Why we should buy Australian

[Mick_Marsh]

Industrial Engineers and Springmakers to close Adelaide factory as cheap imports force losses - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-17/industrial-engineers-and-springmakers-closure-job-losses/7177508)

[Eevo]

closed because they couldn't compete.
NEXT!

[Carzee]

Change the subject, its too depressing, there's too many people cheaper per hour than us.

Food Porn – Bacon Explosion | Joshua Palmer (http://joshua-palmer.com/food-porn-bacon-explosion/)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Its all very sad that we don't manufacture so much here anymore.

At least I'm doing my little bit. In my collection I have: An Australian made Perentie (with an Australian made winch)
An Australian made SIII FFR (with an Australian made engine and winch)
An Australian made Haulmark trailer.
An Australian made SIIA gunbuggy
two Austrailan made No.5 trailers
An Australian made 1/2 ton workshop trailer.
An Australian made Mk3 International truck.
An Australian made Horndraulic dog trailer (for the Mk3)
An Australian made S1 80" (with Australian made reproduction springs and body panels)but its not doing much for currently unemployed manufacturing workers. :BigCry:

(We won't talk about the Disco 4 or the RRc)

[Eevo]

At least I'm doing my little bit. In my collection I have:

are any of those made in the last 20 years?
im not criticising, just curious.

[Rextheute]

It's not all bad , I work for a company that manufactures in Australia ,using Australia made supplies , all made to order , our order book is at least 3 months out from delivery .
It's a discretionary spending product , no one really needs one , they want one .

Oh and employing over 60 people .

But , yes there is stiff competition - gotta stay on top of the game .

[Mick_Marsh]

It's not all bad , I work for a company that manufactures in Australia ,using Australia made supplies , all made to order , our order book is at least 3 months out from delivery .
It's a discretionary spending product , no one really needs one , they want one .

Oh and employing over 60 people .

But , yes there is stiff competition - gotta stay on top of the game .
Got a job for me?
I might be looking for one soon.

[p38arover]

Seriously, I don't know how, as a country, we can survive. We are going to end up relying on resources and tourism for foreign income.

[loanrangie]

Seriously, I don't know how, as a country, we can survive. We are going to end up relying on resources and tourism for foreign income.

Yep, and all this free trade bull**** is just the kick in the guts for whats left of our manufacturing.

[ATH]

If all our various levels of government had bought Oz built vehicles maybe we'd still have an industry needing very little in the way of subsidies.
When it's gone in the not too distant future I can see an almighty rush by the massive hordes of taxpayer paid leeches rushing to get their order in for a Merc, BMW, Audi etc..
Whatever they get will of course reflect their perceived image of their own importance to society.
It started not long ago in WA when the mayor of Stirling OK'd the purchase of 2 Mercs ("It's OK, they're only the size of a Camry" he said) for him and his mate the CEO.
Multiply that by the many thousands of local councils, State and Fed. departments full of seat polishers and you'll see how bad it will be.
Roll on our brave new world when they'll all be justly rewarded for all the hard work they put in Monday to Friday.:D
AlanH.

[frantic]

closed because they couldn't compete.
NEXT!

No it's not being unable to compete, it's being undercut.
Being from S.A you should understand given what's happening to the steel industry.
Basically China dumping products below cost to buy the market and bankrupt any competition. Once all local companies are gone they are free to charge what they want.

[Mick_Marsh]

No it's not being unable to compete, it's being undercut.
Being from S.A you should understand given what's happening to the steel industry.
Basically China dumping poor quality products below cost to buy the market and bankrupt any competition. Once all local companies are gone they are free to charge what they want.
Changed it slightly.

[weeds]

Australia is buggered....I don't think we can recover.

Look at the number of mines closing down......

We are too regulated, overpaid, way too developed, lazy, want more, give little.....I cannot see how it can be sustained.

[Carzee]

The PM is in a fleet BMW limo nowadays. The Army is into 6x6 Mercedes Benz. The subs they want are from overseas. Next we'll be importing roads and bridges.

[drivesafe]

Queensland has one of the best railway equipment manufacturers in the country.

Walkers, in Maryborough.

And QR has just ordered 47 six car electric sets, from India:twisted:

[cuppabillytea]

We are about to start manufacturing on a small scale. We look like doing it in Australia because we can't get the level of quality we need in China.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yep, and all this free trade bull**** is just the kick in the guts for whats left of our manufacturing.Free trade is a myth.
It ill never be free trade until workers in source countries have the same conditions and social security as workers here have and I'm not advocating we have a race for the bottom where Australian workers get the same pay and conditions as workers in the lowest paid countries get.

[cuppabillytea]

Oh by the way, incase you didn't know foreign workers are doing all of our coastal freight now. We no longer have an Australian Merchant Navy to speak of. One Company has even tried to extend this into a Sydney Harbour operation.
It isn't just our jobs that are threatened It's our sovereignty as a Nation.
When you say we just have to be more competitive you put our collective foot a little closer to the starting line for the race to the bottom.

[MrLandy]

Our 'sovereignty as a nation' has only existed for 100 years or so. It is a figment of the majority's imagination, a contrivance overlaid on hundreds of stolen nations right across the continent.

Land Rovers aren't Australian made.

It's a quaint idea that the world respects borders. Refugees welcome I say.

Humanity before lifestyle.

[DiscoMick]

We've certainly gone significantly backwards in recent years on Australian manufacturing. I could get political about that, but I won't, as that belongs in the Current Affairs section.

[ramblingboy42]

there a dormant thread there about Australian manufacturing Mick, fire it up....

[ramblingboy42]

closed because they couldn't compete.
NEXT!

EEvo , it's responses like yours that open up this whole fiasco and it bleeds into the very area close to your heart at the moment, people losing jobs , no money, wanting to purchase a home.....it's all linked. Thanks.

[Eevo]

i suspect your fishing but i'll bite
if they could compete, they would still be in business.
if they sold lots of units, they would still be in business.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Our 'sovereignty as a nation' has only existed for 100 years or so. It is a figment of the majority's imagination, a contrivance overlaid on hundreds of stolen nations right across the continent.

Land Rovers aren't Australian made. <Until the 1990s they were, even if some components were imported.>

It's a quaint idea that the world respects borders. Refugees welcome I say.

Humanity before lifestyle.A bit of a contradiction there.

What do the 1st peoples of this continent say about more invaders coming onto their sacred lands?

[Homestar]

Just a reminder to keep politics out of this please under all circumstances. Just because you don't name a political party, doesn't mean you can bag them out.

[drivesafe]

It is getting off the subject but as far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to come to Australia, they must be able to offer this country something.

These refugees that are coming here now are not doing a thing to better this or any other country and for them, the door should be closed, locked and the key thrown away.

I, like many Australians, bust my buns, pay loads of tax and get no assistance or incentive from the government, yet these freeloaders come here, don't work, yet they live like royalty thanks to the taxes hard working Australians pay.

Now back on subject.

As Australians, we can compete, even with a not so level playing field.

The trick is to do what ever we are doing, better than anyone else. Chinese or otherwise.

The RV industry is a perfect example.

Per capita, we have the largest RV industry in the world and by a long distance over any other country.

We could and should be exploiting this home town advantage far better than we are, because there are to many camper trailers and caravans coming in, mostly from China.

Many of the Australian made products are good but they need to be better, so as to make the imported competition look the substandard products that they are.

This is how we can compete and win, where the playing field is not in our favour!

[Mick_Marsh]

As Australians, we can compete, even with a not so level playing field.

The trick is to do what ever we are doing, better than anyone else. Chinese or otherwise.

The RV industry is a perfect example.

Per capita, we have the largest RV industry in the world and by a long distance over any other country.

We could and should be exploiting this home town advantage far better than we are, because there are to many camper trailers and caravans coming in, mostly from China.

Many of the Australian made products are good but they need to be better, so as to make the imported competition look the substandard products that they are.

This is how we can compete and win, where the playing field is not in our favour!
Did you read the linked article?

[cuppabillytea]

Our 'sovereignty as a nation' has only existed for 100 years or so. It is a figment of the majority's imagination, a contrivance overlaid on hundreds of stolen nations right across the continent.

Land Rovers aren't Australian made.

It's a quaint idea that the world respects borders. Refugees welcome I say.

Humanity before lifestyle.

So you are happy to let the rest of the Countries in the world (who do care about their Sovereignty) determine what our laws, culture and living conditions are.

[Eevo]

Many of the Australian made products are good but they need to be better, so as to make the imported competition look the substandard products that they are.


most people care about value.
i define value as a mixture between price and quality.
australia generally makes high quality product, for a high price
china makes goods of varying quality, for a low price.


low price will just about always beat high price.

[Tank]

Just a reminder to keep politics out of this please under all circumstances. Just because you don't name a political party, doesn't mean you can bag them out.
OH!!! and of course I am the only one that has done that in this post, why weren't the others deleted as well. Frank.

[ramblingboy42]

i suspect your fishing but i'll bite
if they could compete, they would still be in business.
if they sold lots of units, they would still be in business.

nope, not fishing.

do you expect Australian manufacturers to compete with cheap foreign import , because that's what's killing Australian manufacturing.

while there is always a cheap option, just about every fair dinkum aussie will save the dollars and go the cheap option, which worsens the situation.

if YOU and all your mates buy lots of local units the local guys will stay in business , but you don't!

[Homestar]

OH!!! and of course I am the only one that has done that in this post, why weren't the others deleted as well. Frank.

Stop feeling like you're being singled out - your post was reported and acted upon, the others haven't. Anyway, the others don't directly reference a political party and bag that party out like yours did.

If you think others are over the line, then report them and the mods will look at them.

I've just reread the thread and nothing stands out - yours did.

[Eevo]

nope, not fishing.

do you expect Australian manufacturers to compete with cheap foreign import , because that's what's killing Australian manufacturing.

while there is always a cheap option, just about every fair dinkum aussie will save the dollars and go the cheap option, which worsens the situation.

if YOU and all your mates buy lots of local units the local guys will stay in business , but you don't!

why would i buy the more expensive unit when i can buy the cheaper unit?
i have an idea:
why not ban all imports and let the aust manufacturers charge whatever they want.

[Ean Austral]

Not sure what people expect , our customer service is woeful , we are expensive and we want everything for nothing.


We blame everyone else including the government but the reality is we have become a lazy , complacent nation of workers , and its going to get worse because the next generation has an even worse work ethic.


I have been involved in the food industry for over 30 years and people wont pay extra for Australian goods , its been that way for ages.


Dick smith tried and got little support , everyone shops on line because its cheaper, then whinge because the government wants to charge GST on the goods.


In the last week I have contact 2 businesses in Australia to buy parts , 6 days and no reply , even tho I rang and was told they would call back, So close to $ 4000 in parts has been purchased from oversea's. I did manage to buy parts for my D3 locally so there are some that want local business


It's easy to get on our high horse and blame others but we need to lift our game and realise we now compete with the rest of the world because everyone now has internet access. We need to stop living on our past reputation and get with the times.


Cheers Ean

[Tank]

Stop feeling like you're being singled out - your post was reported and acted upon, the others haven't. Anyway, the others don't directly reference a political party and bag that party out like yours did.

If you think others are over the line, then report them and the mods will look at them.

I've just reread the thread and nothing stands out - yours did.
I wouldn't lower myself to their level, I never named anyone or anything and if you think so you are biased, they can't handle the truth, Frank.

[MrLandy]

i have an idea:
why not ban all imports and let the aust manufacturers charge whatever they want.

Great idea Eevo, ban the import of Land Rovers. We live in the world, not some sheltered workshop. The market waits for no greedy delusional continent with only 24million population.

[cuppabillytea]

Great idea Eevo, ban the import of Land Rovers. We live in the world, not some sheltered workshop. The market waits for no greedy delusional continent with only 24million population.

Yeh. So lets all pull our kids out of school, grab four sheets of tin and go and camp by an open sewer. Then we can go and work for what our masters think we're worth and bing the kid along to help out. Great idea.

[MrLandy]

Yeh. So lets all pull our kids out of school, grab four sheets of tin and go and camp by an open sewer. Then we can go and work for what our masters think we're worth and bing the kid along to help out. Great idea.

Would you buy a Land Rover if it was built in a third world country? A coffee bean grown there? A TV? The ridiculous cost of living coupled with cheap imports is driving wages up and manufacturing out in this country. Our 'lifestyle' is our delusion.

