EGR Emulators

[LandyAndy]

Do they suit the latest D4 3.0lts???
Do the ecus detect that sometthing is amis at all???
How much????
I assume one simply unplugs before goint to a dealer and nothing can be detected???
Sounds great.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Hi Guys.
Anybody heard of these???
See my link,perhaps its best discussed here rather than the vendors area.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2488884#post2488884
Andrew

[Graeme]

The 3.0 compares manifold pressure with MAF values and gets upset if there's mismatch when the EGR valves are supposedly open, even suggesting a problem with EGR. Its the reason why EGR valves can't be blocked on these vehicles.

[Gally]

Hi Landyandy, the set of emulators in the pictures will do all the 2.7 TDV6 Variants and the 3.6 TDV8

The 3.0 D4 has a different plug. It is the same plug as the the Defender Puma EGR.
I have EGR Emulators for the D4 3.0 that have been tested I am just waiting on Plugs to release them to everyone.

[Gally]

Hi Graeme, you are exactly right.

I have been testing D4 emulators for some time now and I have a set with a link harness that connects into the Maf.


It keeps the the system happy and the EGR's can be capped off. They run great with no problems at all. I am just waiting on plugs to release them to everyone.

The current emulators will run all the 2.7 TDV6 Variants (D3,D4,RRS)
and also the 3.6 TDV8 RRS

The D4 3.0 has different plugs. They are the same as the Defender Puma.
There is also an extra calibration step to be taken care of in the computer. It calibrates min and max valve values.

The 3.0 ones will be available shortly.

(Going off on a tangent)
I started the idea of the emulators about 3 years ago and one thing i was lead to believe was that the IMT (Inlet manifold tuning valve) or butterfly closed when the EGR's are open to restrict incoming air and only draw on the exhaust gas.

What i have found in testing is that the IMT rarely moves from about 12% open, even when the EGR valves are fully open, and instead causes a mixing of the gas, a bit like a swirl valve.

The engine always seems quieter at idle. it just sounds nicer. I think this is due to the fact that at idle the valves are open to about 85-95% and then work their way back to closed.

I have tested the warm up strategy over and over again and it is a minimal amount of time extra on the warm up without the valves.

I have also tested the DPF regeneration on the 3.0 and whilst the EGR's are open when you start the regen process on the computer it is purely for warm up. Whilst driving, the PCM will only carry out a regen when the engine is above the set regen temp.

[justinc]

Hi mate do you intend doing one for the 2.4 and 2.2 puma? Can you pm me an approx price?

Jc ☺

[Gally]

I did do one for the 2.2 and 2.4 but the biggest problem i had was the plugs. They are so hard to get hold off. I used a small pcb board with pins attached to interface the plug.

What i ended up doing was trawling through all the PCM files and comparing them to ones that I had done the EGR update to with SDD and Autologic

I could then work out which part of the file operated the EGR.
I deleted the EGR info and got a result. It took ages to find all the right bytes. The lads in the workshop would laugh at me and shout "6 months and still trying to delete that crap"

It worked in the end though. It was a welcome sound to be able to turn the engine off and not hear that horrible screech as the EGR self cleans.

[Graeme]

I like the sound of what you seem to have achieved but wonder what the effect of the link to the MAF might do especially if it results in changes to fuelling. Can you elaborate?

Combustion noise at idle should be greater with EGR disabled which seems at odds with your report of a quieter engine but I have no experience with noise changes from less interference with airflow by the inlet butterfly.

My old 3.0 D4 is still in the family, a brother has a 3.6 RRS and I have a 4.4 TDV8 RRV so I am very interested in your product. Have you done any research on the 4.4 TDV8, which has 1 EGR valve but 2 MAFs like the 3.0? The 4.4 is the V8 equivalent of the 3.0 V6 with a primary and a secondary turbo. I haven't attempted to discover if the 4.4 uses the same EGR connector as the 3.0 but as the 4.4's EGR valve is totally different to the 3.0, its unlikely to be the same.

[Fatso]

Hi Guys.
Anybody heard of these???
See my link,perhaps its best discussed here rather than the vendors area.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2488884#post2488884
Andrew



Have a look at Bell Auto Services website in the UK , also ( Disco 3 UK ) has a lot of info on emulators , not sure if they are the same as described here in the link though , ie no remap etc .

[Fatso]

When fitting one of these on the 2.7 TD6 does the butterfly have to be removed as in the UK emulator ? .
Or are you saying that the Butterfly is always only 12% open ? , or is fully open when fitted with this emulator . Thanks 4 any info.

[winaje]

Gally, do you have pricing and availability timeframe please, plus more info?

[SBD4]

...... It was a welcome sound to be able to turn the engine off and not hear that horrible screech as the EGR self cleans.
Huh... so that's what that sound is. It always seemed to coincide with me taking me foot off the brake after turning off the engine so I assumed it was something to do with that. Good to finally know what it is.

[Graeme]

They're on the web-site Will.

[Narangga]

See here

www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2489088

and follow link tho their website

[jonesy63]

Hmm... so paying $500 to have it done as an add-on to a remap is about market price. Plus no additional hardware to be seen/carried.

[Graeme]

Is EGR delete/disable readily available locally via remap for the D4 2.7 and the 3.0 and also without a performance upgrade for the 3.0?

[Gally]

When fitting one of these on the 2.7 TD6 does the butterfly have to be removed as in the UK emulator ? .
Or are you saying that the Butterfly is always only 12% open ? , or is fully open when fitted with this emulator . Thanks 4 any info.

NO the butterfly is left in.

I think with the other emulators, they need an external power source to be wired to and they are set to output a closed EGR voltage. The EGR map is then altered to 0% open, Keeping the ecu happy.

In the early days when i tried keeping the value to closed and editing the map i would often get the P0402-22 egr excessive flow detected, until the butterfly map was edited.

My emulators fully emulate an EGR, even the clean cycle.
On all my testing I have never seen the IMT close for the purpose of the EGR's

On all the ones we have trialed and fitted in the workshop the butterfly has been left in and there have been no running issues at all, with owners reporting on average 10% fuel saving and a noticeably quieter smoother running engine.

[Gally]

Is EGR delete/disable readily available locally via remap for the D4 2.7 and the 3.0 and also without a performance upgrade for the 3.0?

The Emulators are all that is needed for the D4 2.7. just plug them in and drive.
I will have the 3.0 ones shortly.

Ref the fueling with the Maf change:
I have the Maf and Map correlation to less than 1% away from its fault tolerance. That figure was a bit ambitious but it works and the system is happy.

Fuel consumption has consistently been less. I think that the 1% is negligible and the fact that fresh air is going in to the engine instead of a exhaust gas / fresh air mix, counteracts any effects and surpasses it to give the 8-12% fuel saving.

[Gally]

Back to the engine note / sound changes,

I first noticed it on the TDV8. Whilst testing, the TDV8 EGR's are open all the time at idle on average 89% open. You can here the distinct note change of the engine when they finally close. Its reminds me a bit of what the old air injection pumps sounded like on warm up.

The TDV6 are open for much less of a time on startup but open to 85-95% when driving at around 1800-2800 Rpm. 2000prm and constant speed is the favorite setting for egr faults as they are fully open.

[Stuart02]

Back to the engine note / sound changes,

I first noticed it on the TDV8. Whilst testing, the TDV8 EGR's are open all the time at idle on average 89% open. You can here the distinct note change of the engine when they finally close. Its reminds me a bit of what the old air injection pumps sounded like on warm up.

The TDV6 are open for much less of a time on startup but open to 85-95% when driving at around 1800-2800 Rpm. 2000prm and constant speed is the favorite setting for egr faults as they are fully open.

Yeah our 3.6 TDV8 is loud for the first 5 to 10 minutes of driving

[Gally]

I have updated the price of the emulators.
It is $489.09 + Gst for the pair.

Thanks

[winaje]

They're on the web-site Will.

Edited my post to clarify that I was asking for pricing etc on the solution Gally is working on...

[rar110]

Gally,

do you think reticulated exhaust gases kill turbos in the tdv8?

[Graeme]

Not removing the rear drain plug at oil changes will not do your turbos any favours.

[Graeme]

I understood that the 2.7 kit is available now at the web-site price.

[Gally]

They are $538 for the pair including the Gst

Link to buy: https://store.autocode.com.au/egr-emulator.html

Forum Emulator post: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2488884#post2488884

Thanks

[Gally]

From what I have seen I don't think EGR's have any bearing on the lifespan of a turbo.

Like Graeme says doing the oil change correctly is critical.

There is a lubrication mod from the factory that deals with poor turbo lubrication. It comes with a new pipe to rectify the issue.

I have only ever seen issues when an EGR has permanently stuck open.
There was a couple of cases were it blocked up just about everything on one bank and caused quite a bit of damage to injectors, valves, egr cooler and map sensor but incredibly the turbo survived.

There is a huge difference in how clean the top end is when the EGR's are closed. So it can only help to improve the quality of combustion and look after the sensors and actuators on its way.

Good servicing and a good fuel system cleaner every 3 months is the way to go. Fuel alone just isn't enough these days.

