A Comprehensive Guide

[winaje]

Good evening all. This thread is devoted to producing a comprehensive how-to for putting a Territory motor into a late model D3. I plan to provide written instructions and pictures. The first 15 replies are being reserved at the suggestion of the mods so that it can be written without a break.

Background: The D3 update model (MY07-MY09) diesel engines are common with the Ford Territory TDCi - as they have the same Euro 4 motor in Australia (Thanks to Jonesy63 for the clarification). Basically you can buy a current model Territory (2016 or earlier) and the diesel fitted is the same as in the MY07-MY09 D3s. Thanks goes to a couple of members on this forum, and a few on a couple of the UK forums who have done the initial legwork in confirming that they fit.

My D3 had 350000kms on the clock when it made a ticking noise on the freeway and then was reluctant to start. I ended up getting it flat-bedded back to Melbourne. It's currently sitting on a concrete slab, and a mate and I will be doing the engine swap. I bought a 2015 Territory engine with 155kms (not 155000) on the clock for $4000 from a wrecker in Melbourne, including turbo, alternator, AC compressor, flexplate and manifolds. This should be the ideal donor motor.

I will be photographing and documenting the swap, and hopefully others will be able to use this information to do their own swaps as needed. My mate will also be offering this body on swap as a service on the Eastern side of Melbourne, once he has priced it up.

So hang tight, this will probably take a few weeks in total to carry out and write up.

Also, feel free to reply with any questions and I'll see if I can answer them along the way.

[winaje]

reserved 1

[Redback]

Looking forward to this Will and great pick up with the engine, $4000 for a TDV6 with 155ks is amazing.

[Owen]

Yep, well done on the engine....bodylogic kit from the uk and a drop in for my D2 or Classic rangie even !!!

[disco gazza]

Wish there was descent transfer case drop in for the early td6 L322. ;)

[PeterOZ]

First dot point should state have about $13k in your pocket :p

[rar110]

First dot point should state have about $13k in your pocket :p

It's a DIY job so doubt it will be too costly. The cost of the new motor is a good start.

Will, I'm looking forward to how you lift the body.

[LRD414]

Will, I'm looking forward to how you lift the body.


Plan is body on (see title) which I think is very interesting too. Plus how to deal with electrics, ECU etc.

Scott

[jonesy63]

Will - another thing to mention... the Territory TDCi motor will also suit the MY09-MY12 D4 2.7. So I am looking forward to progress reports! :cool:

[winaje]

Plan is body on (see title) which I think is very interesting too. Plus how to deal with electrics, ECU etc.

Scott

Now you've got me worried, from everything I have read it should be plug and play...???

[LRD414]

Now you've got me worried, from everything I have read it should be plug and play...???


Don't be worried mate, just a thought bubble from me. Plug and play would make sense if same Euro spec for both engines. So plan is to keep the original loom complete?

Scott

[winaje]

Don't be worried mate, just a thought bubble from me. Plug and play would make sense if same Euro spec for both engines. So plan is to keep the original loom complete?

Scott
Yep, that's the plan. Unplug everything, pull motor/transmission/transfer as unit, photograph everything and write it up, swap motor over and whatever else needs doing, reinstall...

Well, that's the plan...

[CU55TM Disco]

:BigThumb::BigThumb::BigThumb: Top Effort! :BigThumb::BigThumb::BigThumb:

[DazzaTD5]

Yep, that's the plan. Unplug everything, pull motor/transmission/transfer as unit, photograph everything and write it up, swap motor over and whatever else needs doing, reinstall...

Well, that's the plan...

If its only a engine change, leave the transmission in situ, its a doddle to unbolt the engine from the transmission and bolt in the new engine, certainly far easier than separating the two if removed as a complete unit.

Regards
Daz

P.S On reading the tittle I see your doing the engine swap with body left on, so hrmm my info above may be pointless, while the bolts on the bottom of the bell housing are easy, the top ones you might not have the room. With what u have saved with getting an engine, you could afford to buy a vehicle hoist :)

P.S and dont be tempted to bolt the basic engine in then try putting all the ancillary parts on, its far easier to have the engine as a complete unit with all bits attached before fitting the engine, as seen in this pic: https://www.facebook.com/aztech4x4/photos/pcb.916678918404924/916677968405019/'type=3&theater

[DazzaTD5]

Now you've got me worried, from everything I have read it should be plug and play...???

I'd suggest for compatibility that you use all the ancillary parts from the D3 original engine, unless you know as fact a particular part is the same, this would include but not limited to; (at the very least compare part numbers of components).

*Hoses & piping, intake, inlet.
*Fuel system.
*Alternator & Starter motor.
*Engine electrical harness/es, sensors.
*EGR & manifolds.
*Flex plate.

Regards
Daz

[winaje]

...
P.S On reading the tittle I see your doing the engine swap with body left on, so hrmm my info above may be pointless, while the bolts on the bottom of the bell housing are easy, the top ones you might not have the room. With what u have saved with getting an engine, you could afford to buy a vehicle hoist :)

P.S and dont be tempted to bolt the basic engine in then try putting all the ancillary parts on, its far easier to have the engine as a complete unit with all bits attached before fitting the engine, as seen in this pic: https://www.facebook.com/aztech4x4/photos/pcb.916678918404924/916677968405019/'type=3&theater

Thanks for the info. While it'd be great to have a hoist and do it body off, at the moment the shed is only 1/3 built and the hoist is not yet installed. Also we are working on documenting the body on version so that those who don't have hoist access can use the info to DIY...


I'd suggest for compatibility that you use all the ancillary parts from the D3 original engine, unless you know as fact a particular part is the same, this would include but not limited to; (at the very least compare part numbers of components).

*Hoses & piping, intake, inlet.
*Fuel system.
*Alternator & Starter motor.
*Engine electrical harness/es, sensors.
*EGR & manifolds.
*Flex plate.