[frantic]

We are way behind numerous nations in assessing the value added to our total economy by a certain level of protection in numerous manufacturing industries.

If it costs 10% extra but makes 50-100,000 plus jobs other countries offer either protection to that industry or benefits that make it highly attractive.
China is going to reduce its steel output by 10% which will cost about 400,000 jobs, in the effort to keep those jobs it has spent around 50 billion on export bonuses flooding the world market making thousands unemployed in other countries and here.
Thailand is the centre for 4wd ute production because it offered tax free status to any producers who moved there for 7 years. They realised the massive income increase to both the country and the govt by having a few hundred thousand working on a production line paying regular tax and providing a better future for their families.
The eu and usa pay around 2-3 times per unit in govt support to what we do, (for 2 more years then we will have a far higher loss/cost with lost tax and increased welfare) ;)as well as assist on exports, so have a sustainable car industry. Even though a vast majority of eu produced models sell far fewer units domestically than any of our 3 remaining producers, yet they pay similar or higher wages.

ALL political parties are guilty to different extents.

[cuppabillytea]

Would you buy a Land Rover if it was built in a third world country? A coffee bean grown there? A TV? The ridiculous cost of living coupled with cheap imports is driving wages up and manufacturing out in this country. Our 'lifestyle' is our delusion.

As Frantic's timely post points out, it isn't about wages or life stile, it's about economy of scale and the political will of our leaders to support our exporting manufactures.
The playing field is not level and the greatest delusion that we labour under is that is level.

[MrLandy]

The playing field is not level and the greatest delusion that we labour under is that is level.

I agree with you here, but I would argue that it's the lifestyle choices that cause us to be deluded into thinking the playing field is level. We are a very wealthy nation constantly crying poor / economic disaster looming... We bring it on ourselves and our collective greed will be our undoing.

Two pizzas and two coffees in Europe would cost around $15 and $3 respectively. In Australia it's $50 and $9!! No wonder our wages are so high.

Plus our government business incentives come in the form of low (or in many cases it is clear almost no) taxes. We general tax payers are already paying through the nose for low taxed big business. No wonder our wages are so high.

Housing costs in Australian cities have surpassed those of big cities across the globe. No wonder our wages are so high.

No wonder we can't compete. We are far too affluent to be on a level playing field.

[cuppabillytea]

Or our competition isn't affluent enough. Our affluence is merely indicative of our ability to share the pie more evenly.

[Pickles2]

All sorts of opinions here.
However, I believe that if people could buy Aussie products at anywhere near the price of imported goods, they would.
Sometimes, it's near impossible to find stuff that is Aussie made,..I mean clothing,...what's made in Aussie these days?
I'm surprised that anything can be made in Aussie these days, if it has to compete with O/S stuff,...the reason?.....COSTS.
THe cumulative "COSTS", wages, bureaucracy (have I spelt it right?..I don't think so!), conditions etc etc etc, are simply too high relative to O/S.
I'm amazed we can make anything. I know we can do anything, and do it well, ...........but costs will invariably knock us out.
Pickles.

[frantic]

All sorts of opinions here.
However, I believe that if people could buy Aussie products at anywhere near the price of imported goods, they would.
Sometimes, it's near impossible to find stuff that is Aussie made,..I mean clothing,...what's made in Aussie these days?
I'm surprised that anything can be made in Aussie these days, if it has to compete with O/S stuff,...the reason?.....COSTS.
THe cumulative "COSTS", wages, bureaucracy (have I spelt it right?..I don't think so!), conditions etc etc etc, are simply too high relative to O/S.
I'm amazed we can make anything. I know we can do anything, and do it well, ...........but costs will invariably knock us out.
Pickles.

Not true.
You pick clothing, one of the highest labour cost items per unit as an example, get serious.
COMPLEX Manufacturing such as steel production and cars all require massive investment in equipment and infrastructure that has the end result of the labour component being between 3-7% of the items end cost. This means in a level playing field the transport and shipping costs should negate the difference. In reality, you make your exports not only tax free but throw in a 5-20% bonus, you drive the locals into the ground.
Yes true costs increase with things like emissions controls and OHSE, overseas producers often don't ,,,,,,
but what would you rather a clean enviroment and stuff costs a bit more, or dead zones stripped of any life by toxic crap being dumped/ emitted along with lots of deaths of workers?

[Tank]

Now let's see if I got this right, It's all our fault i.e., Australians are lazy, apathetic, don't want to work and have no ambitions.
Except of course those on here sprouting this crap.
You know, those ones that think, oh, I have a business, or I make more money so I am a class above.
It certainly can't be our Governments that sell off our assets, sign free trade agreements, scrap protective Tariffs, like the rest of our trading partners haven't done.
Sign agreements like the TPP that gives overseas companies the right to sue Australians if they don't get their way, or is it, when you get your heads out of the sand, it will be too late.
Can you imagine what would happen if I went over to China and decided I wanted to mine in their most productive food bowl, or anywhere for that matter.
They would kick my arse out of THEIR country, not here Governments for years have been allowing foreign interests to take CONTROL of our major ASSETS.
What happens if another WW starts, we are Girt by sea and we don't have a ship building/repair industry, no Merchant Navy, soon no Steel industry, where are we going to get the IMPORTS we actually need to survive. S'pose whatever government is in charge will just have to run up the white flag and going by the consensus in this thread so should we, Regards Frank.

[Homestar]

Tank, what part of 'No Politics' are you having difficulty with?

[frantic]

Tank, what part of 'No Politics' are you having difficulty with?

Is it political when talking about other countries policies?

Here's a clothing issue for pickles. A few years ago the prisons for training etc where putting in tenders against imports to make various departments uniforms. It ended up being cheaper to buy the imported uniforms than rolls of materials to use to make them. This means that either the workers pay to cut stitch and sew the uniform and it's shipped for free or their govt provides incentives to employ more people and do complete jobs? Which do you think?

[Pickles2]

Frantic, my old C.A. "sparring partner"!!
Doesn't matter what I "think", or what you "think",....the fact is we cannot compete,.....for any number of reasons,.....yours would be very different to mine, but in the end mate,...for any number of reasons, "We just can't do it".
Pickles.

[Ean Austral]

Now let's see if I got this right, It's all our fault i.e., Australians are lazy, apathetic, don't want to work and have no ambitions.
Except of course those on here sprouting this crap.
You know, those ones that think, oh, I have a business, or I make more money so I am a class above.
It certainly can't be our Governments that sell off our assets, sign free trade agreements, scrap protective Tariffs, like the rest of our trading partners haven't done.
Sign agreements like the TPP that gives overseas companies the right to sue Australians if they don't get their way, or is it, when you get your heads out of the sand, it will be too late.
Can you imagine what would happen if I went over to China and decided I wanted to mine in their most productive food bowl, or anywhere for that matter.
They would kick my arse out of THEIR country, not here Governments for years have been allowing foreign interests to take CONTROL of our major ASSETS.
What happens if another WW starts, we are Girt by sea and we don't have a ship building/repair industry, no Merchant Navy, soon no Steel industry, where are we going to get the IMPORTS we actually need to survive. S'pose whatever government is in charge will just have to run up the white flag and going by the consensus in this thread so should we, Regards Frank.



Yes Tank , as much as it pains me to say that , I believe we are heading that way. In general people in this country want to work less hours for more $$ and want all the entitlements to go with it, to afford it businesses have to charge more and so the snowball starts.
In my business I have seen first hand many sides of the industry go offshore because no one wants to do that hard manual labour style work. It has become cheaper to import fishing gear into Australia than can be made here.
Most countries we compete against don't have a welfare system like we do , and they don't pay the high wages we pay.


Blame the government as much as you like , but we as a nation have contributed to the demise of local business because we want to pay as little as possible for everything we buy , not worrying about where it comes from, how many local jobs it will cost , as long as its cheap


Cheers Ean

[Pinelli]

Our 'sovereignty as a nation' has only existed for 100 years or so. It is a figment of the majority's imagination, a contrivance overlaid on hundreds of stolen nations right across the continent.

Land Rovers aren't Australian made.

It's a quaint idea that the world respects borders. Refugees welcome I say.

Humanity before lifestyle.

This exactly.

One of the criticisms about the recent TPP, was that while Australia gets very little long term economic benefit, Vietnam is expected get get about 30% growth. I actually think this is a very good thing. Vietnam is one of the poorest countries in the world per capita (a remnant of communism and closed borders for decades) and if this agreement will help lift millions of Vietnamese out of poverty, the TPP has got to be better value than spending billions of dollar in aid, and costs us nothing cash wise.

What it does for us long term is provides a growing middle class in Asia that will want the sorts of products and services that are becoming very good at providing - financial services, education, training, engineering design.

Manufacturing did great things for us in helping our nation develop. We don't need it any more, not in a significant way.

[Homestar]

Is it political when talking about other countries policies?



No, policies - international and local can be discussed without issue - that's just what's in the news. Discussing the politics behind the policies, bagging out political parties, talking about the politics of the party is not permitted.

Tanks post is close to the wire - he is discussing policies - no dramas, but then when you get personal about those policies, and insinuate a wrong doing by the party for producing the policy is not. That's when it needs to go to CA for debate.

Clear as mud? :D

The more interesting thing is why this has turned even mildly political - if you read the OP's post, this thread is about CONSUMERS not wanting to pay more for quality. It has nothing to do with politics.

[cuppabillytea]

All true to some extent but we still need a broad based basic manufacturing and transport industry ticking away, that can be expanded rapidly if necessary.

[trog]

Ignore world wide trends and nationalise key industries required for state security ?

[cuppabillytea]

Good idea that will never happen again. We've moved to far away from there to make it possible.

[Tank]

Yes Tank , as much as it pains me to say that , I believe we are heading that way. In general people in this country want to work less hours for more $$ and want all the entitlements to go with it, to afford it businesses have to charge more and so the snowball starts.
In my business I have seen first hand many sides of the industry go offshore because no one wants to do that hard manual labour style work. It has become cheaper to import fishing gear into Australia than can be made here.
Most countries we compete against don't have a welfare system like we do , and they don't pay the high wages we pay.


Blame the government as much as you like , but we as a nation have contributed to the demise of local business because we want to pay as little as possible for everything we buy , not worrying about where it comes from, how many local jobs it will cost , as long as its cheap


Cheers Ean
Ean, mate we must be looking at two totally different parts of society, people I know don't want to work less hours for more $$$, they just want a JOB to earn SOME $$$, but there are none for the average bloke.
My main gripe is the so called Australian companies that shift manufacturing overseas with the excuse they can produce their products overseas cheaper than here, so Australians benefit from lower prices. Total bull****, I have noticed these companies now selling their overseas product here for the same and mostly higher prices. Seems the only Aussies to benefit are the owners of these companies, they must think Aussies a stupid enough to fall for that ****. The only reason is to make them richer, **** the Aussie workers.
Wait till the 457 Visa **** hits the fan, seems a few trucking companies are bringing in Asian truck drivers, shoving them out on the road in B doubles, with no experience, when these drivers rack up thousands in fines the trucking company ships them home and brings in another batch, One large private transport company have drivers that have racked up over $1.5 million in fines, 1/2 these clowns don't even have log books, even if they did they still don't know the road rules.
How do these **** get a B Double license after only being in Australia a few days, rotten to the core.
My son and I have just bought a new car hoist for our workshop, Chinese and Asian imports for a basic clear floor 4T hoist ranges from $2.6K to around $4K, we bought a Molnar "high and Wide" 4.5T clear floor hoist which is manufactured in Australia by an Australian owned and run Company for $6.9K delivered and Installed.
We bought Australian because our lives depend on working under a Safe and Certified hoist, we know if there is a problem Molnar can send out an Australian repairman and not have to haggle with some Asian.
Best of all our money stays here it creates employment, not just at Molnar.
The moral of the story harking back to the OP is that money spent on Australian made goods creates national (am I allowed to say national) wealth.
The biggest problem with creating unemployment is that companies disappear overseas, sell their cheaply made and usually inferior quality product at the same or higher price back here in Australia, BUT because they put so many Australians out of work, those now unemployed Australians CANNOT AFFORD to buy these ****TY products.
So round and round it goes, no Australian benefits, but the Asians are having a BALL at our expense, Regards Frank.