[Ean Austral]

I clean the Y piece and the senser and as much of the inlet side as I can every oil change on my TDV6 D3 , and when you see how much gunk is there after 10,000ks I cant imagine what the inlet side is like where I cant get to.


Anything that stops the EGR going back into the engine has to be a step in the right direction.


Cheers Ean

[scarry]

From what I have seen I don't think EGR's have any bearing on the lifespan of a turbo.

Like Graeme says doing the oil change correctly is critical.

There is a lubrication mod from the factory that deals with poor turbo lubrication. It comes with a new pipe to rectify the issue.

I have only ever seen issues when an EGR has permanently stuck open.
There was a couple of cases were it blocked up just about everything on one bank and caused quite a bit of damage to injectors, valves, egr cooler and map sensor but incredibly the turbo survived.

There is a huge difference in how clean the top end is when the EGR's are closed. So it can only help to improve the quality of combustion and look after the sensors and actuators on its way.

Good servicing and a good fuel system cleaner every 3 months is the way to go. Fuel alone just isn't enough these days.


What type is the best for this?

There are heaps of types,but i never know which is the best to use.

SO with the 2.7,just plug in the emulator and away you go?

If you want to take them off for whatever reason at a later date,just unplug and plug in the EGRs and all good?

Would there be a good chance the EGRs would seize up sitting doing nothing for a few years or at a guess they should be OK?

[Grentarc]

I am definitely interested in the 3.0 kit if/when available.
Just a quick question though, engine temperature - others have stated (on other forums etc) that with EGR in place, lower engine and exhaust temperatures are recorded, this being due to the poorer combustion effect. With the emulators, have you got any data on engine and exhaust gas temperatures?
--
Justin

[Marty110]

Whilst testing, the TDV8 EGR's are open all the time at idle on average 89% open. You can here the distinct note change of the engine when they finally close. Its reminds me a bit of what the old air injection pumps sounded like on warm up.
Hi Mark, when fitting these to an older TDV8 how can I be sure the EGR's are actually fully closing? That is, are there any fault codes that are recorded if they dont fully close or any symptoms? Like if they are partially gunked up. Or should I strip and clean the EGR's when fitting the emulators? (a PITA of a job apparently). Thanks

[phl]

Is EGR still necessary if diesels go with AdBlue, as it would appear the idea of both is to reduce NOx emissions?

[Grentarc]

The problem with AdBlue is domestic users of diesel won't want to fill up with fuel AND urea. How many will forget to fill up with the urea? Also, I doubt there will be retrofit kits for AdBlue for our vehicles

[Gally]

I am definitely interested in the 3.0 kit if/when available.
Just a quick question though, engine temperature - others have stated (on other forums etc) that with EGR in place, lower engine and exhaust temperatures are recorded, this being due to the poorer combustion effect. With the emulators, have you got any data on engine and exhaust gas temperatures?
--
Justin

I logged the temps in SDD pre emulators and post emulators with warm up times and drive cycles.

I found that there was a minimal increase in temperature on warm up due to a better combustion, owing to the lack of inert gas and soot from the EGR's.

If I drove the car hard with the EGR's connected there was the same increase in temperature.

Once the engine had reached operating temperature there was no noticeable difference.

The EGR's only open at such a small rev band and is closed on acceleration.
So the car is doing nothing that it isn't already designed to do.

With the recycled hot exhaust gas being removed from the intake, you are increasing the efficiency of the engine. It can do the same work easier. For a given torque value and rev point the PCM can pick a lower point in the map to do the same work.
This is were you get your increase in fuel economy from.

(I have tuned all models and they have the same increases in temp and some have done over 250,000 Km's with no ill effects )

I also noticed a decrease in temperature on the EGR cooler itself. The cooling system is constantly cooling a flow of exhaust gas through both the EGR coolers. say the exhaust gas is 560 deg. you have taken some of this load of the cooling system.

On a few cars it was noticed that the coolers had actually started leaking coolant. This adds steam in the combustion, which can really stress the engine. so with the valves closed you remove this potential problem.

All in all its only ever going to be a positive thing.

[Gally]

Hi Mark, when fitting these to an older TDV8 how can I be sure the EGR's are actually fully closing? That is, are there any fault codes that are recorded if they dont fully close or any symptoms? Like if they are partially gunked up. Or should I strip and clean the EGR's when fitting the emulators? (a PITA of a job apparently). Thanks

I wouldn't worry about stripping them and your right it inst the favorite job in the workshop.

When you put the ignition on the engine management looks for a closed egr value of about 0.8 volts. if it doesn't see this then when you start the engine you would get an F for fault in the LCD of the instrument cluster.

for those with EGR faults already logged, it is worth clearing them and then putting the ignition on to check the values as most faults are logged for the opening range of the valve as it gets clogged up.

If you have a volt meter you can test both.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/smp7i8fa0fkvj0j/emulator_plug.jpg?raw=1

don't worry about the wire colour, it changes from model to model, just the position is important.

Pin 1 (Green in the image) is 5v+
Pin2 (white in the image) is the signal wire.
Pin 6 (transparent sheath) is earth

Pin 6 is easy to find on all models with this plug as its always the one after the pin socket with the small rubber plug in it. (Pin 5)

Put your ignition on and put your volt probe into pin2 (white in the image) and you should see something between 0.7 and 0.9 volts.
It will be a very similar voltage on both sides.
Put your probe into the back of the pin socket nice and straight as you do not want to short it with the pin next to it.

This is an easy way to prove your EGR's are closed if you don't have a diagnostic scanner.

[rar110]

From what I have seen I don't think EGR's have any bearing on the lifespan of a turbo. Like Graeme says doing the oil change correctly is critical. There is a lubrication mod from the factory that deals with poor turbo lubrication. It comes with a new pipe to rectify the issue.

Is the factory mod for the 3.6 TDV8?

[Gally]

What type is the best for this?

There are heaps of types,but i never know which is the best to use.

SO with the 2.7,just plug in the emulator and away you go?

If you want to take them off for whatever reason at a later date,just unplug and plug in the EGRs and all good?

Would there be a good chance the EGRs would seize up sitting doing nothing for a few years or at a guess they should be OK?

The one Kevin sells at Rover tech is Dyna Fuel. It has always given very good results. from dirty inlet manifolds to to DPF's with low flow.

STP and Lucas also do very good fuel system cleaners.

The emulators are exactly that - Plug and Play.

When disconnecting them, just turn off the ignition, remove the key and wait a minute for everything to shut down and then disconnect.

Reconnect originals and then put the key on. There will be no faults stored and everything is good, well not that good because you have reconnected you EGR's lol

The EGR's don't stand much chance of seizing because the actuator will be behind the closed valve. As long as they are working now I would think they would be ok.

Also after 3 or 4 days of driving it tends to blow out a lot of the buildup in inlet tracts so everything get a bit cleaner.

[Gally]

Is the factory mod for the 3.6 TDV8?

Hi, yes, I think the TDV8 benefits the most from them. They are also just that little bit easier to do. The plugs are sat right on top of the engine just asking to be disconnected.

[phl]

The problem with AdBlue is domestic users of diesel won't want to fill up with fuel AND urea. How many will forget to fill up with the urea? Also, I doubt there will be retrofit kits for AdBlue for our vehicles

No, unfortunately there will unlikely be retrofit kits, although on DISCO4, there appears to be some D4s with AdBlue, as there are teething problems with the system (sensors for AdBlue levels not working correctly, putting vehicle in low power mode).

The refilling isn't that often by the looks of it, several tanks full between refills. And looking at where you can get it, Shell has quite a few places that sells AdBlue alongside diesel, and you can also buy containers of the stuff.

Just sounds so much more elegant than a system that is high maintenance by necessity.

I'd certainly be interested in the 3.0 V6 kit when it comes out, as you get modest power increase and lower fuel consumption due to more efficient combustion, as well as removes the hassle of a dirty EGR valve problem most people seem to encounter at some stage.

Gally, can the modules be made smaller, such that it can plug into one box rather than two?

[Gally]

Hi yes, that has been suggested and I am looking into fitting it into one box and having a mounting bracket to mount it under the brake pipes on the drivers side.

I think I initially did the 2 boxes so there was a bit more versatility in where you could mount them.

I have mounted them a few ways.
You can have 1 either side so the passenger side was behind the main battery and the passenger side was in the box.

Or you can have both on one side.

My other way of thinking was if anybody damaged a plug I could send out 1 unit instead of the whole thing.

Depending on what the general consensus is it may be good to produce both types?

[Graeme]

A return for repair service should avoid the need for different packaging options.

[Graeme]

Have you looked at the 4.4 TDV8's EGR valve's electrical connector? From parts diagrams it appears that it probably uses the same electric motor c/w connector as the 3.0 which would not be surprising, being of the same development era.

[winaje]

Not removing the rear drain plug at oil changes will not do your turbos any favours.

Is there more info on this somewhere?

[Graeme]

The 3.6 has 2 drain plugs, with the rearmost one draining a reservoir from at least the RH turbo drain but its often not removed during oil changes so sediment accumulates interfering with the turbo drain flow. The 4.4 has a similar rear drain plug but no main drain plug.

