Throttle Response

[eddy]

SDV6 on the odd occasion when flattening the throttle there is a definite lack of response.Mate of mine has fitted one of these to his Audi https://www.racechip.com/responsecontrol/land-rover/discovery/discovery-4/3-0-sdv6-188kw/index.php reckons its the best and cheapest mod he's done.Anyone fitted one to their D4?

[LGM]

My SDV6 has 155,000km on the clock and has plenty of GO once the Loud Pedal is pushed....:cool:......I personally would not chip my D4....but each to his or her own!

[RobA]

Our TDV6 is more than adequate even towing the camper we have no issues getting around road trains or wobblies.

Mate chipped is D3 and has had endless glitches so chucked it

Rob

[Celtoid]

SDV6 on the odd occasion when flattening the throttle there is a definite lack of response.Mate of mine has fitted one of these to his Audi https://www.racechip.com/responsecontrol/land-rover/discovery/discovery-4/3-0-sdv6-188kw/index.php reckons its the best and cheapest mod he's done.Anyone fitted one to their D4?


Hi Eddy,


I've never heard of an SDV6 being slow off the mark once rolling but there are thousands of stories of them have really ****ty response at zero or very low speed.


The reasons are inconclusive but I personally think it's the gearbox under certain circumstances or parameters. Some folks assume it's turbo lag but there are times from zero when you hit the Loud Peddle and it goes like a rocket with absolutely no delay. For me that would suggest gearbox.


As I said, don't know the reason for sure but I'm not sure if more engine go would make any difference. However, Terry O has a V8 D4 and recons it goes like stink with no delay. I assume it has the same gearbox as the diesel .... so maybe there is more to it?

[eddy]

The lack of response is inconsistent,sometimes there sometimes not.Like you say when it goes, it really flies off the mark.Could it be responding to driver input varying from senior mode to hoon?According to the link I put up,this device fits between the throttle pedal and the ECU and can be used in conjunction with a remapped ECU for max benefit, which is what my mate has done with his Audi.

[RobA]

The lack of response is inconsistent,sometimes there sometimes not.Like you say when it goes, it really flies off the mark.Could it be responding to driver input varying from senior mode to hoon?According to the link I put up,this device fits between the throttle pedal and the ECU and can be used in conjunction with a remapped ECU for max benefit, which is what my mate has done with his Audi.

The transmission keeps learning and changing parameters all the time and the inconsistency you describe happens to us if we come back from a country trip where I have been using the throttle hard to overtake and we then settle down to puttering around town.

I suggest you move to sport mode for a day or so and see if the same issue replicates

Rob

[Celtoid]

The transmission keeps learning and changing parameters all the time and the inconsistency you describe happens to us if we come back from a country trip where I have been using the throttle hard to overtake and we then settle down to puttering around town.

I suggest you move to sport mode for a day or so and see if the same issue replicates

Rob


You're a hundred precent correct and I regularly select 'Sport' to re-educate. However, I haven't found this absolute and I think my older 6 speed 3.0L was more responsive to this strategy than the new 8 speed ZF.


I'm wondering if it's about how the ECU and gearbox communicate. Myself and a couple of other forum members discussed a while back, a very odd situation, when your engine just seems dead.


I was on Fraser Island and the driving for once had been so easy, I turned everything off. I was in highway mode in high range (DSC was off). A couple of times .... and only a couple of times I applied pressure to throttle to get over a hump on a sand road .... and nothing happened. I mean nothing. I thought I'd had a failure. Unlike on the road, I also didn't get that big rush of power and torque when everything lit up. Even with more pressure ..... a very, very, very slow build of power occurred.


Head scratching.

[eddy]

Sport mode certainly overcomes the inconsistency.Question now is, does this box do the equivalent of sport mode at low speed or from stationary?

[eddy]

These plugs appear to be catching on Sprint Booster For Range Rovers (2010 - 2013) - SBLR1022S (http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/SBLR1022S) But first I have to get an egr emulator.

[phl]

Those that have the problem with throttle response, have you had the transmission lag fix applied by LR service? It fixed it for me almost totally (only occurs rarely now when engine cold, and I brake, the suddenly take off, eg at roundabouts).

[theresanothersteve]

I'd avoid the plug in performance boosters like the plague, they are not a properly sorted remap but something that fudges the engine sensors to force the engine to compensate for something that has happened...

As RobA suggests, drive it like you stole it for a day or so and you'll find it becomes more responsive.

[l00kin4]

Those that have the problem with throttle response, have you had the transmission lag fix applied by LR service? It fixed it for me almost totally (only occurs rarely now when engine cold, and I brake, the suddenly take off, eg at roundabouts).


Hi, thanks for this. Are you able to provide any more detail on this fix please. What MY's it applies to, a LR bulletin number.. ?