[Pickles2]

Tank, You are missing a major point.
A major reason why companies close, such as the one mentioned by the O.P., is that they cannot compete, there is no market for their product at the price they have to charge, so they close up.
Sure, companies go O.S. to make dollars, but they also go because it is simply impossible to make a product here that is competitively priced.
Now price isn't everything, like in the example of your Molnar hoist, where you are prepared to pay for safety, quality & sevice back up. I get that, but those matters are not relevant in a great many smaller & different items that are imported.
Sometimes, it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy a locally made product,..I reckon you'd be buying heaps of O.S. stuff yourself, simply because ya just CAN'T by locally made stuff.
Without making a joke of the thread,...jocks, underwear etc,....I haven't seen any local stuff for I can't remember how long?
Pickles.

[Mick_Marsh]

Tank, You are missing a major point.
A major reason why companies close, such as the one mentioned by the O.P., is that they cannot compete, there is no market for their product at the price they have to charge, so they close up.
Sure, companies go O.S. to make dollars, but they also go because it is simply impossible to make a product here that is competitively priced.
Now price isn't everything, like in the example of your Molnar hoist, where you are prepared to pay for safety, quality & sevice back up. I get that, but those matters are not relevant in a great many smaller & different items that are imported.
Sometimes, it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy a locally made product,..I reckon you'd be buying heaps of O.S. stuff yourself, simply because ya just CAN'T by locally made stuff.
Without making a joke of the thread,...jocks, underwear etc,....I haven't seen any local stuff for I can't remember how long?
Pickles.
No, Mr Pickles. Frank has finally got it. I take it you read the article, Frank. And comprehended what was being said.
From the article:


Mr Marsh said the company could not survive once customers bought on price rather than quality.
"I do believe that our product is better than a lot of the imported stuff but when customers are buying on price, quality doesn't come into it," he said.


Some time ago, I was chatting with a fellow who was blaming all and sundry for the demise of the Holden workers' jobs. That same night, he proudly showed me a pair of his and hers Hyundai i30s in the garage. "That" I said "tells me you don't put your money where your mouth is."



Me, I choose quality over price any day. I'm sick of buying Chinese screws that either break or their heads are as soft as putty. I bought some Australian screws today to fix my chainsaw box. Hard to find, but I found them.

[bob10]

No, policies - international and local can be discussed without issue - that's just what's in the news. Discussing the politics behind the policies, bagging out political parties, talking about the politics of the party is not permitted.

.

Thank you for that explanation, I have placed it in my favorites, if needed in the future.

[Pickles2]

No, Mr Pickles. Frank has finally got it. I take it you read the article, Frank. And comprehended what was being said.
From the article:



Some time ago, I was chatting with a fellow who was blaming all and sundry for the demise of the Holden workers' jobs. That same night, he proudly showed me a pair of his and hers Hyundai i30s in the garage. "That" I said "tells me you don't put your money where your mouth is."



Me, I choose quality over price any day. I'm sick of buying Chinese screws that either break or their heads are as soft as putty. I bought some Australian screws today to fix my chainsaw box. Hard to find, but I found them.
No worries Mick, who made the screws & where did you buy them?
Pickles.

[frantic]

Tank, You are missing a major point.
A major reason why companies close, such as the one mentioned by the O.P., is that they cannot compete, there is no market for their product at the price they have to charge, so they close up.
Sure, companies go O.S. to make dollars, but they also go because it is simply impossible to make a product here that is competitively priced.
Now price isn't everything, like in the example of your Molnar hoist, where you are prepared to pay for safety, quality & sevice back up. I get that, but those matters are not relevant in a great many smaller & different items that are imported.
Sometimes, it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy a locally made product,..I reckon you'd be buying heaps of O.S. stuff yourself, simply because ya just CAN'T by locally made stuff.
Without making a joke of the thread,...jocks, underwear etc,....I haven't seen any local stuff for I can't remember how long?
Pickles.
Actually speaking of jocks :D can you show us how much the in store price dropped of BONDS jocks and singlets after they moved all production offshore?
That would be zip from my experience.

Then speaking safety there is the recent warehouse roof that collapsed where they where told by the insurance co that if they used chinese steel frame and roofing they would not insure them in the future.

[Pinelli]

Actually speaking of jocks :D can you show us how much the in store price dropped of BONDS jocks and singlets after they moved all production offshore?
That would be zip from my experience.

Then speaking safety there is the recent warehouse roof that collapsed where they where told by the insurance co that if they used chinese steel frame and roofing they would not insure them in the future.

At the moment, importers can self-certify that their products meet Australian standards. SA government is making moves to change that, so that imported products must be independently certified against Australian Standards. Seems a sensible move to me.

[trog]

My sceptic thoughts lead me to see the certification outsourced , ( to the country of origin ? ) , so as to keep the price down

[Ean Austral]

Ean, mate we must be looking at two totally different parts of society, people I know don't want to work less hours for more $$$, they just want a JOB to earn SOME $$$, but there are none for the average bloke.
My main gripe is the so called Australian companies that shift manufacturing overseas with the excuse they can produce their products overseas cheaper than here, so Australians benefit from lower prices. Total bull****, I have noticed these companies now selling their overseas product here for the same and mostly higher prices. Seems the only Aussies to benefit are the owners of these companies, they must think Aussies a stupid enough to fall for that ****. The only reason is to make them richer, **** the Aussie workers.
Wait till the 457 Visa **** hits the fan, seems a few trucking companies are bringing in Asian truck drivers, shoving them out on the road in B doubles, with no experience, when these drivers rack up thousands in fines the trucking company ships them home and brings in another batch, One large private transport company have drivers that have racked up over $1.5 million in fines, 1/2 these clowns don't even have log books, even if they did they still don't know the road rules.
How do these **** get a B Double license after only being in Australia a few days, rotten to the core.
My son and I have just bought a new car hoist for our workshop, Chinese and Asian imports for a basic clear floor 4T hoist ranges from $2.6K to around $4K, we bought a Molnar "high and Wide" 4.5T clear floor hoist which is manufactured in Australia by an Australian owned and run Company for $6.9K delivered and Installed.
We bought Australian because our lives depend on working under a Safe and Certified hoist, we know if there is a problem Molnar can send out an Australian repairman and not have to haggle with some Asian.
Best of all our money stays here it creates employment, not just at Molnar.
The moral of the story harking back to the OP is that money spent on Australian made goods creates national (am I allowed to say national) wealth.
The biggest problem with creating unemployment is that companies disappear overseas, sell their cheaply made and usually inferior quality product at the same or higher price back here in Australia, BUT because they put so many Australians out of work, those now unemployed Australians CANNOT AFFORD to buy these ****TY products.
So round and round it goes, no Australian benefits, but the Asians are having a BALL at our expense, Regards Frank.

Gday Frank,


I commend you on the locally made hoist, and I think there are a % of people who do try and support local products, but last sunday I emailed 2 companies in Australia to see about purchasing centre caps for my steel rims. Guess what.. no reply even tho 1 of those companies has their name stamped on the wheels and I used both their on-line contact page and also the email address supplied. This morning I have been online and they will likely come out of china - Is that my fault for not buying Australian ?


As for the separate issue of 457 visa's , well guess what , I employ 12 people on 457 visa's because the Aussie and kiwi engineers we had on our vessels were to busy wanting to spend every minute in the pub and would even hold boats up from sailing because of the pub was more important, guess how many problem we have had with the foreign engineers - none- altho the 2 Aussies we have kept are far better at the job.


We use about 20 casual people to work at our factory here or for unloading boats , guess what the standard answer from local people is when they ask if I have work.. I will only work for cash, most likely so they can continue to claim the dole , my main casual workforce is all back packers . I even tried the low security prisoners for a while, but that fell thru because of red tape issues when it came to needing them to work public holidays.


From where I sit , and from what I have seen first hand in trying to supply seafood from the cleanest oceans and best sustainable manage prawn fishery in the world is that majority of people in this country will buy the cheapest item regardless of its origin or what the flow on effects are for local business.


The work ethic and 457visa's issues are for another thread.


Cheers Ean

[cuppabillytea]

Fine. As long as they are on the same pay and conditions. Also there is no excuse for sacking an Australian worker and replacing him/her with a 457. That is not the intention of the 457.

[Ean Austral]

Fine. As long as they are on the same pay and conditions. Also there is no excuse for sacking an Australian worker and replacing him/her with a 457. That is not the intention of the 457.



If people seen what you have to go thru to get 457 workers instead of reading the media / union hype they would see that it most likely cost more to have them. If there are loopholes then I haven't found them.


Cheers Ean

[superquag]

My sceptic thoughts lead me to see the certification outsourced , ( to the country of origin ? ) , so as to keep the price down

I suspect that's just an extension of what is already happening. eg. 'Australian Standards' are NOT a Federal gov't. department... it is, I'm told, a private company that devises/invents standards, which are accepted by Parliament...and thus it/they can become 'Law'.

Danger is, they don't always get it right.

A case in point was an expensive and fashionable jacket-cum-flotation garment, whose 'Approval' I questioned when doing my Skipper's Licence (recreation boating). I was annoyed that my English you-beaut self-inflating life-sausage was deemed "NOT meeting the Standard" due to it being ORANGE only, and containing no 'YELLOW'. - Only legal if I fell off a sail-boat. - Illegal if the boat was powered...

The Jacket DID have both colours, - but we discovered that you had to virtually rip it apart to expose the yellow material ! - It fulfilled the 'Standard'... but...

- The training organization deleted the jacket from their catalogue...:D

[Tank]

If people seen what you have to go thru to get 457 workers instead of reading the media / union hype they would see that it most likely cost more to have them. If there are loopholes then I haven't found them.


Cheers Ean
Ean, I drove mine and others trucks interstate and intrastate on and off for 30 years between being a mechanic and rigging/construction work, I, You, could trust that most truck drivers were reasonably competent on our highways, except for some cowboys on Sesame street.
A news broadcast on telly the other night showed 2 of these 457 visa drivers (both Asian) with a B double holding up peak hour traffic because they couldn't back their truck away from a supposedly low bridge (tunnel) under the airport.
No log books, no skills, no care, coppers fined them $3K and bought in a qualified driver to remove the truck.
My son spent around a $1000 to get his rigid truck license, he has 2 years of Mine Drilling experience, 2 years as an Apprentice mechanic to a firm that went bust, was not able to get a position to resume his apprenticeship then finds that this Firm that went broke only did so to avoid debts, this firm now has 2 Korean workers doing what my son used to do, these 2 workers who don't speak a word of English get paid less in total than what my son was getting as a 2nd. year apprentice.
The whole system is ****ed and we need to wake up to this fact, before China buys Australia lock, stock and barrel, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

I suspect that's just an extension of what is already happening. eg. 'Australian Standards' are NOT a Federal gov't. department... it is, I'm told, a private company that devises/invents standards, which are accepted by Parliament...and thus it/they can become 'Law'.

Danger is, they don't always get it right.

A case in point was an expensive and fashionable jacket-cum-flotation garment, whose 'Approval' I questioned when doing my Skipper's Licence (recreation boating). I was annoyed that my English you-beaut self-inflating life-sausage was deemed "NOT meeting the Standard" due to it being ORANGE only, and containing no 'YELLOW'. - Only legal if I fell off a sail-boat. - Illegal if the boat was powered...

The Jacket DID have both colours, - but we discovered that you had to virtually rip it apart to expose the yellow material ! - It fulfilled the 'Standard'... but...

- The training organization deleted the jacket from their catalogue...:D
You will find that Australian Standards (AS) committees are made up of random academics, many who have no ****ing idea of the product/item up for determination by the committee, the kicker is that most if not all such committees have a vested interest person on that same committee.
This person is a representative of the product being assessed and has the power to VETO any decision that may be detrimental to attaining AS# for their product.
So we can't even get this right what chance have we got to pull ourselves back up, Regards Frank.

