Time for new tyres on TDV6

[pprass]

The tyres that came with our MY15 TDV6 were the standard Goodyear Wrangler HP All Weather 255/55/R19. I didn't think that they were going to be suitable for the trip that we had planned - but the salesman was adamant that they were good tyres and that no one had reported any problems with them.
So after buying the vehicle and preparing it for our trip and still being skeptical we checked with our mechanic who said that we may as well just run them down and then get some "proper" 4wd tyres. So we headed off on our 4 month trip towing a 3.2 tonne van (ATM), crossing quite rough tracks which included 1,200 kms doing the Great Central Rd to Yulara. We lowered the tyre pressures on the car and van for these rough tracks, but being a low profile tyre on the Discovery, I only lowered them down to about 33 psi.
After the crossing of the GCR - where we experienced one totally shredded tyre, we just could not believe the condition of the tread on the other tyres! After just 17,000 kms each tyre was damaged and the centre tread was bald. Also they are now much more susceptible to punctures as I found out yesterday when I drove along a relatively tame mountain track with a few exposed sharp rocks in patches. Well that just confirms what I thought - the Goodyear Wranglers HP AW are not suitable for tough off road conditions - must let the Land Rover salesman know ;)

I am now looking at replacing the tyres with either Hankook Dynapro ATM, General Grabber AT, or the Toyo Open Terrain H/T. No idea which is better for our purposes - but I need a tyre like the Mickey Thompson ATZ P3's that I had on our Nissan Patrol - best tyres I ever owned.

Attached are a couple of photos showing the condition of one of the tyres that was punctured by just driving on a mountain track yesterday.

[SBD4]

In 19's the GG's are OK, they have a very flimsy sidewall and made for very nervous driving of road, Pirelli Scorpion ATRs are a good tyre, just watch out in the wet as they get towards the end of their life. You're not going to get much in 19's.

Although you probably are not in a position to wait, you should seriously consider getting a set of Gordons 18" rims. They'll open up a whole lot more options for you on the tyre front including LTs. That''ll also give you more to play with on pressures.

Green Oval Experience Land Rover training, Range Rover modifcation (http://www.greenovalexperience.com/#!18-inch-rims/cglk)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/51.jpg

[LandyAndy]

17000ks and shot:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Mine are almost at 20000ks,probably only 1/4 tread gone.
As you say,they are useless as a rough road tyre.
Look at Goodyear Duratracs,they have been getting a good wrap.
Andrew

[pprass]

... you should seriously consider getting a set of Gordons 18" rims. ..."
I thought that 18" rims would compromise the cooling capacity of the brake discs on the MY15 D4?

[SBD4]

17000ks and shot:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Mine are almost at 20000ks,probably only 1/4 tread gone.
As you say,they are useless as a rough road tyre.
Look at Goodyear Duratracs,they have been getting a good wrap.
Andrew

Yes what Andrew said, Goodyear Duratracs, I forgot about those.

I got about 52000km out of my Wranglers. The closer they get to the end of their life the faster they seem to wear.

[SBD4]

I thought that 18" rims would compromise the cooling capacity of the brake discs on the MY15 D4?
No problems there, you can see that they are very open. They will be fine. If in doubt have a chat with Gordon directly.

[pprass]

Look at Goodyear Duratracs,they have been getting a good wrap.
I ignored Goodyear thinking that they didn't have anything for 4wding - but they look good. Now why didn't my dealer suggest those to me when I was discussing tyres :mad:

[scomac]

Gordon's 18's are the way to go, if you have a spare $5000 to spend :eek: (incl tyres of course)

[LandyAndy]

Gordon's 18's are the way to go, if you have a spare $5000 to spend :eek: (incl tyres of course)

pprass,incase you are unaware,Gordons 18" rims are the only rims that fit the 3.0lt D4.
Andrew

[LRD414]

Duratracs get good feedback and here's some feedback on the Hankook Dynapro ATM:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/202409-hankook-dynapro-atm.html

I agree with the comments re the 18" wheels (I have a set) but given the state of your current tyres perhaps consider the 18s after another set of 19" tyres.