Regards
Daz

We'll be doing that, thanks. Hopefully the majority if not all the new parts can be used, either as a whole assembly, or sections, such as starter motor guts and gears, even if the casing is different.

Edit: feel like I'm trying to teach grandma how to suck eggs, didn't realise you were a mechanic until I saw the picture in your post...

[DazzaTD5]

Edit: feel like I'm trying to teach grandma how to suck eggs, didn't realise you were a mechanic until I saw the picture in your post...

Not at all, while i'd never try what you are doing (nor would anyone doing it for a living I assume) as it just takes far too long and would blow out the cost of a job, I will no doubt find it interesting.

Regards
Daz

[winaje]

Not at all, while i'd never try what you are doing (nor would anyone doing it for a living I assume) as it just takes far too long and would blow out the cost of a job, I will no doubt find it interesting.

Regards
Daz

No worries Daz. Yeah I fully understand that this is not the most economical method if you're paying someone. However, as my time is "free" on weekends and after hours, and we don't (yet) have hoist access, I thought it'd be a good opportunity to write up the job for those in a similar situation. I also make about 1/4 to 1/5 per hour of what a mainstream dealership charges, so can't afford to pay their rates, or even indie rates unfortunately.

[Timmy]

Why don't they work for the my05 - my06? Because they are euro3?
If so, is the base engine the same? Or not sure?

[winaje]

Why don't they work for the my05 - my06? Because they are euro3?
If so, is the base engine the same? Or not sure?
As far as I know, and don't quote me on this or take it as gospel, the core hardware of the engine is the same. But anything that has an electrical connection MAY be different, injectors for instance. You would need to do extensive research before committing to a purchase of a Euro 4 engine to replace a Euro 3 engine.

[Oztourer]

As far as I know, and don't quote me on this or take it as gospel, the core hardware of the engine is the same. But anything that has an electrical connection MAY be different, injectors for instance. You would need to do extensive research before committing to a purchase of a Euro 4 engine to replace a Euro 3 engine.

I'm going through the (very expensive) exercise of replacing an EU3 motor at the moment and I asked the same question. Will is on the money. At the interfaces, the EU4 is very different to the EU3, both electrically and mechanically (at least for the exhaust/turbo manifolds and possibly air intake). I believe the engine management computer is also different.

[winaje]

Step 1: Lift the body! Argggghhhhhh

OK, a little clarification. We have found so far that access is an absolute nightmare. The initial plan was to remove the motor only, but there is no access to a couple of bolts at the very top of the bell housing. So at this stage it looks like we will be pulling the whole motor/transmission/transfer case forward about 20cm, and separating the motor from the transmission. Then rest the transmission and transfer case on the cross member, lift the motor, swap stuff over, document etc. So hopefully it'll be done reasonably soon.

[DazzaTD5]

Basically any change in spec from say euro 3 to euro 4 etc etc on any engine regardless if thats a Land Rover, Jeep whatever, you will find changes to the basic electrical, computer management and ancillary mechanical components. this also goes for engines in the same spec, such as euro 3 but from another type of vehicle such as the 2.7lt TDV6 used in Land Rover D3 / Ford Territory or the 2.8lt VM used in Jeep JK Wrangler / jeep KK Cherokee / Holden Colorado.

I see this as a bit of a given but understand people asking the question.

A few weeks ago a repairer phoned me asking for help with regards to a customers Jeep KJ Cherokee CRD 2004 that needed a new engine, they fitted in (as in all bolted up to the tranny and engine mounts) an engine from a 2006 model. While both 2.8lt turbo diesel VMs, the later engine uses a different turbo, egr, exhaust, intercooler, injectors, alternator, engine computer, trans computer, electrical harness, in fact apart from the basic block, nothing is the same. Why I was scratching my head was they even look very different! .... my offered up solution was to remove the engine and start again...

Regards
Daz

[rar110]

I don't know if it's worth considering but on a L322 the practice is to remove the front for a motor swap, eg bumper, lights, radiator, IC etc.

[carlschmid2002]

I am looking forward to this. Good luck.

[LandyAndy]

Will.
It could be worth seeing if anybody wants to lend a hand at any time.BBQ/Beers as a bribe;););););););););).
It would be a great experience,if you were over here I would get involved.
Andrew

[cjc_td5]

Step 1: Lift the body! Argggghhhhhh

OK, a little clarification. We have found so far that access is an absolute nightmare. The initial plan was to remove the motor only, but there is no access to a couple of bolts at the very top of the bell housing. So at this stage it looks like we will be pulling the whole motor/transmission/transfer case forward about 20cm, and separating the motor from the transmission. Then rest the transmission and transfer case on the cross member, lift the motor, swap stuff over, document etc. So hopefully it'll be done reasonably soon.

Is there a possibility of raising the front of the body to gain the access you need? I was speaking to a Nissan dealer the other day who said they do clutches on Patrols by raising the front of the body only, letting it hinge (or rotate) on the rear body mounts. They do not even have to break brake lines or the steering to get the 10cm clearance they need to get to the bellhousing bolts. They made special spacers they would place between the body and chassis when lifted so they could work underneath it.

Cheers,

[LandyAndy]

You remind me.
A mate did a motor/auto gearbox/transfercase transplant in a TD5 D2 in one hit.The reason,his motor and gearbox very tired after 400000km,bought a 90000km wreck and he only had a weekend to do it alone.
He removed the rear wheels,blocked the axles to keep the discs off the ground.Then lifted the front chassis the height of a 44 gal drum and blocked it there.He then removed all the body mounts except the rears,loosened them as much as he dared.Next he lifted the body at the front as much as he dared putting wood blocks into hold it there.He was able to lift the whole lot straight out with a forklift and drop the new lot in on the same day.
Thinking outside the square;););););););););)
Andrew

[DazzaTD5]

I don't know if it's worth considering but on a L322 the practice is to remove the front for a motor swap, eg bumper, lights, radiator, IC etc.