[PAT303]

I regularly tell people to buy parts from O/S instead of here,I do it for good reason,an example is my heater matrix,$52 Aus from the UK,5 day delivery time,from an Oz supplier,$405 with a 5 day delivery time,now you tell me why should I buy from an Oz company and pay them $353 to order a part from O/S when it took me 3 minutes to do myself?.I also look at the vehicle industry,Ford and Holden went bust because they cannot compete with cheap imports,thats the general consensus anyway,well why can't they compete when they only spend about $150 on R/D,most of that is working out how to fit a crate motor into what ever heap of **** they were making at the time when Land Rover can make the most advanced 4wd vehicles on the road,all made in the UK with HIGHER costs than we have because of the strength of the pound and not only survive but thrive,selling the highest number of the most advanced vehicles you will find anywhere over the last couple of years?.Australian companys have gone bust because they sell a rubbish product or a product they want to sell instead of a product the customer wants to buy for and inflated price with the WORST absolute WORST customer service you will find anywhere. Pat

[Ean Austral]

Ean, I drove mine and others trucks interstate and intrastate on and off for 30 years between being a mechanic and rigging/construction work, I, You, could trust that most truck drivers were reasonably competent on our highways, except for some cowboys on Sesame street.
A news broadcast on telly the other night showed 2 of these 457 visa drivers (both Asian) with a B double holding up peak hour traffic because they couldn't back their truck away from a supposedly low bridge (tunnel) under the airport.
No log books, no skills, no care, coppers fined them $3K and bought in a qualified driver to remove the truck.
My son spent around a $1000 to get his rigid truck license, he has 2 years of Mine Drilling experience, 2 years as an Apprentice mechanic to a firm that went bust, was not able to get a position to resume his apprenticeship then finds that this Firm that went broke only did so to avoid debts, this firm now has 2 Korean workers doing what my son used to do, these 2 workers who don't speak a word of English get paid less in total than what my son was getting as a 2nd. year apprentice.
The whole system is ****ed and we need to wake up to this fact, before China buys Australia lock, stock and barrel, Regards Frank.


I don't know anyone who as knocked back selling their asset to an overseas buyer, be it a business or personal asset, if that buyer will pay the price or a higher price than they are asking for ...Do you ? Do we want that option taken away any more than what it already is under government policy,?


We have just come out of the biggest resources boom ever , so why are there not trades people everywhere ? , I have my suspicion its because the average young person in this country wouldn't work for apprentice wages and wants a 6 figure salary straight out of school. Our youngest daughter when she was a first and second year apprentice made more per hour working casual for me than her apprentice wage , but when she told me she should leave and work for me because the money was better , I told her I would not employ her. This is a lot of the reason we now have to seek 457 workers.


There are 2 companies in Darwin who supply rigging gear ie wire, straps etc , there is now only 1 that offers the wire splicing service and they had to bring someone in on a 457 to do it because they couldn't get anyone to take up the position, it was too hot , too hard, not enough pay etc etc , the other company opted out and does not supply that service.
When I first started my fishing career in the early 80's , we learnt how to splice wire as part of our job , I still find myself having to splice wire's for our boats and when I offer to teach the new generation they say nah , and sit down and play on their phones waiting for me to finish... its called attitude... The funny thing is I can splice the different types of wire splices and I cant get a job as a wire splicer here because I don't have a piece of paper to say im qualified.


I still say that as a society we buy on price first , quality second and place of origin 3rd , and our complacent attitude to customer service and our overall desire to want to do less for more is a lot of the reason our country is so reliant on imports.


We wont start on some of the ridiculous OH & S rules


Cheers Ean

[frantic]

The trades, or a lack of them are a 2 way street. When I first started at bhp just over 20 years ago the apprentice s training shops where full with over a hundred of both sparkles and fitters each. 4 years later it was a ghost town for around 8 years, if I mention reason it goes CA. Then about 7-8 years ago we started getting apprentices back around the works. Again that program has been curtailed about 18 months ago with far fewer last year and no new faces this year.
If we don't train any we can't complain when there are none. The other issue is if it's cheaper to get a 457 than train a local were dooming ourselves to stupidity.

Ean, majority of OHSE rules are usually in response to a serious injury or fatality, so are a direct result of your peers negligence. By the same token if you manage them correctly they are easy to control.

[cuppabillytea]

I don't know anyone who as knocked back selling their asset to an overseas buyer, be it a business or personal asset, if that buyer will pay the price or a higher price than they are asking for ...Do you ? Do we want that option taken away any more than what it already is under government policy,?


We have just come out of the biggest resources boom ever , so why are there not trades people everywhere ? , I have my suspicion its because the average young person in this country wouldn't work for apprentice wages and wants a 6 figure salary straight out of school. Our youngest daughter when she was a first and second year apprentice made more per hour working casual for me than her apprentice wage , but when she told me she should leave and work for me because the money was better , I told her I would not employ her. This is a lot of the reason we now have to seek 457 workers.


There are 2 companies in Darwin who supply rigging gear ie wire, straps etc , there is now only 1 that offers the wire splicing service and they had to bring someone in on a 457 to do it because they couldn't get anyone to take up the position, it was too hot , too hard, not enough pay etc etc , the other company opted out and does not supply that service.
When I first started my fishing career in the early 80's , we learnt how to splice wire as part of our job , I still find myself having to splice wire's for our boats and when I offer to teach the new generation they say nah , and sit down and play on their phones waiting for me to finish... its called attitude... The funny thing is I can splice the different types of wire splices and I cant get a job as a wire splicer here because I don't have a piece of paper to say im qualified.


I still say that as a society we buy on price first , quality second and place of origin 3rd , and our complacent attitude to customer service and our overall desire to want to do less for more is a lot of the reason our country is so reliant on imports.


We wont start on some of the ridiculous OH & S rules


Cheers Ean
Well that all rings true we have the same problem where I work.

On the OH&S. Being the Safety Officer, doesn't take up too much of my time and although some of it is tedious and apparently farcical, it does work.

Any way the OP was about why we should buy Australian. I can tell you that if there is that option I always will, unless the price is greater than 10 percent more or the product is inferior.

[Mick_Marsh]

Cable girl (http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/80m-infinity-electrical-cable-recall-badly-handled-whistleblowers-say/news-story/131906f4d6231225e9b09f3bf5f8a8b5)


Electrical cable could become fire risk in Australian homes within weeks, ACCC warns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-02/electrocutions-fires-possible-as-electrical-cable-deteriorates/7211674)

[LandyAndy]

If I recall correctly there was a recall of electrical wiring a year or 2 ago.Best part was most of it was sold by hardware stores to DIY home warriors.
No way of checking if its now gyprocked in.Plenty of potential fire issues to come.
Andrew

[Eevo]

If I recall correctly there was a recall of electrical wiring a year or 2 ago.Best part was most of it was sold by hardware stores to DIY home warriors.
No way of checking if its now gyprocked in.Plenty of potential fire issues to come.
Andrew

i recall that. bunnings were selling it about 12 months ago.

[LandyAndy]

i recall that. bunnings were selling it about 12 months ago.

They all were.
Was only sold at hardware shops,the quality stuff was at the electrician supply stores.
Andrew

[Mick_Marsh]

i recall that. bunnings were selling it about 12 months ago.
Wouldn't surprise me.

From the article:

The bulk of the cable was sold through Masters, which is being either sold or shut down by owners Woolworths.
There is a reason why some things are cheap.

[Simon]

Mighty nice of Woolworths, so who pays for stripping the wire out of wherever it has been installed and installing proper cable?

To my mind if you sell a defective product you should wear the complete cost, not just basic replace the item.

[V8Ian]

Mighty nice of Woolworths, so who pays for stripping the wire out of wherever it has been installed and installing proper cable?

To my mind if you sell a defective product you should wear the complete cost, not just basic replace the item.

The onus has fallen on the electrical contractors to rectify the work, not Masters. The cost of stripping and rewiring will be far more than the original price, this will send many hard working contractors and companies to the wall.
Masters only have to replace the defective materials.

[Simon]

Class Action??

Good proof though of "buy cheap, buy twice", the epitaph of the modern consumer world.

[Homestar]

The onus has fallen on the electrical contractors to rectify the work, not Masters. The cost of stripping and rewiring will be far more than the original price, this will send many hard working contractors and companies to the wall.
Masters only have to replace the defective materials.

Not true - certainly not in Victoria anyway. The recall is voluntary, so anyone who thinks they have this cable installed needs to employ the services of an Electrician to check thier premises and pay them for rectification works. An Electrician cannot be held responsible if the product installed was legal and approved when installed (which it was).

There is a similar case in Victoria at the moment where large quantities of CCA was installed (legally) into a building. That brand of cable has now had its approval withdrawn by ESV and is not allowed to be used, but the contractor that installed it (although hit up for the cost of replacement - around a million dollars worth of work) - doesn't have to oblige as the product was legal when he sold it. He has had legal council on this and the owner of the building has backed off as they have no recourse now.

[cuppabillytea]

Someone will pay and it won't be the manufacturer.
As Mick sais "Buy Australian".

[V8Ian]

Not true - certainly not in Victoria anyway. The recall is voluntary, so anyone who thinks they have this cable installed needs to employ the services of an Electrician to check thier premises and pay them for rectification works. An Electrician cannot be held responsible if the product installed was legal and approved when installed (which it was).

There is a similar case in Victoria at the moment where large quantities of CCA was installed (legally) into a building. That brand of cable has now had its approval withdrawn by ESV and is not allowed to be used, but the contractor that installed it (although hit up for the cost of replacement - around a million dollars worth of work) - doesn't have to oblige as the product was legal when he sold it. He has had legal council on this and the owner of the building has backed off as they have no recourse now.

I'm passing on information, as relayed to me, by an electrician friend, re the situation in Queensland.

As Mick says, support Aussie products when possible. Why would anybody trust manufacturing from a country prepared to dilute baby formula with cheaper poison?

[LandyAndy]

That was all about lowering the birth rate Ian.
Andrew

[trog]

I have two choices , pay a fair number of dollars to get a custom tv/stereo cabinet made up , or go to the Swedish flat pack shop and get something off the shelf and modify slightly to suit. Not a decision I like to make but searches dont show much comparable especially to give enough storage space for records or allow the lid to raise on the turntable. Flat pack results in mass consumption of beer to erase the nitemare of the visit and build but custom prices !

[Mick_Marsh]

I have two choices , pay a fair number of dollars to get a custom tv/stereo cabinet made up , or go to the Swedish flat pack shop and get something off the shelf and modify slightly to suit. Not a decision I like to make but searches dont show much comparable especially to give enough storage space for records or allow the lid to raise on the turntable. Flat pack results in mass consumption of beer to erase the nitemare of the visit and build but custom prices !
I ended up getting something custom made. By an Australian craftsman. Locally.
Very happy with the result.

[Mick_Marsh]

China's cancer rates exploding, more than 4 million people diagnosed in 2015, study says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-24/china's-cancer-rates-exploding-study-says/7272266)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I have two choices , pay a fair number of dollars to get a custom tv/stereo cabinet made up , or go to the Swedish flat pack shop and get something off the shelf ... <snip>!often made by prisoners under indentured servitude. Even the Swidish firm's factories in the US have complaints from workers who can't survive on the full time wages they receive.

On the other hand, apart from individual craftsmen, how many iconic Aussie brands are still actually owned in Australia, the list is short and getting shorter.

Our balance of trade figures always seems to include a proportion of profit taking, if they were still Aussie owned, the profits would remain in Australia and not damage our nation's balance sheet.

[Tank]

I regularly tell people to buy parts from O/S instead of here,I do it for good reason,an example is my heater matrix,$52 Aus from the UK,5 day delivery time,from an Oz supplier,$405 with a 5 day delivery time,now you tell me why should I buy from an Oz company and pay them $353 to order a part from O/S when it took me 3 minutes to do myself?.I also look at the vehicle industry,Ford and Holden went bust because they cannot compete with cheap imports,thats the general consensus anyway,well why can't they compete when they only spend about $150 on R/D,most of that is working out how to fit a crate motor into what ever heap of **** they were making at the time when Land Rover can make the most advanced 4wd vehicles on the road,all made in the UK with HIGHER costs than we have because of the strength of the pound and not only survive but thrive,selling the highest number of the most advanced vehicles you will find anywhere over the last couple of years?.Australian companys have gone bust because they sell a rubbish product or a product they want to sell instead of a product the customer wants to buy for and inflated price with the WORST absolute WORST customer service you will find anywhere. Pat
Pat, how hard did you look for an Australian made/manufactured product before buying O/S.
My experiences have shown to be the opposite of what you're stating.
For example, was looking to buy a Magnetti Marrelli alternator for my 300TDi, shopped around here at home and got prices ranging from $600 to (from Karcraft, Silverwater, Sydney), $305 delivered Express Post one day later.
Best price I could get in UK was from Paddocks for $158 AUD., great says I, I'll have one of those, then the lady says it will cost $150 AUD. for packaging and delivery for a total cost of $308 and up to 5 days delivery, which is way better than anything from the USA, up to 20 days before the Item even leaves the USA, and at prices that will make your bum bleed.
So my Alternator arrives 1 day later and $3 cheaper than from O/S.
It pays to shop around and then support Aussie dealers that do the right thing on prices and delivery, I buy most of my LR stuff from Karcraft even though I might be able to get it cheaper down here locally (uni-joints for instance), Regards Frank.