[rar110]

Hi, yes, I think the TDV8 benefits the most from them. They are also just that little bit easier to do. The plugs are sat right on top of the engine just asking to be disconnected.

If the TDV8 EGR stays open longer on startup I can see why these motors don't like short runs, which is what I often do. However, I haven't noticed a change in the sound of the motor after its warmed up.

Yes the plugs are easy to access. Your site mentions the RRS, but I assume it also suits the TDV8 RRV?

[Fatso]

[QUOTE=Gally;2489214]NO the butterfly is left in.

I think with the other emulators, they need an external power source to be wired to and they are set to output a closed EGR voltage. The EGR map is then altered to 0% open, Keeping the ecu happy.


Do these emulators need a power source of some kind or is it built in ?.

[phl]

My other way of thinking was if anybody damaged a plug I could send out 1 unit instead of the whole thing.


Might actually be better to unplug both rather than just one, in case it does funny things to the engine running one emulator and one standard issue.

[Catmatt]

Do they suit the latest D4 3.0lts???
Do the ecus detect that sometthing is amis at all???
How much????
I assume one simply unplugs before goint to a dealer and nothing can be detected???
Sounds great.
Andrew

Are you aware that you can get your ECU remapped with software written in that keeps the EGR vales permanently closed? - thus never having an issue with coked up EGR valves sticking open and causing 'limp-home-mode' or complete lack of power....or the 'screeching' of EGR vales going through a self clean that is only good for a limited time????

Had my ECU remapped on my 2.7L 2010 D4 both for performance and EGR fix and have been smiling ever since. Dealer workshop know it has been modified after a test drive and comment as such but completely undetected by LR diagnostic equipment. Wasn't cheap but the best $$ I have spent on the car

[Grentarc]

Are you aware that you can get your ECU remapped with software written in that keeps the EGR vales permanently closed?

This is a great way of doing it if you are wanting a remap, but for me, I don't want or need a remap yet. I would like to disable EGR but I don't have any desire at the moment for a remap. Maybe one day I will get the ECU tuned, and then I will also disable EGR, and would then probably on sell my EGR emulator kit to someone who would like one.

[LandyAndy]

Are you aware that you can get your ECU remapped with software written in that keeps the EGR vales permanently closed? - thus never having an issue with coked up EGR valves sticking open and causing 'limp-home-mode' or complete lack of power....or the 'screeching' of EGR vales going through a self clean that is only good for a limited time????

Had my ECU remapped on my 2.7L 2010 D4 both for performance and EGR fix and have been smiling ever since. Dealer workshop know it has been modified after a test drive and comment as such but completely undetected by LR diagnostic equipment. Wasn't cheap but the best $$ I have spent on the car

Yes I am aware.A 5 year warranty prevents me from going down that road.The LR diagnostic gear cant see it,but a factory forensic examination of the ECU will see it.
Andrew

[Meken]

Are you aware that you can get your ECU remapped with software written in that keeps the EGR vales permanently closed? - thus never having an issue with coked up EGR valves sticking open and causing 'limp-home-mode' or complete lack of power....or the 'screeching' of EGR vales going through a self clean that is only good for a limited time????



Had my ECU remapped on my 2.7L 2010 D4 both for performance and EGR fix and have been smiling ever since. Dealer workshop know it has been modified after a test drive and comment as such but completely undetected by LR diagnostic equipment. Wasn't cheap but the best $$ I have spent on the car


Can't remap D4 3.0lt without cracking open the Ecu - pretty sure that would upset LRA

[Meken]

Ps I'd be interested in the 3.0 sdv6 versionp

[Gally]

Can't remap D4 3.0lt without cracking open the Ecu - pretty sure that would upset LRA


It certainly would and has. I have been doing the remap and delete for some time with all models including the 2.2 and 2.4 Puma.

So many people in remote locations were asking me was there a fix without tampering with the ecu. That's how the emulators came about.

The beauty of them is, any body, anywhere in the world can just plug these in and its done.

[bobakers]

Hi Gally
I'm interested in purchasing the emulators.

With fitting the emulators is there any consideration needed to be taken into account with regards to the fuel map. IE at high load can I expect that EGT will remain within a safe parameter post fitting the emulators or does it have no effect?

This would be on a stock 2010 D4 2.7 tdv6 which tows a 3.3 ton van.
thanks
Bob

[Gally]

Hi Bob, non what so ever. You will be fine.

A few of the guys here have come back from a trip over east. They had the Emulators fitted and covered 14500 km's towing 2 ton camper trailers and they said the weather was about 45 deg.

All went very well for them.

There's also a good customer of Rover Tech that has A TDV8 with them fitted and has recently done the Gib river road with no temp problems at all.

Thanks, Mark

[Fatso]

NO the butterfly is left in.

I think with the other emulators, they need an external power source to be wired to and they are set to output a closed EGR voltage. The EGR map is then altered to 0% open, Keeping the ecu happy.

In the early days when i tried keeping the value to closed and editing the map i would often get the P0402-22 egr excessive flow detected, until the butterfly map was edited.

My emulators fully emulate an EGR, even the clean cycle.
On all my testing I have never seen the IMT close for the purpose of the EGR's

On all the ones we have trialed and fitted in the workshop the butterfly has been left in and there have been no running issues at all, with owners reporting on average 10% fuel saving and a noticeably quieter smoother running engine.

A few yrs ago I blanked my 2007 RRS tdv6 egr and removed the B/fly , and got a PO402 ex egr flow which I put down to the MAFF reading excess flow when the egr should have been open I guess , left it that way for about 5 months and no other problems or codes were evident . As I was not sure about the fuelling I put it all back to normal .
As you mentioned the same code in development I take it that I will not have to remap anything in my vehicle when I fit the emulator . Thanks 4 any info .

[Gally]

Hi, yes that's right no remap involved just plug and play.

Thanks, Mark

[Marty110]

So I fitted the emulators yesterday. Hardest part was finding somewhere to mount them under the hood as I have an Optima yellow top in the spare battery cubby with no real room to mount the emulators. Less than half hour all up though. Took for 150km drive today - no error codes on my Gap diagnostic tool so all good there. Car still a sweet, quiet, powerful drive, only real difference noticed was the lack of squeak, squeak when turning the car off - a nice thing to be gone!

To be honest I dont care if I dont get better economy or power or what ever as I was already happy there. The main thing for me is that at my milage I am glad to have the EGR's closed permanently and avoiding possibly looming removal for strip and clean or replace - a PITA of a job and probably more expensive than the emulators (I cant do the job myself you see so would have to pay someone).

The product appears to be well put together, easy to instal and Mark is very supportive - sent me pics of how to install and advice on checking whether the EGR's were closed properly before proceeding with the instal. Now running some fuel additive for a clean up and wondering if I should also run some Revive through the intake system.

Well done Mark for a great product and awesome service.

[scarry]

Can't remap D4 3.0lt without cracking open the Ecu - pretty sure that would upset LRA

You can have the 2.7 programmed to have the EGR's shut permanently and have blank off plates fitted, with out performance upgrade as well, Bruce Davis does it.

[Gally]

So I fitted the emulators yesterday. Hardest part was finding somewhere to mount them under the hood as I have an Optima yellow top in the spare battery cubby with no real room to mount the emulators. Less than half hour all up though. Took for 150km drive today - no error codes on my Gap diagnostic tool so all good there. Car still a sweet, quiet, powerful drive, only real difference noticed was the lack of squeak, squeak when turning the car off - a nice thing to be gone!

To be honest I dont care if I dont get better economy or power or what ever as I was already happy there. The main thing for me is that at my milage I am glad to have the EGR's closed permanently and avoiding possibly looming removal for strip and clean or replace - a PITA of a job and probably more expensive than the emulators (I cant do the job myself you see so would have to pay someone).

The product appears to be well put together, easy to instal and Mark is very supportive - sent me pics of how to install and advice on checking whether the EGR's were closed properly before proceeding with the instal. Now running some fuel additive for a clean up and wondering if I should also run some Revive through the intake system.

Well done Mark for a great product and awesome service.

Thanks Marty, I really appreciate your great feedback. :D

[Meken]

You can have the 2.7 programmed to have the EGR's shut permanently and have blank off plates fitted, with out performance upgrade as well, Bruce Davis does it.


But I have the 3.0 d4 so I can't do a remap via obd, and I'm not keen on cracking open the ecu on my warranted $100k car. So plug & play emulator for me :)

[Marty110]

But I have the 3.0 d4 so I can't do a remap via obd, and I'm not keen on cracking open the ecu on my warranted $100k car. So plug & play emulator for me :)
yes, and you can unplug and remove at any time to go back to normal - if you needed to take in to the dealer for a warranty claim, for example. And the good thing is you dont need to remap or patch the ecu. In my case I already have an Autologic remap so now have the best of both worlds....

[DiscoDB]

Yes I am aware.A 5 year warranty prevents me from going down that road.The LR diagnostic gear cant see it,but a factory forensic examination of the ECU will see it.
Andrew

Of course not an issue if you bought a VW Diesel - they supply the mod as standard. :p:p:p

But I do like the idea of a plug in emulator that can be easily removed. :)

[Fatso]

The Emulators from Mark arrived today look really well made , took all of 15mins to fit as I already had the plugs off the egr,s , been for a drive and no faults logged , will go for a good drive tomorrow .