Yes same way, I had assumed (maybe wrongly) that the OP would have done the complete front removal, grill, rad, intercooler, rad assembly, lights, bumper, bottom hose assembly etc etc.

Regards
Daz

[winaje]

Yes same way, I had assumed (maybe wrongly) that the OP would have done the complete front removal, grill, rad, intercooler, rad assembly, lights, bumper, bottom hose assembly etc etc.

Regards
Daz

EVERYTHING is stripped back to the front of the motor...

[winaje]

Can anyone at all confirm or deny this please? I haven't got the old engine out yet so can't directly compare...

In reading about the Lion motor here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17 I see

"...the Land Rover variant of the Lion V6 includes a deeper, high capacity sump with improved baffles to maintain oil pressure at off-roading extreme angles and multi-layered seals to keep dust, mud and water at bay and different transmission bell housing bolt pattern"

[Disco-tastic]

I cant confirm or deny, but couldn't you check it against the motor you just pulled out?

Cheers

Dan

[winaje]

I cant confirm or deny, but couldn't you check it against the motor you just pulled out?

Cheers

Dan

Hi Dan, would love to, but as I said in the first line of the post "I haven't got the old engine out yet so can't directly compare..."...

[PhilipA]

There has been a thread where this has been done before with good results so it would have been evident then.
Regards Philip A
Here is the google title
FYI - Ford Territory Tdci does go into a Disco 3/4 - Australian Land ... (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/210134-fyi-ford-territory-tdci-does-go-into-disco-3-4-a.html&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwj0vaCvk57LAhXBmJQKHY78D28QFggUMAg&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEbVCf3khwSOFJlDpr_YXPJZM8Xeg)

[Disco-tastic]

Hi Dan, would love to, but as I said in the first line of the post "I haven't got the old engine out yet so can't directly compare..."...

Sorry about that. I had just read a thread on a motor replacement which had photos of the motor out, and i confused it with this thread. :o

To make up for my error here's a link to a post with a summary of whats different. i dont know if its exhaustive.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2229277

D3 Diesel Front Timing Cover Explosion

It doesnt mention the motor to transmission bolt pattern. I have read through a few of these with no mention of different transmission bolt layouts.

Cheers

Dan

[DazzaTD5]

Can anyone at all confirm or deny this please? I haven't got the old engine out yet so can't directly compare...

In reading about the Lion motor here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17 I see

"...the Land Rover variant of the Lion V6 includes a deeper, high capacity sump with improved baffles to maintain oil pressure at off-roading extreme angles and multi-layered seals to keep dust, mud and water at bay and different transmission bell housing bolt pattern"

Hi winaje,
while helpful or not...
As I mentioned before there will be differences in a lot of ancillary parts, I really do want you to succeed in your mission, so I say...

Assume EVERY ancillary part is not going to be the same, compare parts, part numbers, and if need research, this will save you from what I've seen so many do over the years, which is bolt something on and find out later that its not the same, the obvious different one in the high pressure fuel pump and injectors between D3 and Territory. Dont do what others have done and blindly bolt stuff on..

Regards
Daz

[worane]

I was talking to Gordon, one of the two owners of Hunter & Cutthill in Geelong a
while ago about the craziness of having to remove the body of a D3.
He passed the comment that they have devised a way of engine changes WITHOUT body removal.
As I only own a TD5 the conversation went no further. It does show that an independent repair shop is on to it though.
Regards Nick.

[DazzaTD5]

I was talking to Gordon, one of the two owners of Hunter & Cutthill in Geelong a
while ago about the craziness of having to remove the body of a D3.
He passed the comment that they have devised a way of engine changes WITHOUT body removal.
As I only own a TD5 the conversation went no further. It does show that an independent repair shop is on to it though.
Regards Nick.

While I really do appreciate owners etc etc wanting to be able to change an engine without removing the body, what I cant understand is any repairer that does it for a living not wanting to remove the body to change an engine or any major repair work for that matter.

Its by design, its simple, its a very well thought out idea and I well prefer working on D3, D4, RRS doing body removal for any work than removing engines etc out of plenty of other vehicles.

Instead of "fighting" the body removal, a long time ago I went with trying to perfect it so the end finished result was equal to how it was, such as with a new vehicle or fitted back better than it was, as with an early 2005 model etc.

things I do....
*Getting a good quality full kit of body trim tools.
*Older models I dont try and remove the plastic retainers, I cut the tops off with a sharp chisel, its quicker and on refit it gets new retainers.
*Having in stock all the plastic retaining clips for trim.
*Having one of them plastic boxes with all the little partitions and each corner and section represents the same corner or section on the vehicle, so clips, screws etc are grouped together.
*Unlock all doors and pop tailgate before disconnecting battery.
*Put in neutral before disconnecting battery.
*I dont remove the road wheels.
*If its not an engine change, I dont remove the front rad support panel.
*Refit plastics and body mounts with some silicone spray.

It's under 4 hrs now, and I recon a younger mechanic might get it down even less, although young mechanics tend to be full of themselves so maybe not :p :p

The newer model Land Rovers such as the D3, D4, RRS and Defender TDCi are
one of the reasons why I've stayed with working on the brand.... the newer models are easier to work on!

Regards
Daz

[PhilipA]

one of the reasons why I've stayed with working on the brand.... the newer models are easier to work on!

Assuming you have a workshop with say 6 metres of headroom and a 2 or 4 post hoist.
Regards Philip A

[SBD4]

While I really do appreciate owners etc etc wanting to be able to change an engine without removing the body, what I cant understand is any repairer that does it for a living not wanting to remove the body to change an engine or any major repair work for that matter.

Its by design, its simple, its a very well thought out idea and I well prefer working on D3, D4, RRS doing body removal for any work than removing engines etc out of plenty of other vehicles.

