everything worked surprisingly well. I need to bleed the clutch as there is not much pedal there. Someone has added a remote booster to the brakes so the pedal feel was good and the brakes were very effective. I'll checks all the brakes.

So now it is time to work out where to start with this. I guess initially is to make it driveable and get it registered.

[86mud]

I've checked the number stamped on the rear LH spring hanger and it is N80602049P...... this does not look right



Thanks

[JDNSW]

That is a number allocated by NSW authorities (NSW Police), and the NSW authority (RMS) should have details of it. This should establish the legal identity of the vehicle.

The usual reason for these numbers being allocated is that the vehicle was presented for registration and no number could be found on the chassis. This may be because the relevant chassis section had been replaced, or simply (as with my 2a) they did not know where to look. But it could have been allocated to a "bitza".

I'm not sure they still do this since the introduction of the blue slip system, but I'm guessing the number would have been allocated some time not later than the early nineties.

John

[86mud]

Hi John

In my first post, I listed the chassis number and the engine number that I read from the rego papers (QLD) that the previous owner gave me. It was last registered in 2008 in QLD.

This is really confusing!

I was looking in the dark last night with a torch. The chassis number in my post last night was read from the actual leaf spring hanger. There looks like there may be a stamped number on the the actual chassis above the weld where the leaf spring hanger is attached.

I'll try to gently hand sand some paint away to get a better look.

The plot thickens!

Thanks

[JDNSW]

The number is usually on the vertical bit of the spring hanger that the shackle is attached to at the back of the LH rear spring. Your desription of where you found the N*****P number fits this. But it is quite possible that the number was put on the other bit during production - or even copied there prior to replacement of the other bit due to rust or damage.

John

[86mud]

I had a few hours on the weekend so I took the tarp off Bitza. I removed the front drivers wheel and checked the brakes. I was pleasantly surprised at the state of the shoes, cylinders and brake hose - all in good condition. Nothing to do here but clean out the brake dust, then sand and paint the drum.

I also straightened the bull bar (had been hit on the corner and was close to the body) and replaced all the front lights. I'll start from the front and work my way back!

I will need to replace all the suspension components including the leaf springs as they are badly rusted.

What's everyone's thoughts on parabolic leaf springs?

[Homestar]

If you have the money, Parabolics are the way to go.

Oh, and personally, I'd ditch those Selectro hubs too - they aren't the strongest things known to man - out of the 2 sets I've had on cars I've bought, both sets had one in many pieces inside after it went bang.

[86mud]

Hi Gav...funny you mention the hubs. The passenger is a different brand. Might even be Warn?

What's another option?

[Aaron IIA]

Original solid drive flanges.

Aaron

[Homestar]

Yep, as Aaron said - solid drive flanges that the vehicle would have come with originally.

Something like this - Drive Flange Land Rover Series 2 2a and 3 10 Spline Front or Rear Axle (http://www.allfourx4.com.au/Drive-Flange-Land-Rover-Series-2-2a-and-3-10-Spline-Front-or-Rear-Axle)

They aren't cheap, but if you can find some second hand ones, all the better - front and rears are the same, so have a look at how your back axle is driven - same deal up front.

The Warn hub locks are much stronger I've been told - I've only had experience with the selectro ones. Without 2 though, not much point. There isn't really anything to be gains from these, I'd just go back to the drive flanges - you get proper lubrication to all the front bits then while just driving around day to day too. :)

[gromit]

Flanges are cheaper out of the UK especially if you need to order other parts to spread the freight costs.

571235 | Drive Flange 10 spline - Paddock Spares (http://www.paddockspares.com/571235-drive-flange-10-spline.html)

With freewheel hubs if you don't engage them they don't break........

Colin

[86mud]

thanks guys, I'm happy to go back to standard drive flanges. I'll add those to the list!

[86mud]

I had a chance today to dig a bit deeper in an effort to find out the history of this vehicle.

Going by the rego papers that I received from the previous owner showing that it was last registered in QLD in 2008 and using the REMLR database:

Chassis Number (as per rego papers): 25316842c belongs to 114-188 109 1966 Ambulance 3/4 ton GS 4 Stretcher and should have engine 25251164H

Engine Number (as per rego papers):25177121F belongs to 113-585 109 1964 Truck Utility 3/4 Ton GS Fitted for Transmission (FFT)

The Nomenclature plate attached to the firewall (Refer my first lot of pictures) mentions "Truck Utility 3/4 Ton F.F.T. Land-rover Series 2A 109 Inch WB

So there is a link between the engine number and the nomenclature plate.