Scott

[LandyAndy]

18" rims are a must for sand work,the 19" tyre at 15psi would be very easy to damage.
Andrew

[chuck]

I am also thinking about new tyres but have the luxury of waiting a few months.

Can anyone confirm if 285 50 20's fit on genuine alloys.

I have heard conflicting reports.

They may be a good option;
bigger sidewall
bigger width for sand and snow & to keep rims of kerbs & rocks.
reasonably priced
legal
should fit in spare position

[pprass]

Gordon's 18's are the way to go, if you have a spare $5000 to spend :eek: (incl tyres of course)
I think you have just hit the problem on the head ;)

[pprass]

Thanks - I see the benefit of the 18" rims, but a tad too expensive for me.

So I thought which of the tyres have a stronger side wall and it looks to me that the Duratracs have 2 ply and the Dynapro have 3 ply - which I thought would therefore make the Dynapro a stronger tyre for towing a heavy van and help withstand side slashing when 4wding.

However reading about side wall ply - it is not as simple as just the number of plies. It depends on the construction and the materials used. So apparently in some cases a 2 ply tyre could be better than a 3 ply tyre? Also it seems that a higher ply tyre doesn't like being deflated for say sand work, or rocky tracks.

I find all of this very confusing (similar to comparing mobile phone plans - its hard to compare like with like :( ) and think I will just go with the Hankook Dynapro ATM's - they have to at least be better than the Wrangler HP All Weather that I currently have.

[RobA]

pprass ply is no longer a relevant term for modern tyres. Originated back when tyres were made by hand starting with the canvas wrapping which was called a ply.

Modern radial construction tyres are made completely differently and whilst they do have a wrapping as part of their internal construction the number is completely irrelevant given they are made from much stronger materials up to and including kevlar and mylar of which a single wrap is probably so many times stronger than a canvas one it does not matter. As well it is important to understand that tyres breath (lose heat) via the sidewall. Hence high performance tyres are quite thin in this area and when you see the sidewall of a LT rated tyre it can be as much as 11.5mm thick making the LT tyre have a much lower speed rating which you normally trade off with a much higher load rating

So with that in mind the load rating of a 4WD tyre is the most important measure in my view. Tread pattern is not overly important in the overall performance of the tyre albeit mud tyres will certainly be noisier and handle poorly in the wet due to having less rubber on the road and less complaint rubber to allow the tyre to flex under load as well hence the term "stiffer" comes into the discussion.

Our experience from around 20 years of tours and training is that the most important thing, generally, is the right tyre pressure and speed for the conditions supported by a tyre pressure monitoring system. But we then bring into the discussion sidewall depth and our 19" rim elephant in the room.

The more sidewall the easier it is to reduce pressure without significantly increasing the risk of a sidewall penetration but we do not drive off road in a perfect world so that risk simply changes depending on the terrain.

You will find few if any 19" tyres to suit that offer a load rating of >112 and there are plenty of threads on the forum indicating same size and rating by maker offers some rather interesting performances in the real world. So we tackle this by running our 19" rims and experimenting with the Hankook RF10 which seems to be pretty good and will shortly be putting a set of the Goodyear Duratrac on the car. Yes we also use 18" rims with Bridgestone D697's for regular and long outback trips as we hold the view that the 19's are OK for what we consider short term off-road work but not sustained touring

I hope that helps

Rob

[BenD4]

I was interested to see that in this 4x4 Australia trip sponsored by Land Rover Australia that they chose the Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac.

https://youtu.be/iQCoKBCiayA't=25m41s

They got a number of punchers (sidewalls damaged). Got me thinking that maybe 18's are a must to get back into a LT construction tyre.