[Mick_Marsh]

More cheap building products used that could prove very costly.
Asbestos-tainted construction firm Yuanda's Australian projects 'need investigation' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-14/asbestos-tainted-firm-yuanda-australian-projects-investigation/7630552)

[frantic]

Yup another save 20c but kill the workers , staff and patients as the roof breaks down and their all exposed to asbestos.
Now how much more would it have cost in $$$ to use local products and have 100% certainty that there was no asbestos?
Would that difference be less than the future medical care of the building workers who may develop asbestosis?
Less than the cost of having to replace the materials or delay the opening or stop anyone from disturbing it and if they do shutting down the area?

[MrLandy]

Pat, how hard did you look for an Australian made/manufactured product before buying O/S.
My experiences have shown to be the opposite of what you're stating.
For example, was looking to buy a Magnetti Marrelli alternator for my 300TDi, shopped around here at home and got prices ranging from $600 to (from Karcraft, Silverwater, Sydney), $305 delivered Express Post one day later.
Best price I could get in UK was from Paddocks for $158 AUD., great says I, I'll have one of those, then the lady says it will cost $150 AUD. for packaging and delivery for a total cost of $308 and up to 5 days delivery, which is way better than anything from the USA, up to 20 days before the Item even leaves the USA, and at prices that will make your bum bleed.
So my Alternator arrives 1 day later and $3 cheaper than from O/S.
It pays to shop around and then support Aussie dealers that do the right thing on prices and delivery, I buy most of my LR stuff from Karcraft even though I might be able to get it cheaper down here locally (uni-joints for instance), Regards Frank.

Obviously it's variable, but on the whole I have to say I agree with Pat. And Land Rover Australia are one of the worst offenders when it comes to inflated prices for parts and service. Buy the parts yourself or go to a reputable Indi is a no brainer. Warranty servicing would leave a better taste in our mouths too if the captive market wasn't so taken for granted.

Cost of living in Australia is so overblown that it's become un-Australian to buy Australian. WHat the?!

[hodgo]

Australia is rapidly becoming a third world country with first world wages, how long can this way of life exist. If the government does not wake up we are going to be in one bloody great financial mess shortley

[MrLandy]

Seriously? Australia is so far from being a third world country. But you are correct to some extent - our government treats certain sectors of Australian society as third-world citizens, namely many Indigenous people, refugees and numerous other under privileged sectors. I don't think everyone here thinks we have first world wages! Especially when compared to cost of housing, services, etc. We certainly don't have first world broadband or support for innovation, education, manufacturing, etc. Warped government spending priorities result in us NOT being able to afford to buy Australian IMO.

[Ferret]

My attempt to buy Australian.

Needed some parts for some gym equipment the wife uses. Go to the Australian distributors website and fill out their request for service. Receive email back with my customer service reference number. Reply again using my customer service number with list of part numbers I need. Wait a week and no response so email again asking is anything happening. Wait a week - no reply so I ring them and quote my customer service number. Get some drone on the phone who acknowledges receipt of my emails but says the person looking after customer service is 'very busy' but they will get back to me. Wait another week and give up.

Try an Australian third party website who says they supply parts - ring them to enquire. They say they will see if they can supply and will ring me back. I'm still waiting.

Try a another Australian parts supplier - same deal except I hear the guy on the phone yell across the room to a college "do we deal in such and such brand" ..."uhm, get his number and tell him we ring him back". You can guess what happened.

I wanted to give my money to 3 Australian companies - none of them wanted it. My money went to a USA web site instead and I've since been back again for other bibs and bobs.

[MrLandy]

Exactly Ferret. But don't you know we live in a disposable world! You're not supposed to fix anything...they want you to just chuck it away and buy a new one!:confused:

[MrLandy]

One exception to poor service that I've experienced is with Weber BBQ.

I inherited a second hand gas Weber from a friend. It was in terrible shape but I thought I'd try fixing it. After 2 full days of pulling apart, scrubbing, soaking, etc the BBQ came up shiny as new. It was over 10 years old. The only problem was that the burners were burnt out, the knobs melted and the ignition spark switch dead. I rang Weber to ask if I could buy some replacement parts. They answered immediately and said no, because all Weber BBQ's have a lifetime warranty on all parts - and that they would ship me all new parts for free!! The parts were courired to me the next day!! All free of charge. Amazing!!. Now my Weber BBQ is as good as new.

Needless to say I've recommended Weber to many friends and family on the basis of this, all of whom have purchased new Webers over the past couple of years. I've since also purchased another Weber, a baby Q for camping.

Imagine if Land Rover offered a lifetime warranty free of charge? Everyone would buy a Land Rover. Supposed poor reliability reputation would be cured once and for all and Land Rover engineers would built better vehicles. I'd even pay extra for that peace of mind. Not that you need to with Weber.

[Mick_Marsh]

Imagine if Land Tocer offered a lifetime warranty free of charge? Everyone would buy a Land Rover. Supposed poor reliability reputation would be cured once and for all and Land Rover engineers would built better vehicles. I'd even pay extra for that peace of mind. Not that you need to with Weber.
Toyota sort of tried that. A mate had a Camry. Toyota said "The first replacement of a part is free." When the discs wore out, he got new discs free.
If you want a good cheap car that is reasonably reliable and is dull and uninspiring, get an old Camry. Built in Altona.

[Mick_Marsh]

Fears over asbestos imports spark call for better border controls for building products - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-18/perth-asbestos-find-sparks-imported-building-products-call/7636922)

[Dop]

I have just read this entire thread, and it seams that everyone has a valid point. Our country is not a third world country (unless you use our health stats), we are the only western country with a rising number of cases of leprosy (a third world disease). Mention was made of our stuff meeting environmental standards and over seas stuff not, well we don't make anything with CFCs in it, but all the refrigerators made for China and India still have them (we live in a fools paradise). Canada still mine asbestos and sell it to India. I once heard a description of Australia as "a spend thrift who found an air loom in the attic", we can't give it away quick enough. China own a lot of our railways, ports and mines (and now a large % of our electricity suppliers). Our children struggle to get a trade, or even a job. I have a friend who developed a new way of dealing with a spinal disease, he offered the manufacture of this machine to many different Australian companies (including the Australian Government) and was turned down. He had an offer from an American company, $22,000,000 up front and 25% royalties for the life of production, he took it (and this was in the 1980s). Remember the original Holden, we let that go. I have to be careful here or my leftist views will give me away, I love my country, I don't love my government (either main party). I would die for the country I grew up in, the country I live in now, who knows, it is no longer the same. I honestly think the worst thing ever invented was the concept and reality of the "share holder", good by ethics and social responsibility!

[Mick_Marsh]

Heard this on the radio this morning.

Unsafe imports have caused a jump in the number of product recalls.

Hoverboard fires, food scares fuel 'concerning' jump in Australian product recalls: ACCC - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-02/food-scares-fuel-jump-in-australia-product-recalls-accc-says/7679258)

[Dop]

I used to work for Bunnings, they used to (probably still do) pride themselves on the fact that all the timber they sell is sourced from reputable and sustainable growers. They didn't like it when I pointed out that most of the goods they sell are made by people on about a dollar a day. Also I am a motor trimmer/upholster, I can improve on the quality of most products that can be purchased, but cannot come near the prices (and that's after importing it). They are deceiving the purchaser and Enslaving the actual producer, all for an increase in profit.

[DiscoMick]

It's hard sometimes.
For example, I need a new rear mudflap and support strut for the 110, after tearing the original off on the beach. There are plenty on ebay, but all imported. All of the choices cost a lot to freight in. One English supplier wanted to charge freight of 4 times the actual cost of the mudflap and strut. One quote was $130 including freight for a single mudflap and strut!
Surely someone here could knock up a rubber mudflap to size and a strut to hold it and send it to a capital city for a competitive price?

[Dop]

It's hard sometimes.
For example, I need a new rear mudflap and support strut for the 110, after tearing the original off on the beach. There are plenty on ebay, but all imported. All of the choices cost a lot to freight in. One English supplier wanted to charge freight of 4 times the actual cost of the mudflap and strut. One quote was $130 including freight for a single mudflap and strut!
Surely someone here could knock up a rubber mudflap to size and a strut to hold it and send it to a capital city for a competitive price?

That is insane, I bought brand new back in 1984 a L300 Mitsubishi, lost the plastic screw in fuel cap, went to Mitsubishi to get the replacement and was told that the replacement for the L300 was $80 (made here) however, the very same sized one was in the Magna (it was an import) and it was $25! Go figure!

[MrLandy]

I used to work for Bunnings, they used to (probably still do) pride themselves on the fact that all the timber they sell is sourced from reputable and sustainable growers. They didn't like it when I pointed out that most of the goods they sell are made by people on about a dollar a day. Also I am a motor trimmer/upholster, I can improve on the quality of most products that can be purchased, but cannot come near the prices (and that's after importing it). They are deceiving the purchaser and Enslaving the actual producer, all for an increase in profit.

Hey Dop, too true...it is rife across many industries and primary producers, from dairy farmers, to writers, to technology production, to musicians. Capitalism de-values the primary producers because all the focus is on the relatively wealthy end users. This is why I believe capitalism is imploding. The ultimate end result of growth capitalism is that there is only one winner. And we are seeing the effects, from increases in refugees to desperate voters making rash decisions all over the world out of frustration because they feel devalued by global society.

It's very difficult to buy many products from ethical producers, because growth capitalism doesn't really value the source, the maker or the creative origin...it only values the end consumable product or service and wants it cheap or for free! Or weirdly for some things is prepared to pay top dollar because they can.

All of which makes it difficult for service providers and retailers ultimately, because eventually the de-valued majority won't be able to afford to pay the prices that the wealthy minority dictate, either discount as the maker, or top dollar as the consumer. We are heading there fast and there will be a backlash.

....I'm afraid to say, we ain't seen nothing yet.

[Dop]

Very, very true MrLandy. The global economy is still based on the system that John Maynard Keynes, along with someone else who's name escapes me, wrote called the second word war and how to pay for it. It is based on a conflict economy, meaning without a war or national conflict economic growth stagnates. It requires infinite growth, a little difficult in a finite world! I have a great documentary by Marilyn Waring, called "Counting for nothing". In it she explains how the journey of the Exxon Valdez was the most productive tanker journey ever! A real eye opener that! She was voted into New Zealand Parliament in 1975, awesome women. If you would like a copy (4 free) I can send you 1. Any way I must concur, we have seen nothing yet.
PS, I also have a brilliant docy called "Collapse", worth a watch if you are interested.

[MrLandy]

And perhaps an economist can explain: if we currently have the lowest inflation of all time, why interest rates keep being reduced and why Australian prices and the cost of living keep rising? ...though I'm not holding my breath, because it seems that the majority of economists remain so smitten by the dead end of growth capitalism that the blinkers are welded on...

[DiscoMick]

And perhaps an economist can explain why, if we currently have the lowest inflation of all time, interest rates keep being reduced and why Australian prices and the cost of living keep rising? ...though I'm not holding my breath, because it seems that the majority of economists remain so smitten by the dead end of growth capitalism that the blinkers are welded on...

I'll have a go. Our export prices for raw materials have halved, and we've moved much of our manufacturing plants to cheaper overseas countries such as China and Thailand, but we're still importing as many flat screen TVs, vehicles, computers and everything else, so how do we fund that? By borrowing money. Hence our private debt has hit record levels, so we need two fulltime incomes to pay our bills, but now there aren't enough jobs to employ everyone who needs a job to pay those bills. So, the economy is stagnating and our governments don't know what to do. The Reserve Bank just keeps cutting interest rates hoping we'll start spending again, but you can't spend money you don't have to spare, so all that's happening is that property prices in crowded Sydney keep soaring while the rest of the country is stagnant. Or, to put it another way, free market capitalism is failing.