Thanks,
David

[LRD414]

Hi, thanks for this. Are you able to provide any more detail on this fix please. What MY's it applies to, a LR bulletin number.. ?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/133687-d3-rrs-pregnant-pause-roundabouts.html
TSBs mentioned: Service Bulletin LS307-003 and LTB00101
This seems to relate to earlier MYs

I think more relevant for 8 speed g'box is:
LTB000545 (at least MY13, not sure other MY's)
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/179006-list-updates-problem-fixes-recalls-d4.html

Scott

[phl]

Hi, thanks for this. Are you able to provide any more detail on this fix please. What MY's it applies to, a LR bulletin number.. ?


Yes, the one I had applied was the one mentioned by Scott above. You have to specifically complain about it (perhaps the hesitation is a side effect of fuel economy programming; after all, slower take-off means better economy), otherwise the fix is not offered. Can't recall if that was the first or second update I had, as the first one worked for a while, but the problem returned, whereas the second one has been working.

[eddy]

Thanks Doug,exactly what I was after Install A Sprint Booster Power Converter On A Range Rover Sport (http://www.roverparts.com/resources/videos/sprint-booster-install-on-range-rover-sport/?email=edwardsoz@aapt.net.au&utm_source=bm23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Installing+Sprint+Booster+Power+Converter +Video+-+Roverlog_99&utm_content=ROVERLOG+Issue+%2399+-+Latest+in+Land+Rover+News&utm_campaign=Roverlog99)

[LandyAndy]

Tried using sand mode Geoff????
That will get you some throttle response.
Andrew

[eddy]

The lag is only on the odd occasion,this gadget looks set & forget!

[Tombie]

The lag is only on the odd occasion,this gadget looks set & forget!

The Gadget is a non-linear throttle input...

It does nothing more than make a small throttle input into a larger one...

The same as pushing the throttle a little further, quicker...

[Celtoid]

So the million dollar question that has been on my lips since buying a MY10 D4 .... is why does this still occur and why haven't LR fixed it.


I rarely get caught out these days but did the other day and it was a very ugly scenario rolling into traffic with absolutely no power for what seems like eternity :angry:.


We're close to 7 years on now for D4s ... it's ridiculous ....

[RHS58]

So the million dollar question that has been on my lips since buying a MY10 D4 .... is why does this still occur and why haven't LR fixed it.


I rarely get caught out these days but did the other day and it was a very ugly scenario rolling into traffic with absolutely no power for what seems like eternity :angry:.


We're close to 7 years on now for D4s ... it's ridiculous ....

Yep, agree with you there.

[peterall]

I overcame all those issues mentioned by getting a remap done on my MY2011 RRS 3.0lt STDV6, by Superchips.
ECU Remap | Chipping | Engine Tune | Peter James Tuning | Superchips (http://www.superchips.co.nz).
This does require the ECU to be removed from the car so the parameters can be adjusted.
241 bhp to 274 bhp (204 kW)
600 Nm to 697 Nm
The remap can be programmed to suit your requirements.
Mine were: 75% city, 15%towing, 10% 4WDriving
Result after 12 months driving has been:
1. Improved towing with 2 tonne van. (reduced fuel consumption 2-3 lt per 100km as you don't need to push the throttle as much)
2. Improved throttle response in town..no turbo lag (consumption down 2 lt per 100km if driven conservatively, goes up when pushed)
3. Much improved torque for heavy 4WDriving
I could not be happier.:)

[BJM]

I've had this problem a few times (MY14 D4 SDV6). It seems to be under the following conditions:
- engine cold
- some steering lock applied
- throttle pressed heavily for quick takeoff

The unfortunate problem is it usually happens when you're turn into or across heavy traffic. It hasn't become dangerous yet because I'm aware of it and don't usually press my luck just incase it happens.

[SBD4]

I've had this problem a few times (MY14 D4 SDV6). It seems to be under the following conditions:
- engine cold
- some steering lock applied
- throttle pressed heavily for quick takeoff

The unfortunate problem is it usually happens when you're turn into or across heavy traffic. It hasn't become dangerous yet because I'm aware of it and don't usually press my luck just incase it happens.

Have you tried dropping into 1st or better still, sport mode and 1st? By default it is programmed to take off in 2nd gear and in a more leisurely way.

Also, if you mainly just poke around like an old granny, then the vehicle will adjust to that driving style as the norm which means it takes a bit to wake it up when needed. Try a bit of spirited driving from time to time to sharpen things up(hard acceleration with high revs).

[BJM]

I don't tend to poke around. I like a little bit of right boot :D

I had the same issue when I had the TDi Territory before this and was able to be completely rid of the problem once I had the ecu tuned.