[pprass]

So we tackle this by running our 19" rims and experimenting with the Hankook RF10 which seems to be pretty good and will shortly be putting a set of the Goodyear Duratrac on the car. Yes we also use 18" rims with Bridgestone D697's for regular and long outback trips as we hold the view that the 19's are OK for what we consider short term off-road work but not sustained touring

I hope that helps

Rob

Excellent information from a first hand experience/source :)
So with side wall strength the relevant measure is thickness!

Peter

[LandyAndy]

Thanks - I see the benefit of the 18" rims, but a tad too expensive for me.

So I thought which of the tyres have a stronger side wall and it looks to me that the Duratracs have 2 ply and the Dynapro have 3 ply - which I thought would therefore make the Dynapro a stronger tyre for towing a heavy van and help withstand side slashing when 4wding.

However reading about side wall ply - it is not as simple as just the number of plies. It depends on the construction and the materials used. So apparently in some cases a 2 ply tyre could be better than a 3 ply tyre? Also it seems that a higher ply tyre doesn't like being deflated for say sand work, or rocky tracks.

I find all of this very confusing (similar to comparing mobile phone plans - its hard to compare like with like :( ) and think I will just go with the Hankook Dynapro ATM's - they have to at least be better than the Wrangler HP All Weather that I currently have.

Peter.
For those of us in the same boat,ie cant afford Gordons wheels at the moment,can you let us which tyres you choose and how they compare,especially if you still have more rough road travels to come.
Thanks
Andrew

[RobA]

Excellent information from a first hand experience/source :)
So with side wall strength the relevant measure is thickness!

Peter

Peter more load rating which tends to derive sidewall thickness but not in a way that can be called regular when it comes to measurement I am afraid. The best tyre we have used for really serious off roading is the Goodyear MTR with Kevlar. Not light, a 123 load rating and capable of handling 12 psi for over 500km of really remote travel leaving me with a clear idea of what I prefer in some situations. But for us our preference is to run a decent all rounder normally in the AT to LT ratings hence our choice of the Bridgestone D697. Our focus is on tyre performance and reliability not the ability to last for 60,000km as quite frankly I don't care and by that I mean our tyres must have a tread depth of >50% to leave Adelaide on any trip. Less and you are courting punctures so our tyres are traded out at that which still does not mean we can not guarantee a puncture as there is no such thing as a puncture proof one just yet.

Rob

[pprass]

...can you let us which tyres you choose and how they compare,especially if you still have more rough road travels to come.
Sure! We will be towing the van and heading off to remote places in Queensland this year, so ample opportunities to test out new tyres.

[pprass]

OK - I decided on the Hankook Dynapro AT-M RF10 255/55/19. JAX quoted me $315 each and my 4wd mechanic matched the price. However it took 7 hours to fit, balance and do a wheel alignment :o
Here is my report after travelled about 4,000 kms on them in the following conditions:
1. Driving without a load on good sealed dry roads at various speeds.
Assessment - fantastic! Quite and smooth and the steering very responsive. However is that just the car in the first place or what! It was always quite and smooth - maybe not as responsive with the steering.
2. Driving through "S" bends and elbow bends at sometimes twice the recommended speed.
Assessment - brilliant! Car just stuck like sticky stuff and didn't even feel like letting go on the bends. Felt very confident. This test definitely showed that the Hankooks were better than the Wranglers - but the Wranglers were down on tread.
3. Driving in the wet
Assessment - great! No slips even when pushed on corners.
4. Driving on gravel roads
Assessment - such a great feeling. Once again no sign of slippage even when pushing it around the bends and no sign of the vehicle attempting to correct.
5. Driving up rocky, rutted mountain tracks.
Assessment - Good grip once again and no signs of any concern.
6. Driving on beach sand.
Assessment - After lowering the tyres and pressing half a dozen buttons the car just cruised along the thick sand. No sign of getting bogged or stalling.