Instead of "fighting" the body removal, a long time ago I went with trying to perfect it so the end finished result was equal to how it was, such as with a new vehicle or fitted back better than it was, as with an early 2005 model etc.

things I do....
*Getting a good quality full kit of body trim tools.
*Older models I dont try and remove the plastic retainers, I cut the tops off with a sharp chisel, its quicker and on refit it gets new retainers.
*Having in stock all the plastic retaining clips for trim.
*Having one of them plastic boxes with all the little partitions and each corner and section represents the same corner or section on the vehicle, so clips, screws etc are grouped together.
*Unlock all doors and pop tailgate before disconnecting battery.
*Put in neutral before disconnecting battery.
*I dont remove the road wheels.
*If its not an engine change, I dont remove the front rad support panel.
*Refit plastics and body mounts with some silicone spray.

It's under 4 hrs now, and I recon a younger mechanic might get it down even less, although young mechanics tend to be full of themselves so maybe not :p :p

The newer model Land Rovers such as the D3, D4, RRS and Defender TDCi are
one of the reasons why I've stayed with working on the brand.... the newer models are easier to work on!

Regards
Daz
Daz, Got to say we are a lucky bunch having people like you on this forum (and JC et al) with the wealth of information you have and the willingness to share it. The folk in WA are even luckier to be in the same state where they can use your services with the confidence that they are going to be looked after.

Always find your posts generously informative.

[LandyAndy]

He must do a pretty good job.
One would soon hear on the grapevine if he had disgruntled customers.Never heard a bad word about him.
As long as he washes his hands after touching those Jeeps all is good:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

[DazzaTD5]

Daz, Got to say we are a lucky bunch having people like you on this forum (and JC et al) with the wealth of information you have and the willingness to share it. The folk in WA are even luckier to be in the same state where they can use your services with the confidence that they are going to be looked after.

Always find your posts generously informative.

I appreciate your words, cheers for that.

This forum is a wealth of information from both trade and experienced people a like, plenty of info I've picked up from here over the years even before being a regular member. From a business point of view being involved with any related forum, club etc is only going to be a positive thing.

From a personal point of view, I have customers from AULRO, Land Rover Owners club of Western Australia and ausjeepoffroad.com and always find it (generally) more rewarding dealing with customers that actually have an interest in their vehicle.

When I was 15 I thought how cool it would be to work on Land Rovers for a living, and now..... well at least I have a good (although some what odd) sense of humor :p :p :p

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

He must do a pretty good job.
One would soon hear on the grapevine if he had disgruntled customers.Never heard a bad word about him.
As long as he washes his hands after touching those Jeeps all is good:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

thats a true statement, a lifetime to build up a reputation and about 10 minutes to loose it..

and yes always wash my hands before working on the other brand, be that Land Rover or Jeep.... cross contamination and all that.

Regards
Daz

[winaje]

So, it's probably time for an update, and I see why Daz and others have said that a workshop would never try what we did... Also, with this post I fully expect to lose lots of thanks, get abuse, hate mail, death threats etc. (lol just kidding). It'll also necessitate an update to the thread title, as I don't want to lead anyone astray...
Basically, as the cars I had to drive while fixing mine have either been sold or are now needed by their owners, the timeline has had to be accelerated. I'm sure that the engine swap CAN be done without removing the body, but in the time we have put into it so far, we haven't gotten anywhere near as much progress as we both thought. So, after a lot of consideration, this happened:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/738.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EoR43i)[/url]

Yes, I know the shed isn't complete lol...
My mate (that's him below) needed a hoist anyway, but the D3 made the need immediate. So he spent $2k and bought a 3tonne hydraulic/cable hoist, and we have decided to just pull the body and be done with it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/739.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EoR43i)[url=https://flic.kr/p/EXobnk]

The plan is to still take all the pics possible of the actual part swap from the Territory engine and document it, so the thread is not a total loss...

[winaje]

...With what u have saved with getting an engine, you could afford to buy a vehicle hoist :)...

So tell me, what are the lotto numbers for this week??? :p

[DazzaTD5]

So tell me, what are the lotto numbers for this week??? :p

I believe I have been very supportive of your original plan, but do believe u are making a better choice now. Now you have turned it into another interesting fun job, my feeling of dread has now been lifted, thank you.

I read somewhere... the difference between intelligence and wisdom regarding a tomato....

Intelligence:
Knowing a D3 engine can be removed without lifting the body.
Wisdom:
But deciding to lift the body off anyway.

Regards
Daz

[PhilipA]

But of course the 6 metre shed and the hoist make it quite an expensive engine change.LOL
Maybe it would have been better letting Daz do it!
Regards Philip A

[winaje]

But of course the 6 metre shed and the hoist make it quite an expensive engine change.LOL
Maybe it would have been better letting Daz do it!
Regards Philip A
The 18x12m shed you mean lol, and Daz being in WA, would have been an expensive freight bill...

But I know what you mean.

[winaje]

Ok, some notes while it's freshish in my head. Had a crazy day with my mate who gets in the zone and you get no chance to stop etc. I'll try and get photos of most of the stuff below:

So, the things that need to be swapped from old to new motor are:
Sump
Oil pump pick up
Flexplate and starter motor
Alternator
Air con compressor
Power steering pump
ALL pulleys not included on the items above. This mean crank, water pump, stationery idler, tensioner and fan mount bearing
Serpentine belt tensioner
Fan mount bracket
Timing belt cover
Front water pipe that runs between EGR valves
Bracket at the front to hold the EGR water pipe
Turbo inlet and outlet hoses
Water pipe that runs to left hand side of motor behind turbo pipes
Sensor at the top of the motor near the front, that plugs into grey mesh wiring
Plug for sensor inside the V at the back of the right bank
Entire engine wiring loom
Top front coolant "burp pipe"
Engine mounts
Alternator support bracket
Power steering support bracket (swap or remove threaded rod)
Lower turbo support bracket
Dip stick tube (this does not align correctly with both retaining bolts, but one is sufficient in my opinion)
Turbo oil drain tube

Remove right rear lift ring from supporting bracket
Use the Ford hose clamp where possible unless replacing with worm style, the Ford ones are a better design

[LandyAndy]

Christening a shed before its a shed.Im sure there is something about that in the rulez book.
ENJOY
Andrew

[kogvos]

Christening a shed before its a shed.Im sure there is something about that in the rulez book.
ENJOY
Andrew
I think it's an excellent example of getting the priorities correct. Land Rover before anything else! [emoji4]

[winaje]

So here's a word of warning when buying your replacement engine. DO NOT have the word Ford written on the receipt for the purchase. Simply have the supplier write something like "1 second hand engine" instead. Vicroads do not have the collective brain power to understand that a Ford engine can be fitted into a LR, even though Ford owned the company. They require me to get a $780 VASS certificate to state that it's possible to do what I have done.