I have tried driving in sport mode today and it does seem to sharpen the throttle response but I wasn't in any situations where I expected I might have the issue.

[apachefreak]

Peterall-
I overcame all those issues mentioned by getting a remap done on my MY2011 RRS 3.0lt STDV6, by Superchips.
ECU Remap | Chipping | Engine Tune | Peter James Tuning | Superchips.
This does require the ECU to be removed from the car so the parameters can be adjusted.
241 bhp to 274 bhp (204 kW)
600 Nm to 697 Nm
The remap can be programmed to suit your requirements.
Mine were: 75% city, 15%towing, 10% 4WDriving
Result after 12 months driving has been:
1. Improved towing with 2 tonne van. (reduced fuel consumption 2-3 lt per 100km as you don't need to push the throttle as much)
2. Improved throttle response in town..no turbo lag (consumption down 2 lt per 100km if driven conservatively, goes up when pushed)
3. Much improved torque for heavy 4WDriving
I could not be happier.

how much does a remap cost?
was seriously thinking about getting one of the sprint booster/ wind booster units for my D4MY10?

[Tombie]

Wind Booster is nothing but the electronic equivalent of pushing throttle further.
It can't remove lag...

[jonesy63]

how much does a remap cost?
was seriously thinking about getting one of the sprint booster/ wind booster units for my D4MY10?

What motor is in your MY10 D4? 2.7, TDV6 3.0 or SDV6 3.0? Prices and process varies depending on what you have. Take a look at Superchips ? petrol and diesel engine tuning, ECU remap software for maximum driving pleasure. (http://www.mybluefin.com.au) and put in your details - note that Peter James is the "local" rep for Bluefin.

I wonder if the hesitation with some of these cases is a dodgy brake pedal switch? You say to car "Go!" - but car thinks you also have foot on the brake and it thinks "No!" ;)

[Celtoid]

What motor is in your MY10 D4? 2.7, TDV6 3.0 or SDV6 3.0? Prices and process varies depending on what you have. Take a look at Superchips ? petrol and diesel engine tuning, ECU remap software for maximum driving pleasure. (http://www.mybluefin.com.au) and put in your details - note that Peter James is the "local" rep for Bluefin.

I wonder if the hesitation with some of these cases is a dodgy brake pedal switch? You say to car "Go!" - but car thinks you also have foot on the brake and it thinks "No!" ;)


The issue has been reported since the inception of the D3 .... nothing to do with any switch or any hardware, just about every car has it occur from time to time .... and it's not a turbo lag issue either as every single person will report (especially the 600nm twin turbo owners), that power can come on instantly in some cases and needs an email in others ... :angry:.


Same car ... as in the actual same car .... can perform completely differently from time to time.


Has to be software. There are a lot of smarts built into the ECU and how it 'talks' to everything .... and I think that's where the flaw lies.

[LandyAndy]

I drive mine like an olde fart.
Dont I love that OH WOW when I push the pedal flat:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:: twisted::twisted:
Andrew

[phl]

I suppose I've been lucky as I haven't seen the lag since the second software update. There is a roundabout close to home where I'm slowing down (as it's downhill), but if there is no oncoming I'll floor it as it's uphill after; used to "die" on me, with nothing happening for what seemed like hours, but haven't noticed this lag in nearly 2 years.

[apachefreak]

What motor is in your MY10 D4? 2.7, TDV6 3.0 or SDV6 3.0
Going by the super chip site, I think I have the TDV6 (245HP) 3.0 241BHP (9/2009 onwards)
Where would you recommend to get an ECU remap in NSW?


Wind Booster is nothing but the electronic equivalent of pushing throttle further.
It can't remove lag...

Being a digital signal (as it is fly by wire) I have in mind that if you rescale the input signal to the ECU, Im imagining that it would be very similar a remap of an ECU without the need to actually modify the original factory ECU.

I would of expected the ECU to ONLY do whatever the input signal is telling it to do, no matter if the input signal is linear, parabolic or exponential, the output should reflect the input signal given (of course dependent on actual CPU calculation speeds).
Unless of course if the ECU has limits programmed into it to detect abnormal stepping changes.

At work I calibrate all types of rosemount transmitters being for pressure, flow, level, differential pressure etc and the 4-20mA signal output is always directly related to the input signal given. (again dependant on update times and calculation speeds of the device, aka processing time)

Being a plug and play device, That was why I was so interested in these windboosters/ sprint booster/ potent booster etc etc

Has anyone actually used one of these little units?


BTW
Happy Easter! :)

[dalil]

I did enquiry to superchips
Here is Peter James respond.

Thanks for your email about upgrading your Discovery 4.