It will be so good to not have to worry about all the crap going into the engine intake and will save me pulling intake apart each service to clean out .
Good work Mark and thanks for your help . Al .

[rar110]

The Emulators from Mark arrived today look really well made , took all of 15mins to fit as I already had the plugs off the egr,s , been for a drive and no faults logged , will go for a good drive tomorrow . It will be so good to not have to worry about all the crap going into the engine intake and will save me pulling intake apart each service to clean out . Good work Mark and thanks for your help . Al .

Al, what vehicle did you fit it to and did you notice any change in the motor?

Thanks.

[Fatso]

Al, what vehicle did you fit it to and did you notice any change in the motor?

Thanks.


Fitted to my 2007 RRS 2.7TD6. Did not notice ant discernable change in motor . Give mark a ring for any tech info he is very helpful . Al

[phl]

Is it worthwhile using an intake cleaner (there are several spray products around) to keep the system clean whilst the SDV6 version is awaiting production? Of course the sellers claim the earth, but do they work?

[rar110]

Is it worthwhile using an intake cleaner (there are several spray products around) to keep the system clean whilst the SDV6 version is awaiting production? Of course the sellers claim the earth, but do they work?

I've used Revive. It made a difference.

[Fatso]

Is it worthwhile using an intake cleaner (there are several spray products around) to keep the system clean whilst the SDV6 version is awaiting production? Of course the sellers claim the earth, but do they work?


From experience with my intake there is nothing in a can that will clean out the black gooey gunk that is being pumped into the intake and beyond , in fact I had to use Brake Cleaner to clean out the "Y " piece of the inlet .
You can check yours ,if you remove the MAP sensor on top of the air intake you can check its condition for the build up of oily soot .

[phl]

I've used Revive. It made a difference.

What's the cost of Revive? I'm not sure how clean or dirty mine is, but it can't hurt to carry out preventive maintenance before there is a problem.

[Edit] Just saw the price; rather expensive...

[rar110]

What's the cost of Revive? I'm not sure how clean or dirty mine is, but it can't hurt to carry out preventive maintenance before there is a problem. [Edit] Just saw the price; rather expensive...

Not compared to the cost of EGRs and turbos. I put it in the same category as quality oil and filters.

[Marty110]

To be honest I dont care if I dont get better economy or power or what ever as I was already happy there. The main thing for me is that at my milage I am glad to have the EGR's closed permanently and avoiding possibly looming removal for strip and clean or replace - a PITA of a job and probably more expensive than the emulators (I cant do the job myself you see so would have to pay someone).


OK emulators fitted and a few km under the belt and can report that I have a 9% improvement in economy. I expect that it will improve further once I get a chance to clean the MAF sensors. As stated, I was happy with it before so this is all bonus :D

[B-A-S]

I have a few hundred EGR plugs I can sell if your stuck getting them for your emulators.

[Gally]

Hi, how are you. Thanks for the offer. I have bags of the early plugs thanks.
It was the D4 plugs I needed but luckily I tracked them down and now the harnesses are made ready to release the D4 Emulators.

I appreciate the help. Thanks

[strydes]

How soon do you expect to have them up on your site for sale Gally?

[rar110]

Gally
Have you measured EGTs and EGR activation to look at the impact of recirculated exhaust gasses on quickly reducing EGTs.

Is there a pattern to the ECU opening the EGRs?

I could be in the market for something like this but am concerned about temp spikes and heat generally in the tdv8 especially when towing.

My tdv8 is currently running great.

[Gally]

How soon do you expect to have them up on your site for sale Gally?

Not too long at all now. I have been putting them through their paces and they are working very well.

[Graeme]

Do you intend having a single EGR emulator with 3.0 style connector with MAF connection for the 4.4?

[Gally]

Gally
Have you measured EGTs and EGR activation to look at the impact of recirculated exhaust gasses on quickly reducing EGTs.

Is there a pattern to the ECU opening the EGRs?

I could be in the market for something like this but am concerned about temp spikes and heat generally in the tdv8 especially when towing.

My tdv8 is currently running great.

Hi, I have done extensive testing on both. From an engine management point of view,

there is no strategy to take advantage of lower EGT's only lower combustion temperatures for NOx purposes. The knock on effect from lower combustion temperature is lower exhaust gas temperatures and of course reduced power, but this only happens at idle until running temperature is reached, part throttle and cruising at around 1800-2200 rpm at all other conditions the EGR's are closed.

On acceleration and wide open throttle the EGR's are closed to get maximum power return from each combustion stroke.

There are now hundreds of TDV6's and TDV'8 with their EGR's disabled and there has been no problems with Exhaust temperatures. Some have towed caravans and camper trailers on trips across the Nullarbor and others up the Gibb River Road with no ill effect.

I did the tests over a 3 year period. (Its been a long time coming lol)

Hope this Helps :D

[Gally]

Do you intend having a single EGR emulator with 3.0 style connector with MAF connection for the 4.4?

Hi Graeme, I haven't attacked the 4.4 yet. Maybe after I have released the 3.0.
As you say It shares the same plug.
I have done some basic tests, monitoring what the EGR temp sensor effects are on the fueling strategy but that's as far as I have got.

[LandyAndy]

Gally
A mate who also has a D4 3.0 sent me this link yesterday.
It seems the poms are doubting your product.
Have a read and let us know your response.
Bare in mind its important for us who are thinking of taking the plunge.
Thanks
Andrew

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - EGR Emulators D3 and D4 (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic142041.html)

[Graeme]

IMO there's nothing in the Disco3 thread of any value.

From closing the EGR valve in my previous TD5 where an improvement in fuel economy was achieved I would also expect an improvement in these engines. More torque at low revs improves fuel economy when the engine is only lightly loaded. The 8% was on a 3.6 TDV8 which would have even more potential for reduced fuel consumption than a 3.0.

EGR valves are closed during DPF regen to ensure maximum exhaust heat gets to the catalytic converter.

2 MAFs on the 3.0 (& 4.4) are not an issue because if the 2nd MAF is in use then the engine would be doing sufficient work to be well past the threshold for having EGR valves closed. Modifying the primary MAF values would be all that is needed.

Driving harder in Oz wont show-up any problems with having EGR valves closed as they would be closed anyway. However driving harder has the potential to show-up inappropriate MAF value manipulation but presumably that manipulation wont occur when the EGR valves are meant to be closed anyway.

[Gally]

Graeme you have hit the nail on the head. I was just in the process of replying.

(EGR valves are closed during DPF regen to ensure maximum exhaust heat gets to the catalytic converter)

They definitely are closed and I will put my finding in a moment

[Gally]

Gally
A mate who also has a D4 3.0 sent me this link yesterday.
It seems the poms are doubting your product.
Have a read and let us know your response.
Bare in mind its important for us who are thinking of taking the plunge.
Thanks
Andrew

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - EGR Emulators D3 and D4 (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic142041.html)


Thanks LandyAndy,

Hey that's not fair is it. Robbie thinks I cant count.:p

As Graeme has pointed out, On the D4 3.0, one Maf measures air to the Primary turbo and the other, air to the secondary turbo.

The Air is blended when the Compressor shut-off and recirculation valve allows it but I found that only the primary Maf reading needed to be altered to achieve a fault free result.

Altering the Maf reading is not detrimental to fueling at all. It happens every time the EGR valves open.

The Engine gets air the Maf's don't know about. That's what the MAP and H2O sensors look after.

Whether you do this internally as a patch or externally as an emulator, is irrelevent. The results are the same.

When the EGR valves are emulated there is a very small window were the Maf reading of the primary turbo is lowered and it is a very small amount. This mimics the effect of the EGR valves. The engine intake is still drawing in the air quantity it needs for a correct burn.


DPF Regen,

I had the benefit of 2 customers D4's with blocked and nearly blocked DPF's which made for a good few days of testing.


I did many tests on both Passive and Active regeneration modes.

Passive didn't use any Engine management changes at all but Active was a different story.

When the differential pressure sensor dictated that DPF needed cleaning the Engine management or the DPF fuel managent module , as Land Rover calls it, raised the combustion and Exhaust temperatures by adding extra fuel in the form of post injections.
This could be seen on the Pico scope measuring the injectors and referencing it against the crank sensor.

The DPF temperature raised to 520 Deg C for approximately 5 minutes. The EGR's were closed the whole time. When I checked the manual it stated "During active regeneration, the EGR operation is disabled -except for overrun conditions - and the closed-loop activation of the turbocharger boost controller is calculated. The air management module controls the air in the intake manifold to a predetermined level of pressure and temperature. This control is required to achieve the correct in-cylinder conditions for stable and robust combustion of the post injected fuel."
Which was exactly what I was seeing. So all good there.