So, I'm headed back to the wrecker tomorrow to get a replacement receipt without the word Ford on it... Then off to a different Vicroads to register my LANDROVER engine number change... ARGH, Bureaucracy!!!

[Timmy]

Do engine numbers follow the same convention? Ie could you just show that they have the same engine number prefix with different serial number?
I would have flipped and asked for a supervisor.

[winaje]

Do engine numbers follow the same convention? Ie could you just show that they have the same engine number prefix with different serial number?
I would have flipped and asked for a supervisor.

Spoke to the most senior guy there, who said "you put a ford motor in a landrover, you need a VASS". They would not listen to any argument or explanation whatsoever. Would not even look at the car.

[shanegtr]

should have told him that you removed a ford engine as well to make room for it :)

[rangieman]

Do engine numbers follow the same convention? Ie could you just show that they have the same engine number prefix with different serial number?
I would have flipped and asked for a supervisor.

The problem i see is the ford engine number will be registered against a ford car . So changing wording on a receipt will do jack sorry.
I wish you luck and hope it works;)

[DazzaTD5]

rangieman brings up a valid point, but do they have the ability to input a engine number and get back a vehicle type? I realise they like most states can input a VIN and get back vehicle details. In W.A (prolly again like most states) a wrecker has to keep records of a VIN that an engine was sold out of, but thats only used when there is something being looked into etc..

As with ALL Gov departments.....
*If you go there knowing it all you will fail in getting done what you need.
*If you argue, you will also fail.
*If you have the thinking they are public servants and are here to serve, you will also fail.
*There is no thinking outside of the box or procedures.

Most importantly...
*You need to go there and ACT like a know-nothing-moron that doesnt do much talking but needs nothing but THEIR help and assistance.

I'd do as the OP has said and get a receipt with limited information on it and go to another inspection centre, go through the required paperwork and most of all shutup....

Regards
Daz

[winaje]

rangieman brings up a valid point, but do they have the ability to input a engine number and get back a vehicle type? I realise they like most states can input a VIN and get back vehicle details. In W.A (prolly again like most states) a wrecker has to keep records of a VIN that an engine was sold out of, but thats only used when there is something being looked into etc..

As with ALL Gov departments.....
*If you go there knowing it all you will fail in getting done what you need.
*If you argue, you will also fail.
*If you have the thinking they are public servants and are here to serve, you will also fail.
*There is no thinking outside of the box or procedures.

Most importantly...
*You need to go there and ACT like a know-nothing-moron that doesnt do much talking but needs nothing but THEIR help and assistance.

I'd do as the OP has said and get a receipt with limited information on it and go to another inspection centre, go through the required paperwork and most of all shutup....

Regards
Daz

Get your spy camera off me! I got a different receipt with the engine type on it "1 x AJD-V6 2.7litre V6 Turbo Diesel Engine", went to a different Vicroads, said "Hi, I need to register an engine number change please", acted stupid (not difficult), had the vehicle inspected and the number recorded from the plate on top of the head, and the new number entered into the system. The lady DID run a check on the engine number, but this seems to have only been to confirm that it's not suspected of having been stolen. Took 13 minutes walk in walk out.

[PeterOZ]

Had no troubles here in QLD when I changed engine number after teh territory donk went in. Showed them the receipt, they came and looked under the hood and made the change. No drama at all.;)

[LandyAndy]

So the lesson here is dont tell them its a Territory motor;););););)
Andrew

[Nicky]

So the lesson here is dont tell them its a Territory motor;););););)
Andrew

Seems obvious!

[winaje]

You'd think it was obvious, would't you...? But when the initial receipt said "1 Ford Engine" I was already stuffed... With the second receipt not saying "Ford" but the engine type/model/displacement etc, I had no problems...

[Grentarc]

had the vehicle inspected and the number recorded from the plate on top of the head, and the new number entered into the system.

When I did an engine swap in a car a few years back, the inspector didn't want to know about the "easy to find" engine number plate bolted to the head, as that is easy to swap from one vehicle to another - he wanted to find the number stamped on the block, which was in an impossible place to read it with the turbo and exhaust in the way (reason for the plate on the head no doubt). He ended up deciding after maybe 30 minutes of stuffing around that the last 4 digits matched the plate, so was good enough for him, but told me I was "very lucky I was nice to him".

[DazzaTD5]

When I did an engine swap in a car a few years back, the inspector didn't want to know about the "easy to find" engine number plate bolted to the head, as that is easy to swap from one vehicle to another - he wanted to find the number stamped on the block, which was in an impossible place to read it with the turbo and exhaust in the way (reason for the plate on the head no doubt). He ended up deciding after maybe 30 minutes of stuffing around that the last 4 digits matched the plate, so was good enough for him, but told me I was "very lucky I was nice to him".

Technically while the guy was an arse, he is right.

When I do an engine swap, regardless of if the number can be read or not, I supply the customer with documentation covering the following:
*Pic of engine number.
*engine number on invoice.
*location of engine number.
*In the case of a D3/RRS provide the information from the manufacturer that states the engine number cant be read once installed in the vehicle.

Generally supplying all of the above tends to allow even the biggest arse to ok it all.

Regards
Daz

[Grentarc]

Technically while the guy was an arse, he is right.