We do alot of 3.0TDV6s as they respond so well to being Superchipped. You will get alot better throttle response, low down and midrange torque and the car will pull all the way to the red line. Many owners report anything up to 10% saving on fuel as well, due to the fact there is less gear changing. And the annoying lag that they have at low revs also disappears. With the Discovery 4 the gains are as follows;
LAND ROVER - DISCOVERY - DISCOVERY TDV6 - 3.0 - 210BHP - VERSION (1)
PERFORMANCE
Original HP: 210 (152kW) Original Nm: 520
Tuned HP: 260 Tuned Nm: 620
HP Increase: 50 (38kW) Nm Increase: 100
% Increase: 23% % Increase: 19%


All fittings come with a lifetime warranty and have a million dollar cover and we have never had a claim in 39 years. We are the official Mini Cooper, Audi and VW Rally team ECU reprogrammers in the UK and as such work closely with the manufacturers so we do not go over their recommended tolerances. As such, if you do not want to tell them it has been done, they will never know.

The upgrades takes about 3-4 hours to do and we come to you to do it. The price is AUD$1,349 fitted. If you'd like to go ahead let me know and I'll arrange a time. I will need somewhere to work, such as a garage with light, power and a bench or table, as we need to programme direct to the ECU. Ideally I'd start mid afternoon and be finished by about 7pm. We can also do an EGR delete for you at the same time. You need to blank the EGR off as near as possible to when we map it out as otherwise the engine may go into limp home mode. It shouldn't do, but there is a chance, so good idea to physically blank it off as well.
Please note this is not a plug in box. All they do is up the fuel line pressure. Now bearing in mind your vehicle is running about 15-20,000psi in the fuel lines, do you want anymore? We have seen over ten cases where the pressure has been so high that the injectors have bowled, so instead of being shaped like a V they have gone to a U shape, or burnt the tips out. Also some where the fuel has been forced past the rings and into the sump. Diesel in the engine oil is not a good look! We don't up the fuel rail pressure, we remap the ECU, so change the pulse, ie when it puts fuel in and for how long, the timing, throttle response and boost on the turbo. A remap is a more complete method of upping the power and does not put any extra strain on the fuel line.

Hope this helps and if you have any other queries, please feel free to get in touch. I will be in Melbourne the first week of May as I have some jobs booked to do there. I am in Adelaide on 29th April and then will be coming through on my way to Sydney and Brisbane. So happy to do it then if you wish.

All the best.

Peter James BSc.(Econ.) B.P.B.
Peter James Tuning Ltd, exclusive distributors for
Superchips & Bluefin in New Zealand & Australia
Mobile: +64 (0)27 2757574
Office: +64 (0) 800 89 CHIPS (24477)
Email: peter@superchips.co.nz
Web: ECU Remap | Chipping | Engine Tune | Peter James Tuning | Superchips (http://www.superchips.co.nz)
ECU Remap | Chipping | Engine Tune | Peter James Tuning | Superchips (http://www.superchips.com.au)
Rediscover the joy of the open road


I think will go for it, but i am not sure if should i wait till warranty finish another six month.
Dali

[peterall]

Cost is approx $1300

[scarry]

Mine is the 2.7,had it done here by MR auto,it is a Bruce Davis power upgrade and EGR disable.The turbo lag has virtually disappeared,and it definitely has a lot more power and torque.

I am pretty sure they also have one for the 3.0l D4 models.

[Celtoid]

I've just had a Blinding Flash Of the Obvious ..... a BFO if anybody wants to use that term :-)


My 'Lag' situation occurs when the engine just does not rev .... even when the peddle is on the floor.


I do have a background in technical stuff but do not have intimate knowledge of turbocharged engines. However, isn't turbo lag a situation when the engine revs up and it takes a while for exhaust gas to spool up the 'impeller' in order to produce a pressurised fuel air mix?


If so, I assume there must be a rev increase with no obvious power increase ... until everything catches up.


This is not the situation I am in. I just get nothing .... a flat engine and then a "holy McGeebers' moment when everything winds up.


Got to be software .... This would explain why ECU remaps or equivalents work, would it not?

[Meken]

No just typical turbo lag - put your foot down and until the turbo spools up you've got access to about 20kw & 50nm ;( - I used to have an auto wrx - wow you want turbo lag nothing for what seems like minutes then propelled to 100in 5 secs - the number of times I almost rear ended cars when I first got it !!!

[Catmatt]

You're a hundred precent correct and I regularly select 'Sport' to re-educate. However, I haven't found this absolute and I think my older 6 speed 3.0L was more responsive to this strategy than the new 8 speed ZF.


I'm wondering if it's about how the ECU and gearbox communicate. Myself and a couple of other forum members discussed a while back, a very odd situation, when your engine just seems dead.


