A soldier fell down a hole,and.......

[bob10]

A Senior NCO went by and the Soldier with PTSD called out for help. The Senior NCO yelled at, told him to suck it up dig deep & drive on, then threw him a shovel. But the Soldier with PTSD could not suck it up and drive on so he dug the hole deeper.



A Senior Officer went by and the Soldier with PTSD called out for help. The Senior Officer told him to use the tools your Senior NCO has given you then threw him a bucket. But the Soldier with PTSD was using the tools his Senior NCO gave him so he dug the hole deeper and filled the bucket.



A psychiatrist walked by. The Soldier with PTSD said, ?Help! I can't get out!? The psychiatrist gave him some drugs and said, ?Take this. It will relieve the pain.? The Soldier with PTSD said thanks, but when the pills ran out, he was still in the hole.



A well-known psychologist rode by and heard the Soldier with PTSD cries for help. He stopped and asked, ? How did you get there? Were you born there? Did your parents put you there? Tell me about yourself, it will alleviate your sense of loneliness.? So the Soldier with PTSD talked with him for an hour, then the psychologist had to leave, but he said he'd be back next week. The Soldier with PTSD thanked him, but he was still in the hole.



A priest came by. The Soldier with PTSD called for help. The priest gave him a Bible and said, ?I'll say a prayer for you.? He got down on his knees and prayed for the Soldier with PTSD, then he left. The Soldier with PTSD was very grateful, he read the Bible, but he was still stuck in the hole.



A recovering Soldier with PTSD happened to be passing by. The Soldier with PTSD cried out, ?Hey, help me. I'm stuck in this hole!? Right away the recovering Soldier with PTSD jumped down in the hole with him. The Soldier with PTSD said, ?What are you doing? Now we're both stuck here!!? But the recovering Soldier with PTSD said, ?Calm down. It's okay. I've been here before. I know how to get out.?

[mekon76]

Weighted blanket therapy is turning out to be something quite interesting.

The reliving the most traumatic event through VR hasn't proved so good.

Old tried psych and CBT therapies can be beneficial. Pharma masks issues.
Finding others that are going through it and want to talk, gallows humour goes a fair way.

It will never matter how many times someone tells you, "You did what you had to do and you are on the side of good and right." I wish there was a way to fix PTSD, especially for those that have served and serving. There are also many people who suffer PTSD due to other causes of trauma, usually the result of being a victim of crime or abuse.

Maybe one day we'll get there.

[bob10]

Weighted blanket therapy is turning out to be something quite interesting.

The reliving the most traumatic event through VR hasn't proved so good.

Old tried psych and CBT therapies can be beneficial. Pharma masks issues.
Finding others that are going through it and want to talk, gallows humour goes a fair way.

It will never matter how many times someone tells you, "You did what you had to do and you are on the side of good and right." I wish there was a way to fix PTSD, especially for those that have served and serving. There are also many people who suffer PTSD due to other causes of trauma, usually the result of being a victim of crime or abuse.

Maybe one day we'll get there.

Only if we stick together. An unfortunate side to this is only those who have been there really understand. This has the effect that, in the case of the military, those suffering find it difficult to relate to their civilian counterparts, when they transition to civilian life. The sad part is, it is usually the families who suffer. The only way we will beat the problem is not to go to War, but that is impossible in this day and age. There are some excellent programs , run by government, to help give people the means to cope when it all gets too much. I don't think the problem ever goes away, but coping mechanisms can help, except if some one keeps pushing the wrong buttons. I'll leave you with the Vietnam Veterans motto;

" Honour the dead, but fight like hell for the living . "

[stealth]

Interesting you mention 'gallows humour'.

That is virtually legislated out of existence in the workplace these days. That and all the PC bull**** rammed down people's throats pandering to every ****ant minority section of the community I think goes along way towards inhibiting people's ability to cope with the real **** that goes on in the real world.

[bob10]

Interesting you mention 'gallows humour'.

That is virtually legislated out of existence in the workplace these days. That and all the PC bull**** rammed down people's throats pandering to every ****ant minority section of the community I think goes along way towards inhibiting people's ability to cope with the real **** that goes on in the real world.

Do you need to talk?

[Blknight.aus]

if we want to go by the count using just my experience.