Overall there is really nothing to report that is negative. They are good tyres and they give you confidence in negotiating all sorts of road conditions at different speeds. The 4wding along rough rocky tracks didn't knock them around as I thought they would be and I am not sure if it is just my imagination, but the ride does feel a bit softer - even though I have them at the same psi as the old tires.
The next test will be to see how long they last.

[LRD414]

However it took 7 hours to fit, balance and do a wheel alignment
Good report Peter. There must be a story to the 7hr fitting. Can it be shared?

Scott

[pprass]

7 hr fitting! Well the fitting and balance just took one hour or so, but the wheel alignment took a loong time. My mechanic has a state of the art wheel alignment machine, but he had to send the Discovery to the LR dealer to set the vehicle's computer to "Wheel Alignment" mode. Then of course after the wheel alignment it had to go back to set it to drive mode. The dealer of course didn't drop everything to do that, so it took a longtime for the whole process.

[LRD414]

... but he had to send the Discovery to the LR dealer to set the vehicle's computer to "Wheel Alignment" mode. Then of course after the wheel alignment it had to go back to set it to drive mode. The dealer of course didn't drop everything to do that, so it took a longtime for the whole process.
One advantage of your own diagnostic tool .... takes one minute on the forecourt at the tyre place.

Cheers,
Scott

[pprass]

Our mechanic is thinking of getting one, but he said that it would cost them a few thousand dollars!

[ytt105]

Nanocom or IID only about $600.

[sheerluck]

Not for multi-VIN, multi vehicle versions they're not;)

[Stuart02]

Nanocom or IID only about $600.

Tho with the nanocom you need unlock codes for the different models but yeah, not that expensive if you're working with LRs a lot

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[ytt105]

Each Nanocom code allows you to do all vehicles for that model and only cost a couple of hundred dollars each. Just buy new codes as required. Less than $2000 all up I'm sure.

[sheerluck]

Each Nanocom code allows you to do all vehicles for that model and only cost a couple of hundred dollars each. Just buy new codes as required. Less than $2000 all up I'm sure.

So we are back to the thousands, rather than just $600 then .:D

[RHS58]

The mudflap is certainly well secured in the pics supplied - what's the story there?

[pprass]

The mudflap is certainly well secured in the pics supplied - what's the story there?
Ha! - good pick up ;)
I paid $186 for those stupid spat style mud flaps and they are useless. Too stiff. After just one trip on the beach driving through thick sand the RHS one cracked. Then a couple of weeks later on a deeply rutted track going up a mountain the LHS one cracked.
So until I can work out what to replace them with (Andrew - Landyandy seems to have found a solution) I decided to repair them by attaching a sheet of rubber on the inside of the flaps, by bolting it to either side of the crack.
Seems to work ok, but I have been told that it now looks like I have a LR with attitude as I have studs in my flaps :p

[RHS58]

Ha! - good pick up ;)
I paid $186 for those stupid spat style mud flaps and they are useless. Too stiff. After just one trip on the beach driving through thick sand the RHS one cracked. Then a couple of weeks later on a deeply rutted track going up a mountain the LHS one cracked.
So until I can work out what to replace them with (Andrew - Landyandy seems to have found a solution) I decided to repair them by attaching a sheet of rubber on the inside of the flaps, by bolting it to either side of the crack.
Seems to work ok, but I have been told that it now looks like I have a LR with attitude as I have studs in my flaps :p

I use the eBay "Land Rovef" knock offs for about 1/4 the price.
Fit is slightly loose, but looks like OEM.
When they bugger up I'll make up a set like Andrews.

Ron

[Grentarc]

Also, any IID Tool will set TTM on any car apparently, that is one of the features not VIN locked.

[pprass]

When they bugger up I'll make up a set like Andrews.