I was on Fraser Island and the driving for once had been so easy, I turned everything off. I was in highway mode in high range (DSC was off). A couple of times .... and only a couple of times I applied pressure to throttle to get over a hump on a sand road .... and nothing happened. I mean nothing. I thought I'd had a failure. Unlike on the road, I also didn't get that big rush of power and torque when everything lit up. Even with more pressure ..... a very, very, very slow build of power occurred.


Head scratching.

Have you checked you don't have a partially open or sticking EGR valve? The valves are known to coke up over time and will stick either partially or fully open.
The end result is no turbo boost whatsoever until you gain enough engine RPM to overcome the partially or fully open EGR and start receiving boost which describes the very, very, very slow build up of power you make.

Happened to my 2010 2.7l D4 and the quote to remove and replace the EGR valves made my eyes water so I sought an alternate solution.

I had the ECU remapped with a 'soft' performance tune as well as a software fix that keeps the EGR valves completely closed forever. Problem fixed with no further hesitation or lack of power from idle.

My 2.7l D4 now has similar performance as a stock 3.0l D4 so I'm double happy :cool:;)

[RoverLander]

I've just had a Blinding Flash Of the Obvious ..... a BFO if anybody wants to use that term :-)


My 'Lag' situation occurs when the engine just does not rev .... even when the peddle is on the floor.


I do have a background in technical stuff but do not have intimate knowledge of turbocharged engines. However, isn't turbo lag a situation when the engine revs up and it takes a while for exhaust gas to spool up the 'impeller' in order to produce a pressurised fuel air mix?


If so, I assume there must be a rev increase with no obvious power increase ... until everything catches up.


This is not the situation I am in. I just get nothing .... a flat engine and then a "holy McGeebers' moment when everything winds up.


Got to be software .... This would explain why ECU remaps or equivalents work, would it not?

I has something similar in my previous D4. At some stage it developed a problem where on occasions there was no response to the throttle. I dont mean lack of power, i mean it was as if i hadnt even pressed the accelerator.

After some investigations and reading, i insisted that the dealer replace the brake light switch. It only costs about $60. Fixed the problem. The reason is that if the switch is sticky then the car thinks the brake is being pressed and therfore ignores accelerator input...hence a dead throttle. There are other posts on here about the problem and a description of why the brake switch goes faulty after a while. This is a cheap any easy thing to try to see if it fixes your problem.

[letherm]

I has something similar in my previous D4. At some stage it developed a problem where on occasions there was no response to the throttle. I dont mean lack of power, i mean it was as if i hadnt even pressed the accelerator.

After some investigations and reading, i insisted that the dealer replace the brake light switch. It only costs about $60. Fixed the problem. The reason is that if the switch is sticky then the car thinks the brake is being pressed and therfore ignores accelerator input...hence a dead throttle. There are other posts on here about the problem and a description of why the brake switch goes faulty after a while. This is a cheap any easy thing to try to see if it fixes your problem.

I had the exact same issue during the first 6 months and the dealer altered the gap between the pedal and the sensor and this fixed it. Same explanation basically - the computer thought the brake was still depressed.

Martin

[Celtoid]

Have you checked you don't have a partially open or sticking EGR valve? The valves are known to coke up over time and will stick either partially or fully open.
The end result is no turbo boost whatsoever until you gain enough engine RPM to overcome the partially or fully open EGR and start receiving boost which describes the very, very, very slow build up of power you make.

Happened to my 2010 2.7l D4 and the quote to remove and replace the EGR valves made my eyes water so I sought an alternate solution.

I had the ECU remapped with a 'soft' performance tune as well as a software fix that keeps the EGR valves completely closed forever. Problem fixed with no further hesitation or lack of power from idle.

My 2.7l D4 now has similar performance as a stock 3.0l D4 so I'm double happy :cool:;)


Thanks mate,


I don't think that was the issue. This was over a year ago and never happened again. In fact it never, ever happened at any stage in low range. Not sure in hindsight if I turned on a TR selection whilst in high range .... I don't think I would have.


I will definitely look into this Brake Switch situation. I was a non-believer but it sounds like it has been an un-usual suspect for a few folks. Thanks letherm and RoverLander.


I'll report back.


So many owners reporting this issue for years though .... it's gobsmacking.

[laughto]

I had the exact same issue during the first 6 months and the dealer altered the gap between the pedal and the sensor and this fixed it. Same explanation basically - the computer thought the brake was still depressed.

Martin

If the sensor was 'sticky' and the computer thought the brake was still depressed, wouldn't the brake light be illuminated?

[letherm]

If the sensor was 'sticky' and the computer thought the brake was still depressed, wouldn't the brake light be illuminated?

My problem was when I took my foot off the brake and pressed the accelerator. The first time it happened I nearly required a change of underwear. I was a an intersection turning right across oncoming traffic with plenty of room until it just sat there for what seemed an eternity. :o:o:o The dealer simply adjusted the gap between the sensor and the brake or at least that's what they told me. Still have hesitation sometimes but I let the car roll a touch before I take off. I certainly would not cut across traffic with little room to spare.