The plate also shows "Census No: 6006" and "Contract No: C112036", but I am unable to find any link between these numbers and the chassis/and or engine numbers mentioned above on REMLR.

I'll open the bonnet tonight and check the actual engine number.

This is a mystery.

[86mud]

The plot thickens...

On the nomenclature plate attached to the firewall, the chassis number is currently covered by a label (from a label maker) that has been affixed. It shows the chassis as N802049P which matches the number that has been stamped (freshly at some stage) on the rear spring hanger - but not the chassis number on the (QLD) transport registration certificate.

I removed this label last night from the nomenclature plate and saw the original chassis number - 25307374b

Now...looking at REMLR....we have a match! Vehicle 113-585 109 1964 Truck Utility 3/4 ton GS Fitted For Transmission.

So I have matching engine number and chassis number!

Someone has obviously gone to a lot of effort to rebody with Series 3 front, doors, rear body and roof. The firewall, floor, seat base, rear bulk head and inside the tub has been maticulously repainted in either bahama or camino gold - not sure which.

But looking closer (i'll get a picture tonight), the front guard tops look like there is reinforcing underneath and to me looks like a support for an antenna mount as per the pictures of FFT's on REMLR.

Thanks

[russellrovers]

The plot thickens...

On the nomenclature plate attached to the firewall, the chassis number is currently covered by a label (from a label maker) that has been affixed. It shows the chassis as N802049P which matches the number that has been stamped (freshly at some stage) on the rear spring hanger - but not the chassis number on the (QLD) transport registration certificate.

I removed this label last night from the nomenclature plate and saw the original chassis number - 25307374b

Now...looking at REMLR....we have a match! Vehicle 113-585 109 1964 Truck Utility 3/4 ton GS Fitted For Transmission.

So I have matching engine number and chassis number!

Someone has obviously gone to a lot of effort to rebody with Series 3 front, doors, rear body and roof. The firewall, floor, seat base, rear bulk head and inside the tub has been maticulously repainted in either bahama or camino gold - not sure which.

But looking closer (i'll get a picture tonight), the front guard tops look like there is reinforcing underneath and to me looks like a support for an antenna mount as per the pictures of FFT's on REMLR.

Thanksi have the parts you need jim

[86mud]

Hi all

Bit of an update. I am waiting on a few engine bits for I can start it again, so I thought I would tackle the rear of the vehicle.

I've installed new lights and put lights back into their original position. This of course left a hole so I plugged it with Defender reverse lights.

I am putting the number plate on the left rear panel like a Defender.

I am also in the process of fabricating a swingaway spare wheel carrier. I also fixed the tailgate so it shuts properly, replaced a heap of bolts with stainless, cleaned up the rear cross member and polished the paint and glass.

Progress!

[86mud]

Time for an update

Lots been happening all over the truck and way too much to list. Been busy replacing anything rubber, like door seals, brake and clutch hose etc. any bolt I touch gets replaced with stainless.

And now I have seats and seat belts!

Getting closer to being able to start it again. But I did find another patch of rust on the LH side of the chassis where the steering damper bracket bolts onto the chassis. So I'll cut that out this weekend. Still heaps to do including:

? Fit radiator and expansion tank, finish connecting hoses to heater
? Bleed brakes
? Bleed clutch
? Finish connecting fuel pump
? Put steering arms back in after painting and fitting new tie rod ends
? Put steering damper in
? Put steering wheel back on.
? Get lights working at the rear ? new parker lights are working, but need to install new switches and run new wiring for brake lights and reverse lights. Need to install new flasher unit for blinkers.
? Put fuel in the tank!


Ps...I've since removed the tow bar from the rear cross member as it was a hideous piece consisting of different pieces of steel all welded together. Weighed about 10kgs!

[JDNSW]

Something I should have commented on a while back - the chassis number N802049P is a number allocated by NSW police to a vehicle without a permanantly marked identifiable chassis number. It should be stamped somewhere on the chassis. The '80' would be the year it was allocated, which means the vehicle was in civilian life and NSW in 1980.

John

[Aaron IIA]

2049P is the oil filter number. Coincidence?

Aaron

[Aaron IIA]

Forget that. The oil filter is 2069P.

Aaron

[86mud]

Thanks John for that bit of history. I would like to know more about the vehicles' history. Rebuilding it has been a voyage of discovery that is for sure.