I know he was right, as swapping a tag is quite easy.
My supporting document for the engine that went in was registration papers in my name and the previous vehicles details, so luckily wasn't a hand written receipt or he may have asked me to take the turbo and exhaust off!

[Jimmy Salsa]

[QUOTE=DazzaTD5;2492944]Basically any change in spec from say euro 3 to euro 4 etc etc on any engine regardless if thats a Land Rover, Jeep whatever, you will find changes to the basic electrical, computer management and ancillary mechanical components. this also goes for engines in the same spec, such as euro 3 but from another type of vehicle such as the 2.7lt TDV6 used in Land Rover D3 / Ford Territory or the 2.8lt VM used in Jeep JK Wrangler / jeep KK Cherokee / Holden Colorado.

I see this as a bit of a given but understand people asking the question.


While you'd obviously want a later engine with lower KM's, are there any major considerations from swapping something like a 2014 Territory motor into an older model (2007) LR?
Could still be the cheapest option for a tired/worn motor given the territory motor is half the cost of the LR product

[Maharba]

I had this done earlier in the year, $3500 for the engine with 10,000 km $4000 for the install. The accessories (alternator, starter motor and air con) are not compatible. It also requires resetting the ecu as they are tuned differently. The territory diesel ⛽ has the engine set to boost fuel on acceleration to reduce lag. Done by Hardy Automotive in Geelong. They did an excellent job.

[winaje]

I had this done earlier in the year, $3500 for the engine with 10,000 km $4000 for the install. The accessories (alternator, starter motor and air con) are not compatible. It also requires resetting the ecu as they are tuned differently. The territory diesel ⛽ has the engine set to boost fuel on acceleration to reduce lag. Done by Hardy Automotive in Geelong. They did an excellent job.

So you're the one who got the motor I was looking at but delayed because of financing. Glad it got sorted out well for you. I'm confused about the ECU reset requirement though, mine definitely didn't need that.

[sheerluck]

Engine adaptives values reset, Will. Supposed to be done after any major replacement.

[winaje]

Engine adaptives values reset, Will. Supposed to be done after any major replacement.
Can this be done with a Nanocom?

[sheerluck]

Don't know I'm afraid Will. I don't have a Nanocom. I'm pretty sure it can be done with an IIDTOOL, not that that will help you.....

[l00kin4]

Good news. From the Nanocom manual:


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=110537&stc=1&d=1466654480


David

[sheerluck]

Thanks David. I've got 4 different bits of Land Rover specific kit, but no Nanocom. IIDTool Pro is next on the list...

[Tins]

It's under 4 hrs now, and I recon a younger mechanic might get it down even less, although young mechanics tend to be full of themselves so maybe not :p :p



Not too bad. A LR 'specialist' once told me that LR allow 8 hours. Or are you talking about 4 hours one way, so to speak?

[winaje]

Not too bad. A LR 'specialist' once told me that LR allow 8 hours. Or are you talking about 4 hours one way, so to speak?

That would have to be probably 3.5 hours off and 4.5 hours on, as on would include time to vacuum and charge the airconditioning.

[Globetrotter]

I know its six months old but it is interesting, the only problem is did I miss something as there was no explanation re lifting body or getting engine out. Is that down for part 2.

If I missed a link on that part of the process, can someone point me to it:soapbox:

[PTCAAR]

I know its six months old but it is interesting, the only problem is did I miss something as there was no explanation re lifting body or getting engine out. Is that down for part 2.

If I missed a link on that part of the process, can someone point me to it:soapbox:


Yes I too would like to see how the body came off? I've just broken the oil pump in my disco 3, so have to go through the same process. Can anyone tell me how to tell if the engine is a Euro IV, or Euro III? Can you tell from the vin number? It's a Dec 2006 build. Any advice would be great. Thanks
Peter.

[101RRS]

If it is a Dec 2006 build then it is a 07MY which is Euro 4 - because you have a 07MY that is why the idler mount broke.

You need to confirm from your Vin though just to be sure.

[PTCAAR]

If it is a Dec 2006 build then it is a 07MY which is Euro 4 - because you have a 07MY that is why the idler mount broke.

You need to confirm from your Vin though just to be sure.Thanks for that. How do I confirm through the vin?

[jonesy63]

Yes I too would like to see how the body came off? I've just broken the oil pump in my disco 3, so have to go through the same process. Can anyone tell me how to tell if the engine is a Euro IV, or Euro III? Can you tell from the vin number? It's a Dec 2006 build. Any advice would be great. Thanks
Peter.
The following is cut'n'pasted from the UK Disco3 site:

The easiest way to check which model year your D3 is, is by looking at the VIN. It should have this format:

MY05:
SALLAAA1x5Axxxxxx

MY06:
SALLAAA1x6Axxxxxx

MY07:
SALLAAA1x7Axxxxxx

[PTCAAR]

Thanks for that info guys. Yeah checked the vin and it's a MY07, Euro 4.
Now to find a cheap enough low kms territory motor to get the old girl going again.[bigsmile1]

[101RRS]

Sometimes it is just as cheap to buy the entire written off Territory.

[Globetrotter]

Where do I find the pictures and write up??[bawl]

[jonesy63]

Where do I find the pictures and write up??[bawl]

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - How To - Body Removal (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/body-removal-76002.html?highlight=%2Bremove+%2Bbody)

[Globetrotter]

Thanks Jonesy63 for the link and thanks to Disco_Mikey for the body off bit.[thumbsupbig]

[PTCAAR]

Hi All, Can anyone confirm or deny what is written in wikipedia with regards to the Lion V6 engine? "Furthermore, the Land Rover variant of the Lion V6 includes a deeper, high capacity sump with improved baffles to maintain oil pressure at off-roading extreme angles and multi-layered seals to keep dust, mud and water at bay and different transmission bell housing bolt pattern. "

I knew i'd have to change the sump over from my current engine, what has me worried is the transmission bell housing pattern.
Does anyone know if the territory has different transmission housing patterns? Does the territory have different motors for say their 2wd and all wheel drive versions?
If anyone could shed some light on this for me that would be great as i don't want to buy a territory engine if it's not going to work in the disco.
Thanks in advance
Pete

[101RRS]

Hi All, Can anyone confirm or deny what is written in wikipedia with regards to the Lion V6 engine? "Furthermore, the Land Rover variant of the Lion V6 includes a deeper, high capacity sump with improved baffles to maintain oil pressure at off-roading extreme angles and multi-layered seals to keep dust, mud and water at bay and different transmission bell housing bolt pattern. "

Pete

That quote is comparing the differences between the Landrover 2.7 and the Jaguar2.7.