After nearly 5 mins the fuel injections increased in duration and the temperature went up again to 638 Deg C, EGR's still closed, I noticed that the IMT (Inlet manifold tuning valve), was moving when the DPF temperature was at its highest. I realised that this was controlling the amount of air into the engine to maintain the correct regen temperatures. This is why I have always left the butterfly in.
The EGR valves had no effect on DPF regen what so ever except whilst driving in over run where it trys to reduce NOx


With the EGR's disabled the Regen worked in exactly the same way.

Regen temps were altered by the Engine Management moving the IMT valve and changing the duration of the post fuel injections.

Sorry for the long post but i hope this explains things a little better. :D

[Marty110]

Gally
A mate who also has a D4 3.0 sent me this link yesterday.
It seems the poms are doubting your product.
Have a read and let us know your response.
Bare in mind its important for us who are thinking of taking the plunge.
Thanks
Andrew

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - EGR Emulators D3 and D4 (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic142041.html)

Reading the Disco3 post I see someone has claimed that any improvement in fuel economy can only be true if the EGRs were already dodgy. Well if my EGRs were dodgy in operation then I am doubly glad I fitted the emulators rather than have to strip and clean or replace the EGRs, a job I cant do myself so would have to have paid to have done, the emulators being a cheaper and better option IMHO. The main thing for me if my EGRs were dodgy is that the EGR's were fully closing and not staying part way open - so that fitting the emulators results in fully closed EGRs. Mark provided me with info on how to check this and yes they were fully closed and now are permanently so. The bonus being no more dirty air into the inlet. Oh - lots of kms now and car is running faultlessly.

[LandyAndy]

Great post Gally.
Not only do you explain what the system is doing but having test results showing your gear is compatible with the engine.
Thanks
Andrew

[Tinman]

Just ordered a set of emulators today if they work as good as my blanking plates on my old 05 D3 I will be very happy. I found that in the morning the vehicle took longer to get to operating temperature. Didnt notice any difference while getting up to temp as in performance .I did over 60 thou with them fitted my fuel consumption greatly improved also as did the performance cant wait to get the emulators.
Cheers

[Stuart02]

2 MAFs on the 3.0 (& 4.4) are not an issue because if the 2nd MAF is in use then the engine would be doing sufficient work to be well past the threshold for having EGR valves closed. Modifying the primary MAF values would be all that is needed.

The 3.6 TDV8 has two MAFs too though, right?

[Graeme]

Yes, but my understanding is that the MAF signals on these true twin turbo engines don't have to be adjusted, unlike the later 3.0 and 4.4 sequential turbos where more cross-checking of airflow with MAP sensor data occurs. More can go wrong with airflow on the sequential turbo engines due to the use of an inlet isolation valve so more checking is appropriate, as well as more detailed checking that EGR is operating as expected.

[winaje]

Thinking of putting a pair of these on my brand new Territory engine, so that it never gunks up. Am I correct in understanding that the EGR valves are closed fully when the vehicle is turned off, so there is no need for a physical blanking plate in the EGR pipe, assuming that the emulators retain the fully closed position? The input cable to the emulator is disconnected from the valve and plugged into the emulator, so there is no way that the valve can open as it has no power?

[Gally]

Hi That's right, after the clean cycle the valves are closed.

[Marty110]

Thinking of putting a pair of these on my brand new Territory engine, so that it never gunks up. Am I correct in understanding that the EGR valves are closed fully when the vehicle is turned off, so there is no need for a physical blanking plate in the EGR pipe, assuming that the emulators retain the fully closed position? The input cable to the emulator is disconnected from the valve and plugged into the emulator, so there is no way that the valve can open as it has no power?
yes, EGRs closed with engine off. Emulators plug and play with no need to remove butterfly or use blanking plates.

[Gally]

Yes, but my understanding is that the MAF signals on these true twin turbo engines don't have to be adjusted, unlike the later 3.0 and 4.4 sequential turbos where more cross-checking of airflow with MAP sensor data occurs. More can go wrong with airflow on the sequential turbo engines due to the use of an inlet isolation valve so more checking is appropriate, as well as more detailed checking that EGR is operating as expected.

Graeme you know your stuff. The TDV8 is as you say happy with the emulators and doesn't look for those air quantity changes.

The D3 went through a phase of trying different emission control routines in 2007-2008 and then from 2008 onward, reverted back to the early type of setup and even the D4 2.7 runs great on the emulators.

[Graeme]

I had briefly looked at developing an EGR emulator myself but apart from having my hands full with LLAMS and my normal work, the lack of access to appropriate diagnostic equipment meant that it was never going to happen. I started a project to integrate my boom-spray controller's section switches with my tractor's after-market auto-steer system via its canbus, but that's not likely to happen either having not progressed the project in the last 3 years.

[Hammer H]

Hi Andrew I'm very interested in your product for my 3.6 tdv8. I'm happen to be cleaning my intake and egrs at the moment. Egrs are surprisingly clean but the intake was full of goo. To repeat what has been said before the goo looks to be a result of the egr carbon and diesel mixing. The car had been running fine the reason I'm cleaning is I've had the intake of to replace the thermostat housing. I'm sure as can be seen from the pic of sensor and throttle it must be having a negative impact. I'm surprised the egr flow into the manifold is pointed towards the throttle against the intake air flow.

As can be seen the egr protrudes into the intake, with your product do you think there is a problem if I cut the egr pipes to be flush with the manifold so not to affect/restrict airflow?

Also this butterfly valve under the manifold that has been discussed, I'm not sure what it does, is that of any benefit? Can that removed/closed with the emulators.

As I have it all apart noes the time to do it.

Like they say a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.

And can I pick up your product as I'm in Perth.

Cheers Paul

[Hammer H]

Another pic to justify disabling egrs

[LandyAndy]

Paul.
Its Gallys product.
He is at Rovertech in Bently.Send him a pm.
Andrew

[Hammer H]

Paul.
Its Gallys product.
He is at Rovertech in Bently.Send him a pm.
Andrew

Thanks Andrew

[Gally]

Hi Andrew I'm very interested in your product for my 3.6 tdv8. I'm happen to be cleaning my intake and egrs at the moment. Egrs are surprisingly clean but the intake was full of goo. To repeat what has been said before the goo looks to be a result of the egr carbon and diesel mixing. The car had been running fine the reason I'm cleaning is I've had the intake of to replace the thermostat housing. I'm sure as can be seen from the pic of sensor and throttle it must be having a negative impact. I'm surprised the egr flow into the manifold is pointed towards the throttle against the intake air flow.

As can be seen the egr protrudes into the intake, with your product do you think there is a problem if I cut the egr pipes to be flush with the manifold so not to affect/restrict airflow?

Also this butterfly valve under the manifold that has been discussed, I'm not sure what it does, is that of any benefit? Can that removed/closed with the emulators.

As I have it all apart noes the time to do it.

Like they say a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.

And can I pick up your product as I'm in Perth.

Cheers Paul

Hi Paul,
Ive sent you a PM.

Thanks, Mark

[Stuart02]

Mark provided me with info on how to check this and yes they were fully closed and now are permanently so.

Is checking whether the EGRs are closing properly difficult (or secret squirrel), or does it require the emulators to be installed first? Cheers

[Marty110]

Is checking whether the EGRs are closing properly difficult (or secret squirrel), or does it require the emulators to be installed first? Cheers
Its quite simple, here is a quote from what Mark sent to me: "Put your ignition on and put your volt probe into pin 2 (white in the image) and you should see something between 0.7 and 0.9 volts. It will be a very similar voltage on both sides. Put your probe into the back of the pin socket nice and straight as you do not want to short it with the pin next to it. This is an easy way to prove your EGR's are closed" hes talking about testing with a multimeter and closed EGR's testing with 0.7 to 0.9 volts. You test before you disconnect the EGR plug to instal the emulators. Here is a pic of pin 2. Also, if they weren't closing properly you would apparently get an error code logged as when you turn on the ignition the cars ECU checks the EGR voltage and if it is not in the range mentioned it logs an error. Hope that helps.

[Fatso]

Any one had any problems with their emulators , mine have chucked a P0402 code ,no other problems , Gally is looking into it .

[Tinman]

I had problems with mine code P0402 U2023 U0100 U0416 U0401 U0402 U0416 Put the vehicle in limp mode lowered vehicle limited gears available etc had to unplug to get the car back home. Gallie is looking into the problem.

[Gally]

Hi, I finally made it back onto the forum. I have been flat out testing.

There are 3 out there in total that are giving the low flow error. I have been putting the latest set of emulators for the D3 2007-2008 and all D4 3.0 through their paces to make sure they perform perfect.

There is a specific update from Land Rover that covers certain ecu numbers and calibration files mainly 2007-2008.

The Engine ecu wants to see a reduction in airflow through the airflow meter as the engine gets air from the exhaust.

It is hard to detect which cars have this certain calibration file without diagnostic equipment such as JLR SDD.

There are EGR Emulators fitted to many 2007-2008 Discovery 3's and have no issues at all, as not all cars within those years have the ecu that logs the P0402 fault.

The TDV8 3.6 and 4.4 models are not effected by this problem at all and neither are most D4 TDV6's

It seems that Land Rover really pushed hard on the Euro 4 emissions for those 2 years but then changed the software afterwards.