Martin

[RoverLander]

If the sensor was 'sticky' and the computer thought the brake was still depressed, wouldn't the brake light be illuminated?

I believe there are actually two switches in the brake switch. One for the lights and one that sends the signal to the computer to indicate the brake is pressed. The problem occurs when some carbon build up on the light circuit goes into the switch for the computer. It then sends a signal for a longer period of time to say that the brake is on. Its not until that signal clears tbat you suddenly get throttle response back. This may only take a second but when you want throttle at a roundabout it feels like ages.

[Grentarc]

Its not until that signal clears tbat you suddenly get throttle response back. This may only take a second but when you want throttle at a roundabout it feels like ages.

I have this problem occurring more and more these days, and I have a switch sitting in my "in car spares" collection, which I think I may see about fitting today. The car is 175,000 km on the original switch, which is why the spare is always carried in the car.

Edit: Just did the swap - the old switch is the FoMoCo part, with the slightest blackening on one of the contacts, so cleaned it up, bent the contacts a touch and reassembled to throw in the spares with a "used" label on it.
I will see if the new switch has improved the throttle response from a standstill

[Celtoid]

I believe there are actually two switches in the brake switch. One for the lights and one that sends the signal to the computer to indicate the brake is pressed. The problem occurs when some carbon build up on the light circuit goes into the switch for the computer. It then sends a signal for a longer period of time to say that the brake is on. Its not until that signal clears tbat you suddenly get throttle response back. This may only take a second but when you want throttle at a roundabout it feels like ages.


OK, so I thought about this for a while and was certain that I'd tried a left foot on brake/right foot on accelerator hill start way back when I got my first D4 in early 2010. I think the car went off pretty well. But I hadn't actually checked the revs.


So tried this today in my MY13 D4 and though and behold, left foot firmly on brake pedal and right foot on accelerator ...... the engine revs and the car tries to pull. The engine doesn't appear to be retarded at all.


Surely that debunks the brake switch theory?

[Grentarc]

OK, so I thought about this for a while and was certain that I'd tried a left foot on brake/right foot on accelerator hill start way back when I got my first D4 in early 2010. I think the car went off pretty well. But I hadn't actually checked the revs.


So tried this today in my MY13 D4 and though and behold, left foot firmly on brake pedal and right foot on accelerator ...... the engine revs and the car tries to pull. The engine doesn't appear to be retarded at all.


Surely that debunks the brake switch theory?

Doing this will actually improve response as you get the turbo(s) spooling by adding load to the engine.

I know that so far, replacing the switch has not made a difference to my 3.0's launchability.... Sand mode on the other hand, is another story!

I do know though, with my other car (Saab 9-5) and previous Saab models, the ECU has a brake input so that if the brake is depressed, the boost is restricted to "Base Boost" - about 6psi. No idea why this is, except that it is a great tool to find out if the wastegate control solenoid is faulty.

[Celtoid]

I did enquiry to superchips
Here is Peter James respond.

Thanks for your email about upgrading your Discovery 4.

We do alot of 3.0TDV6s as they respond so well to being Superchipped. You will get alot better throttle response, low down and midrange torque and the car will pull all the way to the red line. Many owners report anything up to 10% saving on fuel as well, due to the fact there is less gear changing. And the annoying lag that they have at low revs also disappears. With the Discovery 4 the gains are as follows;
LAND ROVER - DISCOVERY - DISCOVERY TDV6 - 3.0 - 210BHP - VERSION (1)
PERFORMANCE
Original HP: 210 (152kW) Original Nm: 520
Tuned HP: 260 Tuned Nm: 620
HP Increase: 50 (38kW) Nm Increase: 100
% Increase: 23% % Increase: 19%


All fittings come with a lifetime warranty and have a million dollar cover and we have never had a claim in 39 years. We are the official Mini Cooper, Audi and VW Rally team ECU reprogrammers in the UK and as such work closely with the manufacturers so we do not go over their recommended tolerances. As such, if you do not want to tell them it has been done, they will never know.