As far as I am aware the Territory bell housing pattern is the same as the LR one.

Garry

[Grays69]

Hi i been having a read over this post and it has given me great enthusiasm to continue with my swap. I have an o7 disco 3 that suffered a split plastic water housing. Basically cooked the engine game over. I found a territory 55.000kms stat r/o. I am yet to still get the engine out as im doing body on but only because of a bet saying its impossible. I understand auxiliarys pulleys a/c alternater and sump etc has to be changed.

What has me a little worried before i buy the territory engine is the wiring loom. If i had both motors infront of me id know if it can or cant be done.
How much work or modifications is needed for the territory motor to plug into existing disco wiring loom?
Thanks any insight would be greatly appreciated

[PTCAAR]

Hi i been having a read over this post and it has given me great enthusiasm to continue with my swap. I have an o7 disco 3 that suffered a split plastic water housing. Basically cooked the engine game over. I found a territory 55.000kms stat r/o. I am yet to still get the engine out as im doing body on but only because of a bet saying its impossible. I understand auxiliarys pulleys a/c alternater and sump etc has to be changed.

What has me a little worried before i buy the territory engine is the wiring loom. If i had both motors infront of me id know if it can or cant be done.
How much work or modifications is needed for the territory motor to plug into existing disco wiring loom?
Thanks any insight would be greatly appreciated

Good question re the "wiring loom". I'd also like to know as I'm currently in the planning stage of swapping my disco engine for a territory engine. I was hoping the looms have the same plugs and can be interchangeable??
Don't suppose anyone out there knows of a low kms territory engine, that's reasonably priced, that's for sale??? [bighmmm]
Cheer Pete

[DazzaTD5]

You need to use the old engine harness that is with the Land Rover version of engine. (which is unfortunate from the point of view the Ford Territory engine harness is better made)
I'm sure I have posted the full list of bits that need to come from the old engine, see pic below of Territory bit removed....

Just finished another one, I dont even bother taking pics anymore.

138270

[DazzaTD5]

I know its six months old but it is interesting, the only problem is did I miss something as there was no explanation re lifting body or getting engine out. Is that down for part 2.

If I missed a link on that part of the process, can someone point me to it:soapbox:

If you jump on youtube and search for my business, you will find a bit of a general walk through on body removal and refit.

[DazzaTD5]

Sometimes it is just as cheap to buy the entire written off Territory.

I look, but for a complete stat writeoff territory they still go for good dollars more than just an engine.

[DazzaTD5]

just some more info...

*My posts early on in this thread, cautioning compatible parts and their interchangeability with examples of the VM engine used in Jeeps, Holden etc is valid BUT its way way easier with the Ford Territory to Land Rover Discovery 3 change.
*Dont get all hung up on engine ECU needs to be reset as boost bluh bluh is different on a Territory, its doesnt matter the engine ECU is still the same one (as in you dont change it). Maybe resetting "adaptive learning" on engine ECU (I and other havent done this).
*I advise NOT to reset auto trans adaptive learning, as this generally causes more problems than it fixes.
*You will need both engines sitting next to each other and strip off the territory bits first and then remove off Discovery engine and fit over to territory engine.
*There are lots of little parts with subtle differences.
*If you Discovery engine died because of an oil pump housing failure and its damaged the timing belt cover, you will need another Discovery one used, or buy a new one at round $300.

If peeps are really interested I could do a full list of what needs changing and what doesnt...

[Grays69]

I found that all the plugs were the same thank "beep" just the knock sensors needed to be added on the territory engine. As for a low kms engine, look on gumtree as i found a 65.000kms engine offered for 3 grand plus delivery. Myself i ended up getting all 45.000kms engine for $3200 as it was local and was able to see it in person

[PTCAAR]

just some more info...

*My posts early on in this thread, cautioning compatible parts and their interchangeability with examples of the VM engine used in Jeeps, Holden etc is valid BUT its way way easier with the Ford Territory to Land Rover Discovery 3 change.
*Dont get all hung up on engine ECU needs to be reset as boost bluh bluh is different on a Territory, its doesnt matter the engine ECU is still the same one (as in you dont change it). Maybe resetting "adaptive learning" on engine ECU (I and other havent done this).
*I advise NOT to reset auto trans adaptive learning, as this generally causes more problems than it fixes.
*You will need both engines sitting next to each other and strip off the territory bits first and then remove off Discovery engine and fit over to territory engine.
*There are lots of little parts with subtle differences.
*If you Discovery engine died because of an oil pump housing failure and its damaged the timing belt cover, you will need another Discovery one used, or buy a new one at round $300.

If peeps are really interested I could do a full list of what needs changing and what doesnt...I for one would be really interested in a complete list of parts that need swapping out between the Territory and disco engine. Mine suffered oil tensioner failure. My mechanic brother-in-law ( who's a cruiser man8-}) has a hoist in his shed and is going to do the engine change out (well once I find a suitable engine). So a list would make the job a lot easier and be very very appreciated :-D. It's been a few months since the disco died right in the middle of moving our family to a new Town, so really has thrown a spanner into the works and I'm really missing the disco and just want to get her back on road. Anyway thanks for any help in advance. Pete.