Ron
I just sent Andrew a message asking for some details on how they are made.
btw - the rear spats are just as useless. They are too short, so less likelihood of scraping and cracking, but mud is still sprayed all over the front of our van - so what is the point of them! I use a Stone Stomper when travelling on unsealed roads, which stops the majority of stones flicking up to the van, but the fine sand and mud spray that gets through and around the mesh when wet is horrific!

[Grentarc]

I use the eBay "Land Rovef" knock offs for about 1/4 the price.
Fit is slightly loose, but looks like OEM.
When they bugger up I'll make up a set like Andrews.

Ron

I have those same ones and didn't put every screw in and used a bit of silicone where required. They flex a fair bit this way and haven't managed to damage them yet. I do have some extra heavy duty rubber ones to go on if I do manage to destroy them, but the plastic ones stop a lot of spray up the doors and on the front of the rear arches.

[Geary]

I use the eBay "Land Rovef" knock offs for about 1/4 the price.
Fit is slightly loose, but looks like OEM.
When they bugger up I'll make up a set like Andrews.

Ron

Any chance you have a link? There are a few on there and price varies quite a bit so would prefer to know which ones worked for you.

[BMKal]

Also, any IID Tool will set TTM on any car apparently, that is one of the features not VIN locked.

Not VIN locked, but it is Model locked. So if you buy one for D4, cannot set TTM on any other model (eg. RRS) with same IID Tool. ;)

[Grentarc]

Not VIN locked, but it is Model locked. So if you buy one for D4, cannot set TTM on any other model (eg. RRS) with same IID Tool. ;)

Ahh excellent to know!

[Graeme]

The dongle in the link below would be worth inquiring about.
DA-Dongle TTMT (Jaguar Land Rover Tight Tolerance Mode Toggle) – Diagnostic Associates Ltd (http://www.diagnostic-associates.com/collections/servicetools/products/da-dongle-ttmt-jaguar-land-rover-tight-tolerance-mode-toggle)

[RHS58]

Any chance you have a link? There are a few on there and price varies quite a bit so would prefer to know which ones worked for you.

Was almost 3 yrs ago.
I think the ones I got were from a Chinese seller, and the same as those from the Aussie sellers, only cheaper.
Being a tight arse, I would've bought the cheapest.
Arrived very quickly IIRC - I remember having them before I had taken delivery of the D4.
Just make sure the ones you buy are for your D4. Some sellers offer ones that fit D3 and D4, but they are different.
Took about half an hour to fit all 4.
Ron

[LRD414]

I just sent Andrew a message asking for some details on how they are made.
Have a look at this thread, lots of good ideas. DIY isn't too difficult:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/203930-d4-mudflaps.html


I use the eBay "Land Rovef" knock offs for about 1/4 the price. Fit is slightly loose, but looks like OEM.
My experience with these is that they were hopeless at protecting against stone chipping on the rear wheel arch flares but probably ok for mild duty.
Binned them and used D2 ones on the front and Defender ones on the rear.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/207.jpg

Cheers,
Scott

[PBding]

OK - I decided on the Hankook Dynapro AT-M RF10 255/55/19. JAX quoted me $315 each and my 4wd mechanic matched the price. However it took 7 hours to fit, balance and do a wheel alignment :o
Here is my report after travelled about 4,000 kms on them in the following conditions:
1. Driving without a load on good sealed dry roads at various speeds.
Assessment - fantastic! Quite and smooth and the steering very responsive. However is that just the car in the first place or what! It was always quite and smooth - maybe not as responsive with the steering.
2. Driving through "S" bends and elbow bends at sometimes twice the recommended speed.
Assessment - brilliant! Car just stuck like sticky stuff and didn't even feel like letting go on the bends. Felt very confident. This test definitely showed that the Hankooks were better than the Wranglers - but the Wranglers were down on tread.
3. Driving in the wet
Assessment - great! No slips even when pushed on corners.
4. Driving on gravel roads
Assessment - such a great feeling. Once again no sign of slippage even when pushing it around the bends and no sign of the vehicle attempting to correct.
5. Driving up rocky, rutted mountain tracks.
Assessment - Good grip once again and no signs of any concern.
6. Driving on beach sand.
Assessment - After lowering the tyres and pressing half a dozen buttons the car just cruised along the thick sand. No sign of getting bogged or stalling.