The drugs don't work, they mask the symptom, while the person is on them there is no symptom so therefore there is nothing to treat the person feels fine, then you take them off the drugs and they fall right back in the hole and often falling back into is worse for them. Thats cost me 3 friends. I could have done without all the phone calls from friends and family wanting after being the last person the person spoke to wanting to know how they sounded to me. I could quite happily go the rest of my life without ever hearing the phrase "but he was doing so well while he was on the antidepressants" ever again. Want to know the best way to rip someones heart out through their ass? When you've just learnt you're friend has recently been pulled off antidepressants and has offed himself, ask how he did it because explaining that "no he sounded great, we talked through getting the car he was working to start and run smoothly, he was really pleased when he finally got the idle stable" is a pretty poor condolence when he gassed himself with that car. Its also a really good way to get yourself alienated from a sub group of your friends.

dont offer support you cant or wont deliver, Thats the same as giving a person in a hole your hand helping them half way out and then letting them fall in the mud at the bottom, I can guarantee you the next person who comes along to try and help them out of the hole are going to be a lot less likely to have that hand accepted. And well done, now instead of at least being on their feet, up to their knees in the mire at the bottom of their hole, they're stuck flat on their backs in that mess, in the bottom of the hole. Those clouds on the horizon he cant see, coming this way? dumping rain? the run off from that is going to go where?

IF you offer support and you attempt but fail to deliver, It doesnt matter why it failed, they wont care. If you offer its your responsibility to deliver. telling them you delivered on something when it hasn't been delivered successfully looks exactly the same as offering to deliver and then not even making the effort. It just feels worse because now it looks as though the reason why you couldn't do what you promised is their fault.

If theres a history. look at it. look at all of it don't discount the tiniest piece dont censure, censor or manipulate. if the info doesnt look complete, unadultered or congruent it most likely isn't dont talk about the person about it talk to the person about it. If you miss one little bit because of miscommunication, misrepresentation, misunderstanding, misfiling or not being able to see it through the eyes of the person you might just miss the whole context, you might just be looking at a symptom and calling that a problem. If you're working on a symptom you're not actually fixing the problem you're fixing a symptom, Let me know how your resolution to a problem holds up long term when all you worked on is the symptom.

a detail that seems so small to you might just be whats stopping what you're trying to do from working. Doesnt matter what it is, if something occurred in a room with beige paint and brown leather seats it might just be that you're trying to treat them in a room with beige paint and brown leather seats but you didnt think of it and they dont want to mention it because it seems silly and thats whats baulking them. It could be something big and blinding you dont know about, advocating turning to god and the church probably isnt a great idea if it turns out that root cause is the person was assulted by a priest in a church.


Listen to them, doesnt matter what all the paperwork, all the history says, what spin is on that or anything else, the facts in play, what you get to work with are the ones they tell you about, thats going to tell you what the problem is, and as you fix one bit its going to change, you deal with that as the problem changes you adapt the solution if they tell you somethings not working you need to try something else probably best to listen, if they suggest something and its not unreasonable or actually un-achievable work up to it, include it. You absolutely can not say "no that wont work" if you havent actually tried it on if you try it and it doesnt work and they want to have another go do it again, but work with them to make it work as best you can. Then and only then can you tell them "no, that doesnt work" IF it works, by only the tiniest amount, do it again, work out how to make it better, I dont know of anyone who ever completed a thousand mile journey without taking the first step.

you need them to trust you none of anything you are going to try is going to work without trust. they're possibly not going to want to trust you, you earn it and, if, you earn it you protect it because that trust is just like virginity, once you screw it its gone and you wont get it back.

[bob10]

if we want to go by the count using just my experience.

The drugs don't work, they mask the symptom, while the person is on them there is no symptom so therefore there is nothing to treat the person feels fine, then you take them off the drugs and they fall right back in the hole and often falling back into is worse for them. Thats cost me 3 friends. I could have done without all the phone calls from friends and family wanting after being the last person the person spoke to wanting to know how they sounded to me. I could quite happily go the rest of my life without ever hearing the phrase "but he was doing so well while he was on the antidepressants" ever again. Want to know the best way to rip someones heart out through their ass? When you've just learnt you're friend has recently been pulled off antidepressants and has offed himself, ask how he did it because explaining that "no he sounded great, we talked through getting the car he was working to start and run smoothly, he was really pleased when he finally got the idle stable" is a pretty poor condolence when he gassed himself with that car. Its also a really good way to get yourself alienated from a sub group of your friends.