The upgrades takes about 3-4 hours to do and we come to you to do it. The price is AUD$1,349 fitted. If you'd like to go ahead let me know and I'll arrange a time. I will need somewhere to work, such as a garage with light, power and a bench or table, as we need to programme direct to the ECU. Ideally I'd start mid afternoon and be finished by about 7pm. We can also do an EGR delete for you at the same time. You need to blank the EGR off as near as possible to when we map it out as otherwise the engine may go into limp home mode. It shouldn't do, but there is a chance, so good idea to physically blank it off as well.
Please note this is not a plug in box. All they do is up the fuel line pressure. Now bearing in mind your vehicle is running about 15-20,000psi in the fuel lines, do you want anymore? We have seen over ten cases where the pressure has been so high that the injectors have bowled, so instead of being shaped like a V they have gone to a U shape, or burnt the tips out. Also some where the fuel has been forced past the rings and into the sump. Diesel in the engine oil is not a good look! We don't up the fuel rail pressure, we remap the ECU, so change the pulse, ie when it puts fuel in and for how long, the timing, throttle response and boost on the turbo. A remap is a more complete method of upping the power and does not put any extra strain on the fuel line.

Hope this helps and if you have any other queries, please feel free to get in touch. I will be in Melbourne the first week of May as I have some jobs booked to do there. I am in Adelaide on 29th April and then will be coming through on my way to Sydney and Brisbane. So happy to do it then if you wish.

All the best.

Peter James BSc.(Econ.) B.P.B.
Peter James Tuning Ltd, exclusive distributors for
Superchips & Bluefin in New Zealand & Australia
Mobile: +64 (0)27 2757574
Office: +64 (0) 800 89 CHIPS (24477)
Email: peter@superchips.co.nz
Web: ECU Remap | Chipping | Engine Tune | Peter James Tuning | Superchips (http://www.superchips.co.nz)
ECU Remap | Chipping | Engine Tune | Peter James Tuning | Superchips (http://www.superchips.com.au)
Rediscover the joy of the open road


I think will go for it, but i am not sure if should i wait till warranty finish another six month.
Dali


"All fittings come with a lifetimewarranty and have a million dollar cover and we have never had a claim in 39years. We are the official Mini Cooper, Audi and VW Rally team ECUreprogrammers in the UK and as such work closely with the manufacturers so wedo not go over their recommended tolerances. As such, if you do not want totell them it has been done, they will never know."

I have no vested interest in this whatsoever but I have read this stuff before and Roo Systems have similar lines ....

Their quote....
“This goes even further than that. If you have an engine failure andthe manufacturer can prove it was caused by our products that’s on us as well.”

Firstly, just 'cause you support a rally team does not make an OEM approved specialist (especially if the cars were built in the 80s...LOL) ..... maybe abit of journalistic licence there.

It would also be interesting to analyse the T&Cs around the 'Million Dollar' cover claim.

Secondly, regarding "the OEM will never know" (Superchips) claim, inthis thread ....

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/230830-tdv6-sdv6-3-0l-power.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/230830-tdv6-sdv6-3-0l-power.html)

... a few posts in, Tombie discusses how certain manipulation of the ECU creates an indelible record that can only be detected by the OEM's Diagnostic Tool. This comment was specific to re-mapping. This Mr Chips guy was asked about that by another party and stated that he knew nothing about it and had to check with his UK counterparts. His later reply was a tad defensive stating something about all Internet Experts being Experts, etc ... blah, blah, blah but admitted that his UK contacts had stated that it was partially true. He fluffed it off as him never seeing it here so it must be only 2016 models. Well of course he hadn't seen it .... that was the point of the other post!

So, taking the above into consideration, let's play devils advocate about thewarranty claims by these companies....

Scene 1


Owner walks into Land Rover with damaged engine/transmission/drivetrain andstates the above warranty claim from remapping company. Land Rover laugh.


They won’t make any effort to prove it. Why should they, the owner has let acompany that has 0.0001% of the R&D budget thatJ LR have modify his car? They might rightly state that RooSystem’s know their (RooSystems) gear but do not fully understand Land Rover products. Land Rover expressly warn about modifying without approval (Warranty becomes void).They state, get RooSystems to prove their kit didn’t cause the issue, you paid to get the car modified, not them.

Owner becomes piggy in the middle. So what does owner do?

That’s pretty much where it would end with the owner being out of pocket for an engine, driveline or transmission (or all) repair.

Scene 2

Owner has to decide who to sue and for what?

JLR (one of the most successful companies in the world) for? You can’t order them to ‘prove’ the RooDevice made their engine fail. You’d have to sue them for not covering the warranty, even though you completely ignored their clearly stated warnings.

Maybe the owner decides to go for the ‘softer’ target, even though they signed a piece of paper that states that the owner must get the OEM to prove that it wasa RooSystems issue.

Owner once again, stuck in the middle.

Scene 3


Probable Reality.

The warranty line is BS, but it’s solid enough to cover RooSystems/SuperChips/etal only. ‘’Proof’ is ambiguous and you’d never get JLR to budge. The only real proof is the fact that the owner modified the car and probably has no way of hiding that. If the owner choses to sue JLR for a failure to commit to warranty and they did actually ‘prove’ that RooSystems were at fault, I’d bet RooSystems would then counter the JLR claims, on the very point of proof. Once again you’d be in the middle and very, very, very much out of pocket. How much do you think this would cost you? I seriously doubt it would get that far.