[Grays69]

So after 20 hours of frustrating effort, (all on my own) i finally have the engine out of my disco 3 with body still on. This to be honest is by far the most difficult car to work on if you are a diy type like myself. If i ever have to do another engine in a disco 3 it will be body off for sure. Made more difficult by the engine being seized and not being able to remove torque converter bolts.

[Lukeis]

If you have a 2.7L engine is there the ability to swap it for a 3.0L engine or is that not compatible/legal?

[Reactbob]

Hi,

I just bought a Discovery D3 2006 about a month ago left for a trip to Fraser Island two weeks ago and got 40 kms from Melbourne and it blew up "not happy jan".
I was reading the forum and discovered that you could swap a Territory 2.7 in long story short picked up an engine out of a 2012 Territory with 67000 kms on it for
$3500. Now to do the swap, I found this thread comp guide to swap a Territory 2.7 into a Discovery 3. The question is is there a guide with pics somewhere or am I being dumb
and just can't find it.

Regards Bob

[101RRS]

This thread is the guide.

[Grays69]

Hi,

I just bought a Discovery D3 2006 about a month ago left for a trip to Fraser Island two weeks ago and got 40 kms from Melbourne and it blew up "not happy jan".
I was reading the forum and discovered that you could swap a Territory 2.7 in long story short picked up an engine out of a 2012 Territory with 67000 kms on it for
$3500. Now to do the swap, I found this thread comp guide to swap a Territory 2.7 into a Discovery 3. The question is is there a guide with pics somewhere or am I being dumb
and just can't find it.

Regards Bob



I think there is a guide but its more just starting from the front and work your way back removing the million bolts and heat sheilds hoses etc. I reccomend taking body off but if you dont feel free to ask questions. No question is dumb when it comes to the task at hand.

[Grays69]

If you have a 2.7L engine is there the ability to swap it for a 3.0L engine or is that not compatible/legal?


There is always the ability if you have the effort. Personally if i was going to attempt a different engine all together i would go with a 350 chevy or even a v8 from a commodore. Trouble is the discoverys with the engine management system wiring loom body control ecu etc are so advanced that it would all have to be changed. Best option i found was the ford territory tdv6 as they elimenated the bearing failure that the previous discoverys had issues with.

[DazzaTD5]

Just thought I would mention....

*The change over of an engine in a Discovery 3, be that another Land Rover engine or the Ford Territory engine is by far no walk in the park.
*Changing out engines in say a Discovery 2 is by far an easier task.
*You will require good to better mechanical skill.
*Not removing the Discovery 3 body makes it a lot harder.
*I get plenty of jobs from other repairers that simply dont want to tackle this job.
*You have been for warned, dont read too much into comments about how easy it is.

*I'm not saying all of the above to deter anyone from giving it a go and am more than happy to give out useful info when I can.

*Full credit does go to the original poster, winaje for starting this thread

[101RRS]

Personally if i was going to attempt a different engine all together i would go with a 350 chevy or even a v8 from a commodore.

If you were going to go to all the trouble of going to a petrol engine, why would you go to crappy chev or dunnydore engines when supercharged and non supercharged 5 litre V8s from LR are available. Even on the diesel front - contrary to public opinion the V8 diesels will fit in a D3.

But even putting in a 3.0 in place of a 2.7 would be just too hard and expensive to be worth while particularly as far as ECUs, CANBUS communications and wiring is concerned.

Garry

[Grays69]

If you were going to go to all the trouble of going to a petrol engine, why would you go to crappy chev or dunnydore engines when supercharged and non supercharged 5 litre V8s from LR are available. Even on the diesel front - contrary to public opinion the V8 diesels will fit in a D3.

But even putting in a 3.0 in place of a 2.7 would be just too hard and expensive to be worth while particularly as far as ECUs, CANBUS communications and wiring is concerned.

Garry

yeah i agree 100% that a different engine other than what i mentioned would be better. I just mentioned a couple of easy engines without any thought or care to be honest. I myself would not change to any different engine other than what was in it. I at the moment are in the middle of swapping a territory tdv6 into my land rover discovery 3 and i admit it is a horrendous task at hand. It has taken all of mechanical knowelge and some.

[Grays69]

So im at the point of connecting the fuel system. Stupid i didnt take great notice or pictures on how the fuel system works. The fuel cooler has me stumped and dont want to put coolant into the fuel pump. Does anyone know which lines go where or can point me in the right direction

[Grays69]

Just thought I would mention....

*The change over of an engine in a Discovery 3, be that another Land Rover engine or the Ford Territory engine is by far no walk in the park.
*Changing out engines in say a Discovery 2 is by far an easier task.
*You will require good to better mechanical skill.
*Not removing the Discovery 3 body makes it a lot harder.
*I get plenty of jobs from other repairers that simply dont want to tackle this job.
*You have been for warned, dont read too much into comments about how easy it is.

*I'm not saying all of the above to deter anyone from giving it a go and am more than happy to give out useful info when I can.

*Full credit does go to the original poster, winaje for starting this thread


I have successfully completed a territory tdv6 swap into our land rover discovery 3 2007 hse. It's like you said no walk in the park I did it with body on and probably never do it again. I haven't tried body off but would almost certainly believe there would be 30 hours knocked off the time to do the job.

[DazzaTD5]

A question that gets asked a lot...

*If your Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 is EURO 4 compliant (so that 2007 model onwards) when fitting a Ford Territory engine you keep the high pressure fuel system that came with the Ford Territory engine. So thats the High pressure pump, fuel rails, fuel injectors.

*Can I use the complete high pressure fuel system from my old Land Rover engine? Yes you can, but do not mix and match parts of the high pressure fuel system from one engine to the other. Its all or nothing.

[shanegtr]

Quick question - territory engine into a 05 D3. From what I've gathered the HPFP and injectors would need to be swapped over (and any fuel lines etc...), along with all the other stuff that would normally need to be changed over on the EUR4 engines. I haven't read anything about the turbo - is there any issues with that. Anything else I may have overlooked?

[Ranga]

Reviving an old thread (which is a great read), what are the options for replacing a EU3 2.7?