The latest set of emulators will tap into the airflow meter circuit and will show the engine ecu a reduced airflow reading whilst the egr vavles are almost completely open.
This will not effect the running of the vehicle as the engine is still receiving all the air it needs through the Air flow meter instead of the exhaust and perfect running is obtained by the MAP sensor.

The Maf is mainly used to diagnose air flow problems to the turbos.

The engine ecu uses the MAF reading and correlates it against the manifold pressure sensor to determine if there is a boost leak or an issue with the turbo performance.

In the tune maps or calibration file maps there is a manifold pressure map and an airflow meter map so the engine knows what the manifold pressure and airflow meter readings should be at any given speed/torque and egr value.



The later set of emulators are very close to being released. I am just being thorough in the testing phase to ensure they run absolutely perfect.

[Fatso]

Thanks for the update Gally , all beyond me but sure you have a handle on it , also read your comments on the UK disco 3 site good write up ! . Looking forward to the new updated set to arrive . Al .

[Tinman]

Hi Gally, Mine is a late My09 D3 and has the problem so does that mean that the problem stretches over more years like 07 to 09 than first thought. I too thank You for the update. I am changing the water outlet assembly on the weekend so will be cleaning out the electronic throttle body so I will have a clean start when the replacement emulators arrive. Cheers

[LandyAndy]

Gally sent me a PM saying he has answered his UK detractors.For those interested here is the link.
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - EGR Emulators D3 and D4 (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic142041.html)
Andrew

[Fatso]

Gally , I still have the emulators you sent some 7 weeks with the P0402 code connected , will this do any harm while I await the updated emulators to arrive , no other problems have occurred and 2007 TDV6 RRS running as normal with no other fault codes this will keep my throttle valve area that I cleaned out clean . Are we getting any closer to the updated emulators you have been testing being ready . Thanks 4 any info .

[Gally]

Hi, there will be no harm at all with them connected. I have been flat out testing and programming the new ones.

I just cant afford to take any short cuts with the testing.

I am doing more testing over the weekend. I will let you know shortly.

Thanks for your patience.

Ps I replied to your pm

[Fatso]

Hi, there will be no harm at all with them connected. I have been flat out testing and programming the new ones.

I just cant afford to take any short cuts with the testing.

I am doing more testing over the weekend. I will let you know shortly.

Thanks for your patience.

Ps I replied to your pm


Hi Gally, I got the PM thanks for the info and the update as to where you are at , sounds like it is trying to grab an octopus but sure you will get to the bottom of it . Hope the testing gives good results but all work and no play is no fun either . Al .

[boardrider]

hi everyone
i installed my emulators today.car is 2.7 v6d. m/y 08
will let you know how they go
boardrider

[Russrobe]

Does anyone know if the D4 2.7 emulator is ready to go? Want to fit one asap.

Thanks

[LandyAndy]

If you cant reach Gally here,call or call in to Jordan Rovertek in St James.He is part of Kevin Falconbridges team.
Nice people to talk to about your servicing needs too,they are really highly regarded.
Andrew

[Tinman]

Hi Russrobe, I am waiting also I have a D3 that needs the same emulators as the D4 as my D3 measures air flow like the D4 EGR's so Galley tells me that they will be ready very soon as the D3 ones that I originally purchased don't work on my D3. He told me he has sent the boards off to get manufactured and they will be ready possibly in two weeks. Fingers crossed

[boardrider]

hi there,update on my emulators.My car is M/Y 08 2.7 diesel.Done 500klms. Some towing my 1.5 tonne tool trailer,some freeway work,remainder around town.Outcome= all good so far,no issues:D
boardrider

[Fatso]

Does anyone know if the D4 2.7 emulator is ready to go? Want to fit one asap.

Thanks



Google "Auto Code " Which is his website for all info and prices .

[Russrobe]

Sweet getting one fitted when i get the car back from it's transmission woes...

[Graeme]

Has anyone heard from Gally in the last month?

[rar110]

Yes. I bought a set about mid June. I spoke to him on the phone.

[Tombie]

Why are people considering close to ~$500 for emulating EGRs shut when you're only a couple of hundred away from full EGR close and disable+fault reader+drive ability upgrade (tune).

They have a place (where EGR has been blocked and would fault during roadworthy testing) however this doesn't happen in Australia AND completely writing EGR out with coding in the ECU is more effective)

[rar110]

I did ask BAS as I have an IID tool. However, Oz delivered L322 doesn't have a DPF unlike the UK vehicles. BAS didn't want to do a EGR disable on a non DPF L322. Also, the price with a tune was nearly double the cost of emulators.

[Tinman]

I spoke to Gally over three weeks ago when he told me that the new emulators would proberly be a week. They still haven't arrived. I have a set that dont work that I have had since the start of March, and there are others in the same boat as me.

[Graeme]

EGR disable is all I seek for my 4.4 that spends most of its time well below 2000 rpm, although a non-invasive remap to achieve it would be preferred if only it was available and locally too.

[Graeme]

Yes. I bought a set about mid June. I spoke to him on the phone.
My last emails were at the end of June but no response since.

[rar110]

There was a bit of a wait on mine. When I spoke to him he mentioned he had some in a batch that had a fault and was waiting or just got a new batch to replace them.

[Gally]

Has anyone heard from Gally in the last month?

Hi Graeme, I am still alive, there are not enough hours in the day for testing.
I replied to your last email. I will send again and PM just in case.

You can get hold of me any time during the day on 0457 060808

Many thanks

[Graeme]

Thanks for the call Gally. I'll look for an update in a month if I haven't heard from you beforehand.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Hi

After trying to follow the different points of conversation through the thread, I'm still not really clear ( :confused: ) - are there EGR emulators available for the D4 3.0L (mine is MY10)...?

As far as I can tell, they're still in 'testing', but just wanted to confirm...

Thanks.

Rob

[Graeme]

I understood today that the 3.0 version is still getting final touches, in part at least due to some 3.0's being fitted with a DPF.

[Fatso]

Spoke to Gally last week , said still testing and maybe have a result in about 2 weeks , I am waiting on replacements for mine which I purchased in February which show a fault on 2007 RRS 2.7 .

[Gally]

Thank you all for your continued support with the EGR emulators.

For those of you who are still waiting for the updated version, I cannot thank you enough for your patience.

I will be mailing the boards to over the next 10 days.

It's been a roller coaster ride with testing and the numerous unforeseen issues along the way.

To complicate things further, I wanted to develop a single version that covered all variants. This was in order to prevent issues down the track as it is very difficult to be able tell which ecu calibration file you have.

The EGR and DPF, fuel / air strategies of the engine management proved to be a difficult task to emulate correctly.

I have gone through several hardware setups and countless software tweeks and I finally have one that works correctly in all conditions 100% of the time.

Thanks.

Regards,
Mark

[rar110]

Gally
I've had mine fitted for about 2 mths/approx 3000km in the 3.6 tdv8 L322. Everything is running well with the EGRs in retirement. The motor has done about 255,000km.

Do you have a recommendation for a remap with the Emulator setup, or doesn't it matter?

[Gally]

That's good news.
In regards to a tune, there is no specific recommendation.
There will be a benefit with any good tune. Now that the engine is taking clean air in, it can run more efficient and produce more effort at a slightly lower torque point in the map.
I would recommend mentioning to the tuner that your egr's have been deleted if you are going for a really hard tune.

A tune is a great addition and well worth doing. Once tuned you will never want standard back.

[LandyAndy]

Mark.
I called into Rovertech today to say gidday,Kevin told me where to find you.Was that you leaving in a spanner bus as I pulled up outside your shop????
Andrew

[Fatso]

Is there anyone out there waiting for replacement Emulators from Gally besides myself and one other forum member that i know of . According to his update the redesigned ones to replace the ones that create faults like mine were ready last month and will be posted out but i have not received mine yet , just wondering if anyone else have received theirs .

[LandyAndy]

Fatso.
Kevin gave me Marks phone number,yell out if you need it.
Andrew

[winaje]

Can someone PM me Mark's number please, I want to have a quick chat with him...

Thanks

[Fatso]

PM sent .

[Fatso]

Bump , Has anybody yet received there replacement Emulators from Gally yet ? as advised in his previous post in August 21 to this thread he would send out over the next 10 days . I seem to be running into problems in receiving mine for one reason or another , not sure what the problem is as last i spoke to him he said said he was waiting on DHL courier to box up and send them out , that was last week but nothing arrived yet . So not sure if they are ready as stated in his post or not ?.

[dannyvee]

Fatso,
No replacement emulators, but similar problems. I have a 2007 RRS, which occasionally throws a series of faults - no HDC, limited gears, lowered suspension etc - pull over, restart, try again.

I rang Mark a couple of weeks ago - at that stage I don't think the problem was completely resolved; awaiting more testing perhaps.

[LandyAndy]

For those waiting for the issue to be fixed,I will be having a chat with Fatso when he supplies a phone number.
At the moment you guys have been good not launching into name and shame issues etc.
Perhaps the handful of you can band together via PM to Fatso(Allen) and he can take it from here.
I had a chat with Kevin at Rover-Tech today,I believe there is good news.
For the time being please keep behaving as you have.
THANKS

When Gally gathers this up and sorts it he needs you guys who were his test mules,sure they were issues,but when sorted he needs you as happy customers in the end as referees for the product.