Incidentally, I just emailed to cancel my mudflap order. Next week I'll trawl ebay for a cheaper alternative.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[MrLandy]

I'll have a go. Our export prices for raw materials have halved, and we've moved much of our manufacturing plants to cheaper overseas countries such as China and Thailand, but we're still importing as many flat screen TVs, vehicles, computers and everything else, so how do we fund that? By borrowing money. Hence our private debt has hit record levels, so we need two fulltime incomes to pay our bills, but now there aren't enough jobs to employ everyone who needs a job to pay those bills. So, the economy is stagnating and our governments don't know what to do. The Reserve Bank just keeps cutting interest rates hoping we'll start spending again, but you can't spend money you don't have to spare, so all that's happening is that property prices in crowded Sydney keep soaring while the rest of the country is stagnant. Or, to put it another way, free market capitalism is failing.

Incidentally, I just emailed to cancel my mudflap order. Next week I'll trawl ebay for a cheaper alternative.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Nice one Mick. True. But then if everything's cheaper why do we greedy mob need two incomes? Because some services and products are way too expensive and we keep buying into it without bartering? ...in other words, because relatively we are so wealthy we expect to pay more. Unless it's for disposable white goods and tvs. ...and mudflaps?

Indeed we are really in trouble when even the biggest primary producers - the mines - are devalued. Not that I feel sorry for BHP. But I am very concerned for all workers around the world who are struggling to make ends meet due to the effects of short sighted greed engendered by growth capitalism.

Make your own mudflap out of a bit of recycled rubber. It will be more beautiful, unique and probably won't melt or fall off. Oh but hang on, then no one will value it! 😄

[Dop]

We could develop some guts, shove it up the yanks and so called "free trade" and grow hemp to replace forestry products, better quality paper, cleaner plastics, invest in nuclear power as an alternative to coal till renewable sources are improved (if you look at how many people die in the mining, transport, production and burning of coal fired power stations compared to nuclear, it is worth it)(as well as the radiation that is released from a coal power station) Accept a drop in the living standards of the mega rich, reduce corporate welfare, get rid of work for the dole (which is an insult to the lot of us) reinvest in public education and health, have a flat tax rate so EVERYONE pays their bit, we may just turn this joint around!

I know not every thing I say is everyone's truth, but even if we just put more into education and health, the social return would most definitely bear fruit. It may even return hope to our youth! Getting late and I have been drinking again, better shut up!

[JDNSW]

I think it is a copout to blame capitalism per se. The buck stops with the average consumer who pays the lowest possible price for everything and seeks the maximum short term return on their investments (and remember most people have a significant investment in 'capitalism' via their super), and assumes that their individual activities have no long term effect.

This flows to tax and regulation practices that discourage anything long term, and penalise risk taking by not allowing anyone to receive high profits for high risk. It also flows to elections being decided by people voting based on what they perceive as "what policy will give the best outcome for me in the short term". Nearly everyone I have talked to voted in the last election based on what it meant to them and their families personally, without regard to the long term picture. And this is what politicians work to.

John

[DiscoMick]

Interesting ideas.
I did do something to help Aussie manufacturers this week - I ordered seatbox corners from from Wayne at Nugget Stuff.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[trog]

Can't say I have. Been buying Canadian beer in Toronto bars. Not a bad deal either !

[MrLandy]

In a growth capital economy with high wages and living costs, but stagnant wage growth, low interest rates, slowing super returns and where most citizens are just keeping their heads above water, it seems to me that buying Australian products has become not only very difficult to justify, but almost unAustalian.

As costs of housing, utilities, food and services rise in order for the owners of these businesses to cover costs, the majority have little money left to be conscientious consumers of Australian products that cost more than imports.

It's illuminating to realise that in terms of motor vehicles there really is no such thing as a premium brand anymore. When Toyotas cost as much or more than Land Rovers, BMW's, Audi's, VW's, etc. it says a lot about global priorities, relative wealth in Australia and the priorities of a massive continent that can't even keep its own car manufacturing industry afloat.

We are on a greed driven growth capitalist hiding to nothing. We are slow, ponderous, self-centred and totally lacking in vision.

Interesting article comparing Australia to China by Ross Gittens in The Age & SMH today: China thinks big, while Australia waits for luck to strike (http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-difference-between-australia-and-china-is-the-way-we-think-20160802-gqivi4.html)

[cuppabillytea]

Interesting ideas.
I did do something to help Aussie manufacturers this week - I ordered seatbox corners from from Wayne at Nugget Stuff.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

Oops Thanks for reminding me. Sorry Wayne I'll get on to it tonight. :o

[cuppabillytea]

I would not mind betting, that for most Australians, their Charity bills would add up to a significant amount. What if they offset the extra expenditure of buying Australian against their combined Charity bill? Then perhaps we would have less need to be Charitable.

[DiscoMick]

Good thought but we give away 10% of our income so I think I'd rather just buy Aussie.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[MrLandy]

Being charitable takes many forms. In a civil society many of these don't involve money at all.

Being generous to those in need is something we can all do better with here in Australia. We often do better as individuals than as a collective society, but we still operate under an overall ethos of winner take all, which only increases the need for charity rather than diminish it. What it does diminish though is the self-esteem of those in need, firstly because the winners have the power of choice as to who to be charitable towards and secondly because those in need are kept in that place by a society that really struggles with the underlying nature of human equality. Charity is part of the problem.

While it's obviously better than nothing to be charitable, financially it is only a bandaid solution to that which is a much bigger issue caused by the power struggle of growth capitalism. Indeed charity has been used for eons by governments, churches and the wealthy as an instrument of power.

I don't think buying Australian has any relation to charity. But buying ethically, buying quality and buying responsibly is part of the solution. It's a global discussion.

[trog]

As the disposable dollar goes, most is spent on local stuff. I contribute each year the community radio station , and a bit of volunteer work , watch local bands in local venues , when they aren't being shut down, music from shops in country , but maybe imported. Food is generally locally sourced as are the mortgages. I figure not a bad percentage. It is too bad our private media is seemingly all outsourced and biased to whoever provides the feed.

[frantic]

Interesting article on penalties.
The trickle down theory has been proven false, a flow out/up theory would work far better for all business . That is basically an increase in disposable income means more spent at local retail , hospitality and business's resulting in a better outcome for all.
The Flawed Economics of Cutting Penalty Rates - Centre for Future Work (http://www.futurework.org.au/the_flawed_economics_of_cutting_penalty_rates)

The retail sector in Whyalla is being decimated by potential wage cuts. Up to 50% reduction in spending, ouch!
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-08/whyalla-looks-to-nick-xenophon-for-arrium-bailout/7693476

[Mick_Marsh]

Asbestos found in Chinese-made equipment for SA's Port Pirie smelter redevelopment - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-24/port-pirie-smelter-redevelopment-asbestos-scare/7780320)

[DiscoMick]

I don't buy the argument that Australia is too expensive to compete.
I can't see any real reason why Australia can't compete in manufacturing. It just requires a real dedication to constant improvement and making the best quality products which meet actual needs and a drive for continuous improvement.
For example, looking at the Drifta website, the guy Luke started with a love of camping and made some stuff for himself, others got interested, he has kept refining and expanding and now employs 60 people, owns his premises, and is selling everything he can make. His prices are good too.
Why would I buy a camper imported from China when the local products meet the needs?
Another example is Aussieswag in Brisbane. We have one of their earlier campers and, 13 years later, it still does all we wanted, with a few enhancements added over the years.
Wayne from Nuggtetstuff on here is another example of someone seeing a need and making the products which can compete.
I know these are only small examples, but there are many more - Redarc, Jayco etc.
Obviously it's tough competing against cheaper imports, but it can be done. It isn't necessary to send the work overseas and just import. It can be done here.
One thing that is required is an absolute determination to make it work here, and not just chase quick profits by offshoring and importing. Look at South Korea as an example of a country which was devastated by war, started with virtually nothing and by sheer grit and hard work has built up a highly successful economy. Obviously it would have been easier to have just imported, but they stuck to their guns and have been successful. Another example is Thailand, which has become the 'Detroit of Asia' by targeting the market niches it wanted to dominate while taking an unashamedly hard-nosed attitude and preventing its home market from being swamped with cheap imports.
There was a time when Australia's leaders were determined to build up the country and they made decisions which supported that happening, but nowdays we seem to be far too short-sighted. We are quite capable of building competitive railway carriages here, but it requires a real commitment to do it. We could have a vehicle-building industry if it was locally-controlled and built the vehicles people want to buy.
There are other countries which have higher costs than we do, but are very successful e.g. Germany, the UK and Switzerland. It can be done.


Drifta Camping & 4WD (http://www.drifta.com.au/)
Aussie Swag | Premium Off Road Camper Trailers | Brisbane (http://www.aussieswag.com.au/)
nugget stuff home (http://www.nuggetstuff.com/)
https://www.redarc.com.au/
http://www.jayco.com.au/

[loneranger]

Asbestos found in Chinese-made equipment for SA's Port Pirie smelter redevelopment - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-24/port-pirie-smelter-redevelopment-asbestos-scare/7780320)
Just had the same thing in the new children's hospital here in Perth. Asbestos in the roof panels.

[Mick_Marsh]

Just had the same thing in the new children's hospital here in Perth. Asbestos in the roof panels.
Yep.

Post 99 of this thread.

[loneranger]

Yep.

Post 99 of this thread.
Couldn't be bothered reading the whole thread on my phone. 😉

[Pickles2]

..
I don't buy the argument that Australia is too expensive to compete.
I can't see any real reason why Australia can't compete in manufacturing. It just requires a real dedication to constant improvement and making the best quality products which meet actual needs and a drive for continuous improvement.
For example, looking at the Drifta website, the guy Luke started with a love of camping and made some stuff for himself, others got interested, he has kept refining and expanding and now employs 60 people, owns his premises, and is selling everything he can make. His prices are good too.
Why would I buy a camper imported from China when the local products meet the needs?
Another example is Aussieswag in Brisbane. We have one of their earlier campers and, 13 years later, it still does all we wanted, with a few enhancements added over the years.
Wayne from Nuggtetstuff on here is another example of someone seeing a need and making the products which can compete.
I know these are only small examples, but there are many more - Redarc, Jayco etc.
Obviously it's tough competing against cheaper imports, but it can be done. It isn't necessary to send the work overseas and just import. It can be done here.
One thing that is required is an absolute determination to make it work here, and not just chase quick profits by offshoring and importing. Look at South Korea as an example of a country which was devastated by war, started with virtually nothing and by sheer grit and hard work has built up a highly successful economy. Obviously it would have been easier to have just imported, but they stuck to their guns and have been successful. Another example is Thailand, which has become the 'Detroit of Asia' by targeting the market niches it wanted to dominate while taking an unashamedly hard-nosed attitude and preventing its home market from being swamped with cheap imports.
There was a time when Australia's leaders were determined to build up the country and they made decisions which supported that happening, but nowdays we seem to be far too short-sighted. We are quite capable of building competitive railway carriages here, but it requires a real commitment to do it. We could have a vehicle-building industry if it was locally-controlled and built the vehicles people want to buy.
There are other countries which have higher costs than we do, but are very successful e.g. Germany, the UK and Switzerland. It can be done.


Drifta Camping & 4WD (http://www.drifta.com.au/)
Aussie Swag | Premium Off Road Camper Trailers | Brisbane (http://www.aussieswag.com.au/)
nugget stuff home (http://www.nuggetstuff.com/)
https://www.redarc.com.au/
Jayco Australia | That's Freedom (http://www.jayco.com.au/)
You are looking at things through rose coloured glasses mate.
Things are NOT that simple anywhere.
Try making clothes in Aussie,...try competing with Rivers?!! have a look at ANY stuff you buy,....most of it will be made in China,...why is that? There are squillons of products that we all use, every day, that are ALL made overseas. Why is that?...If it's so easy why doesn't someone make em here?
It is NOT easy, & for reasons that I've mentioned many times before,...it will not change.
Frantic & others can put all the "numbers" up they like,....won't make any difference,....if it was true,....why ain't it happening,.....I'll tell you again,....because it ain't that easy....If the majority of Aussies see a good product at a cheaper price, they'll buy it, & if Aussie "manufacturers"can make a product O/S at a cheaper price, that will actually sell the product, that is what they will do.
Of course there are many on here that think they could fix the problem,....they produce "numbers" (and that's all they are,...numbers!)they know better than ALL the Polies, & some very smart business minds, ...yeah right!
I now stand by to be flamed, by those who can,.....in their dreams,....fix everything!!....BUT are these people actually trying to run a manufacturing business themselves, or just telling others how it could work, by telling them the "numbers"?
Pickles.