People have been modifying cars from spec for a long time, some with issues and some without .... across the spectrum I'd imagine. With major/critical mods, I think it's fair to say you run a risk of losing your warranty when you do this. But if you are happy with that, the car is out of warranty or you think the risk of issue is low.... well then that's OK and that's why plenty of people do it.

I'm not challenging these guys ability to do what they say but I'm questioning their comments around the cover the owner is afforded should something go wrong.

Just food for thought.

[aus86inch]

Very wise words Celtoid brings me back down to reallity, driveline & warranty worth a lot more than extra power and economy at this stage. Still got 3 years warranty left :)

[Celtoid]

Very wise words Celtoid brings me back down to reallity, driveline & warranty worth a lot more than extra power and economy at this stage. Still got 3 years warranty left :)


Thanks mate,


As I've stated, I can't really comment on the actual physical/mechanical risk, I just think folks should go into these things with their eyes wide open.


Some people are comfortable with that risk, but at least they have considered it.


Cheers.

[RoverLander]

OK, so I thought about this for a while and was certain that I'd tried a left foot on brake/right foot on accelerator hill start way back when I got my first D4 in early 2010. I think the car went off pretty well. But I hadn't actually checked the revs.


So tried this today in my MY13 D4 and though and behold, left foot firmly on brake pedal and right foot on accelerator ...... the engine revs and the car tries to pull. The engine doesn't appear to be retarded at all.


Surely that debunks the brake switch theory?

Good point...however i know that changing the brake switch fixed my problem. Could it be that a bad contact in the brake switch causes a very rapid pulsing on the brake sensor circuit for the computer. This somehow causes a delay in reacting to throttle input. Im guesing this but several people seem to have had good results in changing the brake light switch. Its also a relatively easy and cheap thing to try. I hope you find the cause soon as i undrstand how frustrating a delayed throttle response is.

[Celtoid]

Good point...however i know that changing the brake switch fixed my problem. Could it be that a bad contact in the brake switch causes a very rapid pulsing on the brake sensor circuit for the computer. This somehow causes a delay in reacting to throttle input. Im guesing this but several people seem to have had good results in changing the brake light switch. Its also a relatively easy and cheap thing to try. I hope you find the cause soon as i undrstand how frustrating a delayed throttle response is.


Thanks.


I was in traffic so never got a chance to find out what happens if I let the brake go ..... it might still falter. Later experiment .... when I remember ..... LOL!!!


Definitely looking at all options and the car is due in to LR soon ..... I'll discuss with them to lever something down the brake switch path.


As you said, there is anecdotal evidence to suggest this may be the cause. I'm still hedging a software issue .... communication or interpretation which the brake switch could be part of.


It's interesting though, that people who have re-mapped report the issue gone. Considering a re-map is modifying what does what and when purely driven by software.


Cheers.

[Baytown]

There’s lots of comment and opinion here re IDrive.
As BAS don’t do a tune for the SDV6 Discovery 4, and the recommendation not to chip / reflash the 3.0 litre, Ive bought an IDrive two days ago via the web site.
I received it today which is great service.
Plug and play so a 5 minute install, and then off for a drive.
WOW, what a difference to the standard pedal response and low rev take off.
It felt like a different car.
Ive kept it set on the factory automatic setting for now.
Its great in the lower rev range, and after driving two/three times, I’m adjusting my input accordingly, making it a smoother experience.
I just need to stick it to my dash in a suitable place. There’s plenty of room and options.
Highly recommended, as you’re not injuring the engine at all, it’s just better software at the pedal.
Just do it!

Ken
149464

[LRD414]

what a difference to the standard pedal response and low rev take off.
So the typical lag from a standing start, is it altered?

Scott

[Baytown]

Altered?
Its gone!👍

[LRD414]

Interesting. My experience is that any significant throttle from a standing start is very delayed before eventually things really kick off. What is a standing start like now for you if you give it a good hit, not flat to the floor but you want to take off?

Scott

[Baytown]

It’s not an issue Scott.
Lots of immediate power, I surprised myself how well it drove today.

[geoffmc]

Interesting. My experience is that any significant throttle from a standing start is very delayed before eventually things really kick off. What is a standing start like now for you if you give it a good hit, not flat to the floor but you want to take off?

Scott

Scott,

I purchased one this week and it arrived yesterday, fitted this morning. As mentioned previously here, the difference is quite amazing. If you want to catch up sometime and experience the difference, before purchasing, let me know.

cheers
Geoff

[RANDLOVER]

Is it even more peppy than putting it in "Sand" mode, and conversely how is it in "Sand" mode, not too wild?