dont offer support you cant or wont deliver, Thats the same as giving a person in a hole your hand helping them half way out and then letting them fall in the mud at the bottom, I can guarantee you the next person who comes along to try and help them out of the hole are going to be a lot less likely to have that hand accepted. And well done, now instead of at least being on their feet, up to their knees in the mire at the bottom of their hole, they're stuck flat on their backs in that mess, in the bottom of the hole. Those clouds on the horizon he cant see, coming this way? dumping rain? the run off from that is going to go where?

IF you offer support and you attempt but fail to deliver, It doesnt matter why it failed, they wont care. If you offer its your responsibility to deliver. telling them you delivered on something when it hasn't been delivered successfully looks exactly the same as offering to deliver and then not even making the effort. It just feels worse because now it looks as though the reason why you couldn't do what you promised is their fault.

If theres a history. look at it. look at all of it don't discount the tiniest piece dont censure, censor or manipulate. if the info doesnt look complete, unadultered or congruent it most likely isn't dont talk about the person about it talk to the person about it. If you miss one little bit because of miscommunication, misrepresentation, misunderstanding, misfiling or not being able to see it through the eyes of the person you might just miss the whole context, you might just be looking at a symptom and calling that a problem. If you're working on a symptom you're not actually fixing the problem you're fixing a symptom, Let me know how your resolution to a problem holds up long term when all you worked on is the symptom.

a detail that seems so small to you might just be whats stopping what you're trying to do from working. Doesnt matter what it is, if something occurred in a room with beige paint and brown leather seats it might just be that you're trying to treat them in a room with beige paint and brown leather seats but you didnt think of it and they dont want to mention it because it seems silly and thats whats baulking them. It could be something big and blinding you dont know about, advocating turning to god and the church probably isnt a great idea if it turns out that root cause is the person was assulted by a priest in a church.


Listen to them, doesnt matter what all the paperwork, all the history says, what spin is on that or anything else, the facts in play, what you get to work with are the ones they tell you about, thats going to tell you what the problem is, and as you fix one bit its going to change, you deal with that as the problem changes you adapt the solution if they tell you somethings not working you need to try something else probably best to listen, if they suggest something and its not unreasonable or actually un-achievable work up to it, include it. You absolutely can not say "no that wont work" if you havent actually tried it on if you try it and it doesnt work and they want to have another go do it again, but work with them to make it work as best you can. Then and only then can you tell them "no, that doesnt work" IF it works, by only the tiniest amount, do it again, work out how to make it better, I dont know of anyone who ever completed a thousand mile journey without taking the first step.

you need them to trust you none of anything you are going to try is going to work without trust. they're possibly not going to want to trust you, you earn it and, if, you earn it you protect it because that trust is just like virginity, once you screw it its gone and you wont get it back.

Glad you got that off your chest. There was a time I would not sit in a room, without being in a place where I could see all entry points. Where I could not sit talking to a civilian without working out the best way to smack them with my elbow , where I put my family through hell, aggressive, and angry.

Thankfully, I discovered thru programs provided by the DVA, that that didn't have to be my life. But, it was up to me. Now, I'm not the greatest fan of DVA, for various reasons, but they got me sorted. Sort of. As I said, the onus is on me. No one else.

[Blknight.aus]

Glad you got that off your chest.

Not my chest I'm worried about....

personally even if they weren't my mates Id prefer that their families have their dads and mum back.

probably some comments that's been around for a while sounds like fix the problem not the symptom or an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure maybe even quality over quantity or make sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.


I'll just summate my previous post.

IF you're claiming to be helping make sure you are, in acutal fact, helping and not making it worse.

[bob10]

Not my chest I'm worried about....

personally even if they weren't my mates Id prefer that their families have their dads and mum back.

probably some comments that's been around for a while sounds like fix the problem not the symptom or an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure maybe even quality over quantity or make sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.


I'll just summate my previous post.

IF you're claiming to be helping make sure you are, in acutal fact, helping and not making it worse.

Dave, all you or I can do, is point them in the right direction. To the people who can help. Some times you have to clear the forest, to see the tree.