Overall there is really nothing to report that is negative. They are good tyres and they give you confidence in negotiating all sorts of road conditions at different speeds. The 4wding along rough rocky tracks didn't knock them around as I thought they would be and I am not sure if it is just my imagination, but the ride does feel a bit softer - even though I have them at the same psi as the old tires.
The next test will be to see how long they last.

Got them in a 17" (LT type)size on my Pajero- yes I'm thinking of moving to a D4--Agree with these comments, but not yet been on sand, they are only $229 in the 17", maybe will not upgrade to D4, anyway they're pretty good when geocaching as well.

[Drizzle]

The dongle in the link below would be worth inquiring about.

DA-Dongle TTMT (Jaguar Land Rover Tight Tolerance Mode Toggle) ? Diagnostic Associates Ltd (http://www.diagnostic-associates.com/collections/servicetools/products/da-dongle-ttmt-jaguar-land-rover-tight-tolerance-mode-toggle)



The local Bob Jane advised they use a "dongle" and they were very aware of the requirement for TTM during a wheel alignment.

[Drizzle]

Got them in a 17" (LT type)size on my Pajero- yes I'm thinking of moving to a D4--Agree with these comments, but not yet been on sand, they are only $229 in the 17", maybe will not upgrade to D4, anyway they're pretty good when geocaching as well.



Welcome!

If you haven't already seen it, make sure to check out the Faq for heaps of good info about your imminent D4: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/93220-aulro-discovery-3-4-rrs-faq.html

[LRD414]

The local Bob Jane advised they use a "dongle" and they were very aware of the requirement for TTM during a wheel alignment.

Which Bob Jane?

Scott

[Drizzle]

Which Bob Jane?

Scott



Aspley

[pprass]

I have now had the Hankook Dynapro AT-M tyres for 17 months and travelled approx 56,000 kms on all sorts of road conditions and a lot of the time towing a 3 tonne van. We have been off road - and I mean really off road as in no road or track; we have driven up to Cape York along the Peninsula Development Road/Telegraph Road/Bamaga Rd; To Uluru along the Larapinta Dr/Luritja Rd, and of course driven on beach sand and thousands of kms on bitumen and good gravel roads.

During that time I have had two punctures (both in the rear tyres) - one which was in a nasty spot near the shoulder and couldn't/wouldn't be repaired, so it had to be replaced and the other developed a slow leak from some minuscule piece of metal embedding through the tread of the tyre. Then just last week when driving along the Hume Hwy at 110 kph, I had a massive blow out (again one of the rear tyres) and by the time I stopped there was steam/smoke billowing from one very messed up shredded tyre.
The tyre tread is still looking quite good on the 2 front tyres that have done the full 56k and I am guessing that I can get another 15k out of them. So regarding wearability, comfort and noise - I think that the Hankooks are very good tyres. However I just don't think they have enough tread or strength to ward off even small pieces of metal or roots that are sticking out of the ground.

So I started looking for 2 replacement tyres with the aim of eventually replacing all of them and I honed in on General Grabbers AT3 as they seemed to have a good thick tread which is a bit more aggressive than the Hankook tread - problem was that no one in Port Macquarie had any nor could they get any in. Apparently there are none in the country at the moment (?)

I then mentioned to the tyre dealer that the best tyres I ever had on my previous Nissan Patrol 4wd were Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 - he then immediately recommended the Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac and said that they are even better than the Mickey Thompson's! I have now ordered 2 Duratrac tyres and will put them on the back of the Discovery and hope that I get as good wear from the Hankooks with added puncture protection :[smilebigeye]