[cuppabillytea]

Bugger.:o My blow torch is out of gas. :(

[MrLandy]

I think DiscoMick is correct. He's not talking about competing directly with cheap imports. He's talking about Aussie designers/manufacturers making high quality products ...and comparing our situation with other countries in the world where wages are high and they have built their reputations on producing quality products. I agree that's Australia's future, whether in designing, manufacturing, food, science, environment, whatever. And we would be kicking more goals internationally if we had a more visionary and ambitious society, government and attitude across the board.

[AK83]

..... And we would be kicking more goals internationally if we had a more visionary and ambitious society, government and attitude across the board.

visionary government!

:lol2:

I think that's the definitive expression of what a 'contradiction of terms' means!

[cuppabillytea]

visionary government!

:lol2:

I think that's the definitive expression of what a 'contradiction of terms' means!

It's very sad but that seems to ring truer by the day. :(

[loneranger]

From an automotive point of view we could always compare Australia to Britain. They have Rolls-Royce & JLR.

[frantic]

..
You are looking at things through rose coloured glasses mate.
Things are NOT that simple anywhere.
Try making clothes in Aussie,...try competing with Rivers?!! have a look at ANY stuff you buy,....most of it will be made in China,...why is that? There are squillons of products that we all use, every day, that are ALL made overseas. Why is that?...If it's so easy why doesn't someone make em here?
It is NOT easy, & for reasons that I've mentioned many times before,...it will not change.
Frantic & others can put all the "numbers" up they like,....won't make any difference,....if it was true,....why ain't it happening,.....I'll tell you again,....because it ain't that easy....If the majority of Aussies see a good product at a cheaper price, they'll buy it, & if Aussie "manufacturers"can make a product O/S at a cheaper price, that will actually sell the product, that is what they will do.
Of course there are many on here that think they could fix the problem,....they produce "numbers" (and that's all they are,...numbers!)they know better than ALL the Polies, & some very smart business minds, ...yeah right!
I now stand by to be flamed, by those who can,.....in their dreams,....fix everything!!....BUT are these people actually trying to run a manufacturing business themselves, or just telling others how it could work, by telling them the "numbers"?
Pickles.
Unfortunately pickles unlike most of this rant numbers don't lie.

Numbers that show we actually make a lot of goods better and cheaper than overseas competition, BUT, the numbers also show far larger foreign govt support for job creation through manufacturing.

Steel, China just wrote of 20 times the debt of our local Arrium on one of its part govt owned steel makers ,along with all the export incentives and the quote"we will cut excess production and stop dumping globally " by their leadership only to increase both production and exports every month since saying that.:twisted:

Numbers that show a car made in the USA gets DOUBLE what our govt "can't afford to give" and that show the largest car maker in Europe, and occasionally globally , is 20% govt owned! Along with all the benefits and protection they get.

You also know that numbers show clothing costs in oz where around 50% labour (another number) whereas Steel or car manufacturing is down to around the 2-10% mark. Being high tech and lower labour costs mean transport design and govt support play a much larger part than wages. When our govt is doing zip compared to say Thailand offering ZERO TAX for 7 years guess where the accountants decide to move production?
But you keep on ignoring the numbers and listen to the latest headline.

[Pickles2]

Frantic,..at least, although we are probably on "opposite sides", at least we can speak to each other rationally.
I reckon the one thing at least that we would have in common, is that we both try to buy Aussie when we can.
Regards, Pickles.

[DiscoMick]

I remember reading a while back that Germany actually was the biggest protector of its car industry once a wjole lot of hidden subsidies were included, such as free land and tax exemptions from all levels of government.
Its not easy but the examples I gave before show it can be done, if we stop being so short-sighted and consider the overall long term benefits.
For example we are very good at research but terrible at turning those discoveries into businesses because we dont give startups enough time to become profitable. We need 10 year planning, not 2-3 years.
An example is the Gonski education plan. A distinguished businessman proposed a long term plan to focus education on the greatest needs, but instead of doing that we only have 4 years agreed to and the rest is up in the air. That's short term planning, but we need long-term planning to be successful.
You can't have an economy based on innovation and advanced products unless you make a long-term commitment to high quality education.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[AK83]

..... but we need long-term planning to be successful.
......

The idea of long term planning from government is wishful thinking!
We have a system of government that is predominantly media focused, and with that comes the inevitable situation where they will only plan for anything up until the next election... ie. every 3 years.
And we have a system where the two major forces in government with supposedly diametrically opposed philosophies, can't really be differentiated(for all intents and purposes), yet their only real mission seems to be to counter any thought process offered by the other party!
And that's it!

The only real way forward is one of two options:
1/. longer terms(I say yay! to less frequent elections).
The other benefits of such a system would be manyfold.
or
2/. continue on with the current system which is evolving into a more European looking parliament system where many smaller parties form coalition blocks and hence governments.

[DiscoMick]

Came across an interesting example of local vs imported yesterday. I was comparing hybrid camper-caravans from MDC and Lifestyle.
Both are 12 feet long and both have an extending rear bed section. Both can have internal shower-toilet if wanted.
The MDC one is imported from China and the Lifestyle one is made at Slacks Creek in Brisbane. Allowing for specs and options, both are in the $44-48,000 bracket.
So, similar campers at similar cost.
Some online research found a number of complaints about the quality of MDC campers from buyers, but plenty of praise for the Lifestyle.
So there's an Aussie product which seems to be excellent quality and is made here for a similar cost, creating more local jobs.
The wife and I were sufficiently impressed to decide to further investigate the Lifestyle vans ahead of our retirement.
Confirms my belief that local businesses can be competitive if there is the will to commit for the long haul.


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[Mick_Marsh]

Asbestos found in second batch of building materials for Queensland Government tower - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-07/more-asbestos-found-in-shipments-of-building-material-from-china/7822136)

[bob10]

Just my two bob's worth. I normally try to buy local, but after E-mailing a large 4WD business,[ Land Rover] regarding buying an Ashcroft ATB LSD , to find out the details of what was needed for a proper job, they did not bother to answer my E-mail. Now, the job is time critical. We are going away in October, so, after no news from the Aus. mob, I contacted the Ashcroft mob. Paid for the diff on the 4/09/2016, received same today. Even after postage, cheaper than buying here. If the local business can't be bothered, I can't be bothered dealing with them. Guess where I will be buying the HD CV's and half shafts?

[frantic]

Dumped steel creates dramas | Illawarra Mercury (http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/4156200/dumped-steel-creates-dramas/)
As usual certain reports surface a few months late.
Basically no level playing field when other govts discount and support their manufacturing sector with a main aim of bankrupting other countries heavy manufacturing sectors that require generations to build and decades of commitment to maintain,let alone expand.
They realise that western governments and companies operate in 1-3 year election and profit cycles so if our govt/corporate leaders can show a profit for 2-3 years by shutting local production down, the eventual massive price increase for the imports and Job losses will show up as a problem for their replacement in 4-10 years.
Once a blast furnace is "blown in" after being constructed or relined it has a continual operating life of 20-25 years, 365 days 24 hrs non stop. Even on "down days" they are still burning coke and melting ore.

[Rob Hse]

You are on the money!....for those of you that don't know ,our car industry has less government assistance than any other vehicle manufacturing nation in the world ,no tariff protection to speak of ,and more overseas brands available in Australia than most other markets ,and its NOT a matter of lazy overpaid workers , GM Korea auto industry workers wages are in fact a couple of dollars an hour higher than GM H wages ...I would love to see the people that think car assembly line workers are lazy do the same task every 70 to 80 seconds ( eg fitting a seat ,a door or a transmission ) for 8 hours a day and see how long the can last !...The fact is that our government is simply not interested in the future of manufacturing anything here ,it is more interested in crawling to China's wants and needs ,and signing a free trade agreement with them that makes business easy for China ( who's products are cheaper to buy here than in Shanghai ,thanks to Chinese government assistance ),that is of little or no benefit to Australia in the long run ..and by the way GMH had signed a partnership agreement of co investment with the previous government ,to see manufacturing though to 2022..for every $1 our government put in GM would put in $2 ,and the government would see dividends for the life of the agreement. ( not exactly a handout as the media led people to believe).... Oh and how do I know all this ??....It just so happens that I worked at GM Holden's assembly plant in Elizabeth S.A. from 2003 to end of 2012 when I reluctantly took a voluntary redundancy package ,which was paid for by General Motors in USA !.......It's about time people new the truth ,and not the rubbish that the media and the government tell us ...

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[Tombie]

The agreement you speak of became nullified when GM USA and the GFC changed the playing field.

To survive GM USA announced it would bring manufacturing "home" to the USA to protect domestic jobs... this included a loan from the US treasury..

GM had NO intention of keeping Australian manufacturing of its vehicles, hence global platforms etc...

Not to mention in Australia manufacturers continued to sell vehicles which were no longer the primary choice of consumers. No point making what the public wasn't buying...

Sorry you had to leave your career and I hope you found something since then.

However, don't confuse manual labour with skilled labour - having been highly involved with Mitsubishi Engjneers and production staff it's hardly rocket science.
It's manual, repetitive and tiring..

The GFC was the nail in the coffin, as US held companies struggled to survive and made decisions that globally impacted local production.

[Rob Hse]

I regularly tell people to buy parts from O/S instead of here,I do it for good reason,an example is my heater matrix,$52 Aus from the UK,5 day delivery time,from an Oz supplier,$405 with a 5 day delivery time,now you tell me why should I buy from an Oz company and pay them $353 to order a part from O/S when it took me 3 minutes to do myself?.I also look at the vehicle industry,Ford and Holden went bust because they cannot compete with cheap imports,thats the general consensus anyway,well why can't they compete when they only spend about $150 on R/D,most of that is working out how to fit a crate motor into what ever heap of **** they were making at the time when Land Rover can make the most advanced 4wd vehicles on the road,all made in the UK with HIGHER costs than we have because of the strength of the pound and not only survive but thrive,selling the highest number of the most advanced vehicles you will find anywhere over the last couple of years?.Australian companys have gone bust because they sell a rubbish product or a product they want to sell instead of a product the customer wants to buy for and inflated price with the WORST absolute WORST customer service you will find anywhere. Pat

Pat where did you get the idea of $150 R&D from ?......Holden spent $1Billion dollars bringing the VE commodore to market...$500 million to design the vehicle from the ground up and $500 million on assembly plant modernization... It was the biggest project ever undertaken by any automotive manufacturer in Australia!

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[Rob Hse]

The agreement you speak of became nullified when GM USA and the GFC changed the playing field.

To survive GM USA announced it would bring manufacturing "home" to the USA to protect domestic jobs... this included a loan from the US treasury..

GM had NO intention of keeping Australian manufacturing of its vehicles, hence global platforms etc...

Not to mention in Australia manufacturers continued to sell vehicles which were no longer the primary choice of consumers. No point making what the public wasn't buying...

Sorry you had to leave your career and I hope you found something since then.

However, don't confuse manual labour with skilled labour - having been highly involved with Mitsubishi Engjneers and production staff it's hardly rocket science.
It's manual, repetitive and tiring..

The GFC was the nail in the coffin, as US held companies struggled to survive and made decisions that globally impacted local production.

That's actually not true Tombie the deal was all systems go until our current government decided not to honor it ,the agreement was most definitely still in place after GM went into bankruptcy in the US ,and even more interesting was the fact that only two GM facilities outside USA were making a profit at the time of the GFC ,one was Shanghai GM and the other was GMH !

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[Rob Hse]

The agreement you speak of became nullified when GM USA and the GFC changed the playing field.

To survive GM USA announced it would bring manufacturing "home" to the USA to protect domestic jobs... this included a loan from the US treasury..

GM had NO intention of keeping Australian manufacturing of its vehicles, hence global platforms etc...

Not to mention in Australia manufacturers continued to sell vehicles which were no longer the primary choice of consumers. No point making what the public wasn't buying...

Sorry you had to leave your career and I hope you found something since then.

However, don't confuse manual labour with skilled labour - having been highly involved with Mitsubishi Engjneers and production staff it's hardly rocket science.
It's manual, repetitive and tiring..