Hoping it works out well for all those involved.
Andrew

[Plane Fixer]

Bump
Is there an update on the emulator for the 3.0 as yet. Would really love to get one asap.
Landy Andy, have you had recent contact with Gally?
Cheers, Graeme

[Graeme]

I've left phone messages and emails for the last few weeks without any response trying to find out what's happening with the 4.4 TDV8 version (single EGR valve version of the 3.0 TDV6) that was paid for some time ago. An indication that the project is still proceeding would be greatly appreciated.

[BobD]

Kevin at Rovertech (referred to by Andy above) just put an emulator on mine and removed the EGR water cooling system and everything else to get access to the turbos. It is now throwing up an orange engine light which GAP IID says is EGR open circuit or something like that so I have to take it back. Hopefully they can get it sorted so that the engine light is available for a real problem!


I'll let you know what happens. I can clear the fault but the light comes back after about 4 or 5 starts.

[Babs]

Wow just read this whole thread didn't understand more than half of it, got the gist that the EGR gets closed off.

I was reading with interest up unto the last couple of pages, the lack of communication rings alarm bells for me.

Why can't the EGR be closed off with a GAP tool [emoji780]

[Grentarc]

Wow just read this whole thread didn't understand more than half of it, got the gist that the EGR gets closed off.

I was reading with interest up unto the last couple of pages, the lack of communication rings alarm bells for me.

Why can't the EGR be closed off with a GAP tool [emoji780]
EGR is not an optional system, it is fitted to all diesel variants, so not something can can just be set to "not fitted" like other systems.

[Russrobe]

Wow just read this whole thread didn't understand more than half of it, got the gist that the EGR gets closed off.

I was reading with interest up unto the last couple of pages, the lack of communication rings alarm bells for me.

Why can't the EGR be closed off with a GAP tool [emoji780]
The 2.7 TDV6s could possibly be. Mine currently has a Gap IId egr remap from Bell Auto . Whether or not it works I couldn't tell you... Can't read the open/closed values unfortunately.

They didn't charge me, and correspondence stopped once i said the reading are N/A...

[101RRS]

EU 4 - 2.7 - Well I bought 2 new egrs for $100 each 3 years ago and have them plugged into the wiring loom - not fitted to the exhaust - original egrs still in place on the exhaust and blanked and the system is still working well - not eml and no codes - a cheap alternative to replacing EGRs or getting emulators.

Garry

[isuzurover]

The problem with AdBlue is domestic users of diesel won't want to fill up with fuel AND urea. How many will forget to fill up with the urea? Also, I doubt there will be retrofit kits for AdBlue for our vehicles

Retrofit kits are available.

[rar110]

EU 4 - 2.7 - Well I bought 2 new egrs for $100 each 3 years ago and have them plugged into the wiring loom - not fitted to the exhaust - original egrs still in place on the exhaust and blanked and the system is still working well - not eml and no codes - a cheap alternative to replacing EGRs or getting emulators.

Garry



Good idea. In my case emulators were a lot cheaper than new EGRs.

[Ean Austral]

EU 4 - 2.7 - Well I bought 2 new egrs for $100 each 3 years ago and have them plugged into the wiring loom - not fitted to the exhaust - original egrs still in place on the exhaust and blanked and the system is still working well - not eml and no codes - a cheap alternative to replacing EGRs or getting emulators.

Garry


Gday Garry,


What year is yours , I have been thinking of this but I remember trying to blank my 08 2.7 and had all sorts of random codes.


Also where did you get the EGR's for that cheap ?


Cheers Ean

[Fatso]

Gallys Emulators will only work on EU3 and in some cases early 2007 EU4 models which were fitted with EU3 and or hybrid software with out causing dramas . They work on my early build 2007 EU4 RRS 2.7 but bring up a single P0402 code and no other problems or codes . I also put separate egr,s like garrycol a few yrs back with the the same P0402 code , but decided to try gallys emulators see if they got rid of the P0402 code ,he said they would but they did not as they only mimic the original egr,s only .

Gally needs to update his emulators to work with EU4 from 2007 models onward with a link to the Maff as the ECU looks for an airflow decrease when engine is in EGR and also i feel a patch for the software . When i spoke to him some 5/6wks back he said he would work on this problem and give me a ring and put a post on aulro when he had the problem solved , up till now i have heard Zip .

The only way to get info is to ring as Gally does not seem to answer emails or pm,s , 0457060808 / 08-94676386 .

[101RRS]

Mine is an 07 07MY - if you shop around on the internet you can find cheap EGRs - the Aussie price is ridiculous. Mine were actually LR not knock offs and $100 each plus shipping from a seller in the UK.

Also doing things my way they can be used EGRs, as long as they work as all you want are the electrical signals going back and forth to trick the ECU - just like emulators do.

Remember if you just blank EU4 cars you will get the fault light because the ECU is still receiving fault or incorrect signals from the broken EGR. Having serviceable EGRs connected to the loom the ECU thinks the EGRs are all OK.

[isuzurover]

This company offers aftermarket SCR systems in case anyone is interested.
SCRT? (http://www.hjs.com/retrofit/products/scrt-systems.html)

[Ean Austral]

Mine is an 07 07MY - if you shop around on the internet you can find cheap EGRs - the Aussie price is ridiculous. Mine were actually LR not knock offs and $100 each plus shipping from a seller in the UK.

Also doing things my way they can be used EGRs, as long as they work as all you want are the electrical signals going back and forth to trick the ECU - just like emulators do.

Remember if you just blank EU4 cars you will get the fault light because the ECU is still receiving fault or incorrect signals from the broken EGR. Having serviceable EGRs connected to the loom the ECU thinks the EGRs are all OK.

Just wondering Garry did you remove the butterfly in the inlet manifold ?

Cheers Ean

[Fatso]

Kevin at Rovertech (referred to by Andy above) just put an emulator on mine and removed the EGR water cooling system and everything else to get access to the turbos. It is now throwing up an orange engine light which GAP IID says is EGR open circuit or something like that so I have to take it back. Hopefully they can get it sorted so that the engine light is available for a real problem!


I'll let you know what happens. I can clear the fault but the light comes back after about 4 or 5 starts.

BobD Any update on this yet . ??

[Graeme]

The only way to get info is to ring as Gally does not seem to answer emails or pm,s , 0457060808 / 08-94676386 ....nor phones.

[Fatso]

...nor phones.

Oh , thats not good .

[Graeme]

Hopefully there's a perfectly good reason and that I'll have my emulator before much longer.

[101RRS]

Just wondering Garry did you remove the butterfly in the inlet manifold ?

Cheers Ean

Yes in accordance with BAS recommendations - an easy job.

[BobD]

BobD Any update on this yet . ??



They are fitting new "plugs" tomorrow so I assume that there is a bad connection to the emulator. The error is EGR open circuit.


Hopefully the engine light will not go on after tomorrow. The car runs fine and it is not causing any problems. I just did 700km over the weekend with no issues, other than the engine light being on.

[LRD414]

Also doing things my way they can be used EGRs, as long as they work as all you want are the electrical signals going back and forth to trick the ECU - just like emulators do.

Remember if you just blank EU4 cars you will get the fault light because the ECU is still receiving fault or incorrect signals from the broken EGR. Having serviceable EGRs connected to the loom the ECU thinks the EGRs are all OK.

Garry, is this something that only works for older models?
Not across the detail but think I've read that later models with the higher emissions standard can't be defeated in this way.

Scott

[101RRS]

Hi Scott - no idea - mine is a mid 07 (late MY07 - EU4) and I can only comment on my own experience. I thought that the 2.7s did not go to EU5 - for that the LR went to the low power 3.0 that replaced the 2.7 as well as the high power 3.0.

Cheers

Garry

[Fatso]

Managed to get in touch with Galy ( Mark ) today , said he was still working on the upgrade for his emulators .
Also let him know that there were some people having problems getting through to him and let him know that there posts on the Aulro site for him to look at, he said he will get onto the site and check it out .
Not sure where to go from here as my emulators are only throwing a P0402 code and causing no other problems or faults and no EML light after 10 months fitted , i got the same result when i fitted a set of egrs as emultors a couple of yrs back , so i am not all that worried at the moment and will probably just leave them on .
My RRS is a 2007 January built 2.7 , so probably has not got a full Euro 4 ECU software , maybe . Allen .

[vbrab]

My D3 has a Territory 2014 2.7 in it and that was EU4 specs, so it is likely that they didn't go to EU5 on the 2.7. (At least not till after 2014 anyway.)
Best part of getting EGR blanking and emulators was about 20% drop in running temperature when driving about town (Temp needle now sits below halfway, unless I get on open road).
Those EGR's much add a considerable increase to coolant temperature, so getting rid of them has been a real positive.
Figure that has to be good for trans temp as well.
Would recommend EGR blanking if for no other reason than cooling improvement.

[shanegtr]

No noticble difference to cooling in my 05 D3 with the EGR blanked. Perhaps your differnece is in the new engine?