The GFC was the nail in the coffin, as US held companies struggled to survive and made decisions that globally impacted local production.

Tombie ,firstly thank you for the nice wishes I did find re employment ,I went back to my trade as a Linesman ( overhead power ) ,and I do agree that a lot of manufacturing / assembly tasks are manual rather unskilled labour ,however its a sad and sobering fact that industries are disappearing all over our country and how sad it is for the likes of highly trained engineering staff that have little prospect of ongoing employment here .

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[MrLandy]

We live in very shortsighted times. Political and fiscal expediency outweighs human innovation, knowledge and decency everywhere we turn.

Vehicle manufacturing represents far more than jobs. Production is identity. Consumption is veneer. We are at grave risk of becoming a vacuously expensive society entirely reliant on imports.

[frantic]

Unfortunately what gmh, ford and toymota needed was a true levelling of the field , one where we gave the same incentives on exports as Germany , Korea USA and China.
The numbers don't sell locally is only justified if you eliminate exports which is what our govts did.
If you look at numbers sold locally, ( domestic country of production)there would be nothing made by bmw except the 1 and maybe 3 series, Merc would only make c class's and maybe A , VW wouldn't make the toerag ,Passat or anything larger than a golf.
There would be no JLR in the uk at all, except for maybe evoke, but without exports JLR would have been dead long long ago.
The same thing is happening to a lot of large manufacturers here as other countries realise opening and developing heavy industry lifts their people's income ,education and health. Also supplying more income to the govt itself;)
We seem to have forgoten that.:(

[donh54]

..... We are at grave risk of becoming a vacuously expensive society entirely reliant on imports.

Looking around, I think we are there already :eek: :eek:

[DiscoMick]

We're even buying our Army uniforms from China. Seriously?
Talk about short-sightedly abandoning our own economy to save a few bucks. What will happen if we ever have to fight the Chinese?
New Army dress uniforms being made in China to achieve 'best value for money' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-12/xenophon-slams-decision-new-army-uniforms-made-in-china/7834566)

[DiscoMick]

Good on the people behind Patriot Campers for deciding to keep manufacturing in Australia as they expand into the US market.


Third generation manufacturing shows Australia still in the game (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/small-business/resources/third-generation-manufacturing-shows-australia-still-in-the-game-20160907-grakd3.html)

[cuppabillytea]

We're even buying our Army uniforms from China. Seriously?
Talk about short-sightedly abandoning our own economy to save a few bucks. What will happen if we ever have to fight the Chinese?
New Army dress uniforms being made in China to achieve 'best value for money' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-12/xenophon-slams-decision-new-army-uniforms-made-in-china/7834566)

It's quite simple Mick. We simply ask which ships of the invading fleet are carrying our supplies and try not to sink them.
Seriously though: It really is short sighted, dismissive of history and just plain foolhardy not to ensure that we have a broad ability to manufacture, supply our own energy and keep a comprehensive skills base ticking over.

[MrLandy]

Looking around, I think we are there already :eek: :eek:

Yup

[MrLandy]

We're even buying our Army uniforms from China. Seriously?
Talk about short-sightedly abandoning our own economy to save a few bucks. What will happen if we ever have to fight the Chinese?
New Army dress uniforms being made in China to achieve 'best value for money' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-12/xenophon-slams-decision-new-army-uniforms-made-in-china/7834566)

Yup

[MrLandy]

It's quite simple Mick. We simply ask which ships of the invading fleet are carrying our supplies and try not to sink them.
Seriously though: It really is short sighted, dismissive of history and just plain foolhardy not to ensure that we have a broad ability to manufacture, supply our own energy and keep a comprehensive skills base ticking over.

👍😳⛈

[DiscoMick]

We never will have the ability to make our own stuff if we don't give orders to local suppliers.

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[bob10]

We never will have the ability to make our own stuff if we don't give orders to local suppliers.

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Agree, which is why I changed my mind, and are buying Maxi-drive axles from MR Auto. to go with the Ashcroft ATB LSD. I have also taken advice from MR Auto, and keeping my current CV'S. If only the Southern company had contacted me, they would have my money also.

[MrLandy]

We live in a global world and if local suppliers don't supply in a timely manner at reasonable prices and/or superior quality they won't survive.

[DiscoMick]

Just spent $2k today on a flash Westinghouse stove made in Adelaide rather than a German rival made in Poland so we're doing our bit. Fanciest stove I've ever owned, but competitive price to imports and bought a 5 year warranty too.

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[Tombie]

And then we can enjoy global wages.
And Global living conditions. [emoji41]

[MrLandy]

Just spent $2k today on a flash Westinghouse stove made in Adelaide rather than a German rival made in Poland so we're doing our bit. Fanciest stove I've ever owned, but competitive price to imports and bought a 5 year warranty too.

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Well done Mick...that's a good story. I've got a Westinghouse fridge for same reason and excellent quality / competitive price..

...what are you going to cook first?

[scarry]

Well done Mick...that's a good story. I've got a Westinghouse fridge for same reason and excellent quality / competitive price..

...what are you going to cook first?

not any more:(

Last Australian-made fridge is end of the line for regional manufacturer - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-11/last-australian-made-fridge-is-end-of-the-line-for-manufacturer/7316682)

For us,buying Aussie made is usually the first option,if possible.We have a Westinghouse as well.

But for work,if i use Aussie gear,winning a job is very difficult.In fact most of our parts and equipment are not made here, anymore.

Business is business,you have to survive.

Sad,but that is the way it is.

[MrLandy]

Thanks for link...Now it's a sad story! My Westinhouse fridge is quite a few years old. But assume yours is new Mick. I also have a newer Electrolux made in Australia in same factory two years before it closed in April this year.

[JDNSW]

I have an Australian made fridge - this one has given no trouble, but it is a replacement (at a reduced price) after years of problems with the original (same model) which were never fixed other than temporarily under warranty. According to the local repairer who did the warranty work, the problems were due to 'foreign material' in the refrigerant, that got there during manufacture and can never be completely removed.

John

[DiscoMick]

Thanks for link...Now it's a sad story! My Westinhouse fridge is quite a few years old. But assume yours is new Mick. I also have a newer Electrolux made in Australia in same factory two years before it closed in April this year.

We bought a stove. Our fridge is also old and will need replacing.
After that the old TV will have to go. I keep joking we may have the oldest TV in Brisbane. Does any Aussie company still make TVs?

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[JDNSW]

..... Does any Aussie company still make TVs?

...

I don't think so - the Australian electronics industry was pretty much shut down under Hawke/Keating, if my memory is correct.

John

[Mick_Marsh]

And to think AWA TVs were considered the best in the world at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgamated_Wireless_(Australasia)

[scarry]

And to think AWA TVs were considered the best in the world at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgamated_Wireless_(Australasia)

As were the Kelvinator refrigerators and their commercial sealed units and open drive compressors.They couldn't justify retooling the plant at the time for compressor manufacturing.They also made many parts for Holden.
They knew in the 80's the end was coming to manufacturing here.

As did Kirby refrigeration,they relocated their manufacturing overseas in the late 80's as well.It went to Thailand,and is still their today.

As for Westinghouse refrigerators,many of the smaller models have been made overseas for years,some re badged LG brand.

It was only a few of the larger models that were made here up until recently.

[nismine01]

I have not gone through all the pages on this thread but I drove through Whyalla (hi Tombie) yesterday and saw all the rail wagons there, that's when I remembered they all came from China.:twisted:

Whyalla steel works looking for Government support but they buy Chinese????????????:censored:

Makes you wonder doesn't it.:confused:

If they bought Australian it would be a start.:D

That's what I think!:cool:

Regards

Mike

[donh54]

I don't think so - the Australian electronics industry was pretty much shut down under Hawke/Keating, if my memory is correct.

John

Hmmm. About the starting point of the "level playing field" wasn't it? :censored:

[MrLandy]

We bought a stove. Our fridge is also old and will need replacing.
After that the old TV will have to go. I keep joking we may have the oldest TV in Brisbane. Does any Aussie company still make TVs?

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My bad, are the stoves still made in oz? ...And a new TV Mick! My Sony is definately a guilty pleasure! 😄

...difficult to buy oz if nothing is made here!

[DiscoMick]

My bad, are the stoves still made in oz? ...And a new TV Mick! My Sony is definately a guilty pleasure! 😄

...difficult to buy oz if nothing is made here!

The bloke at The Good Guys said the stove we bought was made in South Australia.

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[donh54]

I have not gone through all the pages on this thread but I drove through Whyalla (hi Tombie) yesterday and saw all the rail wagons there, that's when I remembered they all came from China.:twisted:

Whyalla steel works looking for Government support but they buy Chinese????????????:censored:

Makes you wonder doesn't it.:confused:

If they bought Australian it would be a start.:D

That's what I think!:cool:

Regards

Mike

Sadly, under the terms of most free trade agreements we have signed, a country cannot give preferred supplier status to its own local industries. :mad: :confused:

[DiscoMick]

And a country can be sued by a multinational if it trues to protect local industries against foreign competition. The American business lobby insisted on this to protect its ability to intimidate weaker governments and exploit their national resources without having to pay fair taxes to governments.

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[Tombie]

I have not gone through all the pages on this thread but I drove through Whyalla (hi Tombie) yesterday and saw all the rail wagons there, that's when I remembered they all came from China.:twisted:



Whyalla steel works looking for Government support but they buy Chinese????????????:censored:



Makes you wonder doesn't it.:confused:



If they bought Australian it would be a start.:D



That's what I think!:cool:



Regards



Mike



G'day!! [emoji12]

Yes they were leased from a Chinese mob.
We paid the price for that also - almost every rail pair had to be replaced as they were suffering voids in the wheels during the run north and back - took months to rectify.

Now they're just a testament to times past... they move about 200 Mtrs a month and that's about it. [emoji15]

The irony is you can not ship raw material to a manufacturer and then complain when the same buyer becomes a seller..... (where's that cake?)

[MrLandy]

When our government doesn't even enforce proper payment of taxes by multinationals trading on our shores, we've got buckly's of them properly backing local enterprise. Those lost taxes could fund a significant local innovation to market program. ...no doubt a simplistic reading of the situation, but you get my drift.

[Tombie]

Ah yes. And how many millions are lost each year through private import sub-$1k...

The money goes overseas, buyers get the goods and Australia sees nothing for it but their currency heading overseas in the blink of a Paypal swipe..

I'm as guilty as the next guy...

[Mick_Marsh]

Asbestos customs crackdown worries brokers about 'overabundance of caution and delays' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-19/asbestos-customs-changes-worry-brokers-signing-off-on-products/7858642)

[frantic]

Ah yes. And how many millions are lost each year through private import sub-$1k...

The money goes overseas, buyers get the goods and Australia sees nothing for it but their currency heading overseas in the blink of a Paypal swipe..

I'm as guilty as the next guy...

The big difference I'd say is you, and me;), along with a vast majority of the sub $1k import purchasers have paid Income tax, and that ranges from to over 40%.
It would solve a majority of our budget problems if multinationals paid about 1/2 the highest personal income tax rate on their profits and then sent the rest to HQ!

[Tombie]

Asbestos found in Chinese-made equipment for SA's Port Pirie smelter redevelopment - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-24/port-pirie-smelter-redevelopment-asbestos-scare/7780320)



Apparently it's a lot more than they're letting on.

[DiscoMick]

So here is $2k of good Aussie engineering being installed - our new Westinghouse gas-electric cooker, made in Adelaide apparently. Its certainly the best cooker we've ever owned by far. I look forward to eating many delicious meals cooked on it.

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[Berger]

The problem with our now ****ed up country is us the citizens. The people who think they can buy cheap asian crap without it affecting us. We earn great money in Australia yet most people are too greedy to support our way of life and continue to buy **** from developing countries with poor wages and conditions. The way to support our way of life is buy australian made even if it costs a bit more and buy from counties who have living standards and conditions similsr to ours.
If we don't start supporting our own living standards they will go, we will be f#$@ed.

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[ramblingboy42]

we'll be doomed!

[Mick_Marsh]

SAI Global agrees to $1b takeover bid from Hong Kong private equity firm - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-26/sai-global-takeover-bid-hong-kong-private-equity-firm/7877246)

[ramblingboy42]

take a look at the thread I posted in flight.

some people obviously believe Australia is a good place to set up business.