[Tombie]

No noticble difference to cooling in my 05 D3 with the EGR blanked. Perhaps your differnece is in the new engine?



Using gauge or IID tool / Scangauge?

The dash is normalised.

[winaje]

...so it is likely that they didn't go to EU5 on the 2.7. (At least not till after 2014 anyway.)...

2015 is still EU4

[shanegtr]

Using gauge or IID tool / Scangauge?

The dash is normalised.
IID tool - still runs up around 100deg on the highway

[101RRS]

I cannot see how simply blanking the EGRs will have any impact on cooling - the EGRs are still exposed to the exhaust and the coolant still runs through them - blanking has no impact on this.

The observed changes in coolant temp will have more to do with replacing a hi km LR engine with a low km Territory engine not the blanking process.

[Narangga]

IID tool - still runs up around 100deg on the highway

My Nanocom was showing the same towing the camper trailer at 110. Sans EGR.

[Tombie]

Blanking EGR should mildly increase temperatures at low throttle openings...
Less air, less bang, less heat..

At higher throttle and speeds it could add heat if stuck open as more fuel from more throttle is applied to make the power needed to maintain higher speeds.

Blanking them will remove this issue..

[dalil]

I have MY13 TDV6
About four weeks ago after I clean throttle body I blank left EGR valve pipe with shim- 50% less . Car runs fine, no messages or faults. But i am not sure if ECU will adjust fuel mix, or temperature potential problems.
Dali

[Tombie]

Part blanking is not more effective than leaving it open.. gasses and contamination will still pass through.

[dalil]

What if i close one or both sides 100% without remapping ECU.
Dali

[Grentarc]

What if i close one or both sides 100% without remapping ECU.
Dali
You will get a fault

[vbrab]

As I understood the workshop, they blanked the EGR's at manifold and removed them, so no coolant running through them as they are "dissapeared".
(not sure what they did with the coolant hoses)
They fitted emulators to keep the ECU happy, and to be sure the vehicle starts/runs.
Seems a couple of others who have had same engine change with EGR removal/blank were surprised at drop in temperature also.
At first thought they might have left the Territory sensor in, but they used the LR sensor off old motor.
Temp gauge reads in usual position when on open road, just reads much cooler when in slow traffic.

[Graeme]

Temp gauge reads in usual position when on open road, just reads much cooler when in slow traffic.The cooling system is designed to ensure a minimum operating temperature. If it's not maintaining that temperature then I would suspect either a faulty thermostat or the hoses have not been refitted correctly.

[Fatso]

Any one have any further update or progress/info on gallys emulators .

[BobD]

I have my EGR's removed altogether and the emulator installed. After initial errors which didn't affect the performance at all he managed to fix it and there are now no errors. This was about October last year. He said there were broken wires but I'm not sure because there were no errors until the EGR's were removed.

[Graeme]

Any one have any further update or progress/info on gallys emulators .Nope, and I reckon that I can kiss good-bye to my payment as I've had no response from various attempts to contact Gally - I'm appropriately unimpressed.

[Fatso]

Nope, and I reckon that I can kiss good-bye to my payment as I've had no response from various attempts to contact Gally - I'm appropriately unimpressed.

Feel for you mate ! , i suppose i am not that bad off then as my set work and only bring up a P0402 which does not cause any any problems , i got this code when i just fitted a separate set of egr,s to act as emulators early on , at least i know i can just put the old egr,s back on if the emulators die etc .

Think i will just call it quit,s as i dont think these emulators do any more than mimic the voltage of the Egr,s on early Euro 3 Models , and i am sure a link to the Maff is req to sort the airflow code P0402 , i feel they are a waste of time for Euro 4 models . Hope you can get it sorted somehow . Al

[winaje]

I was initially going to go with these emulators, but on advice from a couple of members here (you know who you are) I decided to fork over the extra and go IIDBT, EGR blanking and flash, then got the ECU flash as well. Money well spent in my opinion, and I have a fantastic code reader and ECU changer thingy too.

[rar110]

Nope, and I reckon that I can kiss good-bye to my payment as I've had no response from various attempts to contact Gally - I'm appropriately unimpressed.



I hope it works out Graeme. He seemed a decent bloke when I spoke to him. I've been very happy with the emulators on my tdv8.

[Tinman]

Yeah I haven't had any contact with him also it has nilly been 1 year since I purchased them. They never worked period. Many conservations with Gully always assuring me that he had just about got them working. I guess I am in the same boat as everyone else. Will have to just put it down to a bad debt owing.
Cheers

[Tombie]

Someone should wander into JRT and see if he's still hiding in the corner...

[LandyAndy]

Someone should wander into JRT and see if he's still hiding in the corner...

Ive done that;););););););)
Kevin kicked him out,he now has is own shop just down the road.
I don't believe Gally actually worked for JRT,more like he worked out of their shop,also doing JRT electronics jobs.
Andrew

[Tombie]

Wonder what's the story then...

[Gally]

????? I am still here. I can be contacted with the phone numbers on my site including my mobile: 0457060808.

Between Diagnostics and Egr Emulators, the amount of stuff I had setup was getting a bit out of hand and Kevin needed the space for another ramp, so I moved across the road into 30 Charles St

Graeme I sent you a reply email asking if you would want the egr deleted via ecu. I would throw in a free tune , considering the later emulators are taking so long. or a straightforward refund

I haven't been able to get on here anywhere near as much as I would like but anyone can reach me on 0457060808

Things have taken way too long so I thought I was up to date with PM's asking if everyone with the Euro 4 faults would like it done via ecu with a free tune or a refund.

I think rumors are getting a bit out of control considering anyone can reach me on

08 94676386 and 0457060808

[Gally]

The Euro 4 Emulators have fought me the whole way and it hasn't been the best way to conduct business.
The amount of hours I have given them is crazy. It was one of those unforeseen problems.
Of all the 2007 and 2008 cars I tested them on and I never had one with an error code. Go figure?
Anyone I have missed with the PM's please just send me a text or drop me a line and I will sort it out
Thanks, Mark

[Gally]

Nope, and I reckon that I can kiss good-bye to my payment as I've had no response from various attempts to contact Gally - I'm appropriately unimpressed.

Hi Graeme, I replied to your email with the offer of an ecu update for the egr delete and a tune. I am really sorry if you have missed it or it hasn't got through but it really shouldn't be any harder than calling me and asking "Mark can I have a refund please" to which i would reply "yes of course you can"
or PM me your number and I will call you for card details to process a refund.

I don't want anyone to be outstanding for an update or a refund.
as I mentioned in another post I have not been able to get on the computer much with out of control work hours but anyone can reach me on 0457060808

Thanks, Mark

[Graeme]

Mark, I don't recall receiving any response to the email nor to a message left on your phone after several calls over several days timed-out some time late last year.

I suspect that there's little demand for a 4.4 version of your emulator and as your time is already over-allocated I may as well abandon that solution. As I cannot do without my vehicle for the time to get the ecu to you for a s/w solution and wouldn't trust it to a courier anyway, I will take-up your refund offer. I'll PM my a/c details.

[Gally]

Ok no problem. I will process the refund
Thanks

[Graeme]

Thanks Gally for the refund that turned-up today.

I acknowledge that you weren't aware, for whatever reason, that I had been trying to contact you. I also acknowledge that I had volunteered to wait 3 months for you to research a version for my 4.4 after you became aware that the 4.4 does not have the same system as the 3.6.

For the record, my diary shows that I left a message on your web-site's mail system on 20/10, left a message on your web-site's fixed phone number on 28/10 and left a message on your mobile on 14/11.

[dannyvee]

...offer of an ecu update for the egr delete and a tune. .....

Has anybody with EU4 problems taken Gally up on the offer of an egr delete and/or tune? Any costs involved? Results?


....I would throw in a free tune , considering the later emulators are taking so long. or a straightforward refund....

Depending on others experiences, I may well put my hand up for a *free* tune or refund.

Thanks,

[yeeha]

Hi Everyone, new kid on the block but been watching this thread over the past while. [smilebigeye]
Could anyone please tell me whether the teething problems with these emulators been sorted out? I have a 08' RRS which could do with a set if they do what they say they will.
Cheers

[rar110]

I have an 08 RRV tdv8. I'm still very happy with the emulators.

[dannyvee]

Not for me. 07 RRS EU4. I've given up on getting them fixed.

Cheers,

[rar110]

Not for me. 07 RRS EU4. I've given up on getting them fixed.

Cheers,

Sorry to hear that. Mine have worked-no issue. The 3.6 runs quieter without the exhaust induction.

Also give the MAPs and MAFs a clean. This also helps it run better ie less black smoke. Very cheap maintenance task.

[dannyvee]

Not for me. 07 RRS EU4. I've given up on getting them fixed.



Its been a while, but to be fair I must advise that my 2007 is now running without EGR errors. Mark has reprogrammed one of his maps into the old girl, which includes an EGR delete. The emulators are still connected to keep the ecu happy, supplied with a baseline signal.

After running for a couple of weeks, no more errors. As a side benefit, seems to be approx. 10% better on fuel as well.

What a relief!

Cheers,